Under The Lake

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  • #43967
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Under The Lake

    From the pen of Toby Whithouse, writer of ‘School Reunion’, ‘Vampires of Venice’, ‘A Town Called Mercy’ and ‘The God Complex’ (thank you @pedant for the reminder).

    This is another two parter – yay for cliffhangers! And it’s chilling in a horror kind of way and mysterious in a detective story kind of way. And it’s that old classic, a base under seige.

    When an underwater base comes under attack, the Doctor and Clara must save the frightened crew and defeat an impossible threat. But what is behind the terrifying events? And are they really haunted by ghosts?

    #43978
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Okay, so last story we had a cliffhanger with Clara, Missy and the TARDIS dead, and this week we end up with the Doctor dead.

    My wild guess is that the Doctor isn’t actually dead … but there’s definitely an ‘apparently dead but not really’ theme developing here.

    Otherwise, lovely ‘base under siege’ stuff. It had me reverting to watching halfway through the door near the end.

    #43981
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    I really enjoyed this – love a two-parter. The classic ingredients – an enclosed ship, a crew in danger, running, corridors, being chased, a clock ticking, a dodgy corporation… were assembled to create genuine suspense.

    The Doctor’s cue cards were a nice touch, as was his clockwork squirrel. But “the cards” were also a link to the Tarot card theme ongoing – the dark, the sword, the temple, the forgotten…

    A sword under a lake immediately made me think of Arthurian legend, and the Lady of the Lake. The Doctor as Merlin (the Magician) and Clara as Nimue (who was Merlin’s apprentice of course) gave me pause – I hope she doesn’t betray him somewhere down the line…

    So could it be the Doctor’s own body in the tomb?

    #43982
    Feanor @feanor

    Had actually hoped the screwdriver would be back this episode… not a big fan of the glasses.

    On the other hand, really stoked for the next episode. I think that the ghosts are some kind of projections created by something from the spaceship.

    Also loved the base under siege, love it how they manage to give a new original spin to it again and again

    @juniperfish interesting theory, my initial guess was the moldy guy, but i think you are right, at least after the doctor travelled back

    #43983
    Ludwig @ludwig

    Loved it! Hadn’t realised that it was another two parter, and I did not see that cliff hanger coming!

    The humour (cards, clockwork squirell, clever by osmosis) was good. Thought the swipe at Peter Andre was unfair though!

    #43984
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    Running with the tarot theme:

    Death – the card is also one of resurrection (regeneration?)

    The ace of swords – the power of the intellect (very Doctor).

    On an aside, my one bum note for the episode was, yet another, blushing fan-girl representation. I didn’t appreciate it in Osgood’s characterisation and I don’t appreciate it here either. Why do male writers feel the need to perpetually regurgitate this image of fandom as simpering female idiocy for laughs? The same writers are all fanboys themselves – laugh at that and suck it!

    #43985
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @feanor

    Yes, ‘projections’ would certainly explain how we could have a Doctor-ghost without the Doctor genuinely dying.

    @juniperfish – what I think they may be harking back to is a purely Whovian reference. Battlefield, where the ‘Lady in the Lake’ was Ace. ‘Merlin’ was quite specifically referenced as the Doctor – this was the Cartmel Masterplan era, as @denvaldron explained so brilliantly.

    We’ve got the underwater spaceship, the sword reference, the UNIT connection, a deaf character instead of a blind one, the base filling with water and trapping the Companion and the nuclear engine (which, I strongly suspect, has been supplied by Chekhov’s Nuclear Reactors, Ltd.) ūüôā

    #43986
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @juniperfish

    And, of course, the Ace of Swords. I didn’t spot that one; the Battlefield references are definitely all over the place.

    #43987
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Just how different does this series feel to newer viewers I wonder? The pacing feels significantly different to recent series, doesn’t it?

    I thought this was really intriguing as a setup. Obviously a lot of callbacks to the base under siege style of the BG period. And Quatermass, of course. If you are going to rob, go for the biggies.

    All for the good, and I can’t help but admit I have a growing soft spot for Toby Whitehouse as a writer. It solidified with God Complex, which helped put a lot of his earlier work in context.

    Some random thoughts:

    Clara appears to have come dressed for the seventies? It looks a lot like her ensemble for the Pertwee Claricle. Not sure of any significance but apparently the designers put a lot of thought into her wardrobe.

    I thought it may have been a directorial thing in the first two partner, but this continues a focus on reflections in eyes. The eyes are a mirror to the soul. The Doctor gets a taste for hugging (a great way of hiding the face) and suddenly starts wearing shades to hide his eyes? Hmmmmm….

    I’m struggling to remember that many portrayals of deaf people in drama. The last one was probably Ken Stott’s girlfriend in Messiah (played by Michelle Forbes) or Joey Lucas in West Wing. Nice to see a good focus on that in the episode.

    #43988
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    @bluesqueakpip

    Never saw “Battlefield” – just read the synopsis. Hmmn, a reference to that for fans, perhaps, but given that we’ve had an episode titled “The Magician’s Apprentice”, another titled “The Witch’s Familiar” and now a sword under a lake reference which links the Doctor with Merlin (as he’s already been titled “Magician”) I like to hope something arc-y is going on.

    #43989
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    @phaseshift

    I wondered whether the deaf captain was also an audience clue – i.e. – don’t just listen to what people are saying (which may misdirect) – watch what they are doing.

    Is Clara somehow “the enemy inside a friend”?

    #43990
    DoctorDoctorWho @doctordoctorwho

    Good to see the TARDIS interior again, we haven’t seen it since Last Christmas!

    #43991
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @juniperfish

    If they are having a ‘Merlin’ arc, a Battlefield reference is absolutely essential. The Doctor is very specifically equated with Merlin in that story, to the extent that he admits to Ace that a future or alternate version of himself may well be Merlin.

    Sadly, at this point, Doctor Who was being watched by about two fans and their pet Dalek*, so it’s not terribly surprising that you haven’t seen it. Or that they didn’t reference it more specifically, but just included some fan-spottable references.

    *Well, about 3.1 million viewers. But I think most of them were Zygons.

    #43992
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @juniperfish

    Good calls on the Tarot!

    On the deaf character, while it is early days into the series, I’ve noticed a couple of lines that play into synesthesia, that blurring of the senses. Missy had that line about artificial gravity ‘tasting coppery’. The skewed senses of the Daleks being transmuted into weaponry.

    It will be interesting to see if this is ‘a thing’ going forward.

    #43993
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip

    Doctor Who was being watched by about two fans and their pet Dalek*

    That would be me, you and Rusty then? Simpler times.

    #43994
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    @bluesqueakpip

    A Merlin arc would be wonderful – and it occurs to me that Missy as Nimue, with Clara as her unwitting pawn, is a better fit than Clara herself.

    We explicitly see that Missy is in some ways the Doctor’s “apprentice” in The Magician’s Apprentice – Clara points out that Missy got her vortex-manipulator triggered by enemy fire idea from the Doctor.

    Plus, looking back on the previous season, Missy refers to the Doctor as her “boyfriend” (not to his face, but to the mechanoid dude in the second episode, as she collects him for her “heaven”).

    A big Missy betrayal down the line then…

    #43995
    DoctorDoctorWho @doctordoctorwho

    Gonna be honest this episode wasn’t quite what I was expecting, I think it’s just that the pacing is different to recent series so I need to adjust.

     

    Looking forward to next week though! The time travel aspect should be interesting.

    #43996
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Oh, yeah, the big, huge, carefully shown painting in the base of the ship and the monster?

    It’s an illustration from the Voyage of the Dawn Treader, part of C.S. Lewis’ Chronicles of Narnia.

    Cue the Doctor as Aslan, Missy as the various evil witches, and Clara as one of the kids?

    #43998
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    And on a second watch – that’s why Lunn doesn’t get killed by the Pritchard ghost. He’s never been inside the spacecraft, so never got implanted with the ‘earworm’.

    It’ll be interesting to see if Cass is similarly immune – because they’re playing her as no spoken language at all – or if she’s in danger, and will sign the message.

    #43999
    DoctorDoctorWho @doctordoctorwho

    I think I better re-watch, some of you are mentioning things I haven’t even picked up on, such as the earworm.

    #44000
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    @bluesqueakpip

    I like the Narina link _ Clark seduced by the space equivalent of Turkish delight? Could be that Missy offers to restore Danny Pink to her…

    I thought the Doctor’s turn of phrase – that he wanted to “kiss it to death” – it being something both evil and ingenious was interesting – perhaps that’s how he feels about Missy sometimes!

    #44001
    Serahni @serahni

    @ludwig ¬†As an Australian, I don’t think any swipe at Peter Andre is harsh enough. ¬†lol. ¬†Especially not in regards to that song, which was bad enough the first time around, let alone being rereleased!

    @bluesqueakpip ¬†Whilst I would love to think they included a hearing impaired character just as ¬†a character, I think it is likely to be a plot device at some point. ¬†Whether or not that has been used up already by her ability to lip read, I’m not sure.

    I really enjoyed this. ¬†I didn’t realise it was a two-parter, so my reaction at the end was very ‘HOW DARE YOU’ but in a good way. lol ¬†No bonkers theories yet, time to rewatch it.

    #44002
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @serahni

    Purely from a logistical point of view, they’ve not only cast Sophie Stone, they’ve also had to cast another actor, Zaqi Ismail, specifically to play the role of her translator. And yes, Toby Whithouse has woven Lunn in beautifully – but that’s still two actors to pay.

    Then they had to explain why the Doctor, who speaks all languages, suddenly can’t speak BSL.

    So I suspect Cass being profoundly deaf is very important to either the plot, or the ongoing series arc. At the moment, my guess is that she’s the one person who can’t be a transmitter.

    But it certainly ties into the series arc: remember last week when we found out that Daleks literally cannot express what they want to say?

    #44003
    Serahni @serahni

    @bluesqueakpip ¬† Oh, I’m not critical of them for it. ¬†Far better the opportunity exist at all, and the pair of them are fantastic. ¬†And it ties well to a swelling theme, as you mention. ¬†I was more-or-less just generalising about the lack of roles for perceived minorities that place their condition/impairment/nationality/sexuality/species hehe as secondary to their involvement in the plot. ¬†And I’m not even necessarily berating the industry for it, it’s more an observation. ¬†At least, in this episode, her impairment seems linked to the events that unfold and don’t seem related to the position she holds. ¬†She doesn’t seem to have been set up as having been employed BECAUSE she’s deaf, right? ¬†That’s always nice to see, especially when we are flooded with excessive “this is a remarkable story about a remarkable woman who, despite being overweight and frumpy, finally got her big break and the guy all in the same week.” ¬†lol

    #44004
    DoctorDoctorWho @doctordoctorwho

    After a re-watch, I definitely appreciate this episode a lot more.

    #44005
    Anonymous @

    @doctordoctorwho

    Rather naughtily, I’ve scanned some of the comments -which haven’t given much away (yet!) and I’m thinking (having seen one or two¬†of the later Harry Potter films which were so slow) that the sword under the lake is also significant to Who, at the moment-¬† whilst it’s present in the Arthurian legends (and even in Game of Thrones -boy, do, I eer, ‘know’ my literature!) the sword under the lake,¬†or in a well,¬†resonates in Romanian, Czech/Slovak, German¬†and Hungarian legends and fiction.

    Interesting!

    @bluesqueakpip: so British Sign Language (I thought we weren’t doing acronyms!) is like ASL? I studied it for about a year (a good 19 years ago) when I ended up at a school finishing¬†post-grad and assisting hearing impaired students with music ‘¬†therapy’ -some students had experienced traumatic hearing loss and this particular school was one of the first to work with these students in a one-on-one capacity. Their ability to read body signals and even fragrance and scent was incredibly interesting.

    Our watch of Who is at 7.30 this evening, so till then I will do my best to ignore all these wonderful debates!

    Kindest,

    puro

     

    #44006
    Anonymous @

    other people including @kharis mentioned the importance of tarot to these episodes. I shall have to do some major tarot investigation! Or perhaps a Blog could be written -simplifying the whole matter (!)

    <<*\*>>

    #44007
    lisa @lisa

    Reminded me a bit of the episode ‘The God Complex’ in a way. In that in both stories
    something is picking people off and turning them for some use as a means to and end.
    Also, in both these episodes we have a group trapped, (this time in an under water mining
    facility) and there is the maze of corridors. Clara seems to be having a really
    good time! Even anxious to pop out of the Tardis and get in the midst of the action.

    Read the comments and realize I’ve missed some details so will need to follow closer
    on a re watch.

    #44008
    nerys @nerys

    How wonderfully thrilling this was! A scary, standalone ghost story … except that it wasn’t standalone, LOL! We have to wait till next week to see how it finishes. Argh! I agree with @serahni that the hearing-impaired character will be create some sort of resolution for this dilemma. It’s practically telegraphed to us. But, even knowing that, I’m excited to see how she will resolve it.

    #44009
    lisa @lisa

    Feels like danger seeking Clara might partly be an effect of Dalek nano genes? So
    either she is going to get hurt or the Doctor will leave her because of her recklessness
    or maybe both? But I still don’t think she will be killed off. I rather think it will be
    left in some other way.
    I agree with those that think the hearing impairment is a ‘thing’ to this story.

    #44010
    bendubz11 @bendubz11

    Great episode, loved the cliffhanger.

    @bluesqueakpip i knew someone else would pick up on the reason Lunn wasn’t killed, especially since they always pause for a little bit to analysis their prey before killing, must be them checking to see whether the chant is in the mind yet.

    When I heard the chant I thought of one thing immediately. It isn’t necessarily, Dark. Sword. What if it’s Darksword?¬†One of my favourite series of books is The Secrets of the Immortal: Nicholas Flamel series, and it contains the 4 swords of power: Durendal, Joyeuse, Excalibur, and though it is more commonly known as the Coward’s blade, Clarent is sometimes also referred to as the Darksword. Not only that but Clarent sounds alarmingly similar to Clara, and being the blade to have slain Arthur, is inextricably linked to Arthurian legend.

    #44011
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    @bluesqueakpip The Tardis felt great danger, enough so that the Cloister Bell was rung, yet it took the Doctor and Clara there anyway. So I am wondering if this is for Clara’s sake. Perhaps the Tardis is hoping the radiation from the nuclear reactor will help cure Clara of some of the effects of the Dalek nanogenes.

    If this is peak Clara, she is simply too reckless. Now I have an appreciation for some of the earlier companions who were horrified enough by the slaughter of some arcs to at least wish to stop traveling in the Tardis for a bit, say Teegan. This cannot end well for a companion to simply with to travel with the Doctor forever. Look what happened to Donna.

    #44012
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    I have speculated that just as Dr Who has mined ancient astronaut theory in the past such as the Fourth Doctor’s arc Pyramid of Mars, so must it continue to do so in the present, especially since there are more and more ancient astronaut programs on the so-called History channels.

    Orion is said in ancient astronaut lore to be, well, lots of things such as maybe their origin or having a stargate. See for example Ancient Aliens: Destination Orion.

    #44013
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    I explain the Doctor’s strange comments about ghosts as being the result of the writing’s earworm that was affecting his consciousness as was clearly shown. Else why would the Doctor forget he has had plenty of ghost-like encounters such as last season’s Mummy on the Orient Express that in the end had some sort of scientific explanation.

    By the way was it ever resolved who created the AI Gus or who phoned the Doctor to take a ride on that space train in the first place?

    #44014
    Missy @missy

    Good grief, just seen this, as you say another cliff hanger! This time not by SM.

    I enjoyed it, especially the cue cards Clara gives him – nice touch that. Also, the reference to meeting Shirley

    Bassey.

    Why was the Tardis upset? Did she know something the Doctor didn’t?

    There was more, but I can’t think of them at the moment.

    Shall watch again tonight.

    Roll on next week.

    Cheers,

    Missy.

    #44015
    Missy @missy

    @juniperfish@bluesqueakpip

    Good point about the tarot. Never thought of Excalibur. Interesting theory.

    Missy

    #44016
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @jphamlore

    the Doctor’s strange comments about ghosts

    They’re not strange: he’s pretty well forced to that explanation. They’re translucent images of dead people which can walk through walls and they only come out at night – what else can you call them? The only question is whether they’re a ‘copy’ like Missy’s digital downloads or the alien has a way of taking the ‘soul’ of the dead person and keeping it a) here and b) under their control.

    If you see it as a deliberate movement away from his Third/Fourth Doctor dogmatism, then it makes sense. The Doctor did indeed think there were no such things as ghosts; he’s becoming less and less sure that he’s right.

    For some reason, in both this and the last series, whether there is some kind of life after death is under discussion. And, for some reason, the Doctor currently wants to find out. The likeliest explanation is that he’s nipped forward to look at Clara’s future (in Listen, maybe) and found out she dies. Right now, he doesn’t know how to save her.

    Or it may be more after-effects of the Time War. Whatever: he badly wants to believe that the people he’s lost aren’t gone, forever – but as a Time Lord, he’s been taught all his life that death is the end.

    Maybe Moffat’s doing the same thing he did with religion in Who – moving us away from that dogmatic scientism: towards a more agnostic/neutral ‘honestly, folks? We really don’t know.’

    #44017
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    @phaseshift – hmm yes – the sonic glasses are suspicious – it does seem as if the doc has adopted them for a purpose – does he suspect that, as Clara¬†was sent his way by Missy he may need to ‘shield his eyes’ from her?

    Of course the sonic will be back _ the glasses are definitely there for some particular reason!

    Shades guard against brightness – the Doc needs to see past the shiny outside, of Clara or ANother?

     

     

    #44018
    Hudsey @hudsey

    I think the Doctor is dead, albeit an induced death to  allow him to enter the ghost state. His body will be in the suspended animation chamber, for Clara to open and save him. Guess that will make him an extra few centuries old?

    #44019
    The Krynoid Man @thekrynoidman

    I really don’t have much to say again this week, other than it was good and much better than what we’ve gotten over the past few years. Unless they make a total turkey, I don’t think I can say much beyond generic “I thought it was good comments”, won’t be much point in posting here if that’s the case.

    So are all the stories going to be 2 parters this year?

    #44020
    Anonymous @

    Squee: “I know that it’s all Bonkers but…”

    Hah!

    Another faraday cage!

    “You’re going to go back in time. How do you do that?

    “Extremely well”

    (Girl Crush: Morven Christie as officer sexy)

    Clara’s turning all doctor-ey: “Run” (normally that’s for the Doctor to say)

    “They’re arming themselves” (again normally the Doctor’s phrase) but this time he says “I thought so too.”

    Also, she really wants the excitement, the adventures which I recall the Doctor wanted in The God Complex and quite a few other episodes such as Old and Young Amy in the Garden (can’t remember the name but…anyway).

    Lastly the Doctor says quite openly: “there’s only room for one me“. Mmm. A puzzle.

    • Lots of call backs/reminders to ’44’ with Martha when the sun eats the people (2007)
    • Silence in the Library where we had a head of a corporation as well-not particularly nice but he stayed alive till the end
    • Satan Pit -floating bodies preceded by “hey you, get back to base” only to see…a dead body
    • As others have said (& as it’s Whithouse), The God Complex

    The Heisenberg Principle at work??
    Brilliant music score this week: powerful and infused with legend.

    Niiice.

     

     

     

     

     

    #44021
    Mudlark @mudlark

    Yet another episode to savour, and I enjoyed the shift in style and pacing.¬† In some respects it was like a more highly polished and streamlined version of a really good BG episode, although I am sure that the ARSE brigade will find something to complain about (I cannot bring myself to read BTL on Dan Martin’s blog).

    What grabbed me initially, following the Star Trek like opening shot with the Captain’s journal voice over, were the echoes of Quatermass and the Pit in the introductory sequence, as noted by @phaseshift.¬† and I found myself all of a sudden channelling my 16 year old self in December 1958, watching episode 2 or 3 and being so unsettled that afterwards I needed someone to come with me when I went down into the cellar to fetch the coke for the kitchen range and boiler.¬† It wasn’t just the obvious¬†parallels – the mysterious vehicle, the Breen-like scepticism of Moran, the markings on the hull and the spooky occurrences after the crew of Drum Base started to investigate; there was the same steady build-up of tension and¬†growing sense of menace.¬†¬† The story quickly began to diverge, of course, and the Doctor is nothing like Professor Quatermass, but the tension was sustained and the cliff-hanger was very effective indeed, beginning with Clara’s horrified reaction and¬†our dawning realisation of what it was she was seeing.

    As for the other characters;¬† I agree with @serahni that Cass’s deafness probably has more relevance to the plot than the obvious fact that a lip reader was needed, and¬†Sophie Stone wonderfully conveyed her air of authority after Moran’s death left her in command.¬†¬†Pritchard, the oil company rep. was meanwhile reminiscent of Beryl Reed’s captain in Earthshock, in his overriding preoccupation with his bonus and the company’s assets.¬† As for Clara, she may have become an adrenalin junkie, eager for new adventure, but I’m not sure that I care for her in this increasingly over-confident and rash mood, and evidently the Doctor doesn’t, either.¬† Now that she has realised, prompted by Missy¬†in The Witch’s Familiar, that the Doctor has survived so many perils because, whatever his predicament, he always starts with the assumption that there is a way out,¬†she has¬†perhaps become too reliant on his ability to keep her safe.¬† Which makes her shocked dismay at the end of the episode all¬†the more telling.

    The ghosts are intriguing.¬† I am inclined to agree with @feanor that they are some kind of projection emanating either from the hull of the alien spaceship or from the pilot’s suspension ‘coffin’ – rather like the ‘ghosts’ in Quatermass.¬† The hologram projection of Clara which lures them into the Faraday cage is perhaps a pointer to that. They are semi-transparent and can pass through walls, but can only appear when the Base is in night mode, so maybe there is something in the day-time lighting which inhibits the projections.¬† I suspect that the individuals in whom the ear worm has been implanted were also reciprocally ‘read’ via the markings on the hull.¬† At least, that is what the reflections in the eyes suggested to me: the eyes simultaneously mirrors of the soul, as @phaseshift said, and windows into it.

    The ghosts are insubstantial, but they can also pick up material objects and wield them as weapons. They cannot, however, carry material objects through walls, which indicates that a separate telekinetic power is being used in conjunction with the projections.

    One final, random thought.  I was struck by the significance of the sword of Orion as a coordinate.  It suggests that whoever or whatever is initiating the signal and whoever or whatever is the intended recipient, a) it/they are from somewhere in the galaxy where the constellation appears much as it does on earth and b) they somehow have the same quirk as human beings in seeing images in the patterns of the stars in the night sky, and have come up with a similar image.  Which leads me to think that they may not be aliens from another part of the galaxy, but earthlings from another time.

     

     

     

     

    #44022
    Anonymous @

    @juniperfish

    Yes, I totally agree: the glasses and the comments about “there’s room for only one me” as well as slightly odd/hyperactive Clara (the one wearing clothes she didn’t wear last year at all -I don’t know if that’s relevant) who seems in wide shots to actually have a wider face (doubtless that’s just a fancy on my part) requires the Doctor to ‘really see’ her.

    Last season in Deep Breath after the phone call following¬†Eleven’ regeneration (or can we say death/passing/moving on?) he admonished Clara to “really see” him.

    Tis the other way ’round now.

    And the Doctor has to be re-seen …again! Who is he now? How must he see her?

    It reminds me a little of The Mummy on the Orient Express -the Doctor almost died in order to stop the counting down…except in this episode he appears to die.

    #44023
    janetteB @janetteb

    Well that was fun. The cliff hanger ending reinforced for me just what had been missing from AGWho. This felt like classic Who, base under siege, slow building tension and that ending!! So hurrah for the shift to two parters.

    A few comments before reading through the posts, which I have been waiting all day to read. Sundays are tough. So many wonderful moments. My S/O was just chuckling over Clara and the cards. That was just lovely. As usual excellent performances all round. Morven Christie looks so different to “that lolloping one” in Lost in Austen. (Which I have just been watching again..) Interesting that by the 22nd century Unit and the Doctor are common knowledge. I certainly wasn’t expecting that response when he waved the psychic paper at them. I feel that Clara is in “over compensate” mode. She is trying to hard to be “jolly”, a mood that is contradicted by her sombre clothing. The brightness that was manifest before now feels forced. The doctor appears to be wincing at her demeanour in the beginning and I don’t blame him.

    Little speculation at this stage only that I am guessing once again that the Doctor goes back in time, cracks the secret of how to generate the ghosts and sends his own “ghost” forward in order to save Clara and the crew.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #44024
    Anonymous @

    Wow. This is Doctor Who at its purest and best. The Doctor and his companion stumble upon a mystery/danger, and the episode centres around solving that threat, like Classic Who, rather than making it background to a character drama. Superb pacing, great mystery, minor characters fleshed out well, Clara & the Doctor’s individual narratives there and interesting but woven in nicely. A near perfect episode, and exactly what I was hoping for this season. Hopefully the resolution is as good!

    #44025
    Mudlark @mudlark

    One afterthought on the eyes as mirrors/windows of the soul.  It is surely significant that the ghosts are eyeless, with black pits where the eyes should be.

    #44026
    Serahni @serahni

    Rewatching it again now. ¬†The whole afterlife theme is definitely strong during Capaldi’s reign so far, my mind keeps drifting to Omega, who is another figure I admittedly have always kind of hoped would put in an appearance again. ¬†Seems like he’s appeared in a lot of audio stories since his television finale, which I didn’t know about! ¬†Of course, his anti-matter reality is another form of afterlife in a sense, which is what made me think of him, and then we had Missy’s little venture. ¬†The Doctor might not have believed in ghosts before but his fellow Timelords sure like to make the most of life after death!

    #44027
    Anonymous @

    so perhaps this has been discussed -but the picture of dragon behind the Doctor –¬†after he unceremoniously puts his finger in the ‘tea’¬† -has 3 people sitting ‘in it’ -one in blue, red and orange, I think? I wonder what that means? The 3 people? So far including the Doctor, three have died….?

    @mudlark lovely analysis  -can you shed light on the dragon with the 3 ppl in it?

    @janetteb I enjoyed it a lot too (not as much as last week’s but that’s me) and yes me too on the lolloping one: as I have a girly thing for Morven -but generally she’s better, erm, ah, as a blonde!

    #44028
    Anonymous @

    “death: the final frontier”

    hehehe.

    OK. I have nothing useful to add. I’m off to lay ma head!

     

    #44029
    janetteB @janetteb

    Have now read the comments. I really need to re watch and see that painting again that @bluesqueakpip pointed out. I had forgotten about that.

    @phaseshift and @mudlark  I did not make the Quatermass connection until reading your posts but realised that was what the seemingly empty spaceship was reminding me of.

    It occurs to me that the ghosts are some kind of hologram projection. Clara as the hologram being the Checkov’s duck/gun as it were.

    I missed the sword in the lake suggestion. Must be overdue for a brush up on Arthurian legend. Lakes are also rather prone to harbouring the odd monster, certainly in both British and Scandinavian mythology, monster and sword maybe? Lakes can also be portals where different worlds/dimensions collide. Maybe something is leaking through from another reality. Lots to ponder.

    One of the best things about reading all the comments is that the second watch is so much more rewarding.

    Cheers

    Janette

     

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