SPOILER, SPOILER, SPOILER...

SPOILER, SPOILER, SPOILER...

SPOILER, SPOILER, SPOILER...

@ichabod (raises glass)  Me too!  Yes, it’s okay if the finale is tragic and brutal.  Twelve’s previous season finales were that way.  But never without some hope to lead us into Christmas.  It’ll just come in a surprising way this time, I’m guessing.

SPOILER, SPOILER, SPOILER...

@ichabod  wrote:

I’m inclined to agree — partly because of the context in which that end will occur: a big shift in the direction and tone of the show itself after Capaldi and Moffat and most of Moffat’s writing crew are gone; a shift, I expect, away from brilliance and complexity and boldness

This is awfully true.  And I do think poor Twelve…[Read more]

@missrori

An interesting analysis and some valid points I feel. However, whilst this

He might boast about himself in the heat of the moment but whenever all seems lost, he sees himself as the expendable one, the nobody, the one who was lost long ago and can’t be saved.  If there’s a chance a life can be saved, he will try to save it.  In his e…[Read more]

@ichabod I also really liked the episode and I generally like the volatility of this Doctor. I think for me it was just a problem with the particular scene involving shooting. As <span class=”useratname”>@nick mentions earlier, the Doctor specifically told Nardole that he is teaching Bill and what he taught her here is that sometimes the best…[Read more]

@ichabod

I agree it does seem to be a bit strange to do this after the prolonged uncertainty in series 8, but I think there’s little doubt somethings gone wrong. Whether its extreme grief, Missy, a hidden regeneration or something else, I think there’s too much accumulated evidence of strange, non-Doctorish behaviour to ignore.

@missrori

I…[Read more]

@nerys @ichabod I agree that there was only so far this episode could go and still be family-friendly.  Many critics and viewers wanted the Doctor to have either truly sided with the Monks or have been brainwashed, from my understanding, and have the episode just deal with that.

If he’d been sincere he no longer could be seen as a hero at all,…[Read more]

@nick The fact that it’s not the first time such forgetting was used as a plot device is explained plausibly, and I think far better than I could, by other posters like Puro. I find this explanation by @ichabod to be most compelling:

There is that: this isn’t the targeted audience for Children of Men, it’s DW, where even showing a bit of gore is…

[Read more]

@tardigrade @ichabod

He has shown he can summon regeneration energy to heal another in the past. This seemed to go further than that, though probably shy of actual regeneration. Conceivably it was just faked in some way anyway- he was planning for this after all. I didn’t think there was a suggestion he was actually injured – the soldiers wer…[Read more]

@glasgowboy @Ichabod

I may have misheard it, but I thought Missy said that the Monk’s werent aware that the link passed along to descendents, but thought that there control was maintained through more normal methods after the death of the original link.

@ichabod  I think what Moffat and co. meant about Bill not being “special” was that she does not enter the story as having some great mystery surrounding her, as Amy Pond did with the crack in her bedroom, or Clara Oswald did with her multiple lives.  Bill really is “just” a cafeteria worker with little means and little really fulfilling in l…[Read more]

A couple of other points I didn’t noticed being raised yet:
* Again the Doctor’s plan consisted largely of taking the pyramid by force, which isn’t a particularly inspired solution, and force has been an increasing tactic of late. If the Monks had simply closed the door, it’s not clear there was a backup plan- pile into the Tardis, I suppo…[Read more]

The Doctor and the co-ordinated military attack:

@ichabod  I doubt we’ll find out.  Maybe it was as simple as realizing that his own capacities were so hampered by the blindness that the best first move would be for humanity to try its heavy weapons…

@tardigrade  I don’t think the Doctor was very invested in the attack- it wasn’t his idea and…[Read more]

@mirime    This. They would just find the next point of imminent doom. They didn’t look like they were giving up, they looked like they were going back to check out their simulations.

Yes, I agree, the Monks just don’t look as if they are going to abandon the Earth of their own accord. I argued upthread that, given the information available to…[Read more]

Before I get going, can I beg people not to keep referring to the “next time” clips which not everyone has seen? I believe those are considered spoilers on the episode forums (I certainly consider them as such).

@ichabod @tardigrade (and anyone else who mentioned this)  Agree about the aliens’ notion of love and consent. It occurred to me on sec…[Read more]

@ichabod   I think “power” to the monks is freedom to make effective choices, so their idea of “love” is just what the Doctor says it is: “Love is — slavery.”  Well, he should know: he was recently shown increasingly enslaved (and perverted from his natural, chosen course) by one hell of an obsessive love for his former companion.[Read more]

@thane15:  Thane typing for Puro (we are the Hybrid -Puro is my mum. She can’t write less than a 1000 words)

Yes, I’d noticed! (said with affection)

@ichabod;  Yes — you couldn’t miss the shabbiness of the jacket, compared to the swashbuckling dark red velvet one . . . or even the Regency black.  A nice, telling detail.

I too wondered about the…[Read more]