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15 November 2014 at 04:59 #35576
@purofilion – millions weren’t being spent when I lived there, lol.
@badwulf – I watched The Daleks recently too. I noticed that Ian is the one who seems to take charge rather than the Doctor. The early seasons of Doctor Who often went on for 5 or episodes, in season 3 The Dalek’s Master Plan is 12 episodes long, but some of the episodes are still missing.
14 November 2014 at 16:27 #35535@purofilion – I’m originally from the Brisbane area, Redcliffe actually, though I no longer live in Oz.
14 November 2014 at 16:22 #35534@lisa – you can get it on Hulu, I think they have all that is available. But where you can get it for free I don’t know, sorry.
13 November 2014 at 21:14 #35478@fonsini – characters played by British actors being portrayed as ‘the baddy’ on American T.V. or in movies would surely never happen. Ya think?
11 November 2014 at 19:12 #35353@IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan thanks for the link
10 November 2014 at 18:23 #3526910 November 2014 at 16:18 #35256@Lscot6 – it was Brisbane. I took it as a nod to the character of Teagan who travelled with Doctor’s 4 and 5, and who was from Brisbane. But, I may just be making connections where there aren’t any, it was a rather random mention though.
9 November 2014 at 18:55 #35167Great episode, thoroughly enjoyed it.
I also noticed the fantasy theme continuing with Missy as Mary Poppins and Santa will be here for Xmas. I thought it was interesting that Santa tells the Doctor that he (the Doctor) can’t let it end like that (or words to that effect). I wonder what the Doctor will want for Xmas.
CyberDan the Good – touching scene between him and Clara and their goodbyes. I’m not sure this is the last of the character, there’s still Orson’s family heirloom that Clara gave to Rupert. We may not see a resolution on this, but I hope we do. He again seems to goad the Doctor, he calls him ‘blood-soaked’ and again refers to him as an officer (twice, actually) then again says to Clara that this who the Doctor really is. But this is also the time that the Doctor realizes who he is – he has flashbacks and realizes he’s not good, not bad, not an officer, not a president – just an idiot in a box. I wondered if something clicked in the Doctor’s head at that moment, I mean other than just that realisation.
This is the second time Clara has claimed to be the Doctor. The first time she did it I thought she was just being a bit cheeky and having some fun at his expense, and the second time she’s trying to save her own life (there’s irony in that CyberDan saves her). Maybe nothing, but if she does it again, I sense a pattern. No idea what it might mean though. On another note, does Missy know that Clara is spread across the Doctor’s timeline and has been there at various points to help him? It isn’t clear to me if this is the case or not. Did she really know what she was doing when she chose Clara?
They killed Osgood. How dare they! Bring her back! … erm, please. I really liked her – scarf, bow tie, didn’t notice the shoes till someone mentioned it (I can’t remember who, sorry). @apopheniac – I hope your theory is true. @lisa – now you’ve got me thinking of ‘flesh’.
Oh, and it’s the Doctor’s birthday. At least Missy remembered.
2 November 2014 at 17:40 #34546Hi
I really liked the episode and it will be interesting to see how it unfolds in the second part.
Like some of the posters above, I too got a sense that those people, including Danny, weren’t dead. There’s just something odd about the dead with technology, even with Steve Jobs there.
When Clara is checking her post-it notes at the beginning before she calls Danny, I felt that she was making sure she had gotten all the bits of information she needed before she made the call. She picks up the ‘say it’ note as if it’s the final part of whatever it is that needs to be done and then calls Danny. Also, the way she said ‘I love you’ to Danny is strange, again, a point other posters have noted. She has told him this before, so it’s not a nervous first-time, ‘ok, I’m going to say it’ , it is, instead, very deliberately said. I’m in two minds as to whether this is the final piece of the puzzle Clara is putting together, or something else.
I’m not sure how much I really think of this theory as viable, but I’ll throw it in here anyway. What if the people are in some way connected to some kind of super-computer and certain parts of their memories are being extracted and presented as reality. If there are children there that would explain some of the more fairytale like stories, a Skovox Blitzer from the mind of a soldier, and so on.
Michelle Gomez is great as Mistress/Master. I do wonder though, if the St Paul’s in this episode is also possibly an unreal place. Whilst it was amusing to have Missy comment about Scotsmen and football matches, the people there were rather oddly reassured by a woman in Edwardian dress making the comment.
1 November 2014 at 15:21 #34416@purofilion – it’s a fantasy happy ending and there’s the odd link between the mother complaining about the hydrangeas and then, ta-daa, Annabelle appears.
@thommck – I agree there is some similarity between Maebh and Amelia (I’m assuming you mean the eight-year old). She also reminds me of a young Clara in terms of appearance.
cheers
31 October 2014 at 10:35 #3437131 October 2014 at 10:14 #34369I’m having fun reading all of people’s theories on where the series is going.
@drben – love your theory, fantastic!, as 9 would say.
@janetteb – interesting, that helps to link up the three characters, as you know I seem to have a bee in my bonnet about Danny, for some reason I find the character interesting. I’ve also wondered if we were ever going to see some kind of Susan story. We’ve never really found out much about the Doctor’s family – a glimpse of his mother, I thought, when he was given his sentence just before 2 regenerated into 3 and maybe there was another time, but I can’t remember what episode or even which Doctor.
@Margaret-Blaine – I like the Valeyard theory and it does tie in the whole glimpses of the dark side of the Doctor we get. I’m thinking of The Waters of Mars here, there are probably other examples though.
If we are going to suggest old foes then I’ll throw – Missy is the Dark Guardian – into the mix. He has been defeated by the Doctor before and has used intermediaries to get to the Doctor. But, I prefer the Valeyard theory to be honest.
As for the overall arc mystery, I like the ‘it’s all happening in Clara’s head’ one. The first time I saw the fantasy-type episodes, I didn’t really like them. But seeing them again through this lens they started to make more sense, and I can see how they work in the overall arc of the season. But as all know, Moffatt has probably thought up a far more twisted and intricate plot than that.
30 October 2014 at 21:51 #34357Evening all,
@phaseshift – I also noticed the wolves and tiger in the museum and then, later, the predators in the forest happen to be wolves and a tiger. It seems a strange coincidence, but then it could be just a coincidence. But the closer I look at this episode the more I get a sense of someone making this up (or parts of it, at least) as they go along.
I also noticed that when we see Maebh’s mother talking on the phone the first time we see her, she complains about the hydrangeas the neighbours have planted. Did Maebh’s sister reappear from out of a hydrangea bush? It a pretty brief scene so, I may have interpreted whatever the plant was as a hydrangea.
@stormintheheartofthesun – thanks, I thought it was Orson. I find the Rupert-Orson link interesting. If it is indeed a family heirloom, and there’s no reason (at least for me) to assume Orson was lying, will Danny suddenly produce it at some point? As you say, there is the suggestion of a future for Danny and Clara. Is this why he’s prepared to put up with (to some extent) her lying? Does he remember the person who told him that this toy soldier would protect him when he was a child in the orphanage? If indeed Rupert was him as a child.
I’m still confused as to why the Doctor turns up to Clara with Orson saying ‘Look who I found’ (or something like that) and then he later says Danny and Orson look nothing alike. We, as an audience, know that they do. They’re played by the same actor, there is a reason why this was done. Clearly, I don’t know what this reason is. The three Danny’s thing still bothers me, clearly, lol.
@rob – I’ve also wondered if there is a Maebh-Clara link. Maebh knocks on the Doctor’s door saying ‘Are you the Doctor? I need the Doctor’. She was being chased by something, she tells the Doctor ‘Miss Oswald told me to find the Doctor, but it wasn’t. It was just in my head.’ Later, the Doctor points out to Clara that Maebh was missing (she’s surprised), she then points this out to Danny (he’s surprised). The Doctor shows Clara Maebh’s book about the solar flare and refers to the solar flare on Karabraxox . Clara wants to know where he got the book from, he says she left it in the TARDIS. Clara says something like ‘You don’t think Danny saw this, do you?’
Despite Clara having problems with accepting the Doctor’s regeneration in the first episode, I get a feeling of them both reaching out to each other.
29 October 2014 at 18:39 #34285Thanks for the welcome.
@purofilion – makes sense, perhaps this is why he started the cadet group, to bring a sense of order and familiarity. But order to what? He seems to have some very strong feelings about having been in the military. I wonder if he represses these feelings until something triggers him and those feelings come out. The scene in the TARDIS where he goads the Doctor seems, to me, to be one of these.
On a side note- do we know for sure what battles Danny has been in?
@bluesqueakpip – he does seem to be acting in a way that suggests he thinks the Doctor is dangerous. But it is true that we don’t know for sure if that is the case.
I also find his and Clara’s relationship strange, but from reading what other people have posted, I’m not alone in this. The most noticeable thing, as many people have pointed out, is that he is very tolerant of her lying. He has repeatedly asked her to tell the truth, but she doesn’t. Until the end of this episode and when she tries to and he cut her off (ok, I know somebody else has said that and I apologise for not remembering who).
There’s also the three Danny’s, but here, again, is I can’t remember exactly what happened in the series. Clara told Rupert the toy soldier that would protect him, so, was it Danny or Orson that had that same toy later? My brain is saying Orson, but I’m not sure.
@arbutus – ok thanks, that’s what it was. I vaguely remember some comment from one of the kids about round things, and I guess my brain decided to ad lib on that.
I want to say more about the other characters, but must do a re-watch of ‘The Forest in the Night’.
good night, happy posting.
28 October 2014 at 21:19 #34246Hi, I would like to apologise if this has all been said before, I will try to catch up as much as I can.
I wanted to say that I didn’t want to end on a negative note about Danny in my previous post because I think his character is interesting – if ‘I’m kind of confused about him’ qualifies him as being interesting – apparently it does for me. He seems to have appeared in this season as three different characters – Danny Pink , Orson Pink and Rupert Pink – what’s going on there? Also, it was the Doctor who was the one who showed Orson to Clara and then later said that Orson and Danny didn’t look anything alike (Clara and I confused together). Just how was it that they ended up at the orphanage where Rupert was? That’s right, the Doctor had a hand in it – or perhaps it was Clara’s hand(s). I wonder if this goes back to the Doctor being aware there’s something funny going on.
I also thought the way that Danny interacts with the Doctor when he meets him in the TARDIS in ‘The Caretaker’ as rather surprising. He very quickly realizes that the Doctor knows he is there and stops the farce. Then, to me at least, he came off as rather aggressive towards the Doctor, the whole ‘you’re an officer and I’m just the foot soldier who carries out your orders’ speech, came out of nowhere for me. I can understand (from the perspective of someone who doesn’t know how it really is) that he had been a soldier in the past and so this past life can be a complicated issue for someone who has seen action, but how could he have possibly known the Doctor’s history and felt justified at being angry towards him? To me, it seemed as if he deliberately goaded the Doctor into throwing him off the TARDIS just so he could say to Clara ‘Now you can see him for who he really is’ – or words to that effect.
@Margaret-Blaine – I agree that there does seem to be contradictions in Danny’s character. Along with what you said I would add – Why start a cadet group at Coal Hill if you want to leave your previous life behind?
– I also agree with your ‘Doctor-dad’ theory – your point about him parking the TARDIS in Clara’s bedroom on the night of her first date with Danny does really make it clear that he is intervening on some level. But it also made me think about the relationship between the Doctor and Clara. Who’s watching out for who (not a pun – no, really).
On a completely unrelated note – am I wrong or did one of the kids ask where the round things where when s/he entered the TARDIS in this episode? Maybe wrong, I haven’t done my second watch.
27 October 2014 at 22:14 #34228Hi, I’m new here and this is my first post, so I hope I say something that contributes to the discussion. I have read this thread, but haven’t had a chance to read all of the previous ones, so if I repeat things that have been brought up in those, I apologise. I’m not sure how to use the @thing, but I will try my best to acknowledge people where I can.
I wasn’t sure about this series, but having been introduced to Doctor Who as a child in the 70’s, I am willing to ‘have faith’, as they say. I think the actors are doing a great job. Interesting season.
In previous Moffatt seasons there are the episodes and what happens in them and then there is the overall season arc that is something that you occasionally get reminded of just so you don’t forget it’s there, at least for me that has been the case. But to me, it seems this season seems to be mostly about the arc. I guess it’s why I find it interesting. I know that Moffatt doesn’t write every episode, and there are some very unhappy fans out there, but he is the show-runner, and I genuinely like what he has brought to the series. (Just wish to add that Russell T Davies was pretty amazing too)
I found the Robin Hood episode unsatisfying the first time I saw it. Robin Hood, whether or not he was possibly based on some unreal and/or distorted historical character, is so mythical to us now that it seems the Doctor is right to say that he never existed – at least it is such as if he never existed. (Robin Hood is largely a romantic character these days, perhaps I’m wrong). But the second time I watched it the thing that struck me was at the end, the Doctor says to Clara that he has left Robin Hood a gift -it is Marion. This was the girl who at the beginning of the story was the daughter of a peasant farmer, murdered by the Sheriff, and then forced into servitude by him. Until the doctor meets her. She is now, suddenly, Maid Marion, the true love of Robin Hood. (Clara is a fan of the story and Marion in particular – I thought.) I got the sense that the Doctor had had a hand in Maid Marion’s appearance at the end and he knows there is something not right. He was kind of aware of that in Deep Breath, but as he was still regenerating and had only a sense of familiarity to what was happening. It was not just this episode that jarred for me, but also “Kill the Moon” and “The Forest of the Night”. Too fantastical to be quite right – thanks PhileasF, Mudlark and Purofilion (so now I will try the @-thing)
@mudlark – I agree, that there have been fairytale references and that fairytales, in their original form, are a lot darker than they are presented to modern audiences. So there some well-lit episodes that you would think should be dark – Robin Hood (at least the Doctor thinks so …) and ‘In the Forest of the Night’ – do break with this very established ( if somewhat forgotten in these times) traditions.
@phileasf – your suggestion that there is a “land of fiction” happening here makes a lot of sense to me – at least in my trying to make sense of what’s going on. Moon-dragon, classic fantasy – well, dragons are, and it was rather dragon-like. Also, not quit – but close enough – Red Riding Hood (got the idea – wolf … little girl in a red jacket…with a hood.)
@Purofilion – again, making sense – perhaps Clara is creating her own ‘perfect world’. She does seem to be trying to do something, doesn’t she. You said that Clara knows literature, not science, true. So we have some rather ‘wonky’ science episodes, as people have noticed. Was it ever really possible that that a golden arrow could have been enough to assist what, frankly, was an interstellar space ship? (I know it blew up, but really?) Also, Moon-dragons – beautiful, but not sure they’re real. Now, Maebh, that even Danny forgot, but whom can make a wish that brings her sister back. (I think I’m not crediting someone with thinking of this first, sorry)
I want to say more and not finish on what sounds like a negative Danny note, but it’s very late for me and I have to go to bed. I hope to pick this up tomorrow.
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