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2 Gatiss scripts – 1 set in 1893, the other in 1983. What other years have been name (number?) checked? <adds “look for transposed years” to list of mirrors, watery portals, bow ties, nail varnish (what do you mean you haven’t kept a record of these @juniperfish??!), doppelgangers, pocket universes, GI refs, uploaded consciousnesses/souls, (dead) mothers, fathers, kids, signs of “conversion” in the Dr (dalekisation, cyberisation, GI-ation),

1 other thing that struck me was the scene at the end, back in (presumbly) present day. In RTD era, everyone knew the Dr, he got absorbed into the companions’ families lives, he was famous, known by politicians, Churchill etc etc. Now he’s a big secret.

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@ardaraith Re the GI – not much known about it from the Classic series – it has mysterious origins, wasn’t defeated, it just retreated – we now know to where. So it’s ripe for any development they want to throw at it. (see my theory re it actually being the Dr’s dark side).

Artie said he say the photos of Clara at school, which suggests he saw them on the internet, though someone could have emailed them or tagged him in them, on whatever social media site schoolkids use these days 🙂

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Woohoo! We got a link on Dan’s blog!!!! 😀

@bluesqueakpip As I posted above – all those photos being taken in the sepia recap bit – have to be connected with the pics on the internet at the end.  Stalkerish or what. And yes, I wondered about the GI too

 

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And the Dr being continually referred to as “young man”. Hee hee

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@juniperfish

What struck me immediately was the Doctor as a crimson petrified monster (as I’ve said over on The Graun). “Crimson, Eleven, delight, petrichor” anyone?

Yup, definitely.

Re Jenny – totally agreee!  Got so distracted by Ms Rigg and daughter, forgot the other brilliant female partnership in this – they rocked it!  And Strax is great – and he got to shoot stuff with big guns this week – that’ll keep him happy.

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@timeloop – never mind the violence to Mr Sweet by Ada, what about her attack on her mother, and vice versa… That is a seriously screwed up relationship. But the hatred and tension between them so convincingly portrayed.

Loved Jenny’s Emma Peel outfit. Interesting the Dr is outmanoevred several times – by Jenny, Clara, Strax, then Ada. His peaceful vague-ish solutions are summarily ignored in favour of a more violent one (reminded me a little bit of the scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark when Indy is confronted by the impressively black clad scimitar wielding baddie in the marketplace).

Right, off to the G blog for a while, Sat evenings are usually OK.  Tho I expect moans about overuse of sonic, plot holes, violence, Strax as a DEM and how it’s not nearly as good as it used to be and should be axed immediately for the sake of humaity 😉

Final thought on here for now – re discusssion on JttCotT re companions in NuWho esp under Moffat, not travelling continuously with the Dr, Clara has time off.

PS Loved the Thomas Thomas gag. And “brave heart Clara” Aww 🙂

PPS Was it just me, or did Me Sweet look a tad phallic…?!

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OOOoooooooh. Creeeeeepy! Diana Rigg must surely be in the running for one of the nastiest monsters ever in DW. At least “Mr Sweet” was only following its instincts. Mrs Gilliflower was doing the complete opposite of what a mum is supposed to be. (“delicious” @phaseshift says – yup, beautifully pitched) And Rachel Stirling was stunning. My heart went out to her after only a couple of scenes.  The result of parental abuse and rejection.

And yes, hitting all the right beats for a Victorian melodrama. And great little callbacks to Baker and Davison.

I’d forgotten all about the mysterious b/w photos from earlier till we got to the final scene. Someone’s following them and posting pics of Clara on the internet…?

And 1893? Year of Victorian Clara’s demise. What WAS he planning to do there, and why divert to Yorkshire…?  Well, obv Mrs G, but…

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Further roles of Classic Who companions in the 60s included getting kidnapped/captured/hypnotised/fall-over-and-sprain-ankle (Susan was particularly talented at this), as well as ability to run around and scream well 😉 . And occasionally falling in love when they needed to move on.

Very excited about tonight’s episode. Interesting look to some of the preview pics and posters (only looked at a very few) – there’s a “plastic” sort of look that’s reminding me of something that I can’t quite put my finger on.  Hope it’s a goodie. See you all on the other side 😀

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Hi everyone,, especially @craig (welcome back; open the “networking” schedule wasn’t too manic, LOL)

Some great posts above – Good to see @haveyoufedthefish‘s 11’s Tardis goes to 1 theory has still got great legs.

Re Classic Who/Nu Who – great analysis (as usual!) by @bluesqueakpip, very much agree.  Other key difference between them is in the stories themselves. The Doctor and companions would have a bit of back story – possibly picked up in their intro episode, but mostly the stories weren’t about them as such. They would arrive somewhere and get involved in someone else’s story (much like us the viewers).  Whereas since 2005 the story is much more about the Dr and the companions. Moffat is on record as saying that his view of Dr Who is that it’s very much about the companions’ “journey” eg Amy starting as a child, thro to adulthood.  the adventures tend to reflect the emotional situations of the companions – eg Amy’s Choice, Vincent’s depression-monster etc – it’s about the effects the people they meet  have on the travellers rather than the other way round.  Hence the reason for much gnashing of teeth and fuming and the “it’s not as good as it was” comments.  It’s not that it’s not as good, it’s just different.

And I’m 100% with @htpbdet 🙂 Please no cheesy 4th wall love-in (meta-refs are fine!) and @blenkinsopthebrave‘s 4th wall Kennedy theories also fine!); Doctor’s name revealed if they must (tho somehow I don’t think they will) so long as they retain mysteries about the details of his origins. Hints are fine, for obsessional theorising after.

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@~Phaseshift

LOL at the Potterisation of Who

BUT – Doctor Who and the Philosophers Bath?

Sounds like someone’s hi-jacked @whohar‘s transdimensional watery thinking place (currently residing in On the Sofa)

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@phaseshift

@blenkinsopthebrave

We shall repel them with wit, and mathematician humour.

Well said my brave friend. They shall wilt and die on the sunny hillside of our remorseless enthusiasm!

Haha, Love it.  I reckon the mathematician humour should do it really! (@Shazzbot). And failing that we have Ming the Merciless, the Master and the ascerbic Scottishness of @jimthefish to run them out of town 😉 (Not to mention we’ve got @omega and planeteater @galactus on our side too!)

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OK, last one. Promise 😀    Staying with a 60s theme – The Bonzo Doodah Dog Band and Beautiful Zelda (from Galaxy 4 (as in where the Drahvins come from)) Gotta watch out for those space girls 🙂 (not sure how Viv Stanshall gets away with the finger but ah, they were more innocent times! (well the continuity people were))

 

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@whisht Haha! YouTube’s even more addictive than DW bonkers theories, LOL.

Thanks for Fripp – will check him out in a wee while.  And Big Mama Thornton’s just amazing. Her Hound Dog just oozes sleaze 😉

In reply – and to tuck you into bed with a smile – (and picking up thematically on @juniperfish‘s Led Zep Rain Song post earlier) – I give you Sister Rosetta Tharp – Didn’t it Rain (Manchester 64 (since we’re heading “north” on Sat apparently) – they knew how to do location shoots in those days, LOL. Electric cables, rain – pah!) Nighty night

 

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@HaveYouFedTheFish @miapatrick Interesting – so Amy writes stories, River also; Clara is written ON (“skin like parchment”)

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@whisht A fish seems likeliest – they’re the new target demographic, LOL

Yikes! Just remembered I forgot to turn off the bath taps (@whohar‘s kindly donated monster-bath) – Luxury accommodation for the Fishy Clan, beside the sofa, in the interests of drier speculation for the rest of us…  <been running since Sat, should be nearly done 😉  >

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@haveyoufedthefish – sorry – just read your follow-ups. Scrub  my 11 is 0 and 1 is 12 add-on to your theory

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Oh my giddy aunt! @haveyoufedthefish – that’s BRILLIANT!

So just to get this straight (keeping in mind it’s a timeloop) – are you saying Hartnell’s actually no 12…? (I come out of partying in 60s psychedelia on the Music Board with @juniperfish and feel like I’ve dropped a tab of acid, ha!)    <Hastily tries to cover up the burn mark on the carpet, before anyone sees 8-D  >

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@juniperfish Ah, Arthur Lee – fabulous (had privilege of seeing him about 6 years ago on his first retirment tour). Will come back to Love later 🙂 (thanks for the embedding tip. I think I lost Nico when I edited, maybe I should have checked the link)

This one’s for Clara in Asylum and  Ice Warrior Skaldak & his daughter  – Ball & Chain! (Janis killing it at Monterey) That’s my hand of  3 ace female voices btw

 

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@htpbdet for that really moving post on Troughton. Totally agree about the wiping, but his Doctor sleeps in our heads and we can waken him up from time to time, and remember.  Enjoy some vintage 60s space visuals courtesy of Mr Bowie’s Space Oddity (little bit different from the single version)

 

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And then there’s all the Alice in Wonderland refs with rabbit holes, wormholes, mirrors etc. Grace Slick has one of the most underrated rock voices EVER in my opinion

 

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@juniperfish – thought I had the hang of embedding, but it didn’t happen on Femme Fatale 🙁 ( @phaseshift, help…?)

Oooh and nice return on I’ll Be Your Mirror (and the Mamas and Papas from ages ago)

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And a very loose connection with the above, and Who. Song about a mysterious woman (with the glorious and completely bonkers Nico)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjjDmX9Tkss

 

 

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Nice one @juniperfish. What a lovely space this is – not had a chance to hang in here much… Like @bobbingbird‘s MES/Fall vid too.

That last link to Loopy Lou is dead – try this one (it’s had 2m+ views so presumably it’s got permission, LOL)

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I’m being very wary of the internet from now on, with just 3 weeks to go. There’s going to be all sorts of potential troll-y press and twitterers trying to drop big hints that they know secrets <Secrets keep me safe, oh yes > most won’t know anything but the odd one might!. Especially since Moff and team managed to keep JLC so impressively under wraps before AotD, some will see it as a challenge. Press at previews have to virtually sign the official secrets act before they’re allowed in. I presume the cast/crew are the same.

I’ll be surprised if Tennant, Piper and Hurt are the only names/surprises they manage to sneak into the 50th. 100% agree with @phaseshift – if it’s on imdb pre-episode it’s probably wrong. @htpbdet John Hurt as the Master – that’d be brilliant.

<throws fish finger and custard pie @bluesqueakpip (with no forewarning!!) ;-p >

 

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@juniperfish @omega – well we’ve got the right new member if we want bonkers! Let us know if you get an answer, Jfish :-p

<runs off to safety of JttCotT board before she gets blasted LOL>

*pttpth! (spits out memory of the movie!)*

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@juniperfish

OTOH I wouldn’t trust Dorium Maldovar (much as I love him) as much as a Saturnian smidgeon. He’d even sell @chickenelly‘s (fictional (nooo!)) Scottish granny for a fast intergalactic buck, or a bit of power and influence.

 

<gets excited hoping the Silence are coming back>

 

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@ardaraith

Matt in drag – thanks for the link – Aww, how young he looks! DM says of the part – “Smith plays the confused and damaged 18-year-old Henry, who has an incestuous relationship with his drug-abusing and alcoholic mother Martha”. Sounds straightforward compared to the Dr’s relationships, LOL

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@ardaraith

my imagination is running away with me

So why else would you be hanging about in here!!

(This is the place to be in case Moff’s resolution proves to be less imaginative than our bonkers theories hehe)

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I do like Smith’s take on the Doctor, especially how he ranges from knockabout physical comedy to I’m-a-Time-Lord deadly serious. I don’t think he’s necessarily getting progressively darker* – Hartnell could be incredibly scathing (and I cringe watching Pertwee with Jo sometimes – he’s just out and out mean, or at least oblivious of her needs (very 70s)). The Dr’s an alien and sometimes his empathy sense gets distracted by… ooooh! look! once-a-millenium exploding quantum-laser-star in  Rigelian Galaxy 4…

(that’s why he needs humans around)

*Not ruling out darkside split (GI), or interacting timestreams/pocket universe duplicates.dopplegangers tho

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@phileasf

River’s definitely post Time War (spent 3 hours and many braincells sorting that out!) so she can’t go back there. (not to say she couldn’t study it retrospectively of course, but difficult to get eye-witnesses from a time-lock). Author is the Tardis with psychic paper.

 

The Doctor, with a wig and a silly voice…

Dont’ be silly… that was Pertwee’s forte 😉

 

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@htpbdet <waves at fellow GI theorist. Ha! 3  episodes on and they’ve all forgotten it>

So I can’t persuade you to part 2 of the theory that the  GI is actually the Doctor’s disembodied darkside/depression somehow prized away from his main self (maybe on an astralplaning therapeutic yoga session!)? You did say yourself you thought Matt is getting lighter! <ducks!>

100% agree with “I am only really sort-of-sure of one thing: at the moment, neither the Doctor nor Clara know what she is for”!

@bluesqueakpip – ignore the prejudices of an aging chained-up stone angel 🙂 Would put a whole new spin on the Dr’s and River’s relationship tho… OK, I can be convinced!

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@fulcanelli Not to mention it’s a spoiler for the book!!! I’ve been savouring the thought of getting my hanky out for chapter 11!  😉  Absolutely no hard feelings though.

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Gamechanger/reset specualtion – agree Moff’s unlikely to alter the fundamental basis of the series (mad man in a travelling box) but I’m sure he’d love to shed at least some of the weighty trail of contradictory canon. I doubt it will change into the Space Family Who – the story of Mr & Mrs Who with their 8 children, pioneering homesteaders for a new future on Outpost Gallifrey (tho it might be the spin-off 🙂  )

Born again in a new universe, with new rules? If Moff reveals some myths, I think you can be sure it will only be in the process of developing some new ones. I’d have no problem if Clara turns out to be a future (or past) incarnation of the Dr, and no disrespect to JLC’s talents, but agree with @bobbingbird that she’s too young to take over as a full regeneration at the moment (for more than just the in-story reasons). OK, I admit to being an ageist old git!  And if we’re thinking that, you can bet half of fandom would implode. (hehe, is that a bad thing??)

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Yep, am with @thommck re hyper-sensitive to what might be termed a spoiler. Unless it’s spelt out on the home page of the official site, which makes it probably unavoidable for anyone who’s online. If in doubt, post in spoilers <very proud of herself for keepin out of there for more than a week now!!> Much appreciated 🙂

LOL @@juniperfish and the Family Impossible, also @bobbingbird on the acronym of Amy, River and Clara is ARC.

Apologies to @htpbdet if I highjacked your GI hijacks the Tardis theory (Is the (dark side) Dr is the GI yours as well? (I get confused a lot, but work on the basis if it sounds like a genius new bonkers theory – it’s probably someone else’s LOL)). I agree with you re a talking cat sounds more like a Tardis ref than a River one (cats don’t like water).

One more thing that occurred to me about the Tardis (“after was it kidnapped in BoSJ?” thought), was re the Big Book. How do we know there was even anything actually written in it all? It was very carefully shot so as to reveal absolutely nothing of the pages. The Tardis could be using the equivalent of psychic paper so that it’s not at all a coincidence Clara opens it and sees the picture/story/headline she needs to see.

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@bluesqueakpip – just interested – did you rewatch it? Did you change your mind about it at all?

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@bluesqueakpip I like your thinking re looking at the Tardis (good to get away from DEMs for a while! 😉 ) Nice work on the list of Tardis-moods.

Something else occurred to me – in BoSJ, Ms Kizlet sends a “task force” to get the “blue box” – they have the embarrassing moment at Earl’s Ct (?) when they try to pick up the wrong one, but it sounds like they’ve identified the right one after that. So – is that just a loose end / they never got to it as other events took over? Or has the Tardis been kidnapped by the GI? (In which case are we seeing an earlier/later version of it now?)

Following that thought… the GI, being the non-corporeal version of the Doctor’s dark side* (let loose possibly in the Snowmen, but maybe before), has now taken possession of old sexy, invading her circuits as House did, but more welcome in some ways, as its her Dr, or a part of him.  Her recent apparent mood swings are down to her and the GI-Dr battling to get their own way

(Could also explain her behaviour when she was exploding in TBB, and the doomy voice)

*See recent new bonkers theory – he always has been (The name of the Doctor is the Great Intelligence)

(Can also be seen as variation on @juniperfish‘s red/blue bow ties / double Dr /dark Dr theories)

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@timeloop   Problem with the gangers is that they need an original before they can be created. The gangers we saw were anomalies remember, given independent life by frankensteiny-lightning. Usually they operated like avatars in a computer game, like an extension of the original.

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Lots of new posts – brains are working overtime 🙂

@bluesqueakpip – absolutely beautiful post on the Dr and children last night; had no end of dust in my eye after that one!  re your Clara as programme theory – the scene where she takes the Dr’s hand and he notices the burn – he describes her skin as being like parchment – my first thought was just cos it’s thin and fragile then I remembered it’s also what you write on 🙂

Also agree with you re Clara’s “I saw it on the tiny…” I think the toy Tardis is the only thing that fits that description that she picked up.

Love the theory about a photo in the Big Book being of the person who gave her the phone no. That would fit with her tone when she says “So that’s who…” (It didn’t sound like a big revelation, more like a small piece of jigsaw slotting into place0.

So who?  River certainly has form when it comes to getting messages to the Dr in unconventional ways. She also has form re knowing what’s going on and trying to manipulate, possibly on the Dr’s orders, and access to a time bracelet.  Incidentally I agreee with @htpbdet – on River’s timeline – she can’t have met him before Tennant (not in that form anyway, and it was certainly implied that she gave up the rest of her regenerations in LKH) or Tennant would have recognised her. She implied then that “her” Dr was an older one which would suggest that she could be around for a bit yet. NB They meet out of order, seemingly randomly re timelines.  @timeloop while I can’t imagine she’s very happy in the peaceful tranquility, the Dr (or whoever) would need a spare, presumably living, body to transfer her consciousness into – bit of an ethical minefield there!

Knowing they’ve trailered Rose as coming back, she’d also need to go in the frame, as someone who has reached out of her pocket dimension before with a warning.

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ROFL @Shazzbot‘s Barbie dalek

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@haveyoufedthefish –

“Ex-cru-ciate”

😉

@jimthefish

Trollsheep dalek – “ob-fus-cate!”

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And pink re-decor-ate dalek made me smile. definite missed opportunity there

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<collapses in a heap on the sofa after traumatic day dealing with the infinity problem and crossing swords with @jimthefish‘s favourite troll! (kudos to @bluesqueakpip for killing that one 🙂 >

And someone please remind me NOT to go on the G-blog after Sundays! Knee-deep in trolls and moany slimey things :-p <throws a jammy dodger (and an ice pack) to @jimthefish >

Thanks to everyone for suggestions re infinity being said in offhand way to mean huge and infinite possibilities. If that’s good enough for @haveyoufedthefish then it works for me! <happy again>

Lots of new stuff on here to cogitate on 😀 (do you cogitate on or about btw? Or just cogitate? (who says Who isn’t educational?)

 

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@lula The way he wears his watch could be more cultural than anything else. My mum used to call that the American way (from the GIs in WW2). But I do agree there could be something in the jewellery.  She does have a lot of it doesn’t she? And we know that at least 1 of the rings belonged to her mum. Triangles. huh? <makes mental note to go and squint harder at freeze-frames!>

@OsakaHatter ‘So that’s who…’ It’s odd set-up. Also she mentions “in the tiny…” when the Dr tells her to Sssh – that book couldn’t be described as tiny!  As you say, almost any recognition of (presumably) a picture, should result in more surprise, whether it’s a well known figure or a relative/friend.

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New theory – The Doctor will be revealed to be fully human patient in a padded cell with delusions of being a time traveller in a magic box. Clara’s his therapist.

<still grumpy about the infinity problem>

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@haveyoufedthefish

Don’t even get me started on why is there an open gantry going through such dangerous space as the eye, rather than a sealed, shielded tunnel, or why it’s so easy to fall through the banisters.

That one’s easy – old type 40, no health & safety regs programme; 1 of the reasons they made it obsolete

<goes back to pondering the infinity problem!>

 

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@janetteb Hmm, interesting thoughts on the children. I’d always assumed the Time War got so bad that there were only (bonkers) adults left.

And if the Tardis is infinite, why would you go anywhere else? Does a definition of the Tardis being infinite not mean that there can’t be anywhere else?

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But I like the idea that a few have mentioned that Clara may well have absorbed some of the Gallifreyan encyclopeodia when it spilt – otherwise why break it?

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It took me two days to get round to thinking about it (I have a small and finite brain!) but I agree with @haveyoufedthefish. “Infinity” is a massive concept 😉   Even the suggestion that he might have been exaggerating, just a teensy bit to impress the Salvagers, would have helped.   May take quite a few cups of caffeine to work this one out 😀

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If the Tardis is infinite, where does everyything else fit in?

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@whohar I wondered that too (about Clara not to touch the other Doctor). Unless she already had in an earlier timestream and it led directly to burning up or something not good.

@juniperfish Don’t forget to add the GI is a manifestation of the Doctor’s dark side (set loose in all the temporal mayhem they’ve just been through, and searching through time and space for the rest of himself (ie the Doctor (who is unbalanced for now as he has too much conscience and not enough dark side!))

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