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Well, I was going to reply and was just adding references to other people when I accidentally clicked on craigs name…………….AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRÄGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH-.-“””””” To annoyed now.

Basically I don’t agree. There is more future and the Doctor will or will not die again at Trenzalore depending on how Moffat has planned to get them both out of that time-stream. The Doctor will change his future because he has seen it [as seen with Amy]. I will stick with that. Hurt is Nine. Mental block referred to Clara or to Nine & Time War and I’d rather the latter. Latter also  might be blocked with that awful machine that can turn him human.

If I don’t answer I agree and have nothing to add or do not disagree enough. I will not participate as much without new, substantial information because I feel like everything is already in the open. I don’t want to ruin the fun for everybody who enjoys loose theorising, so I will just peek into this thread now and then.

Oh, and I agree with @scaryb a like button would be nice  to state an opinion.

One thing we could come up with is how Moffat plans to get them out. I feel like that is in our reach to crack open. You have seen and analysed his work for so long now. What do you think?

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Thanks Craig for all your work.

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@Shazzbot Thanks, but not my initial point ^^ I can think of work-arounds, but thanks again for your help

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@craig just give me a shout if you need any help at all.

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@Shazzbot Is the described problem hard to understand? Anyway I did not have it a while ago so I just wanted to bring some attention to it (maybe a wonky format?)

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@craig Still something wrong with the “The Doctor Who Forum” banner on the top. Wont work continuously… Hope you had a nice bank holiday  and thanks for all the hard work;)

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Has anyone here metioned that the Doctor knows all of his future because he went in his Timestream (same as reading it in a book I presume)? So he can refer to it in the past tense because to him all that is to come has already happened? Maybe enabling him to change his future (the two streams facility..[Amy])?

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Just because I LOVE River @lula maybe you enjoy them as well…

(I dont particularly like the music, but the theme)

(Shake it!)

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@case Find a way to access the iPlayer (no, nothing to do with apple). You can watch the episodes for a few weeks after first screening.

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Re Souffle Girl

I also would like it to be easy (both comming up with it seperately). I dont think that would be a sign of bad storytelling.

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There seems to be a problem with the link to the main site (the one when you click on the banner on the start of each site). Sometimes there is no link to get back, sometimes there is…

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@Bluesqueakpip Nice rundown.

Re ‘Souffle Girl’
Sounds like that would be a mistery to you? In tNotD she states “I am ‘Souffle Girl’ after all” Because she understands she is the recipe and not the product (something she says to the children before about Souffle)

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Yay, new thread.

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RE: Leaf

I believe it is the same as earlier in the dream with the tea and champagne. You can conjure things from your memory. The Doctor knew what it looks like. Moreover I believe the Doctor needed an object to land at Claras point of the timestream. Just as in TAtM. Or TEoT (the Master getting the TLs back). And thar Clara got the leaf in his timestream does not mean that she can take it outside.

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@Bluesqueakpip Thanks! I always wondered if a name for that existed. Is it a very common word in English? I love learning new (certain) stuff!

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So much old stuff on here =/  Time to mix it up!

Well then, lets start off with an old song which describes the doctor perfectly (on a bad day)

Move on to something more cheery (but still old song – from old movie)

One in the same style of video number 2 (I like those)

And one as a badass Doctor

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@craig Is the activity stream liked to a wordcount?

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@Shazzbot Was more a mistake than anything else. I am not as familiar as you are

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Do

 

not

 

even

 

look.

Why

can

 

I

 

still

 

see

 

it

 

in

the activity steam? Seems to be a wordcount thing… Oh, come on!

 

 

 

Same as @Shazzbot nothing revealing for me in that pictures. You also see Matt and David together so no big deal. I stumbled across this  from the sun and I am very happy I did not read all of it. If you are interested though…

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“Later this year the BBC also premieres An Adventure in Space and Time, the brilliant drama written by Mark Gatiss that looks at the genesis of Doctor Who. If this video location report is anything to go by, we’re in for a memorable insight into the show’s origins.”

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@scaryb Is there no possiblity that Clara could have interfered in the first meeting with 2nd Doc? If we saw that form a viewpoint were Tranzalore already happened it could work … ._.

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Well I like both the @whisht  wiki reference (because new stuff could be easily added and theories could be easily linked) and @Bluesqueakpip is proposing the some thing, just board-intern. I like both but I will go with what @craig decides.

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Sorry, I did not read all posts, but I just found a way the GI could know about the Doctor but the Doctor not about the GI. Its the same Timeline as with River in SitL (sorry I know I refer a lot to River). The GI knows the Doctor from earlier in its live but the Doctor knows the GI form later in his lafe (originally). What we have seen is the GI already interfering. Because Clara is already interfering. So he doesent know because it had not happened yet but the GI knows because it has already happened. Makes that sense?

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@scaryb “And finally (possibly!)

@juniperfish

Some unknown force was controlling the TARDIS in The Big Bang – the one with the hissing voice. I think some very clever person either here or on the G-blog reckoned that hissing voice sounded like John Hurt’s!

Could be, as HDr tussles for control of the Tardis (pissed off that he is a Tardis-less Dr. Sheesh, no wonder he goes dark).  Though I’m also quite happy with it being the GI. (I doubt if it was either Grant or Hurt, but it could be either character)”

Is that not still in the timeline of the Silence? I assumed River forgot over and over what she was told to do…. Well thats a new way to see it ^^

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@scaryb ” @juniperfish Well @danmartinuk said that Moff told him that he and Matt read all the comments (they must be mad, masochistic or incredibly thick skinned).  I’m sure that’s why it all suddenly seems to be panning out in the direction of our theories, LOL. (Then they’ll twist it round like your blue/red, just when we’re feeling complacent, haha). And I did send Mr M a direct invite to come in here, so he’s bound to!!

So the headings for the production notes for the programme will go along the lines of – Dr & castquirks, Dates and numbers, Genuine Clues, Arc Refs, Random Things for Fandom Head-messing (inc blue/red, numbers, flashing lights, funny little pauses, switch the bow ties every now and then etc etc”

Ahahahaha! Imagine he really has such a list which keeps him up to date with the most recent theories! That would be absolutely hilarious! “What am I doing today…” XD

@Shazzbot ” @@juniperfish – “Companions, as we know in Nu Who, are what stop the Doctor from geting too dark.  So Hurt Doctor was/ is companionless, no doubt.” ”

Sounds absolutely right for me as well =)

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@osakahatter ”

 

@davemorris316 –

 

Technically speaking, there are no changes to any of this. As with all time travel, you can’t actually go back and change time, because you already did. All time is happening at once. So therefore, Clara was always going to jump into the time stream, and therefore has always been there at every point through the Doctor’s history and future. She specifically states this, but that the Doctor doesn’t always hear her – in fact it appears that only 1 and 11 directly address her (and 10 in the 50th I presume).

 

I wouldn’t agree that everything must always have already happened. The assumption that everything has always happened and therefore must happen is just one theory on how the universe could embrace paradox.  The multiverse/divergent-convergent realities is another theory.  We can’t prove or disprove either in the real world, but we can see how the Whoniverse has been set up.

 

If everything that happened must already have happened, it follows that if I traveled back in time and killed my Grandmother, I must already have killed my Grandmother.  But then I can’t exist, so I can’t go back in time., so I can’t kill her.  This cannot occur in a universe where everything that happens has always happened, as I will always decide to time travel but my biological Grandmother cannot be both alive and dead at the same time.

 

Which is where the multiple realities theory comes in – essentially, the moment I murder my Grandmother, a divergent universe/reality has been spawned.  In the original reality, I am still born, still attempt time travel etc.  In the new reality, the woman who would have been my Grandmother was murdered.  We end up with masses of universes branching out from each other like a really expansive family tree.  With convergent realities, different events in different realities lead to the same overall result, merging 2 realities together – arguably, this is what Marty was actually doing in BTTF – he was forcing his new reality to merge with his original one so that when he travelled foward in time within that new reality, he would arrive home.”

I agree with dave on this.  You do stay true to your timeline. That means you might cease to exist when you do your example (cant we change it to eating cake – your example is so brutal 😉 ) – however as time is relative to the lived history the past is not challenged by it. For example if you were to wait for your furture self for a conversation at a specific time and space and both of you stayed half an hour you both would always be there (see minisode last night). When the Doctor says he has to stay relative to the master (god knows when that was) even though he could just come back earlier to catch him he states he has to stay relative t his timestream. The Doctor does have a future and he has been with Amy at times where she was already gone. They progressively follow their timestream while all time happening at once. That means you always have the ready result even though you still have to forge the solution (River screwdriver)

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@Bluesqueakpip “Oh, and we may now know part of the reason for the Tenth’s shock on learning that River knows his name: if the Gallfreyan custom is that the name that locks your tomb is the birth-name, not the use-name – he knows he trusted River enough to make sure he was buried properly.

He told an archaeologist the password to one of the most famous tombs in the universe. ”

What a great explanation =D Love it

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@craig How much traffic have we had? (did we have?)

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lol @Shazzbot

 

I just remembered something from the graun: Didnt Dorium say somthing like “when the question is asked silence must fall”? The Silence thought it was to dangerous and believed it must be averted?  Doctor Who is kinda answered. Still this is not “the dangerous knowledge that must never be spoken” ( as he said to churchill). And if the Silence did not want the timeline to be corrupted…. why kill him earlier? Or are they refering to the second time (when he actually dies) ??

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@scaryb @Shazzbot

It is definitly inside. The are leaves in the controlroom as well. She just blew out of proportion and is a bit leaky. The are in the upper window part. That is why you see stars.

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@Shazzbot There is one Clara per GI isnt there? How could she haver several of her around the same time?

As to the other “besides ‘sleep’ being a reference to an earlier Doctor , in my mind it also referenced Shakespeare’s ‘to sleep – perchance to dream’.”

I have the same feeling about River being gone for good. -but why does that particular part deduce that for you?

@brotherjohn Meaning the database gets faulty?

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In retrospect I am wondering about something else: Why would River need to sleep and vanish at all (as an afterimage). She is saved, and the data wont get lost?

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@Shazzbot but the Doctor only knows the location of one?

 

BTW hi gang =D

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@juniperfish Well, then I must humbly apologize. I misread it as a fact, I’m sorry. I dont see her having any psychic though…. Just very informed and cunning.And I agree on everything else you said ^^. Sorry again, it’s been a long day for me.

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@BESD1  ” @juniperfish

“We now know that she suggested to Hartnell’s Doctor which TARDIS to steal. We also know, from The Doctor’s Wife, that the TARDIS stole her thief. Ergo – Clara is either a manifestation of the TARDIS or is psychically linked to the TARDIS. We already know she is psychically linked to River.

 

River, the TARDIS and Clara are all connected therefore.

 

River is a child of the TARDIS, that much we know. I don’t think Clara is her daughter or granddaughter, not from the way River interacted with her at the seance table. She is, surely, the creation of River and the TARDIS working together to save the Doctor.”

 

A compelling case, particularly the first part. This theory certainly fits all the evidence and also would be delightfully elegant if true. Just to add to it, we also know:”
Could someone please proove to me that ” she is psychically linked to River.” She said she was but only for the call. I just dont get your argumentation Oo
Sorry if you cleared that up already. I just came home and try to catch up – this bit just bugged me, thats why I ask. I just cant see it…

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@scaryb Yes 😉 And his hands are not flailing

 

One thing I keep wondering about…. Did  she only help eleven? Is she a Matt and David exclusive? A lot of important moments happened with 11.

Did SM let her say goodbye so the fans are not offended by Clara+Doc? I hope not.

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” Since nobody else in this room could see you, God knows how that looked..” Cracks me up every time.

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@craignixon What was the mindblowing thing with river?

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@theoriginal9321 It does not matter when he gave it to her. We know it is his incarnation, but that is all. He could have asked the machine(JttCotT) to make one for her specifications

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@galactus Wasnt the mother of the Doctor human? So there were exeptions. She does not have to be a timelord

@juniperfish “We already know she is psychically linked to River.” Why you think that? @Reaction to Clara River lies.

Welcome to everybody new =)

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Just warning you guys: I just stumbled across an article of the sun. Major spoilers for the 50th there. Thankfully I did not read nothing too important before I realised.

Do

not

even

look.

Spoiler-ish

I saw an outfit of the hurt Doctor in picture though

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I am so happy I was right! I even squeaked =D

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@lula I know that hotspotshield works. But it is sometimes a gamble where you end up..

I am looking very much forward to your thoughts on the episode =))

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@HolyMackerel Just add the entire link with http etc

@ardaraith I think we can still see her. Just doing things she has done before tNotD

ANd we still dont know WHYYYYYY the doctor said his name to River. Or when

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Hello again Gang (@Copyright/TM by @Juniperfish I really like it)

To further support Hurt is the 9th Doctor: Eleven already knows about him and what he has done. He is not bemused by him or curious. That might have been what the mental block was about. The ninth incarnation is his secret he does not want to be associated with him(self…?)

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@theoriginal9321 I have seen that as well. It either means:

1.the Tardis never changes interrior again
2. the death of the Doctor is close
3. There is a telepathic network that makes you see what you want to see
4. This is part of the malfunction of the dying tardis
5. All of the controllrooms still exist (as said in tWotD) and this is just the one were his timeline is kept. Maybe there is more to discover in this tardis about the Doctor… Maybe the interior of the 11th hour is were all his appearences are shown to “visitors”

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@Juniperfish Nice greeting =D

I agree with @Morbius and others. That John Hurt must be the 9th incarnation. Which makes perfactly sense to me for a huge fifties-episode (war and all).

@ardaraith She says “I was mentally linked with Clara” To me that sounds like her final exit – she let go.

 

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@phaseshift I was on the verge of tears at the sofa scene.

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Did I miss the promissed Clip??

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and I was right about the grave of the Doctor (yay!)
You guys were kind of right with the dream.

I love every second of River! How come she made him??

And a “suprise” new Doctor

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