The Day of The Doctor – The 50th Anniversary Special

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@miapatrick

Fixed points are definitely fixed but we may not interpret what we’ve seen correctly. Eg We think the fixed point is River shooting the Doctor but the actual fixed point is that River shoots the tesselector and the Universe thinks it’s the Doctor.  The writers just have to change the perspective/cheat 😉

The Flesh only acquired independent life as a result of the very particular conditions in Almost People story. Otherwise they always have to be linked to the original (ie baby River was elsewhere but would think she was in the spaceship with her mum as she experienced it through the flesh eyes/body).  But see first paragraph above re perspective/cheating.

@Shazzbot I’d put money on River being in the 50th 🙂 (except that I’m Scottish, and we’re mean!).  Her exit line of “Spoilers!” in NotD was obviously part of her we-don’t-do-emotions “the only way I can bear saying goodbye to you is if we pretend this isn’t the big one” stance but also strongly hints that she and a Doctor/Eleven meet again (in his future/her past). This River (the one uploaded to the computer) is the oldest one we can meet, she knows everything River is ever going to know – she knows if there’s more to come.

But questions remain re eg if she’s been able to access other computer networks while she’s been uploaded. Is Vastra’s seance/meeting the only time River’s been “out”?

PS We could always switch the flesh discussions to AGMGTW thread if you want to go into it in more detail

 

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

Is Vastra’s seance/meeting the only time River’s been “out”?

@scaryb, @miapatrick Judging from the dialogue in that seance/meeting, it’s not. Vastra, Strax and Jenny all act as if they know River very well. River, likewise, acts as if she knows the rules of a psychic connection – only Clara should see/hear her in the waking world. Additionally, the Paternoster Gang are all living in the same time zone – they’d normally have no need for a ‘Conference Call’.

@Shazzbot – like ScaryB, I’d be willing to bet that River’s in either the 50th or Matt Smith’s Regeneration. She was, after all, one of the themes of Series 7 Part B – ‘the music room is the heart of the house’.

Besides, if she and the Doctor do turn out to have a Time Baby, Alex Kingston really ought to be there at the discovery. 🙂

 

[Anonymous @]

@bluesqueakpip – jeepers, I’m slow.  ‘Music room at the heart of the house’ … River Song.

Besides, if she and the Doctor do turn out to have a Time Baby, Alex Kingston really ought to be there at the discovery.

Actually, Alex really ought to be there at the inception.  😆

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@Shazzbot – I’m pretty convinced that she already has been… 😆

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@Shazzbot @bluesqueakpip

Or the conception, even (although probably we shouldn’t see that!)

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@blenkinsopthebrave

The complete voice-over:

I’ve been running all my lives. Through time and space. Every second of every minute of every day for over nine hundred years. I’ve fought for peace in a universe at war. Now the time has come to face the choices I have made in the name of The Doctor. Our future depends on one single moment in one impossible day. The day I’ve been running from all my life. The Day of The Doctor.

Initial thoughts: I’ve concentrated a lot on Clara for Series 7B, so I’d note that her image comes at the episode title ‘The Name of The Doctor.’  This could simply be that she’s the current Companion, so her image comes at the moment the trailer moves from ‘past’ to ‘present’. However, secondly, this is the Impossible Day, and she’s the Impossible Girl – so there’s some hint of a connection between Day and Girl.

Oh, and Sarah Jane Smith suddenly turns into Clara. Has anyone spotted any other Companions besides Sarah-Jane, K9 and Clara?

Other thoughts: past, present and future are all referenced.

[CraigNixon @craignixon]

Dunno, but theres a face reflected in the globe just before you see Clara?

 

And just before DT there is a character with his back to you wearing braces?

 

Capn Jack?

[Anonymous @]

At 00:36 – 00:37 it looks like a Weeping Angel is getting Sylvester McCoy …

Also, what’s with all the sonics floating around?  Is this related to the Hurt Doctor’s ammo belt?

The fact that bits are floating around through the air in all scenes, does this indicate time has been slowed down to almost nothing?  Is this why the day is ‘impossible’ – because it lasts forever?

[Anonymous @]

@craignixon – you’re right about the face in the globe, it’s at 00:32.  Can’t discern who it is though (it’s definitely not Clara’s reflection).

I’m wondering if the amount of time each Doctor appears is relative to their screen time.  For example, there’s quite a long time (relatively speaking, in a 1:01 trailer!) showing Tom Baker.  Except, Troughton is only briefly framed in that archway and he was Doctor as long as Hartnell and Pertwee.  Hmm, already I’m not liking that theory.

(PS: @craignixon – if it’s on the BBC site, it’s not considered a spoiler. That, and the Radio Times, are sources which can be referred to as news. Any other sites, though, you should take a considered view of the content you’d like to post.)

[Anonymous @]

@bluesqueakpip @craignixon @Shazzbot

The face reflected in the globe looks to me like Sarah Jane again. Although it’s a bit blurred, the eye make-up is similar.

Rose is also in the trailer. She’s wearing a pink jacket and has her back turned to the camera and is standing between a AG Who Dalek and an Ood.

We know Rose is returning so is there a reason why only Sarah Jane, K9, Rose and Clara are depicted? Maybe SJ and K9 appear in a flash back.

And why is Doc2 just a shadow figure?

[Hudsey @hudsey]

The doctor talks about 900 years being his age. I thought in a Matt smith episode he had aged to older than that? Wasn’t that mentioned?

[Pufferfish @pufferfish]

Hello! Have to agree with the poster up-thread who thinks Hurt Doc is Doctor (Prisoner) Zero – it means the number order of Doctors doesn’t change (bypassing a merchandising crisis) and suggests 11 massively misdirected the Atraxi in The Eleventh Hour. But did he really? Zero is and isn’t ‘The Doctor’ as we know him right now, so all 11 did was convince the Atraxi that the eeevil shape-shifting monster was worth capturing, and the other alien presence they detected on Earth (11) was not worth capturing.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Still jumping up and down this morning!

@wolfweed – “…some will have watched it 180 times...” Whatever do you mean?!!  (Nice to see the trailer notching up the numbers on YouTube – 400k and 320k on the 2 official YouTubes)

@bluesqueakpip Thanks for copying out the text – really helpful, and I agree on your pick-up of “impossible”

The point @blenkinsopthebrave mentioned – At the beginning he says “all my lives”  but at the end he says “life” – maybe just to attract the audience’s attetnion, but…

@craignixon I wondered about the character just before we get to Tennant but can’t make out who it is. It’s not John Hurt is it?

@fatmaninabox – well done on the Rose spot and good question about Dr 2, although Drs3, 6 and 7 get a very brief glimpse also – who’s that in the globe with Dr 3?

@hudsey – he says he’s been doing this for “over 900 years” so assuming he wasn’t 0 years old when he started, that still fits.  Interesting choice of number tho.

Little squee at Bessie and Dr4’s jelly babies

Re companions – no River…? 🙁

Anyone spot any signs of timelords?

@Shazzbot – yes indeed – LOTS of sonics, although they seem to be particularly associated with Matt (who’s the only one who moves/speaks). I like to think it’s a reply to those who moan aboout its overuse 🙂 .    I still think this looks like an explosion stopped in time.  And LOTS of daleks.  Time War?

 

 

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

Only got a chance to watch the trailer today, and now I’ve watched it more than a few times (many thanks to @wolfweed for posting the link).

I agree that it’s obviously composed for 3-D, and while I have no desire to watch the special in that format, I have a suspicion that this “swim” through the Doctors times will probably look astonishing on a big screen.

To sum it up though: Bloody marvellous. Love the attention to detail. It’s like a temporal “Where’s Wally” in that if you focus too long on one detail, you miss about 20 others. Lots of fanboy moments for me, especially with the Key to Time, D-84!!!, and what I think was Pertwee and the Master fencing. Lovely use of Elizabeth Sladen – the one companion who truly bridges the divide between the BG and AG years. Great transition to Clara – still with leaf in place as well.

If I got one “sense” from this though it was a case of time being jumbled to a certain extent – Like The Wedding of River Song, with aspects of different eras impinging onto each other, starting really with the shot of the Fez as we pan into the First Doctor. The use of the leaf for Clara, with the central idea of chaos theory it represents just seem to add to this.

Just genuinely exciting to see.

[janetteB @janetteb]

As I remarked in the News thread the trailer does seem to point to the story being about both Doctor Zero and the present incarnation with flashes of all those inbetween, all caught up with the time war so I think that @htpbdet might be close to the mark with his theory. I think it highly unlikely however that there will be any connection between Doctor Zero and prisoner zero but I am usually wrong so maybe there is.

We are currently debating here as to whether to see the special in 3d, then return home for the long expected party and a repeat viewing or just watch at home over fish fingers and custard..

Cheers

Janette

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Going back to the “one moment in one impossible day” – what if the last 50 years has been the Doctor taking a “time out” from that “one impossible day?  The moment happens – the Doctor skips off in the TARDIS for a few hundred years, goes through a few regenerations, but now, facing the end of his (current?) regen cycle, he’s out of time so to speak, and has to go back and sort out “the moment”.  The ultimate in procrastination!

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@janetteb

Whatever you decide to do – make it an event to remember.  IF I can find a cinema that’s showing it, AND can get tickets, the cinema gets my vote (with detailed rewatch after). Or, presuming there’s a run in cinemas, might catch the film later.  3D doesn’t bother me, but big screen and cinema sound get thumbs up.

[janetteB @janetteb]

And he locked Gallifrey up in a time lock just to avoid returning and facing up to whatever it is he is running from.. Maybe even started the time war as a diversion or an excuse… Now that does border on evil.

And I thought I had a problem with procrastination.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @janetteb]

@scaryb I think the boys will decide on the 3D as long as they get English jelly babies which I am told are far superior to the Aussie ones. I must admit that I rather like the idea of seeing Dr Who in a cinema and though I am not a fan of 3d I think it will have a very different feel which will be interesting and we can always watch it the “proper” way afterwards.

Cheers

Janette

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@scaryb ‘The Moment’ is the term used in End of Time pt 2 to refer to whatever The Doctor uses to end the Time War. BTW, are you still be in London on the Saturday night, or will you be back up in Scotland?

@htpbdet‘s idea is looking more and more likely; given that Rassillon in The End of Time was able to send a message back in time that effectively created The Master, it’s possible that this story is about the origin of ‘The Doctor’. Which, in a wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey way, was due to an event that happened long afterwards.

The ‘bullet time’ frozen items suggest Journey to The Centre otTARDIS. The exploding engine that the TARDIS froze in time to protect her passengers.

[Anonymous @]

Re Sarah Jane – @phaseshift – “Lovely use of Elizabeth Sladen – the one companion who truly bridges the divide between the BG and AG years.”

Considering how prominent she is in this trailer [albeit obviously being portrayed by another actress], does that indicate that she might have a role in the 50th?  As you say, she’s a portal for AG Who fans back to BG Who.  And as you pointed out, there’s a transition from SJ to Clara in this trailer, and we know now that Clara has been back in the Doctor’s timestream doing goodness-knows-what.  Perhaps they met?

@scaryb – “What if the last 50 years has been the Doctor taking a ‘time out’ from that ‘one impossible day’? … The ultimate in procrastination!”

@janetteb – “And he locked Gallifrey up in a time lock just to avoid returning and facing up to whatever it is he is running from … Maybe even started the time war as a diversion or an excuse”

Oh, yes.  😀  I’m liking the way you two are thinking.  I’m getting more convinced that the 50th will tell us exactly why the Doctor ran away from Gallifrey (as opposed to what we’ve learnt so far:  that he found their non-intervention policies stifling and solipsistic).

 

[geoffers @geoffers]

hello, all!

new member here, sorry to drop in so suddenly. (thanks to craig, for sorting my login problems a few days back.) i will endeavour to properly introduce myself later, but for now i just wanted to say 1) hello!, and 2) i think the reflection in the globe is susan…

i could be wrong.

anyway, what a spectacular trailer! well worth the wait…

 

cheers from america,

jeff

a.k.a. ‘geoffers’

 

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@janetteb

And he locked Gallifrey up in a time lock just to avoid returning and facing up to whatever it is he is running from.. Maybe even started the time war as a diversion or an excuse… Now that does border on evil.

😀

Or at least till he could find a way of dealing with/sorting it.  Maybe he’s trying to avoid his Timelord final exams till he’s done the swotting for them 😉

@bluesqueakpip @htpbdet (and the MIA @juniperfish) You’ve all been suggesting a “rebirth” (or a return to #1) of some sort for a while, and I agree that we’re looking at some sort of time paradox resolution.  And a re-set. 😀

(@Bluesqueakpip Yes, I decided to take my chances in London on Sat, go back on Sun.  Worst case, I’ve got a TV in the hotel room, but hopefully can find something more exciting)

 

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

http://www.combom.co.uk/2013/10/doctor-who-50th-anniversary-celebratory_20.html

The most comprehensive catalogue of objects from the Fifty Years Trail so far…

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

@shazzbot

[albeit obviously being portrayed by another actress]

You think? To me that was pretty clearly the young Elisabeth (can’t believe I used a z last time – blame fanboy excitement) from the time she was partnered up with Pertwee and Baker. Like a lot of the early shots (you can really tell with Hartnell), these a CGI compositions. You can’t really upscale some of the old material to true cinema HD. Given the limitations, I actually like what they did here.

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

Also possibly featured in the Fifty years trail are an Adipose, the 500 year diary & maybe the brain of Morbius…

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Hello @geoffers. Agree that the reflection in the globe is Susan. The juxtaposition with Clara and her leaf revives my hope that it will turn out that Clara is daughter of the Doctor and River, and mother of Susan. Talking of River, she is notable by her absence in the mini trailer.

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

http://news.drwho-online.co.uk/50th-Anniversary-Trailer-Tonight-Promo-Image.aspx
Anaglyph 3-D version of the Fifty Years Trail. (You need specs – ask the 10th Dr – & you can also see voidstuff!)

[ScaryB @scaryb]

I agree with @phaseshift that it looks like the proper ES (from 70s era). But the reflection could be Susan (Carole Ann Ford). Why is Pertwee in a globe anyway? Fortune teller’s globe or a snowglobe maybe? (I’m assuming he’s fencing the Master, but I can’t see it as Delgado)

And thanks @wolfweed for that rather awesome link! Notice they’ve got a spot on Amy (just behind Eccleston).

Now… why have they chosen the particular things they have? Some of them are obvious re their close association with particular Doctors, but there are for example 2 or 3 refs to the key to time, there’s a LOT of daleks… and no Zygons. Unless they’re disguised of course 😉

PS Youtube official accounts combined have now passed 1m views. In under 24 hours.  That’s approaching Miley Cyrus rates 😉

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@Shazzbot and @phaseshift – yes, I thought it was obviously the young Elisabeth Sladen – from the Pertwee era, I thought, as she’s looking at the Pertwee Doctor sword fighting the Master.

Yes, she could well be there as the BG Companion who also became part of the AG Whoniverse – she links old and new, and is likely to be the one BG Companion that the youngsters know well.

What’s making me wonder is that Sarah Jane, as I said, morphs into Clara – she’s looking at the crystal ball, we pull into the scene, we pull out of the scene – and it’s Clara. Clara, who is named after Elisabeth Clara Sladen. And Clara’s reflection is – Sarah Jane Smith.

I still think ‘the woman in the shop’ was Sarah Jane Smith, still alive in the Whoniverse. That would mean, presumably, that there is some way that Sarah Jane is still part of the current story – and that’s the other reason she’s in the trailer.

@scaryb – I’m inclining to a 3D viewing if possible, as well. Definitely going to record the episode of course, but I agree with @janetteb that the possibilities of 3D are looking interesting.

 

 

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

I’m off to check An Unearthly Child to see if John Hurt played the Policeman…

[Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013]

It was Reg Cranfield

 

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0562828/fullcredits/cast

 

 

[geoffers @geoffers]

@wolfweed – thanks for the link to that breakdown of all the references. i was just about to ask what the red sphere is, that davison is throwing (and which passes by smith after he grabs his sonic). but what is the significance of “no more,” spray-painted on the girder? which doctor was that, tennant? (i’m only familiar with AG who, and my memory isn’t quite what it used to be…)

geoffers

[geoffers @geoffers]

@blenkinsopthebrave – no river, and no rory, either? though i’ve only watched it about 20 times, so far… 🙂

geoffers

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

@geoffers – As far as I’m aware, ‘NO MORE’ has not featured in the show… yet. The general assumption is that it relates to The Time War.

[chickenelly @chickenelly]

Hurrah at last a trailer of some sort!

Agree with others that it’s no wonder it took so long to produce, it was fantastic.  It really needs to be seen on a large screen, not in a tiny window on a laptop (mine is playing up, hence tiny window).  Thankfully @wolfweed links has identified the Where’s Wally elements for me, ta.

[chickenelly @chickenelly]

Just watched it again, you know for research, and is Matt wearing his new wig?

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

@chickenelly – Probably, I think his bit was shot around filming for the Chrimbo special.

@bluesqueakpip

I thought it was obviously the young Elisabeth Sladen – from the Pertwee era, I thought

I think you’re right. They even got her  massive 70s collar – the “glider”.

Come fly with me……

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@bluesqueakpip

And Clara’s reflection is – Sarah Jane Smith

Not convinced about that, sorry; I’m more with @blenkinsopthebrave that it’s Susan. Hard to tell with the globe distorting the reflection, but it looks as if the haircut is much shorter than either Clara’s or  S-J’s.  Which leads to his bonkers theory that Clara is daughter of the Doctor and River, and mother of Susan.

But yes, no River 😥

 

@chickenelly I reckon it’s the wig, but opinion seems to be divided. But maybe he’s just having a bad hair day 😉

Has anyone worked out who the last figure before Tennant is? (Capt Jack or John Hurt, or…?)

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@scaryb – I’m now wondering if Sara Jane’s reflection has been morphed with Susan’s. Because you’re right, it does have very much a look of Susan – but with hints of Sara Jane.

[Anonymous @]

here is my theory.john hurt is a doctor between 8th and 9th,in the time war, john hurts doctor somehow managed to “end”(prevent universe of ending) the time war by creating a “moment” ,one never ending day of war.kovarian said bitter never ending war.the trenzelor is that moment of never ending war,and trenzelore is the real reality the real universe,and tennants and smiths adventures go on in a bubble universe (like in wedding of river song),or tenant and smith are mannipulated by hurts doctor in somehow false reality.matt smith said paintings.makes seanse to team up tenannt and smith in  that kind of  an episode.the silence will fall at the fall of the eleventh,so matt smith is the last doctor(tennant regenerated twice) who at the end of his life returns to trenzelore to face the never ending war ,if he is defeated the universe will go on as if  he never existed,and off course in the end the doctors find the way to end the war and save the day,maybe the time lords give him extra regenerations.     second theory-  john hurt is the doctor from the future,maybe an evil last regeneration valyear,who created the moment in time war like in my first theory

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@Chickenelly- ‘of some sort’. Accidentally got on the channel just before it was broadcast, my boyfriend turned to me and said ‘oh, what’s that?’, I said, ‘it’s a trailer without footage from the actual episode, and well played’. It’s lovely. I think he lost interest after that, though he did turn around and grin at me when the lost episodes were announced, which, since he’s not a fan, was adorable.

@Bluesqueakpip- thank you for the transcript. ‘face the choices I have made in the name of the Doctor’. Interesting. He says that he has fought for peace.  Is that what sets Hurt ‘Doctor’ aside? Just saw the clip on Watch of Four not destroying the Daleks, which reminded me of Elevens agony of guilt over that, over not committing genocide/’killing Hitler’ on a planetary scale, and of his agreement with HurtDoctor that what he did was without choice, and in the name of peace and sanity.

[Craig @craig Emperor]

@d12345 Thank you so much for fulfilling your promise! Love your theory. Me, I’m still hanging on to a Doctor Zero theory, but I like your thinking.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

1 MILLION views and still going strong!!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hRy2N2CMhQ

 

[janetteB @janetteb]

I have now watched the trailer several times. One thing I noted which has not been commented on is the Himalayan background early on; a possible reference to the Abominable Snowman story which of course features the G.I? I suspect that the man with his back to us in front of Tennant is the Hurt Doctor which means that all the Doctors are featured. I assume also that the floating soldier in the junk yard is a reference to U.N.I.T. I am certain that it is the Master in the globe with Pertwee. Sarah Jane might be featured as the best representative of  B.G. companions as she is the one to have featured in AG Who but it also increases the probability that it was she who gave Clara the phone number. R.S. is notable for her absence. If she has been omitted from the 50th special she had better show up in the Christmas special or there will be tantrams…

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @janetteb]

Watched again with my youngest and found a lot of detail that I previously missed. We have been debating the reflection in the globe. He thinks it is Sarah Jane. In slide 17 of the image breakdown on the “combom” link from our wonderful @wolfweed it looks rather like Susan with short hair swept aside across the forehead, so I’m still undecided. (Rather hoping it is Susan as Sarah is featured already.) I am certain that the man facing Tennant Dr is the Hurt Dr sans the coat. He is wearing an ammo belt and scruffy clothing, definitely not Jack’s style.

Cheers

Janette

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@janetteb

Nice spots.  I’m with you on the “possibly Susan” – the hairstyle of the reflection doesn’t match either Clara’s, or Sarah Jane’s, but it could be the reflection/distortion on the suface of the globe (is that a snow globe – maybe a GI ref? (Snowmen)). If the figure before Tennant is HurtDr it explains why we don’t see his face – the only “doctor” not to be facing us. And it puts him firmly at the end rather than the beginning (although they’re not all exactly in order eg 7, 5 then 6).

I’m convinced that the last 50 years have taken place in a time-out from 1 day, maybe as he figures out how to resolve the problem that made him scoot off in the first place eg like Impossible Astronaut/series 6 scenario .  11 lives in a day

And sorry if I come across as a numbers-nerd – but the viewing figs on youTube are seriously impressive – there are 2 official channels and between them they now have 2.5 million views! Since Saturday evening.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@janetteb re River –

If she has been omitted from the 50th special she had better show up in the Christmas special or there will be tantrams…

Haha. Exactly 🙂

[CraigNixon @craignixon]

Can’t view that list.

But does anyone know what the Spider thing on the rocks on the left hand side (Best seen as you slide past the orb I think) is?

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Update on the 11 lives in a day theory –

Or it’s the last 3 regenerations in a day, with HurtDr (as either aged 8 or between 8 and 9) doing the thing that now needs resolved. Which keeps it all AG, doesn’t tamper with the earlier history. Unless HurtDr is, as @htpbdet suggested, Doctor Zero – above still applies but in timey wimey very wibbly wobbly way.

Note the similarities between HurtDr’s “in the name of peace and sanity” (NotD) and Matt’s voiceover in the trailer: “I’ve fought for peace in a universe at war“.

@juniperfish Glad you like my new look 🙂 In honour of the lost-but-now-found Troughton episodes.  Are you excited about those?

@craignixon Re the spider-thing – I believe it’s the Racnoss (got that from one of @wolfweed‘s links (sterling service as ever, thank you))

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