Last Christmas

Home Forums Episodes The Twelfth Doctor Last Christmas

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  • #37251
    Spider @spider

    @cubefox

    I guess thanks to you I will enjoy watching the next Season more than I would have without reading another persons thoughts. (:

    What you say here pretty much sums up what I’ve found with this forum and all the brilliant people on it. The discussions, the debates always bring up something I hadn’t noticed in an episode, or a different point of view or a different way of looking at something. Ok, we don’t always agree with each other – but that’s part of the fun and indeed the point! 🙂

    If you haven’t done so already I definitely recommend going back and watching series 8 after reading the comments on each of the episodes in the forums. I’ve found that going back to the early episodes and watching them knowing how the Christmas episode goes does change my perspective on some of the episodes.

    (\(\;;/)/)

    #37252
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @spider  @cubefox

    I too felt during Series 7b that I had preferred the “Claricles” (particularly Victorian Clara) to the real Clara. I didn’t mind her, but at the same time I only really warmed up to her in Day of the Doctor (post-Impossible Girl, I guess). Although I haven’t always liked her behaviour in Series 8, I actually found her arc more interesting than the impossible girl mystery, which felt forced to me a lot of the time.

    It’s a point that none of Tennant’s companions stayed as long as Amy or Clara; maybe because those actors were ready to leave? I confess I never longed for more of Rose or Martha, not because of any dislike of the characters but more because of the treatment they received in the story arc. Sometimes I think a companion can stay too long; I felt that way at times about Amy during series 7a.

    I think that the change of Doctors has indeed given Clara new life. I am enjoying her now, but I confess I wouldn’t mind seeing her leave after one more series, so we could see Capaldi’s Doc with a different type of companion!

    #37257
    ichabod @ichabod

    @arbutus

    Agree on Clara — I left when all the Clara/DocSmith was going on, looked in from time to time and couldn’t work up any enthusiasm — I looked at her and didn’t see any there there, if you know what I mean.  So I was pretty unsure of how the heck they were going to get her to “measure up” to CapDoc in a meaningful way, but boy, that has worked out well, and I’m glad she’s staying on.  I just couldn’t get a grip on her at all in Season 7, but the other night stumbled on the interview Jenna Coleman did at a Con in Auckland, and she just blew my socks off — not just beautiful, but smart as a whip, wonderfully articulate, and very good at interacting with the audience.  I’m won over, and judging by that session all this young woman needed was better writing of her part, and Capaldi to work with.

    A new companion would be fine too, but not til they give “Clara” a proper send-off; I get the distinct impression that she wasn’t all that well done-by in earlier seasons, and now she deserves plenty of room to go for it in full flash-mode before stepping aside for some one else.  I don’t think of “chemistry” with the two of them (which suggests rom-com to me, and that’s not what I see going on any more in the Tardis, but more like sparky electrical charges and zig-zags all over the place — neat!

     

    #37267
    Anonymous @

    I Agree about clara i think she great on doctor who now she really starting to act like the doctor but still stay true to her self . But i also feel as tho her story is starting to come to and end i mean unless they come up with more like they did for amy and stuff but i feel as tho it time to let her pass the torch to a new companion. Clara is a great person but im ready for a change not just for her but for the doctor and his tardis among other thing so hopefully after this new season or ever half way like they did wth clara thing will change unless steven moffat has a problem with it

     

    P.S Also want people opinion who your fave companion mines is martha jones what yours?

    #37817
    MoNdas @mondas

    Hello fans yes ive got  a blog but its currently not on here becuse it hasto be on nother site for a competion in my core classto make a blog about anyhting adnd get the most views on your blog so ive written it on the new generation fans not knowing much about classic doctor who so yes plese check that out hope you enjoy it and if you want take the poll for a spin so please link below its fun sort of maybe im not to sure=D

    http://who5.weebly.com/

    #37818
    Anonymous @

    @mondas your ‘blog’ is an affront to many viewers & readers. You state that the last special was poor and yet you don’t explain why. This is a type of trolling disguised as a blog.  The idea that new viewers know little or nothing about old Who is also wrong.

    So, no, I didn’t enjoy it… I couldn’t understand some of it -a grammar upkeep helps.

    #37822
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @mondas

    Helpful hint: I would never, ever, go to a blog where the invitation is written as poorly as yours is.

    Blogs are there to be read. An invitation with one long, stream-of-consciousness sentence with rotten typing and no punctuation suggests (strongly) that I won’t be able to read that person’s blog.

    So I won’t bother to click on the link.

    Invitations should be fun, inviting – and easy to read.

    #37941
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Love the way Peter Capaldi pronounces ‘FaceHuggerzzzzzzzzzzz’….
    z

    Missing youse all…

    W

    #37943
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @wolfweed

    You’re back!!!!!!!!

    😀 😀 😀

    *does the Yeti dance of joy and spills sparkly glitter all over the sofa*

    😳

    Hope the trans-dimensional interface remains stable for longer this time 😉

     

    #37944
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Sorry, @scaryb – I’m still just a Data Ghost mumbling from the Library and the last light is blinking…
    I hope it doesn’t take too many hours to hoover that glitter(!)
    I’ll keep in touch now and again once I’ve been uploaded to CAL…
    One day.. One day…..
    z
    Pic by Rachel Stott

    #37956
    janetteB @janetteb

    I was excited when I saw @wolfweed‘s name in recent posts. I jumped in the return of our favourite tumbleweed but my excitement was somewhat dashed to hear that it not a full return. We miss you Wolfweed. Do keep in touch.

    Cheers

    Janette

     

     

    #39672
    alicevontardis @alicevontardis

    You know, Amelia Pond prayed to Santa for a policeman to come inspect the crack in her wall – and suddenly a policebox lands in her backyard.

     

    I’m sorry if someone mentioned it earlier, I didn’t read all the post. 

    #39683
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    My idea is that many of the monsters in the Dr Who universe with unexplained origins such as Dream Crabs, or Weeping Angels, are going to soon have a horrifying one:  They are Time Lords, horribly mangled because they tried to take what they did not have the right to take.

    I speculate the Doctor is being manipulated to help the Time Lords research how to replace various humans throughout Earth’s timestream.  The companions are an experiment in seeing how humans can be augmented to eventually be compatible as hosts for Time Lords.  I predict that the Doctor will learn that Gallifrey is indeed permanently trapped in a different dimension, somewhat similar to Omega, and the only way for the Time Lords to escape is for their information to be uploaded back to this universe, and for their information to be used in new cloned bodies.

    Storywise it has been shown the Time Lords can never openly return or it would start another Time War.  They must hide therefore within some population.  What better than Earth?  Also the return of Gallifrey would almost revert the Doctor back to being a naughty teenager defying the petty bureaucrats running his old home town, something I doubt anyone wants.

    Clara next season according to the end of Last Christmas will be the Magician’s Apprentice.  This is one more step on the Time Lords plan to test humans for eventual replacement.

    I think we have also seen what the Doctor’s solution would be to the Time Lords’ problem.  Time travel can also occur in dreams.  He would advise them I think to become benevolent guardian angels who only interfere to help and never go too far.  Some will agree to this.  Others will not and try to force their way to prey on humans.  Those will have some horrible accident happen and they will become monsters like Dream Crabs and Weeping Angels.

     

     

     

    #40324
    alicevontardis @alicevontardis

    “Rose: Look at you, beaming away like you’re Father Christmas!
    The Doctor: Who says I’m not, red-bicycle-when-you-were-twelve?
    Rose: [shocked] What?
    The Doctor: And everybody lives, Rose! Everybody lives! I need more days like this! Go on, ask me anything; I’m on fire!”

     

    I always thought maybe Santa in that episode was the Doctor somehow.. you know, like the Dream Lord in “Amy’s choice”?

    #41047
    Kharis @kharis

    @jphamlore Agree about the Weeping Angels, but I had never thought the Dream Crabs might also come from the same origin. That will give me something to chew on.  Your theory is very interesting.  I have always been suspicious that the Time Lords created humans, or that Time Lords were just engineered humans from a lost intellectual civilization like Atlantis.

     

    #41228
    WibblyWobbly @wibblywobbly

    How does Scaroth fit in to the theory? He was the enemy in City of Death that claimed he had taught the humans all their technology. And I’m pretty sure the radiation from his ship caused the goo in some pond to become alive which is what started life on Earth.

    #41229
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    @wibblywobbly: As Missy said to the Doctor, Time Lords can go up and down the time line better than anyone, arguably including Scaroth’s race.  That is after all why they are the Time Lords.

    Isn’t it interesting the Doctor’s Tardis is always where he needs to be to thwart beings such as Scaroth?

    #41486
    WibblyWobbly @wibblywobbly

    @jphamlore Sorry for getting back so late. I’m only a part time forumer. Great point. I also really like the theory about weeping angels being Time Lords. As if maybe they’re trying to get back into this universe from where the Doctor stuck them and they need all the time fuel or -insert your own Doctor Who jargon- to try to break  back in. That would be an interesting twist in the tale.

    #42069
    Anonymous @

    Just to clear things up for myself and others, what are the remaining unanswered questions/unresolved plot points prior to the beginning of series 9 that we should be watching out for?

    (Erring on the safe side of spoilers)
    – Where is Gallifrey/how can it be reached or saved?
    – How did Missy (apparently) return from Gallifrey and does she actually know where it is/hoe to get back?
    – Is Missy dead?
    – Who is Orson Pink?
    – How did the TARDIS travel to the Doctor’s childhood on Gallifrey?
    – Why is the Twelfth Doctor’s face the same as that Roman?

    Anything else?

    #42077
    alicevontardis @alicevontardis

    I could think of two more:

    – How are/were Clara and River connected?

    – Was Santa Claus real, and if yes, who is he?

    #42081
    Anonymous @

    @alicevontardis @supernumerary

    In the Day of the Doctor after Smithy meets The Great Curator, he hears Tom say “you’ll go back and revisit you’re old faces and those important to you.”

    To me, that covers “the Roman”, as it were

    Santa was in the dream state with the characters as it was Christmas. There was a Satsuma indicating that he was/is real, after all. That is never going to be ‘answered’ – it was Christmas and Christmas is about kiddies; we’re not going to have a definite answer on that one!

    Missy is def. still alive.

    The Tardis connected to the Doctor and thus landed in the ‘barn’. The Doctor is joined to the Tardis in ways we don’t yet fully comprehend. There was the bang on the head leading to a dream state and then the barn during which the Tardis may have picked up on what was going thru the Doctors’ minds.

    Gallifrey is still safe, in a pocket universe but certain doctors don’t know they ‘saved it’ in a ‘cup-a-soup.’ Yes, naughty Missy might know where it is. Do we want to meet any TLs just yet? I think not!

    “I’m going home, the long way round” says Smithy.

    That’s all I can answer, I’m afraid.

    Kindest, puro

    #42084
    Missy @missy

    @puro

    I think that “Listen’ is one of the best episodes yet. Fascinating to realise that some of the Doctor’s fears,
    were explained to him by Clara when he was a child.
    I can still feel the goose pimples which broke out on my arms, when she heard the man say that the boy crying in the bed would never make a Time Lord, and Clara’s wide eyed comprehension of where she was and who the boy was. Classic.
    The one thing which puzzles me, is the plastic soldier Dan? Given to Rupert in the Home by Clara, returned to her by Orson Pink as an heirloom. She then leaves it with the young Doctor in the barn?
    Enigmatic? Or is it me?

    Missy

    #42085
    Mudlark @mudlark

    @missy    If it helps, the question of the toy soldier and its trajectory through time and space came up again recently in a discussion on the Death in Heaven thread, with @janetteb and myself offering different theories.  Janette’s explanation was the more elaborate and entertaining; mine a more boringly straightforward loop, and probably neither is entirely correct because we are still missing at least one crucial item of information; namely the precise relationship between Orson Pink and Danny.  All may become clear if/when Moffat provides that information – and I think it unlikely that he would leave such a tantalising thread dangling   🙂

    #42086
    janetteB @janetteb

    @mudlark I am flattered. thank you. I am glad my explanation is entertaining because it almost certainly isn’t correct. I trust S.M to deliver something that is simple, entertaining and staring us in the face and rule 1 is, none of us will have thought of it. But at least now that I have formulated my own solution to the problem of the toy soldier I am happy. i really did devote many spare waking and sleeping hours to the problem. There was more than one night when I woke having been dreaming about it and could not recall my dream solution. And talking of dreams…

    funny that this episode should be discussed today as R.1 and I watched it this morning. I can’t add anything to the analysis but as the thread is active I cannot resist saying just how brilliant an episode it is. Always when I re watch I catch details that I missed on first watch, and this is a beautifully structured story or rather a babushka doll set of stories. I love the dream within a dream concept. Interestingly the S/O and I were discussing the dream within a dream concept at our local earlier tonight. He had never had the wake up and wonder why the alarm won’t shut up kind of dream. I have reached the point of pulverising the alarm clock before realising that I am still asleep.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #42091
    Anonymous @

    Hello people of earth. I am the Consulting Doctor and new to this forum. I’m still figuring out how everything works around here. I’ll save the introduction of myself until I have found a better place to put it, but for now there is something I have to say about the episode Last Christmas.

    This probably has been said already, but I didn’t bother checking so here is a theory of mine.  In Last Christmas, Clara is in the dream so long that by the time the Doctor finds her she is really old. You later find out that this is, like most of the episode, just another dream, but there is something that I noticed. The Doctor finds and rescues Clara for the last time and she asks him if she is young again. The Doctor beautifully says that he wouldn’t know because she always looks young to him, and he can’t tell the difference.  Clara looks at herself in the mirror and sees if she is back to normal, but you never actually see what she sees in the mirror.  My theory is that she could still be old, and the Doctor just can’t see it yet.

    Now that I have seen what Season 9 is going to be like, I realize that this theory is too ridiculous to be real.  She is obviously young through the whole season, but this is just an interesting possibility I thought of when I first saw the episode last year.

     

    #42097
    Anonymous @

    @Theconsultingdoctor

    Are you a ‘Mr’ then? 🙂

    Welcome to the Forum. Lovely thought because as we know, the Doctor always says she looks older than she is -to us, at any rate.

    Thing is, I suppose we saw her old thru our eyes and then we saw her young -through our eyes, therefore she was definitely young. We must rely on the camera to deliver our interpretations -we have to trust it, otherwise what else do we have.

    Lovely though! 🙂

    #42099
    Anonymous @

    @missy

    nothing about time travel is enigmatic, nor is Moffat engaged in playing with us….. Usually 🙂

    I know: frustrating. I think  @mudlark and @janetteb delivered some finely crafted ideas about the toy’s movement thru time and space  -both very creative people.

    I’m still at the grunting “huh?” stage.

    #42102
    Anonymous @

    @purofilion With regards to your post in reply to me, I had meant something more along the lines of ‘what plot points haven’t been resolved in-show’, rather than ‘what are the forum’s current theories on these plot points’, accurate though many of them are likely to be. Like with Gallifrey appearing to be accessible now (Listen), that hasn’t technically been spelt out in-show, and there could be other explanations (though probably not). And I wasn’t sure if Missy’s status constituted a spoiler. But thanks regardless.

    Anyway, I’ve been rewatching this series as they’re played nightly on the ABC, and I’m looking forward to getting to this episode again.

    #42106
    Anonymous @

    @supernumerary

    Yes, I think my answers were just my own “and have no affiliation with the forum” as there are many members with greater understanding than I”  🙂

    Are you also from Oz? My incredibly deductive mind noticed you wrote “ABC”. Gosh, they call me smart for a reason! 🙂

    Though, I assume you could also be from the US or Canada?  Yes, there are many plot points not yet fulfilled though I fear some may not be completed or explained this season (though I certainly hope they are!)

    Kindest, PuroforFilion

    #42109
    Anonymous @

    @purofilion Yep, I’m Australian. I’ve been reading this forum for a while now, prior to participating- seems like a pretty strong contingent of Aussies, as things go.

    #42110
    janetteB @janetteb

    @supernumerary Hi and welcome. I think all your questions have been discussed in great length at various times and in various threads. If you have an enormous amount of free time at your disposal I would recommend reading through but given how we do tend to talk that is a daunting task.

    As to any more unanswered plot points I can’t think of any at the moment other than to add to the question of who Orson Pink is “and how did he get the toy soldier?” which is one that I have been dwelling on ever since watching “Listen”. (Even to the absurd degree of dreaming about it.)

    @Purofilion I suspect that Moffat will keep some plot threads running to the end of his tenure and I am guessing that this next series will throw up more questions than it answers. Moffat likes to keep us bonkers theorists on our proverbial toes. I have a mental image of him sitting at his desktop reading our discussions and laughing very loudly.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #42112
    Anonymous @

    @janetteb indeed he does!

    I think that some questions can be open ended -like my favourite ‘Primer”  -questions are left open for us to answer ourselves at some future (or past) point.

    @supernumerary

    there are a lot of excellent threads on various places which discuss the issues brought about in Listen,  Dark Water and Last Christmas. I remember reading solidly for 2 weeks (lurking) before I joined. Awesome forum with some tremendous minds from all walks of life.

    The level of debate about Odin, mythical heroes, Gretchen, Wagner, Tristan and Isolde and bronze age artefacts is wonderful. Also, people here are well mannered and the “passing snippy comment” we can read on YouTube is discouraged. But rarely do we attract those ‘types’.

    You’ll love it here: huge fun even between series. The rewatch of Before Gap Who is also interesting as are the comments and Blogs on Buffy, Angel and Fan Fic Doctor Who by our own @denvaldron

    Kindest, puro.

    #42113
    Missy @missy

    @mudlark @puro

    Thanks to both of you.

    #42125
    Mudlark @mudlark

    @supernumerary   The questions concerning the accessibility/non-accessibility of Gallifrey which were raised in Listen and in Time of the Doctor have not been answered explicitly in subsequent episodes, but I’m not sure that there is really any mystery.  My understanding, for what it is worth, is that since the removal of the time lock* Gallifrey  is once again accessible at any point before the time war.  Clara discovered this by accident in Listen, but the Doctor apparently does not realise it – or he does realise it  but has no wish to revisit it in the past.  Since Gallifrey was removed to a pocket universe or separate dimension it is inaccessible, although communication was possible through the rift in our universe which we saw in Time of the Doctor.  Missy teased the Doctor by telling him that it is where it always was – which, if she wasn’t lying outright, might mean that it occupied the same special coordinates in a separate or alternative universe.

    *or perhaps, more accurately, since the events chronicled in Day of the Doctor which meant that Gallifrey was not destroyed and therefore the time lock was never established

    #42126
    Mudlark @mudlark

    Oops!  ‘special coordinates’ in the above should read spatial coordinates.  That’s what comes of writing before caffeine intake has been sufficient to enable full brain function.

    #42169
    Anonymous @

    @purofilion @janetteb @mudlark
    Thanks all.

    #49511
    winston @winston

    Just finished rewatching this for Christmas and really enjoyed it. Love the slightly bumbling Elves cheering Santa on. The face huggers are creepy and ugly. The dreams within dreams left me bemused and amused. The Doctor driving Santa’s sleigh was the icing on the cake. Scary, funny and silly, all you need for a Doctor Who Christmas.

    #49513
    Missy @missy

    @winston

    Funny you should post this winston. I saw this again (for the umpteenth time) two nights ago.

    Like you I enjoyed all of it, particularly when Clara declares how much she has missed ‘that noise.”

    It may sound silly, but the most poignant scene, was the Tangerine on the windowsill. I have to admit to my eyes

    stinging a little.

    Missy

    #72691
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    This is my favourite Christmas episode. The Moff has pulled off an extremely difficult combination – a comedy which is also a serious and scary drama. And you can’t get more Christmassy than Santa Claus. Albeit a sarcastic Santa, with equally sarcastic elves, who unabashedly call attention to their own improbability.

    With massive hindsight, it’s obvious when the dream crabs have got them – but not so, the first time around. I needed several viewings to fully follow it and appreciate the layers of meaning. There are several layers of dream in this thing, a bit like ‘Inception’, except that’s not at all apparent at the start of the episode.

    But as the Doc says, you know the big problem with telling fantasy and reality apart? They’re both ridiculous.

    In fact the Moff doesn’t just suggest we’re in a dream, he virtually says so, repeatedly – and we miss it! (Or at least, I did).

    And this episode is a feast of funny lines, Santa’s as often as the Doc’s.
    “Three words: My Little Pony” (is the Moff mocking his own ‘three words’ (3W) from Death in Heaven? Of course he is!)

    Doctor: How’d you get all the presents in the sleigh? Santa: Bigger on the inside. (ta-daa!)

    “There’s a horror movie called ‘Alien’? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.”

    Santa is simultaneously physically ‘real’, and a fictional character who continually calls attention to his own impossibility. I love the surreal atmosphere of his episode. (In the Discworld, he’d be an anthropomorphic personification.)

    Clara and the Doc finally tell each other the truth about Danny and Gallifrey respectively.

    Then Clara gets attacked by a crab and goes off into her fantasy about Danny… And the Doctor comments on the realism of Clara’s dream – this whole episode is just so meta (have I got the usage right?) There’s a touching scene with Clara and Danny (the fictional Danny in Clara’s mind) from which the Doctor rescues her, helped by fictional-Danny. But then we realise everyone’s still in a dream. How many layers down are we?

    Step up the ultimate fictional character, Santa, to try and save everyone. Except along the way he questions the reality of the alien Doctor in his blue phone box. Doctor: Why don’t you just go and make a naughty list? Santa: I have, mate, and you’re on it.

    So anyway, Santa persuades them to hold hands and throw off the crabs – and fight their way out of the infirmary. Whereupon the Doc goes to fly off in his Tardis with Clara. But Clara protests about leaving the ‘scientists’ to the mercy of the crabs.
    Doctor: There are lots of dangerous things on this funny little planet of yours, Clara, most of which you eat.
    So then Clara asks the crucial question: Doctor? If Santa was only in the dream, why was he on my roof?
    which causes the doctor to dive back into the fray, and rescue (most of) them – though of course the Tardis was also a part of the dream, and he has to resort to calling on Santa and his sleigh.

    And all is well, they all go back to their lives – except Clara is now very old (I think this was written when Jenna was scheduled to leave the series) and we have a rather touching farewell scene with the Doctor and Old Clara – interrupted by Santa (again) who wakes the Doc from yet another layer of dream. Is this the fourth layer so far?

    I just watched it yet again, and I found it easier to follow the logic of the episode. It all hangs together quite well, with the knowledge that Santa is being generated by their dream state. The only bit I’m not sure of, is the last appearance of Santa, when he prompted the Doc to go back and rescue ‘young Clara’ – which means the scene with ‘old Clara’ was still a dream. But what prompted Santa (i.e. the Doc’s imagination manifesting as Santa) to realise that?

    Anyway, a (Christmas) cracker of an episode!

    #72692
    janetteB @janetteb

    @dentarthurdent Absolutely. An excellent review of what is “a cracker of an episode.” We watching it last week. I love the skill with which Moffat blends sadness and humour. “every Christmas is last Christmas”. We are reminded of mortality and the loss of loved ones which is always more acute at Christmas perhaps because for so many families it is one of hte few or only times in the year that they get together. Christmas is a time of memories as much as it is a celebration of the present. I always put up cards from old friends and family members who have passed away, a reminder of those who were part of Christmas in the past.

    I have also been re watching Hogfather. Nick Frost and Death, the two best, Solstice saints.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #72694
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @janetteb

    Hogfather is one of my favourites too, both the book and the movie adaptation. I do like Susan, Death’s granddaughter. In particular her Doctor-like ability to take the children to see actual historical events, and her refusal to be intimidated by spooky bogeymen. And the tendency people have to just want to agree with her – much more subtle than the Jedi Mind Trick.

    And, of course, Death. Sir Pterry was surely the only writer to make Death into a sympathetic character. Actually, Death – in his tendency to want to do ‘human’ things and getting it just slightly off-key – resembles the Capaldi Doctor in that respect.

    It struck me (before I read your comment, actually) that there’s a parallel between the Hogfather and Santa (of Last Christmas) – both are collective human inventions, and both are necessary. In the Discworld, humanity’s capacity to imagine (including mythical entities like Hogfather) is an essential part of being human; and the existence of such entities (in the Discworld’s magical field) is dependent on human belief. In Last Christmas, Santa is essential to rescuing the Doctor and company, and his ‘existence’ is dependent on belief.

    Incidentally, I have all of the Discworld novels, they have their own little bookcase. I tend to like the earlier books best (including any with Death in them). But Pratchett has a similar gift to the Moff, of making a few words carry a depth of hidden meaning. And also, of mixing drama with humour.

    You’ve just reminded me to dig out my Hogfather DVD – thanks.

    #72697
    janetteB @janetteb

    @dentarthurdent Hogfather was really my introduction to Pratchett. I am currently working my way through all of the Discworld books. They are now my standard Christmas present from the eldest and his girlfriend. I just picked up the Amazing Maruice which they gave me last year. It is a lot of fun but also packed with profound ideas. Love the rats discussing metaphysical concents such as an afterlife. Moffat also uses light strokes to depict serious subjects which is what I find so lacking in Chibnell’s approach which is heavy handed.

    You are right in that Death, when he is trying to be human in Mort does have a Capaldi doc vibe, perhaps why I liked Death so much.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #72699
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @janetteb    Well, I just watched Hogfather – three hours!   I’d forgotten that they included so much from the book, in the movie.

    I suppose The Amazing Maurice was a Discworld book – it wasn’t in the ‘main stream’ of them IIRC.   My favourite characters were Death and Lord Vetinari, I think.    And Nanny Ogg.   And Angua the werewolf.

    At this point I should probably mention my favourite stories, but it’s so long since I read them (must re-read!) I’m a bit hazy.   Hogfather, certainly.   Most of the ‘Death’ ones.   The Last Continent (I really liked the God of Evolution idea).   Pyramids (and camel mathematicians).   And most of the earlier ‘Watch’ ones, like Guards!  Guards!   And Moving Pictures, I did like Gaspode, the talking dog (who usually found it more prudent to just say ‘Woof’)

    I must admit to a false step at first, decades back – I’d heard of Terry Pratchett, picked one at random (Lords and Ladies), found it was full of witches and elves, said ‘this ain’t sci-fi!’ and dismissed Pratchett for another decade…   my loss.

    I’m sure you’re familiar with it but I’ll mention it anyway, because it shows how all the novels fit together:

    upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Discworld_Reading_Order_Guide_3.0_(cropped).jpg

    #72703
    Missy @missy

    I am a great fan of Sir Terry Pratchett and have all the Disc world books. I also have quite a few audio books of same.

    My favourite character’s are: Rinswind, the Luggage, Death, Vetinari and ‘foul old Ron!’ Oh, and Vimes.

    Missy

    #72710
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @missy    Is there anyone who doesn’t like Death?

    Just prompted me to start re-reading my Discworld collection.     Maybe start with Sourcery because apparently that’s what Sir Terry suggested starting with.    Not sure where to go after that, back to Colour of Magic presumably.

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