On The Sofa (10)

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    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @missrori     Hi, thanks for that.   While I don’t usually bother with the books (the exception being The Day of the Doctor), I have to say I do like that story.   It fits in with what I’d surmised and doesn’t do any violence to the TV storyline.   It hadn’t occurred to me – but it’s obvious now you mentioned it – that if Bill was ‘collected’ after her life with Heather she’d have a huge lot of experiences unknown to the Doctor.     Was there any information in respect to Clara’s voyaging with Me? – I assume (parallel with Bill) that they would have ‘collected’ her when the Time Lords eventually put her back in Raven Lane.   I suppose though that Testimony would have edited her avatar too, back to the American Diner.

    I might try looking for a few more of the books.   I haven’t previously because I’ve usually found ‘the book of the film’ to be a disappointment, which is a natural statistical consequence of Sturgeon’s Law (95% of everything is junk).   Since a film and a book are almost totally unrelated works, with usually only a theme and characters in common.  Which means, if a film is exceptionally good (i.e. part of the top 5%), it has to be just a big coincidence if the book is also exceptionally good.   And vice versa, great book, it’s unlikely the movie will be as good.   BUT, Who could be an exception there.   Worth a try.


    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Back to Who watching –  Vincent and the Doctor

    The Doctor is giving Amy the Grand Tour, and Amy can’t figure why. “These places you’re taking me, I think it’s suspicious”. “There’s nothing to be suspicious about”. “Okay, I was joking. Why aren’t you?” Amy’s pretty quick.

    Always a pleasure to watch Bill Nighy at work, he just is the character. His encomiums of Vincent sound as if he really had been studying Van Gogh all his working life, rather than reading off a script a few days ago. (I wouldn’t have used a word like ‘encomium’ with any other actor 🙂

    Of course, like with Shakespeare and Dickens, and Agatha Christie, the Doctor can’t resist dropping in as many references to Van Gogh’s work as he can fit in. Just personally, Van Gogh isn’t my favourite artist, I prefer my impressionists either more detailed like Monet or Turner, or the weird stylised geometric jungles of Henri Rousseau. (But then I much prefer Dali to Picasso, which just shows how much I know about art).

    The monster is kind of naff. Though its apparent lack of effectiveness (for such a fearsome creature) is perfectly explained by the realisation that it’s blind. So that’s a potential plot hole neatly explained. I realised this better on a second viewing, in fact many episodes run smoother when re-viewed as the storyline becomes more familiar. (Didn’t help Cold Blood though).

    So this doesn’t stick in my memory as a great episode, but a pleasant one to watch.

    And – World Enough and Time.   I’ve suddenly realised that one thing I thought was a bit shaky in World Enough and Time wasn’t an inconsistency at all, and was quite rational. I’d assumed that Moffat was playing fast-and-loose with the gravitational time dilation and the time it took for the ‘rescuers’ to arrive on the bridge, and besides, how could the bridge know they were coming if time on the bridge was running so slow?
    But of course, electronic signals travel at the speed of light, 186,000 miles a second, many times faster than the fastest conceivable express lift. Suppose the ship is 200 miles long, and the fastest express lift takes 24 minutes (in normal gravity) to arrive. In normal gravity, the lift indicator at Floor 1 will show the lift leaving Floor 1056, 1.2 milliseconds after it actually does.
    In the episode, allowing for the fact that things ‘below’ Floor 1 are moving proportionately faster (from Floor 1’s viewpoint), the lift itself may only take a few ‘Floor 1 minutes’ – but it doesn’t matter. The lift signal will still only have taken milliseconds – instantaneous for practical purposes.
    In fact the lift indicator on Floor 1 will show the lift’s initial progress from Floor 1056 as virtually instantaneous (in Floor 1 time), but as the lift moves up it will appear to slow down until, by the time it approaches Floor 1, it’s doing normal express lift speed. From the point of view of the lift’s inhabitants, it will have taken exactly the standard 24 minutes. By the time they get back ‘home’, 50 (subjective) minutes later, maybe 20 years will have elapsed on Floor 1056.
    If the bridge had CCTV on Floor 1056, they would see the inhabitants moving at super-speed, about 180,000 times normal.
    So it all hangs together, NO timey-wimey fudging required!

    Oochillyo @oochillyo

    hey @dentarthurdent The Lodger ep is next for you, on re-watch yesterday it really struck me how good of an ep it is, I often check out reviews and sweet theories about it too 🙂

    The more I watch the ep from time to time the more I enjoy it so I skipped to Closing Time because its basically a sequel to The Lodger and it was pretty nice on re watch good to re fresh you know so a nice little package 🙂

    I hope you enjoy the first part (The Lodger) and check out the theories discussed by CaptainJimiPie before or after you watch The Lodger if you like 🙂

    Take care everyone hugs 🙂

    Regards – Declan Sargent

    Oochillyo @oochillyo

    hey everyone in my previous message I mentioned checking out the theories about The Lodger ep, I didn’t realize if you search ‘Doctor Who The Lodger Theories’ or ‘CaptainJimiPie’ it will likely appear at the top of the YouTube search bar so I warn you of spoilers if you don’t want to know about the main details of the theories before watching the Doctor Who ep The Lodger, thank you 🙂

    Regards – Declan Sargent

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    The Lodger.

    Okay, I liked the touch that, at the end of the ep, the Doctor and Amy were setting up the scenario for the start of the episode. I wonder how often in his career the Doctor has had to do that? It’s just occurred to me that that would be an extremely useful ability in all sorts of occasions, say you’re – being chased by an assassin and you conveniently find a gun (never mind Thirteen’s odd phobia about the things) which you must remember to go back later and plant there for yourself to find at the crucial moment…

    The Doctor was entertainingly awkward which verged into intensely annoying at times, I was expecting Craig to whack him one sooner or later. It was as if the Doc was trying to destroy Craig’s romance, or show him up in front of all his friends. People who pay their rent in advance with bagfuls of notes are entitled to a certain degree of slack, but there are limits. Actually, Craig’s inability to tell his girlfriend he loved her was extremely well written, and rather touching.

    The idea of the ship patiently working its way through the entire human population, one by one, until it found a suitable ‘pilot’, is chilling but breath-takingly audacious. The idea that Craig’s disinclination to leave makes the ship give up and shut down is kind of absurd, and why would it release the Doctor for Craig? Unless having two candidates just confused it. Still, top marks to the actors and director for ‘selling’ it so well. This must be the first ship whose self-destruct didn’t vaporise everything for a thousand miles.

    So, quite a pleasant interlude.   Next, things get serious…

    MissRori @missrori

    @dentarthurdent Cornell doesn’t mention anything about Clara’s further exploits; the appearance of her avatar is regarded from Twelve’s perspective, but IIRC he’s pretty sure she had her fair share of adventures before she died (if she didn’t figure out a way to outsmart the Raven altogether!).   The TUAT novelization has a lot of extra perspective about various characters, including more detail regarding why Twelve really didn’t want to regenerate, and why he ultimately does.  Some of it brings Cornell’s Human Nature to mind.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @missrori    Thanks for that!     Still, sounds like it would be worth my while to pick up a copy of Twice Upon a Time to read for myself.

    Icharus1 @icharus1

    Just found this site.   Apologies for being light years behind, but can see I have an incredible source of information to read from like minded people.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Welcome @icharus1

    It’s true, it is a pretty amazing archive of insane theories. Enjoy.

    Oochillyo @oochillyo

    hey Icharus1 Welcome to The Forum 🙂 I hope you enjoy the forum, feel free to look around and take care hugs 🙂

    Regards – Declan Sargent

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Okay, so this is going to be a long one…

    I’m on to the Season 5 finale, and boy is this going to go with a bang (pun intended). The Pandorica Opens. I love these timey-wimey Moffatt puzzle-box episodes. AND episode-long arcs. And this one opens on full throttle – Vincent, Churchill, River Song in Stormcage, Liz 10 (yay! I *love* Sophie Okonedo), Maldovar, prehistory, Romans and Cleopatra (aka River Song) – and that’s just the pre-title sequence. Way to grab everyone’s attention!

    So that’s quite a chain for the message to follow. As always, it becomes clearer on second watching. River Song is either the worst graffiti vandal in the Universe – because the cliff was unmarked before she graffitied it – or not a vandal at all, because after all it was just another cliff with no distinguishing features and was utterly without significance before she wrote a message on it.

    Secret passages under Stonehenge (where else?), containing ancient magical boxes – Doctor Who outdoes Indiana Jones. And, I have to say, does it very well.

    And I absolutely *love* the way the dialogue has the completely opposite sense, once you know the hidden meaning. “A nameless terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies, the most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it or hold it or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world”. Now I wonder who that could be? The Moff is teasing us!

    And I burst out laughing at River’s “I hate good wizards in fairy tales, they always turn out to be him”. (Not this time, as it happens, but – spoilers).

    Not sure how effective the Romans would be, but I do like the way River Song uses her gun, not to threaten the Romans, but to convince Caesar that she’s from a way more advanced culture and someone he should help. That’s seriously good.

    AND daleks and cybermen. And it even gives us a new Cyberman horror trick – carnivorous Cyberheads that want to replace their used-up human brains with new ones, specifically Amy’s. And then, having failed, it shoots her with a Cyberdart – we haven’t seen the result of that yet.

    And then we have the return of Rory, which the Doctor is initially too preoccupied even to notice is – odd. Rory isn’t a favourite of mine, but I like him here, notably his air of slightly sarcastic detachment while waiting for the penny to drop. I really feel for him when it becomes apparent Amy doesn’t remember him.

    And the Tardis takes River Song to Amy’s house where she finds that all the Romans came out of Amy’s picture book. This is getting seriously weird. I do like the little touch that, while the Doc is talking to River, the Romans in the background are hefting the Cyber weapons. And then they turn into Autons. The whole scenario was a trap to attract the Doctor. And AutonRory can’t stop himself shooting Amy.

    And – what a reversal – the Pandorica does not contain a deadly menace – yet. Every enemy race in the Universe has united to put the Doctor in it. Because – this is where the two stories come together – they have worked out that the Tardis will destroy the Universe and they think nullifying the Doctor will prevent that. Which it won’t, because River, but that’s not their fault.

    And the Tardis explodes.

    What an episode! As complicated as it could possibly get, this episode has everything. But unlike previous episodes that have everything and sadly demonstrate that ‘everything’ just diffuses the tension, this one uses all the elements and does it well. And it all hangs together, even the bits in the story that I had to back up and re-watch to get clear. If there are any big inconsistencies, they certainly weren’t apparent on a normal watch-through, which is all I require of an episode.

    Now let’s see how The Big Bang resolves it.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @icharus1 Welcome to the site. I hope you enjoy it here.

    Like @dentarthurdent I am a little dubious about novelisations of TV and Films in general but I loved The Day of the Doctor. I did consider buying the Cornell novelisation as I really liked his scripts but have not been book shopping for a long time. When I was a teenager I had a lot of the Target Who tie ins. That was back before VHS when novelisations were the closest one could get to a re watch.  I don’t think  I will ever re read them but would not part with them all the same. But then I am not good at parting with books.





    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @janetteb    I’m like you, I collect books and have great trouble parting with them.   I have an estimated 1500 books, some of which I treasure, most of which I will never read again.   I am now very wary of buying books, I love browsing second-hand book shops but often come away empty because – unless a book *really* grabs me – I’ve got nowhere to put it.

    Actually there’s a few hundred I could dispose of, but how? – I can’t bring myself to throw them away.   Charity shops I guess.   But trying to sort them out is doomed to failure, to quote one of the most apposite taglines I ever read, “No-one who can read is ever successful in cleaning out an attic”.

    winston @winston

    @janetteb  I have books from my childhood and my Dads and his mothers all the way back to my great,great ,great grandmas schoolbooks from 1840 so not only me but nobody in my family can throw out a book. Every now and then I attempt to down-size the bookshelves but very few are chosen. Now I stick to library books and e-books so I can read all I want without trying to find space on the shelves. My exception is buying paperback “bath books” so I can read them guilt free in the tub. Our charity shops are full of inexpensive books so I get my bath books there and return them when I am done , unless I get them wet. Ooops!

    Stay safe

    janetteB @janetteb

    @dentarthurdent and @winston Recently the eldest and his girlfriend moved into the front room which had two bookcases of children’s books in it. They picked out the books they thought worth keeping then I went through them while she watched in disbelief, as book after book went into the “keep” box, until the box was overflowing and they began piling up on the floor. I sorted out a bag of books to give away and now we have two big piles of books and no space for them in the rest of the house but  I am not parting with them. The Dr Who Target novelisations went into the “keep” box.

    Last week I was helping at a library book sale and came home with a big bag full of books. Don’t know where I will put them but I just can’t resist buying books. Especially when they are going to end up being pulped if not bought. I have to save them from that.

    It is wonderful to have “family heirloom” books. I have my grandfather’s pocket Robert Burns but they were too poor to own many books and they lost what they had in a house fire. I do have some of Mum’s books and my Father’s Thomas Hardy’s but I was overseas when the family house was sold and so, perhaps fortunately, was not able to keep much. There was one book I really wanted, a signed book of Frank Hurley photography. It was given to my father as a thank you for returning a lens he found after Frank Hurley was taking photos from the Town Hall tower. Being passionate about photography my father appreciated the value of the lens and know how best to package it. Sadly I missed out on that.




    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @janetteb  @winston   Well, none of my books are family heirlooms.  All collected by me.   I have a vague idea that I was a reluctant reader at first, but when I found how it was done and it was actually quite easy I became a compulsive reader.  I read everything I could see, instruction manuals, the backs of corn flakes packets, everything.   It was the equivalent of the Youtube rabbit hole.   I eventually made a policy decision that I was *not* going to read some thing ‘just because it was there’.   But the public library was like heaven for me, I visited at least once a week for years.

    Oh, I do have just one of my father’s books – Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam.   Fitzgerald’s slightly cynical/romantic view of life chimed with me – one of the few things I agreed with my father on.   And I did like Thomas Hardy, though more for his countryside than his characters (this probably had a lot to do with the fact that we moved to NZ when I was about 14 and I was nostalgic for the ‘Wessex’ New Forest countryside).


    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    And, back to Doctor Who – The Big Bang – or is it back to The Eleventh Hour (seriously resisting an urge to cue up that episode and look for subtle changes). But the change comes soon enough – no stars. What *is* going on? Everything is slightly different. Fossilised Daleks in the museum. And young Amelia’s touch opens the museum Pandorica to reveal – Amy Pond. “Okay kid – this is where it gets complicated”. Moffat, I love you! Can’t say you didn’t give us fair warning 🙂

    So then the Doctor (from the future) appears to Rory in 102 AD and gets Rory to release him from the Pandorica (you can do this stuff if you’re a time traveller). And puts Amy in it to keep her on ice for 2000 years. While Rory settles down to guard it.

    So, back in the museum, we have happy reunions while the Doctor uses a vortex manipulator to dash all over the place setting things up. (Whatever happened to not crossing your own timeline? Or is that suspended now we’re in, presumably, an alternate universe? A virtual one? I dunno.

    But then the Doctor virtually says as much. The universe is collpasing and reality is being rewritten. But how did the Doctor rescue River from the Tardis?

    So then the Doctor flies the Pandorica into the exploding Tardis and re-seeds the Universe (or goes back in time to the Eleventh Hour, apparently the process looks the same). And then the Doctor disappears through the crack as it’s closing, the stars return, and now Amy has a mum and dad. I have to say her mum appears a lot more amiable than just about every other companion’s mum to date.

    So then we have the long-delayed wedding. And Amy remembers the Doctor back into existence. That old rhyme about something old, new, borrowed and blue – of course that describes the Tardis! And Amy is very definitely in charge at her wedding.

    Well, a very entertaining episode, it wasn’t quite as bullet-proof logical as Pandorica Opens. But given a bit of latitude (this si scifi, after all) I think it hangs together OK. But does this mean the universe now has been recreated entirely from ‘DNA’ traces of the old one left in the Pandorica plus Amy’s memory?

    janetteB @janetteb

    @dentarthurdent It is a fun episode and very “moffaty”. IT has the classic Moffat “timey wimey” elements. MOffat is perhaps the only Dr Who writer, certainly the only “show runner” who really utilises time travel as a story device. Time travel is not just a means of delivering the Doctor and companions to where the story happens but it is woven into the story. Love young Amy meeting grown up Amy and due to the strong family likeness Caitlin is believable as a younger version of Amy. As with many Moffat stories however  I feel as though the script spins out of his control towards the end. He is very clever at setting things up but sometimes I feel as though he does not really know how to resolve the riddles and puzzles he has created. I found the ending to be a bit of a let down after the breathless excitement of the build up. Still a great couple of episodes.

    We are a little ahead of you but not much. Currently working through the next series. Last night we watched The Power of Three. You will probably catch up to us soon though.



    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @janetteb   As you say, the Moff is probably the only writer in NuWho who uses time travel to its full potential.   Of course you can’t do that too much or too often or the hero could avoid every crisis by nipping back in time and subverting it.   It does require very careful ‘book-keeping’ of who did what and when, and who knew about it, and careful plotting to make sure the audience can follow it.   Maybe other writers just find that too hard and prefer to tell a linear story.

    I think we also share the view that Big Bang didn’t have the force of the Pandorica episode, but of course that’s a hazard that writers always face.   You have most of an episode to build up the situation, and only a few minutes to make it go away.   So often the resolution doesn’t match the build-up.

    (Also, you can’t make it too easy (‘with one bound, he was free’) or the audience will be annoyed that they put so much emotional investment into a phony predicament; and you can’t make it too hard, or tedious, or with too many losses, because that’s a bit negative and nobody watches escapist entertainment to be depressed.   Now you *can* do either of those things, very rarely, and the rarity gives it shock value; but not too often.)

    Oochillyo @oochillyo

    hey everyone 🙂

    I’ve just re watched Night Terrors (which I havnt seen in years) it was pretty nice, I hate dolls they just freak me but I didnt really feel scared this time around mayby I’ve grown up a lot cause fears can affect you for years, I actually found it comforting which you could say is an issue its meant to be a scary ep but the message about family no matter who you are I found more rewarding than the scary factor, The Doctor was great, Rory really shined ‘The Doctors in Eastenders Town and were in 1700’ haha 🙂

    The end yeah you could say bit typical when all the dolls stopped and I thought so too but then they went straight after George which was a nice re fresh of tension and his Dad saved him even though he is an alien 🙂

    Some funny characters like that old Women and when the trio tried to find the kid the reactions of the civilians and the trio getting rejected cause they are a bit weird was really good 🙂

    I always found the inside the Doll House interesting and Amy and Rory being soo confused of where they are with wooden pans and giant eyeballs in the draw hehe pretty unique setting 🙂

    The fact that George is an alien so his fears can be real and his main fear is being rejected (part of his species) all was a nice way of explaining what was going on 🙂 and is like any other kid just with alien powers 🙂

    The Dad was good, felt pretty genuine (cause he believed the Doctor pretty quick without slamming heads like with Craige) and clearly loved his son 🙂

    Good to see The Doctor super scared sometimes and a cupboard of all things so we wonder what could possibly be soo dangerous and scary for The Doctor 🙂

    I think the really quick cuts of people getting taken, the CGI of the man getting sucked into the floor (which I thought lasted longer or was scary being a bit off) and the lift door closing at rapid speed was a bit wonky and so I guess thats my only really issue with the ep

    As I say its pretty comforting with good family messages and humor with a unique setting I didnt give this ep much credit in the past but maybe its a hidden gem 🙂


    Regards – Declan Sargent

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Okay, I just watched the next episode (after Big Bang), which I was expecting to be The Impossible Astronaut, and I was slightly chagrined when I realised there was A Christmas Carol to wade through first. Up to this point I hadn’t rated Christmas specials very highly, they just tended to get in the way of the ongoing storyline.

    However, I couldn’t help but like Christmas Carol. It barely hung together as sci-fi, but was a charming and touching fantasy. Michael Gambon was excellent as Kazran Sardick, who comes across as the most heartless villain ever. Not actually evil, but he just doesn’t care. His redemption as a human being was very nicely played. It was easy to imagine how the knowledge that thawing his girlfriend out would use up her last runtime, would eat away at him. As he said, how do you decide which day? It was more akin to a fairy story than regular sci-fi, but then maybe a Christmas special should be.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    And on to The Impossible Astronaut

    The co-ordinates in the invitation are accurate (of course everyone who saw the ep immediately got on Googlemaps and checked it!) – Monument Valley, just inside the Utah border, exactly where they filmed the bus. But Hamilton / Jefferson / Adams, I couldn’t locate.

    Ten minutes into the new season and the Doctor’s dead. I did not see that coming. And it turns out he invited his younger self to his death. But why?

    Love the scene with the Tardis in the White House. The doctor, relaxing in Nixon’s chair – “Fellows, the guns, really. Do you think you can just shoot me?” River (bursting out of the Tardis) – “They’re Americans!” The doctor (suddenly not relaxed) – “Don’t shoot!”
    And the uptight FBI agent – “Do not compliment the intruder!”

    Amy’s a cool character – takes a photo of the Silent on her phone. I was a little slow when the FBI agent asked Amy ‘what’s that?’ and she said ‘My phone’, I was expecting him to say ‘no phones allowed’ and try to confiscate it. Instead, he looked baffled – it wasn’t till later that the penny dropped and I realised that ‘phones’ that would also take photos were unknown in 1969. Not really a plot point, just an anachronism avoided.

    River’s first sight of the Silents (in the tunnel beneath the warehouse) is really a shock, even more scary than Amy’s encounter. They are possibly the most scary monsters ever in Doctor Who. The fact that she (and Rory, later) can turn round and instantly report ‘nothing there’ just adds to the scare.

    And in the tunnel is the lost ship from ‘The Lodger’. What’s that doing here? It seems to be better behaved with River than in The Lodger, though. But then the Silents close in on Rory, there are flashes of light and River looks round in alarm…

    In the warehouse, Amy finally finds time to tell the Doctor she’s pregnant, then the astronaut suit walks in and Amy shoots it before realising there’s a little girl in it…

    Masses of set-up. This is going to take some sorting out.

    I like this ep, visually great, lots of humour (particularly in the bickering between the Doctor and River Song).

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Day of the Moon (warning – massive SPOILERS!)

    What a ripper of a way to start the second half of a two-parter. As usual with a Moff two-parter, the second half starts with an apparently totally different tone from where the first left off. Amy is running down a dirt road in the Valley of the Gods (yes it is, I checked, and it’s been Streetviewed), pursued by Canton Everett Delaware who – shoots her? And there are strange tick markings all over her arms.

    Then we have the Doctor, imprisoned in a warehouse in ‘Area 51’, surrounded by ‘Do Not Interact With The Prisoner’ signs, and having a prison cell built round him. Then a New York skyscraper, where River (bearing similar markings) is threatened by Silents, and by Canton and his FBI goons, and she falls off the building. Then Glen Canyon Dam (location confirmed) where Rory is also shot by Canton… who delivers two body bags to the Doctor, just as the cell is completed. And – he’s been working with the Doctor all the while. And – shock – the Tardis (in invisible mode) is in the cell with them. So they all fly it to New York just in time for River to dive into the famous swimming pool.

    (So, for the second time, River has fallen out of something just in time for the Tardis to collect her. The notorious Tardis temporal unreliability never seems to manifest when River’s involved. One could almost imagine the Tardis is playing favourites).

    But anyway, *all this happens* before the credits. Talk about starting with a bang! I loved the reveal of the invisible Tardis in the cell.

    So, it appears Amy, Rory and River had been trying to gauge how many Silents there were, and found them everywhere. Or, as the Doctor said, “As long as there’s been something in the corner of your eye, or creaking in your house, or breathing under your bed, or voices through a wall.” Now that is really chilling. I’ve got Silents in my house, have had as long as I can remember. The Moff really knows how to make everyday life scary, doesn’t he?

    And – there’s one in the Tardis. Luckily, just a hologram, but that passage where Canton sees it and then can’t remember it is, again, truly creepy.
    And the sequence in the abandoned childrens’ home with the ‘Get out’ warnings daubed on the walls, and the tally marks that suddenly appear on Amy’s hands, keeps up the scare factor.

    Couldn’t help but laugh when the Doctor got President Nixon to bail him out of NASA custody. And I loved the little cameo where the Doctor orders Nixon to tape everything in his office.

    Back in childrens’ home, a window opens in a door and woman-with-eyepatch observes Amy, then the window disappears. This is getting surreal. And in the cell there are photos including Amy-with-baby. Then the girl in the astronaut suit walks in, flanked by Silents… When Clayton has summoned the Doctor and comes to her rescue, Amy has disappeared. Where is she?

    Meanwhile Clayton records one of the Silents on Amy’s cellphone, saying ‘You should kill us on sight’. This will be important later.

    Amy has been abducted to the alien ‘Lodger’ ship – I’d wondered what happened to that. And the Tardis materialises, carrying the Doctor, Rory, and River with her gun, to the rescue. And Clayton puts the track of the Silent commanding ‘Kill us all on sight’ on worldwide TV.

    So Nixon asks the Doctor if he’ll be remembered and the Doc assures him he’ll never be forgotten. And River kisses the Doctor who is taken aback but says there’s always a first time for anything – to which River sadly replies ‘and a last’ and I’ve only just realised the significance of this in their back-to-front relationship.

    And just when we thought the episode was over… the Doctor uses the Tardis scanner on Amy and it reveals she’s pregnant/not pregnant. And six months later in New York, the little girl starts to regenerate…

    And all that was just the highlights of the episode. What an episode, just crammed full of goodies. There is, as I recall, more meat in any ten minutes of this ep than in the whole of Curse of the Black Spot. But it still leaves huge questions – the (future) doctor is still dead, who was in the astronaut suit when it shot him, what is Amy’s pregnancy status, where did the little girl come from? And the Silents, though presumably much reduced, were still around in 2011 when the Doctor was shot.

    I love this stuff.

    dr-nao @dr-nao

    I am here looking for some help from you all to suggest some alien landscape images (or planets from space) from early Doctor Who.

    Although I love DW, it’s my husband who is the biggest fan in our house.  It’s his birthday soon and I’d love to do a painting of an early/original Doctor Who (TV) alien landscape with us added into it.  It’d be in the style of the 1950s space posters.  The only trouble is, I can’t find any landscape images to base it on – a few shots of quarries and lots of bits of England, but nothing looking like it’s another planet.  Do you know of any images that might be suitable? I’d be grateful for links to images, or even tell me which episode you found it in (and where?) and I’ll hunt through our collection.

    Thank you for any help.

    Dr Nao

    Oochillyo @oochillyo

    hey Dr-Nao Welcome to The Forum , I hope you enjoy it here if you decided to stay 🙂

    I was thinking about your query (its a very sweet Birthday treat 🙂 ) and though I thought of the cliff-face in Castrovalva and picturing you two rock climbing I wasn’t sure if that interests you and mayby again the cliff-face is a bit bland though the castle like area on top of it is cool 🙂

    So I thought about images from these two classic and commonly discussed scenes, I hope you like it 🙂



    Take care hugs 🙂

    Regards – Declan Sargent

    Oochillyo @oochillyo

    hey Dr-Nao I just realized you said alien or planet landscapes, its funny when you read something but it doesnt quite click so prehaps my suggestions arent what you were looking for.

    On the other hand from a positive angle I think the round building behind the CyberMen could easily be a spaceship or painted with some extra details or colors to make it look alien 🙂

    You could paint London Bridge the way it looked in Victorian times and Big Ben (mayby the Houses of Parliament too) could be the alien aspect of the painting 🙂

    I hope that helped 🙂 take care hugs 🙂

    Regards – Declan Sargent

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @dr-nao This sounds like a great birthday present!

    When it comes to alien landscapes, I would suggest an image from the story “The Web Planet” which featured the Zarbi (your husband will know…)

    The thing is, the lack of budget in the early years meant that alien planets were mainly rock quarries, hence my recommendation for this:



    Oochillyo @oochillyo

    hey everyone 🙂

    I have been thinking about writing my own Doctor Who Story (like a book) or story like an ep , I dont want to show off or take everyone’s ideas just looking for a few tips

    I have been writing my own Sci Fi story (book) for a while now but its different from Doctor Who and I wonder if there are themes to stick too ect

    I am going to write about the Cybus design CyberMen and mayby place the story in Victorian times (like a book I have of them and The Christmas Special) or some future space time like Earthshock but going for planets ect not just stuck on a ship.

    I could place this in Creative ideas section but I think it will be noticed more On The Sofa 🙂

    Thank you too anyone who helps out and feel free to write your own stories ect 🙂

    Take care everyone hugs 🙂

    Regards – Declan Sargent

    dr-nao @dr-nao

    Dear Declan (@oochillyo) and @blenkinsopthebrave,

    thank you so much for the warm welcome to the forum.

    I really appreciate your excellent and thoughtful suggestions.  I am so glad that I asked here otherwise I would have been stuck doing one of the modern landscapes.  Much higher budget, of course, so lots of beautiful things to choose from but my husband doesn’t entirely consider the new episodes ‘proper’ Doctor Who 😉

    I will have a difficult choice to decide between your suggestions.  I love the simple landscape of Vortis (Web Planet) which I think will work well as a ’50s style poster.  On the other hand, the castle on Castrovalva is indeed rather cool (especially the Escher version that was the inspiration).  I was initially quite tempted by the London landscapes, but I’m not sure my limited artistic ability will really do them justice.  I will let you know how I get on.

    Thank you so much for your kindness.


    Dr Nao


    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Anyone heard anything about this new immersive Dr Who event/exhibition – Time Fracture  when I first saw the advert on the SFX magazine cover  I thought it was some kind of new VR game but not sure the one advert I’ve actually seen seems to imply it may be something like the Harry Potter tour

    dr-nao @dr-nao

    Hi @devilishrobby
    That immersive Doctor Who thing sounded really exciting!

    I found this https://www.immersivedoctorwho.com/event/doctor-who-time-fracture

    It looks like it’s just in London and not a VR game… 🙁

    Macca @macca

    Hello everyone how are we all?

    Just been thinking about how important Dr.Who was to me and my family on Christmas Day and how kids these days don’t get that anymore due to chibsy, who else thinks that they should bring Doctor Who back onto our screens at 7 or 8 o’clock on Christmas day because I do. Also, I was watching an interview featuring David and Matt a while back on Youtube and they were discussing a really cool idea of each Christmas a different Doctor gets the story so one year we could have Capaldi, the next year Eccleston and the year after Tennant/Smith maybe even McGann, this idea sounds so cool to me and especially if the BBC didn’t spoil which Doctor it was but I guess they would have to for the marketing of the show.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @janetteb – I hope you’re safely clear of the Victorian covid outbreak.

    I’m still working my way through S6 – The Curse of the Black Spot. Not a bad episode as such, just a pirate story such as everybody and his dog has done. So, pretty forgettable. It would be a perfectly good episode in some other TV series, but here it’s just outshone by almost every other ep.

    Including, notably, the next episode, The Doctor’s Wife. I loved it. The backchat between Idris and the Doctor was beautiful. “You didn’t always take me where I wanted to go”. “No, but I always took you where you needed to go.”
    The nice idea that the Tardis has ‘archived’ all the old control rooms – including ones that haven’t been created ‘yet’. Idris has such an all-inclusive view of time.
    The revelation that Idris chose the Doctor (rather than the other way around). Neatly turning conventional Doctor lore on its head, yet without doing any violence to the canon.

    There was one scene (that Neil Gaiman mentions in his commentary, but it got cut) that I would have liked to see – when the Doctor was building a Tardis, he couldn’t find any scrap Tardis parts, until Idris pointed out they all had chameleon circuits still running and turned them off. Would’ve been cool to watch but not essential to the plot, though.

    Lovely episode.

    winston @winston

    @dentarthurdent  I also loved The Doctors Wife !  That episode has everything from a to b. Great witty banter, strange alien people (made from lots of people) and an evil baddie named House who likes to play with his food before he eats it.  Amy and Rory are tortured while the Doctor and “Sexy” make a Tardis out of spare parts.So much in one episode.

    My favourite part is the end when the Doctor and the Tardis get to say hello before saying goodbye, although the Doctor now knows who the Tardis is and that she is always there for him. Now we love that old blue box even more.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @dentarthurdent and @winston,

    Your posts make me wish I liked The Doctor’s Wife but I just don’t connect with it as others do. I have tried and appreciate that it is a good episode but I don’t enjoy it.

    Thankfully we are “across” the border from the current outbreak though S.A. is to blame. Adelaide was the source of infection so it seems as though the fates really have it in for Victoria. We are currently in later planning stages for our writers’ festival so really, really hoping that the “plague” dot not get back here.

    @dr-nao welcome and good luck with the project. Would love to see the finished product.




    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @janetteb    I don’t think any state can be ‘blamed’ for covid outbreaks unless their government was negligent or reckless in their precautions.   In fact it seems to me that the state boundaries are really just an arbitrary border to try and draw a line around an outbreak, at least as far as SA/Vic/NSW/Queensland go.   I guess Northern Territory, West Australia and Tasmania have natural barriers, as does NZ.  But anyway, I’m pleased this one has missed you (so far).    What is this ‘writer’s festival’ of which you speak?

    In other news, Mrs D’s dahlias have started flowering again.   They did their thing in a big way in January-February, died back in March and got cut back, and now they’re at it again.   I have no idea if they’re supposed to do that.

    I honestly can’t understand anyone not loving The Doctor’s Wife.    (I don’t say that to be argumentative, I absolutely don’t mean to imply that you ‘ought to’ like it!)   It just seems so enjoyable – to me.   But then there are many things that other people rave about and I can’t see anything in it, and I guess my tastes are just as quirky as anybody’s.

    @winston  Yes, I noticed when writing my comments, Doctor’s Wife has just so much in it (I see you said that).   I could have written a page and not exhausted it all.   The acting was also perfect.   Auntie and Uncle had been repaired and rebuilt so many times they were like androids, doing House’s orders with no feelings and no morals – not evil, just neutral.   You couldn’t hate them.   House, on the other hand – I had an unholy feeling of retributory glee when the Doctor set Sexy on him.

    winston @winston

    @janetteb   That is the great thing about Doctor Who- something for everyone. We can’t all love every episode and there are some that others love but I don’t, that’s the way it goes.

    I hope your area stays safe as it is a pain in the ass being in endless lock down. My province is finally getting vaccines out in a pretty regular manner and most people seem anxious to get their jabs over and done with. They are even speeding up the 2nd dose so we may get it a little sooner. The grand kids have appointments for their 1st shot so maybe we can get together before this summer is over. The way this virus is ravaging some countries where people get little help and hospitals are over run I recognize that so far my family has been lucky. We have our health and homes and a good safety net to help us if we need it so we can’t complain. (but we still do because complaining is a Canadian past time, mostly about the weather)

    @dentarthurdent   The dahlias must be beautiful. I have had them but earwigs ate their buds before they opened and earwigs are pretty gross. I have to lift the bulbs and bring them inside for the winter, do you have to lift yours

    Right now it is flowering trees and shrubs like lilacs, honeysuckle ,spirea and apple that are bringing me wonderful pastel colours and making my garden smell like heaven. Mmmmmm

    Stay safe.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @winston   As it happens, we had our first covid shots today.   About a month ago I got a text on my old cellphone giving an appointment for Mrs D, with a link to a website to confirm it – but my cellphone is NOT a smartphone and when I typed the link into my laptop it didn’t work.   So I rang the helpline number – “You are currently #128 in the queue” (!) – they must have had a lot of staff on their phones because I was answered after just ten minutes.   And the person advised me, though I hadn’t had an ‘invite’, to ask at the centre when I took Mrs D in, as they might ‘fit me in’ as well if they could.   Which is what happened.

    Dahlias – no, Mrs D never lifts the bulbs unless she’s giving some to some cousin or transplanting them.   Here in Auckland we have ‘cold’ days but it never quite freezes, we get frosts maybe four or five times a year.  So the dahlias seem to survive OK.

    This year has been extraordinary, it really feels like full winter now – and there’s heavy snow all over the South Island – yet exactly 30 days ago I was having my last swim at Piha because the water was just starting to cool down – the summer temperatures just kept on going right through April.   I’m used to summer being late, but this year was exceptionally late.   I’m not complaining   🙂

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Mrs Blenkinsop and I were (last night) re-watching “The God Complex”. An excellent episode.  There is something about it that is truly unnerving and at the same time very much about the bonds of humanity. But…with the exception of the supposedly comic relief of David Walliams’ character, who really doesn’t work at all. Or am I being too harsh on David Walliams?

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @blenkinsopthebrave    I agree, that episode (from memory – it’s still 7 eps away in my re-watch) had an unnerving premise.   But I really didn’t like David Walliams’ character.   Curiously, the character who first came to mind was the undertaker in Before the Flood, who, it turns out, was a different actor – but also from the planet Tivoli (the character, not the actor…)    A planet whose inhabitants wanted to be invaded should be quaint and quirky, but somehow ended up just being obnoxious and making me want [someone] to hit them.

    winston @winston

    @dentarthurdent  Congrats on getting your shots!  It will be so good when everyone everywhere can get a vaccine and we can get rid of covid all over the world. My 12 year old granddaughter called today to tell me that she gets hers this month and we are both so excited for her to come stay with us again. Hopefully before summer is over.

    We have spent days covering up our veggie plants because of a late cold spell and even snow but it is warming up again and the prediction is for a long, hot ,dry summer. I have a creek and a pump so water is no problem but it can mean fires and problems with crops so I hope it rains more than last year. Two years of drought is bad.

    I love to give plants to friends and family and to receive them. It is like sharing your garden.

    @blenkinsopthebrave Hi!   I found the Walliams character to be repulsive as I guess he is supposed to be. He was so slimy and cowardly and sniveling but deep down he was sly and conniving. The more he cringed the more I wanted someone to kick him. Still I think he belonged in such a creepy episode.

    Stay safe.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    This is a lot longer than I expected…

    The Rebel Flesh:  This was a really creepy episode. Never mind the inherent creepiness of replicant doppelgangers, there was a real sense of menace in the opening scenes. The foreman Miranda looked as if she might order the Doctor and companions all executed if they made a wrong move. Plus people-melting acid leaking everywhere. Then it becomes apparent that the Gangers have ‘escaped’ – or in fact, been animated exactly like Frankenstein’s monster, lightning flashes and all – and it becomes impossible to tell which is human and which is their Ganger…
    (Actually, for some reason this feels like it could have been an episode of Farscape)
    Then the Tardis gets swallowed by a pool of acid, cutting off their escape…
    And Rory (isn’t he an Auton, or did I miss something?) is comforting plastic-replica-Jeniffer, gotta love the irony.
    And there’s a lot of running down corridors, except now we’re not sure who’s doing the running. Even having watched the ep before, I’m not too sure which is original and which is replicant at this point.
    (And just as happened in the orphanage, and the Curse of the Black Spot, black-eyepatch-lady takes a look at Amy through a hatch)
    And the Doctor almost gets the two groups reconciled, until bloody human-Miranda turns it into a war, which replica-Miranda comments sarcastically is ‘just like me’. So the humans (minus Rory and real-Jennifer, who are trapped outside) plus the Doctor, barricade themselves in the chapel, together with – replicant-Doctor. End of episode, and what a cliffhanger it is.
    I hadn’t meant to write so much, but this ep is full of goodies.

    The Almost People:   I have to say, seeing the Doctors stroking each other’s ego is amusing. And Amy is torn between wanting to accept the replicant Doctor and preferring the ‘real’ one – the irony (on several levels) of this will become apparent much later.
    Ganger-Jennifer has turned all vicious and vindictive, while ganger-Miranda has become weary of the battle. I like Miranda the ganger much better than Miranda the human at this point.
    Replicant-Doctor** convinces replicant-Jimmy to release the humans from a trap. In the course of which real-Jimmy gets killed so replicant-Jimmy has to take his place. For his family.  Awwww.
    **Or was it really replicant-Doctor? – the Doctor (well, one of them) reveals to Amy that they swapped shoes. And then actual replicant-Doctor and replicant-Miranda sacrifice themselves to liquefy the savage replicant-Jenny along with themselves.
    Which neatly leaves one of each character (except Jenny) alive… and the Tardis stabilises the two surviving replicants and the doctor even cures Miranda’s cranial blood clot. Happy endings… even though I’m suspicious of neat happy endings, I quite like this one.

    … or is it? The Doctor orders Rory to stand away as he liquefies replicant-Amy(!!) This is shocking. I never saw that coming. This explains why the Tardis kept registering Amy as pregnant/not, and I guess explains Eyepatch Lady keeping tabs on the replicant Amy. I guess Amy was replaced by a replicant in the childrens home in Day of the Moon, or was it some time before that? But wow! To Be Continued indeed.

    Not a bad ep, though completely overshadowed by the events of its last two minutes. In retrospect, the irony of Amy (the unaware replicant) favouring the ‘real’ (but actually the replicant) Doctor is extraordinary.



    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Seems there’s a lull in posting.   I just watched A Good Man Goes to War and Let’s Kill Hitler – two fantastic episodes (and I mean that in both senses of the word).   Highly imaginative and great fun to watch.   Rather than fill this forum with my babblings, I posted a comment on each in the right place in the ‘Stephen Moffat Retrospective’ areas, not that anyone seems to be too worried about going Off Topic on this site   🙂


    dr-nao @dr-nao

    Hi @oochillyo and @blenkinsopthebrave

    thanks for your inspiration in the Doctor Who retro space poster request.  My husband loved it.  It was delivered by the Doctor too!  That is to say, we heard the sound of the TARDIS and when he leapt up to find it, he discovered a large ‘envelope’ probably left by the Doc.  Probably. 😉 Sadly, no actual sighting of the Doctor…

    I’m trying to link in a pic of the painting (this is my second attempt – so apologies if more than one post appears!) for those of you who were kind enough to say you’d like to see the finished result.  I hope you enjoy it.  Voyage to Vortis painting

    dr-nao @dr-nao

    OK, so I couldn’t insert a pic using the editor thingy and it looks like no one else has done so either, so I’ve updated my profile pic.  🙂   This link might work to see a larger version (on my Flickr) should you so wish… https://flic.kr/p/2m4j677

    Thanks again for the help – you created a lot of happiness 😀

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    Your painting is fabulous! And pass on my birthday greetings.


    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent


    Hey, that’s pretty good.   Specially the way you’ve rendered the sky – the stars do look as if they’re real.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    (This started as a discussion on the ‘Rose’ thread, but I wandered off as usual) –

    @winston I didn’t watch much BG (Before Gap ?) Doctor Who either. I think I caught the first ever ep, became a minor fan of Patrick Troughton, then sort of lost track. Of course in those days, even home videotape (VHS etc) didn’t exist, so it was a case of catch the episode when screened, or maybe on its repeat a few days later, or miss it ‘forever’. Being a fan of anything was hard work in those days!

    I caught just a few eps of Blakes 7 first time round. They re-ran it in the 80’s and I used to dash home from work to tape it on my new home VHS recorder. Got a few dirty looks from the boss when I rocketed out the door at 4.30 every Thursday afternoon (of course he didn’t notice that I wasn’t in such a hurry any other day). I couldn’t possibly explain that it was because I had to catch a sci-fi program.

    Kinda hard to imagine now we have DVD’s and Youtube (and of course I now have all B7 on DVD). I’m so glad to have survived until now, when I can access more things I’m interested in than I can possibly watch.

    For another example, railways. I love trains, and steam trains above all. I used to catch ‘Great Railway Journeys’ religiously (and scream at the TV when they wasted precious screentime blathering on about ‘human interest’ stuff instead of showing footage of the locomotive or train). And now, there are thousands of hours of steam locos and ‘cabride’ videos on Youtube, more than I could ever watch.

    (By the way, why has Who never used a period steam train?   I’m sure there are any number of preserved railways who would be falling over themselves to have a visit from Who, just for the publicity).

    janetteB @janetteb

    @dr-nao Thank you for sharing the image. It is lovely. I really like the use of colour. Vortis is mentioned in An Adventure in Space and Time when the “Doctor” is learning his lines.

    @dentarthurdent I was travelling os when video recorders hit the market and so a VCR was my first major purchase on returning to oz (I relied upon flatmates to have a television.) It became a necessity in 2nd yr Uni when I started Cinema Studies. I was working a lot of nights in hospitality and so would have missed a lot of films that I needed to see. We were able to record a lot of old favourites including Blake’s 7, Dr Who, Omega Factor, Lost in Space all of which we forced our kids to watch.

    A Dr Who story set on a steam train does sound like an overlooked opportunity. Likewise I would like to see a bi plane in Dr Who.



    AmeliaG @ameliag

    Hello everyone,!!

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