On The Sofa (10)
This topic contains 1,123 replies, has 77 voices, and was last updated by Devilishrobby 5 months, 1 week ago.
1 January 2020 at 17:47 #68713Craig @craigEmperor
This is a place to congregate, somewhere to “hang out”. It’s a topic for general chat about anything you want, and a place for new members to pop in and say “hello” without worrying about making any real contribution (we know that your first post can sometimes feel daunting). We’d love to hear from you all. We’re very friendly.
Conversations on the previous ‘sofa’ can be found here.3 January 2020 at 17:40 #68787IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant
Two Whos talking Who (don’t know what event)…5 January 2020 at 07:38 #68820PhaseShift @phaseshiftTime Lord
I’d like to apologize to all members for my absence. Dysfunctional kidneys seems a poor response, but there you go. I hope to touch on why I think Chibnallls first series is small “c” conservative, Dracula is brilliant, and why Worzel Gummidge could be the saviour of humankind;-) in forthcoming posts. I’m catching up!7 January 2020 at 01:55 #68874
Nice new sofa!7 January 2020 at 10:56 #68878Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip
Sorry to hear that. Disobedient kidneys can be a Bad Thing, so I hope it’s now under control. Lovely to see you back
So far I’m up to two-thirds of episode 1 of Dracula and it seems very good. However, I also had a gift of Season One of Star Trek: Discovery, so after months of no telly at all, I’m suddenly in the position of trying to find time to watch everything.7 January 2020 at 22:12 #68882Mudlark @mudlark
Good to see you back again, and commiserations over the dysfunctional kidneys – quite enough to make life miserable, I know, and to explain your absence from the Forum. I hope that your reappearance means that they are now working as they should or are at least under control, and that you are feeling better.
Yes, Dracula is brilliant. That together with the first episode of the new Doctor Who series constituted a very rich diet for the first day of a new year, but worth any indigestion.8 January 2020 at 07:29 #68892PhaseShift @phaseshiftTime Lord
Thanks for the well wishes. Not there quite yet, health-wise but an end is at least in sight.
Look forward to reading your thoughts on Dracula, there is a small discussion on the TV thread which I’m going to contribute to at the weekend. I’d also be interested to hear what you think of Star Trek Disco @bluesqueakpip. I’ve seen both series, so no spoilers. 😉9 January 2020 at 14:33 #68929Rob @rob
Wanders in as if I’ve never been absent
Looks for personalised Dr Who coffee mug behind sofa
Wanders out muttering
Waves at all 😃10 January 2020 at 15:12 #68942Vervain @vervain
Hello – I’m Sal, I live in London am 37 at time of writing and I’ve been watching since the mid 90’s – furtively exchanging vhs’s at school.11 January 2020 at 03:58 #68947
@vervain Hello to you too! Welcome to the site and to the sofa, it has a comfy new couch. I live in Ontario, Canada and I am fairly new to Who. I started watching in 2005 with the 9th Doctor but I had seen a few BG episodes growing up and I have tried to watch as many as I can. It is nice here with a lot of nice folks so I hope you like it.13 January 2020 at 03:55 #69008
Hello fellow Whovians!
Waves awkwardly at nobody because there is nobody here. 🙂
My earliest Doctor Who memories are watching in the early 1980s with my “cool” uncle. The same uncle that introduced me to the writings of Douglas Adams when I was young. Thank you uncle Rodney!
So for me, it all started with that crazy Tom Baker and his amazing scarf that seemed like it was infinite just like Doctor Who.
Being so young, I’m not sure what I enjoyed about the show other than the fact that it was shown on our PBS station very late at night. Which is our publicly funded network here in the States. Publicly funded for now, don’t get me started on the politicians who are always trying to cut funding for this because of the so-called “Left” leanings of PBS.
Also…..K-9. Where can I get a robotic dog like that?
If anybody has any questions for me, like “Who left the door open?” or “Why does my nose itch?”….send me a note or put it here and I’ll answer them to the best of my ability.19 January 2020 at 18:18 #69226Harrykeogh @harrykeogh
My ‘ Doctor’ is Jon Pertwee – I recall Patrick vaguely, but my memories are limited and tainted by watching him later on!
Loving Jodie, but have to admit to struggling with Chibnall’s dialogue/constant explanations through the Doctor, of the plot lines and episode ‘messages’.
HK19 January 2020 at 19:30 #69227
Colony in Space – Quick Summery
Ruthless mining company (In space!) uses fake monster attacks to drive away colonists so they can richer faster. Oh yeah, the Master wants a Doomsday weapon (Who doesn’t?).
You’re right, no message there about corporate greed or using fear to achieve your goals……carry on. 🙂20 January 2020 at 13:56 #69256Harrykeogh @harrykeogh
Firstly, check your spelling.
Secondly, you are missing the point entirely – no issue or argument that Dr Who has been used to spread messages. What is different about Chibnall is his insistence of a close up on the Doctor at the end of each episode as she explains the message in words of one syllable virtually direct to camera……jog on.20 January 2020 at 14:54 #69257
Sorry, I was on my phone.
So, you’re not opposed to messages just the style of delivery? I can’t argue with that, I preferred Moffat’s style myself.
I’m blaming any typos this time on my fat cat. 🙂26 January 2020 at 12:56 #69367Sorfty @sorfty
Hello, I’m a new member. Anyone who wants to have a look at my blog can look here https://matthewsorflatenwriter.wordpress.com/spyfall-part-1-review/6 February 2020 at 17:17 #69587blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave
Watched “The Empty Child” two-parter again last night, in part because of the use of the idea of the vulnerable child (in light of the recent references to the Timeless Child). Had not seen it for ages, and was struck by both its pacing and its juxtaposition of rather corny humour with a rather frightening sense of dread. To me, it did not really work as well as it should have. But the main thing that struck me was that, given that it was a Moffat-written story, it introduced both Captain Jack and psychic notepaper to “Who”. Is there anything in AG “Who” that Moffat is not responsible for? It also struck me that the Whittaker Doctor is the only AG Doctor that Moffat has not written for. Make of that what you will.7 February 2020 at 06:00 #69597Beechgirl10 @beechgirl10
Hey y’all I’m a newbie to the forum but not DW. I started watching around 7 years ago but I made sure to start with the 9th Doc and only got as far as the 12th before I had to stop because I live in the US where it’s suuuuper hard to watch Doctor Who… Ugh.
I am a major nerd in a lot of areas and I need nerdy friends so this is where I’ve come LOL.
Message me anytime to chat!7 February 2020 at 17:55 #69602Whisht @whisht
@beechgirl10 – welcome!
Feel free to chat about any of the episodes, but in case you didn’t know, if you wanted to tell how you came across Who, then there’s a ‘Memories’ thread.
(though it ain’t obligatory – I don’t think I ever did!)
Hope you have fun!8 February 2020 at 03:13 #69605
@beechgirl10 Hello and welcome from a neighbour up in Canada and a fellow nerd and Whovian. I think you have landed in the right place. Have fun reading and commenting on all the episodes you have watched. They go back to the 9th Doctor and I learned a lot about the Doctor that way. There are days of reading here. There is a place for music and one to discuss other shows and lots more. Have fun and have a good day.8 February 2020 at 08:33 #69607Rob @rob
Wandering through the Tesco Express on Thursday evening whilst hunter gathering for my evening meal when my phone received a message. The alert for this is the Tardis whoosh whoosh
One of the lads who worked there, looked at me and said “You won’t fit that back into your pocket”, we shared some Dr related chat
Dr Who all about making connections9 February 2020 at 23:33 #69627Beechgirl10 @beechgirl1016 February 2020 at 12:22 #69692
I’m rewatching all of post-gap Who with my 11 year old son. Although I’ve probably seen every episode at least twice already, this will be the first time I’ve gone through the lot in order since it first came out. My boy has seen quite a few episodes as well a few years back but I suspect he was too young to really follow it. I’m going to post some various notes here, basically things that I hadn’t noticed on previous viewings, or whatever.
We’re five eps in now. I’d forgotten how many references to the Time War there were in the early part of Season 9: the Nestene Consciousness in “Rose” and the Gelth in “The Unquiet Dead” were both fugitives of the war, in a sense.
In “Rose”, the 9th Doctor sees his reflection for the first time. The 9th’s manic avoidance of discussion of his home is fitting, but it occurred to me that he got a fair bit done before checking his appearance out: seeing JFK’s assassination, the eruption of Krakatoa, the sinking of the Titanic. Maybe this could be explained by a mad rush to help as many people as he could after the events of TDOTD…
I’ve never been a huge fan of “Aliens of London”/”World War Three”, but having seen them again they play a a role in terms of the players’ relationships: Mickey starts to prove himself, Jackie resent the Doctor, we gather that the Doctor just accepts that he is endangering Rose’s life. My son wants to know why the Doctor calls Mickey an idiot: he thinks it’s unfair. (Then again, new-Who Doctor shows at least some contempt to all Earthling males, at least until the 13th shows up).
Gwyneth in “The Unquiet Dead” is played by Eve Myles, and I do recall the resemblance of this character to Gwen is commented on by the 10th Doctor in Season 4. What I did forget is that Toshiko Sato from Torchwood (played by Naoko Mori) appears in “Aliens of London”.
(By the by: Harriet Jones and Mickey Smith. Goddamn it … I know Smith and Jones are common names but there are statistically unlikely number of Smiths and Joneses among the main characters of Doctor Who, at least the ones I care about. Jo Grant became Jo Jones after marriage, Sarah Jane Smith (and her family). Mickey Smith, Martha Jones (and her family), Ianto Jones, Harriet Jones. The Doctor’s fake name was John Smith. Then again I suppose there are a few real life folks of those names involved in the DWU: Matt Smith, John Smith was CEO of BBC Worldwide through much of the new era, Finn Jones played Santiago Jones etc. )
One tidy call-forward, perhaps accidental, from “The Unquiet Dead” is when Dickens says he is “condemned to repeat myself for all eternity”. It made me think of Dickens stuck at two minutes past five in “The Wedding of River Song”: “Well, all I can say now is that it involves ghosts, and the past, the present and future, all at the same time”.18 February 2020 at 02:07 #69721
This is going to be a long post as I have only just caught up with the new Sofa thread and there is much to comment on. (I have been making notes as I read through.)
@phaseshift, Sorry to hear about the health problems. Hope you will soon be fully recovered. Good to have you back on the forum.
@rob Hi. Good to have you back.
@peacefrog Welcome. Too many government are attacking public broadcasters at the moment, because they think anything not owned by their coal-hugging mates (mostly Rupert) is “left” and they consider that public ownership of anything is a offence because it is denying their other tax avoiding mates the opportunity to profit from the public purse. Don’t get me started or I’ll sound like J.W. Doc at the end of every episode. Opps you just did. 🙂
Tom Baker was also my first Doc. Wonderful times.
@harrykeogh Welcome I get your point about the heavy handed “messages” in the recent series. I always thought it not possible to be too didactic but sometimes recently I have questioned that. The problem is one of “show, don’t tell”. The episodes do a good job of “showing” and so there is no need to “tell” as well. By “telling” that which has already been shown they are more likely to negate the message because it comes across as patronising which is a shame, and frustrating because the message is good.
@blenkinsopthebrave I rewatched Empty Child/Doctor Dances recently too and really enjoyed it. I thought it held up well still A+ episodes in my reckoning. J.W.Doc does indeed need a Moffat story. As yet none of there have been no stand out episodes, nothing beyond a B+ but there have been no real fails either so I guess at least there is balance.
@beechgirl10 Welcome to the forum. You will find friends here.
And I have come to the end of my notes. Hopefully I will be able to keep up now.
Janette18 February 2020 at 11:42 #69729Anonymous @
Good morning all, I am new to the forum thanks for accepting my new membership.
I have a DAVROS D14VRS private car registration that I am looking to rehome to anyone who might be interested in buying it. Thought this might be a suitable place to find a doctor who fan!
Plate is on retention, all required dvla documents included and various sizes of pre printed plate, square import uk long and uk short. Document says
ASSIGNMENT FEE HAS ALREADY BEEN PAID so shouldn’t cost the £80 to put on a car just needs nominee detail changing to new owner.
Any interest please get in touch! My email is firstname.lastname@example.org
I am looking £550 for it or very near that figure.
Thanks for your time.
<p style=”text-align: center;”>Davros</p>19 February 2020 at 08:38 #69748
(Rewatching all of post-gap Who with my 11 year old son, continued: 1×06 to 1×08)
There is something of a thematic continuity between “Dalek” and “The Long Game”. In the first, Henry van Statten owns the Internet and controls the world. In the second, Jagrafress has controlled the news for 90 years, holding humanity back. The message in “The Long Game” is a little heavy handed…
They made an interesting choice in “Dalek” to have the first Dalek episode show the beast in a somewhat sympathetic light, to the extent that the audience could almost feel sorry for it. This ep also opened the door to the various comparisons between The Doc and The Daleks.
Father’s Day remains one of my favourite stories of Series 1. It’s very relatable and a satisfying time-related tale. I’d quite forgotten that Mickey appears in it, and also had forgotten the tragic way the matter is resolved. My son was crying a bit.19 February 2020 at 12:20 #69751UncleWalter @unclewalter
New to the forum, and a “fallen away” Dr. Who watcher, not really coming back after this “gap” you mention.
Anyway, the latest television set I have came with built-in Roku and access to streaming services, and poking around I find the streaming service named “Pluto” has a “Classic Doctor Who” streaming channel. Amazing, at least to me.
While watching classic Tom Baker in the “Key to Time” series, the episode called “The Armageddon Factor,” in what might be called “Part Five” (of six), The Doctor meets another time lord, Drax, and Drax calls The Doctor by his name. which sounds like “Pheeta Sigma.”
So I guess The Doctor’s name was known since 1979, and the rest of the questions and controversy is……what?
I’d like to hear back from any dedicated Whovians for an explanation of the name controversy past this episode.19 February 2020 at 12:28 #69752UncleWalter @unclewalter
And while watching that episode of the “Key to Time” series, a Mary Tamm played Romana, a female time lord, and in a different part, the actor Lalla Ward, went on to also play time lord Romana after some sort of forced regeneration stuff.
Not sure why they went missing from your “Female Time Lord Retrospective” that displays female time lords from even earlier episodes.19 February 2020 at 13:09 #69754Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip
Mary Tamm and Lalla Ward haven’t gone missing – we simply haven’t got to them yet.19 February 2020 at 14:29 #69755
Theta Sigma appears to have been a college nickname for the Doctor.19 February 2020 at 20:33 #69757Mudlark @mudlark
Since Theta and Sigma are letters in the earthling Greek alphabet, how likely is it that they constitute a Gallifreyan name 😉 At best they might approximate to the initials of his original name, but even that is pure speculation.
As a matter of interest, why haven’t you been tempted to follow the After Gap episodes? The quality is not entirely uniform, any more than was the quality of the pre-gap series, but they are well worth it on the whole, and are now fairly widely available.20 February 2020 at 11:50 #69763
(Rewatching all of post-gap Who with my 11 year old son, continued: 1×09 to 1×10)
I forgot to mention the nice choice of background radio music in Father’s Day: “Never Gonna Give You Up” and “Never Can Say Goodbye”.
Fair to say that The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances are my favourite Series 1 episodes, and also those of my boy. The concept is great, the story well written: the humour of Jack’s dialogue with The Doctor is always pleasing. My son incorrectly guessed that Jack was going to be another Time Lord.
One of my favourite exchanges in DW:
Rose: Doctor, that bomb.
Doctor: Taken care of it.
Also, seemingly one of the lewdest lines:
Jack: Much bigger on the inside.
Doctor: You’d better be.
The audience is further introduced to the Doctor’s motivations, by way of descriptions of other characters.
Doctor: (about Nancy) The way you look after all those kids. It’s because you lost somebody, isn’t it? You’re doing all this to make up for it.
Constantine: Before this war began, I was a father and a grandfather. Now I am neither. But I’m still a doctor.
Doctor: Yeah. I know the feeling.
That woman who complains to Dr Constantine (Richard Wilson) that her leg has grown back … I suppose previously she had one foot in the grave.24 February 2020 at 01:51 #69803BeeMartha @beemartha
Hello my fellow Whovians (😂I love calling the gang that just had to copy <span class=”useratname”>@peacefrog )</span>
I’m glad I’ve found the right forum to post on as a newbie 👋🏾 (🤦🏾♀️ Silly me I’ve been posting in the wrong topics)
My name is BeeMartha, I’m interested and curious to know how you became a Doctor Who fan and why you still are a fan of Doctor who or if your not as much of a fan as use to be.
To break the ice I became a Doctor Who fan because my mum was obsessed with the show and nobody could change the channel when it came on not even my Dad 😂😂that’s now I knew her love was deep so after a couple episodes the show grew on me was confusing and first but then I found myself enjoying the adventures and find the storylines really interesting and I’m still a fan because I’m always curious about who the next Doctor will be.25 February 2020 at 15:10 #69833
Hi, @beemartha. I was a fan as a very young lad in the late 1970s. The Pertwee and Tom Baker episodes were on regular repeat where I grew up, even into the early 1980s. (The Hartnell and Troughton era episodes were not shown during that time, presumably because no one wanted to watch black and white any more.) In my teenage years we got Davison, Colin Baker and McCoy, but 3 and 4 were still my favourites: Pertwee nerdy, cantakerous and kind, Baker otherworldly and somewhat pompous.25 February 2020 at 15:58 #69834
(Rewatching all of post-gap Who with my 11 year old son, continued: 1×11 to 1×13)
Boom Town is not among my favourite episodes, and the Slitheen aren’t my favourite aliens… but this episode does some important setting up. We’re re-introduced to the importance of the Rift mentioned in The Unquiet Dead, we’re shown some of the power of looking into the heart of the TARDIS. Perhaps my favourite part of the episode is the restaurant conversation between The Doctor and Blon Fel-Fotch: “You’re pleading for mercy out of a dead woman’s lips.”
One thing I did pick up from watching Boom Town, Bad Wolf and The Parting Of The Ways in succession is that Blon was dead right about The Doctor:
Blon: I spared her life.
The Doctor: You let one of them go, but that’s nothing new. Every now and then, a little victim’s spared because she smiled, because he’s got freckles, because they begged. And that’s how you live with yourself. That’s how you slaughter millions. Because once in a while, on a whim, if the wind’s in the right direction, you happen to be kind.
Blon: Only a killer would know that. Is that right? From what I’ve seen, your funny little happy go lucky little life leaves devastation in its wake. Always moving on because you dare not look back. Playing with so many peoples lives, you might as well be a god. And you’re right, Doctor. You’re absolutely right. Sometimes you let one go. Let me go.
And sure enough in Parting Of The Ways, The Doctor burns through a lot of lives to protect himself while he works on the weapon, even lying to the volunteers that their shells would be effective against the Daleks. But one, just one, he decides to spare: Rose, perversely because he knew she’d never ask to leave his side. In the end, he can’t go through with his plan (to commit double-genocide … again.)
God how I wish RTD had not gone with the Reality TV parody angle in Bad Wolf. He could have come up with TV shows that hinted at that cultural phenomenon without referencing specific shows. Embarrassing, it is: monumental Zeerust. I never watched Big Brother or What Not To Wear but I did watch Weakest Link back in the day. Fortunately my son’s never heard of those shows so for him it was just random whatever.
The horrific story of The Controller gave the new audience a bit more reason to hate the Daleks: they’re not just combatants on one side of a war; they do things no creatures with morals would do.
In Parting Of The Ways, I have to say the Daleks’ plan seemed somewhat convoluted. They could probably have just put all their efforts into building the army rather than running some bizarro TV network. Slowing down development might not have helped them much. Interesting that these Daleks are human hybrids. There’s another human-dalek hybrid, of a sort, in Daleks In Manhattan. But in Heaven Sent, The Doctor says, “Nothing is half Dalek. The Daleks would never allow that.” (shrugs)
The Doctor sets the tone for the whole of new Who by giving up a regeneration to save Rose.26 February 2020 at 14:36 #69855Anonymous @
<p style=”text-align: left;”>Hello, I’m new to the Forum, recommended by a twitter friend so thought I would come and say hello.</p>
I’ve been watching Doctor Who all my life, since I was three and three quarters back in 1980. I knock up a bit of digital fan art in my spare time, when I have any.
Yup, that’s about it.
Hi.27 February 2020 at 04:18 #69873
@thecityofjeff Hi. Welcome. I started watching in about 1978 when I was in my teens and was not scared of robot dogs. 🙂
Janette4 March 2020 at 01:26 #69977
(Rewatching all of post-gap Who with my 11 year old son, continued: 2×C to 2×1)
“Christmas Invasion” is the first Christmas special, and not a bad one. It’s a fine introduction, and sets up a number of things that are important or called back to in later episodes: The Doctor’s lost hand, his inability to resist big red buttons, the fall and later redemption of Harriet Jones, the limits of The Doctor’s mercy … even the Sycorax get another mention in “The Shakespeare Code”. Torchwood is heavily referenced here, as it is in so many of the Series 2 episodes.
“New Earth” is actually the first new Who episode not set on Earth or its immediate vicinity. My lad is always glad to see the Face of Boe for some reason. Despite all her crimes, The Doctor was good enough to give Cassandra a better ending than she deserved: interesting. Some people are pretty fussy about whether or not this or that action is in-character for The Doctor, but he is basically capricious and inconsistent: it’s not necessarily down to bad writing, some people are just like that. I love Cassandra’s line when she’s in The Doctor’s body: “I’m a man! Yummy. So many parts … and hardly used.”5 March 2020 at 13:52 #70006
Is this where newbies say hello? If so, hello. If not, may I sit down here on the sofa before I carry on looking?
I’m Nightingale, long-time fan of the show, sometime stalker of this and other forums (fora? forii?)5 March 2020 at 14:13 #70007JimTheFish @jimthefishTime Lord
Welcome! Enjoy the sofa!!5 March 2020 at 14:22 #70009
Thanks @jimthefish. How goes the dam?5 March 2020 at 14:25 #70010JimTheFish @jimthefishTime Lord
Still building it…. You can’t rush these things, you know….5 March 2020 at 16:55 #70014
Keep it up, Jim. I’ve just read your blog in defense of Steven Moffat. Very good stuff! We seem to like and dislike more or less the same episodes too! See you around.6 March 2020 at 02:07 #70022
@nightingale Hello from Canada! The sofa here is very comfy so welcome and sit right down. Have fun here it is a great place.6 March 2020 at 07:18 #70026
Thanks @winston, don’t mind if I do.6 March 2020 at 07:36 #70027Mark-Reach @mark-reach
Well, shove over then. Make room on the couch. I’m Mark from the States. I’ve been watching the show since Pertwee and still love it. I’m new to forums but I figure if the Doc can get a fancy new regen every now and again I can limber up my fingers for a post.6 March 2020 at 14:26 #70034
*edges along*6 March 2020 at 21:30 #70042
(Rewatching all of post-gap Who with my 11 year old son, continued: 2×2 to 2×3)
“Tooth and Claw”
Opening with Western monks doing Eastern martial arts: whacky, exciting start.
This is a historical episode but, unlike some others, it’s unlikely to teach youngsters anything important, though it is true that Albert had the Koh i Noor whittled down to perfect the cut.
This episode also shows the founding of Torchwood. I thought in retrospect it was interesting that they continued with the Bad Wolf references here. I suppose it makes sense that if she spread the message all throughout history, she would still encounter them _after_ (in her timeline) the events of “Parting of the Ways”.
As an older Whovian I was happy to let the nostalgia overwhelm me for this episode. Some people complain about fan service, but why? What’s bad about being served?
Quite aside from the pleasure of seeing Sarah and K9 again, this was a lovely episode. Plenty of humour, the Rose-Sarah dynamic was enjoyable. Poor Mickey … Rose did nothing to hide her disappointment when TD invited him for a trip. The beasties were suitably creepy but Anthony Head stole the show as Mr. Finch.
“I’m so old now. I used to have so much mercy. You get one warning. That was it.”7 March 2020 at 02:15 #70046
@mark-reach Hi and welcome to our friendly forum! It is a good place to be a Whovian.
@davros Both of those episodes are great although the wolf creature still scares me and makes me jump in “Tooth and Claw”. In the next episode “School Reunion” is one of my favourite scenes of all Who, Sarah Jane seeing the Tardis for the first time in many years.The music, the lighting and the acting are all perfect for that scene. Now I want to watch it again.
Mickey is the tin dog.7 March 2020 at 08:48 #70055
@winston and @davros We often quote the “tin dog” line. It was so good to see Sarah Jane again. She was my “first” companion and I always loved K.9 We have a plastic model on the mantle shelf in the living room. I really enjoyed Sarah Jane Adventure too. So much better than Torchwood. Tooth and Claw is a good episode too though I think that was when I began to reaslise that Rose can be very irritating and I disliked her treatment of Mickey too.
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