On The Sofa (9)

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This topic contains 701 replies, has 55 voices, and was last updated by  Kevin Who 2 hours, 35 minutes ago.

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  • #66249
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @kevinwho

    That’s why, in the opening scene, one tries to whang Sally Sparrow with a thrown rock or something.

    We don’t know who threw the rock. Might have been an angel, might have been some local kid who then found themselves figuring out how to survive in 1950’s Britain. There’s no paradox about the ‘Duck’, though. Sally wrote it down in her account of what happened, she gave that account to The Doctor, the Doctor then realised he needed to go to the house when it was getting its final coat of wallpaper and persuade the decorators to let him write ‘Duck’under the section of wallpaper that’s opposite to the window. Probably telling them it was a joke.

    If you have a time machine, the Bootstrap Paradox works. In fact, it’s no problem – the only problematical thing is the Doctor persuading a couple of bored decorators that it would be fun to leave a joke message under the wallpaper.

    Have you read ‘All Them Zombies’ by Robert Heinlein?

    #66256
    Kevin Who @kevinwho

    @thane16 @bluesqueakpip – Sorry my examples overwhelmed my main point.  I was just trying to applaud when the show is audacious.

    #66258
    Kevin Who @kevinwho

    @everybody – I apologize if I’m now coming across as some sourpuss refusing to engage.  I’m just depressed that a post I felt really good about turned out to be so bad.  I thought I’d come up with an interesting insight, and maybe I did, but I completely screwed up in trying to get it across.

    #66259
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @kevinwho

    Nothing to apologise for. It was an interesting post.

    In answer to your question, I think Who’s real strength is that it does something audacious every so often. It’s the episodes which push the envelope slightly that seem to get remembered. All of the ‘classic’ stories are atypical in some way or another. Genesis of the Daleks is unusual in that it makes the Nazi allusions so much more blatant than they ever were before and ramped up the moral dilemma aspect. City of Death because it’s the most full embrace of the pantomimic aspects of the Williams/Adams era. Ghost Light or Fenric because they re-embrace narrative complexity in the show.

    It’s the reason why Blink or Midnight or Heaven Sent are so good and stand out so much. It’s also the reason why It Takes You Away is by a country mile the best (although still flawed) episode of Series 11. (I’ve even changed my mind about the frog and kind of like it now.)

    #66265

    @kevinwho

    It’s not that it was uninteresting, but that a browse through the archive would see how heavily the ground has been covered.

    You may find it useful browse the blogs from a couple of years back about Buffy. Even non-fans know about the silent episode, the bonkers dream episode, the musical episode and the Willow-in-leather episode (OK, that last one might just be me). But even fans will cede there there are a few quite forgettable episodes along way in what remains one of the most important TV shows of the past 20 years. It is massively influential on RTD’s reboot of Doctor Who.

    It tends to be the episode that operate at a personal level  – the frightened teen Mum in the London Blitz (rooted in true stories of orphaned blitz kids); The haunted artist doomed to die (as good and age-appropriate study of depression as you will ever see); the courtesan haunted by a ghostly visitor and clockwork monsters (still, for me, the finest single episode of Who ever, BG or AG, because of how it so clearly brought the Doctor’s state of existential loneliness into focus); Amy being confronted with an impossible – and in the end deceitful – choice.

    And on the two cops you are simply wrong.

    Billy Shipton was central to the plot of Blink – without him, specifically, it would have fallen apart.

    The cop in Rosa was what Hannah Arendt called the Banality of Evil. Nothing interesting about him. He was just doing his job. If it had been another cop – or any other authority figure – the outcome would have been much the same. Nothing about him mattered that didn’t apply to pretty well every authority figure in Montgomery. He was a throughly banal racist, with a side-arm and a night stick.

    The bus driver, on the other hand…

    That said, Moffat is exceptionally gifted at economically fleshing out side characters (compare how we feel for Proper Dave, Other Dave and Miss Evangelista, compared to all of the side characters in 42).  But that really is a rare gift and with most writers the heavy lifting is left to the actors.

    BTW, @jimthefish on the subject of Buffy we have:

    The one with superpowers;

    The one who is handy in a scrap (with police skills rather than witch-fu);

    The one who is awkward, but will always give his best;

    The wise old fella with a strong moral compass.

    Too many in the Tardis? I don’t think so.

    #66281
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @pedant

    It’s an interesting analogy and I think it’s definitely there but (and this feels oddly like something we’ve discussed on the Buffy threads) its kind of comparing apples and oranges. Who has not been ensemble show for a long time and I suspect that the way its mythos has panned out means that it never can be again.

    The issue I think is that ensemble shows need a geography to ground them. Sunnydale. Angel Inc. Torchwood. Even if its something theoretically mobile like the Enterprise or Serenity. Who in its classic form doesn’t have that. The characters aren’t rooted in a place or a situation, they’re just dropped into new ones. They can’t flit between familiar locales interacting with characters other than the Doctor (in the way that, say, Xander and Willow or Cordelia could have moments not rooted in the A plot of a particular story). Probably the last time Who could have really managed this was during Pertwee’s Earthbound phase, I’d say. If Chibbers had decided to leave WhitDoc earthbound for all of Series 11, as it looked she might be initially, than I think this current companion configuration would have worked brilliantly.

    #66328
    G Man @swankycriminal

    I never really considered this being an earthbound season, (minus Pertwee for obvious reasons) because i’ve felt that half the stories through classic and revival have always taken place on earth whether past,present, or future anyways.

    With the seasons up til now, most of the companions did come from present time earth, and always had a reason to keep going back to present times to deal with family/work/prison guard (which i guess could be similar for Pertwee so maybe not minus his timeline?)

    So i guess i cant really see this being an earthbound when i perceive all of them being earthbound anyway…so its just normal appearance in my view, plus i can always throw in that the Doctor has spent so much time there and with human companions that Earth would be more homely for him than Gallifrey (No need for back story of Gallifrey and Doctor, more of a if you were born in one country but lived the majority of your life in another country adopting the cultural aspect type thing). I may be rambling off topic and not really contributing to the original statement here…

    #66330

    @jimthefish

    There are some interesting points to debate, except in this case where I am clearly right and you are clearly wrong(1).

     

     

     

     

    1. Name that episode.

    Now, who’s going to explain synchronised swimming?

    #66331
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @pedant

    oooh, I’m hearing Giles say it and I’m thinking still when he’s in school librarian mode, so I’m going to go for s2 or s3.

    (rummages around on IMDB.)

    I’m going to go for I Only Have Eyes For You…..

     

    #66332
    thane16 @thane16

    @kevinwho Who’s saying sorry? Who’s saying so??  Who? Who?

    LOL. No need! The above is Mss Evangelista who was ghost looping (not those words, though).

    Ah, @pedant Hannah Arendt. Now we’re talking.

    Yes, the entire good history of very good telly had many companions/friends/adventurers/fighters.

    Billy Shipton was central to the plot of Blink – without him, specifically, it would have fallen apart.

    That. Was. My. Point. You. Nicked. It.

    I was ALL over the Evangelista plot/person.  🙂

    Puro.

     

    #66333
    thane16 @thane16

    @jimthefish

    Frogs are cool 🙂

    #66335

    @thane16

    Fun fact: Talulah Riley, aka Miss Evangelista, was Elon Musk’s girlfriend for a while (I don’t think they married). They broke up twice.

    The second time Musk announced her death.

    She’s not dead, obv.

    He does some very cool stuff, but fuck me he’s a dickhead.

    That. Was. My. Point. You. Nicked. It.

    Liberated.

    #66339
    winston @winston

    @thane16      Frogs are very cool! I live on a creek so I have a lot of frogs and toads in my garden and I love them. My favourite thing is to see them in funny spots like on the nose of a statue or under a ornamental mushroom or even when they are really well hidden in my flowers. I make my husband take photos for me as I am crap at it. I have dozens of stupid frog pics.

    If I had no frogs and toads here I would have been carried away by mosquitoes long ago.

    #66342
    thane16 @thane16

    @pedant

    Yes, the entire good history of very good telly had many companions/friends/adventurers/fighters.

    @pedant . Clearly not at my best: these words together:  “good history” say it all.

    The second time Musk announced her death.

    Uhn huh. Wh? Why? What a twerp. Yes, he does cool things. Some seriously weird stories climb the hill of turds that is the internet (on occasion: clearly, sites like this are made of manna from heaven and thank god for that).

    @winston

    Frogs? Oh, lovely!  And your toads are OK? They don’t spit poison at all? I  forget they eat all the mozzies and sand flies which, after a stupendous day of planting, teaching Thane to prune the mock orange, and mulching, meant I was attacked by the buggers. Must stop scratching!

    We have the occasional bright green tree-frog but more and more often, the horrendous spitting North QLD toad. Over the past 20 years, our temperate semi-tropical climate has become more humid, the winters hardly noticeable.

    A gardening dude from our premier gardening show on the ABC lives in Brisbane and deduced that in 15 – 20 years we’ll be in a full tropical climate. Thus he’s re-sorted his garden to include more ferns, less colourful annuals (which don’t last long anymore) and avoids planting more lavender which presents me with a small problem…

    A year ago, a friend made some ceramic bunting, hung onto hard wood with strong ribbon and then nailed onto the front of the house: it spells out the rather sugary “Lavender Blue” which, considering our copious lavender and that  a portion of the house is blue, works well…..until the lavender dies from stifling humidity which it barely tolerates.

    I’m glad you have those lovely green frogs though. They are a special shade of green. Some of ours are dappled in yellow and brown. I don’t think ANY photos of frogs are stupid! Frogs are cool, remember. This shall now replace “fez’ are cool.” 🙂

    Just on that note @winston and @mudlark. I had a so-called landscaper, Simon Q, who said “let me trim your lavender.”

    Trim it, my ass. He bloomin’ hedged it -who hedges lavender?? Now, bits of it are all sticks growing at wild angles and this is outside the fence near the public footway. I feel like putting a sign up: “this was NOT my idea.”

    What would you both recommend? @pedant you’re a keen gardener/photographer.  Anyway to deal with it? It looks ridiculous, frankly and I’m thinking, considering it needs litres of water to tick over, that I should take off all the lavender blossoms and then pull all the ‘hedged’ plants out (there’s about 4 in total) and replace them: some are barely $3 each. Cheaper to do that than continually watering and fertilising them. As there’s a lot of clay soil, I constantly use nitrogen fertiliser and lime so the soil drains properly.

    People constantly walk past saying, “I love your garden” but that’s because a) no-one gardens around this area; b) they’re trying to make me feel better and c) the garden inside the fence (fence is just over 4.5 feet tall) is quite nice.

    Puro

    #66344
    Kevin Who @kevinwho

    @pedant

    And on the two cops you are simply wrong.

    Billy Shipton was central to the plot of Blink – without him, specifically, it would have fallen apart.

    The cop in Rosa…

    @everybody – See, this is why I apologized; I said in the original post the two detectives, not cops, and the one to compare Billy Shipton to wasn’t in Rosa, but in The Angels Take Manhattan (the private detective there) – but who (Who?) even noticed, when I used overly vivid examples, the kind that distract.

    Anyway, I’m glad the discussion stayed constructive, and I’ll try to do better next time.

    Although if you want to continue, what makes a character minor vs. major?  Importance to the plot, or screen time?  I was going with the latter, but I could be wrong.  If so I’ll apologize. 😀

    #66345
    Mudlark @mudlark

    @thane16 (puro)

    From your description I take it that the ‘landscaper’ has cut some (many?) of the stems of the lavender back to the bare wood, in which case they are very unlikely to sprout again. You could try cutting the bare stems back to ground level which might stimulate new growth from the base, but I would be inclined to just start again with new plants as you suggest.

    As you doubtless know, lavender is a south European/Mediterranean plant in origin and adapted for dry summers and well drained soils – the narrow, grey tinted leaves are a giveaway. I should think it could tolerate a certain degree of humidity provided the soil is very well drained, though if it looks like you are heading for a full-on tropical climate they might struggle.

    If your soil is heavy with a lot of clay I would suggest double digging and the incorporation of a *lot* of horticultural grit and plenty of organic material such as garden compost or well-rotted manure. Liming shouldn’t be necessary unless your soil is acidic (i.e. with a low pH). Rather than a nitrogen fertiliser, which just promotes leaf growth, I would incorporate an all-round general purpose fertiliser in the soil when planting – I normally use Blood Fish and Bone which contains a mix of nitrogen, phosphates and potash, and then leave well alone. Lavender doesn’t need a lot of feeding and clay soils have one advantage in that they retain nutrients much better than the kind of sandy loam I have in my garden.   Once the plants are well established they shouldn’t need watering either since they are well adapted to drought.

    Hope this helps. Happy gardening 🙂

    #66346
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @kevinwho

    What makes a character major or minor isn’t screen time, it’s their centrality to the plot. I once played a maid who had a huge amount of screen time – but I was basically ‘mobile furniture’ with a couple of lines. 🙂

    So I’d agree with everyone who’s said Billy Shipton was central to the plot of Blink. He’s the guy Sally Sparrow should have fallen in love with and married – but the Angels ripped them apart before their life together even got started. The way the script is written strongly hints that – the instant attraction, that she’s at his bedside when he’s dying. The point that he’s willing to do one heck of a lot of work, creating an entire career, to set up a situation where he can get the Doctor’s message to Sally. The reason it takes Sally so long to accept Larry in the role of boyfriend, rather than business partner.

    Sam Garner, otoh, is a minor character. He has a minor role – to show how the monster works. It’s a nice minor role – he gets to star in one of those pre-credits mini-stories that Moffat likes – but he’s not a major character, because you could take those mini-stories out almost entirely (as Chibnall has done this series) and replace them with a few lines in the main story.

    Take Sam Garner out of Angels in Manhattan, and you simply need a short exposition from Julius Grayle. Take Billy Shipton out of Blink and you immediately leave a massive hole in the plot. He’s her connection to the Doctor, and he’s her motivation to fight the Angels.

    #66349

    @kevinwho

    Ha! Yes – entirely my bad not yours. That’ll teach me to wander off for a while before replying. Crosses wires.

    So what @bluesqueakpip says.

    As to what is minor or not I would say:

    Moving furniture – extra;

    Moving furniture with a couple of lines, probably just imparting info to pro/antagonist – minor character (take a bow pip);

    Small role, but which moves the plot along- supporting player;

    Everyone else signified by the order on the main credits.

     

    #66350

    @thane16

    Yeah, lavender doesn’t generally respond well to hard pruning. If any young shoots are left it may recover, but I wouldn’t put money on it. Wait until the next growing seasons and see, otherwise it is start again time, as @mudlark says.

    #66354
    Kevin Who @kevinwho

    @pedant @bluesqueakpip

    Small role, but which moves the plot along- supporting player

    Very good point!!  That’s the term I should have used at the start.

    #66359
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    I have been so underwhelmed I couldn’t be bothered to comment until now.
    I can’t believe it, but the episodes keep getting worse. With the last one we can’t just blame the rubbish writing, the directing was down right amateur. You all have eyes and ears, you know what I’m saying.

    I have to go, with Doctor Who failing you know the universe is in a sad state, who knows what is going to happen to us all, but what ever it is it can’t be good.

    FFS will someone in the BBC rescue Doctor Who ! ! !

    #66360
    winston @winston

    @thane16  I cannot over-winter lavender outside so I have to dig it up and bring it indoors  or just replant every spring. I replant so I would just get rid of the bad plants and start again. I hate to throw out any plants so I have a patch in the back where I put plants that don’t want to grow anywhere else . Sometimes they surprise me and thrive so that patch now is rather pretty but overgrown. I can only weed so much!

    My toads are just plain brown guys and are very mellow. They definitely don’t spit although they will secret a poison liquid on your hands if you pick them up and if a dog tries to bite one the dog will foam at the mouth and drink a lot of water. It is just very bitter.We have about 10 varieties of frogs in this area but we have a creek and a wetland in our backyard so we are lucky to have a lot of animals but unlucky to have a lot of bitey insects too.

    #66362
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Mrs Blenkinsop and I just watched the last episode of series 10 in preparation for watching the last episode of series 11 tomorrow. We both agreed that we enjoyed it more than the first time we saw it. There is no denying that Moffat could do emotion (grand emotion) really well. The death(?) of Missy and the Master was done brilliantly (partly because of the question mark). The future of Bill and Heather was very effective. (Although, I have to confess that it would have been even more emotional for me if Bill had been there for more than one series.) Looking back on that episode, I feel that Moffat could not simply do grand emotion, but grand emotion that was almost operatic.

    Nonetheless, eagerly anticipating the last episode of series 11.

     

    #66367
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @seeoswald I’d say that was hands down the best episode of the series. It’s even managed to somewhat impress  some critics of the series, including two very different (can’t emphasise their difference enough) posters on this forum.

    So it’s interesting that you say that because broadly the consensus seems to be that the series has improved in the second half. In my opinion Chibnal has a clear talent for picking writers, dare I say it, who deliver better scripts than his own. As he’s the show runner, this is encouraging.

    When you say the direction was bad, what do you mean? What specifically struck you in the direction of this episode?

    #66368
    thane16 @thane16

    @miapatrick Agreed!  It’s a terrific episode which benefits from repeat viewings and shows the Doctor in a variety of acting poses: she’s quite “terrified” and yet manages to laugh while saying so without doing a Tennant:

    “this is the worst and most terrifying monster in the history of the universe (delivered with immense doctory-ness) and so run. Just run (delivered with no smile).

    @winston It sounds like a delightful area! I think bity insects are everywhere except NZ. In QLD, we don’t have many venomous spiders which is lucky. Monstrous hairy spiders, though. Oh.  And flying cockroaches in bathrooms. That’s really fun! One was stuck in Thane’s hair when he was three: we’d been away for 4 months and should’ve done a walk-around. Several had found their way up the plug hole which someone was supposed to ‘block’ for that very reason. That, and tiny snakes. Yick and shiver.

    @pedant @mudlark

    I knew you had ‘the knowledge.’ People wander past and say “gee, you must have time on your hands” and “your garden is SO gorgeous (it’s not)” and, pointing to lavender, “what’s this? Rosemary?”

    🙁   Thank you. I have to say “the grey leaves as a hint” wasn’t a hint for me -I really am clueless. Also, “double digging?”

    How does one achieve double digging? Is it like double jeopardy? 🙂  I use ‘sea-sol’ which is a fishy/carp ‘gunk’  I also use mushroom compost but truly, horse manure is  easy to obtain and smells less than other manure. Perhaps I should give cow manure a try?  One of my neighbours doesn’t speak to us and occasionally drops poo in our garden. I shall flush the b**** out with my Christmas present – colour CCTV cameras. Manure on her ‘side’ of the garden may well….OK. keep that to myself. **whistles**  I can spend all my time looking at the weirdos who walk the streets at night and leave poo in the lavender 🙁

    Ha! Snap.

    Puro

    #66369
    thane16 @thane16

    @miapatrick Agreed!  It’s a terrific episode which benefits from repeat viewings and shows the Doctor in a variety of acting poses: she’s quite “terrified” and yet manages to laugh while saying so without doing a Tennant:

    “this is the worst and most terrifying monster in the history of the universe (delivered with immense doctory-ness) and so run. Just run (delivered with no smile).

    @winston It sounds like a delightful area! I think bity insects are everywhere except NZ. In QLD, we don’t have many venomous spiders which is lucky. Monstrous hairy spiders, though. Oh.  And flying cockroaches in bathrooms. That’s really fun! One was stuck in Thane’s hair when he was three: we’d been away for 4 months and should’ve done a walk-around. Several had found their way up the plug hole which someone was supposed to ‘block’ for that very reason. That, and tiny snakes. Yick and shiver.

    @pedant @mudlark

    I knew you had ‘the knowledge.’ People wander past and say “gee, you must have time on your hands” and “your garden is SO gorgeous (it’s not)” and, pointing to lavender, “what’s this? Rosemary?”

    🙁   Thank you. I have to say “the grey leaves as a hint” wasn’t a hint for me -I really am clueless. Also, “double digging?”

    How does one achieve double digging? Is it like double jeopardy? 🙂  I use ‘sea-sol’ which is a fishy/carp ‘gunk’  I also use mushroom compost but truly, horse manure is  easy to obtain and smells less than other manure. Perhaps I should give cow manure a try?  One of my neighbours doesn’t speak to us and occasionally drops poo in our garden. I shall flush the b**** out with my Christmas present – colour CCTV cameras. Manure on her ‘side’ of the garden may well….OK. keep that to myself. **whistles**  I can spend all my time looking at the weirdos who walk the streets at night and leave poo in the lavender 🙁

    Ha! Snap.

    Puro

    #66370
    thane16 @thane16

    @mudlark

    Thank you for the lime information. See, I thought sand was ‘good’ for lavender. I would’ve stolen some from local primary school (they’re renovating and removing sand pits. God knows why: I used to love ’em) but thank you, you’ve saved me from a hopeless life of crime. I thought all clay was a bad thing. In any place (other than  1980s movies with Demi Moore & rather sad advanced education classes). Horticultural grit -I have plenty of that: metaphorical and literal.

    😀

    #66371
    thane16 @thane16

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    You’re multiplying? You’re not caught in a mirror by any chance?

     

     

    #66381
    Mudlark @mudlark

    @thane16

    It seems that you too are multiplying 🙂

    I have to say “the grey leaves as a hint” wasn’t a hint for me

    It’s all to do with conservation of moisture. narrow, greyish leaves with a thick surface – e.g. lavender, rosemary, santolina – retain moisture much better than large, soft leaves. Succulents, with thick, fleshy leaves and a leathery surface have evolved a different method.

    I thought sand was ‘good’ for lavender.

    Now you’ve got me confused. Sand tends to be acidic, if anything, Liming a soil, on the other hand, means adding an alkaline, calcareous substance – lime – to an acid soil to raise the pH and make it more fertile. Gardeners generally use slaked lime for the purpose.  Adding sand to a clay soil may help improve the texture and drainage a little, but adding coarse grit of the kind you should be able to obtain from any good garden centre is a much more efficient method. Clay soils are fertile once you have improved the drainage so that they don’t get water-logged in wet weather and bake hard in hot, dry weather. They are very good for growing roses, though that is not so relevant in your climate I would guess.

    Double digging is not nearly so risky as double jeopardy, though it does entail a certain amount of toil and sweat. It’s a technique for digging a garden plot to two spades’ depth, used for breaking previously uncultivated land as well as improving the drainage of heavy soils. I’ll send you a diagram.

     

    #66388
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Tonight’s title: The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos

    I wondered if the title contained a hidden message and tried rearranging the letters.

    I got as far as “Teetotal Koalas” which seemed promising…

    #66389
    Anonymous @

    Hi, first post here and not sure where to put it.

    So basically I’ve just started watching again from 9 and remembered that in Husbands of River Song they say that the TARDIS can’t dematerialise when a life form is both classed as inside and outside the TARDIS. So my question is does anyone know how the Doctor managed to move the TARDIS with auton Mickey’s head inside the TARDIS but body outside?

    I mean other than the obvious “The writers forgot” haha

    #66397
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @psychossassin I would assume an auton doesn’t count as a life form? They’re non organic and automated by a disembodied consciousness.

    #66440
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Have just moved this to Spoilers…just in case.

    #66441
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @blenkinsopthebrave and @craig

    Shouldn’t this discussion be in BBC Approved Spoilers?

    #66443
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @bluesqueakpip

    The same thought occurred to me as I posted it. All fixed.

     

    #66470
    cumquat @cumquat

    As a troll and hater, I am very distressed to being forced to write again to this distressingly “intelligent” (such a terrible word) group. It has been three years since I was forced to express my profound concerns about the appallingly civil tone of communication on this site. At the time, I pointed out (in a way that was clear to all right thinking trolls like myself) that there was something extremely worrying about the level of civility and the acceptance of alternative perspectives on this site. As a troll and hater, I found this profoundly disturbing.

    Because of changed circumstances, I am forced (however reluctantly) to write again.

    Much has changed since I communicated my concerns three years ago. Since then we have seen we have seen many changes that have advanced the voice of trolls and haters like myself. We have for example, seen the arrival of Brexit (not the manifestation of course, but the far more satisfying evidence of fear and confusion which is manna from heaven to trolls and haters like myself). We have seen, across to the former colonies, the arrival of the quintessence of everything that we haters and trolls stand for. I refer of course, to the truly wonderful new President of the former 13 colonies (and add-ons).

    And, perhaps of even more importance to haters and trolls such as myself, we have seen the acceptance of acronyms such as “PC” and, especially, “SJW”. I cannot possibly communicate how thrilled I am by this later acronym, as it is so perfectly designed to supplant actual detailed, reasoned and intelligent argument.

    You cannot believe how haters and trolls such as myself rejoice in this term, as it relieves us of the burden of having to mount a coherent and well-reasoned argument.

    And yet, in spite of the wonderful developments I have seen over the last three years, I find that on this site there is an actual flourishing of “reasoned” and “intelligent” (horrid words!) argument. I see it evident, not only in long standing contributors (who continue to insist on civility and a welcoming acceptance of alternative points of view), but I also see it evident in new participants to the “discussions” here. I even see it evident in younger posters! It would seem that indiscriminate use of phrases such as “SJW garbage” is failing to capture even the young. As a hater and troll, it shakes my faith in the future. What if this propensity to civility and this use of reason in the development of an argument were to catch on? For a hater and troll such as myself, it does not bear thinking about.

    For all these reasons, I write to this deplorable site (although some of my best friends are, indeed, “deplorables”) to communicate my profound unease at the level of intelligent discussion I have witnessed here.

    As one who is used to angry dismissals, and the wonderfully empty accusation of “SJW”, I trust I will not be forced to write again to this deplorable (well, anyway…) hotbed of “intelligent” and “civil” posts (what horrible terms) as I find evident on this site.

    Yours,

    Catherine Ursula Margaret Quat (Mrs.)

    Mother of five (basset hounds)

    #66478
    ichabod @ichabod

    @blenkinsopthebrave  Mrs Blenkinsop and I just watched the last episode of series 10 . . . Looking back on that episode, I feel that Moffat could not simply do grand emotion, but grand emotion that was almost operatic.

    Nothing “almost” about it — I think it’s the operatic intensity that really caught me up in the Moffat era, because I am a doomed sucker for that sort of thing done well (“Don Carlo”, anyone?  Zowie!).  So maybe I can ratchet my personal settings for that sort of thing down to, say, “Onegin”?  Romantic, but not Imperial scale, and feel easier with Whittaker/CC.

    @cumquat I trust I will not be forced to write again to this deplorable (well, anyway…) hotbed of “intelligent” and “civil” posts

    I think you’re quite safe on that score, oh Mother of Bassets!  We are disgracefully amiable around here . . .

    #66481
    idiotsavon @idiotsavon

    @cumquat

    “this propensity to civility and this use of reason in the development of an argument”

    Oh come on now that’s a bit strong. Did it never occur to you that some of us on here might not be the polite, reasonable people you take us for? Maybe we’re just really, really incompetent trolls.

    I come on here with every intention of trolling. It just never comes out right. I find myself inadvertently thinking about things, it’s incredibly frustrating. And frankly it hurts to be tarred with the “intelligent” brush.

    May I suggest that you post some kind of tutorial for the failing trolls amongst us?… Actually, I’d love to read that. Maybe you could call it C.U.M-F.A.Q.s 🙂

    #66484
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    @miapatrick Well Chibnall wrote episode 10 and in my book it’s one of the better episodes of this season, but really does not say much at all as this is easily the worst season ever. He has little to no talent IMHO.
    As for the directing of episode 9 the scenes with Ribbons, the moths etc dreadful. When he goes for the “tubular” and gets killed. Poor writing but even worse directing. The ending was mind blowingly awful, I almost threw-up in my mouth my stomach churned so much.

    Bring back the days of Terry Nation and his ilk.

    I will skip over this entire season the next time I watch Doctor Who from the beginning again.

    #66485
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    Anyone remember Blakes 7 ? Terry Nation wrote for that too.

    #66486
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @cumquat I can only apologise (and thus compound the wrong) but, like @idiotsavon, I can only say, I try, but I fail. For example, while I flexed my fingers over my laptop with the purpose of pouring out a torrent of abuse in response to your posting, I have all but lost control of my fingers which insist on asking you:

    Really five Basset Hounds? What are their little names?

    Now, if you inform me that that was just a joke, and you own no pets, or, worse still, cats, I think we could potentially get a decent flame war going here. Ball’s in your court.

    #66487
    thane16 @thane16

    @seeowald

    See how nobody cares?

    Binge watch clever DVDs would be my advice. Start with Rectify and you’ll understand, magically, the point of the penultimate episode (that means second-to-last)

    #66488

    Just to be clear, cumquat is not a sock puppet of me, but probably is a sock puppet of someone here.

     

     

    #66493
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @ichabod @miapatrick @pedant @idiotsavon

    Let’s just say I won’t be taking any action against the hilarious cumquat – it’s not me either though, by the way.

    Edit: As the new Doctor might say “Or is she?”

    #66495

    @craig @ichabod @miapatrick @pedant @idiotsavon

    Let’s play Finger The @cumquat

    No. Wait. That came out way more obscene than intended.

    Or did it?

    #66496
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Merry Christmas

    By Richard Wells: Twitter post

    #66501
    ichabod @ichabod

    @craig — JEEZ!  One look at your Xmas card, and I almost called the bomb squad!  At least now I’m awake, though, so thank you, and merry thingamabobs to you and all right back!

    #66502
    cumquat @cumquat

    I am forced to write again to this deplorable site, in light of the pathetic responses to the words of truth spoken by a troll and hater such as myself in my previous correspondence.

    What is revealed, by the unfortunate “discussions” between participants on this regrettable site, is the tendency to exhibit a sense of “community” (what a horrid word!). Attachment to such a notion brings with it, of course, attendant attributes which are, unfortunately, on full display in this awful place. These include practices such as taking alternative points of view seriously, even to the point of responding in a “calm”, “articulate”, and “reasoned” way to present an alternative for “consideration”. Such practices are, of course, anathema to a troll and hater such as myself. We trolls are not interested in “discussion” but in shouting angrily without the necessity for evidence, or “reasoned argument” (horrid term).

    If this is not enough, I have actually found that on this site, flowing from the horrid “discussions”, there is, being expressed, “congratulations”, “well wishes”, “humour” and even (and, as a hater and troll, it distresses me to even have to type these words) “a self-deprecating sense of humour”. All this, which is fetid to the hater and troll, is on full display here and is caused by the attachment to the horrid, horrid notion of “community”.

    What the “discussants” on the site fail to appreciate, is that we trolls care nothing for “community”. Like the toddler who drops its toy and screams, we are not mollified by being picked up and “reasoned” with. We have resisted the corruption of “maturity”. That is our strength. We have no need for the process of “intelligent reasoning” or indeed of a “self-deprecating sense of humour”. No, we are driven by our all-consuming sense of…Entitlement.

    As my late husband, Brian Unctious Michael Quat (no acceptor of PC rubbish, and in that sense, a true Troll’s Troll) would say to me:

    “I have always admired your enormous ARSE”.

    Yours,

    Catherine Ursula Margaret Quat (Mrs.)

    #66503
    Kevin Who @kevinwho

    @cumquat – I share your late husband’s admiration!  Wait, that doesn’t sound right–

    #66504
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    Can ANYONE explain the dribblings of thane16. It’s got me lost how that is a response to what I wrote?
    It’s possible we need random drug testing for visitors to this site.

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