On The Sofa (9)

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    syzygy @thane16


    Thank you, yes: ” “lofty” stars will move my way”  is in another translation I read.

    I heard some years ago that Horace’s odes could have him transported to high status: “if deeds of gods are being praised, do I absent myself – I, a second Pindar.”  —-and he is being modest, deliberately, I believe.

    With the lines and the so-called victory odes, there is a sense that Horace is messing with us a bit? And with the emphasis on metre would it be the Alcaic-rhythm or one applied to the Sapphics?

    This is probably a slightly nutty deviation from what I asked about before but I had a vague recollection of studying this a long time ago!



    I preferred it in the original Klingon.

    Mudlark @mudlark

    This site seems to have taken a dislike to me 🙁   That’s the third time in a row that it has messed up my post with code and then cast into oblivion when I tried to edit it.

    @thane 16

    lofty stars will move my way”  is either a translation so free as to significantly alter the sense – which is that Maecenas approval of him as a lyric poet will carry him to the utmost heights, or more probably a mistranslation.

    I suspect that the translator confused ferio (knock, strike against) with fero  (bear, carry, bring); took sublimi sidera (the lofty stars)to be the subject of the clause and either ignored vertice (with the crown of [my] head) or somehow took it to mean ‘my way’.  <i>Feriam</i> (I will/would knock) the verb, is in the first person singular and conjuctive, since it is dependent on the first clause ‘Quod si …. inseres‘ .  Sublimi sidera, adjective and noun are in the accusative case, therefore the objects that are being struck, and vertice (noun, ablative), is what they are being struck with.

    I twisted the clause round to make the stars the subject because the literal translation seemed somewhat clunky and unpoetic in English.

    As I said, I’m no authority on Horace or on Greek and Latin poetic metre, but I gather that he did deliberately adopt the metre of Alacaeus and Sappho in the Odes, and if I have understood the matter correctly, this poem is indeed an example of this.

    Now the garden is calling insistently, so even if this post emerges covered in code, it will have to stay that way

    Mudlark @mudlark

    @thane16  Syzygy

    The above post is addressed to you, but I’m not risking an edit to rectify my having messed up the @

    syzygy @thane16


    Sublimi vertice are in the ablative singular masculine but it’s vertex, as you identified, that points to “the crown or the top of the head”

    But allow the larks to call! I can imagine the birds tweeting and the Narcissi blooming (OK, I’m no poet). Here, it’s about 10 overnight now and 22 to 24 during sunny days -so much like your spring and summer.   Enjoy the happier parts of gardening. I’m currently talking sternly to my gardenia which without blossom, hasn’t entirely given up the ghost.

    Also, I’ve had the same problem with code & edits dropping away -in this one too. Grrgh.

    And thank you very much for your extremely helpful clarification.

    @pedant I think Yoda would claim it’s Galactic Basic, after all.



    • This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by  syzygy. Reason: more code. The nestines are here!
    Mudlark @mudlark


    Sublimi vertice are in the ablative singular masculine

    You are, of course, correct; very sloppy of me. I think that initially it did register subliminally that sublimi couldn’t relate to sidera,  but I must have been thinking more about the sense and not paying full attention to the grammar. Anyway, I told you my Latin was very rusty.

    Since sublimis also means exalted, I suppose a more accurate rendering would be: the crown of my head, exalted, touches the stars.

    The birds were certainly tweeting – mainly robins as far as I could tell. The blackbirds are often vocal, as are the blue tits and great tits and the occasional garden warbler, but I imagine by this time most of them are knackered keeping their growing families fed.  The narcissi are long over and all that is left of them is some limp and tatty foliage dying back. The bluebells are just about over, too, as are the peonies and forget-me-nots, weigela, camelia and choisya. Currently in flower are roses, iris, clematis, geraniums (by which I don’t mean pelargoniums), salvias, aquilegias and foxgloves plus, in the shrubbery, a rhododendron, an azalea and a viburnum.

    I managed two hours in the garden and got most of what I intended to do done before my back insisted I stop, but I’m forever behind and still attending to jobs which should have been done weeks ago. I yearn for the days when I could manage a whole day of heavy duty gardening without breaking a sweat, but the march of time is relentless and the years spent crouching in damp holes in all weathers have taken their toll.  Now I am resting with a refreshing gin and tonic before I have to rouse myself to prepare dinner.

    syzygy @thane16


    Since sublimis also means exalted, I suppose a more accurate rendering would be: the crown of my head, exalted, touches the stars.

    Oh yes, that’s the closest  -I checked Liddell and Scott -for some Greek while I was at it and didn’t get too far except for yet more variations of “puro” “”incendiary” and “burn” as well as “not dusty thus without effort.”

    Dead languages. Hard to carry on in secret than people thought.

    Oh you are just showing off now with everything that WAS in bloom and others NOW in bloom – my one camellia was and is in bloom. Other than some pretty annuals and some star …..somethings… 🙂

    G & T -sounds good but as it’s actually cold-ish (not to you lot -you’d raise a complete sweat and say “this is Winter?”) I will have tea. I fainted at the docs the other day. How embarrassing. So, honest to god, I thought, I’ll do some gardening, wander down, get a few necessary scripts and hang on it’s cold, so: T- shirt, nice cardigan, scarf and no bra. Why? no-one is going to need to see that, right?


    After I flopped to floor, paramedics arrive and drag me into the nurses room where the Doc insists on checking my breathing. FFS I was fine. I  hadn’t had breakfast. He said “no, you, you don’t have to apologise about undergarments to me.”

    Actually why was I apologetic? Not sure. Maybe because ‘the bag lady look” isn’t elegant.

    Also, the principal who discussed the school’s motto was not prepared to say “oh, wow, there were two typos and one is quite funny” instead I got a short disquisition about English being “imperfect.”

    But it was never about the perfection of English -it was about a) typos -hilarious and b) is Horace really copying Pindar (I think yes and no) and c) is he really being a bit snarky about how his poetics are adored by his patron Maecenas which then puts into perspective his latter double couplets.

    These are Thane’s educators. Actually no, I imagine the teachers would be no-where near this and look either miserable or arrogant in the face of such a small but interesting piece of history -including their ancient history teacher who I met 9 years ago and is a lovely lady but latinising away wouldn’t happen and I suppose that’s fine. They have many other skills.

    syzygy @thane16

    @mudlark (also I did not pick up on your “analgesia” statement & I apologise for that: I hope your back isn’t the problem again? I understand you can’t work in the garden for hours on end -at 52 I don’t because a) Crohns and b) it’s waaay too hot as per my anecdote above. But I can imagine, still, how beautiful yours must be by now) @janetteb  (cos you be Australian) and @blenkinsopthebrave (cos you be one too)

    I get Buffy, for some, aint be your ‘thang’, but the “rank, arrogant, amateur” sums up my feeling, at times, about education…the conservative party’s attitude (singular apostrophe for the recent ‘winners’ -the Liberal and National Party) to low taxes, high toll road costs, health and climate change. Thus, rank, arrogant etc…..

    The other day Thane performed at a State Carnival, his team won & he achieved ‘shadow’ position which is nice. But, in order to drive to the school where the ovals were (this is Brisbane Boys College with over 8 perfect fields and where costs are approximately $55K p/a, per child not including uniforms, overseas excursions, music costs & their ……soccer academy. Less said about that the better) & as we hadn’t purchased a toll tag (because we rarely drive that way) it cost a lot to drop him there at 7 am, go thru the toll again to work, then do it ALL again.

    The cost you’d think, OK, might be $8 per one way? Maybe even $25 per day. The 4 day carnival, including weekdays, where we didn’t stay,  drove to work & then back again, many hours later, cost……

    $420. Hahahahaha. Oh…shi*!

    So, I want, occasionally, to be like Willow here: but not really because she’s very, very bad. And whilst I knew fellow-watchers said “this is so beautifully foreshadowed even in Season 3 and  4, I didn’t pick that up fully until my 3rd re-watch.”

    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    Just a bit of drive-by bad news. Paul Darrow, best known as the mighty Avon in Blake’s 7, has passed away. He’ll also be remembered as Captain Hawkins in the Silurians and (more notoriously) as Tekker in Timelash. The man was a legend and will be sorely missed.

    Mudlark @mudlark


    Very sad news. I remember him chiefly in Blake’s 7 in which the sardonic and amoral Avon was my favourite character by far. Anti-heroes for me, every time, and he played the part so well.

    Mudlark @mudlark


    Oh you are just showing off now

    And the list wasn’t even complete 🙂

    Sorry to hear about the fainting episode, and commiserations. It’s a horrible feeling just before you black out and, as you say, very embarrassing when it happens in public. At one time I had quite a history of that kind of thing (low blood pressure) but not so much now, although it can be a near thing if I neglect meals and become hypoglycaemic. Breakfast is Important!

    As for my back, I’m afraid that is a constant, not something that comes and goes. An MRI scan several years ago revealed that my lumbar spine is a wreck and osteoarthritis doesn’t get any better; one just has to hope that it doesn’t get any worse. On a good day and wearing a back brace I can sometimes manage up to three hours in the garden, but I’m grateful that I seem to have a fairly high pain threshold.  As for working in the heat, I like it on the whole. In the summer of 1995 I double dug what was to become a large herbaceous border in temperatures of around 35C and was barely even aware of sweating until I came in to change my clothes and discovered that the waistband of my jeans was encrusted with salt from my evaporated perspiration!

    Reverting to Horace

    is he really being a bit snarky about how his poetics are adored by his patron Maecenas

    More than a bit, I should say. The whole thing appears knowingly (wink, wink) OTT.  Consider the opening couplet of the Ode in question:

    Maecenas atavis edite regibus                                                                                                                                                           O et praesidium et dulce decus meum

    As Disraeli observed in connection with his dealings with Queen Victoria: ‘Everyone likes flattery; and when you come to Royalty you should lay it on with a trowel’, and the same applied, no doubt, to wealthy patrons in the Roman world.  It certainly worked for Disraeli.

    Furthermore, if you consider the precise wording of the last line of the Ode without trying, as I did, to translate it into something which sounds vaguely poetic in English, there is a suspicion that Horace’s tongue may have been firmly in his cheek. The verb he chose was ferio which, in the literal English translation conjures the bathetic image of someone knocking their head on a low beam or door lintel, and who is to say that this is not what was intended for the contemporary readers and audience.  Presumably Maecenas was amused, even if not fooled.

    As for the shortcomings of modern schools and teachers, I’m not really qualified to comment, except that anecdotal evidence, including yours, suggests a contrast with what used to be. My contemporaries and I in England – at least those of us fortunate to qualify for a grammar school secondary education – had the benefit of teachers who for the most part were well qualified in the subjects they taught, even if they were not always particularly good at teaching, and the emphasis, at least in the final two years at my school, was on prodding us into think for ourselves, even if – especially if – it was counter to what our teachers had said in class. I can understand why Latin, as a language, is no longer taught in most schools, although it has merits as a discipline and I certainly learned a lot from it about the structure of languages in general, but I think a very basic grounding in Latin grammar and vocabulary might still be useful even now, if only to point out the Latin and Greek origin of many words in the English vocabulary – and incidentally prevent the ubiquitous misspelling of such words. Says the pedant  👿

    A third re-watch of Buffy? You converted me to Buffy and I binge watched it all, once, but I can’t even find time to keep up with all I want to on contemporary TV. Maybe it’s because I spend too much time reading novels – SF and other genres. And Willow is *not* a good example to follow – no benefit in being ‘professional’ if you are on the wrong path.

    syzygy @thane16


    Goodness! I apologise, I thought Buffy wasn’t to your liking (clearly I misunderstood & mixed that conversation -in my mind- with someone else. Hopefully not a conversation with myself because then we’re diving into deep waters of confusion and neural problems or merely ‘personal’ schizophrenia).

    The back does sound awful and clearly you don’t give up -many people with osteo here, particularly when the humidity is over 80% for several consecutive months, feel like they have no choice. A family member has it and she feels because she’s 6′ 1″ that her height made it worse. Not a clinical opinion, however.

    To work with a back brace or harness for 3 hours is frankly commendable. I really ‘got’ into soils since you showed me ‘double digging’ to the extent I used a number of soils, potting mixes included, as well as soil improvers, different fertilisers and labelled these areas with different coloured plastic straws.  I kept one area free from change &  found it most certainly would’ve benefited from my other efforts.

    So the Camellia is looking very good for the first time & the gardenia isn’t dead yet. That’s all one can say! A neighbour had one -paid for and planted by an arborist – but it died. I’m sure the arborist would’ve supplied the neighbour with many instructions for fertilising etc but gardenias here, with possibly clay or muddy soil, are troublesome. What annoys me is that good potting mixes have wetting agents. But I find that this hinders the plants. I had to remove an annual from a small pot only to discover the soil was very muddy, soggy and quite black.

    When I replanted I made sure to use more agro grit and plenty of perlite to bring in as much fresh air for circulation. But you’re dead right about something you mentioned earlier this year: rain water in barrels is brilliant and so much better than our tap water which smells a little, like the chlorine, that’s added to all water in the Brisbane City Council.

    The verb he chose was ferio which, in the literal English translation conjures the bathetic image of someone knocking their head on a low beam or door lintel

    You owe me a keyboard -or, specifically, the QWERT portion from spitting out my coffee! 🙂 Very good indeed. Could he use ‘ferivi’ if  going ‘all out’ unsubtle?

    I’ve had a look, now, at more than one translation and the most recent ones are rendered poorly, imo. For example, the “glowing” or “bright on” is transl by some as “lightly” which doesn’t work at all.

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    Saw the news this morning. Very sad indeed. Not only was he brilliant as Avon (indeed, his Avon was both magnetic and seductive–in a way perhaps not a million miles away from River Song) but there were other shows I remember him from. In particular, he he was great as Mr. Tallboy in the Lord Peter Wimsey Story–“Murder Must Advertise” from the early 70s. He will, indeed, be missed.


    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave


    I should also add that, as a Time Lord, you have been gone for more than five minutes…


    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord


    Yep, sorry about that. The etheric beam locators must be on the blink….

    Whisht @whisht

    ahh @jimthefish – thanks for leting us know about Paul Darrow.

    I was a bit young for Blakes 7 (or maybe not – maybe just not got chance to watch due to one telly and me being the youngest with little ability to choose what to watch!)

    I actually loved his character – it always seemed much more nuanced/ multi-dimensional than the others (not their or the other actors’ faults, he was the ‘bad guy’ in the ‘good guy’ team).

    Glad to see you back on the boards…

    doctor-levina @doctor-levina

    Good evening everyone!

    I am new to this site and figured I’d start over here by introducing myself 🙂 Obviously I am obsessed with Doctor Who, that’s why I am here and also maybe to make some friends who I can talk to about my addiction (because none of my study colleagues have seen it and they are quite frankly going nuts with my references; for instance:

    Friend A is trying to think of a way to talk to a guy she thinks is hot, but he doesn’t know her. What if she just said hi?

    My dumbass not knowing how to flirt: “Well worst case scenario, he’s gonna pull out a sonic screwdriver and make a hole into the ground under your feet and you go falling down. Anyway that’s not very likely, you’ll be fine!”)

    Aaanyway… Where was I? Yeah, about me – I live a pretty ordinary life, study a wonderfully interesting subject at university and work in a cinema (a cool cinema though, not a commercial one). The other day I built a sonic screwdriver with arduino. I also like writing stories, poems and songs. My username is actually inspired by one of the characters in a story I am working on right now, she is a robot-rabbit-person called Levina on a journey between crazy technology and crazy humans (currently) set in the 1910s.

    So that’s me, I hope I will be accepted in your midst and I can contribute something to the topics on here 🙂


    winston @winston

    @doctor-levina   Hi and welcome to the site. If you are obsessed with the Doctor than you came to the right place. There are days worth of reading here on almost every episode and topic ,with some really good conversations and theories on everything Who-ish.

    You will find young and old here and all are very welcoming and we all love Doctor Who! So come in put on your fez and enjoy all things Whovian.


    doctor-levina @doctor-levina

    @winston Thank you!

    One more thing, does anyone else have the doctors voice in their head commenting everything you do? XD Cause I think I am going nuts.

    Curtosius @curtosius

    Hi so I’m new here but I just had an idea on a theory if anyone else has had please let me know but could the name The Doctor be like a sworn oath the the high council or personal oath to a deity like a paladin? It came to me when the time of the doctor when the eleventh Siad that it wasn’t in the name of the doctor and previously said to Clara that isn’t me he’s a secret about John hurts war doctor and it struck me to keep the Doctors true name a secret to all he must do everything in the name of the doctor like an oath. This stops him from remembering his name unless circumstances show up like marring River song it was a quick theory probs wrong but you never know


    Is it just me, or would this dude, scaled up, make an awesome Who monster?

    White Plume Moth (Pterophorus pentadactyla)

    sophiaedward64 @sophiaedward64

    Great link.

    doctor-levina @doctor-levina

    @curtosius Welcome 🙂

    Him not being actually able to remember his name could be a cool twist but to be honest I think before it is reveiled no theory is more likely or less likely in my opinion because previously, so many crazy twists have happened regardless of how much sense they made with established rules. So I think it’s quite possible.

    Little anecdote about me reaching season 8 as of today: So I was really upset about all regenerations so far and it took me at least two episodes to start liking each doctor and also looking at the doctors in advance often made me wonder, just why? However Capaldi is just great. I was most irritated by the change in looks when I looked at the pictures, but the first episode had me right away. He plays great. And I love how Clara gets to shine in these episodes. I just watched Episode 4 and I am pretty sure I will cry when she leaves.

    winston @winston

    @pedant  That is a cool creature and would make a very excellent Who monster. Is it a moth because if it is I am already scared.Also nice picture.

    @doctor-levina   So you have reached the crusty ,sarcastic and cheeky 12th Doctor and isn’t he great. Have fun.



    It is, indeed, a White Plumed Moth. First time I have ever seen one. Zoom it and it is like it has a face.

    winston @winston

    @pedant  It does have a face and long fuzzy legs too. We have been getting a hummingbird moth to our lilac and it is also strange and wonderful. It has clear wings which beat so fast you can barely see them and it flies in and out of the flowers like a hummingbird and she comes out when the sun is shining. A very good mimic. Also the monarch and swallowtail butterflies love the lilac so it makes for great pics. Have a great day enjoying the little things that nature has to offer.

    winston @winston

    Hi all Whovians!  They  say that complaining about the weather is the great Canadian past time and not hockey at all and so complain I shall. This past winter I was complaining about  -40C temps as my toes were freezing. Today it was +35C with the humidity making it feel like +46C or so. I have lived within the same 100 miles all my life (lets just say a long time) and as an avid nature lover and camper and gardener and reasonable human being I know climate change when I feel it. I know the people in parts of Europe are also burning up while others flood and all over the world people and animals are suffering from climate changes.Complaining about weather has become a matter of life or death. I don’t know why I rant here to all you people it must be the heat……I am Canadian and I like the cold.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @winston It’s mid winter here, according to the calendar at least, but the sun is glowing, the air mild, birds are beginning work on nests and the husky has started malting. Sure this is South Australia and it is normal for trees to start to blossom in late July but this is early July, not normal at all.

    Meanwhile Australians have just voted back in our coal loving, anti environment, anti people, government. Even our not so political, swing voting neighbours are furious and I think the country-born Liberal voting next door neighbour is deeply disillusioned. (“Liberal” in Aus not “liberal” as in the dictionary definition about about the near opposite) Rural Australia tends to be very conservative but there is growing awareness finally that climate change is real but sadly not sufficient to effect voting trends.

    But the sun is shining and I have photos to take and so am taking advantage of this fine weather to head out with the camera and “hopefully” capture a good sunset over the plains.






    (General TV is for non-Who telly)

    4 episodes not at all on Earth and It Takes You Away largely in an alternate dimension….

    That’s actually about par for the course, same as Capaldi’s last season. The one before only had two non-Earth stories, the one before three (counting the Moon as Earth orbit, rather than alien). Pertwee’s Doctor was almost entirely Earth-bound.

    So you have to go back to season 7 to get more non-Earth stories.

    Roger429 @roger429

    So, let’s go back to more season 7 like content.  I realize we no longer have Douglas Adams to insert his wonderful imagination into the plots, but more planetary travel and way-out story lines could even boost the ratings.  I just think the writers are somehow being lazy by doing so much on Earth–after all this is not the Time Tunnel where the only movement is in time, there’s supposed to be space movement as well.  However, your points are well taken and I appreciate your input.  Thanks.



    Handy tip: if you are going to resort so early to the “lazy writers” trope you will get pretty short shrift around here.

    Let’s take Rosa, for example: a tale that had to accurately capture the pervasive and institutional racism of 1955 Alabama, in order that those unfamiliar with the story could understand the import of what was happening, and the potential consequences of the attempted tampering and at the same time doing this in a way that is entirely age-appropriate for the younger end of the audience to whom such racism is wholly alien, while ensuring that the banal dangers faced by the crew to not undercut the dramatic import of the bus scene. And all that while getting across that choices have consequences and that sometimes the real threat is much closer to home that you think.

    And all through that, satisfying whatever edicts have been send down by the higher-ups at the BBC (at the outset, for example, it was a requirement that all stories involved humans, more recently is would have been to broaden the audience for the next generation). And doing all of that within a budget (Doctor Who is one of the BBC’s most expensive shows, which is why ita production gets moved around – budgetary management).

    If you think that is lazy, then “lazy” does not mean what you think it means.

    syzygy @thane16

    @pedant @roger429

    Your comment makes sense @pedant. I forget that the BBC has a variety of “expectations” as the ABC does here. I think Rosa was great. And one more was awesome. But I liked quite a few. Rosa was studied in class -and is still being studied with the next round of students.

    Young Syzygy.

    Roger429 @roger429

    I think Rosa was good for what it was–a History Channel special Doctor Who.  My point was it would be nice to see the writers put in more special effects and new and creative ideas–not history lessons.  After all, Doctor Who is a fictional character and series, and not based on historical events.  At least that was my take on the last decades of  time lord adventures.  I’m aware, as you suggest, that budgetary concerns drive much of what can be produced, but Doctor Who traditions should also count for something.  Anyway, I appreciate everybodies feedback and stand humbled where I’ve offended anybodies sensibilities, sorry.  I prefer to play nice.

    syzygy @thane16


    I take your point. Agreed. But. Many of the original dr who stories actually were historical stories. At 17, I’ve seen, probably, 11 of these thru a period in ’63, ’69 with the Dr Original (Dr O not Doctor No!) & Pat Troughton.

    Man, were some SO slow. I realise today, when you put a piece like Rosa up against ANY episode in the 60s and 70s (& ’80s) you’ll end up with a realisation that a) there are no hard traditions with Who (it’s why it’s survived) b) many current eps in After Gap are brilliant compared to Before Gap c) the rambly dissonance of the early period with screamy chicks and a lecture-y doctor is gone & replaced with spectacular fantasy & beautiful CGI effects.

    I think there is no situated Who & almost no traditions. Well, OK, a few: there’s a Doctor who can be any gender or anyone, they ride in a Tardis they stole & they’re a bit lonely, live for thousands of years & like a companion/assistant/snogger/screamer/thinker/possible new Doctor (like Clara in the latter) to show “everywhere and everywhen” to.

    No worries @roger429! Don’t disappear.  🙂


    Roger429 @roger429

    I concur with every syllable of your diatribe. Maybe I’m just finicky about slow progression in a story line, and more interested in special effects action. I admit I find much of the Doctors before Tom Baker to be boring, along with their episodes. Overall I love the majority of the Doctors from Baker to Jodie. I completely agree with you that after the gap has great episodes, if not some of the best. I really like Tennant’s series for variety and special effects. So, I’m just a typical male addicted to action over dialogue. Can you forgive me? Thanks for your comments and insights. Have a spectacular evening.

    syzygy @thane16

    @roger429  OK. I will thanks. That’s a long way from here (evening). I’m about to go & play 2 football matches one after the other. So night and evening won’t come for another 6 hours!

    Action’s fine! I remember at 12 loving Buffy FOR the action. Later, there came (ahem) different elements I liked.

    I really liked Eccleston’s first episode “Rose” (and then compare that with “Rosa” -and that’s one stunning attribution and  comparison) because how darn BIG it was! The London wheel,  and in later episodes, Big Ben with Capt Jack on his invisible spaceship in the 2 parter “Are you my mummy?”  That scared me sh**less when I was 8.

    Then, we hand “Blink” and my jaw dropped. It dropped even further with Donna and the intro of River in The Silence in The Library and the magnificent library scenes. I found the 60s hard to take. As I got older I saw Troughton and Pertwee and was more into it?

    Mum (the other Syzygy) loved Pertwee’s era?  Her first post ever here (6 years ago) was about the long dim, creepy corridors, black and white, hushed instructions, terrifying mind-bending aliens. Her own mum had died in 1974 and so Mum, when 7  found solace in Pertwee’s “charm” and his dominant behaviour. It gave her somewhere to hide, someone she could follow. It was very important to her.

    I have a distant cousin who’s now 11,  felt the same way with our latest Doctor. She’s young, a genius and a girl, so I think she’s finally found someone who, like her is brilliant at maths or science and making things on adventures when she had almost no-one three  years ago she could relate to, who was feminine,  young, good looking and could talk a million miles an hour (which my cousin does. Bless her heart).


    Roger429 @roger429

    It’s nice to hear from you again.  May I ask what Syzygy stands for?  My handle is my first name–Roger, the answer to the universe–42, from Douglas Adams’ Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, and my late wife’s favorite nymber–9.  I remember my first experience with Doctor Who was having to “pirate” the local signal being sent from one radio tower to another by placing an antennae in the path of the signal and attaching the other end to my TV set.  In those days there was no cable tv, no internet, no dvds, but there was the beginning of satellite tv reception and the original VHS machines which played tape.  The radio towers received from the satellites and sent the signal to the local tv stations.  In those days we only got a 30 minute episode, but Monday thru Friday; and there would be four to six episodes to each story.  I’d race home to catch each episode and would be quite dejected if I missed an episode or even was late and missed the beginning of one.  I’m happy BBC America came to cable so I can dvr as many episodes as possible for a binge session.  I also have seen all episodes of Torchwood with Captain Jack.  But my next favorite British series after the Doctor is Red Dwarf. Have you seen Red Dwarf?  Can’t wait for your response and next bubbly essay.  Stay safe.

    syzygy @thane16


    Ah yes, so syzygy came from a show my son loves (and me too) called The OA. Except he had also learnt that, in astronomy, it’s an alignment of three bodies including a celestial body like the sun.

    Also, practically, my son and I are both holders of the same name -and in poetry, and music, particularly during Homeric times (the music, not necessarily the poetry: I’ll leave @mudlark to assess this as resident Latinist with whom I was having an interesting translatory discussion some months ago about a piece of generally- known poetry associated with Virgil and others…) singing prosody, that is pyrrhic prosody, has two short sylla-BUBBLES .  🙂

    It can also mean 2 completely different things. So, the Younger hasn’t known cassettes or VHS or home movies or transistors but I myself (the Elder) grew up somewhat like you. Except in Aus we had access to Doctor Who when I was a small girl. I loved the cold, dry and foreboding doctor in Pertwee. I actually liked his authoritarian nature.

    Says a lot about how I was brought up, I guess. Males were respected bread winners and women, like my mother, sewed and cooked, mended and chatted with other ladies for 40 minutes during the wash cycle before they’d rush back in the house, and with a wooden spoon, take the boiled sheets from the washer and feed them, with large rubber gloves, into the spinner.

    I really hated wash days. I was 3 foot nothing and big white sheets with steam coming off them being spun about always made me think the machine would lift off at precisely the point it reached an ‘apex’ of sound. After which I’d dive into my room and under my day bed/cot.

    I was a child easily frightened. I could never have been a Sarah, a Rose, a Martha or a Donna.

    In a sand pit, was the small child.  :ll





    Later, there came (ahem) different elements I liked.

    Is that the deep, rich storytelling drenched in metaphor and turning the mundane into the terrifying…

    ….or the hot chicks with superpowers?


    When talking to people it is courteous to tag  them (the “@” tag is under the profile picture). Not only does it make following conversations easier, also failure to tag is Troll Praxis 101, and I assume you don’t want to be associated with that.

    There’s a specific term for the sort of “piracy” you describe, but for the life of me I can’t remember it. It was heavily used in the early days of illegal filesharing, because analogue signals are unencrypted.

    Fun fact: Red Dwarf was specifically pitched as being doable on a very low, BBC-style budget. I often wonder if non-UK viewers appreciate just how funny the “Everyone remembers where they were the day Cliff Richard was shot” gag is.

    Roger429 @roger429

    Someone forget to take the Prozac? Good stone throwing though. Anyway,  I guess a low budget doesn’t produce a lack of special effects, which I believe was your rant previously. That would seem to point to the writer’s discretion, since Red Dwarf had plenty of special effects–my point. Dialogue can be fun to, like in Black Adder. I’ll consider your Emily Post after I reread my manual of etiquette. For now though I’ll consider the source.

    Whisht @whisht

    oh ffs the pair of you.

    Either get a room or rut somewhere else.

    @roger429 – its really interesting that you want more CGI in the episodes. Its not something that people often say, so I think its quite an interesting take.
    If you’d like (and your story about the antenna is incredible) please do add your experience to everyone else’s about how you found/fell in love with the Doctor over on the Memories thread.

    @pedant – I’ll leave something on the Music thread…

    Roger429 @roger429


    When I said I would like to see more special effects I didn’t necessarily mean CGI only; I believe spectacular stunts are considered special effects to the story line as well.  However, what I’m getting to is something to move along the story a little faster so it at least feels like we’re getting somewhere.  Special effects have a way of moving the storyline to another level or dimension if you will.  I would admit that not all stories are amenable to special effects.  Creative sets like the new inside look of the Tardis is a wonderful special effect that enhances the viewing experience.  At least I think so.  And outerspace, planetary, blackhole, alien spacecraft can all add to the ambience, even if only as background shots.  I’ve watched lots of Doctor Who stories that were helped by alien locations and background scenes.  But dialogue is also key.  I prefer glib and funny comments interspersed in the necessary dialogue, as opposed to lectures or moral platitudes–but that’s just my preference.  I’m aware others may like that sort of dialogue and I respect that as well.  Each to her own preferences.

    Now, if I crossed a line or made others unhappy with my responses I apologize hear and now.  I will endeavor to do better in the future.  Biologists say there are two life strategies–fight or flight.  I believe there is a third strategy.  Stand your ground (display a backbone) without resorting to shaking of fists or running away with tail between the legs.  This third strategy is how someone would respond to say a bully.  It is not meant to begin a confrontation.  I didn’t think I went to far, but apparently others believe I have.  So, please forgive my stiffnecked response, and thanks for the heads up.

    I’ll head over to the memories forum later to explain how it wasn’t illegal to put up the antenna until years later–when the law was enacted against such conduct.  Besides, the signal was going through my property at the time without my permission or recompense.  Why shouldn’t I use it?  Maybe I’m just rationalizing my conduct though. Well, thanks again for setting me straight and informing me of the other forum.  Have a spectacular day.

    syzygy @thane16

    @pedant  hehe. Ma-mah  yelled up at me to answer this. So, I have the computer (the only thing in the house that’s not my phone I can get internet on as the school computer locks you off the internet on certain hours of the weekend. We’re permanently locked out of youtube which is damn annoying as there are 1st class lectures on philosophy and no YT access to Ted Talks which is silly But  I’m trying to do the syllabubble thing (“Ma- mah”) with how people in England, the young Queen would say “pa -pah” or “grand-papah” with the accent on the last syllable? I’m now going to keep saying or writing  “syllabubble” ALL the time!!   🙂    🙂

    You know the bit in season 6 when people are looking at a dancer at the Bronze and it’s Dawn? And Xander gets embarrassed. I felt that too! Like she was my older sister. Xander  was seeing her through “I’m virtually her elder brother or young uncle.”

    @whisht @roger429

    I’m the younger one here. Not the mum Syzygy which she explained up top. Maybe we should be in the Pub for all this? So @roger429 the other area is part OF the Forum -it’s not another Forum. Mum found this Doctor. Forum when searching for answers to questions about the Smith Doctor. Being all musical  🙂 mum really likes the musical themes from the new “Doctor ” theme reaching back to Eccles and Tennant and the simple melodies of Donna and Clara. I remember the Clara theme, the others not too much and I also like Smith’s speeches….right, memory ‘thread’  @whisht. I’ll head there.

    The Younger One 😉

    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Terrance Dicks has just died. What a loss. He wrote some of the most memorable stories of the BG era, from the stunning War Games on. Not to mention his novelizaions and much more.

    It would  be great to gave a Dicks retrospective, particularly “The War Games”, for so many reasons.

    a great loss.


    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    In light of the passing of Terrance Dicks, it seemed appropriate share a short clip from the incomparable “The War Games”. And to remind us of of how we found out about The Time Lords.

    I really have to watch the whole thing again.


    winston @winston

    @blenkinsopthebrave    That is sad news. He was a great writer with a wonderful imagination who helped create the Whovian universe.I would get into a retrospective of his work on Who.

    RorySmith @rorysmith

    Great pioneers can’t live forever.

    New pioneers must push forward.

    janetteB @janetteb

    @blenkinsopthebrave and @winston Read many of his Who novelisations when I was younger.

    @pedant thank you for posting the link. That is a lovely “item”. Something nice on Twitter!!



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