Oxygen

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This topic contains 185 replies, has 40 voices, and was last updated by  Missy 2 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #57661
    MissRori @missrori

    @missy  Yes, it’s possible that Missy will be the one to restore the Doctor’s sight, especially since there’s been that fake-out regeneration for him in the trailers.

    @winston You make an excellent point, I think.  There is something up with Bill, it has to do with her mum, and I think the penny will drop on that soon.  Does she see ghosts/spirits?  Does she have a mental health condition?  The mind boggles…

    #57664
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    Hang on, just rewatching this episode and:

    ‘you’re missing it arn’t you.’

    ‘Competition.’

    ‘space.’

    one of the masters must be in the vault.

    also, a bigger build up to the space station than I remembered. Did the male astronaut hack in at the start?

    #57665
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    Also, I seem to recall someone talking about the fluid link being in a pre gap episode. Do we know that the ‘you’ who gave Nardole his orders is twelve?

    #57667
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    I like that Nardole remembered his ex’s name when Bill asked him to ‘shut his girlfriend up’.

    And also, Ganymede? Rosalind’s choice of the name makes contextual sense, why would a company use that name? Just th connection to Jupiter?

    #57670
    ichabod @ichabod

    @pedant  We also saw him lose his screwdriver.

    But the Tardis, as we saw in Hell Bent, can make him another, right?  Trouble is, how can he use it effectively if he can’t see?

    @janetteb   I wonder how much Nardole really knows about the Doctor.

    And v.v..

    @countscarlioni  Chris is sticking with a team he’s got used to working with on Broadchurch.

    Agh.  My heart sinks . . .

    @missrori   . . . it’s better for him that he (and Bill) experiences these things not only because so many others will benefit, but because he will be stronger for his hardships and secure in the knowledge that he will never be cruel and never be cowardly (and if he ever is he’ll make amends). I think this arc (and the Twelfth Doctor era) is going to come to a very powerful conclusion if he can see this inner strength through.  It’s sad, but beautiful.

    Yes!  And, to your point about deliberately cocking a snook at whoever set him to guarding the vault (even if it was  himself!), well, he’s a rebel TL when all’s said and done, and none of his losses and resultant wisdom is likely to change that.  He doesn’t take orders — even from himself.  I like your point about “guarding the one thing” that’s over-ridingly important being an experience he had with Clara, and it didn’t end well for him in some major respects (not that he remembers the emotional experience, just the raw details).  Is the Doctor nailed down to one task instead of roaming the universe putting his foot in it still “the Doctor”?

    #57673
    CountScarlioni @countscarlioni

    @ichabod   Agh.  My heart sinks . . .

    Yes, indeed! Talent over chums anyday.

    #57674
    janetteB @janetteb

    @icahabod and @countscarlioni My heart sank too when I read that.

    @missrori  and @winston Yes I think there is far more to Bill’s Mum than meets the eye. When I first saw the photo I thought Susan but then that might just reflect my own wishes to find out what became of her after the Doctor left her. I have always felt that there is an as yet to be developed story there. I agree there is more of a likeness to Clara. Like Winston I thought her calling out to her mother was surprising and certainly hinted to something more going on that is yet known.

    I am thinking that the Doctor’s promise may be about more than just watching the vault. If his promise was to watch over Bill (as I speculated somewhere probably on another thread), then he is free to travel provided she is with him.

    cheers

    Janette

    #57677
    Anonymous @

    @janetteb @missrori @winston  @morpho

    in my earlier posts of 57435 and 57501 I alluded to some weird muggle thing 🙂 of Bill talking to her mother in both Knock Knock and possibly also in The Pilot -I can’t imagine that would be a continuity thing for people to say “ooh look” – or would it?

    Who knows? But I like it. Also like what you said, Janette, regarding travelling -but with Bill – is the promise then kept?

    One more day!

    Thane and Puro

     

    #57678
    Missy @missy

    Thane and Puro    Of course there is. Secret Services are exactly that – secret.

    @thane15: Don’t be concerned, it’s all been said before since my meeting ages ago. She wasn’t a ‘mate’ by the way, just someone I was introduced to at a friends house over 10 years ago. She’d  retired from the job ( not an agent btw) about the same amount of years.   I did ask if I could tell friends about our conversation, and she said yes, none of it was classified. Funnily enough we watched a film/series a few years ago (can’t remember what) where a women barged into a house accompanied by several uniformed men. She told the occupants not to worry ‘the dogs’ would clear things up, it was time  they got an outing- or words to that affect. They were Intelligence officers.

    I appreciate your warning just the same.

    Missy

    #57679
    Missy @missy

    @janetteb   I am thinking that the Doctor’s promise may be about more than just watching the vault. If his promise was to watch over Bill (as I speculated somewhere probably on another thread), then he is free to travel provided she is with him.

    You could be right on the money there. Exciting isn’t it, all this speculation.

    As for : Chris is sticking with a team he’s got used to working with on Broadchurch.

    Agh.  My heart sinks . . quoth @ichabod.

    Being the coward I, when it comes to Peter Capaldi leaving,  I prefer not to think about it. does anyone else dread the final episode, be it 13 or Christmas special?

    Missy

    #57680
    Missy @missy

    @mirime:  Heh, heh, so did I once, but then I discovered actors whom I preferred, Peter Capaldi amongst them.

    Missy

    #57681
    Missy @missy

    Sorry just thought of something.  He’s he’s got River’s diary! Now how about that for intriguing?

    Thought I’d mention it.

    Missy

    #57682
    ichabod @ichabod

    @missy  I quoth it, all right; and I too dread ye xmas special (although I think “The Doctor Falls” will be the toughest go for me, Xmas being a calmer, more gentle denouement, perhaps).

    After that, all bets are off.  I suspect that the Broadchurch “chums” (wasn’t it only him and one other writer?) were simply too much of a dicey proposition after Moffat — and that may well have played into Capaldi’s decision to go.  I’d sure be concerned if I were in his place.  The show is, as Capaldi and Moffat have both said recently, a juggernaut — huge, important, and involving many people at many levels of decision making.  That can be exciting (as well as exhausting) and fun, if you’re working with your mates, with plenty of jokes and respect and creative spark in the air.

    But if important people you like and trust and know you can work with are gone, then it’s you and the juggernaut — and maybe you feel that you’ll be reduced to a cog in a gigantic machine rather than a creative whipping up great fun and games with your best mates.  Then it can become a mere job, a gig, a chore you get paid to do.

    But damn it, man!

    Let’s talk about River’s diary.

     

    #57683
    Anonymous @

    @missy @ichabod

    referring to our moderator and emperor it was said that anything relating to the next episode or in the “next time” trailer could be a spoiler.

    Mentions of particular items (ahem) of any blue kind possibly best left to our Spoiler thread.  🙂

    ~Puro doing a flounce~~~~

    #57684
    Mudlark @mudlark

    @missy

    we watched a film/series a few years ago (can’t remember what) where a women barged into a house accompanied by several uniformed men. She told the occupants not to worry ‘the dogs’ would clear things up, it was time  they got an outing- or words to that affect.

    Was it by any chance this you were thinking of?

    KATE: All these muscles, and they still don’t know how to knock. Sorry about the raucous entrance. Spike in Artron energy reading at this address. In the light of the last twenty four hours, we had to check it out, and the dogs do love a run out. Hello. Kate Stewart, head of scientific research at UNIT.

    From The Power of Three, in Amy’s and Rory’s house, where the Doctor has constructed a gizmo to try and analyse the mysterious black cubes and a squad from Unit burst in.

     

    #57685
    Anonymous @

    @missy

    Of course there is. Secret Services are exactly that – secret.  A

    Don’t be concerned, it’s all been said before since my meeting ages ago. She wasn’t a ‘mate’ by the way, just someone I was introduced to at a friends house over 10 years ago. She’d  retired from the job ( not an agent btw) about the same amount of years.   I did ask if I could tell friends about our conversation,   C and she said yes, none of it was classified  D

    OK, I’m just playing sillies with you  (possibly both the gin and tonic and the exciting trip to the shop in order to purchase a modem: Hallelujah!!).

    But note the letters: A contradicts  D;  C contradicts A;  B contradicts A  and D and to ‘B’  I’d add “but how do you know?”  😀

    I realise I should be in the Pub and will probably be letter bombed!

    <scurries behind sofa>

    (Puro)

    #57686

    @missy @ichabod

    That blue item has been mentioned already in the BBC Spoilers thread, where it belongs.

    @thane15

    Hallelujah, indeed!

    #57687
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Dr Who has a lot of orphans. I wonder which has more; Dickens or Who?

    Danny Pink was an orphan. Bill is an orphan. It’s certainly implied that the Doctor is an orphan (also from a ‘young age’).

    Tonnes of orphans in Thin Ice.

    orphan dr

    I don’t think anybody’s been suspicious about Bill’s foster mum, Moira, yet…

    Moira means destiny/fate, btw…..

    #57696
    Anonymous @

    @wolfweed

    Interesting!  In Oxygen, as Bill appears, Nardole says, “it’s Bill!”  The Doctor says, “Of course it’s Bill. Fate and me we have a thing.”

    Moira =fate.

    Ooh, like that!

    Thane

    #57699
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    I’ve only just watched Oxygen, and pretty much loved it. It’s strange to say, perhaps, but can anyone think of an episode of Doctor Who in recent times being this ‘hard sci-fi’ in approach?

    I think there are an astonishing number of references to other works (including Who history) in this but, unlike Smile a few weeks ago, I thought it produced something coherent and very direct from them.

    Pearl Mackie continues to be a compelling foil for Capaldi. I actually thought Nardole was a useful addition here as well. I think the revelation that his past is quite shady, coupled with his nervous tendencies but pragmatic ‘let’s get this over with’ style puts me in mind of Vila from Blake’s 7. I’m guaranteed to be drawn to him in other words and would guess at this point his own Arc will not end happily but with a certain nobility.

    A lot of people have mentioned Ark in Space, mainly I think for the Space Station design. I came away thinking of the follow up to that story set on station Nerva Beacon – Revenge of the Cybermen, because the basic nature of the body in a robot suit eerily echoes them.

    I’ll also say that the effect of the ‘suit virus’ that passes between suits and disables the wearers nervous system, that network of blackening lines on the face, is very similar to the Cybermen neurotrophic virus used in Moonbase and Revenge. I’m left with a haunting impression that this could actually have been the greatest Cyberman story that we’ve never seen in the modern era.

    Something else from the past that I’m surprised our Frobisher appreciation society pals @wolfweed @jimthefish and @frobisher didn’t mention – the run of Doctor Who comics for Six with the Penguin introduced the ‘Skeletoids’ basically a design for a space combat suit with AI. The AIs decided that the weak link in the ongoing strategy were the humans inside, so they kept them docile while they went about their business and until they went nice and gooey.

    skeletoids

    Ultimately though, I think it’s a delight to have that message that capitalism taken to its logical extreme sees its workers as easily disposable assets broadcast on a Saturday night. I wonder if Theresa May still claims to be a fan?

    Like @miapatrick , while I’m looking favourably at the initial batch of Episodes for message and essentially ‘doubling down’ on certain issues, I’m hoping that tonight’s episode by Moffat ups the bonkers level significantly. A conceptual trio of linked stories by Moffat, the writer of Kill the Moon and writer of God Complex may be just the ticket.

    #57703
    Mirime @mirime

    @missy there are a few actors I like and I am gutted that Capaldi is leaving. I don’t think I’ve been this upset about a regeneration since Tom Baker left and my parents had to reassure me that it was OK this new guy was still the Doctor!

    And yes, I’m dreading the final episode.

    #57704
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @phaseshift

    Good call on the Skeletoids. I imagine Alan McKenzie is already preparing his lawsuit…

    Also love:

    I wonder if Theresa May still claims to be a fan?

    fan girl

     

    #57708
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @wolfweed

    Hilarious isn’t it? I wonder if she knows that the comparison with Supreme Commander Servalan that a lot of people are riffing on now originates with Doctor Who performers and writers like Nicholas Pegg? (Click on the pic as it probably won’t show it all)

    I’m not on twitter, but I occasionally check out feeds for writers and directors on there. I thought @janetteb may enjoy this. Writer Jamie doing some bonkers theorising on his own episode!

    #57709
    ichabod @ichabod

    @wolfweed  Moira means destiny/fate, btw…..

    @thane15  Of course it’s Bill. Fate and me we have a thing.”

    I wondered.  Now I have the jitters.  Love it.  “Oxygen” was a breath of fresh air (?); we are *not* doomed, after all, to a season or mere fun and games (and, well, people being eaten by wood lice or nano-thingies or monster fish).  That was just a feint, a set-up for dark days ahead, I think*.  There’s nothing to restrain Moffat now, is there?  Nothing to lose.

    Go, man, GO!

    *Of course, if you don’t go to Khaza’dum, you will also die — just maybe not so soon.  But I think Mathieson knows that.

    #57745
    gamergirlavatar @gamergirlavatar

    @ichabod It’s nice to know I’m not the only one with the jitters. It was wonderful to watch Oxygen and get to the darker side of this season. While the other episodes this season were fine, there was just a feeling that they were going to be left behind very quickly and the season wouldn’t pick up until we saw something that will carry on throughout other episodes. Oxygen was that start and there was no wait till the last two episodes for it. Oxygen felt more surreal and, I feel awful saying (typing) this, but I love that The Doctor is blind because this can be developed over the course of the season and won’t be played like a fun adventure we’ll never return to. I can’t wait to see how The Doctor and the other characters adapted to this. My only fear is that this is proof that the 12th Doctor will be leaving soon. Peter and all the writers have made this doctor my favorite and I don’t want to see him go. Unfortunately, the more we see the development of this season and The Doctor, the closer we are losing him. I hope he stays around for season 11.

    #57754
    Missy @missy

    (Puro). Stop trying to blind me with science!  *huge grin*

    Gin and tonic, my favourite tipple, well, that and Champagne – or what passes as same. You? Hide behind the sofa? Never!

    @pedant: The ‘blue object’ mentioned by me, is in the flippin’ trailer. How can it be a spoiler? Or do you mean that I shouldn’t mention it anyway? Sounds a bit bonkers to me. Still, if them’s the rules.

    @wolfweed:  Moira means destiny/fate, btw….. 

    As @thane15 put it – Ooh, I like that!

    @mudlark: By George, you’ve got it!  Quite right.

    @mirime;  And yes, I’m dreading the final episode.

    It’s daft really, you’d think the man was going to die – he is in a way – and I’m not a happy bunny.

    @ichabodGo, man, GO!

    I’ll drink to that – gin and tonic anyone? Where or what is Khaza’dum,?

    @gamergirlavatar: You most definitely are NOT the only one with the jitters. It isn’t fair of us really, Chris Chibnall might do an excellent job, along with any other writers who want to have a go.  SM might also write the odd episode, you can’t keep a good man down- can you? Of course, my major worry is who is the next doctor.

    Missy

     

    #57758
    ichabod @ichabod

    @gamergirlavatar  (Good that) the Doctor is blind because this can be developed over the course of the season and won’t be played like a fun adventure we’ll never return to. I can’t wait to see how The Doctor and the other characters adapted to this.

    Interesting to see what he does with a condition that he can not talk his way out of.  It’s a bit like Samson with his hair cut: then what?  Sulk?  Rage?  Conceal and pretend, using secret work-arounds?  Retreat, keep everyone at arms’ length, refuse to ask for or accept help?  Brush it off with a quip and a laugh?  Go to ground, sleep all day?  Go to Ohila, or even Gallifrey, for a cure?  Give everybody orders to get him what he needs?  Have the Tardis build him a K-9 seeing eye dog?  Or a small seeing eye gadget that he wears on his shoulder that whispers in his ear?  Run away — because Bill is too upset (and guilty?) and he can’t stand it?  Make a Geordie-visor to semi-see with?

    All of the above?  Something completely different?  I want to see what Moffat and Capaldi will invent around this.  Moffat was so right to say, no quick cure — play it out.

    My man — YES!  Some fans complain that we never see a handicapped companion, so — here you are, then: a handicapped Doctor, and it’s not hangnails or a headache.  I love the choices that Moffat makes.  This one is classic: raise the stakes.  Doing so is rarely a mistake in fiction, but tone and timing are crucial to make it just enough but not too much — or not too too much.  Fascinating.  (And, weirdly enough, I don’t give a damn who the next Doctor will be — too caught up now in this 13’s fate and Bill’s, but that’s because PC is “my Doctor”).

    #57762
    Anonymous @

    erm @missy @pedant is simply mentioning what our esteemed emperor Craig said in another thread -anything in the ‘next time’ trailer is for the Spoilers only? Since I’ve been in this Forum that’s been the ‘rule’ 🙂

    Craig, though, isn’t the sort of person who has tonnes of rules! Still, as many members don’t watch the next time trailers -and they leave a big gap before it’s shown -that’s one good rule, in Craig’s opinion and in my own.

    Have a champagne on me in the Pub! I can’t drink that anymore -I fall to the floor!

    Puro

    #57763
    janetteB @janetteb

    @missy Khaza’dum is a location in Babylon Five, the home of the Shadows who are the big bad in that series. The captain is warned that if he goes there he will die. Of course he goes. The warning wasn’t frivilous, maybe a bit of a clue there from Matheison.

    @phaseshift love the photo merge too though I think Servalon had a lot more style. We were just watching a Doco about Blake’s 7 a couple of night ago and started a re watch but now I need to re watch Matheison’s stories and look for B.5 references. I have something noted some similiar themes in recent years but don’t recall just what and when at the moment.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #57899
    Missy @missy

    @janetteb; Thank you for that. I should have remembered, loved that show. also Blake’s Seven. Orac was great.

    Puro> Now I get it! Thing is, I naturally thought that everyone watched the trailers, but obviously not.
    Odd though, I could swear that The Pope was mentioned earlier? Thank you for your tactful and funny reply. In future i shall read the rules – all of them

    Missy

    #58135
    Momochrys @momochrys

    Ok so I don’t know if anyone has actually commented on the dr being blind as an absolute contradiction to the episode hell bent where Capaldi explains  how time lords are constantly repairing all they need is some energy in any form I am an avid fan going back to early seventies but im stumped over the blindness that continues into the next two episodes

     

    #58140
    Anonymous @

    @momochrys

    Hallooo and welcome! Yes, actually, above we did! I think the theories are that he may have used his regenerative abilities already (off screen) or that a regen ability could trigger ‘what’ or ‘who’ is in the vault and this evidence of the Dr’s weakness could potentially be disastrous.

    Thank you, Thane

    #58179
    Momochrys @momochrys

    Hi thank you for the information. I’d like to again say Steven Moffat has definitely been contradicted , please refer to Heaven Sent  S 9:E 11  And I quote ” People always get it wrong with Time Lords. We take forever to die. Even if we are to injured to regenerate. Every cell in our body keeps trying. Dying properly can take days. It’s why we like dying among our own kind they know not to bury us early.”  Please watch this episode first off its amazing acting and story line, second it shows  a lot off the doctors spirit.

    He can’t choose what cells respond when every cell in their bodies keeps trying ty.

     

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by  Momochrys. Reason: Mis info
    #58196
    Anonymous @

    @momochrys

    I disagree with “moffat has been definitely contradicted” . I know the quote of which you speak. I believe this blindness is not a regeneration issue -something else -a brain stem problem etc and the fact that if one lets  TL know regeneration is happening “one has to borrow something from the future and pay it back” which in the previous episode was made quite clear. Either he doesn’t want to appear weak  (obviously true) he doesn’t want to let another TL in the vault know and also as has been said: “I could lose an arm, a leg” and “regeneration is a tricky business”.

    Also, he may have simply “switched” if off -for a reason. Precedent setting, as it were.

    He may also think blindness is cool…….>

    Hope that helps,

    Puro

    #58197
    winston @winston

    @thane15 and @momochrys  The blindness thing is a tricky one to figure out,and the regeneration and healing rules are “fluid” In The Christmas Invasion the 10th Doctor explains that he was lucky that his hand was cut off while he was still regenerating so it grew back ,which sounded like it wouldn’t have if he was not regenning. So maybe some really bad injuries will only heal upon regenerating?  Sorry, I am sure this only muddies the already murky waters.

    #58247
    Missy @missy

    Perhaps as the only way he could regain his sight, would be to regenerate – and perhaps he didn’t want to yet?

    Just a thought.

    Missy

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