19 May 2017 at 14:31 #57661MissRori @missrori
@missy Yes, it’s possible that Missy will be the one to restore the Doctor’s sight, especially since there’s been that fake-out regeneration for him in the trailers.
@winston You make an excellent point, I think. There is something up with Bill, it has to do with her mum, and I think the penny will drop on that soon. Does she see ghosts/spirits? Does she have a mental health condition? The mind boggles…19 May 2017 at 19:48 #57664
Hang on, just rewatching this episode and:
‘you’re missing it arn’t you.’
one of the masters must be in the vault.
also, a bigger build up to the space station than I remembered. Did the male astronaut hack in at the start?19 May 2017 at 19:51 #57665
Also, I seem to recall someone talking about the fluid link being in a pre gap episode. Do we know that the ‘you’ who gave Nardole his orders is twelve?19 May 2017 at 20:04 #57667
I like that Nardole remembered his ex’s name when Bill asked him to ‘shut his girlfriend up’.
And also, Ganymede? Rosalind’s choice of the name makes contextual sense, why would a company use that name? Just th connection to Jupiter?20 May 2017 at 02:36 #57670
@pedant We also saw him lose his screwdriver.
But the Tardis, as we saw in Hell Bent, can make him another, right? Trouble is, how can he use it effectively if he can’t see?
@janetteb I wonder how much Nardole really knows about the Doctor.
@countscarlioni Chris is sticking with a team he’s got used to working with on Broadchurch.”
Agh. My heart sinks . . .
@missrori . . . it’s better for him that he (and Bill) experiences these things not only because so many others will benefit, but because he will be stronger for his hardships and secure in the knowledge that he will never be cruel and never be cowardly (and if he ever is he’ll make amends). I think this arc (and the Twelfth Doctor era) is going to come to a very powerful conclusion if he can see this inner strength through. It’s sad, but beautiful.
Yes! And, to your point about deliberately cocking a snook at whoever set him to guarding the vault (even if it was himself!), well, he’s a rebel TL when all’s said and done, and none of his losses and resultant wisdom is likely to change that. He doesn’t take orders — even from himself. I like your point about “guarding the one thing” that’s over-ridingly important being an experience he had with Clara, and it didn’t end well for him in some major respects (not that he remembers the emotional experience, just the raw details). Is the Doctor nailed down to one task instead of roaming the universe putting his foot in it still “the Doctor”?20 May 2017 at 04:54 #57673CountScarlioni @countscarlioni
@ichabod Agh. My heart sinks . . .
Yes, indeed! Talent over chums anyday.20 May 2017 at 05:45 #57674janetteB @janetteb
@icahabod and @countscarlioni My heart sank too when I read that.
@missrori and @winston Yes I think there is far more to Bill’s Mum than meets the eye. When I first saw the photo I thought Susan but then that might just reflect my own wishes to find out what became of her after the Doctor left her. I have always felt that there is an as yet to be developed story there. I agree there is more of a likeness to Clara. Like Winston I thought her calling out to her mother was surprising and certainly hinted to something more going on that is yet known.
I am thinking that the Doctor’s promise may be about more than just watching the vault. If his promise was to watch over Bill (as I speculated somewhere probably on another thread), then he is free to travel provided she is with him.
Janette20 May 2017 at 06:14 #57677Anonymous @
in my earlier posts of 57435 and 57501 I alluded to some weird muggle thing 🙂 of Bill talking to her mother in both Knock Knock and possibly also in The Pilot -I can’t imagine that would be a continuity thing for people to say “ooh look” – or would it?
Who knows? But I like it. Also like what you said, Janette, regarding travelling -but with Bill – is the promise then kept?
One more day!
Thane and Puro20 May 2017 at 06:26 #57678
Thane and Puro Of course there is. Secret Services are exactly that – secret.
@thane15: Don’t be concerned, it’s all been said before since my meeting ages ago. She wasn’t a ‘mate’ by the way, just someone I was introduced to at a friends house over 10 years ago. She’d retired from the job ( not an agent btw) about the same amount of years. I did ask if I could tell friends about our conversation, and she said yes, none of it was classified. Funnily enough we watched a film/series a few years ago (can’t remember what) where a women barged into a house accompanied by several uniformed men. She told the occupants not to worry ‘the dogs’ would clear things up, it was time they got an outing- or words to that affect. They were Intelligence officers.
I appreciate your warning just the same.
Missy20 May 2017 at 06:35 #57679
@janetteb I am thinking that the Doctor’s promise may be about more than just watching the vault. If his promise was to watch over Bill (as I speculated somewhere probably on another thread), then he is free to travel provided she is with him.
You could be right on the money there. Exciting isn’t it, all this speculation.
As for : Chris is sticking with a team he’s got used to working with on Broadchurch.”
Agh. My heart sinks . . quoth @ichabod.
Being the coward I, when it comes to Peter Capaldi leaving, I prefer not to think about it. does anyone else dread the final episode, be it 13 or Christmas special?
Missy20 May 2017 at 06:41 #57680
@mirime: Heh, heh, so did I once, but then I discovered actors whom I preferred, Peter Capaldi amongst them.
Missy20 May 2017 at 06:54 #57681
Sorry just thought of something. He’s he’s got River’s diary! Now how about that for intriguing?
Thought I’d mention it.
Missy20 May 2017 at 07:26 #57682
@missy I quoth it, all right; and I too dread ye xmas special (although I think “The Doctor Falls” will be the toughest go for me, Xmas being a calmer, more gentle denouement, perhaps).
After that, all bets are off. I suspect that the Broadchurch “chums” (wasn’t it only him and one other writer?) were simply too much of a dicey proposition after Moffat — and that may well have played into Capaldi’s decision to go. I’d sure be concerned if I were in his place. The show is, as Capaldi and Moffat have both said recently, a juggernaut — huge, important, and involving many people at many levels of decision making. That can be exciting (as well as exhausting) and fun, if you’re working with your mates, with plenty of jokes and respect and creative spark in the air.
But if important people you like and trust and know you can work with are gone, then it’s you and the juggernaut — and maybe you feel that you’ll be reduced to a cog in a gigantic machine rather than a creative whipping up great fun and games with your best mates. Then it can become a mere job, a gig, a chore you get paid to do.
But damn it, man!
Let’s talk about River’s diary.20 May 2017 at 08:56 #57683Anonymous @20 May 2017 at 09:04 #57684Mudlark @mudlark
we watched a film/series a few years ago (can’t remember what) where a women barged into a house accompanied by several uniformed men. She told the occupants not to worry ‘the dogs’ would clear things up, it was time they got an outing- or words to that affect.
Was it by any chance this you were thinking of?
KATE: All these muscles, and they still don’t know how to knock. Sorry about the raucous entrance. Spike in Artron energy reading at this address. In the light of the last twenty four hours, we had to check it out, and the dogs do love a run out. Hello. Kate Stewart, head of scientific research at UNIT.
From The Power of Three, in Amy’s and Rory’s house, where the Doctor has constructed a gizmo to try and analyse the mysterious black cubes and a squad from Unit burst in.20 May 2017 at 09:08 #57685Anonymous @
Of course there is. Secret Services are exactly that – secret. A
Don’t be concerned, it’s all been said before since my meeting ages ago. She wasn’t a ‘mate’ by the way, just someone I was introduced to at a friends house over 10 years ago. She’d retired from the job ( not an agent btw) B about the same amount of years. I did ask if I could tell friends about our conversation, C and she said yes, none of it was classified D
OK, I’m just playing sillies with you (possibly both the gin and tonic and the exciting trip to the shop in order to purchase a modem: Hallelujah!!).
But note the letters: A contradicts D; C contradicts A; B contradicts A and D and to ‘B’ I’d add “but how do you know?” 😀
I realise I should be in the Pub and will probably be letter bombed!
<scurries behind sofa>
(Puro)20 May 2017 at 10:24 #57686IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant20 May 2017 at 11:02 #57687wolfweed @wolfweed
Dr Who has a lot of orphans. I wonder which has more; Dickens or Who?
Danny Pink was an orphan. Bill is an orphan. It’s certainly implied that the Doctor is an orphan (also from a ‘young age’).
Tonnes of orphans in Thin Ice.
I don’t think anybody’s been suspicious about Bill’s foster mum, Moira, yet…
Moira means destiny/fate, btw…..20 May 2017 at 13:10 #57696Anonymous @
Interesting! In Oxygen, as Bill appears, Nardole says, “it’s Bill!” The Doctor says, “Of course it’s Bill. Fate and me we have a thing.”
Ooh, like that!
Thane20 May 2017 at 15:57 #57699PhaseShift @phaseshiftTime Lord
I’ve only just watched Oxygen, and pretty much loved it. It’s strange to say, perhaps, but can anyone think of an episode of Doctor Who in recent times being this ‘hard sci-fi’ in approach?
I think there are an astonishing number of references to other works (including Who history) in this but, unlike Smile a few weeks ago, I thought it produced something coherent and very direct from them.
Pearl Mackie continues to be a compelling foil for Capaldi. I actually thought Nardole was a useful addition here as well. I think the revelation that his past is quite shady, coupled with his nervous tendencies but pragmatic ‘let’s get this over with’ style puts me in mind of Vila from Blake’s 7. I’m guaranteed to be drawn to him in other words and would guess at this point his own Arc will not end happily but with a certain nobility.
A lot of people have mentioned Ark in Space, mainly I think for the Space Station design. I came away thinking of the follow up to that story set on station Nerva Beacon – Revenge of the Cybermen, because the basic nature of the body in a robot suit eerily echoes them.
I’ll also say that the effect of the ‘suit virus’ that passes between suits and disables the wearers nervous system, that network of blackening lines on the face, is very similar to the Cybermen neurotrophic virus used in Moonbase and Revenge. I’m left with a haunting impression that this could actually have been the greatest Cyberman story that we’ve never seen in the modern era.
Something else from the past that I’m surprised our Frobisher appreciation society pals @wolfweed @jimthefish and @frobisher didn’t mention – the run of Doctor Who comics for Six with the Penguin introduced the ‘Skeletoids’ basically a design for a space combat suit with AI. The AIs decided that the weak link in the ongoing strategy were the humans inside, so they kept them docile while they went about their business and until they went nice and gooey.
Ultimately though, I think it’s a delight to have that message that capitalism taken to its logical extreme sees its workers as easily disposable assets broadcast on a Saturday night. I wonder if Theresa May still claims to be a fan?
Like @miapatrick , while I’m looking favourably at the initial batch of Episodes for message and essentially ‘doubling down’ on certain issues, I’m hoping that tonight’s episode by Moffat ups the bonkers level significantly. A conceptual trio of linked stories by Moffat, the writer of Kill the Moon and writer of God Complex may be just the ticket.20 May 2017 at 17:04 #57703Mirime @mirime
@missy there are a few actors I like and I am gutted that Capaldi is leaving. I don’t think I’ve been this upset about a regeneration since Tom Baker left and my parents had to reassure me that it was OK this new guy was still the Doctor!
And yes, I’m dreading the final episode.20 May 2017 at 17:45 #57704wolfweed @wolfweed
Good call on the Skeletoids. I imagine Alan McKenzie is already preparing his lawsuit…
I wonder if Theresa May still claims to be a fan?20 May 2017 at 19:21 #57708PhaseShift @phaseshiftTime Lord
Hilarious isn’t it? I wonder if she knows that the comparison with Supreme Commander Servalan that a lot of people are riffing on now originates with Doctor Who performers and writers like Nicholas Pegg? (Click on the pic as it probably won’t show it all)
It’s uncanny. pic.twitter.com/Y4xBaYEkOl
— Nicholas Pegg (@NicholasPegg) March 15, 2017
I’m not on twitter, but I occasionally check out feeds for writers and directors on there. I thought @janetteb may enjoy this. Writer Jamie doing some bonkers theorising on his own episode!
Next week's Who: 'Mining Station Chasm Forge'
Same rhythm in my head as Khazad Doom
And 'If you go to Z'ha'dum, you will die…'
— Jamie Mathieson (@Jamti) May 9, 201720 May 2017 at 19:58 #57709
@wolfweed Moira means destiny/fate, btw…..
@thane15 Of course it’s Bill. Fate and me we have a thing.”
I wondered. Now I have the jitters. Love it. “Oxygen” was a breath of fresh air (?); we are *not* doomed, after all, to a season or mere fun and games (and, well, people being eaten by wood lice or nano-thingies or monster fish). That was just a feint, a set-up for dark days ahead, I think*. There’s nothing to restrain Moffat now, is there? Nothing to lose.
Go, man, GO!
*Of course, if you don’t go to Khaza’dum, you will also die — just maybe not so soon. But I think Mathieson knows that.21 May 2017 at 03:23 #57745gameravatar @gamergirlavatar
@ichabod It’s nice to know I’m not the only one with the jitters. It was wonderful to watch Oxygen and get to the darker side of this season. While the other episodes this season were fine, there was just a feeling that they were going to be left behind very quickly and the season wouldn’t pick up until we saw something that will carry on throughout other episodes. Oxygen was that start and there was no wait till the last two episodes for it. Oxygen felt more surreal and, I feel awful saying (typing) this, but I love that The Doctor is blind because this can be developed over the course of the season and won’t be played like a fun adventure we’ll never return to. I can’t wait to see how The Doctor and the other characters adapted to this. My only fear is that this is proof that the 12th Doctor will be leaving soon. Peter and all the writers have made this doctor my favorite and I don’t want to see him go. Unfortunately, the more we see the development of this season and The Doctor, the closer we are losing him. I hope he stays around for season 11.21 May 2017 at 05:10 #57754
(Puro). Stop trying to blind me with science! *huge grin*
Gin and tonic, my favourite tipple, well, that and Champagne – or what passes as same. You? Hide behind the sofa? Never!
@pedant: The ‘blue object’ mentioned by me, is in the flippin’ trailer. How can it be a spoiler? Or do you mean that I shouldn’t mention it anyway? Sounds a bit bonkers to me. Still, if them’s the rules.
@wolfweed: Moira means destiny/fate, btw…..
As @thane15 put it – Ooh, I like that!
@mudlark: By George, you’ve got it! Quite right.
@mirime; And yes, I’m dreading the final episode.
It’s daft really, you’d think the man was going to die – he is in a way – and I’m not a happy bunny.
@ichabod: Go, man, GO!
I’ll drink to that – gin and tonic anyone? Where or what is Khaza’dum,?
@gamergirlavatar: You most definitely are NOT the only one with the jitters. It isn’t fair of us really, Chris Chibnall might do an excellent job, along with any other writers who want to have a go. SM might also write the odd episode, you can’t keep a good man down- can you? Of course, my major worry is who is the next doctor.
Missy21 May 2017 at 06:55 #57758
@gamergirlavatar (Good that) the Doctor is blind because this can be developed over the course of the season and won’t be played like a fun adventure we’ll never return to. I can’t wait to see how The Doctor and the other characters adapted to this.
Interesting to see what he does with a condition that he can not talk his way out of. It’s a bit like Samson with his hair cut: then what? Sulk? Rage? Conceal and pretend, using secret work-arounds? Retreat, keep everyone at arms’ length, refuse to ask for or accept help? Brush it off with a quip and a laugh? Go to ground, sleep all day? Go to Ohila, or even Gallifrey, for a cure? Give everybody orders to get him what he needs? Have the Tardis build him a K-9 seeing eye dog? Or a small seeing eye gadget that he wears on his shoulder that whispers in his ear? Run away — because Bill is too upset (and guilty?) and he can’t stand it? Make a Geordie-visor to semi-see with?
All of the above? Something completely different? I want to see what Moffat and Capaldi will invent around this. Moffat was so right to say, no quick cure — play it out.
My man — YES! Some fans complain that we never see a handicapped companion, so — here you are, then: a handicapped Doctor, and it’s not hangnails or a headache. I love the choices that Moffat makes. This one is classic: raise the stakes. Doing so is rarely a mistake in fiction, but tone and timing are crucial to make it just enough but not too much — or not too too much. Fascinating. (And, weirdly enough, I don’t give a damn who the next Doctor will be — too caught up now in this 13’s fate and Bill’s, but that’s because PC is “my Doctor”).21 May 2017 at 10:41 #57762Anonymous @
erm @missy @pedant is simply mentioning what our esteemed emperor Craig said in another thread -anything in the ‘next time’ trailer is for the Spoilers only? Since I’ve been in this Forum that’s been the ‘rule’ 🙂
Craig, though, isn’t the sort of person who has tonnes of rules! Still, as many members don’t watch the next time trailers -and they leave a big gap before it’s shown -that’s one good rule, in Craig’s opinion and in my own.
Have a champagne on me in the Pub! I can’t drink that anymore -I fall to the floor!
Puro21 May 2017 at 11:04 #57763janetteB @janetteb
@missy Khaza’dum is a location in Babylon Five, the home of the Shadows who are the big bad in that series. The captain is warned that if he goes there he will die. Of course he goes. The warning wasn’t frivilous, maybe a bit of a clue there from Matheison.
@phaseshift love the photo merge too though I think Servalon had a lot more style. We were just watching a Doco about Blake’s 7 a couple of night ago and started a re watch but now I need to re watch Matheison’s stories and look for B.5 references. I have something noted some similiar themes in recent years but don’t recall just what and when at the moment.
Janette23 May 2017 at 04:47 #57899
@janetteb; Thank you for that. I should have remembered, loved that show. also Blake’s Seven. Orac was great.
Puro> Now I get it! Thing is, I naturally thought that everyone watched the trailers, but obviously not.
Odd though, I could swear that The Pope was mentioned earlier? Thank you for your tactful and funny reply. In future i shall read the rules – all of them
Missy28 May 2017 at 06:04 #58135Momochrys @momochrys
Ok so I don’t know if anyone has actually commented on the dr being blind as an absolute contradiction to the episode hell bent where Capaldi explains how time lords are constantly repairing all they need is some energy in any form I am an avid fan going back to early seventies but im stumped over the blindness that continues into the next two episodes28 May 2017 at 09:19 #58140Anonymous @
Hallooo and welcome! Yes, actually, above we did! I think the theories are that he may have used his regenerative abilities already (off screen) or that a regen ability could trigger ‘what’ or ‘who’ is in the vault and this evidence of the Dr’s weakness could potentially be disastrous.
Thank you, Thane28 May 2017 at 22:12 #58179Momochrys @momochrys
Hi thank you for the information. I’d like to again say Steven Moffat has definitely been contradicted , please refer to Heaven Sent S 9:E 11 And I quote ” People always get it wrong with Time Lords. We take forever to die. Even if we are to injured to regenerate. Every cell in our body keeps trying. Dying properly can take days. It’s why we like dying among our own kind they know not to bury us early.” Please watch this episode first off its amazing acting and story line, second it shows a lot off the doctors spirit.
He can’t choose what cells respond when every cell in their bodies keeps trying ty.
29 May 2017 at 03:02 #58196Anonymous @
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Momochrys. Reason: Mis info
I disagree with “moffat has been definitely contradicted” . I know the quote of which you speak. I believe this blindness is not a regeneration issue -something else -a brain stem problem etc and the fact that if one lets TL know regeneration is happening “one has to borrow something from the future and pay it back” which in the previous episode was made quite clear. Either he doesn’t want to appear weak (obviously true) he doesn’t want to let another TL in the vault know and also as has been said: “I could lose an arm, a leg” and “regeneration is a tricky business”.
Also, he may have simply “switched” if off -for a reason. Precedent setting, as it were.
He may also think blindness is cool…….>
Hope that helps,
Puro29 May 2017 at 03:36 #58197winston @winston
@thane15 and @momochrys The blindness thing is a tricky one to figure out,and the regeneration and healing rules are “fluid” In The Christmas Invasion the 10th Doctor explains that he was lucky that his hand was cut off while he was still regenerating so it grew back ,which sounded like it wouldn’t have if he was not regenning. So maybe some really bad injuries will only heal upon regenerating? Sorry, I am sure this only muddies the already murky waters.30 May 2017 at 05:59 #58247
Perhaps as the only way he could regain his sight, would be to regenerate – and perhaps he didn’t want to yet?
Just a thought.
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