Oxygen
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Dentarthurdent 1 year ago.
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15 May 2017 at 20:54 #57529
@missrori (and others)
The Doctor is blind, but I have wondered whether he was telling Nardole the whole truth, given the signs of their somewhat edgy relationship. Although I didn’t spell it out in my post on Saturday evening, my assumption has been that he had reverted to wearing the sonic glasses because he could use them to help overcome his blindness, either because the glasses could process and transmit images directly to the visual centres of his brain, or because, given that they were *sonic* glasses, he could use them for echo location – like a bats or a dolphin. But maybe (probably) I’m wrong about that. It certainly looks as if the intention is to present us with a Doctor who is being progressively disarmed and handicapped, and it will be interesting to see where this theme, if it is a theme, is leading.
Significantly, though, even when deprived of the use of the sonic screwdriver, without access to the Tardis, and blinded to boot, he managed to make a joke of his predicament. As Nardole said and we were shown, he doesn’t like people to feel sorry for him or to think of him as needing help – a lingering flicker of Time Lord pride surfacing, perhaps.
15 May 2017 at 21:40 #5753515 May 2017 at 22:00 #57536@jimthefish – Coming Soon?
‘The Ambassador will be the next person to discover that I’m a bloody difficult Hermaphrodite Hexapod…’
15 May 2017 at 22:00 #57537We also saw him lose his screwdriver. Now I know continuity says he can make a new one, but Moff has never been one to let continuity get in the way of a damned cool idea.
Lose primary tool.
Lose eyesight.
What next?
15 May 2017 at 22:09 #5753815 May 2017 at 22:19 #57539@wolfweed– and the scary thing is that Alpha Centauri is still a gazillion times more appealing and, well, more human, than May could ever manage to be…
15 May 2017 at 22:19 #5754015 May 2017 at 22:57 #57542I’ll admit that I really liked Jamie Mathieson on the Fan Show talk about throwing in tidbits of info about a character (ie Nardole) and seeing how other writers handled it.
And that Oxygen was written before the other episodes and they took some of these aspects on.That Nardole is ‘dodgy’ is lovely – if he’s Frobisher I’d squee with the best of them (even though I hadn’t come across that character until this forum’s various prodding!).
And now I learn that Frobisher is a shape-shifter…. and I was thinking Sabr….
Aww its too tempting for there not to be some shape-shifting ‘spoilers’ …
(but sadly I’m giving up and it’ll be The Misster in the vault…)
16 May 2017 at 01:50 #57544Obvious to me why the sonic eyeglasses were introduced last season now – thinking ahead in this
story arc?
Saw this a while back so thought Id share it forward
16 May 2017 at 01:50 #57545Obvious to me why the sonic eyeglasses were introduced last season now – thinking ahead in this
story arc?
Saw this a while back so thought Id share it forward
16 May 2017 at 01:52 #57546OK – no idea why that posted twice???? and no idea ho to delete 🙁
Sorry Mods
16 May 2017 at 03:40 #57548@jimthefish Watched the first Peladon story recently, produced when Britain was entering the EU and it felt very pertinent to the moment. Definitely time to revisit. To the BTL moaners “political” translates as anything they don’t agree with, ie left leaning. They would not consider Downtown Abbey with the benevolent nobs taking such care of their obsequious servants at all political. I seriously wonder just how much Doctor Who the ARSE fans have watched. (actually I often wonder reading through comments how many of them are fans at all.)
Agree with @mudlark that the Doctor does not appear to be telling Nardole the truth about anything and may well be exaggerating his blindness. I wonder how much Nardole really knows about the Doctor.
Cheers
Janette
16 May 2017 at 05:58 #57551@ MissRori Mathieson has already gone on record as saying he hasn’t been asked to come back for Series 11, as yet, and doubts he will be. According to him “My understanding is that Chris is sticking with a team he’s got used to working with on Broadchurch.”
What a pity! Thanks very much for passing this on.
16 May 2017 at 06:57 #57552Oops, bungled `Edit’ and have two posts…
Like @whisht, I’ve pretty much thrown in the towel and I’m now inclining to Missy or the Master in the Vault. Perhaps this was pointed out earlier and I missed it, but a late thought from
Knock, Knock,' was it an accident that the being/thing in the Vault was playingFur Elise’ when the Doctor was outside with the Mexican takeaway eager to discuss the case of Eliza? Had he passed on juicy tidbits earlier? Interesting too how the takeaway has often been regarded, including initially by me, as Chinese or Indian! As I think was pointed out in the Knock, Knock thread (by @whisht?), the Mexican takeaway was perhaps a little joke for Michelle Gomez.We have a big thing (Missy?) in the Vault, a thing at least somewhat chummy with the Doctor but who alarms Nardole. Perhaps the Doctor has kept a close eye on the Vault and been in hiding for 50 years because he knows there will come a time when he needs the big thing in the Vault to help deal with the Really Big Thing outside the Vault, whatever that Really Big Thing might be.
I agree with @janetteb & @mudlark that in his dealings with Nardole it seems the Doctor might well be economical with the actualité. When Nardole is working in the Doctor’s eyes at the end of the episode, he tells Nardole “I try never to tell the enemy my secret plan.” Is that telling us the Doctor suspects Nardole might be colluding with the enemy (perhaps with the best of intentions?).
16 May 2017 at 07:39 #57553Love it. What a terrific season, stellar acting all round and good to see more of Matt Lucas.
Im willing to concede my many crazy theories on the content of the vault, it does indeed look like its Missy , as a bonus now that he has last his sight he will be forced to team up with her and rely on her for sight which could lead to some great stuff tag teaming fun.verbal
16 May 2017 at 07:41 #57554Love it. What a terrific season, stellar acting all round and good to see more of Matt Lucas.
Im willing to concede my many crazy theories on the content of the vault, it does indeed look like its Missy , as a bonus now that he has last his sight he will be forced to team up with her and rely on her for sight which could lead to some great stuff tag teaming fun.
16 May 2017 at 10:52 #57558@countscarlioni You’re welcome. Found it out on Tumblr oddly enough. Also, I’m inclined to think we’ll see something like you’re predicting in the coming weeks.
16 May 2017 at 12:31 #57559@pedant He may have lost his eyesight and sonic but hello Sonic White Cane! 😀
As for loss issues though, perhaps it’s an issue less of what he loses but what he gains for his troubles?
Twelve’s lost a lot so far: he lost Clara, his memories of her (and right to grieve), his people and home world assuming they haven’t extended forgiveness to him, River, and now to an extent his freedom to travel when and where he pleases. Who made him the other prisoner of the Vault? And now he can’t see.
At this point what does he have left to lose in this incarnation? And what has he to gain?
16 May 2017 at 13:40 #57561I was thinking more of loss of advantages and tools. If the psychic paper goes next, we’ll know I onto something.
16 May 2017 at 14:04 #57562@pedant I think the sonic paper exists more for the benefit of the script writer than the Doctor so that might be last to go, when it is no longer useful.
@missrory I guess there is always the Tardis though he ended up Tardis less last series so that might be a bit repetitive.
Cheers
Janette
16 May 2017 at 14:19 #57563@pedant, Ah, I see. And yes, it would make sense for the psychic paper to go next (especially since it can alert him to trouble with the Vault).
@janetteb Yeah, it would be repetitive for him to be cut off from the TARDIS again. (I still don’t get why he didn’t “call” it to Gallifrey once he got out of the dial, it would have made his escape plan with Clara much easier!) He’s so often cut off from it short-term anyway. 🙂
16 May 2017 at 14:48 #57564I’ve read in several places thoughtful analyses of this episode, pointing out the Doctor’s true heroism here: He not only showed his true face to the universe by saving who he could on the station, but by making sure Nardole and Bill came out of it more-or-less-okay given that it was his idea to travel to the station and investigate and they would have rather turned back. Shouldering the consequences that come with being a hero…
But for me, that just makes the ending sadder. And with the next few episodes looking to be more downer stuff, it’s hard to see his story as inspiring us to be heroes…which we need more of in this world! Well, let’s hope for the best.
16 May 2017 at 16:23 #57565I just watched the episode and all I can think of is…. How will Bill react ? How will the Doctor manage to keep saving worlds and what is that box ?! (not the Tardis… You know the box he has to … what’s the english word ? look after ? Anyway you know what I mean. In french i wanna say ‘la boîte qu’il surveille’)
16 May 2017 at 16:44 #5756616 May 2017 at 17:54 #57567@zeyra I think we’ll be getting answers to a few of your questions shortly. The Doctor will find a way to work around, or even with, his disability — and he will have help! He has taught Bill so well so far…
16 May 2017 at 21:31 #57570Hey Guys and Girls, sorry if you have heard this Vault theory before. It was on another site and I love it.
Imprisoned in the Vault is the Valeyard. And the Valeyard will be played by Peter Capaldi in a duel role. The regeneration we see in the trailer is not the 12th Doctor but the Valeyard’s.
What do you think?
17 May 2017 at 02:01 #57573@alexwho This would be a good explanation of the Vault situation — especially as no actor was ever announced as playing the Valeyard; in this case they wouldn’t have to! The main drawback is that the relevant trailer scene apparently comes from the three-parter that starts shortly, and its storyline (from the synopses at the Radio Times) seems packed enough without bringing the Valeyard into the mix. Also — why would the Valeyard have the same face as Twelve?
17 May 2017 at 03:35 #57574Finally I can have some time on this forum! Real life gives me the pip sometimes.
What a change this episode was, as well as a shock. I haven’t read all your posts, so many, but I shall attempt the task as soon as I can.
My OH didn’t care for Oxygen, in particular the ‘corpse suits.’ To his mind they were too amateurish. Nevertheless, although I see what he means, I was carried away by the plot, as I was by Jamie Mathieson’s, Flat Line and Mummy on the Orient Express, although I didn’t enjoy The girl who Died. The Doctor’s blindness is intriguing, and I wonder if it means a partial regeneration to restore his sight?
All in all, I enjoyed this episode and look forward to reading all your comments.
Missy
17 May 2017 at 03:53 #57575The Vault.
All the theories expressed so far are really good (except, perhaps, for my early theory that it was Chris Chibnall in the vault).
But, let’s work on the premise that Moffat will pull off something quite extraordinary. Now, he will do it in a way that is instantly relatable to recent viewers but will also involve call-backs for older fans who remember BG Who. But he will do it in that order.
For this reason, and although it is a great theory, I don’t think it will be the Valeyard. The dedicated (and ageing) fans know who that is, but for the (sizeable) audience who has only tuned in recently, they will be scratching their heads.
It could (and might) be Missy, but that seems (for me, anyway) a bit too underwhelming.
Now, we have been told by the powers that be (Moffat) that we will see inside the vault next week. But does that mean we will see the occupant of the vault?
Personally, I hope not. I want a really big reveal later on. And I mean a really big reveal, like the Hartnell Doctor, or Susan. Or both.
But somehow, Moffat always manages to confound us all.
And that is why I will miss him.
17 May 2017 at 05:16 #57581Anonymous @
@blenkinsopthebrave. I was wondering about that too? Thane doesn’t know about the Valeyard yet-so I’ll need to tutor him. 🙂 I believe it could be the Valeyard -but that it might be Dr Hartnell would heartily (ahem) thrill us both. Or Susan…. In fact, pretty much anyone at all should knock me sideways and will be appreciated because:
..somehow, Moffat always manages to confound us all. And that is why I will miss him.
I second that. Thane thirds it.
Don’t know if Moffat is writing any of the remaining episodes? And that would be a spoiler if it was revealed here but if so it does incline me to a prediction there’ll be something “truly awesome” as young Thane would add (informally, of course!).
..I was thinking more of loss of advantages and tools…
Yes indeed.
Kindest, Puro.
17 May 2017 at 05:42 #57585@wolfweed: How does Dr Who manage to be so topical? Does it have crystal balls?
Did you ever watch Spooks? They managed to do the same thing. it was quite frightening at times, just how c lose they got to real events – before they happened.
@mudlark: I only noticed the skull when I watched the episode again.
@pedant: I wonder if the Doc is fully aware of something unavoidable steaming down the road towards him…The look on his face – just for an instant – when he mentions regeneration to Bill. Seems likely to me. The end is nigh, his end at any rate.
Missy
17 May 2017 at 11:34 #57586Spooks? LOL! Did you like that show? It got to the point Mum and I thought it was a bad comedy! Everyone was either a traitor, a chronic over-spender, unable to keep their hands off each other or committed to identity theft (the last being Lucas who stole his identity from another guy who looked similar). 🙂
Still, it had the great Nicola Walker in it who was fantastic. I always liked the original Bill police show which Mum was watching when it was on again last year. They didn’t buy all the seasons just the first seven but I thought it was definitely like real life! My Dad used to be a copper with the Met and said it was pretty ‘spot on’. Oops, wrong thread 🙁
@alexwho I think that’s a great theory on a dual (or duel!) 12th Doctor. “Proper bonkers” as Puro would say!!
Soon all will be revealed.
Thank you,
Thane.
17 May 2017 at 16:02 #57595@thane15
Soon all will be revealed.
To quote Futurama, “That’s not soon enough!” 😉 And somehow I don’t think all will be revealed right away.
@blenkinsopthebrave I agree that the Valeyard is a rather obscure villain to be referenced in the new series. Kind of like how there were people theorizing/hoping that Missy was the Rani back in Series 8. And as I’ve noted elsewhere, the changes the revival’s made to the nature and number of the Doctor’s regenerations means that penny already should have been spent.
Also, the Valeyard wouldn’t be much of a foil to the Twelfth Doctor because Twelve is a melancholy, broody, fearsome figure, and his darker side has been well-explored by now. Part of why Missy is the way she is is that her false jolliness and charm contrasts so strongly to his broody grumpiness and lack of social finesse, especially in Series 8. If the revival is ever to use the Valeyard, he should be pit against a lighter-toned Doctor.
I agree that there should be a really big surprise in store for us, along the lines of what you’re suggesting. I think Moffat tried for that last year with the Hybrid mystery, but the reveal there (it’s two people…who were doing just fine and only doing good until everybody else ruined it…also, that’s not a hybrid) was a damp squib. I would have preferred it to be just the Doctor, if only because it would have revived the mystery of his true nature.
But back to this episode, I wonder how much time passes between this one and the next in-universe, and whether the Doctor tries to get some medical help. Can’t imagine the TARDIS wouldn’t be willing to get him to a good sawbones and back before the kettle boils!
17 May 2017 at 18:10 #57596So sad the doctor is now blind
but such a awesome episode
17 May 2017 at 19:38 #5760017 May 2017 at 23:11 #57604@hillforest I like it. I keep thinking that the very careful explanation and example of a bootstrap paradox in Under the Lake/Before the Flood is of wider significance.
Oh, and I rather enjoyed Oxygen. It was rather more tense than usual as I had a feeling the blindness might not be magically fixed at the end. There are consequences, he was reckless and while he is less breakable than us he’s not unbreakable.
18 May 2017 at 03:31 #57609>@blenkinsopthebrave: Love the video – thank you!
@lisa: Interesting and could explain why he wears his glasses a lot.
>@janetteb: Agree with @mudlark that the Doctor does not appear to be telling Nardole the truth about anything and may well be exaggerating his blindness. I wonder how much Nardole really knows about the Doctor.
>Good point. As the Doc said when he asks Nardole “What do you want from me?”
<Nardole: “The truth!”
“>Doc: ” Don’t be unreasonable.”
@alexwho: Anything is possible, but I keep remembering the prisoner’s reaction to children being eaten? probably means nothing at all.@missrori; Also — why would the Valeyard have the same face as Twelve?
Perhaps for the same reason as given in Fires of Pompeii?
Puro. ..somehow, Moffat always manages to confound us all. And that is why I will miss him.I second that. Thane thirds it.And I fourth it! Everyone have faith in the Master, aka Steven Moffat!
@thane15: Loved spooks – most of it at any rate. Harry was my favourite, closely followed by Tom Quin. Lucas was the character I liked the least. Hermione Norris was brilliant. I’ve all 10 series.
@the12thdoctor: So sad the doctor is now blind.
Ah! But is he?
Missy
18 May 2017 at 04:05 #57613@mirime I agree that simply fixing the Doctor’s sight at the end of the episode would have been too easy and reduced the impact of what happens so sad though it is I was glad that the writers didn’t take that option. Sometimes there have to be serious consequences. The Doctor can’t be killed, we all know that or the series would not continue but he can be hurt, not enough to force a regeneration but enough to matter. That gives the stories a more serious edge, a tension that the magical “fix it all at the end” lacks.
Cheers
Janette
18 May 2017 at 10:37 #57615@janetteb Yes, it does make sense for there to be lasting consequences sometimes.
I was thinking about this, and realized something important: one could argue that the Doctor was reckless when he didn’t hold himself to his promise, do the right thing, and mind wipe Bill. That gave him the chance to rethink his relationship with her, and he decided what the hey, make her a companion, show her the universe. And look at all the trouble that’s led to for him.
If the Vault, his mission, and his promise are that important to keep secret, if the whole Earth will be in danger if the prisoner is freed…well, isn’t holding himself to his vow far more important than whether a young woman with few prospects in life has some nice dreams for a change? True, a mind wipe is not the nice choice to make, but in this context it’s the right one. He took one when the time came, she could too. And if the Vault, his mission, and his promise are all so important, then why didn’t he make sure he’d come out of “Oxygen” okay? Why make sure she survived at the cost of his sight? Wouldn’t a single death be an acceptable loss if the fate of the Earth is at stake due to that prisoner?
He must learn to see the forest not the trees. Or does he?
The Doctor sees himself as a prisoner. Working from this season’s theme, then he must be in the thrall of possibly evil forces who have forced him to guard the Vault. Perhaps it’s better for him to take the risks — and, yes, consequences — that come with traveling again, reaching out to others, holding himself to his duty of care to his companions, than to be a slave who meekly obeys orders and puts some vague “duty” to “the many” above the needs of “the ones”. He will be a better man, a free man…if a blind man…we’ll see where this goes. 😉
EDIT: Also, if the TARDIS wanted him to be held to the promise more than freedom, she wouldn’t have let him know there was a distressed space station in the first place, or at least refused to take him there for now. It takes him where he needs to go… 😉
18 May 2017 at 11:27 #57616@missy I liked Lucas in Spooks, didn’t like how they chose to kill him off, that whole storyline was ridiculous.
OK, more ridiculous than normal.
18 May 2017 at 11:57 #5761818 May 2017 at 14:17 #57622True, a mind wipe is not the nice choice to make, but in this context it’s the right one. He took one when the time came, she could too. And if the Vault, his mission, and his promise are all so important, then why didn’t he make sure he’d come out of “Oxygen” okay? Why make sure she survived at the cost of his sight? Wouldn’t a single death be an acceptable loss if the fate of the Earth is at stake due to that prisoner?
I think @bluesqueakpip wrote a post or blog last year about the nature of choices -just as @jimthefish and others used examples from Buffy to explain that there are choices, many are difficult and no choice which ends up with an innocent like Bill killed is a good choice. It’s certainly never an OK choice.
And we’re not sure it is a prisoner in the vault – quite yet.
With this:
And look at all the trouble that’s led to for him.
I fear, Miss Rori, that we’re back to your choon: that he’s done incredible things, never been appreciated, the universe just turns without him whilst his ‘job’ is a thankless, lonely one….Am I right?
Close on the money? 🙂
No, but seriously, the Doctor has had -and probably will continue to have -an unbelievable existence. The friends he’s made, the women he’s loved (and the men), the universe he’s explored, the wars evaded, and: Gallifrey falling no more.
I don’t think he needs or seeks appreciation nor do I personally believe that “trouble” is something he wants to avoid; we may want to avoid it for him! But somehow a little trouble finds him (where the Tardis “needs to be”) during which his experiences refine; shape and form him.
Wouldn’t a single death be an acceptable loss…?
No, I think not.
“a young woman with few prospects…”
I think her Firsts in Physics, her attendance, her quick wit and compassion suggest quite the opposite. As for his “duty” to the many -it worked on Gallifrey, and then many years later he saved the “ones” -both Rigsy and later, Clara.
Perhaps mind-wiping Bill would be considered a ‘good option’ but somehow, after the same experience with Clara and the complete removal of free agency from Donna, I think he’s learned this would definitely be one wrong choice.
G’night!
Puro
18 May 2017 at 15:17 #57624@thane15 It’s not the same old choon Puro, but I understand you seeing it as such. 😉 I was working in hypotheticals in this case, thinking back on his arc so far this season. I debate things in my head all the time, trying to see different points of view, and I was expressing the “devil’s advocate” POV there.
I was trying to say that it would seem on the surface that the Doctor’s been royally screwing up what was apparently a pretty sweet, simple gig for 50+ years by not just keeping on keeping on with it instead of heading out on adventures with Bill, as he’s not only risking their lives but the safety of Earth, given what has been revealed about the Vault thus far. Certainly Nardole seems to think so!
But whatever the Doctor’s promise is, he cannot hold himself to it so much that he would hurt Bill by giving her the mind wipe, or resist the call to other adventures — and helping others — forever, especially now that he has an “audience” for them again in Bill! And I think I know why.
Guarding the Vault is a duty, right? The last time he got wrapped up in a particular duty — his duty of care to Clara — it ultimately kept him from being his best self to everyone else. I think the Doctor’s realized, with a little “urging” from River, Susan, and even the TARDIS, that once again he just can’t be the Doctor, at least not fully, if he holds himself to this One Thing.
The Doctor doesn’t mind wipe (anymore). And that’s who he wants to be, so he doesn’t. And from there he decides to start freeing himself from the obligation to the Vault, and to whomever he made the Promise to. He decides to fully be the Doctor again, not just the careful professor he’s been for so long.
So he has to get out there and make mistakes. He’s the idiot that passes through, helps out, and learns, and on his best days he’s who he wants to be, the Doctor. And now for effectively the first time in this incarnation, he is teaching too, to his eager pupil Bill — someone who to the outside world wouldn’t appear to be much, but whom he sees great things in, those wonderful traits you mentioned. Missy once said the Doctor would go to Hell for Clara if she asked, and that was very true, but it’s clear that he would do the same for Bill. In fact, he’ll go first, and be there on the other side, waiting for her to cross…
Yes, it does mean trouble and consequences, but as I put it at the end, it’s better for him that he (and Bill) experiences these things not only because so many others will benefit, but because he will be stronger for his hardships and secure in the knowledge that he will never be cruel and never be cowardly (and if he ever is he’ll make amends). I think this arc (and the Twelfth Doctor era) is going to come to a very powerful conclusion if he can see this inner strength through.
It’s sad, but beautiful.
And as for recognition/appreciation, I have to admit that if his monologue to the miners in “Oxygen” is any indication, he no longer cares about that. He’ll leave those he helps to wonder why he did so. So you’re right, he’ll be okay in that respect. 😉
Thanks for writing!
19 May 2017 at 01:29 #57643Wouldn’t a single death be an acceptable loss if the fate of the Earth is at stake due to that prisoner?
No. We’ve had this conversation – one does not do the right thing because it is part of a calculation, one does the right thing because it is the right thing.
And you go on adventures with companions/assistants/sidekicks because they are fun. And wherever the Tardis takes you, you do the right thing as best you can.
But, to riff somewhat freely on The Waterboys, we see the crescent, he sees the whole of the moon.
19 May 2017 at 02:28 #57645I watched again last night and what really struck me was Bill not only calling out to her Mom but truly upset that she doesn’t answer her. I know she has talked to her Mom before and acted like she answered but I wonder if she really does or at least that Bill believes she does. I don’t know what it means but I think it means something. It was just strange to shout for her Mom to answer her rather than a cry for help.
19 May 2017 at 06:40 #57648@winston I thought that was odd too. I think there is more to Bill than we have been led to believe.
Cheers
Janette
19 May 2017 at 10:31 #57649@mirime: and @Thane
Not as ridiculous as you think.
In one episode, you may remember a cat escaping from a house in the rain, and the team had to use a hair dryer on it? That really happened. A fair while ago I was talking to a woman who had worked for M15 in the distant past, she told me that story was true. A lot of Spooks was reasonably authentic, except that the Agents didn’t kill people, they sent in what they called the ‘dogs’ to do that – if necessary. The BBC script writers merely gave it a tweak here and there. The series was watched by many members of M15.
I always thought Lucas to be weak – not the actor’s fault, the script.
It is possible that Missy could restore the Doctor’s sight. Remember in the Magicians Apprentice, when he meets Davros? He uses a little of his regeneration to help Davros – saying he’d probably lose an arm or leg sometime in the future. If he can do it, so can Missy.
I still think that John Simm is in the Vault.
Missy
19 May 2017 at 11:20 #5765419 May 2017 at 11:21 #57655@missy if you have mates allegedly working for intelligence, best not to discuss it on the ‘net. It’s not advisable.
19 May 2017 at 13:57 #57659 -
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