Rogue

[Craig @craig Emperor]

The Doctor and Ruby land in 1813, where guests at a duchess’ party are being murdered. A mysterious bounty hunter called Rogue is about to change the Doctor’s life forever.

This is written by the writing team of Kate Herron and Briony Redman.

Herron is a writer/director known for female-led comedies. She wrote and directed several succesful short films, then directed episodes of “Sex Education” and the first season of Marvel’s “Loki”. Her partner Briony Redman is an improv comedian, actor and writer. They are currently working together on a movie based on The Sims game, which Herron will direct.

It is directed by Ben Chessell, who also did episode 2, “The Devil’s Chord”.

And, yes, Susan Twist is in it again. This time as “The Portrait”.

[Craig @craig Emperor]

Well, that’s gonna annoy a large proportion of the interwebs. I can’t wait to see the fallout.

[syzygy @thane16]

@craig —agreed

on a calm note (pun intended). Interesting to hear the Who theme & variations played by the strings in the ballroom as Rogue, Emily Beckett, Doctor & Ruby discuss the cosplay.

Puro and Son.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Like @craig, I can only imagine the craziness of the interwebs. In fact, I am looking forward to to this episode becoming part of the UK election coverage.

As someone who started watching the very first episode as a nipper back in 1964 (there was a bit of a gap before the show started on TV in Australia) it has been blindingly obvious  that the show has always pushed the boundaries of what “responsible adults” assumed was right and proper for anybody to watch. My parents thought the Hartnell shows were too “dark” for my impressionable nipper brain, for example.

Anyway, both Mrs Blenkinsop and I thought this totally gay Who episode was a hoot. The Doctor was the Doctor – always focussed on saving whoever he could save. The intergalactic villains were  probably some of the silliest cos-playing villains I have ever seen, and we enjoyed ourselves immensely.

[Charlie Cook @cookgroom]

Not sure what I thought of this. Fun but silly. Didnt waste much money on CGI – Villains were a return to ‘man/woman in a mask’ .
Interesting that the Doctor again cried – this, like Susan Twist, is becoming a regular event.
Note that Emily appeared to be a heroine and turned into a villain – discussion point, have all the episodes had either a hero turned villain or villain turned hero?

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Quick thoughts – I really enjoyed that – fluffy and silly, but really well done. And lots of fun.

Loved the Doctor and Rogue’s rivalry with gadgets and their spaceships. The Doctor waiting confidently outside as Rogue goes into his “shed”! (I noticed the console on Rogue’s ship also had a hexagonal design – coincidence?).

I like the TARDIS’s new skills – psychic earrings which can transmit instant dancing skills to the wearer (I REALLY need a pair of those) and also, “battle mode”.

As I’ve said before, I really like how the stories this season have mostly avoided “entire universe/time and space in peril” and concentrated on the more localised threat to the Doctor, companion or a small group of people (notwithstanding this week’s “they’ll cosplay the entire planet to death” and Boom‘s reveal of how the Doctor being blown up would threaten the planet). I fully expect that to change next week, but it’s been a refreshing change.

I see Susan Twist makes an appearance as a portrait “with eyes that seem to follow you” and did Rogue say something about the paperwork having increased since he got a new boss?? (Like the Meep). Also dice make an appearance, and a Dungeons & Dragons reference – shades of the Toymaker’s games?

@thane16 – nice catch.

@blenkinsopthebrave

it has been blindingly obvious  that the show has always pushed the boundaries of what “responsible adults” assumed was right and proper for anybody to watch. My parents thought the Hartnell shows were too “dark” for my impressionable nipper brain, for example.

Absolutely agree! (And entertainingly regularly annoyed self appointed public morality protector Mary Whitehouse across Pertwee and Baker’s times, who repeatedly called for its cancellation)

@cookgroom – not sure that’s specific to this season, but yes, regular transformations of seeming goodies into baddies and vice versa.

Interestingly, most of the reviews I’ve seen so far have been extremely positive, particularly for its unequivocal “queering” of the Doctor. (Not delved into the nether regions of Twitter tho, or BTL comments). But this old school DW veteran is very happy.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

I can’t see why anyone should fulminate any more than at the same sex couples on Strictly. So, yes, they will steam and smoke.

Otherwise… The Family of Blood? Captain Jack by any other name? Aristo mayhem ala Fireplace Girl? Nice to see Doctor Ruth in the mug shot sequence… but no Camfield, Holmes, Harper… nor Brendan! Awww!

I think you would call that a romp. Obviously more character based… not every episode can have mind warping meta scifi history. I could have done with more phlegmatic aristos getting withered. ‘Dessicate and be done, sirrah! Damn your eyes!”

Is it me or did something happen with the script editing? Sudden oblique info dumps… you’re going… uh? what, who? I accept this but… I can’t give an example without rewatching, though I haven’t finished with Dot and Bubble yet. It moved quickly. Ruby and the Psychic Earrings were a bit telegraphed. Getting four weird clicky bird aliens to stand within the desired triangle seemed a bit of stretch.

so better than eps 1&2.

But! Only 2 more eps! I feel sold short. Cheers Disney!

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

The addition of another ring on the Doctor’s hand at the end made me think of the discussion here on the forum  about the possible meaning of all his rings back in “The Church on Ruby Road”. Given his addition of the ring from Rogue, perhaps one of the other rings was from Houdini.

[bunface @bunface]

Loved this! Fluffy and romping, my arse! Why does anything that looks like romance gets called silly?!

Outraged anti-gays and traditionalists (whatever that means) aside, I would think there are an awful lot of Whovians who are simultaneously charmed and hurt by the pretty savage satire on cosplay and wannabeism that was finally sent down a triangular garbage shute!

And yet… Beyond the queering of the Doctor, what a funny, playful and heady queering of the audience, suckering us into Bridgerton/Austen land, where Ruby was the natural focus for romance, but of course we knew it would be the Doctor (deliciously done, fantastic performance from both). And as soon as we see Rogue… here we go, loving/hating the Byronic gayness of it, the frisson. Sooo naughty… Let’s all dress up like the Doctor, we can play at being gay this time! Such a thrill! It makes the feathers positively bristle! And we even, apparently, get the guy, and yet know it’s going to go deliciously wrong because this is the Doctor.

The invitation is there to inhabit all the over-familiar stereotypes, from period romances to the Kylie-lovers. (100% brilliant impression by Gatwa in that bit, btw!)

What’s even more complex though is the fact that yes, the Doctor cries. That he’s going to get his hearts broken (again), but that he also adds that ring to the others, to all the other losses/abandonments? With that simple, oh-so-romantic gesture the whole thing plunges into the kind of dark emotional ambivalence we’ve seen before, where the Doctor is never just innocent.

It all suggests a tragic continuity with what we’ve seen, especially from RTD, as the newly heart-on-his-sleeve Doctor, the gay guy just having fun with his BFF, dancing and singing and teasing and ‘doing what he does’ once again appears so much bigger on the inside, his vulnerability about to get twisted again by some dreadful Boss.

I come away anticipating heartbreak and confusion in the finale(s), but so much more excited now about where it can all go. Can’t wait!

Other things:

Yes, games, games, games continue to abound.

Rogue from X-Men drains the life out of folk too.

Indira Varma is always great value.

I did think the kiss was awkwardly placed, but it had to happen plot-wise so…

 

 

 

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@craig And I’d love to wish that portion of the interweb a ‘very happy die mad about it’. 🙂

[dwnerdfrommars @dwnerdfrommars]

Freaking stupid. Doctor Who is officially woke. It ended in 2017. Nothing exists after. Tried Gatwa, nope, liked him at first, and he’s gay. Welp, no “New Doctor Who” Reboot for me.

[dwnerdfrommars @dwnerdfrommars]

And no, I’m not trying to be toxic, it’s just that Doctor Who isn’t the same anymore. It’s just not my Who.

[dwnerdfrommars @dwnerdfrommars]

And also, I wanted a Black doctor, and I got this. Sad.

[Krathoon @krathoon]

The aliens are total bastards in this one. I did not totally get the bit with the trap at the end.

It really does seem like the old lady that keeps popping up is “The One Who Waits”.

[Krathoon @krathoon]

I did bet there would be a gay romance this season. The writers just could not resist doing it.

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

Well what can I add but pleaseeeee please please can we have more Rogue. Though please  don’t make him a new Captain Jack. On a more serious note if the internet in the other places has a meltdown I say so f- what, it already had been established the Doctor could swing both ways for f-sake. When you have a race that it is established can regenerate as either sex and Jodie doc had obvious feelings for Jas (love or hate the Chibnal era) why is it surprising  that  all the so called fans who seem to only be able to constantly criticise the show an opourtunity to go into a meltdown. I for one have never had a problem with this,  though my own being gay probably  has some part in this. However I would have been cheering the Who team on if they had made Rogues character female, it’s not as if the Doctor hasn’t had female romantic encounters before namely River.

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@scaryb

“queering” of the Doctor. (Not delved into the nether regions of Twitter tho, or BTL comments). But this old school DW veteran is very happy.

Me too – I’m delighted. I may have let out an undignified squeal once Gatwa Doc starting getting his flirt on with Rogue.

@miapatrick I feel the need for a rainbow TARDIS mug with Gatwa-Doc leaning cheekily against her and the legend “Die mad about it” stat…

@bunface

Yes, games, games, games continue to abound.

Rogue from X-Men drains the life out of folk too.

The Doctor spots some dice on the console of Rogue’s ship and asks him if he got his name from Dungeons and Dragons…

Seems more and more likely that someone from the Toymaker’s Pantheon is abroad (perhaps the one whom Maestro said was present at Ruby’s birth) and is playing games with the Doctor across time and space. Let’s call him/her The Games Master for now. Are they the Susan Twist character – she is certainly “cosplaying” a different character each time they encounter her – so the cosplaying birdy shape-shifters may be a hint.

Rogue is very Captain Jack Harkness (and a bit River Song) – so much so that perhaps it’s not a coincidence. Did Rogue get space/time-tweaked in the Doctor’s direction by an unseen hand? A rake-ish adventurer with a sad backstory involving loss… Does the Games Master know what the Doctor likes?

And the Doctor’s tears… almost on cue now…

I keep thinking about Hamlet’s staging of “the Mousetrap”, the play within the play, to entrap his uncle. Is the Doctor unaware of the Games Master? Or has he caught on, and he’s already playing (but can’t let on to Ruby, in case she’s been placed with him as part of it)?

 

[bunface @bunface]

@juniperfish

Is the Doctor unaware of the Games Master? Or has he caught on, and he’s already playing (but can’t let on to Ruby, in case she’s been placed with him as part of it)?

Love your ‘knows what the Doctor likes’ line – exactly! The refs and reiterations are coming thick and fast, like AI has watched Doctor Who and is writing a new story, with all the ingredients.

One thing that makes me wonder whether you’re right, despite how genuine the tears seem, is that when he was setting up the trap, the Doctor set it for a max of six, ostensibly because it couldn’t carry more, but with Rogue jumping in, six was the number that ended up there.

Did the Doctor suspect Rogue was one of the party, even if he’s a different species perhaps?

Watching over, Rogue’s expressions and actions are way more obviously devious, so did the Doctor suss him? It doesn’t look that way from the Doctor’s reactions, unless he’s aware of the game and is always playing along, knowing he’s being watched – by the Susan Twist character(s) as you say. (Still think she’s a spy rather than the main villain though).

This episode ramped up the masquerade* theme brilliantly, so I’m persuaded you’re on to something about Ruby being left out of it by the Doctor because he suspects her too.

* Noticed second time that Varma’s bird form entered the room to announce the wedding saying ‘wilkommen, bienvenue’ like the Emcee in Cabaret. A film all about masquerade and queerness in the face of a very dark threat.

 

 

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

The bird-headed shape-shifters kept ringing a bell in my head and I’ve now twigged what they put me in mind of…

Has anyone read John Fowles’ The Magus? I read it when I was far too young, which is of course, exactly the right age (my parents had excellent inappropriate bookshelves in the hallways) and as such it was absolutely mind-blowing.

Anyhoo – it’s about a young naive Brit called Nicholas, who is teaching English on a Greek island one summer, and who gets drawn into the mysterious world of a wealthy old eccentric called Conchis. This dude Conchis stages increasingly elaborate masques (ritualistic drama) involving all sorts of be-costumed people dressed as, amongst others things, the Egyptian God Anubis (jackal-headed), a man with a crocodile head, a vampire, a goat-figure, Herene the Hunter, various grotesques, and pulls the bewildered Nicholas into his world.

It seems the masques are staged psychological dramas designed to mentally test/ torture/ break-down and “evolve” the hapless Nicholas. Conchis refers to the whole shebang as his “God Game”.  He is a sort of Shakespearean Prospero (by Fowles’ design) from The Tempest – a magician and a game-player.

Ding ding ding – so perhaps all the encounters Gatwa Doctor is having at present, on his travels with Ruby, are in some way “staged” by The Games’ Master.

To what end, I’m not sure – is the Games’ Master feeding on the Doctor’s tears?

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@bunface

Noticed second time that Varma’s bird form entered the room to announce the wedding saying ‘wilkommen, bienvenue’ like the Emcee in Cabaret. A film all about masquerade and queerness in the face of a very dark threat.

Ooh – I missed that – more masquerade – love it… I am forever a fan of Alan Cumming’s version of Cabaret.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

I am amazed that a screenplay depicting mutual physical attraction should somehow be more objectionable than say…

A man with blacked out teeth committing weird psychic… if not gaseous (??!) rape (Web of Fear)

voodoo dolls marching spookily to ultrasound (Terror of the Autons) to commit murder

Extreme violence committed by conscienceless criminals at the behest of conscienceless wealth (Seeds of Doom)

a confused if not entirely deranged alien violently assaulting his friend (Twin Dilemma)

A lonely inadequate man finding love in the most extreme of circumstance (Love and Monsters)

The betrayed dilettante forced to recognise the real nature of the peculiar being he more or less brought into being and then coerced into marriage (The Husbands of River Song)

The aged intellectual who makes a clumsy and inappropriate pass at a vulnerable person (The Pilot)

Or anything committed to the screen by Zchib.

Not saying I didn’t enjoy some of those scenarios, though not all and nothing much by Zchib, but since when does violence, ridicule and manipulation become preferable to…

… ah! This is where I came in isn’t it?

 

 

 

[bunface @bunface]

is the Games’ Master feeding on the Doctor’s tears?

@juniperfish

Oh blimey not sure but I’m now thinking that the Doctor may be turning them on.

Really convinced he’s performing. What about that line about 600 years being a good long time for the shapeshifters to ‘suffer’ once he’d exacted revenge? Shades of the mercilessness we saw with Tennant?

I don’t think that what we’re seeing is what we’re going to get. Maybe that’s the twist at the end of this series. Ooh.

[bunface @bunface]

I am forever a fan of Alan Cumming’s version of Cabaret.

@juniperfish

Have only ever seen the film, would love to see a stage version, and yes, Cumming and also Redmayne… and anyone really!

[Orionhunt @orionhunt]

In the scene where the dr meets rogue. Billie eilishs bad guy is playing. It could just be a stylistic choice but I think it could have a deeper meaning I’m unsure what but it just doesn’t sit right for the time period

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

<span class=”useratname”>@devilishrobby My hope is a new River. Bit amoral, but goes all in with the Doctor.

</span>

I did play with an idea of a stray regeneration of River for a second. Would have been fun, but probably not.

[BobbyFatv2 @bobbyfatv2]

I feel like a bonkers theory is tantalisingly just out of reach, but something along the lines that the whole series is about role playing and artifice, from the multiple Susan Twist appearances, the divergent Rubies in 73 Yards, the fake friendships of Dot and Bubble and now the cos players… a nagging feeling that something is not right in this universe…excited now for the next two episodes

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

Sorry Mr Quill’s gas attack (with the black mouth make up) was of course NOT Web of Fear but Fury from the Deep.

Just so you know.

[Cath Annabel @cathannabel]

Re the Doctor’s tears, I recalled just now several episodes when Amy shed tears without knowing that she was doing so, let alone why (can’t remember exactly at what point this was, but it includes the Van Gogh ep). So rather than the Doctor turning the tears on, for whatever purpose (cf @bunface), could they be an involuntary response to something he knows but doesn’t know he knows (presumably relating to the Toymaker and his machinations)? I’ve not fully thought this through as it only just occurred to me whilst reading these comments.

[bunface @bunface]

@cathannabel

So rather than the Doctor turning the tears on, for whatever purpose (cf @bunface), could they be an involuntary response to something he knows but doesn’t know he knows (presumably relating to the Toymaker and his machinations)? 

Oh yes, I like that. Makes me want to review all the crying to see whether he looks like he doesn’t know why he’s crying!

It makes perfect sense, though, that he could be aware of, but not fully comprehending, what’s going on precisely. A bit of the old making up a plan but not knowing what it is until it’s already happening kinda thing! That’s one of the qualities I love in this programme: the rollercoaster feeling that no one (programme makers or characters) is quite in control of it all, but having faith that we’ll get there in the end!

[Mudlark @mudlark]

That was highly enjoyable, starting off, lightly enough, in the style of regency romance – if more Georgette Heyer than Jane Austen, or perhaps as Ruby enthused, more Bridgerton, (though I can’t speak for the latter, since I have never watched the show). Even the avian aliens would have been fun and quite appealing if it had not been for their resort to serial murder in their desire for kicks, and in any case it was a foregone conclusion that that the Doctor would find a way to thwart them.

What made this episode for me, ultimately, was the way in which, threaded through this relatively lightweight but entertaining plot was the delicately handled build up to the touching and emotional devastating conclusion, and the success of this was largely down to the way that  Gatwa and Jonathan Goff subtly conveyed their connection, from the first, flirtatious exchanges to the harrowing self sacrifice of Rogue. The term is ‘chemistry’ I think*. The impact was all the more more powerful for Rogue and his altruistic action being in stark contrast to the behaviour of the Finetime brats in last week’s episode.  In Regency costume Rogue looked Byronic (check out the portraits) which was no doubt the effect they were aiming at. I  hope that the Doctor will succeed in tracking him down before too long, I much prefer him to Captain Jack.

As others have noted, in these monsters-of the-week-there was a distinct echo of the Family of Blood, and a there was also a  similarity in the uncharacteristic vindictiveness with which the Doctor contemplated a punishment for both.

@thane16  Thanks for pointing out the variations on the Doctor Who theme in the music at the duchess’s ball. With my tin ear I probably wouldn’t have spotted them. With regard to the background music, I first watched the episode this morning on i-player, viewed on a large screen monitor connected to my computer, then again on my TV this evening. On the computer sound system the music was intrusive to the point of being annoying; on the TV sound system the balance was fine.

 

*Don’t pay attention if I fail to keep up with modern terms and references.  It has recently come to my attention that I am a month older than Joe Biden, which apparently means – at least in some quarters – that I must be in the late stages of dementia. It would be unladylike to post my response here, but I imagine it is the same as that of Biden behind  closed doors.

[syzygy @thane16]

Did we all see the unexplained extra Doctor-face during the scan onboard Rogue’s ship??

[syzygy @thane16]

And could he be a “bad” doctor? Don’t want to say too much here….?

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Random thoughts about what this episode might reveal about what is to come.

• Dates:  From “The Giggle” until now there have been some important dates: 1925 – When John Logie Baird recorded the first moving image and voice of Stooky Bill which would lead to television, and therefore, to “Doctor Who”.
• Music: What Stooky Bill utters is an Arpeggio, which is notes of a chord performed one after another.
• Dates: 1963- When “Doctor Who” begins. Also  when The Doctor and Ruby arrive in London. Also  when Maestro attempts to ensure the destruction of the world.
• Music: Maestro is puzzled by Ruby emoting the Carol of the Bells, which is metrically bistable, ie, a four note repeated melodic phrase in 3/4 time and a bell pealing in 6/8 time. A listener can focus on either measure or switch between them.
• Dates: 2005-Ruby is born and “Doctor Who” begins again.
• Music: At the church we hear (for the first time) “The Carol of Bells” at the church. We also hear “0The Carol of Bells when Ruby is captured by by Maestro and the music comes out of her and Maestro cannot understand how Ruby contains the music.
• Date and Music:1813 The whole episode (“Rogue”) is a historical pastiche, and the music is contemporary–Billie Eilish, Kylie Minogue, etc, etc.

And the point is?

Coming after dinner.

 

 

[Krathoon @krathoon]

I do have a hairbrained theory that the Doctor and Ruby may not actually be in reality, but some God’s Nintendo and it all started when the Doctor spilled the salt.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Well, I am not sure my conclusions to my previous post can match the excellence of the dinner.

Conclusion 1: Music is central to the season, and is central to whether or not Earth survives.

Conclusion 2: Ruby is associated with music in a way that makes her special (and potentially capable of saving humanity).

Conclusion 3: Ever since she ran away on adventures with the Doctor, they may have been having adventures in an alternate timeline/reality/ universe.

Conclusion 4: What we have been seeing ever since “The Church on Ruby Road” may have been a creation of an alternate AI-generated reality created by Triad Technology run by S. Triad (ie, Susan Twist).

 

 

[Craig @craig Emperor]

Just a note on the music played at the dances, be that versions of Billie Eilish’s Bad Guy, or of the Doctor Who theme itself.

I did watch the first season of Bridgerton. It wasn’t really my thing but I watched it while up in Scotland with my Mum and quite enjoyed it. One of the selling points was that all the music played at the dances were modern tunes, just made to sound Regency, Classical or whatever you call it. I remember picking out quite a few.

There’s a nice playlist of them here (including Bad Guy) if you want to chill out for an hour.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@thane16

There I was going on about faces from Morbius and I missed it! Duh.

Could be an AI adjusted Phillip Hinchcliffe? Nothing like the others. And indeed were it he, where are the others?

You’re being coy… so 2 obvious thesp candidates

Obviously the er… tube map is all over the doctor’s time stream. Who knows where intelligence will get you. It begs the question, could someone else reappear in its wake… someone who ‘awaits’ a return to Gallifrey? Last seen in Testimony.

But this particular actor does bear a strong resemblance.

Or… only a little less similar is another known incarnation… NOT to be found in a ‘barnyard’ if my memory of CB’s hammy bluster is correct.

[WhoHar @whohar]

Well, that was quite charming.

[WhoHar @whohar]

@krathoon

I had a similar theory, namely that the entire season is in some kind of fictional world.

And, as I have also posted elsewhere, I am also offering up the return of Omega as the One Who Waits.

@mudlark

I’ve never thought your writing was old fashioned. Your postings on here have a mellifluous quality, and are always well considered.

[syzygy @thane16]

@ps1l0v3y0u

by Testimony do you mean the alien in Twice Upon A Time?
To be fair, I REALLY need new glasses! (Possibly a better memory…)

[syzygy @thane16]

you mean … in the “yard!” I’m NOT sayin’ it here! 🙂  🙂

[syzygy @thane16]

But can we add that MJ died only this year? The actor playing the …..

a very nice nod….

Puro.

[spacedmunkee @spacedmunkee]

Hi all, been a loooong time last since posting.

Based on two major threads this season – music, and changes to history (mavity). One could assume, there’s a Goodbye Ruby Tuesday. . . I mean Sunday coming.

 

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@thane16

By Testimony I mean Lancashire Sass. Waiting to greet the corvid. She hangs out with another woman with attitude and a bad memory.

To tell the truth the 4th in the sequence looks more like ‘the other one’… not MJ.

Unless MJ = ‘the other’??? A distillation of dark??

Also… snowflakes??

What actually WAS the thing that apparently started in Victorian London… in the snow?

Mind you the faces all seem to have received some treatment. Bill and Colin came off well. Matt and Chris both seem to have had a root vegetable inserted somewhere. I was wondering about Pat but there he is just before Sylvester, and after… I imagine it’s supposed to be Paul but quite honestly that looks more than a little like the young Robert Holmes… And who is to say Sylvester is the last mug before the edit?

Also, does Rogue stop really when he sees all the incarnations… or was it pretty skinny man that stopped him short? I’m studying the sequence but really there’s no reason why 14 should be first.

 

[syzygy @thane16]

Yes, he does look more like the other one…

I think 14 is first as he’s the most recent in the “new new new” Who on Disney +?
They all DO look odd- as if a mirror has been shifted so that their chins look more pronounced, or at least the bottom of their faces…?

I thought it could be R.E.G. too… but the forehead is odd. And also why? Unless this is the ‘reveal?’
I recently rewatched The Snowmen aaand I think they’re monsters produced from the child’s memory (that is, the GI as a child) with the snow mimicking him and then melting due to Clara’s tears. I think those stories are tidied away…. But the GI could return and so could the ….one rhyming with barnyard…. 🙂

[syzygy @thane16]

Ah THOSE snowflakes… ❄️ I think this is part of whomever (and wherever) left Ruby…

I think her role is more complex than I originally thought (though others have surmised this pretty quickly!)

Is this person an old TL? Or a nasty god-type person? As others suggested, The Game Maker, maybe?

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@thane16

the first one could equally be 10! The only definite sequential ones are PD and CB. I have previously wondered whether Ruth was really pre 1… we never actually SAW Troughton become Pertwee…

But, if the GI is all the Doctor’s timeline, can it really be tidied away?

I just speculate that GI managed to hijack one of The Doctor’s regenerations. MJ looked as much like REG as Bradley and Hurndall looked like Hartnell. Of course The Loon messed up the narrative: he… they are a loon!

And AI has been mentioned more than once… are Ruby and Doc stuck in the Matrix?? Susan Twist/Triad therefor being a Matrix projection of Sexyidris?

Is Ruby like Brendan… a projection of The Doctor?

[syzygy @thane16]

Rubs chin… “Ruby a projection of the Doctor?!” I like it.

Yes, also a possibility that Susan Twist is the TARDIS too.  And what did Mrs Flood say awhile back? “Haven’t you seen a TARDIS before?”
As you say, & others too, that AI is a big thing this ‘season’ (1) and certainly Dot & Bubble were a large clue in that direction -or better yet an example, rather than clue.

(1) I also feel short changed with only 8 episodes. 🙁 Mind you everybody [Apple etc]  has 8 episode runs but with something so pregnant with sci fi philosophies and Who narratives, it tends to feel a tad thin now…The Moffat years were deliciously chunky and filling.

[FozzyB @fozzyb]

Is this Dr incapable of saving anyone? Yet again another weak Dr led episode.  Once again in this series , Dr does nothing and it left to a random bounty to save the day and Ruby in particular. I am falling to see the point of ur lead character being so weak and emotional.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@thane16

Well Ruby = Brendan… ish… that would make the foundling thing less of an imposed structure.

Brendan was the best thing Zchib did. I got quite excited. Then… meh.

8 eps? Who knows, maybe Parkinson’s Law may come into play and this will all turn out deliciously snappy and flavoursome. No more the labouring Utopia Trilogy or The Stolen (bell) End. Get it RIGHT Russ! The tedious Time War is over. And we’re talking yenormous wodkas my friend!

Mrs Flood though? No idea. (I think she’s pre Mel River)

We’re being played. Bring it on.

@fozzyb

Do you want GAAD HIMSELF to appear in a cloud of fart and then astral lightening the mooks? Or maybe rip their hearts out Dumb n Dumber stylee??? U bin watchin too much Marvel mate! Dat is bad fur ur brain. Eat more pulses. Chill.

Also… he has fallen in lust. Awwww! Have you only the emotional depth of a teaspoon, man?!!!

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