S33 (7) 12 – The Crimson Horror

[ardaraith @ardaraith]

Ok – WHY is the GI looking for the smartest and the best?  In BoSJ, everyone uploaded needed superb computer skills, and Mrs Gillyflower wanted only the best.  Mr Sweets didn’t seem to care, he just provided the deadly juice to wipe the supstandard specimens off the planet. Perhaps the GI was involved in CH, after all.

[Bobbyfat @bobbyfat]

i thought mrs gallifrey, sorry, gillyflower, reminded me of some of the naysayers on the grauniad…hell and damnation, moral turpitude, same sex inter-species relationships, disgusting, cancel the series

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

Angie & Artie

@thommck – Angie reminds me strongly of the creepy kid in Power of Three – who turns out to be a robot.

Angie and Artie – NG and RT? Robot serial numbers? Clara’s already made a reference to Pinocchio.

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@dalektable tea, scones, the lot! Welcome.

The Doctor is married but we’re not sure at this point whether he has said goodbye to River at The Singing Towers, so he might be on the grief-rebound.  In any case, I suspect, given that River once dated a nestene duplicate with a swappable head sometime on her travels after she met the Doc, that they have a timey-wimey non-monogamous arrangement. 

I’m a huge River fan. She’d just roll her eyes at the Doc’s little flirtations and then make him hugely jealous by out-playing him with Jenny, Captain Jack, everyone 🙂

 

 

[dalektable @dalektable]

TY for the welcome Juniperfish, I’ll grudgingly accept the timey-wimey open marriage. River is awesome squared. River and Capn Jack would be too hot for teatime! I might have to go and have a little think about that one *fans self*

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

Hi, @dalektable. Have a jammy dodger.

I think this Clara is possibly the original; she seems to have no connection to the other two – but Future Clara has her computer skills and Victorian Clara has Future Clara’s passion for souffles. I’m not sure this Clara has even mentioned souffles – or any egg-based foodstuffs.

The one thing they all are is some kind of nanny.

[Pufferfish @pufferfish]

Hello, shoal! I really loved all of that but the prehistoric bug has put me right off lobster. Totally right that the big temperance fan had a Naked Lunch version of hypocrisy going on. They normally do.

Oh, and I’m in a lovely anagram jungle with Ava Gilleyflower because A GALLIFREY VOWEL amongst others!

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

Angie and Artie

After some thought: any bets on NG – News Group and RT – retweet?

 

[idiotsavon @idiotsavon]

LOVED it!  Haven’t got anything clever to say myself, just really enjoyed watching. But looking forward to reading all the theories on here.  Still enjoying the “Thomas Thomas” gag.

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

@pufferfish

A GALLIFREY VOWEL

Loving that – although a slight re-arrange gives AW …. GALLIFREY LOVE which will keep the “Shippers” (as I think @pedant termed them) happy.

[Timeloop @timeloop]

Back again, rewatched it and actually made notes while watching (cant remember ever doing that for a TV-show) so I dont forget anything. Then I read everything here till #7766 … 1,2,3…12 post-its later here is what I got:

So further thoughts on the episode (in the order I noticed):

+ I liked the faiting act, all 3 of them looked real to me

+ It was really heartbreaking to see the doctor so helpless- not even able to speak. Although his appearence was not as shocking when I could catch the beginning. More child-friendly that way.

+How exactly does the steam help Clara and the Doctor?? There is no lightswitch between blue and red, but there is a different light while the Doctor gets back to his old form. There is a green light in progress and a red one when he opens the door…. ? That might be something. His sonic does no produce that much light?

What effect could the “preservation process” have for Clara? Long-term and all?

+I am very interested in the confidential of the episode!

+The doctor seems so much happier to me then in the other episode (Center of the TARDIS). Why? Did he figure something out?

+In the picture of the eye of that man the doctors mouth is closed and in the actual moment the mouth is open. Why? I dont think that is an coincident! @htpbdet No way that would be “artistic licence” – It happend in the last episode as well. That could actually be hidden in plain sight. If you just remember a picture but not how the Doctor (and the brothers) looked that could be a good clue, but for what? Any ideas?

+The Mother (Ms Gilliflower) does not even look at her daugther when she refuses “eden” to her. Why so?

+Absolutely loved the strax being treated as a child “did you eat…” “noooo…?” he even mumbles when he leaves the room

++I think that comment is very important in a way: Vastra says “you have unfinished business” (with clara) What does she imply?

+The Doctor is sooooo inclined to Clara, why?!? “miss me?” “yeah, loads” @ardaraith You really think River could watch that?? & Shouldnt I mention what is in “Next time” in here? & RYCBAR was the Wifi-pw so nothing that girl should  not have  known.

+I did not catch the “wrong hands” the first time. Nice one.

+Doctor after the rocket launched”I dont think so Ms Gilliflower” *big simle* liked that bit

+Ada killing Mr Sweet somehow reminds me of the Master. And one of this last words “Always the woman” @davemorris316 nice idea of yours with the master

+Why does the Doctor not care being called a monster? He never even once proposed to use his “real” name

+he “looks like your boyfriend” and Clara actually looks like she is caught in the act – quite upsets me. But I faintly remember reading that SM said something about a love triangle and that it is not what we would expect it to be- so I keep my hopes up.

@htpbdet @feralcat The TARDIS might did not go where the Doctor wanted because he needed to be somewhere else?? Or she wanted to protect Clara?? Intriguing what business the Doctor had in London. Did he really want to confront both Claras?

@phaseshift What is a mouthy Australian?

@bluesqueakpip I kind of remember a camera in Cold War? Maybe there have been some in other occasions as well? & River and the Doctor have some kind of an open Relationship, you reckon?

@scaryb Yes, very good acting indeed! But so violent and nobody really cares…& Yes, you are the only one who recognises something phallic

@juniperfish Which troll?

@bobbyfat I agree with you, the flashback was amazingly good

@all Who is Dan? And where did he recommend this? I am sorry but I really dont know =/ (& how can I leave out the additional space when pressing enter?)

and finally @jimthefish Love that! Especially because of what we saw in “Next time”!

[Timeloop @timeloop]

@juniperfish I actually heard the swappable head refered to the Tesalecter

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@bluesqueakpip

Angie and Artie

After some thought: any bets on NG – News Group and RT – retweet?

Love that.

There’s also the Arthurian ref for Artie (Caliburn House); Working on Angela 😉  Re Hide – was that in 1973?  Crimson H is 1893 (again), and CW was 1983.  Just a meta-ref to decade jumps from 1963, or…?  And we are currently watching in 2013… (I think 😉 )

[BadWulf @badwulf]

Hi – Short-term lurker here (since JttCotT), found via the Graun.

Loved the episode, even if it was a variation on Moonraker (which itself was a variation on The Spy Who Loved Me).

Am presuming that, with all this talk of a “dark Doctor”, the current fandom consensus is that “the Fall of the Eleventh” means “fall” like Lucifer/Anakin Skywalker, not fall as in Nelson at Trafalgar. Is this correct?

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@badwulf (love the moniker) Welcome. (I believe there might still be some jammy dodgers left on the sofa. (Next to the very large bath full of speculating fish)

Re consensus – very little on here, mate! But LOTS of theories haha. Fall could be anything from fall (as in failure or defeat), death, autumn, a wee trip over a step, a long jump downwards (as in rabbit hole)… “Silence will fall” is also associated with Trenzalore

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

@timeloop

What is a mouthy Australian?

I was laughing so much I actually misquoted. His line was:

“I once spent a hell of a long time trying to get a gobby Australian to Heathrow airport,”

It’s a callback to a character called Tegan who travelled mainly in the Fifth Doctors run. The Doc spent an entire series trying to get her back to Heathrow. He used to say “Brave heart Tegan” a lot, so “Brave heart Clara” in this episode. Here she is:

[Timeloop @timeloop]

@phaseshift Thanks so much, a real insider.
@everybody new: welcome! New theories are always welcome =)      (figured the enter-thing out)

[BadWulf @badwulf]

@scaryb Heh – if there was consensus, I suppose it would be no fun!

Something else has been bugging me – everyone has been talking about 3 Claras, but I can only see the need for 2. This is because, although we have seen 3 different eras, we have only seen 2 fates (death and dalekisation). Is there any reason to suppose that Dalek Oswin is not the ultimate fate of the current travelling companion? After all, she did take on the nickname Oswin in tBoSJ (or at least liked it!)

Were there any egg references in today’s episode?

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@bluesqueakpip – Re Arthur and Angela – maybe I should only have looked as far as my own avatar for sinister “angel” connections!

[overunder @jamesunderscore]

That was a bit good, wasn’t it!

I particularly enjoyed the sort of horribly corrupted version of the Quakeresque “enlightened industrialism” of people like Cadbury and Rowntree. Sweetville was like a nightmare Bournville!

Thought the red makeup was brilliantly old school, but very effective for all that, and the dialogue was brilliant – Diana Rigg had some of the best lines of the series so far, particularly the exchange with Ada: “The bright day is done, child, and you are for the dark.”

Also loved that the leech/lobster thing was really just a mindless animal, and the true evil was all in Mrs. Gillyflower’s heart. Brilliant writing.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@badwulf – 3 Claras – need 3 Claras or we run out after 2 deaths! (If this version is supposed to turn into the dalekised one, through her travels with the Dr – then why doesn’t she remember the Dr when she’s a dalek?)

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

@bluesqueakpip – In The Power of Three, the girl (in the Hospital) is an ‘Outlier Droid’. It always struck me as irrelevant to that plot & therefor a loose thread to be tied up later…

Perhaps more Droids have been taking sneaky photos this series…

As I’ve already said, Tom Tom seemed very robotic (beyond the joke).

Also there’s a fair chance that the Maitlands are also a bunch of Robo-Spies….or that it’s yet another clever Red-Herring!

@badwulf – Also loving the name & avatar!

[dislikesswimmingalone @dislikesswimmingalone]

Hello again everyone! Any jammy dodgers left?

@holymackerel — Winifred Gillyflower —
Refiling Wily Red Wolf?
Wild Wolf Refine Girly??
Red Wife Wolf Ring Lily???
Who knows?

@scaryb – the only thing tinternet throws up for 1893 1983 is…
Joan Miro 1893-1983, painter.

Quoted as saying his work “always takes place in THREE stages: first, the suggestion, always forms the material; second, the conscious organization of these forms; and third, the compositional enrichment.” He also states that he could be inspired by anything, like a crack on the wall.

His life philosophy was “you must always plant your feet firmly on the ground if you want to jump into the air. The fact that I come down to Earth from time to time makes it possible to jump all the higher.”

Gilliflower is interesting in that it is – Dianthus (Diana?) or a Carnation from the old French meaning flesh colour

[BadWulf @badwulf]

@scaryb I see your point, although I see no reason to not believe that dalekisation doesn’t mess with your memory.

I’m not sure what the most parsimonious explanation is, though – dalek induced amnesia or multiple spooky resurrections.

I will be gravely disappointed if any of the following turn out to be true:

1) Clara is a regeneration of River

2) Clara has anything to do with Rose and the parallel universe (including hand-Doctor)

3) The “Power of Love” has scattered her throughout time

My preference is that there is some link with Susan, although the touchy-feeliness would then have some Skywalkeresque awkwardness about it.

Also, did RoA take place in past. present or future. If it’s the past, could Grandfather have been a precursor to the GI? If it’s the future, could Grandfather have been a future form of the GI? Either way, could the multiple CLaras then be an effect of the “infinite possibilities” that she communicated via leaf to Grandfather?

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

@dislikesswimmingalone – Miro is a very nice find! Thank you!

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

Well I’ve had  a wee re-watch looking for song pass-keys.

The unfortunates at Gillyflower’s lecture were singing Jerusalem and Mrs. G herself sang To Be a Pilgrim as she pulled the rocket launch lever. She also played the organ. So there you go. These were narratively incidental rather than instrumental of course…

@jamesunderscore

horribly corrupted version of the Quakeresque “enlightened industrialism” of people like Cadbury and Rowntree

Yes indeed,  although versions of Gillyflower’s eugenicist mission was alive and kicking in the 19thC. Still not quite sure what Mr. Sweet was getting out of it, other than permanent residence on Mrs. Gillyflower? 

In fact eugenics and or miscegenation seems to be an ongoing theme. I’m thinking about Oswin Dalek but the GI was also “selecting” certain people in both its appearances. The Queen of Years was “bred” to be the keeper of songs in tRoA. 

Perhaps the Doctor’s historic crime (the crime older than the genocide of the Time War) was some kind of Time Lord genetic experimentation. That is strongly foreshadowed in A Town Called Mercy (it being Jex’s crime).

[HolyMackerel @holymackerel]

Has there ever been an episode with so many kisses? Doctor was snogging and face stroking all over the place. Meaning?

[BadWulf @badwulf]

@phaseshift It’s good to see classic-era Tegan again! My first memory of Doctor Who is being spooked by the Melkur in Keeper of Traken at age 5, but my first real following of the story came with Logopolis and Castrovalva – so Tegan being “outspoken” on the TARDIS seemed like the default  setting for the series.

Recently I’ve observed that fandom doesn’t seem to fond of the character, or the crowded TARDIS of that era – but to me it will always be the way the TARDIS “originally” looked!

That stewardess uniform is very … purple, though! It makes her look like she’s from some weird variant of Starfleet!

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@badwulf

Also, did RoA take place in past. present or future. If it’s the past, could Grandfather have been a precursor to the GI? If it’s the future, could Grandfather have been a future form of the GI? Either way, could the multiple CLaras then be an effect of the “infinite possibilities” that she communicated via leaf to Grandfather?

That’s an interesting call. Or a previous form (before it goes off to Earth)?  Hmm, have to think about that. (title- Rings of…  a ref to Clara’s rings (her mother’s presumably, and memory potent), or rings as in the ripples when you drop a stone in the water)

And yes @wolfweed @dislikesswimmingalone Great Miro ref <brain explodes with all the literary, arty refs, meta-refs,  memes, themes and theories in NuWho!>

[ardaraith @ardaraith]

@juniperfish – I would like to reiterate one of my few bonkers theories: made during JttCotT.  The Doctor was ‘doctoring’ back on Galliefry, specifically with TimeLord biological (or genetic) capabilities–perhaps even the way they reginerate or travel through time–and ‘made’ a new type of Time Lord.  Fearing his creation would fall into the ‘wrong hands’, he fled, taking his creation–his ‘granddaughter’–with him.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

ardaraith OR… the Doctor is the artificial construct and, by travelling with humans (for the last 50 years)  learns empathy and how to become “a real boy” (like Pinnocho (ref’d earlier this series))

[Anonymous @]

@ardaraith – in The Christmas Carol, the Doctor says to young Kazran something like ‘or you could be like me, staying in and inventing a new type of screwdriver’.  Which does indicate he not only likes to tinker but had plenty of lonely time to do it in.

@dislikesswimmingalone – well, Joan Miro certainly meets the criteria of ‘paintings’ (Matt Smith’s description of what’s important about this series).  Great find!  Cold War could have happened in any number of years and Crimson Horror as well, so perhaps we shouldn’t assume that 1893 and 1983 were randomly selected.  But is it just a task S Moffat set for the fanbase – and if so, well done you! – to link ‘paintings’ with Joan Miro (i.e., it has no overall impact on the arc)?

And @badwulf, good point about when Rings was set.  Anyone know?

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

As some sharp eyed music fan pointed out on the Grauniad, Jerusalem is massively out of time – that was Parry’s setting, and it was written in 1916.

To Be A Pilgrim was last sung in Human Nature, where it foreshadowed the return of the Master. Again, the version used is out of time – “I’ll labour night and day/To be a pilgrim” is the 1906 English hymnal rewrite, not the original words by Bunyan. I think she’s also using the 1906 Ralph Vaughan Williams tune.

So – two hymns, both wrong period. Given all the computer references, I think the Doctor’s already been uploaded, or he’s downloading his memories. We’re watching this in flashback, and that’s why things are ‘wrong’ – he’s trying to fill in the gaps in his memories and sometimes getting small details wrong.

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@holymackerel

Re the Doctor and his flirt-fest. He did seem to have taken his happy pills this week.

Maybe the writers are having a laugh about the two versions of the Doctor running around fandom – asexual Doctor and sexual Doctor, and they sometimes depict a flustered sexually inept Doctor and sometimes a rather smooth flirty Doctor just to troll the lot of us 🙂

Now, what’s with all the red? I think “blood calls to blood” from Hide is probably significant:

Crimson, eleven, delight, petrichor.

The Crimson Horror.

Clara’s affinity for red outfits.

Red bow-ties = red shift = an expanding universe after the (triple) Big Bang.

The Through the Looking Glass references, which lead to the Red Queen.

The Little Red Riding Hood references (explicitly referenced in the Power of Three).

The Rose references (not that all roses are red of course, but that’s the first image of a rose that usually comes to mind).

All points to the blood kin of the Doctor as significant I think and probably also to the shedding of blood/ the crimes of the Doctor.

[Anonymous @]

I need to re-watch, but the picture of the Doctor in the dead man’s eyes I believe was himself in the beginning, but when we see that moment happen later, he’s Red Doctor.

Also, there was a lot of red in the room where Mrs G was sermonising.

[BadWulf @badwulf]

@scaryb On the Graun blog, Drewv has noted that the toy being played with by the kids at the end was the Transformer Galvatron, who, if memory serves, was a rebuilt Megatron intended to act as an agent for the planet-sized entity Unicron, rather like the Silver Surfer acts as a herald for Galactus in the Marvel universe (I may have not got my facts quite straight, as I am neither a comic book fan, nor have I ever seen the Transformers cartoon movie – I just absorbed this info via osmosis during my childhood!)

If this was an intentional reference, maybe Clara/Oswin has a similar function for Grandfather/the GI, and the resurrection business is simply a new model being produced from the original template, who died in Victorian times after the ice-nanny failed.

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@Shazzbot – Yes you’re right – the first picture was ordinary Doctor, the second was “red Doctor”. Huzzah for more doppleganger Doctors!

@bluesqueakpip – oh nice on the out-of-time song references. I don’t know whether that means we’re seeing a flash-back, or whether it means that we are seeing an alteration of the time-lines. Perhaps we are, presently, in a not-quite-copy mirror universe…

On another note, I guess the Doctor was trying to get to Victorian London to see whether the TARDIS would permit it. If Clara now is the same Clara as Victorian Clara then presumably Old Sexy would avoid a paradox. The fact she took them to Yorkshire not London must surely suggest the Claras are the same person?

 

[HolyMackerel @holymackerel]

Watching 8th Doctor film on Netflix now. So far have Frankenstein’s monster and fainting.

[BadWulf @badwulf]

@juniperfish The three exploding TARDISes is still my favourite explanation for the whole Matt Smith era, and I really hope that Steven Moffat has had a long term plan to tie up the loose threads left hanging after the end of Seasons 5 and 6.

 

[BadWulf @badwulf]

@juniperfish

“On another note, I guess the Doctor was trying to get to Victorian London to see whether the TARDIS would permit it. If Clara now is the same Clara as Victorian Clara then presumably Old Sexy would avoid a paradox. The fact she took them to Yorkshire not London must surely suggest the Claras are the same person?”

Surely the Doctor “needed to be” in Yorkshire to defeat the Crimson Horror – and that is all the justification Sexy needs to take him there? Paradox avoidance is not required as a motive.

(it’s too late in the evening for me to be working HTML tags out!)

[Anonymous @]

I wonder if Lorna Bucket will get a look-in as part of the tidying-up.  Or, will she remain forever a loose end?  Or, was the reason the Doctor couldn’t remember her in aGMGtW … it was another version of the Doctor who met her? (cf @juniperfish)

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@juniperfish – I think ‘taken his happy pills’ was an excellent description; though perhaps it was simply Mark Gattis deciding that a Doctor who’s just been released from mute imprisonment would be a very happy Doctor indeed. 🙂

Regarding young Thomas Thomas – he did seem very robotic, didn’t he? But if you look at his function in the plot, what he does is get Strax to Sweetville in time to save the Doctor and Clara from the Supermodels. Then he points out the activity on the chimney, allowing Strax to be in position to shoot Mrs Gillyflower.

So if Tom Tom is a robot satnav: is he from the Big Bad? Or is he, like the Doctor-spoonhead in Bells of St John, a robot that’s being used by the good guys?

The other question I’d ask is whether time is being rewritten – while I didn’t like last week’s episode, it was very well written. And it contained a loop in which the Doctor goes round, and round, and round until he finally both stops getting himself killed and saves the TARDIS.

Thinking about this half of the series, we’ve had an awful lot of episodes where the Doctor would have died – if someone else (usually Clara) hadn’t come in to save him. So I’m going back to my idea right from S5 – are we watching a giant timey-wimey loop?

[Anonymous @]

I braved the G blog and someone pointed out there’s a few characters this series who are woken up / brought back after being in stasis / away for a long while – the Ice Warrior, Grandfather, the lady in Hide etc; you could even argue Imelda Staunton’s character in BoSJ fits this as well.

So, the Doctor’s ‘fall’ at Trenzalore will be a fall out of bed whilst he’s dreaming all of this?!  (ha ha, NO-ONE would repeat the Bobby in Dallas horror)  But I agree with whoever said it above, there are too many definitions of ‘fall’ to assume a single meaning with respect to Doriam’s warning.

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

@badwulf (Welcome)

Recently I’ve observed that fandom doesn’t seem to fond of the character, or the crowded TARDIS of that era – but to me it will always be the way the TARDIS “originally” looked!

Yes – I wrote something similar on our “Faces of the Doctor” Thread. I think I stand by the comment, but it does read as if I disliked Tegan. I actually liked her frequent pops at the Doctor, and I think she was fantastic in the Mara stories.

She could bloody whine in that first series though!

***As a fan, her anecdote about “popping out” of her boob-tube in the middle of television centre with Peter Davison gleefully running back to makeup made me weep with laughter. Janet Fielding is a class act***

[Anonymous @]

Speaking of crowded Tardises, how about 10’s when simply everyone was crammed in and helping to fly her, towing the Earth back home.  (Except Jackie, of course!)

I’m actually in favour of more than one companion.  There’s too much intensity in the Doctor-companion relationship when there’s only the two of them.  However, Rose had Mickey(aka Rickey!), Amy had Rory – i.e., sexual and romantic tension which got boring and samey imo.

What would be the best multiple-companion scenario, though?  A human and an(other) alien?  If two humans, what should their relationship be – or should they be two people plucked from different time periods and no previous relationship at all?  Two females / two males / one of each ?

I ask this question not strictly as fishing for more details on Classic Who, but also in the spirit of how the show can best move forward in a refreshed way.

[OsakaHatter @osakahatter]

Really enjoyed that.  Have always been a bit surprised to see Gatiss named as potential future showrunner, given his previous eps haven’t exactly been consistent (and despite people’s varying views on Moffat’s tenure, there seems to be universal acclaim for his episodes under RTD) but he’s written two cracking stories for this series.  Not sure what benefit destroying most of the population held for Mr Sweet, but that aside, it was thoroughly enjoyable.

Another episode after TROA with a religious element.  I think an army of clerics may yet be returning.  Possibly with River?

Interesting after the discussions about family, parents missing children etc in the JTTCOTT pages to see an episode showing the damage a parent has done by being around.  Mothers and daughters again, I’m sure that will be relevant to the mystery of who/what Clara is.  Given all the film references we’ve had this year, I’m wondering if we are actually going to get a riff on the Luke/Leia love triangle – but with the Doctor and Jenny being related, not Clara.

Was the ‘monster’ doctor chained up behind a door with a red circular window?  Another Dalekification – eye turret reference?  And red, of course…

Clara seemed far more assured.  Was wondering about Victorian Clara who was happy to follow the doctor and jump on his carriage, versus the current Clara who needs encouragement to follow.  Is she finding herself and gaining confidence?

Another reference to how the TARDIS is different now than she used to be.  Could this be because the Doctor is finally going where he needs to be, or has Idris given up trying to steer him for some reason?  Or just trying to amalgamate the unreliable TARDIS of old-who with the slightly more reliable version of nu-who?

Fall of the 11th – I (and I guess most people) assumed this was referencing the 11th Doc.  But what if its the fall of the 11th Cyber Fleet or something?

[adlerinthelibrary @adlerinthelibrary]

@juniperfish– the close-up of the eye that Jenny is looking at in the dark room with the Doctor in it could be interpreted as a Dalek eye…

 

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@badwulf – I think the Doc was heading to London see Vastra and Co to get their reaction to Clara – but the Tardis took him to where the Gang were heading (except, of course, they were heading there because they believed him in trouble, but the the Tardis does know everything all the time (per The Doctor’s Wife).

Was intrigued by the blasé reaction of the kids (although at may be a meta point re the plots being accessible to 8 year olds, per Moff). Duh! Of course you’re a time traveller!

 

 

 

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

Before I sign off for the night, ‘Gillyflower’ could be another ‘fourth wall’ reference. It’s botanical name is Matthiola incana.

To go with last week’s ‘Smiths’ key, perhaps?

[Lula @lula]

Strax:  “We are going to…the North!”

For all those who insist Doctor Who is being dumbed down for the American audience, let me assure you…I know nothing of Britain’s North/South divide, aside from Monty Python’s frequent, “There’s trouble at t’Mill” line.  Which was also uttered in this episode.  The Crimson Horror seemed to be full of these type of jokes/references, all of which were lost on me.  It didn’t take away from my enjoyment of the episode, though!

@juniperfish –because I know you’re a River-lover, like me.  I don’t mind the Doctor being Flirty McFlirterson–with either Jenny or Clara–because River herself is a terrific flirt.  (I long for a River/Jack episode.  Innuendos in Space, anyone?)  However, it seemed very out of character for him to initiate–nay, force–a kiss with a woman he knows is in a committed relationship. Especially since that committed relationship is with a woman who is not warm-blooded.  All of this to say…Dark Doctor is a theory growing on me with each passing week.

Sigh…as per usual, I need a second viewing of this episode!

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