S33 (7) 12 – The Crimson Horror

[thedoctordude @thedoctordude]

Awesome well written episode. A couple things I noticed…
The doctor uses a chair to break Clara out of her glass bubble and she uses that later on the machine.

The boy says he knows that he knows that the Doctor is an alien because of his chin. This is the same as was referenced in Hide about “sticking out like a big chin” and Oswin calling the doctor chin boy in AotD.

Very timey-wimey how the doctor doesn’t know how long he has been in the red state.

Gotta love the boy that sounds like a gps unit.

I think the doctor had Ada stand outside the door so she could hear what was going on. Mrs Galliflower still wanted to blast her up on the rocket anyway.
There also seemed to be several instances of the doctor having or not having a plan…I guess normal doctor who?

Dark doctor…blackness in a heart, calling him the monster…I guess we’ll see.

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

Loved that episode. Ada was especially well written and well played, sympathetic and unsettling- the moment when she said she would never forgive her mother and her mother said ‘that’s my girl’ beautifully avoided a pat resolution for her- (she’s ok now she’s had a hug or some such nonsense). And the doctors reaction when her mother held a gun against her head, more for Ada’s sake than his own. I think this character could easily come back on either side at the moment.

I think the comedy with Stax worked well to offset this. I do wonder about ‘Thomas Thomas’… it could easily just be a joke, and a very fine one, but if RTD hadn’t already done a ‘there’s a very sinister device in everybody’s car’ episode, I’d defiantly be thinking there is something more to it. Then again, that episode featured Sontarins…

Re: next week and the end of this episode- is it possible the children Clara is taking care of are part of a trap involving the Cybermen? Wittingly or unwittingly?

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@ardaraith

I’m replying to your post in JttCotT here because it was about this episode…

Honestly I don’t know why the Doc is so frisky with Clara one minute and so grandpaternal with her the next. I mentioned up-stream it could be a writers’ tease on the question of sexual/ asexual Doctor in fandom.

Or, are we seeing two actualised versions of the Doctor, hence the photographs of him in the dead man’s eye (as not red) did not match the red Doctor the guy actually encountered at his moment of passing?

@miapatrick <waves> Hello there – enjoyable Jane Eyre/ Wide Sargasso Sea discussion on the other place.

Yes cyborgs are a running theme from Oswin dalek to the GI uploading people to the Wi-Fi to Tricky in last week’s episode (who was not an android but did have cyber-vision), so maybe Clara’s charges are not what they seem…

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@juniperfish– *waves back* defiantly. Nice to come across someone else who’s read it.

[OsakaHatter @osakahatter]

@lula – I think kissing Jenny was just over exuberance on the Doctors part, presumably because of relief at being freed from petrification,  rather than any romantic intent.  Doc 11 has shown as more alien than 10 when it comes  to understanding human emotion and boundaries – his empathy for example seemingly rather inconsistent.  Of course, he could just becoming more flirty, thanks to River’s influence rubbing off on him!  I wonder if when he’s dropping Clara off, it’s because he’s going visiting River?

Oh, and to give you a completely unbiased 😉 overview of the North/South divide, everything boss about Britain (as we say in these parts) is from the North.  The BBC has recently accepted this fact and has moved North.  Christopher Eccleston is from the North.  Matt Smith is from a town that is named after the North in homage, so we’ve adopted it as our own.  David Tennant is from so far North that it becomes a different country and actually has it’s own South.  Which is still part of the North.  Both North and South Wales are also co-opted for The North, despite Cardiff being further south than large parts of England that are indisputably in the South.  This is largely due to the old Celtic kingdoms still being annoyed at having been overrun by Anglo-Saxons from the south east who were desperate to move north around 1500 years ago.  The secret desire to move North must still exist today, because all over the South, the road signs all have directions to The North.

 

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Well, finally got to see the episode in the colonies. A ripping yarn! Reminded me quite a bit of one of Gattis’s Lucifer Box novels.

Saw it as a stand alone, but must confess that the attitude of Clara towards the Doctor is starting to make me doubt my theory of Clara-as-daughter.  But we shall see.

Found it interesting that both Clara and the Doctor dress for the occasion. Think of the comparison with Amy, who could turn up in rural France in the 19th century with Van Gogh, wearing a mini skirt and boots (Amy, that is, not Van Gogh).

For me, there was, yet again, no evidence of a “dark” Doctor. The Doctor remained the moral core of the show.

In terms of where it is all leading, in Seasons 5 and 6 the Doctor knew precisely where everything was heading. He knew, for example (long before we did), that Amy was a ganger. He had a plan–Doctor as tessalector–that showed he was in control of his fate at Lake Silencio. Now, in this season, it would seem that he does not know what is going on with either Clara’s identity or with the Great Intelligence. But on the evidence of past experience of the Doctor seeming not to know, but in reality knowing all along…I wonder.

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

American advert/trail

[ardaraith @ardaraith]

I’ve been perusing previous threads here and found this, from @Bluespueakpip
“Conclusion: she might be a Timelord split through time; which for some reason means she can’t regenerate – the parts have to be reassembled.”
Also this, from @phaseshift – Clara Oswin Oswald – CO2 – ‘to sublime’ – moving from one form to another, while skipping a step in between.
Could the Doctor, having figured this out, gone traipsing about the universe collecting her parts, in order to reassemble her? It would certainly help explain the peculiar statement he made to Clara during Snowmen:  Remember this. This right now, remember all of it. Because this is the day. This is the day. This is the day everything begins. 

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

Can anyone explain the gramaphones & their hideous cacophony? Was that a Plan B (or indeed Plan A) that was overlooked? The Dr said he was sorry he couldn’t stick around for the clean up op…

[Anonymous @]

@wolfweed – still haven’t had a 2nd watch, but my immediate impression was that the gramophones were there to provide ‘machine sounds’ so that anyone outside would think it was a real working factory of some kind.  I loved the starkness of that huge open (but entirely empty) space which really should have been the main factory floor, but contained only relatively small fake sound-producers.

[HaveYouFedTheFish @haveyoufedthefish]

@thedoctordude – good point about the chair, that fits well under the “mirroring” thread, and “Clara not acting until she’s been show what to do”. The latter is troubling though – does that mean she was awake all along (faking the fugue) and watched the doc smash her bell jar, noting the use of chairs for later? Does that mean she’s not alive, in the conventional sense?

Also, why did the doc not use the screwdriver instead of a chair to break the jar, or consider if sudden exposure to air would be dangerous for her?

I don’t think the doc kissing Jenny is of much significance. I’ll bet it was just written as “doctor acts exuberant”, they impro’d and the kiss take made the edit. Clearly not indicative of 2 docs, as minutes later he’s uncomfortable with the dominatrix costume, so the same person can clearly have 2 contrasting reactions.

The kiss is most implausible for me because of “Kung fu Jenny” we see minutes later – if a possibly alien possessed doc mad a sudden unexplained lunge for Jen, she clearly would have thrown him over her head first and asked questions later (would have been a great moment, but then spoiled the reveal when she drops her cloak seconds later).

@juniperfish – I don’t see much problem with contrasting paternal then frisky actions on he part of he doc; it looks pretty clear to me his default mode is paternal, but Clara’s persona brings the friskiness to the surface briefly, then he realises and feels all self conscious, because he’s all of innately awkward, slightly suspicious, trying to be a responsible warden and married – all to great comic effect.

And Clara, as is default for all strong Moffatt women, visibly delights in the effect she can have on him (if moffatt has a fault, it’s that he writes all leading women as vamps without fail. If he could just embrace the possibility that women can be confident but not necessarly sexually confident as well … You know – just like men can … he’d come a long way as a writer)

[Anonymous @]

@ardaraith – Your quote “Remember this. This right now, remember all of it. Because this is the day. This is the day. This is the day everything begins” reminds me that we must be seeing things out of order.  Because isn’t it after this that the Doctor say, ‘OK, Clara, time to find out who you are!’

The Doctor suspected Amy was a ganger quite early on, but there were hints (if only in repeat viewings after learning this) in the previous episodes – him looking at the Tardis’s is she-isn’t she scan of Amy pregnancy, for example, but also some funny looks he gave her.

So far with Clara, we have him looking either totally flummoxed by the seeming paradox of her, or, saying things far too early on like ‘this is the day everything begins’.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Interesting comments on the anachronistic music choices. Reminded me a bit of the newspaper in the Snowmen (1940?).   Mrs G’s meeting was in the tradition of the temperance society meetings, evangelist meetings etc. However her eugenics philosophy reminded me of the Nazis in particular (1940s again?)

Also – 2 episodes in a row there has been a character who is blind, but who “sees” morality better than the other characters they are closest to.

Detail – Mr Sweet – Lady G sneakily feeding him some salt at the dinner table (Does he feed on the salt in her sweat?).  She takes care of Mr S better than she does her own daughter, whom she exploits (exhibits her as a freak), treats her as a slave, shows no love whatsoever etc).  She says v specifically that her relationship with Mr S is “symbiotic” – wonder what each gets out of it. Is there also a psychic link?   Did she start being monstrous to her daughter only after Mr S turned up, or was it always the same?  He is literally close to her bosom, he has supplanted her child.

Mr S is small, semi-cute but with little razor-sharp-looking teeth. A little bit phallic, a bit like a foetus.  Its pink nakedness looks vulnerable rather than threatening to me. And HOW did it get from prehistoric times to the 19th century without previously being detected? Are there more of them, scattered undetected in dark corners of our world, or was it “planted” here?  Maybe its horror is underplayed to underline the full horror of Mrs G’s monstously unhuman behaviour.

Memories/lack of – Ada seems unaware of her life before being blinded, and doesn’t remember the details of how it happened

 

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@lula – English North = American South, minus the Civil War bit.

 

[Anonymous @]

@HaveYouFedTheFish (and everyone else concerned about the kissyness of the Doctor in CH) –

The most human reaction to a near-death experience is to want to have sex (something I learnt in psychology class).  The Doctor isn’t human, but surely even TimeLords after coming this-close to snuffing it, want to reach out and exuberantly embrace not only the person who saved them but anyone else within grabbing distance?

On the other hand, thinking back to The Lodger, it’s clear that prolonged exposure to humans has given the Doctor knowledge of the mechanics of human interaction, but not being human himself, he just ‘doesn’t get it’ in a very fundamental way.  So his instincts are kinda/sorta on the right track, but his execution is ever-so-slightly wrong in our eyes.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@OsakaHatter Perfect description of “North” I reckon! Thank you

[HaveYouFedTheFish @haveyoufedthefish]

@scaryb – I thought the possibility was being left open in the viewers mind that ladyG blinded her own child deliberately to create the freak show exhibit Ada became.

If mr sweet looks phallic, I’d suggest someone needs to see a doctor about that…

[Anonymous @]

@OsakaHatter– sorry, I repeated something you said in #7842 about kissyness.

Also, hat tip to you for your fantastic description of the UK’s north-south divide, particularly these two:

“David Tennant is from so far North that it becomes a different country and actually has it’s own South.  Which is still part of the North.”

“The secret desire to move North must still exist today, because all over the South, the road signs all have directions to The North.”

[HaveYouFedTheFish @haveyoufedthefish]

@shazzbot – I must unbeknowingly having a lot of near death experiences then :-O

Anyway I didn’t say I was concerned by an amorous doc (at least – as long as he’s not in the vicinity). The opposite, in fact!

[Anonymous @]

I still have to re-watch this ep ( ! ) but I don’t think Mr Sweet looked phallic.  He was described previously, though, as a ‘slug’ but he clearly had arm-like appendages, and a faintly lobsterish tail.

And was anyone else worried that, after crawling off Mrs G and then Ada came close, that he was going to jump onto Ada?

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Kissy Dr –

With Jenny – Dr is exuberant about being released and being able to move again; he does melodrama-style sweep-her-off-her-feet type kiss (cf classic (1940s (hmmm!!)) Hollywood depictions of Victorian romance with likes of Errol Flynn, Clark Gable etc etc); Jenny slaps him, LOL. Introduces kissy Doc, with subtext to remind us re Jenny/Vastra relationship (wink from the writer/director). Also, the Dr knows about Jenny’s preferences, so we shouldn’t read too much into it, I think. So the kiss with Clara could be seen in a similar light.

I have no problem at all with a flirty Dr, I just don’t think he’s going to get sexual with someone who has a lifespan of minutes compared with him. It’s also more than understandable that the companions would see him as very desirable – he seems the very definition of the ultimate desirable male (I think Rory at one point wonders how he can possibly compete (and yet Rory ends up with his girl at the end, as Amy grows out of her crush and forms a more realistic/more equal partnership))

Maybe that’s why Clara doesn’t travel with him all the time – to keep down some of the criticism and questions about bedroom arrangements! (And obv to get feedback from her charges as well).

 

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@scaryb – re anachronisms – hmmmnnnn <borrows @chickenelly‘s pipe>

Yes, time is being subtley altered? Or, we’re in a “through the looking glass” universe sometimes. I’m going to keep coming back to that quote about two realities flickering together at infinite superspeeds from JttCotT.

I’m increasingly fascinated by the petrified “red Doctor” of this episode and metaphorical links to the Red Queen in Through the Looking Glass, to the overarching red vs blue colour schematics – hands covered in blood? The Doctor “soaked in the blood of millions” (The Pandorica Opens)?

[HaveYouFedTheFish @haveyoufedthefish]

He seems the very definition of the ultimate desirable male ..

@scaryb and the doctor, sitting in a tree K – I – S …

;-D

[Anonymous @]

@scaryb – “Maybe its [Mr Sweet’s] horror is underplayed to underline the full horror of Mrs G’s monstously unhuman behaviour.”

Also a thought I had, but hadn’t yet found a way to put it as succintly as you did.

The blinding of Ada did indeed up her freak-show component, but I also wondered whether it was necessary so Ada couldn’t inadvertantly see Mr Sweet?

[Anonymous @]

Oh oh oh!  Must get off this forum and re-watch CH, but this last thought:

Up until now, absent mothers has been a recurring theme.  In this ep, it’s an absent father.  Where’s Mr Gillyflower?  We know he didn’t blind Ada in a drunken rage, but we know nothing else about him … do we?

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@haveyoufedthefish – ah, if only 😉

[Anonymous @]

@scaryb – “Mr Sweet – Lady G sneakily feeding him some salt at the dinner table (Does he feed on the salt in her sweat?). ”

Really, I’m going now, I really am, but … it’s definitely odd that a creature identified multiple times as a ‘slug’ would have salt as nourishment.  I do like that flipping of norms in this show!

[HaveYouFedTheFish @haveyoufedthefish]

OK – based partly on the clip posted by @wolfweed – I call that Clara is Madam Kovarian, deep under cover.

Or maybe she eventually becomes Kovarian? However she’s definitely lording it over what looks suspiciously like alpha-omega soldier style monks…

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@juniperfish

I’m with you on occcasionally interlocking timestreams/pocket universes for duplicate Dr theories.

I also think crimson Dr this week introduces the concept of the Dr being incapacitated, and needing rescued. Fits with theory of the Dr not being where he/we think(s) he is – cue last 50 years of memory uploads to renew him. Doesn’t negate what’s happened since Hartnell (ie different from it was all a dream solution), but provides a clean sheet to start the next 50.

And who’s been taking the photos? (Stealing of souls…?)

[ScaryB @scaryb]

PS Anyone got any idea how the Dr managed to de-crimson himself and Clara? Is the crimsoning just a stiff shell that you can wash off? (although Clara wasn’t crimson, the process had apparently worked on her).

I like the call from someone above re Clara mirroring the Dr’s action in releasing her by throwing a chair thro her glass wall (different dimensions again? Shattering walls/illusions?)

And I loved Mrs G’s organ rotating to reveal a hidden rocket control panel – very 60s/70s concept (Who and many others) – Vincent Price also came to mind 🙂

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@Shazzbot – salt and slugs – very true. When she slipped the salt down her dress it was just after the reference to the superstition about throwing salt over your shoulder (to poison the “devil” who sits there).

[Anonymous @]

@scaryb—

I also think crimson Dr this week introduces the concept of the Dr being incapacitated, and needing rescued. 

Definitely. It certainly seems to be how Moffatt works. A concept is foregrounded in an episode or two beforehand and is then utilised in the wider arc.

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

@osakahatter

The secret desire to move North must still exist today, because all over the South, the road signs all have directions to The North.

Absolutely loved that explanation of the North-South divide! I thought “The North” stuff was well played and could serve as a useful pop at those Beeb people who have complained about the move to Salford and how ghastly it all is. 🙂

[Lula @lula]

@Bluesqueakpip —Oh, so you mean the North is the most beautiful part of the country?  Where all the exceptional music is born?  The best eating in the country?  The friendliest people?   Gotcha.  🙂

@OsakaHatter —everything wonderful about the U.S. is in the south.  I’m not biased at all.  But I also couldn’t be paid a bojillion dollars to live anywhere above or west of the Mason-Dixon line. Thanks for a succinct explanation.  I love that Diana Rigg used her northern accent in this episode.  (Meanwhile, I thought Matt Smith did a brilliant job during that one bit, even if I did have to rewind it a couple of times!  He laid it on pretty thick.)

[Anonymous @]

I shouldn’t have posted before watching a 2nd time.  Some details came through:

1.  Mr Sweet was described as a ‘leech’ not a slug.  Does salt kill leeches too?

2. @juniperfish – the new opening sequence is very red.  The space atmospherics were mostly blues in RTD’s day and I believe they were bluer before this new opening.  (And as I’ve said before, in RTD’s day the Tardis was spinning away from the viewer; now it spins toward the viewer, and opens its doors to the start of the ep.  Much more welcoming)

3. Edmund and his brother Mr Thursday [what an odd name – is there anything in the show’s history that is about Thursdays?  It has always aired on Saturdays, no?] both look like Richard E Grant.  I think this is a nod-‘n-wink to the viewer not to forget the GI.

4. The two eye pictures are definitely different – the first has the Doctor with his hands at his collar, the second was taken while Red Doctor’s manacled hands were outstretched.

5. Mrs G says ‘We only recruit the brightest’ [pats Clara’s face] ‘and the best.’  Pre-reinforces the later ‘you’re the boss’ meme.

6. Interesting point: ‘knock once for yes, twice for no’ is the saying.  Jenny asks two questions both of which ‘the monster’ responds to with one ‘OK’ knock.  Then she says ‘any funny business, I’ll leave you to rot – understood?’  To which the monster knocks twice.  She notices this, too – but still proceeds to unlock the door.

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

just watched it again and was struck by the way Mrs G talked about the coming ‘Golden dawn’. At first I thought of the Greek far right party, then about the late 19th century philosophical/occult movement/organisation. Then I thought there is a reason such phrases get reused a lot, its a very useable phrase.

@Shazzbot– it seemed pretty clear she was far more interested in Clara than the Doctor. Interestingly, a line in the America trailer for next week strongly implies that she is the boss at some point. But then, she might be bluffing someone…

And yes, I found the conversation when he was locked in that room odd. It was more as though she understood the knocks rather than a code…

[PhileasF @phileasf]

@bluesqueakpip (message #7819) – your mention of Thomas Thomas and the JttCotT time loop in the same post has set me thinking… Maybe this ties in with my thought after JttCotT that the Doctor is now in the habit of going back again and again until he gets it right. So a future Doctor — perhaps this is what he’s up to when he goes off at the end of the episode — creates a satnav that won’t seem out of place in the Victorian era (using the TARDIS’s machine that makes machines), and sends it to meet Strax and direct him to be in the right place at the right time.

If the Doctor called him Thomas Thomas, then it wouldn’t be the jarring contemporary reference that it is to some people. It’s the Doctor’s joke, not the writer’s.

Trying to figure out how this works hurts my head like timey-wimey things always do. Does it mean the Doctor experienced a version of the events where things didn’t work out well, before the version of events we saw? (It might explain the seeming discrepancy between the images in the dead man’s eye). Or was the version we saw the only version of the events, and the Doctor recognised Strax’s fortuitous presence as too good to be true, too lucky to have happened without a little nudge — so he went back in time and made it happen.

And speaking of using kids to manipulate events… Could he have sent Angie and Artie those photos (including the one of the other Clara) to see if they triggered a reaction?

[Anonymous @]

Hi @miapatrick – is it possible not to bring up spoilers (even possibly mis-directing spoilers  😉 ) from the episode threads?  I don’t watch the ‘next time’ bit at the end of each episode and from here on in to this year’s glorious finale, I want to see each new episode with competely fresh eyes.  It could just be me, but I think from other people’s comments they would also prefer to be unaware of what’s coming.

I don’t want to sound harsh, and it’s a weird line (I think of ‘Broadcast News’ and William Hurt’s character’s lament ‘they just keep moving the little sucker!’) to worry about crossing.  Especially since very few people think that trailers constitute spoilers.

It’s just that trailers can be (actually, that is  ‘almost always are’ in the case of DW) edited to encourage thinking about a future episode in a way that will be completely turned on its head once we see the actual ep.

Back to your comment — Are you intimating that Jenny has a telepathic connection to the Doctor (even tho’, at that point, she doesn’t know it’s him)?  [hmmm, strokes non-existent beard] That’s very interesting, especially since, with all the females names available, they chose Vastra’s companion’s name to be the same as the Doctor’s cloned daughter’s name.

My point was that Jenny is a true companion – where most of us flawed mortals would run from danger, avoid the locked doors, etc etc, she hears ‘a monster’ apparently say she won’t be safe when she unlocks his cage and she dives in anyway.

[PhileasF @phileasf]

Actually, now that I re-read your post, @Bluesqueakpip, I think I’ve just said what you said, but less concisely 🙂

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@Shazzbot– fair enough, sorry about that.

It could just be courageousness- reasoning that if the monster started anything, she’d just kick its arse. It seemed to me though that she was interpreting his double knock as agreement. (And its usually a good idea to sort out at the start ‘one knock for yes, two for no etc)

[feralcat @feralcat]

I  reckon Mr Thursday is a nod to GK Chesterton’s The Man who was Thursday – the hero’s love interest in that very Kafka-like story is Rose (Rosamund).

Of course Chesterton also wrote The Paradoxes of Mr Pond…

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

Just rewatching and have to say Rachel Stirling is fantastic as Ada. Part of me wants her back with her travelling with her “beautiful monster” for a while. That would really be a challenge for scriptwriters – introducing a character who is blind to the wonders of the universe. An encounter with the Weeping Angels?! Scary.

Top marks to Neve as Vastra as well. While this episode let Catrin take the forefront both in action and asking the questions about Clara, I’ve noticed on repeat viewing that in a lot of scenes Vastra just stares at Clara as if dumbstruck. Even in the lift her focus appears on Clara.

A spinoff really should happen. I think all three of them have made those characters so tangible it would be a crime not to. Keep it for a family audience, with a good balance of action and humour, playing with the period along the lines of Alan Moore’s “League of Extraordinary Gentlemen” and it could be legendary. I think I’ll rewatch “The Snowmen” next to top up my Paternoster love!

[Anonymous @]

@feralcat – wow!  Did you know that already?  ‘Cause that is amazing.  Even if not, and if it required research, that is fantastic background for S Moffat (and M Gatiss of course) creating a character called ‘Mr Thursday’.  Thank you!

[Anonymous @]

@phaseshift – I’ve commented ‘on t’sofa’ about poor Neve’s makeup requirements for a spin-off series.  And funny that you mention Ada as a possible companion, because that was my first thought too, and the challenges it would bring to the writers.

Didn’t think about the Weeping Angels myself, though.  It brings up the changes in the WA that have come throughout these last series – either you keep your eyes on them and don’t blink; or, you act like you can see them yet still don’t.

[SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe]

Hello all, another mostly lurker from the other place! Much prefer this one of course. A little thing that’s niggled me is that ‘rapture of summer/summer falls’ mention; had thought it (obviously?) meant Clara as both ‘her’ deaths have been during winter or a wintry climate. No idea about the rapture! Meeting the Lord in the air? Hmm, perhaps both were merely references to The Snowmen then.

Byron also had an illegitimate daughter with Mary Shelley’s stepsister. They christened her Clara.

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

@shazzbot

Yes – the makeup job had to be difficult. I don’t know if you ever watched “Farscape” but Virginia Hey, who played a character called Zhaan, had to be written out because her body developed an accumulated toxic reaction to her makeup (it caused Kidney problems).

I read an interview with Neve in which she said the duration of makeup work had become shorter over the time she has been in the show, which I guess she’s pretty thankful for.

When they bought back the Silurians as an offshoot species of the classic era Who a lot of people complained about the look. I was OK with it, because it lends the ability to emote a little from behind the makeup. The design team had originally pitched a much more “traditional” update. If you’ve never seen it, here it is:

I really don’t think Jenny would have been interested! 🙂

[thommck @thommck]

@phileasf I think the Tom Tom bit was just a gag & ATMOS ref but you got me thinking…

Does the Doctor still have that spoonhead he was tinkering with in BoSJ? Could he have been using this as a Doctor Double or maybe the disguised as others to try and suss out Clara?

[Anonymous @]

@SatsumaJoe – welcome to the most bonkers theories about Doctor Who, ever!  Love the lateral thinking on Clara.  And the climates of her deaths.  Is the ‘fall of the 11th’ going to be seasonally-related?  We’ve had many discussions on the definition of ‘fall’.

@phaseshift – it’s all about the tongue action, though … 🙂

[Omega @omega]

Maybe if Clara is shown other pictures of her other self’s, like the Victorian London one then maybe she may remember what the Doctor said to her in the Journey to the center of the TARDIS about her other selfs and then remember the Doctors name.

[Anonymous @]

@timeloop – I, too, had to re-watch to pick up important details.  Yours are so much more interesting than mine, though – good’on ye!

“How exactly does the steam help Clara and the Doctor??”
— yes indeedy, how did that steam cupboard reverse ‘the process’?  The green light for the Doctor appeared to be from the sonic but Clara had no such help in her ‘de-steaming’.  And what the heck was that steam cupboard, anyway?  I fear it’s lost in 45-minute episode timing issues.

What effect could the “preservation process” have for Clara? Long-term and all?
— massively good point.  Have been wondering that myself.  She was shell-shocked on her exit from the steam cupboard but very quickly regained her wits.  Seeing as how ‘the process’ didn’t work on the Doctor because he’s not human, was it really that easy to reverse ‘the process’ – which had gone full tilt – on a human?

Absolutely loved the strax being treated as a child “did you eat…” “noooo…?” he even mumbles when he leaves the room
— I really, really hope that the Paternoster Square Gang are being set up for a spin-off series (Neve’s makeup issues beside).  Strax is clearly being set up for the wayward child role, which as a Sontaran must rankle even more than being assigned the ‘nurse’ role.

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