Space Babies

[Craig @craig Emperor]

Ruby learns the Doctor’s amazing secrets when he takes her to the far future. There, they find a baby farm run by babies. But can they be saved from the terrifying bogeyman?

This opening episode of the new series is written by Russell T Davies, of course. It is directed by Julie Anne Robinson.

Robinson has directed episodes of Grey’s Anatomy, Bridgerton, Masters of Sex, Nurse Jackie, Orange is the New Black, Grace and Frankie, Castle Rock, Parks and Recreation, The Good Place and Selfie. She has directed twelve network television pilots in the United States, seven of which have gone to series. She also developed and executive produced The Catch, with Shonda Rhimes, and has directed two features, One for the Money (2012) and The Last Song (2010).

[WhoHar @whohar]

Absolutely dreadful.

Budget up, script down it seems.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

Welcome to Checkov’s Fluffy Armory.

It seems churlish to say ‘on the whole I enjoyed it.’ It was GREAT. Maybe some reveals were a little obvious. The scene setting didn’t take long but… there it was…

And NO! Raise your crucifix (other sacred and/or humanistic protective symbols are available) against the spectacle of Whotinuity. Nope. Nothing to worry about.

But what else did Russ stuff in our stockings?

Ray Bradbury ‘The Sound of Thunder’ we knew was coming.

Bang straight in there with the impending Fall of the West. Court-driven pro-life/pro-choice shenanigans meshed nicely with immigration non debate (give us your cheap labour for all those jobs you are never going to pay people enough to do.) What did you do in the culture wars, daddy?

Then Earthsearch via Wall-E.

And Doggo must have its origin’s in Lister’s Vindaloo monster from Red Dwarf.

Lastly, the demise of Clone Ripley’s ‘alienated’ baby in Alien Resurrection.

Kid fic? Tooth-rotting perhaps but no trouble. Check. Next up the much reviled song fic. Russ is on a fanfic roll! Expecting Shipping, Slash, Crack and Major Character Death!

The big scan at the end? Need to recheck that on high res. Last seen when 11 examined Amy’s baby-bump, the result being River, who apparently was human but got exposed to The Vortex when her DNA was still a bit malleable.

Yeah… I’m sure Desmond Morris would have had something to say about detached earlobes and all that! Does that mean Vashtra was covering up for someone? That Rory was a bit gullible? Or maybe he knew and was just a very nice bloke.

 

[WhoHar @whohar]

<span class=”useratname”>@ps1l0v3y0u</span>

Horses for courses and all that, and I’m glad you liked it.

I thought, genuinely, it was one of the worst DW eps I’ve seen.

No plot, no structure, exposition heavy dialogue, no tension, with some in your face social commentary thrown over the top. And that’s before we get to the premise, the creepy babies, the lack of any kind of sense in the plot, and, I hate to be THAT guy, the disregard for basic physics in service of the (let’s call it a) story.

Seemed like a first draft written by an enthusiastic amateur.

A mess in other words.

Since the show rebooted, I’ve enjoyed 1 / 5 eps (WBY, if you’re interested). And that’s about the rating I’d give this ep. And that’s me being generous.

At this rate, I will stop watching in the same way I did with the D+ Star Wars and Marvel offerings.

DW D+. Seems about right.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@whohar

Call me Mr Brightside.

Not saying Babies was better than B+, if that. IMHO.

There was indeed catch up expo. Expo wasn’t wasted on giving away the whole backstory, clumsily and vindictively because, “who’s the showrunner now, Father Steven Moffat?? Next section: people who don’t like Crime Dramas. I got awards for my Crime Drama, did you know that?” That’s NOT Russ speaking btw. And if you hadn’t noticed, I’m a Ted fan.

Anyway, I thought the expo was swept away quickly enough. Was it necessary? Presumably there are people out there who need it.

Is the age bar being set a bit too low. I reserve judgment.

A lot of the baby speak was babyspeak. Kidfic is tooth-rotting. Some people may not want to see it. Perhaps Russ is rubbing our noses in it again. ‘Sorry guys this is the way it has to be.’

Or, yes, you could say that aspect was unimaginative. My reaction on seeing a flight deck full of small emotionally undeveloped people in automated strollers was “ahhh! Daleks!” Give them flame throwers and maybe some unfortunately direct imperatives and The Doctor might well look askance. Then Ruby could tell him off because they’re “cute lil babies…” and all that.

There could have been more misdirection. We knew what Doggo was. We knew what had just slimed Ruby.

As it was, the dialogue would have to be a bit limited. I suspect there was an element of wasted opportunity, here. But we’re not talking about Saward, or Pip and Jane, or Zchib ‘bad’ are we?

I like nods to classic sci-fi and space opera. It beats the show reworking it’s own original ideas which is really a bit lazy.

I would have appreciated The Doctor actually doing some science when he made the space station ‘break wind.’ Plugging his sonic SSD into the nearest console is all very well but I think he really might really need to work on some kind of adjustable blast nozzles and a burn system or all you’d do is change the station’s spin rate. But you wouldn’t have the CGI brown cloud. Toilet humor will get you anywhere!

 

 

[WhoHar @whohar]

@ps1l0v3y0u

Ask yourself this: if Saward or Chibnall had written this, would your view be any different?

DW has always ripped stuff off and given it its own twist. And that’s OK. But to say that ep didn’t rework its own ideas is just incorrect. It’s a wholesale rip off of Amy’s story, down to the TARDIS body scan. Maybe it will play out differently but so far it is rehashing old ideas.

 

 

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@whohar

Chibnall would have made it into a baby soap opera. ‘What’s going on? No, you don’t know what he’s done! I’m divorcing you Eric!’ And it would be a two parter at least.

Saward… the babies drink blood and everyone but Ruby and Doc die in the end. Maybe Ruby too.

Pip and Jane? Well a lot of people want to see The Rani again. She got a mention!

Are any of those scenarios worse? Yes. The Rani especially. And they’d be done abysmally. Whereas bits of ‘Babies’ were just a bit slight and undercooked. Another layer needed. Bit of a waste.

Amy scan? That’s thirteen years ago. Not like Demons rehashing Testimony (which itself rehashed The Tesselector). I’m intrigued. Biggest clue going forward… combine the snowflakes and the butterfly and yes that might drive an arc

[WhoHar @whohar]

@ps1l0v3y0u

Are any of those scenarios worse?

Well I don’t know. But the fact that you are not holding this ep up in comparison to say, Blink, or Genesis, or The Daemons speaks volumes.  I’d love this reboot to work, I really would

After the thin gruel from Chibnall, its tempting to assume anything is better. Clearly not. And I day that as someone who thinks Chibnall’s Who was witless, charmless and senseless.

There’s always been an element of “getting the band back together” vibes about this reboot. And it’s never as good. Never. But to see this travesty, we’ll I am shocked. No not shocked, saddened. It’s garbage.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Treating it as the first ep of a new season and a new era, I thought it was a bit lightweight but enjoyable, and did what it had to do in terms of exposition for a new audience.

On the negative side I thought the CGI for the snot-monster was very poor, but on the plus side Ncuti is amazing! He completely owns the part, energetic, charismatic with just enough hints of the dark side, and his chemistry with Ruby is great too.

No problem with the foundling/orphans theme, but hopefully we are now done with babies tho, and RTD’s got his fart jokes out of the way for this season 😀

Continuity things – if the TARDIS has a Butterfly Effect button – why didn’t 14 use it when they met Isaac Newton (Mavity?)? The Doctor’s flashback to the night he rescued baby Ruby – the change in the figure who left her – who’s now doing a great Jacob Marley impersonation – is that an indication that things have changed (or someone’s mucking about with the timelines)?

And snow in the TARDIS? (Was there not something before about someone thinking something was snow and it ended up being ashes? Anyone remember?)

[janetteB @janetteb]

Hi @scaryb Nice to hear from you..and @whohar too.

I am totally not supposed to be here because I have yet to watch the episode. (I like spoilers)We are planning to watch tomorrow.

The snow incident you refer to is at the end of Christmas Invasion. In the following Christmas Special or at last a later one the Doctor sonics fake snow saying one day there really will be snow.

Cheers

Janette

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@scaryb @janetteb @whohar

the snow reminded me of Lavender Brown making it snow on Ron Weasley. Generally the early RTD snow was bits of spaceship or the contents of ballast tanks.

I didn’t want to be first up and say ‘ai carumba! I think Itchy and Scratchy has lost their edge.’ But I’m afraid we are in a new warm and fluffy age. The back of the sofa is now out of bounds and Z neutrinos are prohibited. It was not Blink. It wasn’t Robots of Death. It wasn’t even Love and Monsters. But it didn’t make me switch off half way through thinking, ‘I’ll come back and watch the rest when I’m drunk’ (aka the Zchib test).

There were ideas present. He def missed a trick by not spotting babies = daleks. But as I say the babies may be meta. ‘I’m gonna tell ya how it’s gonna be. You’re gonna give ya streaming cash to me…’ (don’t lose the sale)

 

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Hi @janetteb

The Christmas Invasion – thank you.

Hope all’s well with you and your fam down under. Great that you all still watch together.

@ps1l0v3y0u

 it didn’t make me switch off half way through thinking, ‘I’ll come back and watch the rest when I’m drunk’

Ha!! I suspect/hope the warm fluffiness is just to lure us (especially the newbies (newhobies?!) in. All ages have to end, change is endemic and the salt doesn’t work against the bad guys any more.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Well, decided I had to sleep on it before commenting. Why? Mostly, because the cuteness factor was ramped up to max (and beyond).

So, in the cold light of day…I am still overwhelmed by the sheer overload of cuteness. One of the questions I ask myself is: who is the audience that RTD is writing for? Well, American, of course. Beyond that, what kind of American? Kristi Noem? I suspect not. Then who? I’m really not sure.

Clearly, it was a introductory exposition episode: witness the rapid fire history the Doctor give to Ruby about himself. But back in the days of BBC Who it was expected that those discovering the Doctor for the first time would find out about previous incarnations themselves. Or if it was done (as in The Lodger) it was done almost in the form of a lark.

What did I enjoy about the episode? Probably the origin of the monster was the one time I found myself actually laugh. But the rest…?

For the moment, I think I shall regard it as the snot episode.

 

[JimTheFish @jimthefish Time Lord]

hello all. Good to be back.

I didn’t mind this tbh. Pretty much 2nd tier RTD but with him mining quite a lot from the Moffatt era. Elements of Oxygen and Sleep No More and maybe even a hint of The Beast Below and it does look like we might be getting a re-run of Amy’s phantom pregnancy storyline — although that’s maybe what we’re supposed to think. So, fluffy and a bit silly but Ncuti is great already and Ruby for the moment feels like a hybrid of Rose and Amy (which even seems echoed in her name).

But season (and especially era) openers are strange creatures and while it’s no Eleventh Hour or Deep Breath, I’d probably still rate it over New Earth or Smith and Jones. Certainly it’s miles above RTD-era travesties like Love and Monsters or The Idiot’s Lantern. And in some ways, I suspect it’ll age better than those stories because I think it can and will be read as a playful parody of the space station sub-genre of the base-under-siege Who trope.

I’m not sure I could handle a whole series at this timbre but as a statement of intent that we are embarking on an era that has a far greater emphasis on Fun I think it worked fine. And I’m willing to bet right now that the series finale will see us standing in the snow outside that church in Ruby Road.

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

Hmmm, wasn’t too bad an episode seen worse but at the moment I’m not sure Ncuti is  creating the Doctors gravitas. It actually felt more like a mid season filler fluff episode. I hope this isn’t  a result of the Disney  partnership. Will probably need a rewatch to firm up my opinions to be honest it’s just doesn’t feel a classic who episode.

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

So we begin with a literal butterfly effect… Ruby steps on a Red Admiral in the Jurassic and the timey wimey ripple effect transforms her into an alien, one who somewhat resembles a Star Trek Andorian crossed with Bjork.

We already know, from the “mavity” incident, that the butterfly effect is going to be an RTD2 Series 14 theme. And RTD2 has many fine qualities, but subtlety is not one of them.

Honestly, the space babies and their bodily fluids humour (the snot and the nappy methane the Doctor used to fly the station) made me cringe so hard I nearly fell down the back of the sofa. I had a similar reaction to RTD1’s farting Slitheen.

Luckily, Gatwa and Gibson’s acting was top-notch and carried me through the absurdity.

Did I mention subtlety is not RTD’s thing? But that’s OK, as he has other fine qualities which he brings to writing Who; passionate humanism, egalitarianism and an abiding faith in the power of love. His dig at the pro-life lobby who insist babies must be born but then won’t look after, them raised a smile from me, as did his passionate defence of refugees and the kind of planets and places which do welcome them. Coming from a Doctor played by a Rwandan refugee to the UK, that’s moving and meaningful, particularly in the currently vile “anti-migrant” “stop the boats” rhetorical political landscape Britain is engulfed in. I am a huge fan of RTD’s full-chest Doctor Woke.

The theme of fairy tales entering the universe and becoming materially manifest, evident already with the goblins at Christmas, continues, with the baby-farm space station’s created-for-children monster in the basement. I love this theme for Gatwa era Who – the liminal space between reality and imagination.

And this altered reality in which imagination manifests materially was also clearly present in the falling snow which emerged onto the space station from the Doctor’s memories of Ruby’s birth.

RTD2 seems to be “doing a Moffat” in making Ruby a mysterious girl/ entity/ puzzle whom the Doctor must figure out. Whilst I thoroughly enjoyed River as the Time Traveller’s Wife mystery that she was, I was less enamoured of Clara’s “impossible girl” and I am now decidely over any more woman as the “dark continent” Freudian stuff in my Who.

However, because the Doctor and Ruby are now both mysterious orphans whose genetic parents are unknown, and their bond is clearly partly forged by a shared sense of personal displacement, I’ll allow it.

 

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@jimthefish

I was put in mind of Oxygen too, and The Almost People – where people are expendible, and profit is priority.

@juniperfish

I am a huge fan of RTD’s full-chest Doctor Woke.

I read in an interview with RTD (around the time of It’s A Sin) that he’d got to a point in life and career where he doesn’t intend to pull his punches. Fart jokes aside this is a more confident, experienced and bolshy writer than in 2005. (But yes, hoping we’re not going down an Impossible Girl route again. Mysterious I can live with (Got my snowboots looked out for JimTheFish’s predicted finale!)).

I’m also a huge fan of the fishes in this Forum!

[penguindog @penguindog]

I found it interesting how much of the “up to speed” moments were blazed through this time around. That moment where they are staring out into space and Ruby wants to call her mum is basically a retelling of The End Of The World.

That being said, aside from a few funny moments and the Doctor’s realization at the end, I didn’t find it to be a particularly strong episode and I much prefered The Devil’s Chord, the whole baby thing wasn’t doing it for me.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Re-watch. Second time around: it’s strengths (for me, any way) were both the main actors.  They were simultaneously both over the top and grounded, and swept you along (as they did in “The Church on Ruby Road”). Did RTD sweep me along? Yes in terms of the energy, but I really hope this is the last time we have to spend extended time with babies.

This viewing made me wonder if his point about everyone being unique and therefore of importance (the egalitarian point) blended with the final moments where the Doctor scans her DNA and also  his (now new) memory of confronting her mother (?) outside the church.  Does this mean she is “special” (the definitely not egalitarian point)?

I suppose we will find out.

 

 

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

Hello everyone!

so… I don’t know.

I came in with moderate expectations, remembering I wasn’t all that obsessed with Doctor Who under RTD the first time. On the other hand, I really liked the anniversary episodes and the Christmas episodes, much more than his original ones. So what about this?

It doesn’t help that I don’t find babies particularly appealing. But, to be fair, had they turned up on a space station being bravely run by a pack of puppies all trying to be good girls and boy’s, I’d have been all over it. I’m that pathetic. The comment on abortion rights, given the situation in the US was on point. And refugees. Some people say it ought to be more subtle, but when people are so determined to miss the political messaging of older sci-fi shows, I’d say, maybe the shovel is warranted.

I liked the Butterly effect part. And the saving of the monster. I found space babies underwhelming, I thought the episode dragged. I thought it would turn out the babies were Daleks for a moment there, spinning around in their chairs. The Doctor realising he’s been cuddling Daleks….

I like the fact there’s a bigger story, I’m concerned that it might be another impossible girl. Or maybe a kind of reverse Bad Wolf? Or maybe it turns out Ruby is a whatever the Doctor is? Maybe they don’t all have two hearts? I wonder what’s wrong about her. I’m interested in that but I’m not – loving it the way I loved Moffart Who. So right now I’m slightly preferring Chib’s Who as a less good version doing similar things, while here we’re back to fart jokes…

I love Gatwa’s Doctor, though. I’m intrigued that clearly 10 has done a lot of work to deal with his pain – but this doctor, he cries. He cries and he smiles. He get’s scared, but he’s so physically protective. I’m defiantly going to stick around for the character. What was he going to say about his name?

[Mudlark @mudlark]

This was by no means as dire an episode as @whohar led me to expect – far from it – and my opinion of it improved on second viewing.  Compared with The Eleventh Hour or Rose, it was a lightweight introduction to a new season, but they set a high standard.  What carried it and raised it above average, though, were Nguti’s Doctor and Millie Gibson as Ruby.  The  talking babies were technically effective, so I’m not sure why I found them slightly creepy and not totally convincing, but that said, the child who played Poppy was a real charmer.  The allusions to the politics of the ‘pro-life’ brigade (every sperm is sacred and we’ll protect you from conception to birth, but after that you’re on your own, Kiddo) and cockeyed policies regarding refugees and asylum seekers may have been a bit obvious, but not a problem as far as I am concerned

As is often the case with RTD, the ideas were not quite fully developed, and my inner nit-picker kept nagging at me: why had the babies failed to develop physically past the age they were when they were abandoned ? – if this was explained I missed it; and how come they felt the absence of mother and father when, in all but genetic terms, they had no parents?  It is plausible that a massive ejection of gas could propel a space station in a given direction – action and reaction and all that – but how were they proposing to slow it down and guide it into orbit once they had reached the destination planet? But that’s just the way my mind works. As for the snot monster, it was suitably  scary, and yes, the link between bogeyman/monster*, and bogey/dried snot occurred to the mind of my inner child before it dawned on the Doctor, but did RTD really have to go there? Compare the wit in so many of Moffatt’s scripts.

So far, so good.

* The term ‘bogeyman’ probably derives from a middle English word bogge or bugge, meaning scary apparition – see also the Yorkshire dialect Boggart. Whether or not there is a direct connection with bogey/dried snot, or the USA English booger, I have no idea.

[VickyMallard @vickymallard]

I admit I haven’t been here for a while, and am still in the process of adapting to “other” Doctors. Ncuti and Millie are doing a great job and I’m sure I will adjust to their style soon. At times, it felt a bit too hyperactive for my taste, and reminded me of a character in a different show that I don’t like. And I guess Ten was just as hyperactive as Fifteen at times, so I better get used to it.
I liked the opening bit, it was a good way to introduce new viewers to who the Doctor is and other basics. So first they went to see the dinasours – very Jurassic Park – and I smiled when Ruby asked about stepping on a butterfly, because Martha asked the same thing many seasons ago (I don’t know yet how many other companions have enquired about it?). And then she actually does step on one and turns into whatever alien creature prehistoric butterflies are made of. I wonder if these kind of “minisodes” will become a regular feature? I mean this brief visit to history before the actual story begins, as in WBY with Isaac Newton and the mavity of the situation. Maybe it all feeds into a larger scheme later. (Or RTD just had script pages to fill. Or both.)

The Space Babies were kind of strange, and I was basically waiting for them to turn evil, or being just a diguise for the bad guys. Same as the Nanny – I was halfway expecting here to be in league with the bogeyman! It was a bit confusing seeing the Doctor run away like that, and after the Church on Ruby Road had already heavily featured babies I could have done with a different emphasis this time. But I’m sure we’ll get there.

I liked the “Nanny Filter”, and I also liked that the Doctor managed to save the Bogeyman. Because it’s not like the Doctor to watch one-of-a-kind species die, at least as far as I can tell with my rather limited expertise. However, how does that creature continue? He now lives happily in the airlock howling to scare the kids when needed? What fate does it face when they all seek refuge at that planet below? Oh, but I liked the Star Trek-like uniforms of the crew when they signed off. And the not-so-subtle hint about the refugee situation.
That whole bit with the “we’re propelling the station with six years of nappy-generated methane” was somewhat ridiculous, though. And I guess I better don’t think about babies growing up with no human interaction. That doesn’t bring my headspace in the right direction. It all felt a bit weird and very Disney-ish, but I guess that was partly due to the fact that it took place on a toddler-inhabited space station. And plenty of “baby language”.

So, what do I think of it… not entirely sure yet. I could relate to it more than to the singing goblins from last time, so I’m confident they’ll all grow on me. And next time it seems there won’t be any babies!
Now I’m better off to bed… good night everyone.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@Miaparick

had they turned up on a space station being bravely run by a pack of puppies all trying to be good girls and boy’s, I’d have been all over it.

Haha. Don’t be giving RTD ideas – he’ll be doing a version with Karvanista’s offspring 😉

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@mudlark

Re the babies not developing physically, I think that was explained but I need to go back to pick up on it exactly. They grew mentally but more slowly physically

[janetteB @janetteb]

@mudlark Agree the babies were creepy. I don’t think the cgi on the faces worked. I would have preferred if they talked a kind of baby language that only the Doctor could understand, given he speaks baby. I didn’t hate the bogeyman as much as I thought I would.

@vickymallard. Bill also panicked about stepping on butterflies so that was a nice touch I thought. I also liked the beginning. The interaction between the Doctor and Ruby really carries the episode. (Makes up for those plot holes pointed out by Mudlark)

cheers

Janette

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@scaryb that would be OK by me…

[Charlie Cook @cookgroom]

Sorry, too much toilet humour, and not enough story.

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

Another thought about this episode that actually makes me like it a bit more – the almost killing of the snot monster.

The space babies are on the whole, more so if you like that kind of thing, sweet, affectionate, don’t cry all that much, make intelligible sense, are clever, brave, are maybe something close to a platonic ideal of a baby that don’t really require all that much hands on care. The monster on the other hand, is disgusting, snotty, hostile, terrifying, everything you might dread, a PPD nightmare. And this one woman, along on the ship caring for all these babies, terrified of seeing them die, running out of resources, her trying – and her failing – to kill the snot monster actually makes a lot of thematic sense.

I’m still not a huge fan of the episode, but taken on the level of discourse on reproduction rights, refugees, and, maybe, parenthood, its definitely got something.

 

I think I just get the feeling with both these episodes of a very truncated final draft of a very interesting, much longer first draft of a story. But I don’t think either of these exactly warrant a two-parter. Or alternatively, an exciting brainstorm of ideas woven together – not quite successfully – into a narrative.

[penguindog @penguindog]

 

too much toilet humour, and not enough story.

i don’t know.. there was so much story that it felt like it was moving at breakneck speed and I didn’t get any time to process any of it, especially with the lore dumping going on. Far too much toilet humour though, I agree.

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@scaryb

I’m also a huge fan of the fishes in this Forum!

Awww, right back at ya, Scary.

@miapatrick

Yes to your point about the episode’s commentary on reproductive rights, parenting and refugee rights. And all perfectly in keeping with Doctor Who’s long tradition of being political science fiction, from the Daleks-as-Nazis-metaphor to the consideration of religion as a regressive force opposed to collaborative politics in The Curse of Peladon, to the unethical biological experiments of the Cat Nuns in New Earth, to name-check a few of many, many examples over sixty years.

(Indeed, I still can’t get over the audacity and brilliance of RTD1 in making The Doctor, our lovely Doctor, responsible for the genocide of his own people [as far as we, and he knew until The Day of the Doctor] at the start of Nu Who, so the audience could queasily contemplate whether genocide was ever, ever, justified).

But reproductive rights/ parenting and refugee rights are both such big issues, and I think Space Babies suffered from trying to cover both in one opening swoop. I supposed RTD2 tied them together because they are both directly relevant to this incarnation of the Doctor, who is, we know now, an abandoned (or refugee?) baby adopted by Gallifreyans (sadly, by an abusive adoptive Gallifreyan mother). And then on the meta level, whereby Gatwa is himself a baby refugee, whose parents arrived in Scotland from Rwanda, fleeing the genocide there, when he was only two years’ old.

I think there was also something meta going on in terms of the snot-monster. I wonder if Disney was a bit queasy, in negotiations, about the long Doctor Who tradition of monsters so scary that kids had to hide behind the sofa. So RTD2 opened with a story about how monsters are actually essential to child development (as Nan-I knew) because they develop the imagination and help children experience fear and overcoming it.

The ideas were there in Space Babies but the execution just felt… clumsy.

@mudlark – love your scientist’s brain wondering how the baby-methane propelled space station was going to be successfully decelerated into orbit at the refugee-welcoming planet!

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@juniperfish @mudlark

re guff powered spaceships, I still maintain the issue is the initial burn, otherwise you’ll just spin gently. Once you’re there, it’s parabola (oops missed) or ellipse (orbit). A new burn may be required but by then more methane fuel will have been ‘manufactured’.

The problem at DuPlushie World or wherever might be the extradition deal they’ve struck with Skaro!

The bit with Doggo in the airlock was of course a nod to Alien Resurrection. You knew that.

 

[Mudlark @mudlark]

@scaryb

Re the babies not developing physically, I think that was explained but I need to go back to pick up on it exactly.

The transcript of the episode is now up so I have just checked. The nearest thing to an explanation is the Doctor saying, ‘The crew went home. They abandoned ship and left you guys behind. I don’t know why, but they left the birth machine running, so you lot grew up but stayed the same size’. 

This suggests that that the lack of physical development is connected to the abandonment of the station, but the how and why is not explained. Perhaps we were supposed to assume that growth was stunted by some artificial means  because space was limited but if so one would expect them to be diminutive six year olds, not still babies who needed to wear nappies.

I guess RTD just thought ‘talking babies running a space station would be a cute idea for an episode’, and wasn’t bothered about the rationale.

[janetteB @janetteb]

@mudlark

I guess RTD just thought ‘talking babies running a space station would be a cute idea for an episode’, and wasn’t bothered about the rationale

I am afraid that is probably correct. It is something that always annoys me. A throwaway line is not enough. One has to at least work out how a plot device is possible even if that doesn’t fully make it into the script. If the writer can justify it the reader/viewer should be able to do so too. I have a very critical son who questions every story idea i run past him. and has led to many re-writes. It is a useful process as a writer and one I often suspect that Doctor Who script writers do not subject themselves too. I need to send them Patrick. (who incidentally hated these two episodes because of plot holes.) I am hoping that the next episode will restore his faith.

Cheers

Janette.

[Mudlark @mudlark]

@scaryb

Having just reread the whole thread I realise that I had overlooked your comment about the poor CGI rendering of the snot monster. In the ‘Doctor Who Unleashed’ feature on the episode, which I have now watched, it showed how it was done, and it wasn’t CGI at all, just the traditional man in a costume covered with layer upon layer of gunk and slime. If there was any CGI involved at all it may have been in the effect of the slime streaming off the monster as they tried to blast it out of the airlock.*  We have become so accustomed to the increasing realism of good CGI that old fashioned people in rubber suits are no longer enough for the suspension of disbelief, alas.

* In reality, once the outer hatch of the airlock opened the decompression would surely have been pretty much instantaneous and the poor monster would have had no chance of hanging on; it would have been blasted out in the manner of the Alien in the first film. But in this case of course it had to be saved.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@whohar

Is RTD going to fix it in the arc? Logically, if Du Plushie world doesn’t accept immigrants, maybe the babies do get shipped to Skaro! The pay off could be the toclafane in Dalek form.

All in the worst possible taste.

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@ps1l0v3y0u They’d take to controlling the metal caseings really well…

 

I’m envisioning Dalek’s advancing, spinning slightly, towards someone electronically demanding CUD-DLE-ME! They could be the most terrifying iteration of the species yet.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@miapatrick

It’s happened before. Evil of The Daleks, doc 2, 1967. The Daleks get imbued with ‘the human factor’, start questioning orders and become very childlike.

‘Why?’

’Dizzy Daleks.’

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@ps1l0v3y0u OK that almost makes it seem possible, if we’re getting call backs to old stuff…

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@miapatrick

Evil of the Daleks was supposed to be Terry Nation’s last Dalek story before he found an American buyer for the pepperpots.

How meta can you go?

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@miapatrick

Evil of the Daleks was supposed to be Terry Nation’s last Dalek story before he found an American buyer for the pepperpots.

How meta can you go?

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