The Ghost Monument

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    idiotsavon @idiotsavon

    @shinymcshine Just my tuppence-worth…

    I’ve been against changes in Doctor Who so many times before, I think I can identify with you a bit 🙂

    I remember when the DW reboot was being advertised on BBC. The adverts were all CGI graphics and big music. It was a million miles away from the Doctor Who of my childhood. And Billie Piper (as far as I was concerned at the time) was “just a pop star” recruited to seduce the “yoof” and guarantee viewing figures.

    I watched a bit of the first episode and decided Doctor Who had lost its soul and was no longer for me.

    I only got back into it part-way through David Tennant’s run… And blimey, I really got into it… I realised Billie Piper was a great actress, and the show may have moved on from bubble wrap and papier maché, but that never meant it lost its heart.

    I went back and watched all the reboot from Rose on, and realised I’d been missing out.

    But then along came Matt Smith and this new writer Moffatt, and two new companions I didn’t immediately like, and it wasn’t Doctor Who any more. (Again.)
    But the more I watched, the more I enjoyed. And when the Clara intrigue came along, I was really gripped. (I discovered this fab forum during a massive Clara-based Google session.)

    When Matt Smith left, I really missed him, and wasn’t comfortable with Capaldi. Fast forward to the final Capaldi ep and I was crying and snotting all over the shop.

    I think by this point, I’ve decided that every time a new writer and/or new Doctor comes along, it really pays to sit tight and give it a chance. That’s been my experience anyway.

    I do like some of your creative suggestions, but at the same time I think maybe don’t write off Chibnall’s run so soon.


    syzygy @thane16


    Well, dear, I did call bullshit on the other thread. And I thought you said you were leaving? 🙂

    @juniperfish “interrogate the whatsit.”

    Are we post-modern again?

    *just kidding*  all’s good.


    You’re the one I like.

    This is hilarious. I’ve seen the episode once. Everything is upside down.

    Puro with drips.

    syzygy @thane16


    And when the Clara intrigue came along, I was really gripped. (I discovered this fab forum during a massive Clara-based Google session..

    WHERE have you  BEEN?

    OK that works better in an actual story format. What I’m saying is, thank you for that gold (it wasn’t just a tuppence).  I also did a mad google search and fell from the sky (not because I’m God) into the laps of the Forum.

    Laps. That’s more my thing. And I was snotting with the best.




    So long Dr. Who, I already miss you so much.

    Oh dear Lord.

    Post “corrective” fanfic: CHECK

    Suggest writer (whose steepedness in relation to Who is as impeccable as it can be) is insufficiently familiar with Dr Who : CHECK

    Accuse writer of selling out: “CHECK”

    Deny calling writer a hack, when writing to a brief for money (that would be the selling bit) is the exact definition of a hack (an actual hack writes): CHECK

    Some of the best writers in history were hacks. Hack is high praise because being one is really fucking hard work.

    Chibnall is a flawed writer and has done some things I am hugely critical of (search here for my comments on Broadchurch 2), but as the Romans knew, only the Gods are perfect.

    But he isn’t in any way a sell-out, and suggesting otherwise says a lot more about you than him, or Doctor Who.

    idiotsavon @idiotsavon

    @thane16 /puro.

    Ha ha. I still regret wearing a dry-clean-only top for the snotfest 🙂

    It’s such a massive change – writer, composer, companions, Doctor, gender … All new.

    It would be weird not to feel weird about one/some/all of the new things.

    I’m looking forward to seeing how it all evolves, and quite confident I’ll settle in and end up loving it and snotting on my clothes again when the time comes for JW to regenerate.


    Arbutus @arbutus

    @thane16     As I read your post, I was hearing an expressionist aria for soprano, with piano accompaniment, vaguely Berg-like, with the lyric: If we are not calm, the pitch isn’t low. If a cause always leads to an effect then absence of that effect is evidence of absence of the cause.

    syzygy @thane16


    but do you like Alban Berg?   😀     I do myself and I particularly like Cantos which use statements like the one above -Handel was my original inspiration…..

    Good to hear from you… I shall pop to PMs. I somehow missed some messages (blame the drugs. Everyone else does and they’re right!)

    Puro xx

    Arbutus @arbutus

    @shinymcshine<span class=”Apple-converted-space”>    </span>It appears that the franchise considers Dr. Who to be for prepubescents now.  Well, as someone well on in my fifties, I still enjoyed these first two episodes. We’ll see where they lead. In the end though, I’m still willing to fork out for an iTunes subscription, which is not true for anything else on TV these days.

    @ichabod<span class=”Apple-converted-space”>    </span>In general, I find that expectations are great killers of joy and satisfaction, and so best avoided where possible.  As the millennials say, this is a very good take. 🙂

    @idiotsavon   You are all of us. I also gave Series 1 a go, and enjoyed it, while feeling not quite sure that it was really DW. In my case, I stopped watching due to a kindergarten-age son and lack of time. By the time I got back to it, through iTunes, it was already Matt Smith’s era. I went back, binge-watched them all, and started lurking in the Guardian comment section and then lurking on the Forum, until an epic post of @bluesqueakpip’s after the 50th Anniversary special forced me to come aboard just so I could express my admiration!  🙂

    Arbutus @arbutus

    Argh. Sorry about the weird brackety things. I cut and paste my posts, and I can usually catch the spaces that don’t translate properly. However, I’ve found lately that trying to edit just causes whole posts to vanish, so I’m leaving them in this time.

    Arbutus @arbutus

    @thane16     Well, there you go, then.  🙂  I won’t let myself veer wildly off-topic, but briefly say that I do like Berg, with some reservations.

    Hm, I wonder what music the Whittaker Doctor likes?

    Whisht @whisht

    apologies for only posting now.
    Its been a great thread to read through and I’ve nothing particularly to add except….

    Yay – a quarry!!

    That and that we now have a Sonic Swiss-Army-Spoon !

    In terms of Whittaker Doctor (yes – am conscious of how I refer to her!) I’m still interested to see how she evolves in the role. But I’m still picking up bits in the script that jar a little but I’m nit picking (in this episode I didn’t like her threat to Malik’s character).

    Anyway – off to the music thread for something silly.

    syzygy @thane16

    @whisht Hooray! Music. Silly? Never! 😀   For instance…..Dr Berg…( I need a  re-watch of that bit with Malik -it was hard to hear but there was an odd …..feel too).


    exactly, I enjoy Berg -with reservations. At restaurants and bars. Although the fare at the local Mater Mirage is somewhat less varied it has its upsides.  Lots of condiment packets? It’s the European in me. The whole fridge is condiments for Puro. So PC liked Beethoven and various Doctors would’ve met a number of musicians and composers since 1963. Debussy, Stevie Wonder. That’s like meeting god. Which he did too. Then there was cooking school…(omelettes and reservations). So JW’s choice/preference could be a Sheffield rock band. One springs to mind (mind the pun).


    bendubz11 @bendubz11

    @lisa That’s a good point about the SJA vibe. Definitely getting it now you mention it.

    Though it does come with the downside of making me irrationally mad that Luke has never become a companion. Especially considering how perfectly he’d have fit CapDoc. (Just an aside, with regards to how to refer to JW’s Doctor, WhitDoc feels right to me, it rolls off the tongue nicely)

    syzygy @thane16

    at approx. 45:49 Director slams the close up when the Doctor says,
    “do you wanna try?”  (fitting in TARDIS).

    So much to love about this. sladders and lakes

    Dooley’s character (brilliantly acted) saying “you’re irrelevant” and “I love my mum.”

    I think when Lynch popped up with “I scooped you!” I fell for her. Ensemble Class: or cast. 🙂

    Quite Firefly-ish; hint of Hunger Games and obviously Bad Wolf: “you are the weakest link.” Also Mad Max.

    I really think JW is a very different Doctor to the others. There’s an absolute lack of mystery. She thinks, she says, she acts. Other Doctors simply don’t outline what they’re doing all the time. I like this new aspect.

    I like her upbeat quality and I really enjoyed how Graham (the fixer) says “no, no, we’re going to get out.”  The Companions  different to other iterations/eras perhaps? It’s a quartet. Each skilful, with independent tonal range.

    The score was ever so subtle. Nothing operatic, vast or voluminous.




    at approx. 45:49

    I admire the precision of that approximation.

    But as someone on That Twitter said: “Find someone who looks at you the way the Doctor looks at the Tardis”.

    syzygy @thane16

    @pedant well, yes I am admirable.  Mum said that so I typed it!

    But I agree with you too. Also she looks at the tardis as well as seeing & its gorgeous.

    People also say that we are disadvantaged when we cannot view a person we wish to. Awkward phrasing & “obvious” but that is a difficulty now. “This modern world” and all that…



    swordwhale @swordwhale

    I’m LIKING this new run…

    I totally love the new tardis… the blues and ocean colors and the organic shapes and the hands on fiddly bits, and surely you all caught the spinning translucent mini-tardis and the hourglass…

    As for everyone “unprotected in space”…eh, couldn’t that be part of the weird alien teleporty thingie? Like, they’re surrounded by some sort of force field yet?

    I have to say I love the new costume too. While the others have been either Classic Really Dressed Up And Ready For The Ball (round here we’re like T-shirts and blue jeans…always) or Whattheheck IS That??? (Cricket what?) this one is what I’d pull out of a thrift shop.





    @juniperfish …oooooo nice to know the tardis interior is echoing natural forms and goddess symbols.

    “the sinkhole that is Brexit”…lol… and while you’re at it, Doc, the trumpocalypse….


    swordwhale @swordwhale

    OK, I have to keep googling stuff…

    American who’s (sadly) a bit vague on Who before Capaldi …

    what’s this green police box thing????? I found some pics of Sheffield boxes that are designed different and kind of an odd 1950s Ford green/blue…

    swordwhale @swordwhale

    So how does a female authority figure assert herself without wearing a version of male “authoritative” attire?


    I think that sums up many reactions to the Doctor’s new wardrobe. Clothes speak to our expectations…

    If I’m in Texas, a knowledgeable cowboy better not be wearing Peter Capaldi’s (rather awesome) outfit. I would not ride with that dude.

    Women, it seems, are expected to somehow either dress like whoo whooo! or like males in the same positions. Pppphhhhhthhhttt! I think she’s nailed a comfortable bit of action wear that is also versatile and a little quirky, yet has some really cool flowing lines. Likin’ the rainbow and the suspenders and the hooded cloaky coat. Kind of timeless.

    Love the boots… I have lived in boots like that forever.

    swordwhale @swordwhale

    the Doctor’s deserts…

    I cling to a fading hope that some day before I finally pop me clogs there will be a Doctor who likes ginger nuts or chocolate digestives. Sadly, custard creams, with or without a cup of tea, appeal no more to my palate than do jammy dodgers, which is to say, not at all.


    I went out west one summer with some friends, one of whom was Dakota and had grown up on the Rosebud Rez. As we neared South Dakota, we stopped at a tiny gas station and Bev came running out with a bunch of crinkly wrapped treats. “I found Twin Bings!” She shared them with all of us… they’re kind of like awful Twinkies with pretend strawberry something or other in the middle, but they were the Taste Of Childhood for her.

    Image result for twin bing

    I totally had to look up a thing called “Chocolate Digestives”….

    My personal Thing I Would Like Dispensed By The Tardis is those Lofthouse soft sugar cookies with the buttercream frosting (and I am a chocolate fiend but these are ….aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa).

    Image result for icing sugar cookies


    swordwhale @swordwhale


    Properly they should be thrown by the handful into a giant bowl of milk until soft, then spooned up…

    yes, eat at least half the package…

    Image result for oreos in milk



    ichabod @ichabod

    @swordwhale  Love the boots… I have lived in boots like that forever.

    Aghh!  Just looking at those boots make makes my feet hurt . . . Ah, well, guess I’m still just a tenderfoot.

    Arbutus @arbutus

    @swordwhale   @mudlark

    I wonder if the TARDIS cookie dispenser produces whatever you’re thinking of, like the food machines on the Heart of Gold spaceship? I’d be thinking of gingersnaps.

    Mudlark @mudlark


    I’d be thinking of gingersnaps.

    In which case we appear to be in accord, since ginger snaps are an alternative name for what I referred to as ginger nuts 🙂  Brandy snaps, which I think I mentioned in another post, and which don’t always contain brandy but do contain ginger, are another matter. Usually filled with whipped cream, but when I’m in the mood for biscuits (not very often these days) I prefer them without.

    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @mudlark I accidentally made ginger snaps once by not putting enough flour in the gingernuts. Blew my mind. (This was before Doctor Who was revived, to be fair).

    syzygy @thane16


    the trumpocalypse….

    I love that term: I hope you don’t mind if I use that term to my mates? I will assuredly give you credit because they are Doctor Who-ers AND pretty interested in the American situation at the moment. If I stole your term, they’d know it and I’d get clocked!

    I really like the spoon you had in the bowl? That’s very cool. That amount of oreos would probably kill me but it’s good someone can eat that -with milk! I thought it was melted icecream, at 1st. When I was  a little kid (I really still am) I used to wait till icecream melted a bit & then stir it up real fast.

    @arbutus @mudlark Mum used to buy the brandy snaps and fill them with whip cream or a combination of mushed strawberries, mixed with fine sugar (?) & then added to the whipped cream which is then, shoved into the snap.

    I don’t think that sounds very “restaurant-y” does it? 🙂

    I can imagine a restaurant called The Ghost Monument. In Germany there were loads of pop up restaurants that were part of ghost tours. In Australia  we have them too. In the past we had a place called Death By Chocolate which was decked like the inside of a coffin with ghouls and ghostly apparitions floating about. Mum would say it lacked “elan.” She says that a lot & I think I need our wordsmiths to define this for me. Seems it can be used in different ways.

    Comparing this episode and ‘Rosa’ I was very interested in both. To me, they worked as companion pieces  because we saw insensitive and indifferent characters in the Moxturan, Mr Hologram as well as in mid ’50s Alabama but also with both episodes I felt the characters develop in a natural fashion? Whilst there’s lots of talking by the Doctor: planning and strategizing; apologies; caring;  a sense of ‘place’ and a “just get on with it” attitude, this talking and thinking aloud means we see subtle reactions by companions as they adapt, quickly, to new things.

    Also, with 3 companions I’ve found myself, along with the Doctor Who Nerd Herd referring to all of them as explorers more than ‘companions’ or assistants. The Doctor’s an explorer so I see four people (one TL) fixing things, chasing away the Toilet Paper monsters (who became wet through the night and try to strangle the Moxturan), alerting each other when danger starts to smell. It’s a ‘real’ team and I like that.

    Thank you, Thane

    Cath Annabel @cathannabel

    @swordwhale The reference to the green police box was to a very specific green police box which, as Yaz says, is situated by Sheffield Town Hall.  Here you go…



    Mudlark @mudlark


    I don’t think that sounds very “restaurant-y” does it?

    Not particularly, no.  Brandy snaps are fairly easy to make and rolling them before they harden is the trickiest part. But if I were in a restaurant and brandy snaps were on the menu, whether with cream or strawberries or both, I would almost certainly order them. Unless profiteroles were also on offer, in which case I would be faced with a very difficult choice 🙂

    As for a restaurant called the Ghost Monument, I’m not sure I would find that particularly inviting, though it might depend on whether or not the décor was off-puttingly gimmicky. The suggestion does remind me, though, of an evening when my colleagues and I were eating at a restaurant in York*. We were sitting near a large window, and after a while became conscious of the fact that every so often there was a crowd of people looking in at us. When we asked a waiter what was going on he told us that they were tourists on the regular ghost tours of the city, and that the building we were in was supposed to be haunted. Not that we noticed anything supernatural while we were there.

    * We were employed by a national organisation and worked from home most of the time, but twice a year each regional team met for field trips to discuss particular problems and exchange views.

    swordwhale @swordwhale


    Cool! Thanks! It’s actually quite pretty.

    swordwhale @swordwhale


    Not sure if I made up trumpocalypse, I’ve been saying it for soooooooo loooooooooong…. do use it, it fits!

    Sigh, moving to Australia… I do actually own a didgeridoo… ( I can even sort of play it)…

    Sadly, that was not my bowl of Oreos, but one I found somewhere on Pinterest? I do eat mine that way!!! Best to let them soak a minute or so… yep, if you type in “bowl of oreos in milk” it’s the first pic that comes up (on Pinterest). “Saved from Casey Brodley, Photographer” it says… now I must take my own bowl pics…





    Chiana @chiana

    Pardon me if anyone has already mentioned this; I only got time to watch this episode last night. The planet they were on had 3 suns, yet everything only had one shadow! It would have been quite easy to put in the extra shadows with cgi, and someone (Ryan, Yasmin or Graham) would have looked down and said “Wow, we’ve got 3 shadows!”


    Bilbo Baggins @bilbobaggins


    I’m very sorry for the delay to answer you, please forgive me!

    You’re right, they really look like mother and daughter, or even sisters!

    swordwhale @swordwhale


    3 shadows…

    photographer artist smacks head in disbelief that she did not notice this

    or the shadows may have been somewhat vague, due to the proximity of the suns to each other

    or they couldn’t afford the CGI

    or the extra lights

    I think Tatooine had the same problem…

    Chiana @chiana

    They probably blew the CGI budget on all the spaceship sequences! I think the shadows should have been a bit fuzzy as the light from the other suns would have encroached on each one.


    Didn’t notice it in Star Wars I must say!

    Anonymous @

    Anyone for a bonkers theory? Took me long enough to think of it!

    The TARDIS has been through three damaging regenerations in a short period, and all that life energy spraying about has triggered something in the life cycle of TARDISes.

    Knowing what’s coming, the TARDIS doesn’t crash with the Doctor this time, but ejects her. As she lands on Earth and deals with Tim Shaw, the TARDIS goes to one of the few suitable places in the universe, since Gallifrey won’t work now.

    It goes to the Ghost Monument, where this happens oh, every thousand cycles or so. The TARDIS produces a TARDIS seed.

    The birth trauma, if you will, is such that the TARDIS must be unoccupied while going through it, and on top of that can no longer reduce its weight in the outside universe. In fact, its weight becomes so great it will pull a planet out of orbit.

    Exhausted, the TARDIS is not yet able to fetch the Doctor, and so the Doctor comes to the TARDIS.

    The season finale will show the TARDIS seed starting to sprout – and the Stenza returning to the planet they devastated so no one else could get their hands on such a seed.

    What do you think? Wouldn’t that be something?

    Chiana @chiana

    Very interesting theory. I’ve a feeling the finale won’t be that good unfortunately!

    At the moment I’m not getting into it as much as usual, not because of Jodie but because of the writing. I’m just not finding the stories very gripping, although I haven’t seen the fourth episode yet.

    Having said that though, I am getting a bit fed up with the ostentatious sonic screwdriver posing!

    Chiana @chiana

    Apologies if this appears twice, I tried to post just now and it disappeared.

    Kevin, that’s a very interesting theory but I have a feeling the finale won’t be that good unfortunately!

    I’m not getting into the new series as much as usual, I haven’t seen the fourth episode yet but the stories don’t seem to be that gripping and I’m getting a little fed up with the ostentatious sonic screwdriver posing.

    Chiana @chiana

    I think it’s a great theory, unfortunately probably better than anything the writers will come up with!

    I tried twice to post yesterday, my posts just disappeared. The problem must be sorted out now.

    ichabod @ichabod

    @kevinwho  @chiana  Great bonkering Bonkers!  Love it.  If only . . . !  But, no chance.

    Me, I’ll be quieting down here, I think, during this season anyway (unless it starts giving something more to chew on).  It’s pretty much what I expected from Chibnal, and the fact that I had some glitchy problem getting the spiders ep and everything since and have not yet got around to getting it fixed —  a pretty good indication that this isn’t working for me any more.  All the anticipation and urgency is gone, for me, but I’ll catch up and watch it all, hoping for some sparks to fly that will work.

    Bet I’d feel differently if I had some kids here to watch it with me!


    Mirime @mirime

    Again not read the whole thread, but I’m so glad I’m not the only one who sees a bit of the 5th Doctor in Jodie’s portrayal.

    ‘Timeless Child’ is interesting. I’m torn between wanting to know more and thinking it should just be left as a mystery. There’s such a risk of disappointment and I’m not confident in Chibnall’s abilities yet.

    Chiana @chiana

    Apologies for the multiple posts above, apparently I was getting chucked in the spam folder; Craig very kindly dragged me out of it this morning!

    syzygy @thane16


    Bet I’d feel differently if I had some kids here to watch it with me!

    But you do. I’m here. Also, @pedants niece and other assorted kids. They may not be in front of the telly but they’re coming to the site…..



    ichabod @ichabod

    @mirime  ‘Timeless Child’ is interesting. I’m torn between wanting to know more and thinking it should just be left as a mystery. There’s such a risk of disappointment and I’m not confident in Chibnall’s abilities yet.

    Me too; I’d love to see that bloom into something gripping, something to help anchor this Doctor to her own deep past maybe, linking herself firmly to it from now, in her new ID.

    @magickim  get rid of his SJW garbage

    Oh, come on, don’t get into that dreary Right wing “talking points” thing here, it won’t fly and will interfere with people taking your comments seriously.  And you won’t find much of a welcome here.

    @thane16  But you do. I’m here. Also, @pedants niece and other assorted kids. They may not be in front of the telly but they’re coming to the site…

    Yikes — you’re right!  Thank goodness.  I need to hear what you have to say!  You (and them too) are the audience CC and Whittaker are aiming for, after all, so what you think of the show is a lot more important than any grumbling from the likes o’ me.  (NOT sarcasm — that’s just good marketing sense for the long run — and we all hope it *will* continue to be a long run.)

    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @magickirin the original members (including @bluesqueakpip) can only be amused at someone using the word snowflake in that manner of insult here. This forum was created out of the dying embers of a comment thread for The Snowmen.

    It was also created as a place to discuss Doctor Who – including disagreeing, strongly, about episodes and eras of Doctor Who without the toxicity that descends so often on the internet whenever this show is discussed.

    Additionally (sorry everyone, I’m posting the link again) if you’ve seen every era of Doctor Who and payed even the slightest bit of attention, you’d know this:except that one time…




    Still love that link.

    I love the term ‘edgelord’. That’s you @magickirin. It’s code for ‘complete fuckwit who needs some sex’.

    Also: Gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled is one of the funniest things I have ever read.

    nerys @nerys

    @miapatrick Thank you for posting that link! Sometimes trolling has its virtues, in that it prompts posts like yours with that link. You said you’ve posted it before, but for whatever reason that’s my first time reading it. Sometimes we need to be reminded of how progressive the times before us have been, and how in reality what is deemed “PC” is often more a matter of “everything old is new again” … necessarily so, since we seem to be in a time of “one step forward, two steps back.”

    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @nerys – I think it might the the third time I’ve posted it on this site. I tend to have it primed and ready to go wherever I go to discuss this season. Feels a little sad that it’s needed.

    We do indeed. Because we’re not on a ladder or staircase of progress, it’s more like an Escher picture. Or an escalator where the steps keep turning into a slope. Or at least it feels like it sometimes.

    (Bloody hell that’s before I open my bottle of wine. Apologies in advance everyone…)

    Craig @craig

    Hi @magickirin, thanks for your contribution tonight. I have deleted almost all of the conversation as I don’t want conversations about episodes hijacked in a way that may put off possible new members.

    I have not, however, deleted your account or listed you as a spammer. But if you do it again I will.

    We like to have conversations here, with comments that are well thought out, and well written. We are quite happy to engage with someone that doesn’t like the current show as long as you are polite and have an interesting point of view. I’m afraid you didn’t display that tonight.

    You might actually enjoy talking about how you feel about the show with us, in an approachable manner that earns you some respect.

    Oh, and please read the Etiquette page – it’s been there for a long time, and for a reason.

    syzygy @thane16


    Not sure where the comment went about “deleting” a conversation? When we clicked on it, we ended up with the top of ‘The Ghost Monument’ page  – – -but with no pages -like a whole different universe!  A solitract, maybe.

    I just scooted thru ALL the comments on this page and was happy to say that  I didn’t “lose it” (as I was prone to do: hence Thane has the account) and discovered we all did pretty well. Unless there was something ‘overnight’ that occurred which we missed? Some huge ‘hack’ of the site or a particularly nasty new/part-time poster?




    I suspect @craig decided not to wait.

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