The Winchester

[nerys @nerys]

@ps1l0v3y0u Oh. Could I make it ‘Broadchurch’ in space? A series of Intergalactic Moiders with conflicted cardboard cutouts (my fav. Pretty please?)

Had you leveled the “cardboard cutouts” complaint against Season 2, I would have been right there with you. The second season of Broadchurch was a disaster, IMO. Throw in a past murder that no viewer cares about? OK, I get it, it’s the old “cold case haunts investigator, and is finally resolved” scenario. But did anyone care? I didn’t. I cared about the characters I’d come to know in the first season … and we got precious little of them. I approached the third season with fear and trepidation, but I felt that it redeemed itself and didn’t repeat its mistake from the second season.

I realize you’re not carrying that over to Chibnall’s tenure on Doctor Who, but I did want to comment on it. I was surprised that so little of the character development I saw on Broadchurch carried over to Doctor Who. I still wonder if it was a “too many cooks in the kitchen” problem. That’s what it felt like.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@nerys
That was more a comment on Chibnall’s previous Who tendencies. I did try Broadchurch. Was mainly watching Scandinoir at the time, itself pretty flawed. So, on the one hand my comment was a cheap shot, imagining what Chibnall might have done with Who (depending on The Corp). But I can’t really say what I saw convinced me that Chibnall’s handling of character was ever not just dull and worthy. His Who contribution should be no surprise.

Crime. I can be fussy. The later (most recent) incarnation of ‘Those Who Kill,’ is consistently disturbing, frightening and yet curiously dutiful to the (female) protagonist. Great writing but not an easy watch, especially the first one (bring a friend). Also the ‘Paris’ Belle Epoque series had fantastic production values, wonderful acting and chutzpah coming out of its ears; I hope they can fund another series.

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u    That passage I quoted – I think Ohila may very well have been there for a quick readthrough, since it was only the prologue (released before the ep itself I think) with just the two speaking characters.

Agreed that talented actors can contribute much to the episode if allowed, though  they’re probably a headache for the writers who have to rewrite lines.

Re your hypothesis, which is (I think) roughly that Chibs was trying too hard to be quite different from Moff’s episodes – well, maybe.   But I also think he just lacked the talent to match those.   His best episode was probably ‘Eve of the Daleks’ which (IMO!) would rate as middling good in a Moff season.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

Thought I’d move the discussion here.

Well, Ncuti Gatwa has gone. Anyone going for a retrospective? This is difficult because of the supposed ‘controversies’. Answer, simple: no controversy. Rating: better than Whittaker, not as good as Capaldi/Smith/Ecclestone. That’s in respect to writing AND performance. Great performances but, whether he annoys you or not, Tennant is untouchable.
Is he coming back? He’s out there for a reason but, if Gatwa wouldn’t commit to more than two seasons, then Tennant’s isn’t back week in week out: perhaps an odd ep or, most probably, the big denouement of the arc.
So, you would think Billie would be in harness for a while.

On the other hand, and checking The Reality War thread no one has mentioned this, I have read she was credited not as The Doctor, but just ‘introducing Billie Piper.’

So, she’s clearly Gallifreyan, but who? Or Who?

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u      Billie Piper as the Doctor?    Wow, I’m right back into it.   My enthusiasm has been revived.   I *love* Billie Piper.

Hopefully she’ll be the Doctor, or at least in Who, for quite a while.   She certainly seems to be well disposed towards the series, judging by the several times she reappeared after Rose’s demise.   Most notably as The Moment in Day of the Doctor.

I think it’s time I rewatched from The Star Beast onwards and picked up the last season DVD set.

 

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@ps1l0v3y0u

“introducing Billie Piper”

How can you introduce an actor that everyone knows from past Who?

A strange use of the word “introduce”. Seemingly, it only make sense if you read it as “introducing Billie Piper as …well, somebody or other…”

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@blenkinsopthebrave @dentarthurdent

what I meant was, John Hurt was credited as ‘The War Doctor’ in Name of the Doctor but, apparently, Billie didn’t get anything like that this time. So, I assumed she’s The Doctor… but, if she is another version, you have Ruth, The Watcher or The Valeyard. Mind you Valeyard is french for Old Man. Don’t know if anyone has told Billie that.

I will have to go back to view the actual credits, having been side tracked by shout-outs to The Bakers, Letts and Nation. I expected someone to say ‘Nation gets a credit whatever’ but, bearing in mind no-one has done anything serious with the Daleks since World Enough and Time (in the weapon forges of Villengard in fact) I wonder now if the ‘Remembrance Oct 5th ref’ was not Omega but the Pepperpots, if not the genocide of Skaro.

The Moment link is interesting though because it should imply Billiedoc has a conscience. Whereas 10 was quite willing to fry the Racknoss, torment The Family of Blood forever, waste a regeneration to keep pretty, then proclaim himself Timelord Invictus.

Wiping out the Daleks with Donna is perfectly forgivable.

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u    Well, Ruth is quite unlike Rose, physically (though of course regeneration could be used to account for that).   I would very much hope Billie is the new Doctor.   As for the fact that she’s already been a major character – well, Capaldi was also a Doctor who had previously appeared as an incidental character.   And, Rose had also looked into the time vortex powering the Tardis, which might have had some lasting effect on her.

As to the Moment (or its interface), according to the episode, The Moment simply chose Rose as a character from the Doctor’s past which should be pleasing to the Doctor.   (It confused past and future, but that’s just one of those things that happens).   Whether the Interface turns out to have any deeper connection with the Doctor – well, we’ll see.

By the way, I don’t think the Daleks were in World Enough and Time, that was Cybermen.   Daleks did appear in at least two of Chibs’ episodes.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dentarthurdent @blenkinsopthebrave

Sorry, posting under time pressure. Of course, I meant ‘Twice Upon a Time,’ NOT ‘World Enough…’

I haven’t studied Chib’s Dalek stories. I really will have to check out the post TTC arc and specials. Albeit reluctantly. But Moff drilled right down into Dalekdom, whereas Chib just wheeled them around, didn’t he?

But anyway I checked the Reality War credits and, long before The Martins, Letts, and Nation…

‘Ncuti Gatwa as The Doctor’

‘Jodie Whittaker as The Doctor’

’and introducing Billie Piper…’

so… PROBABLY The Doctor. But might (eventually) be Ruth, The Watcher or The Valeyard. Or any of the mugshots from Morbius.

Yes, Capdoc copped a Roman face to remind him to save Ashildr, who I have speculated elsewhere was quite crucial to The Doctor’s history, so actually he really had no choice. But significant.

6, back in the days when JNT thought if you squeezed your eyes very tight, no one would notice, had previously strutted Maxil, a shouty Gallifreyan functionary. No plan. Random.

If The Doctor has Rose’s face, why?

1. Looked into The Heart of The Tardis

2. Personified The Moment’s Interface. Of course the script of Day of The Doctor would seem to indicate that 2 follows from 1 (Badwolf)

3. Russ’ last desperate throw of the dice.

4. Always part of Cartmel 2.0… there was an early draft of Nuwho in which Rose was the product of The Doctor’s attempt to design the perfect companion.

Which is weird because you would think that was Ace, wouldn’t you?

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u   Of course, Twice Upon a Time!   I’d forgotten about Rusty.

Chibs had two Dalek episodes, IIRC, Resolution (which was one of his better episodes) and Eve of the Daleks which was his best  (and I say that as a non-Chibnall-enthusiast).

I liked Ace, but I think Sophie Aldred is a bit too old now to play that part.   Yes I *know* they brought her back in The Power of the Doctor,  Chibs’ final episode and (as I recall) also a not-bad episode, but doing a cameo role in one ep is far different from playing a major continuing role.

Maxil – I thought you meant he was Capaldi, but Google tells me it was Colin Baker.   OK, I get the point.   I think you can usually get away with it.   Thinking on Monty Python’s Life of Brian, I never had any problem with John Cleese playing about six different roles *in the same movie*, in fact I hardly even noticed.   Maybe I was laughing too hard.  (As an aside, in New Zealand where the pool of actors is quite small, even if you include part-time extras, when ‘Hercules’ and ‘Xena’ were making one episode a week, we got quite accustomed to seeing the same dozen beefy guys as outlaw thugs one week, Roman legionaries the next, and barbarian hordes the week after).

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u   Oh yes, re Daleks, Moff made major forays into Dalek history.   Chibs used them as villain of the week – nothing wrong with that, you can write a perfectly good ep with that format.   Considering what he did to the Time Lords, the Daleks were probably lucky he didn’t give them his undivided attention  [/snark]

 

[winston @winston]

@nerys   @blenkinsopthebrave  and all my fellow Canadians and Whovians .Happy Canada Day! The lady looks good for her age. Our true north, strong and free. We have a lot of problems and there is lots of room for improvement but we are free to vote, to voice our concerns, to make our own decisions about our future and to stand up for the vulnerable people and creatures.

We have driven from coast to coast and Canada is a huge country with a small town personality. It is big and beautiful and ours.

Happy Birthday Canada.

Sorry, was that too much?

stay Canadian

[WhoHar @whohar]

@winston @nerys @blenkinsopthebrave

Happy Canada Day!

I’ve only been to parts of Western Canada (mainly Vancouver and Whistler / Blackcomb) but have very fond memories of both the place and the people. Enjoy the day.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@winston, @nerys and all, just awoken from celebrating Canada Day. I was drinking a very nice red wine and wearing my very best white shirt, and therefore “showing the colours”. @whohar, you are always welcome back! As for the importance of Canada to “Doctor Who”, let’s not forget that the show was created by Sydney Newman, who was of, course, Canadian!

 

[nerys @nerys]

@winston @whohar @blenkinsopthebrave Thank you for your warm Canada Day wishes! My husband decided to work and plans to take the day off later on. So it was a regular day for us. But, given recent events, I am all the more grateful to call Canada home. We celebrated Canada Day quietly, but no less gladly.

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@winston  @nerys   @blenkinsopthebrave   A belated but warm wish for a happy Canada Day.   From another Commonwealth country on the other side of the world.   To address the elephant in the room – hope your circumstances don’t suffer too much from the antics of the Orange Idiot  (and that’s as political as I want to get in this forum).

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@winston

That was a lovely description of Canada. I moved here (from Australia) about 12 years ago, although my wife (who is Canadian) and I met and married in Australia. But after visiting here (with her) about 25 years ago, I fell in love with the place. It took a while, but we finally made it. And I cannot think of a better place to be.

[WhoHar @whohar]

@winston @nerys @blenkinsopthebrave

@whohar, you are always welcome back!

Interestingly, I had two job offers to go and live in Canada in the early 2010’s – both in Montreal. I umm’ed and err’ed about it for some time before heading to Melbourne.

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