The Witch’s Familiar

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  • #43817
    lisa @lisa

    @kharis I noticed that when Clara was tied and hanging she has both legs tied
    as opposed to 1 leg tied and 1 bent as it appears on the tarot card I saw. So my question
    is if you happen to know if that changes in any significant way the tarot message?
    This is me being a bit nit picky over probably nothing and I’m really thinking it was
    because of safety for Jenna but still just curious if you know if it makes any difference.

    #43818
    Anonymous @

    @ichabod @arbutus @mudlark @denvaldron @nerys @spider

    I’ve stated my opinion on this three times already so I’ll add a bit and reference other interesting comment. A conversation between a pair of non-humans may well be beyond our understanding. The Doctor and Davros both had plans of their own. The problem with best laid plans is they always lead to stuff-ups. Everything goes to hell the minute the first shot is fired type-of-thing. As Ichabod said: “But up close, things are forever going wrong”

    It wasn’t entirely a dishonest game. There were moment, minutes when life slowed down, when Davros and the Doctor shared a joke, when the tears may well have been genuine and as @bluesqueakpip said yesterday –

    “We don’t know if his congratulations on the survival of Gallifrey were entirely false. If Davros’s most intense motivation is the survival of his people, it’s possible that he still has the empathy to realise that the Doctor being the last of his people would be the most terrible fate imaginable. And still has enough compassion left to realise that…”

    It’s really a matter of what we personally view within the encounter. One can argue like a lawyer for eternity but it’s supposition in the end brought about through the evidence one sees on screen contributed by the quality of the acting and the script.

    In both of those, I thought we were very lucky. As Arbutus mentioned several days ago it had a softly spoken intensity to it -no tremendous action scenes but quiet gravitas. Far from what young children might actually enjoy; excepting sewers, for they always love those!

    Beyond acting and script we have the knowledge that the Doctor and Davros believe in the importance of belonging, of being with one’s people: here they agree, here, they are both honest about that history and through their shared understanding they create empathy. To me, it’s vivid and beautiful but like a mayfly, it’s elusive and its colour and soft hiss and whisper vanish in an instant.

    I never actually saw Davros as spectacularly well (although he came close to jaunty near the end). I thought he looked as close as ever to death’s door -but then, one can look pretty “buff,  healthy and robustwhilst being thoroughly ill. I’ve had close experience with that myself.

    The peaky colours, the focus on his withered skeleton, the Doctor’s own haggard expression all focussed that belief, for me. For once, though, I was convinced there was a subtlety to this Davros: he wasn’t the vastly technical purple presence on the horizon, looming up, ready for revenge. He wasn’t shrieking and furious – his debate with the Doctor was based on measured learning, conviction and occasional bursts of a friendly disposition. His diplomacy, like the Doctor’s, was floating and ambiguous. Knowing this, the Doctor applied his own ‘science,’ and observation to the gradual ruin of his opponent. At the beginning of their act, every kindness was matched equally; by the end, any previous kindness forfeited until Davros’ cruel nature triumphed.

    It is within one’s grasp to allow -or even just hope -that Davros may have made a different choice. That the Doctor’s remonstrance and gentleness could have prevented Davros from asserting his pre-eminence, assenting to a foretold legacy. But Davros was no friend and so the Doctor martialled his skills like a king seeing a terrain over which he must advance with no sea coast to supply him and no companion as head of morale.

    Perhaps that hope, that grasp, suggests Davros demonstrates honest compassion,  just a whisper, but enough to create a rumour. It’s within our nature to look for the best in people and I believe the Doctor, liege Lord or not, does the same. As Lark added, the Doctor won’t be deceived. That’s probably why he’s quite happy to desecrate Davros’ ‘sick chair’ and leave him lying in a heap @denvaldron? That was his one regrettable act, perhaps. Or maybe the Doctor is like a man who, having wandered into a comedy, decides to stay and see it all the way through. He knows there’s little truth but he’s happy, delighted even, to exchange a laugh and an honourable story with a foe. Much like soldiers on opposite sides of the battlefields hundred of years ago.

    @whisht “my giddy aunt” LOL. You know, I think Aunt Clara has just the cardigans for auntyness too. Now, this is your bonkers theory and you’re sticking to it? 🙂

    On Davros twisted body, I have to say I did burble some laughter -not exactly sympathetic, clearly, but those blue wired ‘ legs’ were rather awful, weren’t they?  I speculate that he would need that ‘space’ below. It may be empty space but it gives him the look of a Dalek: full metal jacket, outer casing, equal height and dodgem wheels. No king can be shorter than his minions. As to what he keeps in there, I guess whatever some men like to store in their man bags for an upcoming opportunity?  A weapon, extra bullets, a charger, protection and light reading 🙂

    Onwards!

    #43819
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    Tarot cards, sorry if I am repeating others’ theories:

    Strength I am certain is Kate Stewart. Note the lion.

    http://www.tarotlore.com/tarot-cards/strength/

    The Tower may have been the purported destruction of the Tardis or the Dalek’s trying to steal the Doctor’s regeneration energy awakening their discarded brethren:

    http://www.tarotlore.com/tarot-cards/the-tower/

    The Chariot is the Doctor’s tank or Davros’s chair:

    http://www.tarotlore.com/tarot-cards/the-chariot/

    #43820
    JimmytheTulip @jimmythetulip

    @purofilion @221badwolf

    221badwolf, correct we did see Clara’s time line in “Ring’s” but don’t under-estimate the power of the Moff when he writes lines like… “Why this one? Why did I choose this face? It’s like I’m trying to tell myself something. Like I’m trying to make a point. But what is so important that I can’t just tell myself what I think?”

    If the Doctor can appear with a face of someone he previously encountered perhaps the Master can too…..

    He can’t tell himself what he thinks because he doesn’t know. Perhaps the TARDIS ‘helped’ this to happen to make a point to him? Perhaps that’s also why the TARDIS doesn’t like Clara…?

    #43821
    JimmytheTulip @jimmythetulip

    Further to the above, Stephen Moffat (as you’ve probably read) had to say this about the order of Missy’s Master and whether she came after John Simm…

    “In my head, as it stands, she’s the one after John. But my researches aren’t complete, so I’d better say nothing, as I’ve been wrong before. You could’ve knocked me over with a feather when the War Doctor turned up in The Name of the Doctor.”

    So it’s entirely possible that Clara (if she is the Master) came after John Simm and Missy came after Clara.

    #43822
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    I am guessing any exit for the character of Clara Osgood will allow for her eventual guest-starring in a later huge episode, circumstances permitting in Jenna Coleman’s future schedule. On the other hand I expect a certain finality as to why she can no longer journey regularly with the Doctor in the Tardis.

    Now imagine this: The Nethersphere still exists and that’s where Missy imprisoned Osgood who is technically dead, just like Danny Pink is. Some circumstance occurs where Clara gives her life so that Osgood can come back and Clara can re-unite with Danny, perhaps to help raise a bunch of orphaned children. The Doctor vows to some day find a way to bring them all back.

    #43823
    DenValdron @denvaldron

    @iamnotafishiamafreeman It appears that you feel quite passionately about the subject. I respect your right to an opinion and encourage you in this regard. Good luck and be well.

    @purofilion Thank you for your comments. Even if we disagree, I respect your thoughts and views.

    #43824
    lisa @lisa

    I will miss not having Missy in the next episodes. Its obvious that Moffett has
    been having a blast writing all the dialogue for her and Missy loves being Missy.
    In fact it appears SM loves Missy so much that he’s given her a gift.
    In the scene in the square (last episode) when she complains of a caffeine
    buzz-monster I was thinking “wow” she’s not having any trouble with old drum beat in
    her head anymore. She can even have a caffeine buzz! If she did have the drumming then
    don’t think we’d have jolly Missy who is such a treat.
    Hope she turns up later on in the season!

    #43826
    ichabod @ichabod

    @purofilion   Did anyone think Capaldi looked really quite sick? I’m assuming in addition to weight loss – although his hair has grown weight 🙂 that perhaps the colourisation of the episode as well as the extreme close -ups have an effect. . . . Maybe one needs real regen. energy to survive this show. And how come Moffat always looks well rested and bouncy?

    I wouldn’t say he looked sick — but he did look tired.  The pace seems to be taking a toll on him, which isn’t surprising.  Someone posted part of a panel at the Radio Times Big Do last week (?) at which more eps per season were suggested, and Capaldi’s reaction was visibly “Not on your life, sonny”, though I don’t recall what he actually said in reply.  It was very interesting, in fact, terrible video and not much better sound, but he seemed very workmanlike (as well as funny, of course), no airy-fairy inspirational talk.  He said something about every actor having their personal “bag of tricks” that they turn to, though with the Doctor he of course tries to get beyond that automatic first response.

    I remember an actor in my (one and only) play stopping during a rehearsal and frowning about his own response to a speech by another:  “My go-to response — you know, when I don’t really know what the hell to do — is to laugh; but that’s not working here, is it?”  I’ve learned a lot from actors; that’s why I pay them very close attention, as master (or less than that) crafts-people.

    As for Moffat — isn’t it obvious?  He’s a vampire!

    #43827
    Serahni @serahni

    @nerys  No worries!  It’s always nice to have backup. lol

    @spider  I think it also warrants a mention that a lot of the Clara that people seem to reference is Smith’s Clara.  Last series, we saw her thrust into a lot of situations, often entirely intentional on the part of the Doctor, and at one point she actually loses it with him entirely for it and tells him to go away and never come back.  We don’t see a very in-control Clara at that point, in fact I feel that it has been made reasonably obvious that her trust in this incarnation is not as immediate as it was with Smith’s.  Clara has been rattled since Capaldi turned up and, if we believe that the companion is the audience’s access to the show, then perhaps we have been invited to be unsure and less confident along with her.  I would say it’s working okay for me, given that there was a split second there when I actually thought the Doctor might shoot Clarek, (I made that up), and herald Coleman’s unceremonious exit from the show in the second episode.  I don’t trust this Doctor entirely either, which is what makes him so delicious!

    Whatever the case, I don’t feel that this is the first time we have seen Clara shaken up and scared since Smith’s Doctor departed and, since her trust in this incarnation is requiring a lot more work on her part, being stuck inside a Dalek, on the Daleks’ home planet, having been undermined the entire time by the woman who killed her boyfriend, with this man she knows but doesn’t pointing a disintegration weapon at her is probably just cause for concern. lol

    #43828
    Missy @missy

    @ichabod

    We feel the same about some American TV, so I know what your sister means.
    I have always found British TV to be very natural, and not at all theatrical. Are, but then, “all the world’s a stage” and everyone sees things in a different perspective.

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #43829
    Anonymous @

    @jimmythetulip

    I must be missing something. How is Clara a possible Master? I’m great with Bonkers but are there some reasons, some evidence to support this, Sir Tulip? 🙂

    If Clara and Missy Master are together and one is locking the other in a Dalek, throwing her down a hole and using her as bait (not to mention pointy stick and “peckish”) then I really don’t see much self love “dearie”

    “Say something nice Clara.” Missy is nuts but two…at the same time…..? OK, we had Smith and Tennant and even Hurt…but they worked together. There was linear sense as each knew the other (though may not have always liked the “other”).

    Yeah, no, I don’t “underestimate anyone” but I do like my Bonkers ideas to be rendered sensibly. Yep, that don’t make much sense either.

    Bonkers do not equal sensible! 🙂

    Hmmm. I think Clara is just Clara. I do think her head is rearranged by nano nutty dalek genes. Beyond that, I don’t really think she’s a claricle either. Her life was established as Clara Prime when she met the Doctor in her role as nanny. I suspect the soufflé was very interesting because she said it as Oswin and again as Clara Prime and we all went “da da da dum”  🙂

    Still, I’m obsessed with why she said she was born below a clock tower. I suppose, to some extent, everyone is, aren’t they?  🙂   The clock being on a hill n’ all!

    Clearly I am very boring and have no Bonkers to add! Damn!

    Kindest, puro

    #43830
    Serahni @serahni

    @purofilion  I am still waiting for the moment where Big Ben sounds and a huge rush of regeneration energy seeps from the Clock Tower and all the Timelords hiding on Earth have their Chameleon Arcs unlocked. XD

    #43831
    Missy @missy

    @purofilion

    Thanks for answering puro, I can’t find your post, but obviously I read it.

    I just feel that my OH is missing out, but he does not. Mind you, he thoroughly enjoys Merlin – as do I.

    Peter Capaldi, in my opinion, is the best of the four – so far.

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #43832
    ichabod @ichabod

    @pedant  this episode really delivered in spades the full and epic scale of the arrogance of the time lords in a way that would have been unacceptable coming from The Doctor. And again, that is about the character of a people who have mastery of time itself and to whom stopping a few thousand planes is flight is a mere parlour trick.

    Yeah — but she *is* regarded by all as crazy, and there was all that “non-intervention” Prime Directive stuff back in the day, so I reckon the TLs are very aware of this temptation, on the whole.  Missy?  She *lives* for temptation!  But she’s not typical, is she?

    I agree, of course, about Clara; but her position now is very odd, and difficult to describe.  She was a goddess in the machine for SmithDoc, the machine being mainly his timeline.  Then she became CapDoc’s fractious partner in some strange personal version of La Valse, the two of them spinning around each other in fretful friction as they headed, separately but together, toward major resolutions in their lives — him to his wild card identity, hers to her escape from Earth as her major theater of operations and a dedication to having as many flings among the stars as she can.

    Only now — that close, jaggedy relationship with CapDoc was resolved.  She’s got to be something else to him now, and he to her.  Sometime traveling companion is pretty weak, compared to schoolmaster/dominatrix/emotional storm-that-must-be-endured.  And he’s not studying her any more, testing her, trying out facets of his own nature with and against hers.  IMO, the tightness of the S8 bond is gone, particularly with the addition (however on-and-off) of MissMaster as an old partner/antagonist of his.

    She *is* the puppy, with no way back to her pack any more (Danny was that way, and he’s gone).  What can she make of this new, much lower status?  What can she make of it that will interest and satisfy her — and us?  Hell of a challenge.  I wonder what arguments Moffat and Capaldi used to convince her to sign on for S9?

    #43833
    Anonymous @

    @jphamlore

    Oh I wish she could see Danny again but whilst he did come back and there was resolution -it was a one -cycle one-person ride back.  He gave it, and rightly, away to the child, for whom he felt responsible. Perhaps now Danny can ‘move on’ in some other way -inclining towards his faith, should he have one. I recall Danny saying the Matrix was dying. So no luck on that front. Clara seems to have been around for a very long time.

    Although perhaps not as long as Amy. At least Amy and Rory, whilst separated from the Doctor, lived in happy harmony for the rest of their lives. I fear Clara’s departing may be a worse demise -I hate to say it, but I hope so. I’d rather she not have her memory ‘wiped’ like Donna, live on killing monsters like Martha (and appearing in Torchwood) or ….living on a separate universe with her human doctor.

    Grief, we need an emotional kick in the teeth on this one people!

    @seranhni oh yes, that would be good. Hey? Now! Are you saying Clara will be un-arched too? No! Really? Seriously?

    @missy no worries: there are an INSANE number of posts for this episode. Some kind of record. Of course I have contributed hundreds of words of blather which has opened nobody’s eyes as I am useless at predicting anything!

     

    #43834
    Anonymous @

    that’s @serahni above

    #43835
    Serahni @serahni

    @purofilion  It is possibly wishful thinking on my part, but I’ve been expecting it for ages!  I anticipated a Big Ben angle of that magnitude when the pocket watches first appeared, but it’s just my bonkers theorising at work. lol.  I’m not sure I have any solid evidence for it, though I could probably concoct some if I tried hard enough.

    #43836
    Kharis @kharis

    @lisa About the double tied legs, my mind immediately chopped this up to the very practical reason that she was wearing a below the knee skirt which would be ackward.  Crew probably argued to Moffat that it was a no go in that outfit and at that point he would have to agree.

    @purofilion @bluesqueakpip What still bothers me is how is Clara born in her Claricle forms?  So was she born to Gallifreyan parents when we see her on Gallifrey, or did she randomly pop into the right place?  She can’t be born to parents randomly?

     

     

    #43838
    Anonymous @

    @serahni yes, that is amazing! I didn’t think of the pocket watches. That far back? That is Bonkers at Its Best and deserves Platinum: or one of those stars Sarah Jane has around her.

    Awesome work Sera of the Ni!

    #43839

    @ichabod

    Yeah — but she *is* regarded by all as crazy, and there was all that “non-intervention” Prime Directive stuff back in the day, so I reckon the TLs are very aware of this temptation, on the whole.  Missy?  She *lives* for temptation!

    Her sanity, or otherwise, isn’t really pertinent, is it? The Doctor self-describes as a madman in a box and when he first rocked up to 76 Totter’s Lane he wasn’t exactly mr nice guy (he was willing to stove in a cave man’s head). But exposure to humans mellowed him.

    The power of the scene in the square was that Missy’s insanity (psychopathy/sociopathy, whatever) wasn’t the point – it was the gap in power between the whole of humanity (personified in Clara) and one Time Lord.

    This is a species that was willing to bring the universe to ruin in its war with the Daleks and the scene in the square turned that idea (to put it in the bleak form of modern media narrative) from a story about a tidal wave of refugees to the story of a toddler with a name washed up on a beach.  Clara saw the full power of the Time Lords not as a 3D artwork in the Under Gallery, but up close and personal – and felt tiny.

    #43840
    todeledo @todeledo

    Just some quick notes, haven’t read through the thread.

    I think that the daleks needed a bit more individuality to not become a recurring predictable theme in doctor who. Moffat gave us a two parter that changed everything and nothing. An absolutely terrifying consept was invented, that the daleks have feelings. I love twists like this.

    Missy is as evil as always, I was horrified when she tried to make the Doctor leave Clara on Skaro traped in a dalek.

    The discussion between old Davros and the Doctor was intresting, the child actor was fantastic.

    The episode was an over all an amazing experience. Loved it.

    #43842
    bendubz11 @bendubz11

    I have a theory, but it relies on the promo picture released on the 19th with the possible easter eggs, so I don’t know whether it counts as spoilers or not

    #43843
    Mudlark @mudlark

    @bendubz11  Anything relating to episodes which have not yet aired counts as a spoiler.  If it concerns information or material released officially by the BBC, then it goes on that thread.  Anything from any other source belongs under general Spoilers.

    #43844
    bendubz11 @bendubz11

    @mudlark thanks I’ll put the theory on the BBC approved thread then 🙂

    #43845
    janetteB @janetteb

    @pedant On the question about Clara, (already at least a page back), I don’t think she panicked until she was unable to communicate with the Doctor given the extremely limited vocabulary available to her. When whatever she said translated to either I am a Dalek or You are an enemy of the Daleks there really were any options available to her. Before that however, though clearly scared, she submits to being locked into the Dalek because she trusts that Missy has a plan which will save the Doctor. So very definitely not disagreeing with you, just quibbling over a minor point. Clara was being brave in very challenging circumstances until confronted with the impossible, where she was trapped in every conceivable sense, physically and verbally.

    @kharis, I have also been pondering the question of how the “Claricles” come into being. I posted on this earlier. It is implied that they are born in the usual sense. I suspect that this will remain one of those “fuzzy” mysteries that won’t ever be resolved. Maybe some things are best left to the imagination.

    Regarding that other discussion my humble view is that there were moments where Davros was genuine, the joke when they laughed together and when he talked of having a home. It is the interplay of genuine emotion with devious cunning that makes his betrayal of the Doctor so shocking. In the end however we are talking about a very talented actor playing a duplicitous character or in other words someone pretending to be someone pretending,,. What is character and what is actor and what is intentional? Maybe this is a question that only Julian Bleach could answer.

    If I ever had any doubts as to the merit of this episode than the length this discussion would have laid them to rest and after reading through all the debates I feel as though I really need another rewatch.

    Cheers

    Janette

     

    #43846
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @pedant

    Everything – everything – Moffat writes is about the exploration of character.

    I’d agree with that one. He’s a very fine writer of dramatic character, which is not at all the same skill as portraying character in a novel. The script is the skeleton of characterisation; it’s meant to give the actors something they can build on.

    I’m not at the level of the series regulars in Doctor Who – if I ever got a part in Who it would be the character with two lines who dies horribly showing how the monster works. 😉 But every time we get an ‘X was acting out of character’ comment, I go and take a look at the back story. And, honestly, so far I have found the through line every single time. It’s always there. There’s always a reason for the character to be behaving like that. And unlike some writers (Joss Whedon comes to mind), Steven Moffat is always careful to tell his actors spoilery details about their character if he knows it should impact on the way they play things.

    So, yes. He explores character, and he seems to be very aware of what his actors need to do in order to do their part of the job: which is to communicate what that character is feeling and experiencing to the audience.

    #43847
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @purofilion

    And how come Moffat always looks well rested and bouncy?

    He recently said in an interview that they’d been able to afford to completely redo his writing room, so that it was now big enough for the boys to come into and be with him when they came home after school.

    This is, I suspect, the secret. While he’s working like crazy, he’s working at home – and basically as a family business. The boys are his beta readers for Who and his wife is his producer on Sherlock.

    #43849

    @janetteb

    Wouldn’t argue with that at all – the major point is that her actions where not plot-serving stupidity, or anything remotely like it, but deeply rooted in character and what happens to them.

    #43850
    bendubz11 @bendubz11

    @mudlark and anyone else interested. I ended up putting it on the standard spoiler thread

    #43851
    Charlie Cook @charlie-cook

    Posts arrive quicker than I can read them, so sorry if someone has already said this, but there have been suggestions that Clara might be a The Master. A character is only supposed to be able to coexist with themselves under certain conditions, not as a norm… Or has that time restriction gone now…

    #43852
    ichabod @ichabod

    @pedant   Clara saw the full power of the Time Lords not as a 3D artwork in the Under Gallery, but up close and personal – and felt tiny.

    Yes — she doesn’t go all outraged — “How dare you!” etc. — about being identified as “the puppy”.  Quite telling.  This isn’t a two-hander on a dizzying whirl of locations with her amazing star-man; this is the Very Great Big Leagues.

    #43856
    sunsetbear @sunsetbear

    what exactly is the bit about the daughter? I must’ve missed that…

    #43858
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @kharis

    What still bothers me is how is Clara born in her Claricle forms?

    No idea. 😀

    Seriously, what has always puzzled me is how Clara’s Mum also turns up for the Claricles. At least, we see Ellie Ravenswood (or the Victorian version thereof) with little Victorian Clara. And Oswin Oswald was dictating her diary to her Mum, as well.

    See, I can understand how leaping into the Doctor’s timeline can scatter infinite versions of yourself all over the universe. But how the heck do you drag your Mum along with you? It’s certainly a neat trick.

    I can’t help feeling that it somehow connected with Ellie’s ‘I will always find you’ line. Wherever the Claricles went, her mother always found her.

    @ichabod

    I wonder what arguments Moffat and Capaldi used to convince her to sign on for S9?

    The two traditional arguments are a) more money and b) an interesting plotline. Since this is the BBC, not US TV, we’re probably talking b). 🙂 My question would be ‘why did Steven Moffat want so badly to convince her to sign on for S9?’

    Jenna Coleman is a lovely and talented actress, and I’m very glad that her agent has been sharp enough to find her something both high profile and NOT science-fiction for her next role. But Companions aren’t actually that difficult to replace.

    So why was Steven Moffat so very keen to keep her on? Is there some plotline for S9 that absolutely needs the Companion to be Clara Oswald?

    Definitely a field for bonkers theories…

    #43860
    ichabod @ichabod

    @bluesqueakpip  The two traditional arguments are a) more money and b) an interesting plotline. Since this is the BBC, not US TV, we’re probably talking b). 🙂 My question would be ‘why did Steven Moffat want so badly to convince her to sign on for S9?’

    Then I’d guess she was promised a bang-up exit!  As for why, why not?  Capaldi clearly has enjoyed working with her and v.v., for starters, and you want to keep your lead player happy since you’re planning on keeping him around for a while.  With S9 the take-off for #12 as a fully regenerated, charged-up-and-ready-to-go Doctor, I think it was a good decision — a reward for viewers who hung in for S8 even though they weren’t keen on all the character exploration and somewhat chaotic psychological ruckus.  It’s enough to bust out with a Tardis team galloping off to adventure for S9, on the way to ending Clara’s run.

    Then S10 has a new starting gate: either the Doctor alone for a while, or taking on and getting used to a new companion.  I think it made good sense to keep her on for S9; now we’ll see how well they’ve made it work.

    #43863
    Anonymous @

    @kharis If you’re happy to go to Spoilers 2 thread, there are discussions there about the Claricles.

    @bluesqueakpip above says what I’m thinking too. Or rather -prompted me to think in this direction. Pip had these excellent ideas and has written about them really clearly. I always thought the claricle situation was based on a simple premise and it seems it’s not simple at all! Also, I must admit when I first saw Clara point Hartnell in the direction of the ‘correct’ Tardis I did think “huh? Is she a Time Lady now? I thought she could only be human!” and then I also thought “how is she born?”

    Frankly I was too nervous to admit all this on the Forum because I thought “gosh, everybody gets this. It must be so simple it’s staring at me in the face.” Turns out that a few other people were equally confused. Probably not that many, though 🙂

    Boy!

    How the heck is Clara born? The claricle Clara. I think she reanimates like the Tardis in this episode. I don’t know how, though, she’s not recognised after the Hartnell Doctor meets her.

    My idea is that Clara always works in the deep background. Generally, like Silence in the Library, Clara isn’t seen. But she helps to save him. In the Dalek episode where Rory and Amy end up on the cast-off Dalek planet that’s where the Doctor ‘meets’ Oswin. He meets her again as the governess and immediately recognises the phrase she uses. Then he starts to pick up the puzzle. He follows her and finds her. Until this moment I referred to this Clara as ‘Prime’ -but just because she was ‘born’ to normal parents, has a nanny job (kind of like the last one), can’t work computers doesn’t mean she wasn’t a claricle then too -in other words, still is.

    Yes, Missy picked her (how that is related confuses me!) but as @bluesqueakpip pointed out on this or another thread, the Clara we now see is brought home from the hospital and there are no pictures of her as baby-in-mother’s-arms-in-hospital. Usually, there’d be tons of these.

    So, does this mean, as @pedant has suggested, that Moffat likes his loops closed and so ultimately this Clara (who I’ve always seen as distinct from the claricles) isn’t distinct from them at all -isn’t a discrete character but one portion of the whole.

    A bit like the Confession Dial with its piece missing. Who knows if the Confession Dial is just the Doctor’s last will and Testament: if it is, does it contain pertinent information about Clara’s life and potential lives -or lost lives?

    #43864
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    My speculation the Doctor’s last will and testament is the location of the Hand of Omega. It was directed at Missy not Clara because knowledge of the Hand of Omega would be useless to Clara and would only endanger her life.

    The stealing of the Hand of Omega is why the Doctor had to leave Gallifrey in the first place.

    However the Hand of Omega will not be called the Hand of Omega, just as the Silver Nemesis was amplified and renamed the Moment. Having read this site, I now believe the BBC wants to avoid having the same problems with the Daleks and Davros as far as intellectual property claims go and therefore will recast everything from the Sylvester McCoy era to something different enough to own outright:

    http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Cartmel_Masterplan

    #43866
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @ichabod

    Then I’d guess she was promised a bang-up exit! As for why, why not?

    Yes, but that’s … boring now, isn’t it? Boring-ers. Blue boring-ers! 😉

    More seriously, she had a bang-up exit. Her potential exit in Death in Heaven was heartbreaking, and her other potential exit in Last Christmas was bitter-sweet. So from her point of view, I’d think it’s more than a bang-up exit; it’s some kind of show-off plot-line or series of stories.

    And it ties in to Clara’s ongoing storyline, somehow.

    That ‘hybrid’ jab of Missy’s – she flicks her eyes directly at the Doctor when she says it. Or is she looking directly at Clara?

    The way the scene is shot, the director has quite deliberately chosen to make it unclear.

    #43868
    ichabod @ichabod

    @bluesqueakpip  . . . she had a bang-up exit. Her potential exit in Death in Heaven was heartbreaking, and her other potential exit in Last Christmas was bitter-sweet. So from her point of view, I’d think it’s more than a bang-up exit; it’s some kind of show-off plot-line or series of stories.

    Well, that’ll do too, of course; though I meant “bang-up” literally — not a quiet exit like what was apparently planned for Last Xmas, but some suitable fireworks.  In any case, I look forward to finding out.

    Meantime, I am already missing Colony Sarf, and wishing Missy hadn’t shot the beschmeezis out of it.  I’d like to see it return, presenting as female this time (must be some lady snakes in there too, right?), with Medusa hair . . . and lipstick . . . ?  Borrowed from Missy?

    #43869
    ichabod @ichabod

    Drat.  Italics got away from me.

    #43870
    lisa @lisa

    @ichabod There’s a Mrs. Sarff that has democratically voted to hunt Missy
    down to avenge her late SO. As we speak the Mrs. S. was patiently lurking around
    and waiting for the moment when Missy was peaking again into her compact mirror.
    Then she wanted to use her Medusa wavy locks to turn Missy into glossy granite .
    But Missy used her vortex manipulator again!
    I’ve checked it out and that’s the rumor 😉

    #43871
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    I speculate the candidate(s) for the next companion are hiding in plain sight and has / have already been seen in the show. Guesses?

    A good and bad thing about Michelle Gomez as Missy is that her dialog with the Doctor or actually anyone else would be hard to sustain over an entire season of episodes. Imagine a full season of Missy and the Doctor traveling together in the Tardis having adventures. But the writers would probably keel over in exhaustion halfway through regardless of how comfortable their writing circumstances are.

    #43872
    Anonymous @

    @jphamlore

    Yes, I wasn’t fussed on the whole Cartmel Masterplan gobblepook.

    OK, the Hand of Omega discussed in the Dial. Without causing outrage, would this Hand of Omega be that interesting?

    So you’re suggesting that it’s possible there are two things happening: one, the Omega Hand as discussed in the Last Will and Testament and two, Something’s Up With Clara  – a potential Master, a claricle (still and again) or a Walking TimeBomb Dalek with nanonuts in her brain?

    Yeah?

    @charlie-cook

    Yes, I agree, I thought the Doctors came together for the 50th Anniversary during Special Circumstances: that Missy and Clara are together without any clues or weirdness therefore suggests Clara is no ‘other Master’ (or Mistress).

    I think.

    I believe there needs to be inherent logic even within the insane theories 🙂

    #43873
    Anonymous @

    @jphamlore

    I might suggest something that I like here. Generally, I found on this site, that people respond when you tag them in an attempt to include them in a conversation.

    What I find astounding (and so very different  to other Forums) is that, here, people will tend to approach another person’s theory and say “hey, that’s great. I like that. I disagree, potentially, with this, however.”

    That way, when a person ‘speaks’ people are inclined to respect or respond to those ideas. And specifically, too. When I was really young, I would talk for ages about MY idea and no-one ever said anything. I figured (and rightly) that it was because I wasn’t referring to other people’s ideas. As soon as I did, I received a lot of back and forths and two and fros… It works!

    So, on your comment about Missy and the Doctor -I totally agree. This could be a very exhausting proposition and so keeping them apart but for the occasional rendezvous is a good idea.

    I don’t necessarily think our news companion is hiding in plain sight, unless (no spoilers) it happens to be a person or creature in the trailer 🙂

    Kindest, puro

    #43874
    ichabod @ichabod

    @lisa   There’s a Mrs. Sarff that has democratically voted to hunt Missy down to avenge her late SO. 

    Thank you, Lisa!  So satisfying . . . cue Mrs. Sarf, please!  Or, maybe a little bit later on . . .

    #43875
    lisa @lisa

    @bluesqueakpip Perhaps the hybrid Missy is talking about is the Doctor himself?
    Remember in ‘The Power of Three’ the cubes cause the hearts of people over the whole Earth
    to stop. But one of the Doctors hearts stopped too. Maybe 1 of his hearts is human
    and the other is Galifreyan? It could be 1 clue that he is the hybrid. However I’ve
    seen other clues that make good inferences about Clara as hybrid. I put a few I could
    recall on post #43741 but I know that you know what they all are.
    I’m going with both are hybrids. Which might be why Missy couldn’t choose where to
    direct her words.

    #43876
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    @purofilion: I personally think what is scary about Missy isn’t that she’s crazy, but that she is only acting crazy. Both she and the Doctor are the only known Time Lords left in their universe with Gallifrey … somewhere else. Missy realized a bit earlier that regardless of their feelings, they eventually have to work together to move forward on some plan to re-create the Time Lords.

    So what I believe about Clara is that she is a plot by Missy to break the Doctor once and for all of his desire to travel with a human companion as opposed to Missy. Missy wants Clara to be the absolute limit in the good sense of what an ordinary human companion can be. Peak Clara and Doctor. And then of its own weight, perhaps not even with Missy’s direct intervention, it will all come crashing down. Clara like Icarus will fly too close to the Sun and her wings will melt off, and then she will fall and nothing the Doctor can do will save her.

    The Doctor I speculate has a totally different viewpoint because of the responsibility in his possession of the Hand of Omega which he stole when he originally left Gallifrey. The Hand of Omega can create a new race of beings who can control time and space out of anyone who operates it to capture the power of a singularity in a black hole at the moment of its creation in a supernova. The Doctor thought he might be dying at the hands of Davros, so he sent instructions to Missy on how to retrieve the Hand of Omega.

    But … and this part may never be part of the story … I speculate that the Doctor encoded the location of the Hand of Omega in a series of adventures that Missy would have to undergo as a treasure hunt. These adventures would hopefully force Missy to a viewpoint of other beings more in line with the Doctor’s.

    So that is why the Doctor and Clara have been apparently separated for long times even after Last Christmas when they seemed to happy to be reunited.

    Missy in her own way thinks she is saving the Doctor’s soul in order to save her people while the Doctor is plotting to save Missy’s. Is this not perhaps the one true remark Davros made to the Doctor, that everyone needs his or her own people to be whom one is willing to sacrifice anything to help? The difference between Missy and the Doctor is Missy sees only the Gallifreyans as being worthy of her people while the Doctor is more expansive.

    #43877
    Anonymous @

    @lisa

    Ah yes, “the hybrid.”

    I missed her looking at Clara. That is an enormous clue. Of something.

    She is a claricle/Clara -so then a claricle? Or some part of Gallifreyan life (after all told Hartnell which Tardis to use…: how did she get there? Why wearing Gallifreyan gear? Because she’s on Gallifrey I suppose…) mixed with human.

    Possibly that. As to whether she’s related to the Doctor I just don’t think so. She was sort of romantically thinking of the Smithy Doctor at one point, no? Even asking him as boyfriend to Christmas? Would that be odd? Normal? There are all sorts of reasons where in recent films some chick asks a gay fella to ‘act as her boyfriend’ to impress parents. Something Sarah Jessica ‘Arker would star in possibly.

    #43878
    Anonymous @

    @jphamlore

    Thank you for explaining that. I just never knew what the hand of omega was. I should have googled it and then you wouldn’t have had to answer my question -but sincere thanks.

    I can see now exactly why this would be essential to the Doctor.

    Also, I agree: Missy is trying on ‘parts’ like an actor trying on a costume. The Doctor can do that too at various times. She will exploit Clara and then carry out a further plan which may well cost Clara her life: and in the process the Doctor will blame himself or perhaps Clara may indulge a whim to do something quite mad….and the Doctor will be truly angry with her (and not blame himself and Missy will smile gleefully but quietly): Do as YOU ARE TOLD”

    And she does not.

    This leads to her death perhaps? Or something worse? Hmm. I like the way you’re thinking.

     

    #43880
    janetteB @janetteb

    Still on the Clara issue, something else which I have noted is that she is dressed very somberly, in muted tones with a shapeless jumper over her dress and thick heals. Not more stilettos. This is essentially a Clara who is still going through the mourning process. She has been through quite a tough emotional journey and has understandably been changed by those experiences.

    @jphamlore There have been any number of possible new assistants since Capaldi took over but my guess it will be someone new and that the new assistant will not start until next series.

    Cheers

    Janette

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