The Woman Who Fell To Earth

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  • #64360

    LindaLee has spoken…

    #64363
    Anonymous @

    @kharis Hah, I feel very similarly. I didn’t connect with Amy, I don’t know if it was her personality or what. The way she treated Rory didn’t help.

    I was hoping also that Capaldi would regenerate into McGann, but as you say, under other showrunner would be great but my hopes aren’t very high with Chibnall so better not. The Movie was very lacklustre, it didn’t feel like Doctor Who and I agree with the people who say that Paul McGann was the best thing in it. He has developed greatly on audio.

    #64365
    Arbutus @arbutus

    Hello, lovely people! I’ve missed you all but that’s entirely on me. Have thought of you often during these months of fire, flood, hurricane, and political turmoil in so many parts of the world. I hope everyone is fundamentally well. *heart*

    Okay, new Who, new Doctor, new companions! I enjoyed this and I think it’s all going to be just fine. I like this Improvisational Mechanic Doctor (as opposed to CapDoc the Scholar), and love that the female Doctor can be techie as well as understanding. Regarding the new empathy, in her “I’m the Doctor” speech, she made a pointed statement that you can choose how you change, keep the core and make yourself into the person you want to be? (Have to listen to that bit again.)

    As to the story, I thought it was fine. Agree that the alien wasn’t all that scary, but I don’t look for that kind of scare to be honest. Now, I’m terrified of heights, so there were 10 or so minutes that were pretty hard for me to watch. And it will take me awhile to forgive CC for the loss of Ryan’s nan, she was my favourite and would have made a great companion. Although, from a writing point of view, Graham has a lot more room to grow as a character. I hope that he will carry on trying to live up to his love for Grace, and show everyone that you don’t have to be a cute young thing to be a companion! He, as well as the others, haven’t yet become companions! But the seeds are clearly there.

    I appreciated that they have (at this point, at least) come with the Doctor by accident. It would have been a huge leap away from the Doctor’s recent experiences for her to have invited them, while barely still knowing them, to share her very dangerous life (especially with the reminder of Grace right in front of her). Nor did they ask to come, which doesn’t always feel believable. (Donna’s arc with the Doctor always felt right to me, because she turned him down the first time, quite rightly really.)

    Time will tell about the new showrunner, but I get an early sense that CC might give us some nice, human-scale characters. I like the normalcy, everyday quality of the challenges the new companions face, more relatable in some ways than those of Clara or Amy. (Even Rose; “The love of my life is a 900-year-old alien” is not a challenge that resonates for me!)

    One small thing: I was reminded of Tennant’s opener when the crane operator pushed the alien off the crane, and the Doctor said “You had no right.”

    I’ll have to save sensible comment on the music for after a rewatch, was too focused on other things!

    Btw, did anyone else see the Oxford Dictionary’s word of the day? Dicrotic: denoting a pulse in which a double beat is detectable for each beat of the heart.  🙂

     

    #64372
    Notime @notime

    Thank you for the explanation @kharis.  I suspected as much but wasn’t really all that certain.

    Not sure what is my favorite part of the episode….I liked how the Doctor shouted at the hunter to stand still and then bolted in pursuit when it fled.   Got a kick out of that wouldn’t be the first instinct reaction for us mortals.

     

    Early on…..the thought crossed my mind that the transport pod was the TARDIS regenerating, because of its color.  That concept ignited a half dozen side stories in my head.  Glad the story line didn’t travel down that path though…

    #64373
    Kharis @kharis

    @notime Interesting transport theory.  Seems you have that “theories more insane” moto down already!  Cheers. (:

    #64374
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @Tempusfugit and @kharis

    I liked Segun Akinola’s music, so there you are. And, much as I loved Murray Gold’s music (I own the CDs), by the end of Peter Capaldi’s run I really was feeling as if he’d said what he had to say for Doctor Who.

    I’m with @thane16 and @pedant – it’s going to take more than one episode for the new composer to find his Who sound. Gold’s music for Series 1 AG is noticeably different in style to the later series – for that matter, his initial theme for Capaldi was dropped once he saw more of Capaldi’s Doctor. At the moment, Segun Akinola’s choices seem interesting, and there were definitely motifs that I liked, so I’m happy to be on board while we see what he does.

    42 is much better on a rewatch, funnily enough. I remember watching it the first time and thinking ‘not very good’, then I watched it a second time and it really did seem much better. It might be that the pacing was a bit too frenetic, so when you know the plot you can relax and realise there’s a lot of good character work. Especially David Tennant, with a rare chance to show the Doctor scared spitless.

    Dinosaurs on a Spaceship is always tagged in my mind as ‘definitely for the kids’, but it was fun. The robots didn’t work, but I think that was a ‘production’ rather than ‘script’ failure.

    #64375
    fanofthedoctor @fanofthedoctor

    I have seen every episode of Doctor Who. I was so elated when this Dr. Who 13 days of getting to see and record over 60 + episodes building up to the 11 th season with the new Doctor. Sorry to say I was very disappointed , It was to me boring but I am going to watch it for 10  episodes to see if I like it. I wasn’t convinced that Jodie pulled off being the doctor but I will give her a chance. To be honest Matt Smith is my favorite as well as David Tennant. I liked most of the doctors although some were so so. Maybe I’m not ready for a female  Doctor or maybe I didn’t care much for the plot or writing but Loving this show for so many years I must give it a chance. I’m a person who really dislikes change so when the doctors changed it took at minimum of 8 to 10 episodes with the new Doctor before I started to accept them. Again Sorry if I have offended anyone but there was no better team than Doctor ( Matt Smith ) Amy Pond And Rory and their families. I do love Clara as well and Rose tooooo. Don’t want to get long in the tooth so I’ll close by saying I will give the 11 th season agood watch. ciao for now. Fan of The Doctor..

    #64376
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Okay, what did I think of the episode as a whole?

    The good points: Sheffield came across as a real place, rather than a backdrop. Likewise, Chibnall wrote to his strengths, with a lot of vivid characterisation. Salad Guy was especially brilliant, but Graham getting location data on the alien from his old mates on the buses was a very nice touch.

    The death of Grace means that the Doctor’s new friends start their run realising that they, personally, really could get killed. That removes the ‘offering a kid a sweet shop’ aspect of AG Who Companionship, and also means that there’s a plausible reason for the characters to walk away (if they’re still alive) at the end of the actors’ contracts. 🙂 It may also be another aspect of Chibbers writing to his strength – he’s really, really good at looking at the impact of unexpected death on the people left behind, and it’ll be interesting to see if Grace’s death doesn’t get tucked away in backstory, but reverberates throughout this series.

    I liked that this Doctor’s response to ‘no sonic’ was ‘I can build a new one’. There’s an air of ‘The Time War is over’ and that this Doctor has finally come through the entire ‘genocide and war trauma’ and out the other side. Whatever and whoever is lost is remembered, honoured – and she will go on and rebuild her life, not just survive. She also seems a lot more honest than previous incarnations – I have a plan. Really? Well, I will have by the time I get to the top.

    The cinematography was amazing. I’ve only just noticed that, in the scene where all the main cast are staring at the hole in the fence, the soon-to-die Grace is in semi-darkness while every other member of the cast is brightly lit. I suspect that there are other little bits like that.

    The less good points: traditional regeneration monster – Samuel Oatley did a nice job, but Tim Shaw was very much the type of monster who’s only really a problem because the Doctor’s regenerating. Normally, she’d have handled him with one hand while fighting off an attack of Cybermen with the other. 🙂 To be fair, this second-rateness was signposted by the script. He’s no big warrior leader; he has to cheat to even have a chance of passing his people’s test. He’s not even a great warrior who fights other warriors – more a serial killer of worried brothers, random drunks and kindly grandfathers. A murderous, cheating bully.

    I think a lot of people are very happy with Jodie Whittaker; I can see signs that I will be, but at the moment her performance doesn’t seem to have quite gelled for me. That may well be because she was playing up the ‘confused’ part of the regeneration.

    Tosin Cole seemed to be struggling a bit with the accent – however, I did notice that they’d included some ‘London’ type things in his bedroom, so possibly the reason Ryan only knew Yaz from primary school was that he’d gone to secondary school in London before moving back to live with Nan in Sheffield. That said, I see why they cast him, accent or no accent. He’s going to be very good as the dyspraxic Ryan, I think.

    #64377
    Anonymous @

    <span class=”useratname”>@bluesqueakpip</span> agree with the alien. Totally forgettable. I hope for more originality and inventiveness in the future.

    I’m still on the fence about Jodie. I liked her, she has great energy and the right amount of quirkiness but let’s see how she performs in the moments of gravitas. I need to know more about the companions to form an opinion. I’m not sure about the fact that Graham has cancer. Not to sound as a dick but I don’t watch Docor Who for realistic drama. The RTD era did very well in having rounded characters and a domestic approach while Moffat was more fairytale-like and fantasy. I just don’t want a ton of angst. I didn’t watch Torchwood because it didn’t appeal to me and I just hope this won’t be Torchwood 2

    #64378
    Cath Annabel @cathannabel

    <span class=”useratname”>@bluesqueakpip</span> Yeah Sheffieeeeeeld!  Re JW, yes, there was the whole regen confusion thing going on which will pass as it has done for all of them, but meantime there was more than enough there to make me hers.

    Funny you mention that ‘I’ve got a plan – well, I will have’ as being different cos I thought it echoed things that other Doctors have said (eg Matt Smith ‘Hold tight and pretend it’s a plan’, one of my favourite quotes). It was one of the things that chimed as Doctorly for me anyway.

    One thing that struck me was her confidence in the people she was working with to beat Tim Shaw – as if she could see their capabilities and their courage even when they couldn’t.  I don’t recall getting quite that feeling in previous New Doc/New Companions (sorry, Friends) encounters.

    I did rather like that the monster, whilst being brutal, was a bit crap. They tend to be invincible till suddenly they aren’t – as soon as she’d sussed that he was cheating, because he wasn’t up to the job, he was toast (or possibly a kebab with salad), but it gave him some character (not in the sense that he had any redeeming traits, obvs) – he had strength but nothing else, not even the collective purpose of a Cyberman or Dalek, as he was only out for himself, not his planet, his species or whatever.  That was interesting, I thought.

    Will have to watch again, to listen more intently so I can comment on the soundtrack!

    Once again it’s bloody brilliant to have all you lot back @arbutus @jimthefish @pedant @miapatrick @juniperfish et al…

    #64379
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @everyone, one interesting thing in this episode is that she took them with her by accident. It makes sense, because Graham most probably wouldn’t have been willing to go, the other two possibly would have. I think I remember that in the first ever episode, the human companions didn’t come willingly? Of course 13 didn’t deliberately kidnap them, but there’s some nice echos: three companions, a grandfather and grandchild (sort of, but people do insist that the existence of Susan isn’t evidence of the Doctor’s sexual past), companions who didn’t actually chose to go with The Doctor.

    Both Graham and The Doctor are recently widowed, in a sense (The Husbands Of River Song did feel like a natural ending, and Missy actually gave her condolences in the last series.) So I agree with @bluesqueakpip that Grace’s death might well run through the episodes. And also about the accent. A teenager might very well end up changing accents at secondary school, it is a time of intense self consciousness and wanting to fit in.

    Oh as to Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, that episode broke my heart (poor Tricey. I just read him as a big slobbery dog. I might have a problem.) Plus it had Rory’s dad.

    #64380
    janetteB @janetteb

    Finally got to watch the episode… and loved it. There was one really scary bit, when she leapt up from the sofa and the alarm was going off. It took a few seconds before everyone in the room realised that the alarm was outside and not part of the show it was timed so perfectly.

    Jodie Whittaker is good. I was worried at first but within ten minutes fully accepted that she is the Doctor. She captures the character. I loved the opp shop costume hunt. It looked so like one of my own local opp shops. I recall that someone speculated on the costume being something she picked up at Oxfams or the like back when the costume was discussed.

    It certainly has a very different vibe. At times it felt more like an episode of Fringe. It does have an “older” feel.

    I suspect that each episode might have a cliff hanger ending, in BG style but the episodes themselves will be single stories. Time will tell.

    I did not notice the music so it was not intrusive which was good. Will pay more attention next watching.

    So looking forward to re watching with the boys as R.2 & 3 were not present tonight. We have jelly babies, jammy dodgers and fish fingers left over for the family viewing and we won’t have to worry about timely or untimely alarms..

    Cheers

    Janette

     

    #64385
    teak @teak

    Two holes in the show. 1. Finding the bike so fast. They where on a train, how long did it take to get back? 2. Learning to ride a bike on a hill. No, training wheels and a smaller bike at first. 3. How did the Doctor survive the fall?

    #64386
    Whisht @whisht

    Hi all – great to see some new members (howdy!) and great to see some familiar names!

    For me, I enjoyed the episode but like most, the monster was simply that – a monster – so slightly dull. I did worry that his killing of several people was there to simply suggest jeopardy but then again that’s what monsters do.

    I liked Jodie and think she’ll evolve into an enjoyable Doctor.
    I kinda hope the speech writing improves beyond “I’m the Doctor, sorting out fair play throughout the universe.” as it felt a tad weak as a manifesto, but on rewatching (and reading the far more insightful people here) I do appreciate the script writing more.

    So, all in all some nice bits, companions I might get intrigued by and a Doctor I can say “yep, she’s the Doctor”.

    Job done for an opener and now onto the evolution (which Chibnell explicitly had within the same speech which was a tad more interesting than the manifesto!)

    [oh – and yes, loved the theme tune although the drumming was a little ‘militaristic’ to my ears rather than the ‘hoof-beat’ that I hear in the original if that makes any sense!]

    #64387
    Starla @starla

    Hi all!

    I LOVED it! My friend and I saw it at the cinema and gosh it was vibrant and beautiful on the big screen. Great atmosphere too.

    Jodie is undeniably The Doctor. I am just so excited by the fact that she has zero preoccupation with being female, and is 100% focused on the task at hand – saving people, helping everyone and generally being awesome.

    Yes the monster was a bit ‘meh’, but the focus was really on setting the scene for the new companions, which they did rather well… I felt an emotional connection to them by the end.

    Fave bits included:

    – The Doctor realising her legs aren’t quite as long as they used to be!

    – Making her new sonic in the workshop – loving her getting hectic with the welding gear!

    – Drunk guy throwing salad at Tim Shaw!!!

    – “Tim Shaw” 😂😂😂

    – Whoopsie daisy – we are floating in space, but where’s the TARDIS? Lol

    Loved the whole thing… can’t wait for next week.

    Oh… and I made a personal decision to watch no previews or ads for each week as I want it to be a surprise- old school style. I loved Capaldi, but ruined it for myself by being to invested in previews and bonkerising. I’m just letting the show be a show and enjoy the zany ride!

    #64389
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @teak

    No, they’re not holes.
    1. The bike is in a tree. Ryan knows perfectly well where it is, but can’t retrieve it. Chibnall may be basing this bit on a rather well known incident on the A6, where it was a car that came off the road where the edge is a bit on the vertical side – and went straight into the top of a tree.

    Stayed there for months; no one could figure out how to get the car out of the tree.

    Dunno which train it’s supposed to be, but they could easily have got delayed by signals, or something.

    2. Guessing you’ve never been to Sheffield and the Peak District? There’s a lot of flat ground – which is mostly on top of hills. 🙂 The bit Ryan was practising on was perfectly flat – and more importantly, a long way away from anyone who knew him. Yes, trainer wheels would probably help him ride the bike, but they wouldn’t help him learn to ride a bike without trainer wheels – he’s dyspraxic. A dyspraxic who’s really embarrassed to admit that he can’t do a simple thing like ride an adult sized bike without trainer wheels.

    3. I believe the general conclusion is that she only survived the fall because she was regenerating at the time. Her cells were full steam ahead on damage repair anyway, and the damage from the fall was just a bit more extra work. Remember, the Tennant Doctor was able to regrow a hand because it got chopped off while he was still regenerating. [This didn’t arise with the Smith Doctor because he managed to keep a grip on the TARDIS.]

    #64390
    thane16 @thane16

    @tempusfugit

    I’m not sure about the fact that Graham has cancer.

    OK. Sorry, why?

    I look a million dollars and I’m half dead. No kidding. I have a paramedic watching this as I type and he’s performing a truly hideous job/procedure (these doods get paid far too little).  Yesterday I was in the garden for 4 hours. Last night I had some peeps over for dessert. By 9 pm I felt the world had ended. Again. @pedant is right. I’m a walking medical emergency. So, yep, Graham had cancer but he’s in remission. 🙂

    And as @arbutus and @bluesqueakpip  mentioned Graham has plenty of time to evolve.  I think I wrote something about that on page 1: “teeth” is as much a metaphor as having a ‘gross scare.’ I don’t think Moffat is the only one capable of twists and metaphors. 🙂

    @whisht absolutely: it was quite ‘militaristic.’ Effect could be removed by dropping the echo and ‘thinning’ down the width of the pitch. Basically a bongo drum with limited echo-creep would work – in fact it’s better played (or drummed) than synthesised. It’s easy to ‘stop’ the sound with your other hand. If that makes sense.

    @arbutus waving with joy!

    @cathannabel

    I did rather like that the monster, whilst being brutal, was a bit crap. They tend to be invincible till suddenly they aren’t – as soon as she’d sussed that he was cheating, because he wasn’t up to the job, he was toast 

    Brilliant!

    @bluesqueakpip  you mentioned the fact Tennant re-grew his hand. I mentioned this myself elsewhere too. I’m getting the impression that many people could benefit from scanning some posts? I guess I find it frustrating that simple questions like “how can the Doctor have no cuts & bruises?” require complex answers when it’s established in-Who for decades. Ah well!  I understand that’s really my problem -a lack of patience! Your patience is enviable. But then…..hideous medical procedure…so therefore I have none….(or very little and so need a quick slap).  😀

    @starla me too! I have the same love for it. More, even, than the Christmas Invasion with Tennant.

    @notime Great theories about purple-vase-of-the-’80s-thingy. I too initially thought it was a regenerating TARDIS.

    Kindest, Puro (and bloomin’ great to see so many regs and so many newbies. Long may you all stay). And @fatmaninabox I hope your complicated computer situation will solve itself. Throwing it around the room COULD help. I’ve done this myself but sadly not in an attempt to fix anything. I’m like drunken salad guy right now…

    #64391
    Cath Annabel @cathannabel

    @teak @bluesqueakpip  The train was located quite precisely – it was between Hathersage and Grindleford, en route to Sheffield, when the Gathering Coil attacked.  Presumably the bike riding practice was in or near Hathersage (wherever it was actually filmed) and I agree, the location was chosen due to the low risk of Ryan being spotted by his peers and shamed.  I have been stuck on a train in that very spot, many years ago.  No alien attack, just a broken down train in midwinter but the lights went out and there was no heating so we were all seriously considering jumping down on to the tracks, health & safety be damned…  Locals were very chuffed at the name-check – one of my friends for whom Grindleford is the local station said that ‘previously the most exciting thing to happen there is them NOT serving mushrooms at the station cafe’.

    I think the idea of someone on the team who has already faced a potentially terminal illness and is ‘in remission’, ie not cured, not safe, but well – for now – is dramatically interesting and powerful.  That tension of being between the two states (@thane16 Puro I know you know) and how you personally respond to that – live life as if you’re immortal, live life as if you’re made of fine bone china that could shatter at any moment, live life moment to moment somehow holding both/all possibilities together…  On a personal level I kind of wish they hadn’t gone there, as my kid brother has recently had a diagnosis of inoperable cancer and I am hoping, really hoping, that if they write Graham out at some point, he gets to go out facing up to some alien terror – living up to Grace – rather than back on the onc. ward.  But either way, I hope he gets to have some awesome moments in between.

    #64392
    Anonymous @

    @thane16 sorry I didn’t want to offend anyone. Simply I don’t want for it to be too angsty. A familiar of mine had cancer some years ago and I suffered a lot in that period of my time. I have become very sensitive with this and I can’t stand watching people suffering cancer on tv since I use it as an escape.

    #64393
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @cathannabel

    The train was located quite precisely – it was between Hathersage and Grindleford, en route to Sheffield, when the Gathering Coil attacked.

    I missed the train stations! I think I’m so used to ‘fake place names’ that I missed the point that they were real names.

    Sorry to hear about your kid brother – it can be tough when fiction touches that closely on reality. I still struggle to watch Father’s Day because my Dad, like Rose’s, died in a stupid accident.

    @puro

    I don’t think Moffat is the only one capable of twists and metaphors.

    Exactly. I think we’re going to have to get used to looking for new clues about the themes and for different types of metaphors under Chibnall, but judging by this first episode, they’re going to be there.

    Far from being ‘just for kids,’ there were some very adult themes of loss and death going through the script, with many of the dead being firmly connected to their family. I have a suspicion that this iteration of Who is going to be more character orientated (possibly ‘Doctor’s character’) and more concerned with after-effects in the sense of rebuilding, contrasting with Moffat’s more philosophical ‘What is a good man?’ and ‘time paradox’ approaches. The early signal, to me, was the Doctor attending Grace’s funeral – which was something he very rarely does, so notoriously so that Bishop Octavian actually called him out on his ‘just walk away’ habit of leaving others to do the emotional clean-up.

    But she does. She didn’t just walk away. She stays for the funeral, then tells her new friends that she has to go and find her TARDIS. Interesting.

    #64394
    Darth Valaryn @troygorsline

    I don’t know if this was answered already, but I am brand new to the forum and didn’t get to all the posts.

    In the episode, the Doctor – when asked if she needs to go to the ER – stated she something along the lines of she doesn’t go anywhere with only letters.

    Is this typical Doctor wit? I mean, isn’t the TARDIS only letters?
    Am I overthinking?

    #64395
    toinfinityandbepond @toinfinityandbepond

    or UNIT?

    #64396
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @troygorsline and @toinfinityandbepond

    Both the ER and UNIT, I’d guess. Maybe, in her confused state, the TARDIS as well.

    The Seventh Doctor regenerated into the Eighth when an ER doctor called Grace presumed his double heart beat was fibrillation.

    I also took it as a ‘we’re not going near UNIT this series’ quip. Whether she’s also ‘not going anywhere with only letters’ because she’s going to be chasing after the TARDIS all series is something that remains to be seen.

    #64397
    janetteB @janetteb

    @troysgorline I wondered about that too but think it is more a funny throwaway line.  Still I don’t expect we will be encountering UNIT in this series.

    We re watched last night with the family. Second son, R.2, was impressed. His only criticisms were that there were several cut scenes that needed more lead in. He liked the Doctor and companions. The story was a bit ordinary but that was really only the mechanism to introduce the new team.

    I only made one note, “Ryan’s Dad?”. That conversation was unnecessary, in what was otherwise a fairly tight script and so I suspect that is has some significance. I just hope it will be more interesting than “he and his Dad are reconciled at the end”.

    cheers

    Janette

    (still to read through comments. Time as usual being in very short supply.)

     

    #64398
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @janetteb

    I agree that there’s something significant beyond not wanting to book an actor. 🙂 What did strike me, upon reflection, is how very like the Doctor Ryan’s Dad sounds.

    I don’t mean in a ‘Ryan’s the Doctor’s son’ sort of way; just the unreliable/bottles funerals/possibly travels around a lot part – yet in this new regeneration, the Doctor is here for Ryan, is at the funeral, is back in the parental role that he was fulfilling in 1963.

    And that connects with her taking Ryan, Yaz and Graham with her by accident. His companions since Donna have either died or had their lives irrevocably changed. But she had no intention of doing that to this bunch, not when Grace had already died.

    #64399
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    … though it would be funny if Ryan were the Doctor’s son, because that would mean he was complaining about his Dad not turning up when his Dad couldn’t – and his now-Mum was standing right beside him. 😈

    #64400
    TranslatorCircuit @translatorcircuit

    I’ve noticed something in this episode which seems to be impossible, so I wonder if anyone can explain it.

    As we all know from past regenerations, The Doctor’s hair can change colour, can become curly if it was straight, or vice versa. Hair is made of DNA, although hair and nails are made of dead cells.

    One thing that doesn’t change during regeneration is the clothes, because they’re not part of The Doctor’s body, so they have to be changed by removing them and putting on different clothes. Just after the latest regeneration, The Doctor’s ring fell off. That Doctor wasn’t wearing any other jewellery AFAIK.

    Near the end of “The Woman Who Fell To Earth”, THe Doctor’s left ear is clearly shown with two earrings, which both require piercings. I’ve seen this before in publicity photos, but now that I’ve seen the episode, I must ask the following question. How did those earrings and the piercings for them get there?!

    #64402
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @translatorcircuit, I suppose if we can rationalise a haircut, we could rationalise piercings? Alternatively, she stopped off at Clares on the way to the charity shop.

    #64403
    janetteB @janetteb

    @bluesqueakpip Now that is an idea, Ryan could be River’s son. We are told his mother is dead however that would make Grace the Doctor’s mother which does not really work, not unless Chibnell is going to revive the Doctor as half human or reveal that Grace is really a Timelord. Either of course is possible and both, particularly the later, would be fun ideas.

    @translatorcircuit. I thought nothing of it, other than, actor has piercings, but those piercings were rather highlighted weren’t they. Maybe another clue or hint to something.

    cheers

    Janette

     

    #64404
    Mudlark @mudlark

    @troygorsline

    It is possible that the Doctor, in mid regeneration and still a bit confused, thought that anything referred to by an acronym, even A&E*, sounded worryingly bureaucratic.

    More probably, though, it was just an off-hand way of dismissing the suggestion without having to go into lengthy explanations.  Apart from the fact that the doctor she said she was looking for wasn’t a medic, she would not want doctors examining her because it might lead to some awkward questions about her unusual physiology, as happened during the earlier regeneration which @bluesqueakpip referred to above.

    @translatorcircuit

    Presumably, as @miapatrick suggested, she decided to have her ears pierced when she was looking for her new outfit.  How she paid for all this is another matter. Maybe her new friends supplied the money, or maybe the 12th Doctor was carrying sufficient cash in his coat pocket 🙂

    *Accident and Emergency, the British equivalent of ER

    #64405
    Mudlark @mudlark

    @TempusFugit

    It is understandable that you feel upset. Some of us here are old enough to have experienced the deaths of several of those we love – parents, other relatives, close friends – whether from cancer or other causes and sometimes in very distressing circumstances.

    Like @cathannabel, though, I saw Graham’s situation differently. He has cancer but he is in remission and, although he may be living on borrowed time, it seems that he chose to use that time to live as full a life as possible, starting by marrying the nurse he fell in love with; and this is surely the more important message. Who knows, The Tardis, once the Doctor has succeeded in finding it, may contain or be able to manufacture the means of effecting a complete cure.

    What is of far greater concern to him is the death of his wife, and even in the aftermath of this traumatic event he chooses to dwell on the wonderful person she was and on how she enriched his life, rather than on his own trauma. I have a suspicion that this may be important later on.

    As for escapism, to paraphrase J R R Tolkien in response to criticism of his works of fantasy, it rather depends on what you are escaping from and to.  Doctor Who is entertaining, it’s fun, it offers thrills and chills aplenty but, like all good fiction and drama, at its best it has always addressed real and important issues through the medium of adventures in historic, futuristic or fantastical contexts. In this case, as @bluesqueakpip says, the themes underpinning the episode were love and loss, and these have been an almost constant undercurrent since the renewal of the show 13 years ago. How could it be otherwise, whether we consider things from the Doctor’s point of view or from that of those whose lives he touches? During successive incarnations he/she has lived over 2000 years with the prospect of many more to come, and many of those years have been spent among comparatively ephemeral beings, knowing that he will outlive them all and sooner or later lose everyone who travels with him in the Tardis, just as they, if they survive, will see him move on and be lost to them.

    #64406
    Anonymous @

    And what about hair dye? Her roots are clearly darker, the Doctor regenerates with the hair dyed 😂

    #64407
    TranslatorCircuit @translatorcircuit

    @Tempusfugit yes I noticed the dark roots as well. Not only that, but there’s now even a 13th Doctor doll at The Forbidden Planet with dark roots! This indicates it’s intentional, but I don’t know why.

    #64408
    Anonymous @

    @mudlark thank you. I hadn’t seen your post. I suppose you are right and it’s better to watch it with a positive attitude

    #64410
    Arbutus @arbutus

    After second viewing, I have a few more thoughts. I liked the soundtrack just fine. The pulsating, percussive, old-school music throughout the opening scenes did a great job of keeping the suspense up, without intruding too much. I loved those few beats of DW upon the appearance of the Doctor, before she was distracted by the problem behind her! I liked that it tended to be understated, taking second place to our discovery of all the new characters. No memorable themes stood out, but it’s too early for that yet, with a Doctor and companions who have not yet become all they will be.

    I agree with @bluesqueakpip and @cathannabel about the mediocrity of Tim Shaw’s character, and I liked it. On the one hand, we get villains like the Master, so intricately painted in their weaknesses as well as their strengths. Then, all too often, the more “monster” styled aliens are not shown the same way. I loved that Tim Shaw was a minor player among his own people, a cheater and a bully (anyone else see a possible metaphor there?).

    I saw lots of earlier incarnations in different snatches of dialogue. One that I particularly liked was her groan of frustration and the words, “I hate empty pockets!” It felt very Twelve-like. I also saw moments that reminded me of Ten and Eleven, Five, and Three. But as lots of you have said, there are some very clear contrasts to Twelve. I thought her ready use of personal names was very anti-Capaldi!

    Liked the scenic opening. The light was gorgeous. I agree with those that liked the strong sense of place throughout this. This is something that I always prefer to see (nothing more disappointing than a story set in, say, NYC, where you don’t get any actual sense of being there!).

    I think we can all agree that “Salad Guy” was brilliant. Because haven’t we all seen Salad Guy in some form? Yesterday, in fact, I saw his equivalent, Singing Beer Guy, while waiting for the bus. Dude was absolutely nailing “Cover of the Rolling Stone”. We had a chat about the classics, and he had a bit of a sad over how many people have died (“even the young good ones are gone”), before remembering that we still have the Rolling Stones and Rod Stewart. 🙂

    I liked that after his Nan’s death, there was no magic moment when Ryan was suddenly able to ride the bike.

    I liked this bit: “This is exciting – not exciting, what do I mean? Worrying.” Funny, I thought, because of course, she probably did find it exciting, as well as worrying.

    I like her matter-of-factness. Not unkind, but not overly emotional. “Really sorry— not good news.” Then the technical explanation.

    I like the Doctor’s description of regeneration, it helps us to understand why the Doctor is less and less keen to go through it.

    @thane16   Back at you—actually flapping with happiness! 🙂

    #64411
    nerys @nerys

    Sorry to be so late chiming in. I was away in the States, visiting my family (and witnessing what seems to be the usual political mayhem these days). My 91-year-old father is having some health issues, so it was necessary to be away. I didn’t get to watch the season premiere until tonight. My husband and I are in agreement: We like her!

    Jodie Whittaker was wonderful. I enjoyed her as the Doctor, liked the companions (was sad about Nan), loved the reboot (similar to the radical shift in style that arrived with Matt Smith) and am looking forward to seeing what this season brings. The only problem I had with Whittaker’s Doctor is the same problem I have with every regeneration: getting used to the new actor’s take on the role. So much is similar, yet so much is different because each actor brings a different interpretation to the Doctor. Having a new showrunner creates a more marked transition. But even as things change, much stays the same, and I am confident the magic of Doctor Who is in good hands.

    #64412

    Couple of passing thoughts on third (or possibly 4th, can’t remember) watch:

    @thane16 @whisht

    I thought the closing music more industrial (steel town) than military. The drums had a metalness to them, and fit in with the new mechanically-minded Doctor.

    Also, I think the burst we got when JW stood up for the first time is from the opening theme (ie the closing theme is not The theme. Much heavier, and kind of awesome, if I’m right).

    @thetinker

    Definitely no hint as to what was happening the the red crystal in Ryan’s hand at the start (possible: dropped story line that they forgot to reshoot for)

    Re the deaths: credit to Chibbers: with the possible exception of the train driver, he made sure none of them were redshirts (and even she was specifically not killed by the coil).

    Working theory: The Tardis is not awol but is leading the Doctor somewhere she needs to be, by a route she needs to take.

    Also, those who watched the trailer can see the much more obvious solution for how they get out of space than the Tardis protection field. And that’s as close to spoilerage as I am getting here!

    Oh, and @juniperfish – you’re post-Freudian observation was all over twitter when the sonic was revealed, so no – not just you!

    #64414
    nerys @nerys

    How she paid for all this is another matter. Maybe her new friends supplied the money, or maybe the 12th Doctor was carrying sufficient cash in his coat pocket 🙂

    I’m pretty sure that right at the end, as she settled on her outfit, she asked her companions if they had any cash, because she had none.

    #64415
    janetteB @janetteb

    @nerys Yes I caught that too. She did ask for cash.

    @mudlark yes the theme was very much about loss and how we handle that and I think Ryan’s loss of his grandmother and the absent father will be an ongoing “concern” of this series. There may be no ongoing story arc as such but I think there will be ongoing themes and character development arcs. I have not seen much of Chibnell’s work other than his Dr Who stories but the little short about Amy and Rory’s son and Rory’s Dad indicates a commitment to the characters and an interest in what becomes of them post story. I gather that characterisation is also one of the strengths of Broadchurch.

    I loved the emphasis on the importance of pockets in the episode which was really the main nod to the gender change. The Doctor may have changed gender but still needs pockets just as much.. An excellent point I thought.

    Just to give the reference to Sheffield steal relevance to the younger generation, while watching the episode at home, I found a Sheffield steal bread knife and brandished it about.

    Also not relevant to anything but I really loved the opening scene, the Peaks at “golden hour”. I discovered the “wild and untamed beauty” of the Peaks a few years ago while touring with the family. What to me is so surprising is that tucked away in the middle of industrial England, just a few miles from places like Sheffield, is this wonderful wilderness. In Australia we are used to travelling hundreds of miles without seeing any variation in landscape. Even trees and fences become novelties in the outback.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #64416
    Notime @notime

    Did the UK viewers get an intro segment?   We didn’t get one over here in the States.  :(.

    I look forward to those….

    #64417
    ichabod @ichabod

    @pedant, quoting @kharis  Every show a self-contained story” sounds to me like a return to 100% “monster of the week” and no need to bother staying for the end, because there’s no chance of failure, and everyone ends up exactly as they started so the next “self-contained story” can toddle on without any continuity with what came before.

    That was actually me, talking not about the intro episode, in which people will change because the Doctor’s arrival sharply challenges the normality of their lives, and they have to react, but about what Chibnal said several times about the show as a whole — no story arcs, no multi-ep stories, thus monster of the week, which as often the format of individual episodes before Moffat showed up.  And it was supposition, made before the premier appeared, so it wasn’t intended as a critique of the first episode.  Whether it applies or not will become apparent as the season moves along.

    I have to confess, when season-long arcs began showing up on US TV series — I think it was a gangster story, well before the Sopranos — I really hated it because it made missing an episode very dislocating.  As a format, it was pretty new, I think, and a huge fuss was made about how it elevated series TV in a “literary” way, and its success — was it called “Wise Guy”? — spawned a quickening cascade of other shows doing the same thing.  After a while I got used to it, and began to enjoy it, but I’ve also retained a fondness for the single-story X of the week format, probably because I’m impatient by nature.  I like the story *told*, thank you, done and dusted, and let’s move on, as I realized when other shows began doing arcs too.  I don’t know how to reconcile these two preferences for myself, I just know when I’ve had enough of one or the other.

    So, having had lots of wildly hit or miss arcs lately (say, Ashildr’s story) I’m ready to enjoy an opening series that’s what Chibnal said, all discrete stories; but if that’s all we’ll have on offer, going forward, I know I’ll jump ship again, bored by more X of the week.  And I don’t want to; I want to love it, either way.

    I hope I can.

    I can’t comment on last Sunday’s show because the relentless hammering of the ads in the US was impossible to deal with; so I’m going to buy the series and watch on iTunes or Amazon so I can actually see it and remember what happens without being driven to distraction by distractions.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    #64429

    @notime

    Did the UK viewers get an intro segment

    What do you mean by intro segment?

    #64431
    Cath Annabel @cathannabel
    #64435
    Notime @notime

    @pendant

    What do you mean by intro segment?

     

    Not it sure what to call it exactly……Title Sequence maybe?

    The bit that is played right after the opening scene of each episode.   Usually a tune, with a video representation of moving though space-time…..during which the TARDIS appears at some point.

     

    I suspect we didn’t get that sequence because they don’t want to show us the TARDIS yet?   Must be something huge in store…..getting more curious by the day.  Wouldn’t be surprised if we get through most of the season before that appears.

    #64436
    XAD4 @xad4

    @cathannabel

    Guess that’s why they moved to programme to Sundays, too. Seeing a Northern train on a Saturday at all would just be too confusing.

    #64437
    Anonymous @

    Heh heh, I’m new here…but I just had to comment on the new Doctor, and the “premier”…

     

    I’m liking the newest format really, and absolutely adore that they decided to insert a fun twist when the blue Hershey’s Kiss showed up in the woods…that was beautiful…

    #64439
    MadTimeTravellingScot @madtimetravellingscot

    New here. This seems like a friendly place to land my ship. Hi everyone!

    Just rewatched Twice Upon A Time to remind myself of how the doctor exited the Peter Capaldi incarnation, and, you know, how do you follow that tearjerker?! Especially if this is to be a complete reboot.

    Jodie Whittaker has everything it takes to don the mantle. I’m not sure yet that the scripts do. Yet.

    Opening ep was hard work to watch first time through. More ‘Five Go Ape in Yarkshire’ than a real narrative. Sure, it had some heavy industrial lifting to do, mostly done. The setting was brilliant, and the characters are interesting if not enticing (for me, so far, Graham stands out).

    I’ll wait for many more episodes before I make my mind up, but if the new Sunday slot is to work and attract new viewers, well, it really needs to start to wow.

    #64440
    Anonymous @
    #64441
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @cathannabel

    Ha!
    I admit my first thought when people commented on the incredibly long train journey was that there’s really nothing unusual about it … 🙂

    #64442
    thane16 @thane16

    @notime

    Yep, it’s called the Opening Title or Title sequence or Intro as opposed to “outro.”

    @madtimetravellingscot A narrative in this instance was a called plot. ‘A’  happened then ‘B’ then ‘C’ with lots of discussion about what was happening in between. Felt like a very real situation: whether travelling on late night “ghost train” or “siege at a moving base” meme

    @mik8888

    I thought it was as well. “Hersey” LOL. And hello to you. @thetinker Agreed with @pedant red crystal was unusual. Kept pausing to look. You’re the official Red Crystal Spotter now 🙂

    Didn’t realise I’d left the page running for 4 days. Oops.

    From Thane16 sans Mum (Puro).

     

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