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11 years, 5 months ago - View
ScaryB replied to the topic General Open Thread – TV Shows
@Purofilion Glad the finale blew your socks off. Great analysis
@Pedant – Great to see you back; hope RL’s improving and you get settled to regular computer again soon
<span style=”font-style: italic; color: #222222;”>that beautiful sequence of young women taking that power on, without understanding it but knowing that its theirs,…
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11 years, 5 months ago - View
IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan replied to the topic General Open Thread – TV Shows
So, not a fan of Kennedy?
No problem with Kennedy at all and I find the “Chemistry” thing a bit of a canard. It wasn’t a ‘chemistry’ based relationship, but need based – and when we got to the monster shag-fest in Touched everyone else was in pretty much the same place, except those two, because Willow’s magic broke Kennedy down:…[Read more]
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11 years, 5 months ago - View
JimTheFish replied to the topic General Open Thread – TV Shows
And also Kennedy was exactly the sort of forceful character that would bring Willow out of her shell. Disappointing that he didn’t have the courage of his convictions. Sometimes fans are idiots and need to be told that.
Or they could, in fact, have a point. I agree that a forceful character was what was needed but Kennedy wasn’t it. Wi…[Read more]
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11 years, 5 months ago - View
ScaryB commented on the post, Death is your art. Every slayer has a death wish. Even you. Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season Five
Great discussion going on here, thanks everyone.
Not a lot to add that hasn’t been said except –
@Cathannabel Excellent parenting skills indeed. Hi five!
@pedant your comment ” ‘Knights who slay Key’ ” […]
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11 years, 5 months ago - View
JimTheFish commented on the post, Death is your art. Every slayer has a death wish. Even you. Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season Five
@purofilion and @cathannabel — the binary Human/Demon, Soul/Evil etc in Buffy did get some criticisms — is Buffy a white supremacist narrative with Buffy and her white, middle-class vigilantes roaming the […]
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11 years, 5 months ago - View
IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan replied to the topic General Open Thread – TV Shows
Not only a musical but a brilliant one. The overwhelming reaction was massively positive. @Cathannabel has it right about the haters.
Much truth sung (and nice use of the augmented fourth (or diminished fifth, I can never remember which way round it is) in Spike’s coda to Life (‘s A Show). It’s called the devils interval for a…[Read more]
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11 years, 5 months ago - View
IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan commented on the post, Death is your art. Every slayer has a death wish. Even you. Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season Five
I think Spike is one of the most fascinating characters to emerge in fiction- a wannabe romantic shorn of anything resembling a moral compass is quite staggeringly dangerous. So much […]
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11 years, 7 months ago - View
Arbutus replied to the topic Last Christmas
Merry Christmas! I hope everyone had a happy time yesterday. Just got the Christmas special watched and read all your brilliant comments. I really enjoyed this and can’t wait for a chance to watch it again. It left me feeling altogether happy.
I loved what @Bluesqueakpip, @Miapatrick, and @pedant had to say about how the Doctor sees people. When…[Read more]
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11 years, 7 months ago - View
Spider replied to the topic Last Christmas
@Bluesqueakpip Ohhh! spot on about the sulking. Loved that thought that he goes to the actual volcano place!
@CathAnnabel I have to admit I probably also was also one saying on another thread that ‘it was all a dream’ was a terrible cop out. I’m glad to have been proved wrong by Moffat.
@cubefox yeah that clara oswalt, can’t bloody stand her oh…[Read more]
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11 years, 8 months ago - View
PhaseShift commented on the post, Death and the Doctor
I’ll join the chorus and say this is a great blog. Lots to chew over, and more than a few points to respond to.
I think, with regard to death and exploring the themes involved in it, fantasy […]
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11 years, 8 months ago - View
Barbara Lefty commented on the post, Death and the Doctor
Thanks so much for this post @Cathannabel (hope I did that right) I totally agree with the sentiment, I’ve just got so hung up on the thought that there is something more to Danny, that I don’t want it to be true […]
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11 years, 8 months ago - View
ScaryB commented on the post, Death and the Doctor
Great blog, @Cathannabel, really enjoyed it.
But my brain is now completely combobulated about @Blenkinsopthebrave‘s 2016 theory. Hmm, interesting. I certainly missed that watching the episode – rewatch is in […]
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11 years, 8 months ago - View
Rob commented on the post, Death and the Doctor
Great blog post @cathannabel
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11 years, 8 months ago - View
blenkinsopthebrave commented on the post, Death and the Doctor
2016. At one point the Doctor says that a tree planted in 1795 would carry part of that year in 2016. It is implied that they are in 2016. So what I am suggesting is that everything that […]
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11 years, 8 months ago - View
BadWulf commented on the post, Death and the Doctor
@CathAnnabel – Thank you for a great blog – that was a very interesting read that very nicely summed up the key thematic element of the series. I found that this year I have enjoyed much more those stories that […]
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11 years, 8 months ago - View
blenkinsopthebrave commented on the post, Death and the Doctor
Not sure where to post this, but on @cathannabel‘s excellent blog seems a good place.
Bonkers theory:
Just re-watched In the Forest of the Night and thought about the fact that it is set in 2016 (The Doctor […]
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11 years, 8 months ago - View
JimTheFish commented on the post, Death and the Doctor
@cathannabel — terrific blogpost. Really enjoyed reading that. Personally I hope they don’t wind back the bleakness of Death in Heaven too much. I thought it was an interesting place for SM to take the show and […]
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11 years, 8 months ago - View
blenkinsopthebrave commented on the post, Death and the Doctor
A great blog! I think you have captured something about this series with great perception. Maybe the issues you raise even go beyond this series. I think that the theme of Death has followed Clara […]
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11 years, 8 months ago - View
Juniperfish commented on the post, Death and the Doctor
@Cathannabel I think Osgood’s death was more horrible than many of the gory deaths you might see in The Walking Dead, personally, for sheer gratuitous toying on the part of Missy and cruelty on the part of the […]
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11 years, 8 months ago - View
GuestBlogger wrote a new post, Death and the Doctor
Craig here. It gives me great pleasure to post another blog by guest blogger – @cathannabel !
Sometimes everything you read or watch seems to have a connection, a theme that’s so clear it feels as though it cannot be mere coincidence, even though it is impossible for it to be otherwise. It’s been that way lately with death. Obviously once one heads into middle age and beyond, intimations of mortality come thick and fast. But it really isn’t just that.
The theme that has been so inescapable over recent weeks is not just mortality in general. It’s the blurring of the boundaries between death and life, about attempts to make the barrier between the two permeable. I’ve just finished reading Stephen King’s Revival, about which I can say little without risking spoilers, but which, suffice it to say, explores this theme in compelling and haunting fashion. And then there was Lynn Shepherd’s latest literary thriller, The Pierced Heart, after previous works drawing on, variously, Austen, Dickens and the Shelleys, this time turning to Stoker and the Dracula mythos, subverting the genre tropes without losing the chills. So when I picked up Peter Carey’s Bliss, and read the first sentence: ‘Harry Joy was to die three times, but it was his first death which was to have the greatest effect on him’, I was tempted to say, enough already with the whole thing.
Especially as this season of Doctor Who has had such a preoccupation with death. Death and regeneration/rebirth, death and afterlife. These themes have percolated through the episodes, with varying degrees of intensity, culminating in the series finale, whose first part saw the highly disturbing notion that the dead maintain consciousness, aware of what is happening to their mortal remains, and that the message they want to convey to us, the living, is ‘Don’t cremate me!’. Of course, this was a con, but it was unsettling, to say the least, and the thought, once planted, may prove difficult to uproot. Part two showed us mortuaries and graveyards giving up their dead, now encased in cyberman armour and awaiting orders to destroy and/or assimilate the living.
Not only this, but the finale presented us with the deaths of Danny, Osgood and Kate, to name only those who have had the chance to embed themselves in the consciousness and affections of regular watchers of the show. (The body count in previous episodes has been high too, whether significantly higher than in previous series I will leave to other Whovians to assess.)
However for some, death proved to be less than permanent. Danny Pink reappeared as a semi-cyberman, retaining enough of his humanity to resist the orders of Missy and lead his cyber army to suicide rather than to victory. Is he now gone, for good? Kate fell to earth but her dead father saved her. Osgood appears, as far as we know now, to be simply dead.
Sci fi and fantasy take liberties with the boundaries between life and death, on a regular basis. In The Walking Dead all who die, unless despatched in a particular way, will reawaken as zombies (walkers). The living are engaged in a constant battle against the dead. French series The Returned gives us more mysterious revenants, seemingly unchanged from their living selves, and seemingly not out to harm the living (though we will see, in series 2, whether that is really the case).
In the context of Who, however, I’d suggest it’s more relevant to look at the way in which the Buffyverse handles death. @JimTheFish has already noted the nods to Buffy in the finale: ‘And again with the Buffy maybe? Plucky lone girl surrounded by gravestones as creatures rise from the grave. Not to mention tear-jerking goodbyes with her now-undead boyfriend.’

Clara rages about Danny’s death, that it should have been significant and instead it was mundane, ‘boring’:
It was ordinary. People just kept walking with their iPods and their shopping bags. He was alive, then he was dead and it was nothing. Like stepping off a bus.
This had echoes too, of the death of Buffy’s mother – a prosaic tragedy without supernatural cause and, particularly, of Anya’s speech about it:
I don’t understand how this all happens. How we go through this. I mean, I knew her, and then she’s – There’s just a body, and I don’t understand why she just can’t get back in it and not be dead anymore. It’s stupid. It’s mortal and stupid. And – and Xander’s crying and not talking, and – and I was having fruit punch, and I thought, well, Joyce will never have any more fruit punch ever, and she’ll never have eggs, or yawn or brush her hair, not ever, and no one will explain to me why. (‘The Body’, season 5)
Osgood’s death, and Kate’s, whilst not mundane in terms of cause, are almost casual in presentation. No time for heroics, or farewell speeches. Joss Whedon despatches Anya almost casually – she dies fighting the uber vampires, but blink and you’ll miss it, it’s not highlighted or dramatised. Death’s like that. Arbitrary, stupid, pointless.
Except that there’s another strand, of death as chosen, heroic, self-sacrificial. In Death in Heaven, Danny gets a crack at a less boring exit. He’s given the chance to choose death second time around (and to make a speech about it).
Attention! This is not a good day. This is Earth’s darkest hour. And look at you miserable lot. We are the fallen. But today, we shall rise. The army of the dead will save the land of the living. This is not the order of a general. Nor the whim of a lunatic…. This is a promise. The promise of a soldier. You will sleep safe tonight.
The speech may appear to be aimed at his cyber-comrades but clearly its real audience is Missy, the Doctor and above all Clara. It’s – perhaps deliberately – classic eve of battle rhetoric – think Idris Elba cancelling the apocalypse in Pacific Rim, or Leonidas sending his Spartans into battle.
We await the Christmas special to find out Danny will have a third go at some sort of life. I kind of hope not. Not that I begrudge Clara a chance to make a better job of loving him than she did first time around, or Danny himself a chance to redeem his past through living rather than dying. But where death is chosen, self-sacrificial, does its reversal squander the emotional weight of the sacrifice? Not necessarily – Buffy’s return in Season 6 was shown as something itself painful and traumatic, rather than just the cancellation of the pain and trauma of her death in the finale of Season 5. It can work, but Buffy, after all, whilst mortal, is kind of a super-hero, and they play by different rules. Danny, as far as we know, is just a bloke.
Kate’s rescue seems to me to make Osgood’s less likely. Along with so many viewers, I really wanted Osgood not to die, and there was much shouting at the screen when we realised what was afoot. But I’m not sure that I want another death to be overturned.
There are a number of issues here. The first is common to all long-running TV dramas – how to keep real suspense and tension when the audience knows that certain characters cannot be killed off. When the Enterprise crew beams down onto a hostile planet, we know full well that it is the red shirts that will be zapped or otherwise despatched into oblivion, not the captain or any of his core crew. Occasionally that confidence is misplaced. But mostly, if one of the core characters appears to be dead, we are pretty sure that some plot device is in motion to bring them back (see Spock, Tasha Yar, Buffy, Loki, the Master/Missy…). And of course the sci fi/fantasy context means that a way can always be found, retro-engineered if need be into the cosmology of the show, to get around the problem of losing a character that is felt to be essential to its long-term success.
Not that the absence of timey-wimey or supernatural mechanisms prevents soap operas from playing fast and loose with death. News just in – Madge and Harold Bishop are back! Both of them have been previously killed off, but the writers are undeterred, it’s Neighbours 30th anniversary, and it wouldn’t be the same without them. And unless one has personally checked the corpse for vital signs and got a DNA match it would be unwise to believe in the demise of anyone on Hollyoaks. It might seem odd to claim a greater degree of realism for a programme whose protagonist is a two-hearted time travelling alien than for the soaps. But far happier to suspend my disbelief with regard to Who, Buffy and other dramas which play havoc with the laws of physics but at their best offer us emotional truths.
Doctor Who has the particular challenge of its status as a family/children’s programme. It’s never been just a kids’ show and certainly with each regeneration it has retained the children who first watched it into their adulthood and parenthood whilst gathering in their children, and so on. It is still a show that the generations watch together, but the adults are there not just to comfort and reassure their frightened offspring but to enjoy it for themselves. But the presence of the children is a constraint which Buffy did not have to work within. That’s why the deaths, when they occur, are off-screen, or else clean – people are vapourised rather than eviscerated. We rightly shield younger viewers from the kind of gore that The Walking Dead so delights in. We can’t and shouldn’t however skate around the issue of death.
Of course children’s stories have always brought us face to face with death. My own and earlier generations wept for Bambi’s mother, as my children’s generation did for Simba’s father. In fact, the child heroes of many of the classics had misplaced one or both parents, even if the manner of their loss was not dwelt upon. The generations contemporary with Louisa May Alcott, Frances Hodgson Burnett, Lucy M Montgomery and their ilk were familiar with death, after all, with child mortality and perinatal maternal mortality at levels unimaginable to us today, at least here in the First World. Stories give us ways of understanding, of dealing with, the stuff that happens to us, and the best ones don’t just sugar the pill, cosying everything up, with rainbow bridges and happy ever afters, but acknowledge mortality in all its cruelty, that it takes whoever it wishes, pets, parents, friends.
I have no problem therefore with death – real, permanent, boring, pointless death – being part of the drama of Who, nor yet with the freedom that sci-fi/fantasy allows to take some of the sting of death away. But for the reversals to have any dramatic or emotional weight, we need there to be the possibility that this time it’s for keeps, that the danger is real, that we may lose someone we care for and that others we care for may be plunged into terrible grief.
We will not know until the Christmas special – if then – whether Danny Pink will return. We’ve been given the nod that things can’t be left as they were at the end of Death in Heaven. Quite right – that was bleak. Too bleak for the kids, too bleak for me. But I hope that there will be a different way of making things better, so that we can leave the Doctor and Clara in a more hopeful place, without simply erasing the loss and hurt that they’ve been through.
After all, what have we learned this series? OK, that there’s no such thing as an arboreal coincidence, which may or may not ever be a particularly handy bit of info. More importantly, we’ve learned that ‘stories can make us fly’. And we’ve learned about our ordinary human superpowers, not just the power to forget, but the most important one, fear. And all of the things that we fear come back to this – our own extinction, or the extinction of the people we love.
Fear is a superpower. Fear can make you faster and cleverer and stronger. … if you’re very wise and very strong fear doesn’t have to make you cruel or cowardly. Fear can make you kind. It doesn’t matter if there’s nothing under the bed or in the dark so long as you know it’s okay to be afraid of it. So listen. If you listen to anything else, listen to this. You’re always gonna be afraid even if you learn to hide it. Fear is like a companion, a constant companion, always there. But that’s okay because fear can bring us together. Fear can bring you home. I’m gonna leave you something just so you’ll always remember. Fear makes companions of us all.
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