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18 October 2025 at 20:58 #78228
Would like to know how Star Beast was chosen as an intro to the Mouse era… but, we’ll probably never know. It entertained enormously, almost effortlessly, in a manner Chib could only ever dream. What I shall do is watch the transition from Chib back to Russ together I think…
1. there must have been some Russ input into Chib’s swansong. Was there a clue there all along. Not just what one day must be Max’s tooth.
2. Also the new arc was in gestation… The Boss is still out there in… Reality War was it? So, the arc STARTS with 14… in PotDoctor. Get my drift?
Also this late Chib stuff is actually not anywhere as mortifying as series 11&12. Not remotely any good, but even the maligned t’floox had a… demented sense of purpose. I’m not sure the old chain of commands apply any more but, in Classic terms, what Chib and his frankly inexperienced writers probably needed was very very strong script editor. The Lord God Robert Holmes ruffled some hack feathers. Do they still exist?
So, I shall look at this… and the first Ruby Sunday ep as part of my pre Xmas binge. And try to join the dots.
But first I look at superior writers. Done Bailey; ignore the realisation of the monsters, he is VERY good. Boucher next, then the rest of Fisher and late Holmes… in the new year; even The Two Doctors and The Shii… sorry… Mysterious Planet.
17 October 2025 at 08:28 #78226continuity… may well alienate more new fans than it attracts. But it is a 60+ year show; 50 years active. It’s more of a question of what you do with it: Cartmel wanted it to be less ‘roll out a classic monster’ and more about The Doctor himself: man of mystery revealed, not mad man in a box, that phrase itself being Moff’s deflection of the question.
I don’t buy the ‘14 + 16 are accidents caused by Gatwa being noncommittal superstar’ theory. If they have said something like that it’s because ‘they’ don’t want to reveal… whatever it is.
So, a bunch of hacks have been chucked off the gravy train for a few months. More interested in when and what The Corp is actually doing… cos continuity is a big problem for them too: ‘but we don’t want you to DO that! When did it ever make sense anyway?’
The holy grail of lost shows must be Fury from the Deep or Evil of The Daleks. Fingers crossed.
16 October 2025 at 15:57 #78223Hope I’ve done this right:
Shearman wants to write more books/audio/big finish?? Cos he didn’t get another gig on the actual show.
Does someone actually know something?? Has Billie said anything?
It’s Billie vs David again. Everyone kind of knows what that means.
Or the show dies! I say again is this what one hit wonder Shearman is chewing? Moff says it was a total shock. So how did Ecclestone know? He knew. Moff knows.
Just a question of when. I say again. Is Russ banking footage? Just in case.
16 October 2025 at 13:56 #78222@dentarthurdent
Yes, Inferno, Caves of Androzani, Fires of Pompei… magma has Who-form.Perhaps it’s doctor evil/panicked hero hyperbole. You only need a certain amount of flooding/volcanic activity to wipe us out, but never knowingly undersell it.
16 October 2025 at 09:24 #78219@whohar @dentarthurdent @janetteb
Time paradoxes and how to avoid them.
Timelords are time sensitive… Girl who Died… ‘ripples not tidal waves.’ Obviously no one is going for the abandoned arc/plot seeding theory… but the implication is, this IS a tidal wave and The Doctor knows it. Therefor he’s there because the Tardis done it. Malfunctioning man in malfunctioning blue box. Talk to Jamie.
Also The Doctor CAN observe history and then change it… see Pyramids of Mars. Also, ‘we change history all the time.’ Not all history changes generate paradox. Timo wimo.
But what about Let’s Kill Hitler? The Tesselector is essentially Bad Testimony. Are you going to extract my memories? No just torture you; you were going to die anyway. That’s not an evil plan at all. Or maybe a bit. But, does that mean River (and Rory) actually SAVED Hitler in ‘38? Maybe someone else was due to assassinate him on the same day. In other words, between them and Hitler’s cupboard, they caused at least THAT version of WWII. Not saying it wasn’t too late for some kind of mechanised bust up.
Blinovitch… used once only (?) in a story written in a hurry by Grimwade I think, and prior to Cartmel, so he maybe had more scope for invention. Bit duff.
The Trial of a Timlord is rife with paradox: in Vervoids, The Doctor is charged with a genocide he hasn’t yet committed.
Father’s Day: not my favourite ep, but Russ must have been happy. The Doctor tests crossing timelines essentially. Also Big Bang: I’m sure The Doctor in the Fez got very paradoxy (don’t ask me what exactly) but then it was a collapsing Universe. Well, it’s all going to have to come down anyway.
Sound of Drums: the Tardis BECOMES a paradox machine. Also why exactly was Yana doing what he did at the end of all things (again)? Russ JUST about got away with that.
The Tardis Done it… ‘I took you where you needed to be’ or the timelines are out of sync or something like that.
So either Sally only caught up with The Doctor in time for him to go to Wester Drumlins without having read the file. After that he CAN’T interfere because he hasn’t got a Tardis.
Or The Doctor realises he HAS to do it… to avoid a paradox? Or so that we have dvds??? Perhaps he reads the file, smacks his head, and says ‘that’s why the Tardis plays dvds rather than firesticks a streaming service!’ The dodgy implication being is he’s happy to risk Martha; he can’t be sure they’ll both end up 69. Maybe he could rescue her once he gets the Tardis back. Knowing what I know about his relationship with Martha, I’m not sure.
Or The Tardis done it? Presumably so we have dvds. The cloister bell doesn’t sound for someone like Martha.
15 October 2025 at 12:29 #78214fantasy science. Yes, it’s part of the show but they flaunt the worst possible examples so often you have to wonder if we’re being baited.
Flooding the entire Earth didn’t ought to be possible. Perhaps The Chief Sea Devil meant he would flood low lying continental margins. That might well cause the collapse of human civilisation. Couldn’t The Doctor babble about that?
Otherwise, the known mechanisms of sea level rise would be:
global warming and melting ice caps
the early phase of continental breakup. (I think) abyssal plains containing water get subducted while new constructive margins displace water.
new water transported to the earth by comets.
geomagnetism? It happens. The real problem might be solar radiation. Perhaps THATS what Sea Devil wants… to fry everything on land to a crisp?
It’s all fantastic. The energy needed to raise sea levels rapidly would be immense, marmalise the surface of the earth and turn the ocean toxic. But this is certainly interesting stuff, like the little ice age, or Carrington events, or Moon formation theories. We have science thank you; no space bats needed here.
15 October 2025 at 12:21 #78213fantasy science. They flaunt it so often you have to wonder if we’re being baited.
Flooding the entire Earth didn’t ought to be possible. Perhaps The Sea Devils meant he would flood low lying continental margins. That might well cause the collapse of human civilisation. Couldn’t The Doctor babble about that?
Otherwise, the known mechanisms of sea level rise would be:
global warming and melting ice caps
the early phase of continental breakup. (I think) abyssal plains containing water get subducted while new constructive margins displace water.
new water transported to the earth by comets.
geomagnetism? It happens. The problem might be solar radiation. Perhaps THATS what Sea Devil wants… to fry everything on land to a crisp.
It’s all fantastic. The energy needed to raise sea levels rapidly would be immense and marmalise the surface of the earth. But it’s interesting stuff, like the little ice age, or Carrington events, or Moon formation theories. We have science; no space bats needed here thank you.
14 October 2025 at 22:50 #78209Legend of The Sea Devils
LotSD is not Eve but it’s not most of the dross from series 11 & 12 neither. Which probably means it’s there with T’floox, neither boring us to death nor making very much sense.
There is a jewel which the Sea Devils need, so they can wipe out the land crawlers, somehow. And they get it during some running around and exposition with added time travel. Then there’s a peculiar little sequence reminiscent of Bedknobs and Broomsticks, bottom of the sea, in which the Doctor seems to flirt like mad and Yaz doesn’t believe her.
The problem is not that this happens, but that it happens in the middle of the action. Dan and a kid are menaced by a Pirate Queen while a submarine version of a sand worm makes like Drogon complete with gnashers but no flames. But you never see much of it in case someone thinks hmm ‘Myrka.’ Now if this was series 11 & 12, the Chucklegenerations would go meh meh meh and I would probably switch off. But that wouldn’t be fair on this particular story, though I think no more of this story than much of series 11 &12. What I mean is, its not fair on the romance either; as baity as it might seem, that might yet be quite affecting.
But no, the Doctor has psychobabble to babble. And DOES she! 10 could sarky cockerny slouch, and 11 rapid fogey, 12 turned on Tucker minus Jefferty before closing the trap. Whitcoc just patter patter patters. She needs more mardy bum. Chib obviously decided that was too 12, not really The Doctor, not what The Mail could take from a woman.
That aside, this is where the bad science comes home. The head Sea Devil is going to flood the earth, but flipping the magnetic poles won’t do that. Unfortunately the theme established earlier was magnetism, sorry didn’t I say? Now, if they’d created the Siberian or Deccan traps, a volcanic province to roast the earth with maybe a phase of rapid seafloor spreading, that might be reasonably effective. And poison the oceans, too. See, this is Kill the Moon/Forest of the Night territory, fantasy science riffing on important stuff. Another epic miss.
Never mind, everyone then gets a bit shivvy, including Dan, who rocks the glowing blue plague scimitar and then blames his mum. But all is resolved, I think. Except Dan realises he is def the gooseberry and puts out an emergency call to Scouseland even as The Doctor, opening her heart to Yaz, virtually breaks into Bob Dylan’s One of Us Must Know (Sooner or Later).
But the postscript IS affecting. Because The Doctor mentions her wife, but it’s obvious she’s thinking of Bill and Clara, girls SHE could not save, though they were saved, but not for HER. The Doctor’s pain is genuinely pathetic. Actually very good acting.
Meanwhile, I am sat in Larry Nightingale’s video shop, staring at the screen shouting not ‘go to the police!’ but ‘give her a snog!’
14 October 2025 at 17:39 #78208An Android Princess became Romana 2.
Lots of reoccurring thesps in less prominent but varied roles…
The War Lord and Solon
Poule and Mawdryn
David Troughton got in a few times.
As for 12’s face… it’s specifically to do with Ashildr, who he recognises, and acts so weirdly around that Clara calls him out. And in the middle of a ridiculous set of coincidences too! Not least being that there’s no way he should know he has to save Ashildr… he certainly didn’t want to be around Vikings.
Perhaps the Time Lords tipped him off when they supposedly gave him a new set of regenerations, which turned out to be a red herring, so what was it came through the crack of doom? Apart from Dalek destroying glowy stuff.
14 October 2025 at 17:14 #78207Flustered hormonal Sally got a telephone call from older Billy, right after she left younger Billy safely next to the Tardis in the police pound, and some angels. I think.
Not sure how the angels then, and only then, moved the Tardis back to Wester Drumlins. Or why. I think Sally had the key. As we now know (but didn’t then) angels are multi skilled.
As I say, painting and decorating: easy.
14 October 2025 at 08:30 #78204That sequence is good. I would insert…
Gatwa’s decision to leave was because of an unhappy combination of streaming partner demands and show runner hubris. Also lack of time for writing because in-show development had been trashed by the previous showrunner’s wilful vandalism, which was forced the BBC’s need to take control of show content, in turn caused by a combination of criticism of The Corporation AND the prior showrunner’s hubris.
Placeholder or not, Gatwa stays or not, BP was probably inevitable once the bigeneration was introduced.
13 October 2025 at 23:04 #78201second thoughts…
The sun shut off can only happen BECAUSE The Doctor is separated from The Tardis.
So. Either The Doctor didn’t read the file. Maybe it happened straight after the Lizard and long bow thing. Or… The Doctor had to risk the shut off to prevent the paradox. Or… the Tardis stitched him up for the same reason. That’s got to be worth a tinkle of The Cloister Bell.
On the other hand ‘Duck! Sally Sparrow’ is just boring old painting and decorating.
13 October 2025 at 21:05 #78199‘Mind as the monster.’
Better than a man in a rubber suit. Or actors with facial prosthetics, my problem with Stat Trek, though The Founders were well realised. And now quite scary. ‘Solids’ are chaotic and dangerous. Democracy is chaotic and dangerous (to whom?)
So, the reason why The Mara were so good. Badly realised in the early 80’s. I wouldn’t like Russ to break them. Sutekh was originally a mind monster, and so was the Fendahleen. Perhaps too The Fury from the Deep. Others?
The other mind monsters are of course human. Caves of Androzani has both Morgus and Jek but I struggle to think of many effectively rendered human Who villains. Luke Rattigan from (Sontaran stratagem) and Van Statten (Dalek) are earily prophetic it would seem. But before them I can’t think of many incredibly wealthy death wishers accept Harrison Chase from the Seeds of Doom.
But who else wouldn’t you dismiss as an idiot lacking real motivation. You might say Stahlman from Inferno (now) echoes Farage or Rees Mogg (let’s all poison our ground water) but therein is the issue with the story: his behaviour is so irrational he HAS to become a Primord. Otherwise, the target of Classic Who is more normally bureaucracy or blundering overpromotion.
Even the Master as psychopath, rather than simply devoted to The Doctor’s demise, seems problematic for some fans and John Sim gets the blame. I loved the performance. A great mind monster you would think but then was Taren Capel (Robots of Death)?
13 October 2025 at 20:28 #78198I am teasing.
‘Reusing’ faces, maybe it’s a phase Time Lords go through. 12 postulated there was a reason. Doesn’t really retcon for 6. 14 seems to indicate there is something wrong with that regeneration and 10: the metacrisis ‘human’ doc, a bit feisty, fond of the face in the mirror… though there’s always room for a small girl with a red balloon. The face that Rose loved.
So, assuming the show does come back, does that mean we know where it’s going. If I were Russ I’d be banking some footage of key people.
13 October 2025 at 20:13 #78197Blink, The Doctor’s timeline.
Sally Sparrow gives The Doctor the Wester Drumlin file.
He either doesn’t read the file,
Or he does read it but goes to Wester Drumlins anyway to avoid a time paradox,
Or does, but goes there because the sun might (probably) get shut off,
Or does or doesn’t but The Tardis takes him and Martha there anyway, though he’s unaware, to avoid a time paradox, a sun shut off and maybe kick-start the digital media industry.
But, in any case, he doesn’t leave the file behind in the Tardis either, otherwise the sun (probably) gets shut off.
He gets scragged by an angel at Wester Drumlins and ends up in 69. Fortunately so does Martha, and by the same Angel, not the one who later got Kathy, who goes to 1920.
Then Billy Shipman also gets scragged by the 69 angel. He meets The Doctor and they develop digital recording media which will be compatible with Tardis console, and use Sally’s notes to film their ‘interview’ with Sally.
They don’t travel to find one of the other iterations of The Doctor in 1969, so that they avoid a time paradox, help Sally, and keep the sun going etc.
The Doctor tells Billy he has to stay behind in 69 to avoid a time paradox, but we suspect The Doctor also gave him digital media patents to make him rather richer than a policeman but, more importantly, so he’ll put Easter eggs on the dvds from Larry’s list of Sally’s films, probably in around 2000.
So, The Doctor and Martha retrieve The Tardis and carefully investigate disappearances at Wester Drumlins. Using what they learn, they go to some time in the past which seems to be pre angel, and become painters and decorators, leaving the message which prevents the angels from braining Sally, so the sun (probably) doesn’t get turned off and we used dvds for a while, after VHS but before streaming came along.
Simple (?)
13 October 2025 at 09:15 #78191@dentarthurdent @whohar @janetteb
RTD2: we seem to be mid arc. Lots unresolved. The Disney money flushed away. The Susan tease…
Would Russ rather have Gatwa still in harness? Yes, the adjustment to Reality War seemed rushed. But Russ effectively shrugged his shoulders at Ecclestone’s departure. And even the most generous Gatwa fans must admit his tenure was… uneven. Some sparkly gems, some tumbleweed moments.
I have still no objection to Billie whatsoever. I don’t really understand the furore… beyond understandable questions about direction, The Disney brief, and the quite unsatisfactory season ends (though Reality war was poignant). It’s unfair to say the least to dump all that on Billie Piper. And oh she’s older! Tut, the shelf life of the female tv personality…
So, Billie may or may not be a rushed replacement. Almost certainly not. Ecclestone’s own statement re her appearance may not be a rec so much as a nod. He knew. She was on the way sooner or later, the arc mapped out long since, not least because 14 is still slumming it in Chiswick, the implications of the bigeneration not yet resolved.
And you know my thoughts about all things V including Virtual Reality.
13 October 2025 at 08:32 #78189‘Duck. Sally Sparrow!’ Well the Doctor’s got Sally’s notes. Which presumably mention Wester Drumlins so The Doctor either had to go or set up a paradox, or he (more likely) he forgot. All Moffat’s first run of stories were super but Blink was genius level. The best thing you can say about Sally and Larry is it was downbeat, that she was another casualty of The Doctor, a rejected companion (whereas Martha was the unwillingly platonic companion) or that the relationship was somehow in memoriam of Kathy. And, of course, a return to ‘Sparrow and Nightingale.’ But this was a naked man she met wandering about Kathy’s… and I’m surprised Moff didn’t have more fun with the fact that Sally didn’t know Larry was Kathy’s brother. Probably wouldn’t work. We don’t know if Sally and Larry are happy (no don’t do it Carey) but actually it was a faux happy ending.
So maybe Sarah (not Laura) and Nick is faux happy too. Because using a Self Store as a trophy room is quite nasty. And it does seem a bit desperate. And something else is needed to resolve something so mean (if it was intentional) but this a feature of Chib… he can be quite cruel. Unless it’s signalling the Thasmin queer baiting to come? (it is) Maybe an after after sequence with useless Jeff?
But it was good. It would have held up under another show runner. Chib is probably better at stand alones than arcs. 42 was based on the concept of 24 of course. Sentient suns is a reference to Masters of The Vortex. More EE doc Smith please. It was competent chase with peril, not in a hurry to rewatch. Power of Three was about as good as Chib got… the Shakri was like dry run for The Ravagers unless he sprang fully formed with the mighty cerebral cortex of Berkoff.
Anyway, far better than the Silurian two parter which could have been done in one ep (though the realisation of the lizards was far better than the Sea Devils… just started that one). And as for the Dinosaur epic miss…
12 October 2025 at 11:33 #78184I WAS being picky. ‘Eve’ is a worthy effort. Perhaps, if T’floox was itself an improvement but err… confused, Chris was learning, trying to up his game, maybe (in my mind) telling The Corp to back off: the notional post Moff straightjacket was too tight.
But not all Who falls apart upon inspection. And this was ok. Sally Sparrow and the geek from Blink were an unlikely couple too. Why can’t unlikely people get together and have unsatisfactory relationships which we mercifully don’t then witness? Getting zapped eight times in fifty minutes might well make you less fussy about with whom you jump into a taxi. My point is more that the set-up almost deserved something more, because the cold start was as good writing as we’ve had from Chib.
So I get the ‘moral’: chuck the duff job, bin the junk, new year, new start, live. And Yaz/Doc therefor is also teased, with the Tardis as a taxi. And Dan the gooseberry. You see, Moff and RTD could throw Xmas shapes and everyone knew where they were. Chib had been bumped onto hangover day.
It’s my tastes that demand something more downbeat for Sarah and Nick, and I’m sure Aisling and Adjani would have relished something more… ‘twisty.’ Don’t ask me what.
But Eve is stage 1 of its own 3 part mini series. Chib doesn’t want to peak too soon and keen to present his dalek kill fest thought experiment in sharp relief rather than blur it with a more nuanced resolution. That makes Eve a competent Chib story like 42 or Power of Three, slightly off kilter but not worthy of a foot through the screen.
11 October 2025 at 09:50 #78178Eve of The Daleks
Thank you. You rescued me from 5; I was about to watch Warriors of the Deep, just to snigger at The Myrka. This is MUCH better. It comes with a high rep. The long cold start works. Chib’s dialogue practically sparkles. The set-up intrigues. It has urgency. Everyone… well five people… get zapped again and again. And in the end, when the loop closes, they will all be dead, permanently. Oooh Peril.
Written in a hurry due to lockdown production problems which also explains the cast of not very many. Less is more.
Overall, this IS about as good as the very best bits of T’floox, or Villa of The Bad Boys, maybe some parts of other eps, but not MUCH. It seems to me the sense, built around contracting time loops, is lost half way through.
Now you might say I’m not being fair; always running Chib down. What’s wrong now? The fam is under control, the daleks reduced to their primary function, people running down corridors. And the end of the Universe is not on the menu. Whoopie! Should be fine.
Well yes, Dan and Yaz almost function like real people, if it wasn’t that Yaz is reduced to an existence dependent on The Doctor, every seven minutes or so. Or six… five… yeah. Moff got crucified for that didn’t he? Then Dan gets misty eyed about the belle epoque and stops to give Yaz the talk. That’s right, everything stops. The running. The zapping. Problem is, this is a red flag for the rapidly decreasing time available to the doomed as we rush towards the end. I know it’s a metaphor for lives on hold, for the love lorn and Yaz, and it does come with some kind of in-narrative explanation. I could always rewind and put text on, and take notes. But I’m not going to.
Also eight zaps and the Doctor didn’t start to regenerate once.
Oh and there’s STILL northern stuff happenin all over: calm down calm down, whippets, parkin, Blackpool, ee that black pudding’s black.
As for Chib’s love lives of random people, it’s bearable for about a page: the set up, it’s agreeably weird. Oooh. What are you going to do with all this then Chris? Oh. That. You know, for all Chib’s digs at awkward singletons: hoarding, duff new years eves, naggy parents, I can’t help but think Sarah’s initial instincts about Nick were not entirely wrong. Well, I suppose inventing a new character that’s supposed to walk and talk for a whole hour but no more must be tough… but it’s not something Moff ever had that much of a problem with.
The daleks… when Chib first put pen to paper this time, top of the page must have been, ‘what about five people zapped to death what? Forty times between them in an hour?’ THAT is the hook. It’s new ground. Reductio ad absurdum. Actually it’s horrible. And repetitive, and wearing. More is not more. What point is Chris really trying to make? Or is he at all?
Jeff is apparently slang for someone arrogant and manipulative. So it can’t be that.10 October 2025 at 11:04 #78172Mara Stories.
I suspect the snakes were about to raise their heads… whenever we get underway again.
So, early 1980’s… other people may have different views but the three ‘peaks’ of the Davison era must be ‘Caves’, and Chris Bailey’s Mara Stories. I know Earthshock had impact (see what I did there) but to say it was flawed would be a mumbling understatement.
There again, flawed and Who go together, even in the age of Nuwho. 1970’s: The Robots of Death rests on the premise that a lunatic wants to kill people using Robots. 2007: The Doctor has to set up a video call with a 38 year delay in Blink and it’s not preposterous at all. Don’t spoil the fun.
Opinion: Earthshock is NOT fun because the dialogue is ridiculous and the various parts of the story never really join up. Caves IS fun because the dialogue zings, the direction is brilliant and little touches like John Normington’s strange asides to camera somehow… work. The trapped Peri subplot is appallingly exploitative but it IS of it’s time, I suppose. The Magmabeast… is it worse than Mestor or The Myrka or The Tractators?
Therein lies the big problem with both Mara stories. The snake is BAD. This was the early 80’s; Michael Grade would soon have to decide if Buck Rogers or Dennis Watts would be the future. Who apparently demanded monsters even when, like Magmabeast or Primord, they weren’t necessary.
Beyond that, this is a matter of suspending belief… when credence and storytelling itself is the issue. The monster IS the mind. Any mind. It can manifest in innocence. It can be conquered and then recover itself through arrogance, indolence and complacence.
Kinda is revered and Snakedance, in comparison, rather denigrated… by the critics: the fans love both. I can’t see the difference. What is that about?
If you want to knock either, go ahead. This is the birth of woke, I suppose. Colonialism bad. Elites bad. Militarism bad. Scientific method bad… depending on your perspective. Spiritual enlightenment… that gets about as good as you can get.
Now, this not really Who of the past or the future.This could cut Mary off at the knees and garner a tumbleweed moment at a Tory Party Conference. Do fans really want to hear The Doctor called an idiot, or have him locked up for hours on end, or see a companion (Nyssa) sidelined for entire episode presumably because 5 rescued her from being an android and no-one told the script-writers…? Apparently they did, because it gets a thumbs up well on the way to the scale of Blink. Well done Jonathan! Not sure how you did it. Eric then. Thank you for not going violently doolally, unless it was actually intended to be a sunday school picnic until Tegan started chewing on her strawberry lace and the snake vomited various flavours of Angel Delight in soft focus.
Also, Simon Rouse and Richard Todd are brilliant in Kinda, bearing in mind the parts would be completely impossible to play straight. Martin Clunes in Snakedance is a revelation. He not simply sold teenage ennui effortlessly but made it more sexy than Nyssa’s new kit or Tegan’s really rather fetching shorts. Not that I ever took my eye off the ball.
But Chris Bailey throws everything at both stories and the actors respond. There’s so much there that you might think ‘oh it’s too much, how the hell could the count them out and count them back establishment’ cope. But everyone, with a remote interest in the show, approved. If Russ tried that today you should expect a tirade.
Just good writing, good acting, be careful with the effects.
10 October 2025 at 10:17 #78171Moff… I come to praise Moff not bury him.
There were those who thought he was too clever. Clever in the Nuwho is what psychobabble was to Classic.There were those who missed Tennant. Tennant was the new Tom. Interesting that Hinchcliffe/Holmes are never really praised for ‘making’ Tom. Most of those who say ‘I liked Tennant’ probably wouldn’t know who Stephen Moffat was.
There were the ‘big friendly red button’ and ‘no body dies’ issues.
There was the ‘writing for women’ thing. I can’t say Moff’ and Amy was worse than the way RTD wrote Martha. And Donna was only ‘rescued’ from cliche by Tate’s comic talent. Of course, Amy brings Rory with her. THAT is the point. Surely?
River IS more psychopath than woman. That’s an odd statement and it’s an odd statement by the writer. BUT great writing? I don’t think anyone blinked.
Clara is very odd. A guardian angel? At this point I can understand some people getting fidgety. In hindsight. For a long time she was a mystery wrapped in an enigma. So much so, you do think ‘why write that?’ I say meta. Others go straight for the ‘offensive’ button. And Moff DOES raise the older man question with 12. And he is there in the sacred cattle byre wielding a meat cleaver: kissograms, child abduction, religion, WW1, Bechdel Test…
Good writing? You bet. Did he garner lots of praise as well? Certainly.
Is he writing about aspects of himself? This is the real accusation. It’s a sci-fi show. Ideas. Where do you get them? You can only have so many bases under siege. You can make daleks levitate and then what? But people who go on and on about emotional depth are soap addicts. Cos where people get emotional. They just think they can call themselves critics.
If there wasn’t other stuff happening at the Corp, it might not matter. But there’s always stuff happening at The Corp. If the alternative had worked, I wouldn’t be writing this. But Whittaker came with Chibnall and vice versa. Maybe a Lady12 could have been Fay Marsay. Or… Freema? Or Orla Brady??!
10 October 2025 at 09:02 #78169Yes bring in Billie as the Doctor. If Maxil can become 6, Caecilius becomes 12, & 10 becomes 2 other versions of himself, why not? I can no more understand the voices saying ‘no. Not happened yet. Can’t be real. La la lala la!’
As to… WHY? I assume Rose represents something to the Doctor… and you might as well call it love. And 6 represented a pompous functionary, 12 was the potential to act, & 10 was vanity and arrogance.
Or Rose is just the show eating itself. Bottom of barrel – scraper; scraper… bottom of barrel. Just putting it out there.
I will add a postscript re the Moff debate ‘On the Sofa.’ After all, Moff only ever wrote The Moment for Billie.
8 October 2025 at 10:54 #78160‘Moff the marked man’… yes I have alluded, heavily. Will try to keep this short.
In respect to romance in Who, Moff couldn’t do anything RTD didn’t really want, so Russ must have been happy with the tone. And he had previously worked with the idea of ‘Rose the perfect companion’ himself. So, forget ‘The Doctor is Gay Man who women like’ schtick. This WAS teased in the past and we knew where it was going to end.
However, Moff gave us MUCH more: potential polyamory in The Doctor Dances, the green eyed god in ‘The Girl in The Fireplace,’ and the Time Traveller’s Wife in ‘Silence in the Library.’ Some people harrumphed but, the ratings were stellar and everyone looked forward eagerly to the next marvelous Moff outing.
The problem with Moff, as a friend said to me, is that he was the best writer under RTD and the best writer under Moff. He’s spread more thinly; the average will come down. And he hadn’t got Tennant. The red tops, who like nothing more than to point out the obvious, point this out. But there are questions raised about romance and kid’s programs, and teasing romance, and how female companions are written. So, Moff does what RTD shied away from and creates the perfect companion, or he gets The Silence to do it… a Psychopath! And Amy becomes his mother in law. She even says that.
This seems to fail the Bechdel test. Epically. There’s not many women on Moff’s rota of writers, and the Corp is peering nervously at storm clouds: Saville, Hall, Harris. They must know the salaries issue is round the corner.
The first real critical moans start in series seven. Was the Paternoster Gang angling at a spin-off? If so, they ain’t buying it. And WHAT is Strax doing there? Really?? ‘Nightmare in Silver’ is slaughtered by the critics, a bit unfairly I thought, but Moff apparently needs to tighten his grip. The Doctor now has a Snogging Booth and seems to be love bombing Clara. But it’s alright really… cos he’s going to turn into an older man!
Please don’t get me wrong, I think this is ALL great. The Trenzalor arc turned out a bit meh, but otherwise, what is wrong with the critics? The thing is, I am but one small unit in a vast society; some people didn’t think ‘great’ at all. There was a particular objection raised to Clara admiring her own rear view in ‘Listen’! Oh. And this is the series with The Soldier narrative. Moff marks the centenary of The Great War with Cybermen resurrected, flying into the sky and blowing up. I expected outrage… I detected some wincey fixed grins. ‘I am not you boyfriend’ says 12, but Clara still goes behind Danny’s back and gets breathless in a pod chair with Rigsy. Before that, Moff and Mathieson deliver the ultimate digitus impudicus to Bechdel with Maisie and Clara on The Orient Express.
I suspect by the time that was broadcast, Moff was told to wind it in. But, for Moff, the writing is the meta is the things you can’t REALLY have seen, can you? The Doctor recognises a Viking girl and Clara offers to fight him for her. Then he starts talking baby again. Oooh. Did we REALLY see that? Moff predicts Who up to 2020. So, there IS something like Cartmel 2.0 out there. Maybe he was told he couldn’t do the very things we saw/didn’t see/weren’t meant to see/were Meta, but they might yet become the plan. The soufflé isn’t the soufflé, it’s the recipe.
There is a mention of new funding, a streaming deal maybe? We get Husbands of River Song and Doctor Mysterio. But Moff doesn’t get the gig. Maybe he was always going to hand over the baton anyway. How long can you do that job? But it’s more Fin de siècle than the 2009 specials. Whithouse and Gatis get to point pistols at each other in Twice Upon a Time. Series ten, after a fantastic start, seemed rather rushed. Bill becomes a Cyberman, which is jaw-dropping. But also, is this Meta for ‘what does the Corp want from a companion?’ Yes Steven, it’s not you, it’s us. We need a deal, and a Lady Doctor, and she must be squeaky clean.
7 October 2025 at 12:39 #78158Rose is a good shout. Billie’s reappearance still seems to mystify the internet ‘World of Gammon.’ So, what’s it all about, eh?
I think Micky the bin is a good place to start. RTD has a sense of humour, something that continues with Cassandra desiccating, Slitheen flatus issues, and Adam need a hole in the head, like a… hole in head. RTD2 should be seen in the same vein. Better than a hole in the head.
Billie being a ‘singer’? Surely it’s more the case of Billie breaking out of her career straightjacket? Good move! I can’t honestly think anyone was seriously sniffy about that. Still, playing opposite major theatrical, film and tv talent. I thought Ecclestone was great and the welcome contrast to all the sniggers. Wouldn’t it have been great if he lasted longer or appeared in 60th anniversary special? But he didn’t like the set-up, which may have included the humour, and by now most people suspect he disliked some cast behaviour.
The romance? Well, The Doctor Danced before you realised it. Previous romance?
Katatina looked on The Doctor as a God, something that disturbed the writers so much they immediately killed her off.
Jamie was keen on Victoria but no-one was keen on Jamie.
Zoe had fun grabbing hold of the TARDIS console.
Jo liked Mike and Cliff. Sarah Jane threatened to spit in Harry’s eye.
4/Leela was quite heavily teased. And she did indeed shack up with a Gallifreyan… Rodan or Andred or someone like that.
Romana was a time lady… I wondered when they were going to wheel on a Loom… and Romana 2 and 4 became the fourth wall breaking REAL thing. She indulged his schoolgirl fantasies and everything!
Davison was keen on Nyssa the character. Unfortunately that meant Sarah Sutton was deprived of dialogue and action for AGES. In Snakedance, Nyssa DEFINITELY flirts with 5 and then gets very shirty with him. No good Nyssa. You can wander around Terminus in your underwear for three whole eps and then threaten to work with plague victims, there really is nothing there.
Until 6 and Peri. My theory is there’s no way they could survive their mutual antagonism unless something was going on. Let’s face it the rest of creation is NOT saying no. Or did this have something to do with Eric Saward?
Mel was Ace, and Ace and 7 was actually quite creepy. Be honest.
So 9/10 and Rose is really nothing new. And this is RTD, NOT Moff. Apart from The Doctor Dances.
But Moff became a marked man.
7 October 2025 at 11:45 #78157Series 18 concluded
The Great Entropy Expedition ends with ‘Keeper of Traken’, a story about an ideal society which seems to exist through the force of sheer niceness, and ‘Logopolis’ wherein it is revealed that The Universe is actually kaput and only held together with chewing gum, gaffer tape and Maths. Only then does The Master, no longer Hot Smoked but wearing the skin of Nyssa’s dad, decide to shake the Universe up at, of all places, Jodrell Bank; well, a model of it, just to see if it will give in.
Now, I can’t say I like either of these eps. I saw Keeper first time round and the fantasy stylings struck me as quite dull. At least the writer gave Sarah Sutton some proper lines and Adric promised to be not quite so useless. Logopolis is barking and yet not nearly as enjoyable as The Leisure Hive. Even now, does anyone know what Chris Bidmead was doing with this? Apart from killing off Tom Baker?
But these two were preceded by Warriors’ Gate, which I missed first time round, and comes with a fair rep. It had a difficult gestation with arguments between the showrunners and both writer and director. But it looks, if not stunning, then still very striking.
So, we have arrogant Leonine time-sensitives who Walz off with Romana and K9 after they’ve stuck two furry fingers up at a feeble crew of gitty humans reminiscent of the crew of The Nostromo. And they all live in a yellow submarine… sorry in pocket Universe, like the inside of a ping pong ball. And it’s in an even worse state than our one even after The Master got his mitts on it.
Otherwise, what the hell is happening? I suspect the Lion people (who do remind you of Ashildr’s friend in Woman Who Lived) deliberately shipped the rubbish humans up in the plughole at the end of Universe knowing THEY can get out easy, but the morons can’t because, as K9 keeps reminding us, the Universe is collapsing.
So the cats escape to Valhalla where cat lady Romana decides to feast with them for all eternity. You would have thought that should be Adric, but Lalla would really much rather dodge that vaunted desk job on Gallifrey. At least Adric get’s to deliver the apt and immortal line ‘I feel so useless!’
Then Tardis dematerialises for N Space though it’s not really explained how. The mechanics had supposedly been quite fraught until then. Lost in the rewrite maybe?
The ep is a curiosity, walking the walk well for early 80’s Who, but can’t actually talk. The whole season is a mixed bag, treading water until Tom was gone, without a nailed on classic like City of Death/Ribos Operation/Fang Rock etc. However, each of the next three series did manage one pearl each, even with JNT in full sail; Barry Letts was actually still executive producer for season 18. Having said that, production decisions and poor quality control really began to take their toll after 1981; the Davison seasons also contain at least two utter clunkers each. I won’t be reviewing those!
1 October 2025 at 13:12 #78154Further on with Series 18: State of Decay
Entropy
A fairly large pocket universe discovered by impossible coordinates.
A smaller one, collapsing.
Hard science at beginning and end.
A supered companion lost and a decidedly un super one gained
Bracketed by hardish (for Who) stories by Fisher and Bidmead; forming a sandwich for some extremely runny Camembert… sorry, fantasy.
Meglos. Do I want to see Tom Baker in cactus form again. No.
Full Circle. Do I want to hear Lalla Ward screaming at rather duff giant spiders. Not really. Alzeria is vaguely reminiscent of the Land That Time Forgot, or perhaps a deconstruction of the spaceship on the hostile planet trope. Which could be clever but I’m not sure anyone got it. I’m not sure I did at the time. And just when you thought you’d seen the last of Adric…
State of Decay. Not seen this before. I was temporarily in a household which objected to Who. It happens.
This story has a mixed reputation. No one is very keen. Some people compare it to The Horror of Hinchcliffe/Holmes but actually that itself could be quite varied. In my opinion, even the detractors are being extraordinarily kind.
It’s a spaceship on a hostile planet story, the hostility coming from a vampire beneath the spaceship which looks like a castle. Double take. WHATT??? THAT’S a SPACESHIP??!!! I would never have guessed. The vampire is the last one of its kind, defeated by The Time Lords at the dawn of time, well before The Jaggeroth, The Carrionites or The Racknoss. There were billions of years to spare in the olden times. Room to spread out and behave irresponsibly, bwahahah: a bit like driving in the 1930’s. Question is, this must be preCambrian at least, so why the folk memory of vampires? Passed on buy molluscs and fungi presumably? What’s with the bats?? And the Vampires are ridiculous. Entropy gets a kind of look in via Grimm’s sound law, so Commander Sharkey becomes Vampire King Zargos. Sigh.
They BIG problem with State of Decay is episode 3. By then, it’s SO obvious what happened/what was going to happen/but no, The Doctor is required to spend most of the ep having a slumber party with K9 gossing about stuff he should know already, but checking the fine print with The Tardis Library, cos you would, wouldn’t you?
Let’s face it, this is stuff that Tom clearly doesn’t want to engage with. There he is, looking at the prospect of the next scene with Matt and Lalla, hair kinda giving up, thinking ‘it’s just me! I might as well be on my own…’
It’s almost worthy of Chib really, though not quite as dire as Underworld. Has no-one realise Underworld was so bad?
Having said that this is the low point, things actually look up after this though the general trend is downhill. But Chris does his best: and no one had yet imagined what the likes of Eric Saward might do to the show.
28 September 2025 at 11:09 #78153The Leisure Hive
I thought I’d indulge myself a bit before diving back into the Chib endgame. The temptation is to luxuriate in Hinchcliff/Holmes but really what does that tell you? Holmes could write dialogue and Mary Whitehouse got unreasonably annoyed. Instead I thought I’d examine the evidence behind my reaction to The Chibnall era, and look at 4’s last series, #18, the start of The Jonathan Nathan Turner’s tenure.
So, Douglas Adams had departed for The Restaurant at The End of The Universe, and Chris Bidmead became script editor, declaring a desire to go back to sci fi basics, and coming across rather like Graham Chapman imploring the rest of the Python crew not to be silly. At the time I thought bring it on. The reality was quite different.
Rather than Manichaean tutelary beings (don’t you just hate those), Chris makes entropy and collapse the season’s theme; this was to be the end of the Baker era. So, no jokes made at the expense of legless daleks or detachable Movellan power packs but actually there’s not really that much science. If Nation and Adams had thought about it, they could have gone for the triple crown in Destiny of The Daleks, and made some very relevant comment about the problem of evolving a biological wheel. Chris’s contribution seems to amount to ‘you better watch out cos I’m sure the chaos is gonna get you, yeah.’ Most of the series actually dabbles unashamedly with fantasy stylings.
The big changes are down to Nathan Turner: question marks on Baker’s collar and a new scarf); new gaudy screechy titles; Adric the Jammy Dodger; K9 blows up repeatedly before it’s finally written out; ugly new synthesised incidental music; and a pitch at the Australian market in the erm body of Janet Fielding. And the ‘Death in Venice’ long panning shot at the start of Leisure Hive was JNT’s idea. Bye Tom. We’re off on holiday!
The Leisure Hive rarely gets a mention and there’s a good reason for that: it is barking mad. David Fisher drops tachyons on us but, quite honestly, this is a Gilbert and Sullivan non stop psychobabble fest. Oh well. Quite a lot of fun though.
So, someone is trying to sabotage the Argolin Leisure Hive, the sole economic activity left to a race defeated and sterilised in a nuclear war. As a metaphor for (pre Thatcherite) post industrial Britain, that’s pretty damn brilliant. Turns out criminal elements of the Argolin’s arch enemies, the Foamasi (not quite an anagram of Mafioso) want to bankrupt the Hive so they can pick it up on the cheap. We get odd glimpses of reptilian claws and eyes, and a human ‘skin’ found hanging in the wardrobe: all unintentionally hilarious.
Then there’s the Argolin’s heads, which resemble ice cream cones crowned with bejewelled top knots. When all the sprinkles have fallen out, the ice cream dies. I assume this is another reference to holidays but then, strictly speaking, Argolins should melt shouldn’t they? Or get attacked by gulls.
Turns out that the Tachyon generator is a front for an attempt by a genetically engineered crypto fascist to clone an army of himself.
Well, this is actually a tasty and powerful mix, sadly a little incoherent, but you have to admire the ambition.
When I first saw The Leisure Hive, on the back of seeing the rerun of City of Death and reading Bidmead’s sci fi manifesto, I wasn’t convinced exactly but I thought I’d give the series a chance. Unfortunately, next up was Meglos and Full Circle. Then I was denied access to a television for a few months. I’ve only just seen State of Decay for the first time. It’s pretty bad.
David Fisher seems to be quite a good writer: I need to check out his work on series 16 and Creature from The Pit.
Did he not want to work with JNT, who did seem to upset a lot of people in a very short space of time? It has also been pointed out that JNT was uncomfortable with established writers. Remind you of anyone?
27 September 2025 at 09:59 #78151earlier companions in opposition to The Doctor.
Not seen the movie for some time; and no plans to soon. So, I’ll start with…
Ace… *not really critical but kind of antagonistic. However, if anything, The Doctor is critical of Ace, as the first ‘supered’ companion. Ok Romana and Susan were technically Time Ladies but hardly supered at all.
Mel… do I have to? Propensity to force feed carrot juice does not equate to criticality.
Peri… ** yes. But can you blame her? The unfortunate outcome of many insane production decisions.
Turlough… *more simply antagonistic and unsympathetic. I suppose you might say the Universe was in a permanent critical position to 5.
Nyssa… not at all. Poor little endling adopted by 5. Literally. But no one ran with the idea, unless there was a brief nod in the change in costume in Snakedance and Mawdryn Undead. 5 ignores her. Equates to negative *
Tegan… *** heck yeah! Too much though. Then she got possessed by The Mara… I always thought that was very undersold by the writers… did JNT lose his nerve? But this was The Fam mark 1; you really don’t want to expend too much mental energy. She finally ran away in abject terror. Can only have been The Mara who dragged her back to The Tardis.
Adric… * toddlers can be critical
Romana… * #1 obvs. Permanently. But non human. Romana #2… interesting in that Baker started off very uncritical and then quite… and then they were married. Did that impact the writing… well Tom was apparently pushing his weight around by then. Romana’s ace card was the psychobabble chorus with 4. Inverse of exposition. The writers couldn’t keep it up.
Leela… * mutual criticality/incompatibility. Trouble was she was so damn useful. ‘Leela! Shank this reprobate good and proper.’ Finally shacked with Andred. Or was she really interested in Rodan?
Sarah Jane… ** could be extremely critical but only when well written. Given ludicrous final story.
Unit mob… not really companions, not even Harry.
Jo… nah
Liz… **oh yeah! But again, underwritten/undersold. What a waste.
Earlier, the production values and show development means the question is very different. And there are many companions I don’t really know. And a lot is missing too.
Zoe, Susan no.
Victoria driven by fear * and Steven, perhaps? He was a handful as I remember.
Jamie, Ian and Barbara** developed in occasional opposition to Doctors 1 & 2 as the titular character developed.
Interesting exercise.
27 September 2025 at 09:48 #78150Claudius. I can think of 4 or 5 quite horrible moments, done in such a matter of fact, unshlocky manner that the memory even now is really unsettling. But the ‘principal’ Caligula episode did have one scene, which received so many complaints, the offending seconds were cut immediately by the beeb themselves. And it was never restored. Quite possibly destroyed immediately. I’m not particularly outraged.
27 September 2025 at 07:52 #78148Finn finn Phineas Finn. Oh yes.
And I Claudius! I still remember the continuity announcer’s warning before the fall of Sejanus: ‘scenes of bl**dy mayhem!’ I think Jean Luc Picard always looked rather different to British audiences. And Caligula had barely got a look in by that point!27 September 2025 at 00:07 #78145Yes. Exposition, Comic Relief and Critique… could be a useful analytical tool. So, going back in time… criticality indicated by *
Belinda… ** really just a functional companion, being transported from a>b. But revealing of ‘The Doctor Question’ and so a little critical. Not really worked that part of the arc out though.
Ruby… really not critical at all, was she?
Dan… got to look at the last of 13’s specials before I judge. On the face of it mainly scouse.
Yaz… * critical in terms of the incipient relationship with 13.
Chucklegramps and Kid… sigh. Can you have a negative *?
Bill… ** started out very critical and that’s echoed again in Twice Upon, but the second half of that season, before the terrifying finale, was poorly written for Bill.
Nardole… was an alien (technically) and comic relief. Faux critical.
Clara… *** lots of opposition and angst. The most unhuman human companion really.
River… not sure if she’s critical or not. Essentially an alien.
Rory… ** critical at a lower level. Also Doctor proof (see God Complex)
Amy… really only faux critical. Unnaturally forgiving really. Cutie to woobie and back again.
Donna… **** has been called a mouthy cow. Bring it on!
Martha… *** varies but ultimately the spurned companion. Does she quit or has she outgrown him?
Jack… is he a companion? Or beefcake to The Universe? Unless you’re Rory, male criticality doesn’t seem to compute.
Rose… well this interesting. * She is critical but she’s clearly the romantic object and human. In that respect more like Yaz than Martha say.
Is that useful? Might look a classic Who too.
26 September 2025 at 09:17 #7813823 September 2025 at 11:35 #78126the animated arms are a bit distracting.
I think they should have cut to the remaining actual footage of Oak and Quill’s gas attack (kindly preserved by the Australian censors.) It is still absolutely terrifying.
Your library system sounds impressive!
22 September 2025 at 22:40 #78124So… Fury from The Deep… the last hour and a bit.
To be frank, and obviously this is animated, the second half didn’t have anywhere near the creep factor of the first. The sonic attack courtesy of Victoria was a long time coming and… just as Moff would have it, no one dies! Nothing for Mary Whitehouse to worry about at all really. But it have been a four parter. And there was some nonsense about mind triumphing over matter…
Production values were different. Victoria’s farewell was affecting. The idea that she was too terrified to continue is an ironic flip to all the gutsy Liz Shaws, Sarah Janes, and Leelas who were given rubbish send offs by writers who just want screamers. In Liz’s case no send off at all! Well not everyone can have a gruesome Peri/Bill demise. Imagine! Married to Brian Blessed! Or watching Harold Saxon preparing a fry up.
The animated helicopter ride does make you wonder what that would have been like in live action. Yes, I think of 12 and the mechanical horse.
Future echoes… not simply base under siege… Inferno, Seeds of Doom, Robots of Death… Waters of Mars, Oxygen, and The Well. My feeling is previous ‘siege’ stories were more monster based whereas these stories deal with primordial. Unfortunately, with Inferno, they tried to make the primordial literally into monsters. I shall never forget the look on Benton’s face…
8 September 2025 at 10:02 #78111It’s a bind.
On the one hand, why does The Corp insist on trying to ‘set the tone’ for the program? Why CAN’T Who be unashamedly kidult? Because it’s a scratching post for antiwoke, pro-bechdel, anti-exploitative, ‘loadarubbish/don’t understand’, don’t frighten the horses & is this where our license fee goes brigades. Most of the criticism sounds pretty unintelligent to the fan. But the program is made for a larger audience than the fans. What we need to do fight the ‘scratchers.’
There again, setting the tone is definitely part of The Corps job. And the job of whoever partners the funding of the show. Glitzy effects: the realisation of Wild Blue Yonder/The Giggle/Finetime/Lux/Story & Engine/Intergalactic Song Contest… was money well spent; Empire of Death and the Omega Zombie, less so. As long as we don’t get 12 on the back of a mechanical horse again.
The Camp Thing, I think, was a combination of Russ’ natural position, a way of ditching Chib pseudopuritanism, and his pitch to The Corp/Disney… this the way it will look. Shiny. Glitter.
I don’t mind it. The problem was the arcs, in terms of length and the VR thing, but in particular, RTD’s bette noir, the season ends.Like to hear more about these writers.
7 September 2025 at 18:26 #78107Not really sure if this should be here or on The Winchester. But there is no dedicated Second Doctor forum. And, with all the frightful C21st stuff happening out of the corner of our eye, I thought the faithful could do with something to help remove invaders from The Activity List.
So… Fury From The Deep 1968… the first burgeoning of The Base Under Seige. All lost bar audio recordings, the Tardis landing in the sea , reused in The War Games before it could lost, and Mr Oakes and Mr Quill, expurgated by Australian censors before broadcast (don’t frighten the roos!)
I’ve watched half so far, but for the reasons above, I thought I’d post now.
I’m grateful for the animation because it’s such an important episode… some people may not realise but the immediate impact was huge. This is the ep with the seaweed. I remember the foam, screaming, and older (mainly female) siblings being genuinely terrified. For another ten years, genuinely scary stories like Inferno, Terror of the Autons, and Ark in Space were compared with this.
You can find the original footage of Oakes and Quill can be found on the net and must be one of the main reasons for its reputation. You might conclude that’s be because intention is to horrify and it works. Mrs Harris is the victim, though nervous Vicky Waterfield also gets famously screamy.
Is it exploitative? Yeah! Or is this like Sarah Silverman channeling ‘something’ when Wreck it Ralph destroys Venelope’s Car? That is also VERY disturbing. And dramatically sound. Many more like this and Mary Whitehouse would have been twitchy five years early.
Mrs Harris also walks into the North Sea. And submerging. Oz was apparently ok with that scene!
The animation can he a bit duff. And production values were different even when you only have dislogue. But this rolls along at a pace, except for the suspense, which hangs around like wet kelp underfoot.
3 September 2025 at 14:18 #78105The Flux is upon us. Sontarans, Daleks and Cyberbods
2 September 2025 at 16:46 #78101@ dentarthurdent
Smith and Hurt are obviously first rank, though we didn’t know that about Smith in those days. Tennant seems slightly dazed to able to do his usual stuff and bask in thespie love. Billie more than holds her own. Assuming we get another series, that’s gotta be a good sign!
The Moment is DEFINITELY in The Tower, or was it The National Gallery? Cos Hurt had his ‘about time I grew up’ moment.
Nit picks. I probably DIDN’T connect ‘job’, ‘office’, and Zygon Kate. Not absolutely sure there ISN’T a plot hole or some fridge logic there, but you CAN get away with this when you don’t have to explain everything to Chucklegramps.
What? Is that me?
It’s official. Good ep.
New fav ep just suggested itself: The Pilot.
2 September 2025 at 16:19 #78100@dentarthurdent @whohar
VAR have confirmed… he never got it, at all. Ever1 September 2025 at 19:46 #78095As per The Winchester discussion, I did give this a whirl, and… it is still fantastic!
Three fantastic Doctors. And Billie.
Little nit picks: like the memory thing in the black archive. Does that mean Clara was briefly unsure if she was a Zygon or not? And, if the Earth was ‘ripe’ in 2013, and the Zygons had already broken into the black archive, why flash the VM base code around so arrogantly (unless they’re just arrogant)? And Clara needed a way out? And how did the Zygons know, or Clara, or The Doctor? Except Clara had told him she was in The Tower, during the witch/well discussion?? And improbably he remembered. Did I get that right? Timo Wimo might be over-plotting.
Did anyone else notice, in the first 15 mins, the set/up, 11’s eyes and brows intercut with Wardoc AND… 4/Curator??
But it is brilliant. The quibbles are minor. Contrast to T’floox, where (IMHO) all was quibbling confusion and we struggled to find any there were hints of brilliance. Perhaps the disposal of The Fam allowed a little bit of light. But you can’t retcon The Fugitive Doc. How is that supposed to work, Chris?
That’s all to come. I wonder if the fiftieth anniversary special was the point at which Who became interesting to third parties as Russ had always intended. Stakes had been raised. Moff was now too idiosyncratic and The Corp out of its depth. Two series later ‘Husbands’ and ‘Mysterio’ were shamelessly touting for the main action.
31 August 2025 at 20:51 #78093I shall have to rewatch Day of The Doctor. No great hardship.
Highlights… 10 in Elizabethan England, The Moment, Jenna Coleman settling into the role… and Bill’s mum running for cover (same actress)! If only they’d persuaded Timothy Dalton and Lee Evans to return. Actually, not a problem: it’s practically perfect.
Oddly, I’ve not read many Who novelisation’s. I have got Fury From The Deep, because the show itself is lost. And it was the most mythically sofa-hidingly and terrifying one of the lot. ‘Oh my god do you remember the one with the seaweed?’
So, I’ll watch the animated recreation of FftD after DotD. Then the 2 Mara stories, cos they’re out there somewhere. Then Caves of Androzani (3 Davison eps??) and Blink.
That will build me up for Eve of the Daleks.
Then I’m into pre xmas viewing. Looks like I’ll have to line my own fave up for the day.
26 August 2025 at 21:12 #78090I know that Mandela did not die in prison and that he became president of South Africa. These are strange times. There may be people out there, right now, who can’t accept that truth. I know Harry Enfield’s Mandela sketches are now considered unbrosdcastable. A lot has changed in 15 years. They actually mocked celebrity endorsement, but their creator doesn’t consider the point worth disputing.
Obama and Clinton taking selfies? Was this before or after Barak told Trump ‘I’m something you never be… POTUS’. Hmm was that really a good move? Maybe the liberal elite did appear that entitled and arrogant, depending on your specs, at the time.
A stitch in time is an old saw, oft abused by literary idiots. It’s not in Chrissies Transcripts, and I’m happy that Wrack always said ‘time stands still.’ It’s The Doctor’s miraculous survival in Eternity that taxes me, like Timelash. Weak scripting. But no Myrka.
23 August 2025 at 09:23 #78088We’re only going to meet Mickey again in another universe.
Another Tardis…? But NOT Clara (or presumably Ashildr)? Actually I suspect The American Diner might be the same Tardis: see Name of The Doctor.
I note from Flux that the Sontarans seem to have got over the Briode Nebuliser/Kartz Reimer issue. Perhaps Strax could cook up a steam-punk KR machine for Vashtra and Jenny.
Could someone nick The Master’s Tardis? Mind you Lucy got exploded and other associates tended to end up in burger buns, or turned into action figures.
Davros is a clever chappie; I know he loves his children but don’t you think he would work out that he should avoid The Genesis of the Daleks at all costs? So, somehow, a Kaled ends up wandering the universe with a genetically impure sidekick. But NOT Davros.
But if there was a special series along these lines, can it NOT be ‘special’ like Flux? Please. I’m getting worried about the impending Sea Devil thing.
22 August 2025 at 10:10 #78086@devilishrobby @blenkinsopthebrave @janetteb @nerys @translatorcircuit
So, your reading of “with or without Disney’s involvement” is that The Mouse is still interested, whereas we all thought he’s skipped away? But why go if he’s interested? They want a better deal. Yeah, that could be out of Trump’s playbook.
But do we know they are still negotiating? Anybody heard anything? This could be just a form of words, saying we’ll work with Disney or another streamer, but only WITH them… ie the show remains free to air for license payers. Or we do it on our own. And it’s free to air. For now.
Obviously, lots of noises being made on that score but no immediate solution forthcoming.
19 August 2025 at 22:48 #78080The Vanquishers
Right… Who are these Vanquishers? The Doctor, split into 3? Her motley crew? The Sontarans, who stitch up the other two mook armies? Or The Uglies, with their pseudo religious devotion to Time?
Or is it meant to be ironic because, whenever it was in December ‘21, absolutely everybody may not die, but the death toll must be rather more than nobody. More than under your typical Moff effort. Not saying this is itself necessarily an issue, but how do you play this? What is the message, Chris? War is stupid and people are stupid and people who do it should be sent to bed early? Do we care anymore? You see, I’m afraid this is a bigger mess than Apocalypse or O,UT.
Not saying there aren’t hints of something more interesting. Chris, as predicted, makes a good point about crisis and bad players. Then he casts his net wide: bad players includes Racial Supremacists, Religious Bigots and Spooks. Sounds great… what then does that make The Grand Serpent?
An oddity. Nonetheless, Chris’ imagination (and not just here) is often quite a scary place, with mass hostage taking, remote assassination, and asymmetric warfare. He’s making a big play about Real Politik and Post Truth and this ought to be really quite good. T’floox, for all its faults, IS better then the previous two series. Unfortunately, the results are only marginally better.
And the detail…
The Uglies and their deity seem like an oblique rehash of The Guardians and The Eternals. This just ISN’T interesting. At all. If they’d been more specifically Shakri-esque, I might have been intrigued.
As it is, the physics is dopey. Well of course, but this is dopey like the seventh dwarf.
And what was Tecteun’s plan again? She’s supposed to be ready to destroy the world to save an idea. This could be a metaphor for a multinational or security organisation or a collapsing civilisation. In fact it’s almost the famous trope: ‘woobie, destroyer of worlds’ which really should be fun. But having gone for it and seccesfully trashed at least some of the Universe, Tecteun then tries to bargain with The Doctor. She even offers to save The Earth. Sentimentality? Or manipulation?
Otherwise, why Diane? No really? Why? At least Bel and Vinder expand the narrative. Diane spends 5 eps stuck in a passenger form. Dunno why. Claire, another enigma, and good ol Jericho are terribly heroic. They suffer, but do they understand?? Do we?
Next… I’m going to say it. Is Prentis the Mara? In which case does he personify mass psychosis, as opposed to other mundane modern monsters?
And the Doctor spilt in three is like O,UT all over. There are some references to her fancying herself ala 11 with bow tie and Fez whether he’s at River’s birthday twice over or not. Jodie doesn’t seem that happy to sell this idea. In fact, we know multiple Doctors don’t work. Doctor lite might be better: tough to write I admit, but Chris seems to think he’s quite clever. Dunno why. This ep owes lots to Logopolis, The Stolen Earth, Pandorica and Name of The Doctor; none are exactly quicksilver but this is really quite dumb.
Karvanista takes news of genocide like Thatcher has just shut down his coal mine.
Oh. And Sontarans and chocolate. Really?
It’s a sorry mess, isn’t it? Have I said that already? OK, a bit better than the rest. Gawd elp us.
17 August 2025 at 21:57 #78079Forget dates. I just wonder why some random date is sometimes quoted by the writer. Yes, Village was broadcast on that date but Chibnall didn’t have to be so precise. Is it a nod to the discerning fan?
Of more importance is The Master’s timeline. 3 and Delgado, unless it was 5 and Ainley, may have talked about remaining ‘relative to each other within the causal nexus’. Seriously, are they continually interacting? And do we think The Master is actually that bothered?
More precisely…
Saxon was sure he would become Missy. Missy was evasive.
Missy boasted she could use a death ray to charge up a vortex manipulator/teleporter.
Missy was surrounded by Daleks on Skaro. Someone got zorched on Skaro and 7 took the remains to New York.
Spydoctor has Tremas Doctor’s Tissue Compression Eliminator. Or vice versa.
Max Capricorn had gold tooth like The Toymsker’s. And the tooth really did THAT ✨. Maybe that’s a bit silly.
We see mainly The Doctor in what seems to be a logical narrative sequence because the narrative is about The Doctor and we need to grasp it. Ignore T’floox for the moment.
In any case, as two time travellers, who only occasionally interact, does this logically have much bearing on The Master’s Timeline?
Another thought. The Doctor asks Cuddly Tecteun if what Spymaster said was true.
Significant pause… no? Wasn’t there? A moment of doubt or calculation. Tecteun says, ‘yes.’
1. Does she know what Spymaster said? If so, how?
2. Did she tell Spymaster what to tell The Doctor? And was he a dutiful and accurate mouthpiece?
3. Were the two of them actually in the destruction of Gallifrey together?
4. Is T’floox actually about destroying The Master?
17 August 2025 at 18:17 #78078Survivors of T’floox
So, The Angels have powers we never imagined. And they’re cruel and vindictive. And work for Division. OK. Could be.
However, will someone explain Tecteun’s motivation in destroying the universe and then removing The Doctor in case she stopped the destruction? Except she then offered to take The Doctor with her and save the Earth… or was it just to be saved because Prentis is one of her stooges who is going to let the ravening hoards have it? The ultimate revenge?? See what I do to your toy, Doctor?
And why is Tecteun called Awsok, bearing in mind I’m not sure we heard anyone ever call her that? And Prentis, for some reason, has the same name as the Tivolian stooge from Under The Lake. Surely shome mishtake?
Also, how exactly did The Uglies get released? Was it T’floox did it? Or do they somehow aid T’floox and were let out on purpose only to get sucked down the plug hole at the end?
Cos that part didn’t really work out. Hmm. Disappointing end for Cuddly Lady. Suspiciously so. There are other candidates for The Doctor’s Mother and I think The Doctor knows it. Therefor The Doctor may think the restoration of her memories would be a mind control technique.
We’ll meet Cuddly Lady again. As soon as we get Who back (sigh). That doesn’t mean this story isn’t being undersold.
Maybe it’s all gonna come out. Bel and Vinder are members of The Division too, aren’t they? They know too much about Passengers and Vinder was Prentis’ sidekick. I don’t mean The Tivolian.
Williamson has finally been revealed. Personally, if Chib had to base the end of The Universe on Liverpool, couldn’t it be to do with Eric’s in 1979? Or The Liver Birds (the sitcom)? Or Husskison getting run over?
The messing about in The Belle Epoque was almost droll… I nearly watched it all in one go. But also quite annoying. Contrast with Doctor lite action like Left Turn or 73 yards. Not sure why they’re bothering with all the Indiana Jones stuff anyway. Jericho has deteriorated from an tortured but heroic character into a spare wheel, there to squeak should anyone wonder what Yaz and Dan might do together when they got bored.
And what happened to Claire?
I hope my questions get answered in part six. Not very optimistic though. The thing is, there is something engaging here. Once Chib can control his instinct (or instruction) to be tedious, the story tends to the epic. But is this newfound epic nature, his or Cartmel 2.0: the overarching plan, hinted at by Moff in 2015, whereby The Doctor’s backstory is explored and extended?
And can just say, having given the pack a chance… The Lupari are rubbish. They’re only there so The Earth doesn’t get Roger Dean’d in The Halloween Apocalypse. Bad dogs.
I’m sure there must have been a better way to tell this story but Chib’s not to know that.
16 August 2025 at 23:15 #78074Village of The Angels: The Afterthought.
Do you remember my date theories? Significant dates of eps. Dates mentioned in eps. For November 21st (Village of the Angels) there are two other eps.
1. Dalek Invasion Earth: Could this have been a flux event? If so then that’s definitely a retcon. That is plans start with Andrew Cartmel and he was six at the time. But it’s also the last appearance of Susan. Clearly significant in the era of RTD2
2. Face The Raven: The Doctor gets extracted, but this time by The Timelords. Or did he? Could The Division have had a hand? If so… and it’s a big if, is this ANOTHER retcon? Or Cartmel 2.0? Got to control continuity. There MUST be a plan.
The latter might add extra weight to Russ and Moff’s loyal defence of The Timeless Children. This was NOT simply Chib’s fault; it’s the way he tells em.
Now, that whole story series 8 & 9… how did this Confession Dial malarkey start? Well, yes, it’s a story but how do people, Moff whoever, make stuff up? And know it will make sense. This is straight after Missy suddenly appears with rather more Cybermen than you can shake a stick at? Why exactly did she think The Doctor needed an army? Against who?
Also how exactly could Danny extract the dead Afghan Kid from the Data Slice? What was Clara supposed to do with him? It’s like something out of a dreeeam. Not just that: where did Orson Pink spring from? With a testimonial from The Tardis no less!
And what else can be done with a Data Slice? Does a Data Slice generate AI? (You bet) Why does the same volcanic landscape appear both in Dark Water and Last Christmas?
Why does Missy make a great play about recharging a VM from a death ray? She says The Doctor thought it up but we only get to see her do it.
Then we see her get zapped by Saxon who, dying and incapable, heads down into a hold full of Cybermen.
Missy gets cornered on Skaro. The Movie<span class=”Apple-converted-space”> </span>Master is executed on Skaro.
Why is there a lone, semi-converted Cyberman at The Villa? Maybe conversation failures are deleted before we get to see them. Maybe there was a reason Ashad didn’t work… like an incompatible substrate… or someone mucked up the parameters. Wonder Who?
Then there’s Claire’s DoB… 13th May: The Mutants?? Rise of The Cybermen (oh yes) and Oxygen.
13.05.85 would have been right after the fateful season 22, when season 23 had to be rewritten. Make of that what you will.
16 August 2025 at 21:53 #78073@janetteb @ dentarthurdent
thank you. Village is obviously streets ahead of the rest. Not perfect but I could virtually watch it in one go: always a good sign. The previous 2 were poor but not as disastrous as most of series 11 or 12. Most of that is down to ‘the chuckles’ I’m afraid.
Chib is a mystery wrapped in an enigma submerged in disinterest. I may have to introduce some related bonkerising on Sofa 11. Yes, I have theories!!
Chib was not just an accident waiting to happen. This happening is to do with The BBC. I don’t rate Chib but these are not necessarily the three series Chib wanted to make.
16 August 2025 at 12:03 #78071The Village of The Angels
Toward the end of O,UT, The Doctor says to Dan ‘you have no idea what you’re dealing with. I do.’
Phew, THAT’s a relief!
Mind you, in Village, she also says ‘I’m many things but I’m not ridiculous.’ And… I’m not so sure.
There are moments when you wonder if Chib fully realises what he’s written. That is it’s not a million miles away from The Brigadier’s dad saying, ‘yes, one imagine those words attached to some meaning or other.’ Well, a few hundred miles then.
Here I am, fourth time in a row, dead-panning the snark. Is this the behaviour of a rational being?
However, Village comes with recs. It hits ground running. This is good for Chib. Mind you The Angels come with problems. They once were all cthonic, elemental and curiously unlethal but damn inconvenient. Next thing you know they’re snapping people’s necks and talking trash with The Doctor. They finally set up an elaborate time factory in 30’s New York to torture Pond, and Mr Pond. This is fine. Less I’m afraid IS more, the sequel was never going to be as amazing as Blink but all that happened on Moff’s watch. Gotta be careful with other children’s toys, Chris!
There are also echoes of ‘Hide’ by Neil Cross: psychic experiments and shrinking universes. Good ep! It now strikes me that Akhaten, also by Cross and rather less groovy, was nonetheless not dissimilar.
Please note: Village was co-written by Maxine Alderton who did Villa of The Bad Boys. Maxine seems to make a difference: dialogue snappy; characters, good and bad, are engaging; The Doctor, relatively unridiculous. Yaz and Dan get good lines and respond well. As an indirect criticism of Chib, this is nothing new. Got to wonder why Maxine isn’t writing for RDT2. Can we have her, Moff, Whithouse, Matthieson and maybe Pete McTighe?
Not everything works: the final chase down the tunnel; what happened to the people in 1901?; Belsen gets tossed out in typical Chib fashion (that is he might get away with it but he’s got form); and the stuff going on with Ugly Git minor and tamagotchi woman rather lets the gas out. Still, this is possibly the best Chib era ep to date. Some others might have got there if not for Chucklegramps and Kid.
The question is, once Steptoe and Son had been parked, why did it take four eps to produce a proper story?
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