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Once, Upon Time (T’floox 3)

Did someone say title of T’floox 2 is a bit ‘This of That’? At least it didn’t alliterate metonymically.

I don’t want to say I like T’floox 2 because it has so many problems: Gung ho Dan; slaggin The Wirral, ‘calm down calm down’; Logan’s guiltily satisfying and violent revenge is somehow not sold at all; the ugly twins going deadpan snark with Passenger spinning the decks, what a hip-hop group they would make…

Don’t get distracted. ‘War’ was almost acceptable. I mean it’s main virtue is that this moves more quickly than the handful of OKish stories from series 11. Bar Byron’s Italian shenanigans, it’s better than anything in sorry series 12.

Onwards… titles… O,UT… is that the hint of a subscript Chris? We gotta get O,UT of this place?

O,UT intrigues… it kind of nods to Twice Upon a Time, even as Chris’ Division backstory renders ‘1 meets 12’ meaningless. It seems to reference Moff era timey wimey reality implosions like Big Bang and Wedding of Song or ‘wrong’ worlds like Forest of the Dead or Turn Left. You get the feeling this could be the Big One, the lynchpin of the whole sorry mess. Then you learn that ‘Time’ which The Doctor was Upon, Once, is actually just a planet… uh?

So… anyway, Time has gone weird and everything happens all at once. The Doctor raids The Temple of Atropos and comes across like poor strange ijit boy Brendan from Ascension, or like something out of a dreeeam… The triangle priest lamps speak like Berkoff the Shakri. This DOES seem like what Chris really wanted to write all along. The two tedious series prior, led to this: a mind-bending series of interlocking revelations. And perhaps he decided it should be more organic, subtle (no, don’t laugh) without the symbiotic Tardis, the ‘old girl’ taking The Doctor where she needed to go. Not so much lots of little things happening and revealed as something big, as SUDDENLY! Nothing happens…

Until it does.

Maybe story arcs ARE the problem. Fans learn the tells and it becomes a bit annoying. Could arcs, like Cartmel 2.0 be on The Corps crud list? Don’t get fancy, just wheel out a monster.

But Who can’t just be about a madman (or woman) in a box, with or without a ‘Fam’. Chris needs an alternative: the Doctor WITH a job, and not with UNIT: new territory, experimental and bold. Hmmm. But Chris… will anyone know what’s going on?

Also Chris’ assessment of his own abilities might be a bit inflated.

Nonetheless, we get to see his special moves. Too much. It starts promising, then gets messy, though not that hard to follow really, if anything it’s over explained, 3 times over cos we now seem to be Fam quorate. Oh for 11, popping here and there with VM, Fez and mop. ‘Come along, Pond!’

Yes, can we figure it out on our own? I dunno.

The major villains get wheeled out but they’re just mook wallpaper, it’s the dayglo blue stuff that’s really lethal.

The psychobabble is off the scale. Or is someone going to tell me this bit, which I strongly suspect may have been Written in Crayon, could be related to developments in theoretical physics. No? No, I didn’t think so.

But we do get to see Jo working nine to five. Not sure you could write that hostage situation now. The old gits are younger and philosophically opposed to the presumably emerging Gallifreyan civilisation. So are they murderous or misunderstood? The (lack of) noses doesn’t help, and they’re getting through Passengers like Spinal Tap with drummers. The Mouri are presumably spectral Sisters of Karn. Mad Regency bloke turns up again. No idea who Bel is (yet) but she has a tamagotchi!

That the mooks should be trying to carve up a universe falling apart might be an even more powerful story… imagine Pepperpots, Cyberium and Potatoheads going post truth and justifying their totalitarian deckchair rearrangement to the masses. I would have led with that Chris, then drilled down for T’floox.

The closest he gets is Vinder’s dubious promotion; every time someone unveils a character like The Grand Serpent, I ‘Kinda’ feel like ‘Dancing.’ But this seems to be ‘Dot’ Cottan, ‘The Caddy’ from Line of Duty. Ohhh.

Nonetheless, Vinder’s dilemma really resonates and very nearly saves the ep: certainly better than Yaz revisiting the last two unfortunate years and picking up a Weeping Angel on the way. Dan searches for Diane to prove he’s not made of cardboard. Though, I must say, John Bishop is not just streets ahead of Bradley Walsh, he seems to be the real deal.

Then cuddly lady turns up and admits she did it, but it was The Doctor’s fault! What the hell cuddly lady??!!

Well, it’s not the disaster that was reported. Potentially a good story but it actually owes a lot to The Stolen Earth, Big Bang and The Silence; and the whole arc should be told differently.

I haven’t really got 3 more eps to go, have I?

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@dentarthurdent

the beta text or whatever it is means I pasted my spiel and then edited it, did something it didn’t like and then navigated away. Strangely, it sounds like Whovian space-time coordinates. I wonder if that where they first originated?

Sorry to go on at such length. I am being unfair because all Who writers have and will continue to be guilty of the same quirks and lazy tropes as Chib, just less frequently and egregiously. WiC. Though, as I say, The Corp also bears responsibility.

The Flux is kind of preferable to what we were initially served up after Moff because the Fam have been decimated and the nonsense appears, on the face of it, less random.

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The War of The Sontarans.

‘I don’t understand it and I hate not understanding!’ sez The Doctor at the end of Halloween Apocalypse. Welcome to the world of The Chibnall Who Critic, Doctor.

That is unfair. I was unfair last time, I suppose. Why not just say, ‘I don’t like Chib’s writing’?

OK, I don’t like Chib’s writing. In addition to which I suspect The Corp also had a fair old go at the institution of Who. Well, what else is it there for? Obviously NOT controlling arrogant and overpaid misbehaving stars. But, RTD & Moff both being very slightly suggestive in front of kiddie winks is NOT to be countenanced!

Anyway T’floox seems to be Davros’ Reality Bomb with added timey wimey. Looks suspiciously ununiversal me, don’t you think? This happens. The Daleks tested The RB on the cast of Goodness Gracious Me and Eastenders. Tremas’ Entropy Scam happened on a scanner. The Pandorica and Trenzalore put some lights out. Universal Obliteration might be a tad underwhelming from the inside.

Also, if T’floox is so pant-wettingly lethal, how can Lupari ships be designed to resist it with a fancy manoeuvre they don’t know? Maybe T’floox ain’t got enough Z neutrinos. Screwfix ran out or something. And why should a species be bonded to humans? Apart from the dumb joke potential. And amazingly they also have something to do with The Division, who we’ve never heard of before because of a Mind Wipe?

There is Narrative and there is WiC. He’s making it up as he goes along. In Crayon.

Miss! I don’t like Chris’ writing.

On the face of it, The War of The Sontaras might be a bit fun. Not a cast of thousands. Understandable in 2021. Gatiss managed to make Godsacre and Catchlove living breathing caricature but Logan just looks like a thin line from the side.

Mary Seacole, much favoured by the GCSE syllabus and Horrible Histories could be given a more interesting intro than ‘oh! You must be Mary Seacole.’ Or, why not give that line to Yaz or Dan?? Do they know nothing? Rose knew stuff and she was a chav. Martha saved the lives of fish people. Donna wowed The Doctor with TV Trope jokes.

Y & D conveniently dematerialise. Williamson turns up and spouts gruff Regency gnomic stuff. And stomps off again.

Nontheless, I thought this iteration of the potato heads could be quite cool, in that Moff made Strax far too cuddly. On the other hand he was also an alternative. Strax can take his place in<span class=”Apple-converted-space”>  </span>human society and so reveal what it really is.

It’s like the Cybermen’s denial of<span class=”Apple-converted-space”>  </span>humanity or Daleks subverting the philosophy of humanism. Sontarans, left to their own devices, relentlessly pursue the most pointless and reviled human activity. So, what do they get out of T’floox? Unless that’s the point. Crisis will be exploited by war. And The Sontarans have replaced The Russians, because we know what they’re like, don’t we children? Yes, in 1850, mostly serfs. While The Chinese are reeling from asymmetric European narcotic attack.

What if you’d made it The American Civil War, Chris? Hey? Or WW1? Or Suez? Or Vietnam? Oh, but you’re not very good at this are you?

And there’s a Temple, too. It’s all a bit Elemental, a tad Guardianish. Watch out for low flying vultures. And The Doctor is pursuing Pooch because apparently he’s the only Division operative she knows. Does she assume the rest of her old mates are dead? Understandable: them death particles sound proper lethal. Alternatively, does she suspect there are other Time Lords still out there? See, we’ve been here before, haven’t we? Doesn’t The Doctor ever doubt what she’s told?

The Time Lords: a species so cr*p they had to be genocided twice. I’m not sure this can be adequately discussed in fiction, let alone sci fi. But The Doctor WILL apparently believe ANYTHING.

Question: is The Doctor… IDK… brain damaged? Just too many regens, wipes and Chameleon Arches? Or is this simply the lot of Time Lords? They know time is gonna scramble them sooner or later, which is why most stay home to become irritating bureaucrats. Or is this the next Cartmel phase, The Doctor is NOT the messiah but a genuine basket case, and Chib couldn’t or wasn’t allowed to bring this off?

But there is next to no Fam still. And only FEELS like a Timeless Children 1 hour special: you watch 25 minutes, switch off to breathe, and then you’ll only have to do it once more. There will be an end. Maybe next time someone will tell me what’s going on.

And I’ve done it again: tried to be fair to Chib, but the best I can say is one deluded man alone could not make this many poor production and writing decisions. The show IS in crisis and it’s NOT Chib’s fault. He’s just the mug left sitting in the cellar full of gunpowder with a box of matches.

For Chib, the villain is the Streamers with their nonsensical reboots (oh did anyone notice? Don’t matter, there will be another one along in a minute). Maybe he decided they should be meta’d as… The Flux!

For RTD2 it’s Continuity: the day destroys the night, the night divides the day… break on through…

Yeah, Russ, good luck with that.

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@dentarthurdent

Was this, purely hypothetical, acceleration enforced by Covid or by The Corp (because Chib was being politely shown the door, wasn’t he); or designed, because the previous two series were such dogs; or simply symptoms of narrative insanity?

All I can observe is something changed. And then Chib and Whitdoc were both gone.

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@dentarthurdent

I mentioned Diane but it was Claire being tragically meaningful of course.

There was an attempt to speed up story development. Is that the reduced number of eps or Chib trying out some Blink/Big Bang Moff style timey wimey? Or just a slimmed down Fam?

 

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Halloween Apocalypse

As promised/threatened.

I’d given up by this point: not really watched Who properly since Fugitive, having lost patience with The Battle of Stupid and Pratfall. So I missed Revolution… apparently Granddad went. And Our Kid. Whoopee!

Thesis: you COULD have Granddad on his own. IMHO rather dull. Or you COULD have Kid, that might be the best way to make the character meaningful. Though you’d still need to write for him. You might be justified in having both together but only for one season, and if one finally killed the other. Not fussed which one.

But, what you definitely CANNOT have is chucklegramps AND chucklekid, AND Yaz. Nonetheless, it took two series to flush them away. Even once you’ve finally done that, you really have to improve the writing.

And this does have a feeling of a reset. And I am aware that Covid forced a truncated series 13. The thing is, I suspect by this point Chib had more or less given up the ghost; squaring the contradictory demands of The Corp had become too difficult.

So, what do we get? Apparently we’re halfway through one story. OK. Moff did that a lot. But this is a bit desperate. The Doctor and Yaz are off to see not a man about a dog, but an actual dog. Cue to laugh like a dog. But hold on, Yaz is also revealed as a functionary! Never mind exposition and comic relief, were the Fam only ever three cardboard cutouts: people Whitdoc could babble nonsense at? There, I’ve said it.

So Yaz is, literally, hanging around with The Doctor. And there’s something a bit weird here to tell the truth. Right, we know The Doctor is stewing over The Division and Fugitive Doctor and the end of The Time Gits, but to have her say ‘aren’t you glad the chuckle family have wandered off’ is a bit off. By quite a long way. It’s as if Chib is forcing them to have a spat because that’s the only way he can imply that the Woman, who used to be a Man, might quite like another woman. Mr Cholmondly-Warner thus reveals their utter female irrationality. It’s like Miss Marple has discovered something deep disturbing in rural England. What stuff did Chib used to write…? Oh yeah.

Now, I’m guessing this move is in fact contrary to Corporate Instruction. But, hey, doesn’t matter because nothing is ever going to come of it. Nonetheless, it’s neither subtle nor funny, and Chib knows this because the next glove puppet to appear is a Scouser: a Real One, but the way Chib writes em, John Bishop might as well be built of uPVC.

Well, if Russ can rib the Welsh in 73 Yards, then surely Chib can have some gentle fun with Merseyside? I certainly don’t want three pugilists in shell suits growing Jimmy Case taches and calling ‘calm down, calm down.’ I LIKE John Bishop; there are bits of him vs Rolf the implausible dog alien that very nearly make me smile. But is Rolf a Yorkie or a Patterdale? Then John has a ‘you are Leeds’ Stone Roses rock Elland Road moment with Yaz. See, I recognise this stuff. But is it funny? Chib is the man who wasted the talents of a robotic Mitchell and Webb double act. I suspect Stephen Berkoff gurned and extemporised his own deadly mumbles for Power of Three because no one present had the courage to tell him ‘no.’

Then there’s the psychic thing. Last seen in The Deadly Assassin with further hints in The Two Doctors… because there were two Doctors, I suppose. Nonetheless, you could call that form. I reckon it’s either lazy writing or a duff Marvel Move as recommended by The Corp. But what is there to like about ugly monsters from beyond the dawn of time? Apart from the trope? Oooh. The dawn of time must have been an ugly camp catwalk. Also, in the words of Borat, why are you selling me old sh*t?

This is the bit that was Written in Crayon. Chib needs his Crayon Box to construct an arc, something he has studiously avoided until the first hints in Fugitive. Yes, I’m ignoring the ridiculous villain who habitually stuck victims’ teeth in his own mug.

Or, is this actually Cartmel 2.0, as per Moff’s reported sketch c2015? Was Chibnall not bothered to flesh it out with proper grown up development? Not saying the same problem was never encountered during Moff’s tenure; the Silence arc was never properly resolved IMHO. But I’m quite certain RTD1 never seriously indulged.

But Written in Crayon, or WiC as I shall henceforth refer to it, appears to be a specific reaction to Marvel and Gradean gripes about Who not being proper SciFi. Gatiss is wrong; it’s not the Old Fans, it’s the New Streamers. To Chib’s desperate mind, did the latter become all meta and bring forth T’floox???

Then there is the small matter of coherence. The previous season hadn’t exactly helped me wrestle with TTC so it would be a leap of faith to think even a full series 13 would sell the idea to me.

I’m reliably informed that Mr Williamson’s subterranean shenanigans wasn’t some real estate scam. Some laughably tragic woman called Diane is presumably doing a far far better thing than turning down a dog of a Who script. And the ugly git from beyond the dawn of time has a slightly less ugly sister who has been slumming it on Earth with bad attitude. Sigh. Chib’s Who is still not an easy watch.

And you know, as soon as planets start dissolving (don’t you hate it when that happens?), that it presages a reality bomb/end of time/all the stars going out moment.

Meh. This defines boredom. Just get a life Doctor: go and save someone worth saving.

Confession. Still not got to the end. I’ll post any errata on War of The Sontarans.

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@dentarthurdent @whohar

‘Macho’… even pre Chib Nuwho had Timelord Invictus, Good Man C*cks It Up Good and Proper, Epic Sulks, Confession Dials and Other Idiocies.

I’ve no quarrel with the ‘tone’ of RTD2, more the execution, which again may be down to the story. But will we ever know? Will a big break demolish the precious continuity? Can the beancounters finally ditch Cartmel 2.0 and get the nice safe show they always wanted?

The tetchiness of 15 and Kate I reckon is down to the Remembrance element of the October 5th connection. 7 had a damn good go at committing Genocide. Will that now be resolved?

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@whohar @dentarthurdent

The ending… it did seem like a bolt on. To the extent that, though there was supposedly a ‘reason’ to regenerate I just know, if I check it out, I’ll think it was nonsense.

It’s a pity because the rest of the series built up quite a head of steam, even if the ratings were in the basement. The worst regeneration story since McCoy had to don Baker’s coat of many colours and the curly wig. And I know everyone was desperate to be nice about Jodie Whittaker but… WHAT? Compare that to the gravitas of Karen Gillen (also in a wig) descending the stairs to talk to her Raggedy Man.

Oh for Saxon going doolally and stuffing pulled grease spot flipper in his brioche bun, or for Dalek/Cyberman dead pan snarly face offs, or even Davros technobabbling the reality bomb. Does the abstract threat of VR nullify the glorious nuttiness of an all out RTD season ender??

 

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@translatorcircuit

WOW! It really IS for pre-schoolers! Urghhh. I DO apologise. I GENUINELY thought that was a mistake/joke.

Embarrassing. Kids Show! Official.

So, the Venn Diagram HAS become THAT small. I don’t like it, and some noise might just help, but this COULD be the end. Though to be fair HE mentioned US, I mean us, the weirdos. In the minuscule Venn Bit. Whoever Tom Fussell is.

Expect the anti-woke brigade to proclaim a victory. Loudly. Annoyingly.

btw any tax system, not based on regular income/business/large individual expenditure, really is unenforceable. The only people who ever pay are those with some money who HAVE to. No point making it ‘fair’, if you can’t make ‘fair’ people pay. There’s no point in making people, who can’t pay, pay because they’ve nothing with which to pay. Unless you chip them at birth, so they’re always in debt. Ah. That’s The Sunmakers, isn’t it?

Best bet is a tax on streaming services, but not even Mark Carney can get that past Trump and his crawling, arrogant tech mates. Or The Usurians.

It’s The End of The World as We Know It and I haven’t felt that happy about things for a while (if you hadn’t guessed)

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@dentarthurdent

for the record, can I just say I have Nothing to do with Deep Thought… more like Roosta or maybe Zarniwoop.

Seriously, can someone string up the non sci fi focus groups and actually do research and writing?

Russ season enders? MHO:

Good (but not that good);Bad Wolf plus, Army of Ghosts/Doomsday; Utopia plus

Indifferent; Stolen Earth+, End of Time, The Giggle,  Reality War.

Bad; The Umpire of Dearth

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@translatorcircuit

I think you mean CBBC not Cbeebies. If DW IS indeed being pitched at pre-schoolers then, yes, the end has come.

And perhaps… the end has come. Can you square the iconoclastic demands of the frothing anti-woke brigade with trimming critiques of beancounters and filmschool script neuterers who would much rather be talking about a soap? DW has ended up as a very small Venn diagram indeed; therefore a rapidly shrinking audience. Possibly all that is left is continuity.

I’m not sure it is just DW. I have said before that I’m fussy about scifi, but the televised genre seems to be in some trouble.

Severence is cool. Silo is slightly meh/downright dodgy. One day someone will strap me down subjected to Clockwork Orange stylee eyeball clamps to make me watch Foundation. I’ve managed 10 minutes so far: sententious exposition, infantilisation, the inability to drop a bridge on key characters, and some bright spark obviously had the blinding insight that Cleon is an anagram of clone. Duhhh oh yeh!

Ok I didn’t get all of that from the first 10 minutes. I was looking for reasons to stick with it because I like early Azimov. Obviously my mind is too highly trained.

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@dentarthurdent

You may not have registered certain recent UK government climb-downs; Trump does tend to drown everything else out but the ableist/disableist debate is extraordinarily relevant to the UK. Certainly not merely ideological. Spot on Russ. That wad the best bit.

Not only is Dobson channeling Briers, Conrad is an echo of Pex from Paradise Towers. I think there is also a theme about Architects, see The Reality War. Nearly dropped a spoiler there.

15 married to Belinda. Well this is Conrad’s firmly traditional and het view of the world. But also 15 wondering where Susan came from. Was the discovery of Susan, presumably on Gallifrey, specifically the reason that 1 left?

To tell you the truth, I need to watch this ep, indeed both series again, now being aware of how (I think) Russ’ construction lines were calculated.

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@dentarthurdent
Key take-aways…

NOT that someone thinks Omega is coming through, why you would want that? But:

Poppy was in Space Babies… maybe she’s Russ’ fav child actress.

Poppy Honey is farmed on Hellias by Harmony Shoal.

It’s The Ranii’s VR, with Conrad utilising Male Supremacist Fantasy to keep it ticking… a bit like the ‘minor master’ from The Mindrobber.

IMHO Anita Dobson is still hamming it up left right and centre ala Richard Briars in Paradise Towers.

Key faces were missing from the Rani VR Unit. Sue Triad, Rose and The Vlinx?

The teaser shows a stasis cube labelled zeta alpha theta iota. I got quite silly over that. But it was fun.

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@dentarthurdent

I really liked ISC. It could have been a nondescript Chibesque Fam outing but this was done with a certain panache.

The blown into space section was of course problematic, though it looked a million dollars. Mavity is apparently at hand so maybe none of it was real…?

The glitter gun was surely a tribute to the McCoy opening credits.

Torturing Kid followed on from Kate losing her cool. Something going on, there. Remembrance (broadcast Oct 5th) was the destruction of Skaro. Delta waves are of course from Parting of the Ways. Hi Rose.

May 24th 2008 Silence in the Library was pushed back a week because of Eurovision. That leaves The War Games as the only previous May 24th ep.

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@dentarthurdent

List compiled in haste. I missed out The Mindrobber. And included Voyage of the Damned twice. Though it is fantastic. Yes, I like Russell having camp fun; it explains Love and Monsters.

Really, for 5&6 it is so tough to pick worthy eps but. Apart from the Mara stories and Androzani, very few were remotely acceptable. And then there is the dross.

But then the last 2 Tom Baker series were pretty ropey. And so was the first McCoy series. I gave up on Paradise Towers. 7 incredibly poor years. The peak was the Leela run up to and including The Sunmakers. Though the previous 2 years were almost as consistently good. And so Baker’s reputation rumbles on. However, you really MUST watch Ark in Space to Sunmakers.

Makes you realise why Nuwho series 3-10 made such an impression. You could nominate another 15 eps for that run.

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@janetteb

‘does it hold up?’ Sounds like time for a list! top 5 each Doctor anyone?

1 & 2 is difficult because so much is wiped and the production values are quite other…

1. Unearthly Child, The Daleks, Marinus… because it’s both complete and quite other, the Time Meddler, and whatever is left of Dalek Master Plan and 10th Planet.

2. The Evil of The Daleks, The Web of Fear, Fury From The Deep (reconstructed), Seeds of Doom, The War Games (too long but the recent hatchet job was a disgrace)

3. Spearhead from Space, Inferno, Terror of The Autons, Carnival of Monsters, The Time Warrior. Sorry, no Silurians. Getting the correct geological eon is not that hard.

4. The bar is high. Ark in Space, Pyramids of Mars, Genesis of the Daleks is too long but has to be there, Robots of Death and City of Death. And you know what? I really like the Leisure Hive.

5. The bar is lower. So… Four til Doomsday (huh? Did I say Revel Horwood could be a show runner? It’s a joke, a joke) Kinda, Snakedance, Frontios I suppose… Caves of Androzani. No, I don’t like Earthshock. What part of it is supposed to make sense?

6. Urghh. It’s nonsense but… Attack of the Cyberman I suppose for sheer chutzpah and invention. Then Vengeance on Varos, The Two Doctors, Revelation of the Daleks, Mindwarp.

7. I don’t know much about 7. Remembrance, Greatest Show, Ghostlight (on reputation), Fenric, Survival because the Doctor saves Ace.

8, War Doctor, 9 (see what I did there?): Day of The Doctor, Rose, Dalek, Empty Child/Doctor Dances, Badwolf/Parting of the Ways.

10. Could be the Moff Show: the bar is stellar; ha ha, Love and Monsters! Blink; flawed in many, many ways but… Utopia/Drums/Last of the Time Lords, Voyage of the Damned, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, Voyage of the Damned.

11.This is practically impossible. Amy’s Choice, Vincent, The Doctor’s Wife, God Complex, Hide. Eleventh Hour should be there but it’s Moff. We know Moff can do it.

12. Mission Impossible 2: Listen, Flatline, Heaven Sent, Oxygen, World Enough/Doctor Falls.

13. The bar is notional: Rosa, Kerblam, Villa… I understand there were other things that might not drive you to chew off your own leg. Yeah them.

14/15: Wild Blue Yonder, Boom, Dot and Bubble, The Well… & Story and Engine I suppose… only because it’s somehow more explicable than 73 Yards.

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@dentarthurdent
Yes, Who runs on meta: the Trial of Timelord; the Time War; perhaps t’floox was about linear tv’s competition from streaming?

The Sunmakers riffs on Holme’s tax arrangements, The Two Doctors on his discovery of vegetarianism. The Carnival of Monsters must be Who itself (and the mandarins who never understood the show). On the other hand The Twin Dilemma observes the delights of Anthony Stevens’ gastropod infested garden just before his typewriter literally exploded!

Meta on its own is not the answer. You do need the story. You need the problems thrown up by continuity. I’m afraid the mandarins, as well as the crits who never ‘got’ the show, still don’t understand why it can’t be a nice safe soap. Lots of dull stories happening all at once. No hifalutin.

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The key to understanding Midnight and The Well is the attack on identity: you’re talking over me: you’re not looking at me.

I have my own theory about where Russ is taking this. Let’s hope he gets the opportunity to see it through.

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@dentarthurdent

Is there a real philologist in the room? I’m sure they’d tell me I’m talking rubbish. I think Finnish is the closest thing to a genuine agglutinative European if not Indo-European language.

In Boom, 15 is told it’s Oct 5th. For no reason. The show wasn’t broadcast on Oct 5th. So I checked out previous stories broadcast on that date: Mindrobber, Towers and Remembrance. There are obvious parallels. I suspect a case of Russ constructing an arc under time pressure. Worth looking at the discussion ‘On the Sofa.’

Other interesting dates: May 24th… Russ had to skip  a week to accommodate a significant music program. Only ep shown on that date was The War Games, recently abridged and colourised. The Ep that got bumped to a week later was Silence in the Library.

And March 11th… double release of ‘Babies’ and ‘Devil’s Chord’… that equates to 2 Cybermen serials and PotS (ho hum) although that was a replacement for the abandoned’ Final Game.

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@translatorcircuit

Planet of the Spiders is serviceable but not Robert Holmes playing with tropes because he’s the MAN and he CAN.
Yes, Chris Bailey = The Mara. I’m a huge devotee of the Mara stories, yet so sad we only ever saw hints of a full BAMF Mara Empire. But then you really don’t want a rerun of Stupid Sutekh.

Anyway the Mara are on Harriet’s list. They don’t like mirrors and they loved mind games. To judge from Tegan’s issues, I’d worry about Belinda. And Poppy. But I’d love a reworking of the Dukkha meets Tegan in featureless mental wilderness. Want to be creeped out just like that.

I hope we get RTD back. You may be worried about the last series and the future, but 16/21 hit rate isn’t too bad. I think Russ will realise he needs some good writers and concentrate on script edding.

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@dentarthurdent

re German… almost an agglutinative langauge (ie you can almost shake and go any idea you like, but not quite).

Richard Briars was The Chief Caretaker/Great Architect in Paradise Towers. This is the era of casting the likes of Beryl Reid and Ken Dodd. A comic thesp giant whose stock was falling in the 80s perhaps. But it’s not just my opinion that Briars’ turn in Paradise was quite risible, possibly the inspiration for Dobson as Mrs Flood. That is Paradise, Remembrance and Mind Robber are all Oct 5th eps… see script for Boom.

yes, the central five is Lux>Interstellar. Nothing as cosmic as Dot & Bubble tho.

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@translatorcircuit

Yes. You don’t like Midnight or The Well.

Who resounds with superficial resemblances and echoes. But some ideas may be deliberately referenced. Paranoia is facilitated by people talking over you or continuing looking over your shoulder. It’s powerful stuff.

Where Midnight and The Well wins out is we are shown neither a man in a rubber suit nor a shonky arthropod on someone’s back. Turn Left is actually one of my favourites but then the bug was ostensibly borrowed from one of Russ’ kiddie spin-offs. The Spiders in PotS were laughable and the story was knocked together in a rush; the planned Master story was stymied by Delgado’s untimely death. Curiously PotS is a March 11th story so accords with my significant date theory… but never mind.

Personally, I think you’re looking in the wrong direction. If Russ’ Who does survive and, yes, the show may be under fire, expect Chris Bailey to get a credit, alongside Barry Lets and Pip and Jane Baker.
Clearly The Well is no more of a problem than The Woke. However, rushed writing and the decision to base whole arcs on VR may well be.

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@dentarthurdent

My last bid, thanks to google translate is

düsterbegründerfreude

= darklyjustifiedjoy

Conrad’s actor was brilliant. I’m sure most thesps relish dark scenery chewing. And they’re not all Richard Briars.

The central 5 of this series were as good as the ‘filling’ from the previous one.

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@dentarthurdent

not saying righteous glee is an old or new combo… and it’s not really a neologism. But the thing definitely exists.

Justified Poetic Appreciation maybe?

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@dentarthurdent

I suggest righteous glee

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Surely the worst case scenario?

Valid point about there being no cheap ‘in house’ option though. If a third party doesn’t like width, it won’t happen.

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@dentarthurdent

This was probably my favourite thus far, regardless of my will to spot continuity.

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@dentarthurdent @whohar

quotes. Yes Chrissie’s transcripts.

I think we were all gaping at the gasmask people and missed the dialogue. What a story.

 

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@whohar

OK this is all the metaphor/simile and innuendo from the script of Child/Dances/Boom Town. I think it all survived, but I’ll have to check.

JACK: Excellent bottom.
ALGY: I say, old man, there’s a time and a place. Look, you should really be off.
JACK: Sorry, old man. I’ve got to go meet a girl. But you’ve got an excellent bottom too.

JACK: Captain Jack Harkness, One Three Three Squadron, Royal Air Force. American volunteer.
(He hands her his ID card.)
ROSE: Liar. This is psychic paper. It tells me whatever you want it to tell me.
JACK: How do you know?
ROSE: Two things. One, I have a friend who uses this all the time.
JACK: Ah.
ROSE: And two, you just handed me a piece of paper telling me you’re single and you work out.
JACK: Tricky thing, psychic paper.
ROSE: Yeah. Can’t let your mind wander when you’re handing it over.
(She gives it back.)
JACK: Oh, you sort of have a boyfriend called Mickey Smith but you consider yourself to be footloose and fancy free.
ROSE: What?
JACK: Actually, the word you use is available.

JACK: Okay. This can function as a sonic blaster, a sonic cannon, and as a triple-enfolded sonic disrupter. Doc, what you got?
DOCTOR: I’ve got a sonic, er. Oh, never mind.
JACK: What?
DOCTOR: It’s sonic, okay? Let’s leave it at that.
JACK: Disrupter? Cannon? What?
DOCTOR: It’s sonic! Totally sonic! I am soniced up!
JACK: A sonic what?!
DOCTOR: Screwdriver!

JACK: Who has a sonic screwdriver?
DOCTOR: I do.
ROSE: Lights.
JACK: Who looks at a screwdriver and thinks, ooo, this could be a little more sonic?
DOCTOR: What, you’ve never been bored?

ROSE: Okay, so he’s vanished into thin air. Why is it always the great looking ones who do that?
DOCTOR: I’m making an effort not to be insulted.
ROSE: I mean, men.
DOCTOR: Okay, thanks, that really helped.

ROSE: He saved my life. Bloke-wise, that’s up there with flossing. I trust him because he’s like you. Except with dating and dancing. What?
DOCTOR: You just assume I’m
ROSE: What?
DOCTOR: You just assume that I don’t dance.
ROSE: What, are you telling me you do dance?
DOCTOR: Nine hundred years old, me. I’ve been around a bit. I think you can assume at some point I’ve danced.
ROSE: You?
DOCTOR: Problem?
ROSE: Doesn’t the universe implode or something if you dance?
DOCTOR: Well, I’ve got the moves but I wouldn’t want to boast.

JACK: As soon as I get the nav-com back online. Make yourself comfortable. Carry on with whatever it was you were doing.
DOCTOR: We were talking about dancing.
JACK: It didn’t look like talking.
ROSE: It didn’t feel like dancing.

JACK: There it is. Hey, they’ve got Algy on duty. It must be important.
DOCTOR: We’ve got to get past him.
ROSE: Are the words distract the guard heading in my general direction?
JACK: I don’t think that’d be such a good idea.
ROSE: Don’t worry, I can handle it.
JACK: I’ve got to know Algy quite well since I’ve been in town. Trust me, you’re not his type. I’ll distract him. Don’t wait up.
DOCTOR: Relax, he’s a 51st century guy. He’s just a bit more flexible when it comes to dancing.
ROSE: How flexible?
DOCTOR: Well, by his time, you lot have spread out across half the galaxy.
ROSE: Meaning?
DOCTOR: So many species, so little time.
ROSE: What, that’s what we do when we get out there? That’s our mission? We seek new life, and… and
DOCTOR: Dance.

DOCTOR: Welcome to the Tardis.
JACK: Much bigger on the inside.
DOCTOR: You’d better be.
ROSE: I think what the Doctor’s trying to say is you may cut in.
DOCTOR: Rose! I’ve just remembered!
ROSE: What?
(The music changes from waltz to swing – Glenn Miller’s In The Mood.)
DOCTOR: I can dance! I can dance!
ROSE: Actually, Doctor, I thought Jack might like this dance.
DOCTOR: I’m sure he would, Rose. I’m absolutely certain. But who with?

JACK: Who the hell are you?
MICKEY: What do you mean, who the hell am I? Who the hell are you?

JACK: Don’t tell me. This must be Mickey.
DOCTOR: Here comes trouble! How’re you doing, Ricky boy?
MICKEY: It’s Mickey!
ROSE: Don’t listen to him, he’s winding you up.
MICKEY: You look fantastic.
(Rose and Mickey hug. The Doctor is up a ladder mending something.)
JACK: Aw, sweet, look at these two. How come I never get any of that?
DOCTOR: Buy me a drink first.
JACK: You’re such hard work.

MICKEY: Sounds like you’re staying, then. So, what’re you doing in Cardiff? And who the hell’s Jumping Jack Flash? I mean, I don’t mind you hanging out with big-ears up there…
DOCTOR: Oi!
MICKEY: Look in the mirror. But this guy, I don’t know, he’s kind of…
JACK: Handsome?
MICKEY: More like cheesy.
JACK: Early 21st century slang. Is cheesy good or bad?
MICKEY: It’s bad.
JACK: But bad means good, isn’t that right?
DOCTOR: Are you saying I’m not handsome?

Also… The Girl Who Died… Clara offers to fight 12 for Ashildr.

Inclusivity? Sec, Rusty, Strax, Handles, Bill… hmm. Now try that with a Weeping Angel.

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@whohar

9? Have you READ the Empty Child/Doctor Dances script? Jack: “Much bigger on the inside!” 9: “You’d better be.” Battle of the bears. And Micky quickly sussed out what was occurring.

10? The Doctor admitted in End of Time he didn’t just leave Liz 1 at the altar.

11 & River? Two times on one of her birthdays (but no Stevie Wonder) + all that too much pleading and quoting Sexy Fish Vampires in Good Man goes to War.

12 & River? (though no-one needs to see the final shot from Husbands again)

13. She didn’t like Byron but who can blame her? Should have called a cop.

14… exactly how does he spend his time in Chiswick?

15 has Rogue. How is Rogue going to feel when Billie rocks up. What will Anita think of Billie?

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@dentarthurdent

‘kid show pleading’ is a fraud really. These people know kids like a thrill. They really just don’t get sci-fi and would rather it was a soap. You could say this goes back to Sidney Newman.

Pre gap romance? Briefly hinted 5/Nyssa flirting during Mawdryn Undead, but she was about to leave. And of course 4/Romana 2! Dear viewer, I married him!

I think Who Historicals could be more adventurous in structure. The fixed point canard is clearly quite wibbley wobbly. Also, like many non historical stories, you really don’t need a monster… it was the monsters that mar good stories like Inferno or Androzani.

Nice trainspotting though, literally! My personal problem is brainless dabbling in popular science: Adric curating the Chicxulub is one thing; The Earth’s unusual satellite being a space bat egg, or magic forests cancelling out Carrington Events is something else.

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@translatorcircuit

The gap is the gap is the gap. But the reboot really started with Cartmel. Only Grade still said ‘no thanks.’

Pre Cartmel Who ain’t some holy relic: they all made it up on the hoof, and after fifteen years it began to show. Given good writers it sparked along nicely. But good writers like strong meat: Holmes, Davis, Moff and Matthieson all got it in the neck from the ‘kid show pleaders.’ It’s an intractable problem for the corporation: the show is guaranteed to offend someone, probably right wing. But not if you’re a cheeky chap like like Moff.

On the one hand Who is unflushable. On the other you only have to avoid multiple companions, big chunks of exposition and VR. And yet the show-runners still go puppy charging all three of those patio doors.

@ dentarthurdent

Joy to the World was good, if baffling.

Love and Monsters? If it’s perverse it must be Russ.

Another great RTD story, effectively from the same era, is of course Dot and Bubble

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@whohar @janetteb

I’m 4 eps in series on 1. The ratings are stellar, especially for the ‘repetitive’ series 2. I really do prefer Severance though… so far.

Apparently they were working on a film treatment for Wool but then streaming came along. There are obvious and maybe superficial echoes of Doctor Strangelove, THX 1138, Boy and His Dog, Logans Run, 10 Cloverfield Lane… maybe the people like the retelling of something from the collective unconscious.

Got to say, Moff may have got there first with World Enough and Time.

As ep 1 came to a close… and I did at least get to the end of the first ep and beyond, unlike Foundation… I was struck by an odd thought. If you DID want to make, if not exactly a full on ‘QAnon’ sci-fi dystopia, then one rocking a few alt-right tropes, this could be it.

Birth control, climate change conspiracy, (possibly) fake news, post industrial rust belt decay in the basement, with urban monoculture swamp at the top. And a good ol plucky underdog home town sheriff from Down Thar, if only to argue the virtues of Tofu-munching with her resentful top-side factotum.

So, if someone does find an issue with the pizza in the cafeteria at the top, I may have to give up.

Or is it just the zeitgeist?

Hmmm. Joint Apple/AMC production. Not saying Dolan isn’t more suspect than any of the other tech billionaire MAGA converts. Oh. Yeah, maybe I am.

But series 1 looks great. Fantastic cast. Just got a feeling I could get annoyed.

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Anyone seen Silo?

I’m in two minds…

Anyone?

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@dentarthurdent @winston

Historicals… we’ve had this discussion before. I can’t  think of many reasons why Historicals can’t be fone, or done better.

Unless:

1. They’re considered dull.

2. The writers aren’t up to it.

3. The script edding ain’t up to it.

Not saying it hasn’t ever gone wrong, but really what’s so scary, unless it’s boredom, writing and edding?

It’s an open goal. Missed. Serially.

Question… are The Corp running scared??

The Gammon is out there. They can be touchy.

The Village Green Preservation Society.

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@dentarthurdent @whohar @nerys @translatorcircuit @janetteb

Midnight… you can call it a bottle episode or whatever. It was well done. Love a bit of paranoia. The only problem might be the stewardess’ sacrifice.  Hope the blue ray’s work @dentarthurdent !

RTD best ep? Turn Left and Love and Monsters (ha ha), the Dalek/Cyberman face-off in Doomsday, if only that. Quite liked the Utopia season ender too, just NOT Doctor/Dobby/Messiah.

Maybe good news re the streamers but they will want a pound of flesh. Similarities to the end of The Cartmel era… there’s no Michael Grade with a dagger. The BBC seem to be conflicted re Who: it’s unflushable, if you know what I mean. But BBC funding issues are a game changer. I ask again could T’floox have been both the streaming challenge meta’d AND a trial run of a Who final wrap: literally the end of The Whoniverse??

The virtues of Classic?? Some is truly virtuous and ground breaking. Some is very bad. The production values were other.

Cyberman… Keys of Marinus has been retconned as a Cyberman story, and it sounds intriguingly other, but it’s just so slooow…

The Holmes/Hinchcliffe era was scarred by Robot, Revenge of The Cybermen, Planet of Evil, Hand of Fear, and Invisible Enemy, none of them disasterous but thrown into sharp relief by the glory of the rest of those 3 seasons (although there was a bit of repetition). There again, even JNT, pre Cartmel, could curate the Mara stories, Androzani and Varos.

Is it better to endure the boring, badly written and worse produced (and who thought that those days would return – looking at you Chib) or take a short break? Not a 16 year break. That was Grade done that.

The loss of the xmas episode is tough though.

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@nerys @whohar @translatorcircuit @dentarthurdent

I wouldn’t say Midnight was over-rated, more that the whole of series 4, including the obligatory classic monster 2 parter, was pretty stellar. Gripping, unusual, great acting, top in any other season. Harsh to say there’s too much fuss made about it.

Interesting that Moffat announced he was moving toward more stand alone eps for the second half of series 7. Superficially similar to some aspects of Chib’s approach for series 11+12, which sounds like your preference, @translatorcircuit, before t’floox wiped out all rationality.

I wonder if ‘stand alone’ was a Corporation instruction to avoid hifalutin arcs, continuity and Cartmel?

Midnight seemed like a standalone until The Well, which I suspect makes the Midnight Monster a classic critter… mirrors, mind games, dreams, snakes…

 

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@translatorcircuit

so. It’s the blessed algorithms. Bring on the Butlerian Jihad.

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@translatorcircuit

A Who/Strictly crossover is/was a joke. With a nod toward the musical outings in Ruby Road and Devil’s Chord. That died a death, didn’t it? A bit weird.

Strictly’s ratings are massive. ‘Creatively’ it peaked 10 years ago. I have fond memories of it as a family show: watching it with my kid on a Saturday night. It’s getting tired now.

Not sure what The Corp will do; they have big funding issues, caused both by streaming competition and alt right venom. There are malign players working the situation who would LOVE to come away with the scalp of Who.

I am a big fan of non Space Opera sci fi. And Who too, which SHOULD be squidgy sci fi beyond Opera. I’m afraid some people will never get it.

Not heard of any of these European shows. I’m told to watch Foundation (Apple tv) but I revere early Azimov and it really looked like it had be been knocked together by some sad D&Ders with a huge CGI budget. I’m fussy.

Severence may resonate more with those who surfed the labour market before New Corporate W@nk and zero hours contracts. Best thing I’ve seen in years. Come to think, I’m really taken by the idea of a slow burn claustrophobic Who reboot, but it won’t happen. It’s difficult to reboot Who.

I’m afraid we see different virtues in Who. Personally I like dialogue and ideas. But you really do need brutally severe script edding too; the show has so much history, you can no longer make up big plot departures. Interestingly, none of these elements were Chib’s A game. What was his A game? I’ll leave that argument there.

On the other hand there is a widespread allergy to continuity ‘porn’, and this is understandable. Unless you’re a fan, you won’t want to watch what they will obviously think is a decrepit home movie of The Tenth Planet or an incomprehensible edit of The War Games.

I’m not sure where the show goes from here. RTD’s instinct to make things ‘difficult’ is probably correct. Bland Who would be a waste of time. I haven’t seen the Big Finish oevre but it must be a bit ersatz isn’t it?

The time may NOT be now.

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@translatorcircuit @blenkinsopthebrave

stand by for a Strictly/Who crossover with Craig Revel Horwood as show runner.

The problem with The BBC is it is a public service broadcaster. The fans may think they ‘own’ the show but so does every license fee payer, and there’s always been a vocal set of critics who will be delighted by the thought that it might cease.

The other aspect is the independent streamers. Cos I haven’t been impressed by their treatment of SF. Am I extraordinarily fussy or has Marvel trashed writing and production values?

I doubt if anyone out there will touch the Who formula as it stands. But that’s not Russ’ fault. You might say it’s Chib’s fault but actually that means it’s The Corporation’s fault because they turfed out Moffat and the heavyweight writers of his era.

Actually, you would think if Apple can make Severance, they could make Moffat era Who. They could probably make RTD2 Who if not for the damage done. Or would they shy away because Who is not really rebootable? Was The Timeless Children actually an attempted reboot, or prescribed Cartmel move, or preparation for winding up the show? Was t’flux the new streamers meta’d? Not very much like prosaic/dull as ditchwater Chib then. Gonna have to watch it one day. Maybe when I’m laid up after a bad traffic accident.

But there are 3 things a Who ‘maker’ shouldn’t do:

present the show as a soap opera

dabble in sententious exposition/voice overs

base the entire story on VR… it quickly becomes incomprehensible. Is this then a case of technical advance (AI) rendering Who redundant?

btw… Tenth Planet: Ben definitely says ‘twenty years’ on seeing the western. And it’s a big guy in a big hat.

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@mraem

Well, The Tenth Planet is set in 1986 and Ben says ‘I saw that 20 years ago.’ Of course Ben is from 1966. Does he mean he saw the film in 1966, or remembers seeing the film in the 40’s, presumably when he was quite young?
Because my impression is the clip was quite old. My other thought was about the guy in the very tall pale hat… it is quite a lid. The hat alone rules out High Noon but, anyway, I think it’s Wayne rather than Cooper. Compare with stills of ‘The Star Packer’ from 1934. Mighty big hat.

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So, why has RTD2 been so different, if indeed that is the case?

I think Marvel had been held up as a challenge since Husbands of River Song. Attract new viewers! It’s not necessarily a good fit but, like Grade making unfavourable comparisons with Star Wars in the 80’s (how about giving us the budget and 5 years’ development chap) it does raise the bar. And lower it.

Thesis 1: Steven Moffat could not successfully script a Star Wars movie. Praise The Force!

So big budgets may be a bit of a waste for a show noted for wit and ideas. Obviously we’re not talking about the various attempts to turn it into a soap opera.

Thesis 2: there are people who don’t like wit and ideas; they call it Woke.

RTD must have found cosying up to Disney problematic. The desire to make it cartoony is understandable but then there were plenty of episodes… Wild Blue Yonder, Boom, 73 Yards, The Well… which were not. Dot and Bubble, and Story and Engine were another kind of cartoon entirely. However, even factoring in RTD’s penchant for nutty season finales, this was uneven.

Thesis 3: it was written in a rush.

Specifically, at some point in 2021 say, The BBC contact Russ and say ‘we need help. That show you really like is heading for the bin. This is our wish list. What can you do?’

Not sure how that negotiation played out but, at a guess, Gatiss, Whithouse and Matthieson were all considered too adult.

Nonetheless, having had 5-10 years to cook up the first arc with or without a Cartmel 2.0, Russ thinks ‘yeah I can do this (again)’ but actually he hasn’t that many ideas banked. Blimey where do you start?

So, brainstorming, he looks at the calendar. Once he knows the proposed broadcast slots he thinks: ‘May 11th… that’s the anniversary of 2 major Cybermen stories. Now didn’t Chib somehow manage to ask an interesting question of Cybermen: that is, do they really want to be androids? Yes, the organic element is their Achilles heel, but what would they need if they were to avoid being dumb robots? Better not lead with that or you give it all away.

What else have we for May 11th? Spiders… which really doesn’t work. But Planet of the Spiders replaced the abandoned Final Game, which revealed The Doctor’s history. Very Cartmel. Frankly, that really does need some fixing. I’m thinking Susan Foreman.’

‘The 2nd series could also be based around May 24th because they made me skip 2 eps for Eurovision back in the day. Yes, nice and camp: I’ll shoehorn that in. And, historically, that date also gives me The War Games. So, we need to reintroduce people to that gem. 10 eps? Oooh! Maybe get it trimmed and colourised.

Also Silence and The Library from 31st May, because that was the broadcast date of one of the delayed shows. Donna (and eventually River) are trapped in VR! Oh tres topical! Got to make that happen! And of course excellent for Cybermen, Gromit.’

‘Now, who else messes about with VR? The Valeyard. Right. What is the negative aspect of The Doctor? Good vs Evil. He HAS committed genocide. Davros won’t shut up about it.’

‘And who likes dubious armies of mooks? The Great Intelligence! Where is TGI? In The Doctors timeline… Now, do I have the number for Grant’s agent?’

‘So. Negative Aspect of The Doctor… best exemplars…<span class=”Apple-converted-space”> </span>Remembrance = genocide, Coal Hill + maybe chuck Omega in to keep the trainspotters happy.’

‘That aired on Oct 5th. There’s 2 others from that date. Firstly, The Mindrobber = VR!!’

‘And 3 is the charm! Paradise Towers… people go to war at the behest of a Corporation/Organisation, just like The War Games; also Great Architect (=Intelligence), and it has a useless masculine character (VR, AI, mock the Alt Gammon) Yeah, that works great!’

‘Now, we’re unlikely to broadcast on Oct 5th… no problem: as Dylan Thomas said to AJP Taylor: “don’t make it too easy for the readers.” But best drop an Oct 5th ref in some random ep.’

Boom as it happens.

‘Problem… VR stories have a bad track record and can be a tad confusing. How far can you suspend disbelief?

Well, at least there’s no Fam. Oh you want to expand Unit for a spin off and bring some old faces back? Errr… sure, the viewers won’t notice. Too much.’

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@miapatrick
As opposed to the idea that a hypothetical ‘Rosedoc’ mimics a personification of The Tardis, like Idris or The Moment Interface, could it actually be the other way round? Who has actually looked onto the Heart of The Tardis?

Moviemaster

Slitheen Woman

And Rose… I think we know which one was preferred by the Blue Box. So was Rose kept as a template, influencing the possessed character of Idris and rippling into the conscience of The Moment?

If we assume The Doctor’s relationship with The Tardis is almost symbiotic (when the Doctor has a problem The Cloister Bell tolls) then he/she might be as amenable to a ‘Rose Shape’ as Lady Cassandra was.

Rogue… I think a lot of what we’ve seen in these two series are echoes of The Doctor’s history: an attempt to ground and build the VR around him. But there is feedback. Rogue isn’t safe in a nice VR… it’s hell. In rescuing Rogue will The Doctor actually regain River? If the VR is very very good. The virtual opposite of ‘what happens if you die in Real Life?’

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@dentarthurdent

I did mention Russ… perhaps I should have said RTD2.

The main point being, those two season closers were not just messed up by the arc – the key element presumably being VR – but by slow development: UNIT; non vital personnel old and new; they have a TIME WINDOW, which requires an exorbitant amount of explanation to no effect; yet no one can explain what The Vlinx is.

I was saying that all is not lost, whether or not Billie is or not The Doctor. There were bad eps in the past. There were some great eps in both the new series.

And sadly I never saw Legend of The Sea Devils… some relation to the spin-off do you think?

 

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@whisht

Thank you!

You know, I have managed it in the past. You get an update you can’t call t’internet yer own!

Anyway, how was that ever only a b side?

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@dentarthurdent @thane16 @winston @blenkinsopthebrave @whohar

it’s easier to find duff eps pre twice upon a time than good ones after (up until RTD2 anyway)

9 eps per season does seem a bit mean, with not a lot of scope for additional writers. I would say the only real clunkers were Russ’ Legend and Empire. But did they clunker. I keep looking for reasons in the arc… whatever it is. Will the key may be UNIT? Perhaps more information may emerge in the spin-off.

Secondary companions. Those three worked. Mickey was comedy, and we did laugh at him and Jack; now persona non grata. Danny and Rory were more critical, in different ways. Danny’s departure is interesting; he was on the verge of dumping Clara, next seen in various Virtual Realities. Which seems topical. I mean, I’m sure Gallifreyan tech is fantastic, but bringing a dead Afghan kid back? Presumably to London? And no awkward questions???

Arthur Darvill was great. Big Nose for Doctor 17. Doctor who refuses to put his companions at risk…? ‘Let’s NOT split up eh?’

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@whohar @blenkinsopthebrave @dentarthurdent
11th hour. Olivia Coleman does creepy

special mention for Amy’s choice. Toby Jones does creepy.
And Big Bang was totally off the wall yet elegant. Better season ender than Wedding or Time of the Doctor.
I wasn’t overly fond of the return of The Angels at first. Especially Angel Bob. Or the Silurian story: uncomfortable foreboding of The Fam from Chib.

The Lodger is another hidden gem. The later ‘oh seen this tech before’ misdirection from The Doctor in Day of the Moon, zooms in under the radar.

I think Smith was brilliant but some people are sniffy and/or confused by Moff.

Also like to mention the 2nd half of series 7. Even the 2 difficult eps look great.

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Re RTD2 in general… Buzzcocks: ‘What do you know?’ What, after all, do we know?

https://www.bing.com/search?q=youtube+what+do+you+know+buzzcocks&pc=EMMX04&FORM=EMMXA2&mkt=en-gb

…except not sure that worked… dumb overwrought lyrics and great brass anyway

 

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@blenkinsopthebrave @ dentarthurdent

So… no talkin shop dahn the pub. Ok I’ll remember that.

I mentioned Ace, not because I thought she’d be coming back, but because she (and Sarah Jane) are the favourite Classic companions. And, of the two, the writing for Ace was probably better. And she was the first ‘supered’ companion, apart from Romana. I think Leela was wonderful too but, when not in the hands of Holmes and Boucher, the writing for Leela veered to lazy or indifferent.

So why bother to ‘design’ Rose? Of course, as it happened, Russ didn’t. Probably a meta ambition. But Rose was always clearly ‘meant’ to be significant. And, if there is a plan, I assume it must contain a stipulation that in order NOT to wreck it (as a lot of people think Chib may have) you need to create a new mystery for every one you solve.

So, Rose disappears in a parallel universe, but she’s ‘owned’ by the Vortex too. For that reason, if we are looking at the origin of The Valeyard, I don’t think it’s Rose, but 10/14.

btw in UK CB radio parlance, 10-14 is ‘prowler report!’

Will come back shortly with my grand unified RTD2 analysis.

[ps1l0v3y0u @replies]

@dentarthurdent @blenkinsopthebrave

Sorry, posting under time pressure. Of course, I meant ‘Twice Upon a Time,’ NOT ‘World Enough…’

I haven’t studied Chib’s Dalek stories. I really will have to check out the post TTC arc and specials. Albeit reluctantly. But Moff drilled right down into Dalekdom, whereas Chib just wheeled them around, didn’t he?

But anyway I checked the Reality War credits and, long before The Martins, Letts, and Nation…

‘Ncuti Gatwa as The Doctor’

‘Jodie Whittaker as The Doctor’

’and introducing Billie Piper…’

so… PROBABLY The Doctor. But might (eventually) be Ruth, The Watcher or The Valeyard. Or any of the mugshots from Morbius.

Yes, Capdoc copped a Roman face to remind him to save Ashildr, who I have speculated elsewhere was quite crucial to The Doctor’s history, so actually he really had no choice. But significant.

6, back in the days when JNT thought if you squeezed your eyes very tight, no one would notice, had previously strutted Maxil, a shouty Gallifreyan functionary. No plan. Random.

If The Doctor has Rose’s face, why?

1. Looked into The Heart of The Tardis

2. Personified The Moment’s Interface. Of course the script of Day of The Doctor would seem to indicate that 2 follows from 1 (Badwolf)

3. Russ’ last desperate throw of the dice.

4. Always part of Cartmel 2.0… there was an early draft of Nuwho in which Rose was the product of The Doctor’s attempt to design the perfect companion.

Which is weird because you would think that was Ace, wouldn’t you?

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