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@winston oh, I love that!! We had a wall phone which I forever chatted on ensuring no one could call my parents at night! Ours was mango yellow. 😀

I remember a good friend across the street pulling out some Dylan & Cold Chisel (Cheap Wine, Forever Now), the latter which I’d never heard before (my parents were notorious haters of rock) & playing them in their attic late at night. We had to stick our heads close to the speaker to not wake the parents.

@ps1l0v3y0u @dentarthurdent generally, a solo section is called an instrumental verse when it matches harmony or form but a more general term, if it matches the length or style of the music, is instrumental break. I liked On The Turning Away but it’s been years since I gave it a listen? I’ll have to pull out that CD. I’m sure it’s buried in the foundations of our son’s room! 👿

Thank you for bringing up these lovely memories. Music is so intense that way. I’ve heard it’s called a Reminiscence Bump but I don’t know that term?

Puro.

 

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@dentarthurdent no, you’re right: Floyd had harmonic, & romantic or enlightenment tonal harmony baked in, though tempo wasn’t part of any classical conventional certainty, at least not after the 14th century & the shift from sacred to secular composition allowing for specific tempo markings not interfering with sacred musical or liturgical practice.

If you also meant rhythm, there was certainly a greater diversity here, post 14th century. Additionally, musical consonances starts to occur more on the strong beats.

One can witness all of that in PF. @ps1l0v3y0u I also have issues with some of PF tracks. That massive change in the 60s with Roger, an intelligent guy, who is determined to express his super personal ideas. Obviously with power moving from producers to consumers, the ‘seeing what’s popular’ & then packaging it meant that the consumer interest was spacey & so spaciness became PF’s ever present ‘thing.’

There was a time when music wasn’t known by any 1 thought or thing. Stravinsky knew expression isn’t just 1 property of music & that there’s not always a correlation between a composer’s feelings & their notation. For him rhythm, tone & construction were constructive.

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@dentarthurdent I hadn’t ever known about Gilmore and Adams.

I was 18-19 listening to Dark Side of the Moon & typically did a “I don’t like it.” As a classicist, I was a snob & ignorant of “modern music” for at least another year.

Though I did see a few rock concerts, as young as 11-13 because the babysitter had tickets so threw a dressing gown over my PJs & a blanket over my head. That was a scary rite of passage!

Puro.

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@nerys @winston I can recall Donna’s appeal which hit me more in the episodes with Doctor 14. I saw a Short on YouTube in which she bemoans giving away her money with her husband, Rose & the Doctor highlighting her compassion & empathy.

I also remember how she heard & felt, temporarily, the Ood’s song of captivity which the Doctor heard at all times. Murray Gold is incredible with this. The first time I listened to the Doctor’s theme with rich double basses, woodwinds & the haunting vocalise, I thought it fit 9 & 10s incarnations perfectly in 2005/06.

@dentarthurdent @ps1l0v3y0u Morricone was the first (or perhaps second after Oldfield) film composer that I as a child or teen was drawn to. I thought Leone’s adherence to film as spectacle was realised perfectly. Watching in cinema was quite the memorable experience. I too loved Being Human & rewatched A Town called Mercy this year.

@nerys thank you for the book recommendation! I think your phrase of how “woke” is now a form of oppression is a truism; but has it also become its own linguistic equivalent of negativity, an icon of (seemingly) right wing dogmatism & an easy hit against perceived conformity? I know little about this though & enjoy the discussion

Puro.

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@dentarthurdent Once upon a Time in the West is a stunning work.

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@whohar @ps1l0v3y0u @winston @dentarthurdent @nerys and all

I think a comic-con panel had Billie Piper. A fan asked the question …..the only question that can ever be asked! “Are you the doctor?” And Piper said “I’m not the Doctor I’m Rose Tyler on hiatus.”

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@nerys oops! Yes, you did. My bad.😞

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@nerys yes the Lux clue or name is interesting because when I think of RTD he uses a number of unusual perceived futuristic names.

I’m thinking of Martha, & the Doctor meeting Jack at the end of the world where the refugees, essentially at the end of time, are about to travel to Utopia with professor Yana & the names of the various lads & lasses they encounter in the holding area? I found Lux didn’t fit the aural pattern RTD would normally** use so I expected Lux to come back- somehow?
@whohar beg pardon!  you and a number of others posited Billie P as a version of Idris. I actually love that option. Perhaps because it leans into that fabulous episode written by Neil Gaiman and Moffat.
@nerys did you enjoy Reality War or was it a bit of a slog?

Puro.

** names like Creet/Cree; Chantho Tho….

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@winston @nerys Oh yes! I also feel that way in the garden. I noticed that a gent who helps me weed, mow & mulch, often places more mulch on top of other mulch rather than turning the ground? I remember @mudlark teaching me many wonderful things about soil & its turning (among other stuff like archaeology, medieval churches & ancient history).

I too love Silence in the Library-it’s one of my favourite two parters.

I was also thinking about @miapatrick & her earlier idea of Billie Piper as the Tardis rather than as a Doctor, or companion across the universes; or The Moment?

Puro.

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@winston @nerys that’s brilliant. We’ll be very thrilled to watch it again beside you. Subscriptions are insanely expensive. A friend of mine, at the last weekend, said she’s planned out what subs to have within a 6 month period, & which to drop & like us, holds videos at the Brisbane City Council library just up the road. Considering Dr Who on Disney was 6 (or 8?) episodes it’s hard to justify.

I’m with you on the exposition in The Reality War. And Jodie’s Doctor was wonderful in that return. I frequently rewatch that segment on YouTube as it’s so enjoyable.

@dentarthurdent yes, Whitaker’s Tardis was “off” so her opinion on Gatwa’s is …..but I think it was more a nod to Moffat’s lines: “I don’t like it.”

the score was nuts, agreed. I’ve a feeling RTD notes to Gold were “ram it up.” I might dislike a lot of Chibbers stories but I enjoyed Akinola’s music. It was sufficiently alien & organic to the scenes.

Puro

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@ps1l0v3y0u

73 Yards is about time and patience. Ruby is ‘sent away’ in time by the magic fairy circle (see Wild B Yonder & the salt line) to ensure Mad Jack doesn’t trigger a nuclear apocalypse. Ultimately, when Ruby’s job is done, the elder Ruby (originally the mysterious woman) tells the now not so young Ruby, to avoid the fairy circle thus changing the timeline.

I agree with everyone about the “trouser” issue, the wheelchair decision (though space babies had….. 🤣) etc.
@whohar yes! The sonic is not a gun but then “the Doc shoots Omega in the face with a weapon” I couldn’t have said it better myself.

I was thinking of earlier Who (Doc 11) with Bill Paterson as Bracewell and then I started a re-watch of Foyle’s War. David Tennant, Christina Cole, Capaldi and Ron Cook. A terrific piece with near perfect messaging.

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I LOVED The Moment. Piper’s fabulous strut and her mimicking of Hurt’s words was an “oh she’s going there!” moment. I had second hand embarrassment for the Doctor except the Moment was worldly, kind & understanding. And of course she would be.

I sometimes forget just how brilliant Rose/Piper was. Every bit as good as Eccleston & Tennant. Better perhaps than Donna (I find she rubs me up the wrong way, sometimes -it’s the shouty!)  🙂

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Ah yes, thank you -Bill Potts’ first episode. Got it.

I think Moff handles messaging better than most & with his determination to entertain above all else it generally doesn’t clunk along tediously. And one newer episode I liked very much was Wild Blue Yonder.

From pacing, to humour, to chilling terror, it worked very well… though I believed they’d entered the land of Mavity Schmavity in an entirely separate universe which, unless I’m forgetting something, would then establish this bizarre new world for Gatwa. Perhaps that happened -I just never noticed 😉

Yes, placing companions into Unit works if it’s perhaps one companion because upon the Dr’s arrival, it’s all hugs & shaky hands ….& then they blend into the background….

It’s lovely in theory but it didn’t work very well beyond the composite, unless they appeared outside of Unit with a determined aspect such as in School Reunion (a superb episode).

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Oops -Davros not Dacron!

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<p style=”text-align: left;”>@ps1l0v3y0u. @whohar @dentarthurdent @janetteb @winston @nerys</p>
Yes, @whohar there were aggressive pronouncements by RTD 2- the most concerning was Dacron’ ableist issue; the sonic better as a telly remote than a gun & TenDoc regenerating back into his 2006+ clothing as keeping 13’s outfit would be an insult to drag performers….

This was all very odd to me but as has been said above, a number of his eps were terrific from 73 Yards, Boom to Rogue ….And yes “hey Russell, that’s probably not the best idea” might’ve helped. But apparently Eccleston did this & was.. er…degenerated for his trouble 😉

@ps1l0v3y0u indeed, many of RTD 1 episodes were message-laden which certainly parallels early Who. And “You can cut the right shapes but keep it woolly.” Ooh. I love that!

I never quite got how Martha & Mickey ended up together either? I feel RTD has to pair off people: so even unlikely pairings seem sensible 🤣 Perhaps this was just gimmicky for the Tennant’s Doctor “thank you & goodnight farewell last ride tour.”

Puro.

 

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@ps1l0v3y0u oh boy! I had to Google the C Warrior sketch….. indeed, a woman’s brain….!

And fair enough one could say it’s “people, dude, relax, it’ll work.” And that’s great but if that’s how Rose’s journey progressed following this episode, it’s a problem- a small one perhaps, but the development was thin as a nail.

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@whohar @ps1l0v3y0u @dentarthurdent @janetteb  Another thought that our son had in reference to RTD2 comeback were these specific issues of identity.

As the Doctor was male, he couldn’t let go of the Dr/Donna crisis, but Donna could pass the meta crisis energy to her non-binary daughter so this burden was split & Donna avoided inevitable lethality.

I felt that landed awkwardly & no, I’m not at all against non-binary presentations & I’m opposed to assumptions regarding pronouns & privacy, but I wondered how Donna survived.

Is it that her daughter solved the crisis because of her non-binary presenting identity?  As if her only contribution could be this unusual biological imperative or sexuality.

Further, as Rose then does very little in the next season, her involvement in the meta-crisis drops into obscurity & makes a mockery of her initial contribution (despite it being a true game changer) & if so, why use it at all?

@whohar in your list of issues with chib’s run, Point 3 fits in with this (tho it’s RTDs here)? Also in my post above, the thoughts came from the book The Knowledge Illusion by Sloman & Fernbach who touch on the unity of collective wisdom .

@dentarthurdent the point of the cups falling in RTD2’s Reality ep is a great idea with juicy potential.

Puro

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@whohar  quite. I was reading, a couple of years back, how the Knowledge illusion convinces us that the collective knowledge of our community exists equally within each of us when this is a furphy.

By using only our individual stories (of class, family,) we put ourselves against others with different perspectives or stories (even those with similar classist backgrounds) making assumptions that rarely lead to active solutions.

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@whohar yes, the Christian Right who are very often neither 😉

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To all….. this is a fascinating discussion. And yes, the nature of ethical topicality was observed & lauded by RTD & Chibbers post-2015 (I love your descriptions @ps1l0v3y0u ) & whilst they tied up my favourite season (s 5) a little too speedily, @PS & @dentarthurdent I didn’t see it as a reset myself? But most definitely is Mavity a clue to another side-by-side universe.

I recall the lecture CapDoc demonstrated in Bill Pott’s first or 2nd episode? Where the former speaks about how the universe creates time from a trillion tiny decisions. My brain has almost lost the memories of that episode & as no streamers in Aus have ‘new’ Dr Who at the moment, I can only rely on memory or pull apart boxes to retrieve all my Who box sets!

@whohar yes, the more we focus on identity politics, the less focus exists on working class & middle class oppression thru an overall mismanagement of economic opportunity & the foundational roots of exploitation & marginalisation.

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To me woke equals good manners and inclusivity. Thus it’s a good thing…. But it needs to be managed -I recall Pertwee being almost-“woke” sometimes & it worked. His expressions and his silence -the latter careful & convincing.

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@winston halloo!! @ps1l0v3y0u @whohar @dentarthurdent

yes, Moffat loved the humour & it’s what made it entertaining to me- thus rewatchable. I rewatched Listen and the Under the Lake 2-parter with 12’s “cards” that Clara organised.

RTD did humour too. Once. And even though message-heavy Dr Who existed in the 60s it was clever, sardonic, mature, even if somewhat unsubtle. Perhaps it was more sophisticated than Chib’s messaging.  I also found Unit’s U.S. -military junta behaviour tedious.

As for a reset button, everything pointed towards them being in some story-book mavity universe lorded over by unreal gods. Shame there was no development there ?

and yes, preachy writing was an issue. It makes me wonder, based on how RTD could get with live audience questions (incredibly rude) that perhaps he dislikes viewers more than before? It’s a f__ you response from him….

Puro.

 

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@ps1l0v3y0u. Lol! No, but mine really are….

in the social messaging of Chibbers I thought it was overtly political – except I understand that’s both essential (plays & stories were always this) & part of Who’s rich history but something about the execution of their messages was clunky or unsubtle….

 

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apologies for the weirdness of the post above! I wasn’t going to edit the post again for fear of loss.

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@dentarthurdent @ps1l0v3y0u absolutely, I always ask anyone on the forum those same questions- to the ether & beyond!
<p style=”text-align: left;”>I felt the same about Chibbers characters there. Certainly my street had a lot of young ladies thrilled with a female Doc & it was good to see many costumes recreated from the show over those next few years.

I actually enjoyed Hungry Earth tho the Doctor’s repeated “be better be better” was a tad robotic. 42 Hours (??) with Martha & Ten was a great episode too. So yes, something was off about the Chib era.

I did love Time of the Doctor though. It was chaotic, for sure, but entertaining. I always thought as you did with the Chibbers Tardis that the Fam were too diffuse (great concept). Yet, we had Amy, Rory, River, then the occasionally trio of Jenny, Strax & Vastra all with great stories behind them- so it can be done. ✅</p>

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@dentarthurdent Oooh I loved Cassandra! That whole configuration with Cassandra, the Doctor/Tennant playing her as well Piper’s brilliant mimicking worked a treat. The “bouncy castle” line is ace!

That’s one episode I rewatch because it’s funny, it takes one out of oneself but the ending, where the clone-grown humans are  released & well, brings tears.

I can handle praying mantis’  reasonably well but our large tuckeroo is occasionally infested with reddish black bugs called stink bugs & when they “ooze” out of various branches, I immediately shut windows & doors & call a tree surgeon who sprays them & then carries away any still living insects.

@whohar @ps1l0v3y0u I think about Chibbers  Who a lot, actually. What were 3-4 issues you had with this iteration or series. Was it an unsubtle political or socio-political issue? I recall early Who in the 60s was all about political & economic themes. Perhaps it was different in other ways.

 

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@dentarthurdent

yes, apologies: I saw, in my post, that I’d misspelled your name so added that in separately. Prior to this, though, I saw more mistakes so used the edit function which then happily decided to delete the entire thing! I know people will often compose a response in their Documents & then copy it into a post. I used to do this but forgot!

Puro.

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Oh boy! My post vanished!

I’ll do a recap. @whohar @dentarthurdent @ps1l0v3y0u

I enjoyed Listen, particularly how Clara & the Doc can play against each other & poke fun? In my 20s I couldn’t accept my figure or my face.

I wondered as to how RTD with his “that’s alright” from the Toymaker seemed a gentle dig at Moffat? Though RTD brought back rose and returned Donna’s memory back to her in full.

The Family of Blood continued with Martha’s theme of love for the Doctor. And I recall Moffat on one of his DVD audio commentaries saying  he doesn’t understand why, when the Doctor is so attractive, that the girls aren’t lining up to kiss him. 🙄

Yet it wasn’t just Moffat but RTD who wrote love interests into many of these episodes, including Nurse Redfern falling in love with John Smith. I’d personally love it if the doctor and the companions weren’t mutually attracted. Mind you, they did this with The Fam in the tardis. Was the tardis simply too small to capture the personal stories of those companions?

On another point, I was pondering the nature of the doctors enemies whether the Silence or the Weeping Angels (both work when one isn’t observing them- in fact, the enemy under the blanket is like this in Listen, too), both convincing with simple & pedestrian visual effects, particularly when you consider how speedily the Great Dog of death & the Withering Skeleton from the underworld were finished off.

Also, on that writing we can see in The Time of Angels etc how long it takes to formulate a plan to understand them so it feels well paced compared with some of RTD’s more recent episodes & the inevitable conquering of the main villains. Probably down to episode & season length? I actually liked how the longer 2 parter RTD-run episodes developed too: The Satan Pit was a terrific thriller. Those Oods!

Puro

 

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@oops that’s @dentarthurdent above.

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@dentarthurdent I think @ps1l0v3y0u meant that women could sometimes be written as “another bloke” as opposed to a well thought out female character. If I’m wrong please chip in.

There are so many rules or concepts associated with writing for any character that I don’t know how anybody does it without facing criticism. But I was impressed with Amy, Clara, Bill & Jaz.

(I can handle mice, but by heaven, if there’s a cockroach I yell for help . These days I’ve moved on a little by throwing a plastic container over the top to trap the thing temporarily).

@whohar thank you for this information. I’d not heard that it was inspired by Virginia Woolf’s essay. Sad to say I haven’t read A Room of One’s Own since high school.

On screwball, did you see Bringing Up Baby in ‘39 with Katharine Hepburn?

@classiccar welcome to the site!

Puro.

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@ps1l0v3y0u

do you think Hell Hent was contradicted by The Timeless Child? (I saw the former about 10x & the latter once or twice!).

You mentioned incoherence so one of my issues was Chibbers panicked breathing thru it all? In the Tennant ep where Martha’s kidnapped, the quiet direction had the Doc sitting opposite Martha listening to his grief over Gallifrey, as he explained Gallifrey & Kasterborous & the night sky. A beautifully framed scene.

Chibbers always had massive edits, constantly moving cameras clocking onto Whittaker without letting the atmosphere breathe even for a few seconds. It made me a little nauseous! 🤮

Either way one can’t deny Chibbers’ love of the show & his characters (however many companions there were). But he wasn’t subtle!

Puro.

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@ps1l0v3y0u @whohar @janetteb

Until about 8 years ago I was ignorant of the Bechdel Test myself. I actually thought Moff’s female characters were well rounded (not just …ahem….well rounded…) progressing from confused & helpless to “being the Doctor.”

Over the years one notices how companions evolve. In the 2000s the Doctor saved his beloved companions, as they in turn shouted, “where are you? Help us! The Doctor WILL come, he’ll deliver us…”

They then became a stronger moral compass & with Clara you had her IN the Doctor (Flatline), or in the Dalek 😉 but by Chibbers we had WhitDoc’s Fam, & in particular, Yaz taking off alone to solve a difficult puzzle.

But with RTD again we backtracked: though Ruby was independent, she was painted as a kind & gentle, sweet (get my drift?) lady who seemed a realistically depicted person —in RTD’s mind (all smiley, generous or oversimplified) without the necessary moral conundrum & anti-passivity that a Doctor-companion relationship needed to sustain an arc.

Mind you there’s a lot of talk about the companion’s cosmic mystery with both showrunners but under Moff they were volatile, fierce debaters, & occasionally ethically challenged….. The Doctor & companion grew, thanks to each other. And again, this can be put down to Gatwa, concerned as to the length of his tenure, or maybe Disney’s luke-warm attitude to extending the series beyond 8 episodes.

I should add I wasn’t worried about Ruby’s anti-cosmic energy (even though her supernatural qualities were overtly demonstrated through each episode) as I liked her being “ordinary” -as indeed we all are. Looking back I did feel a tad cheated considering the music alone hinted at some innate power.

Puro.

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@dentarthurdent

Cor, yes! MI5’s ziggurat: a perfect description of it. I wonder who employed the architect to build THAT?  Oh yes! El Trumpo presenting the prize. What a delicious moment.

Yes, the fan service was evident, wasn’t it? I think even Mrs Flood’s status was confused with her monologue to Ms Cherry in Season 1 (almost like AD or CE organisation) speaking of  “there’s a storm coming. Beware!” I thought some of this didn’t quite match up in Season 2?

also there’s a small scene in the rather appalling Eurovision episode (sorry if people loved it!) where Doctor has a secret message from Susan but it’s never explored? Waaaa!!

And I loved Wild Blue Yonder too. Great chemistry & the FX worked which was also down to the calm direction & photography with a Doctor we know can do massive damage if necessary & with a full & complete backstory in an actor so very experienced in authenticity. It’s also filled with humour & explosive moments.

@ps1l0v3y0u @whohar

oh, don’t worry, @PS, I do the same! But I had no idea about the dismantling of Moffat’s legacy considering his work remains well loved & his themes & Doctors, scary but subtle. He understood just how the system is the controlling weapon (much like how Odysseus is at the mercy of impersonal gods), how characters work inside those constraints where institutions are the true antagonists.

Chibnall tried to show how economic & political structures govern us all but many episodes were so consumed with what was wrong in society that they singularly missed gravitational pull & momentum in favour of narrative convenience.

i absolutely agree @whohar that the pressure on RTD was great. I can’t imagine him enjoying having to write Gatwa in less episodes over a shortened series where social media is onto everything before you finish a syllable. He had different pressures back in 03/04.

Puro.

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@translatorcircuit   So we never missed much with The Land & Sea, then? 😉

and as others said, you definitely should write some Who. And I agree about the FX. I remember mum saying on this very Forum how she loved the show when she was 8 for its cardboard monsters, its B&W film & the endless dirty corridors relying on tension, & feelings of “this isn’t right” which made it all the more suspenseful.

The actors had such gravitas & were almost always serious (except for Tom Baker who smiled but not all the time) & cautious people who drew us in with a look or gesture.

None of the family enjoyed the big FX this time with UNIT’s enormous & expensive building & worse, hyping up characters like Donna’s daughter & 4 others, including an ‘80s companion, with almost all of them doing very little.

That could be due to a season of 8 episodes instead of the 12-14 we usually had. And only occasionally was there a Doctor-lite episode. The result is everything feeling rushed. I would’ve liked to have the villain’s arc more complex instead of the Doctor shooting one of them or somehow undoing their existence by …..magically using a spoon as a wand to undo death.

Others had the impression the season of Gods meant the Doctor was in a fantasy underworld from which he & the companion would soon awake. But now we’ll never know. 🙁

Puro’s son.

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@ps1l0v3y0u

yes I think they did undermine Moffat a little. And McGann was wonderful in the minisode.

Do you think the BBC didn’t much like Moffat or were tired of his stories or expectations?

I actually enjoyed Foundation- not so much season 1 or 3 but definitely season 2 and quite a bit of season 3. The books are so dense with characters talking & deciding things with little action so showrunners needed to include action & momentum and create a role for 3 famous (?) actors as the genetic dynasty to modernise it & also to make Hari Seldon more real.

neither of us have read much Asimov. I think mum taught some of his work at school & to be honest there was some criticism of his writing style.

Son of Puro….

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Hey to all!! @whohar @ps…. @translatorcircuit @janetteb @nerys @winston @dentarthurdent @blenkinsopthebrave

oh boy, yes, the latest info on all things Who made me feel a tad off? I found out that the so called Special wasn’t really much of a special at all: whilst in a hotel room, doom scrolling on YouTube on a site run by a young British lady who styles herself  “Who Culture,” I believe.

And I don’t understand how RTD could speak so fluently (or should I say in his usual slightly rambling, breathy way) about a Christmas Special that hadn’t been made at all? Perhaps it was written, or some scenes had been filmed?  But I get the sense it didn’t get that far, which makes me wonder why on earth you’d have Billie Piper pop back for 5 seconds.

It seems, then, that regeneration doesn’t have as much significance any more though you could interpret her appearance as glitchy matrix or Bad Wolf.

I also wonder how Aus/NZ will locate The War Between the Land & Sea… I read some good things about it & also some less than stellar including a meme where …..>

SPOILER SPOILER……Russel Tovey’s character does a Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind vanishing act, leaving his family to go “naughty naughty” with a fish! End spoiler.

I’ll read some more of your lovely posts. Hoping you’re all well & keeping up the fight for some more Who -even that from Chibbers! Puro and son xx

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I have also been reminded by a friend to watch the ospreys at the Dyfi Centre. Fabulous to reflect on

Much love to all, Puro and Son</p>

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Just reporting in, everybody!
@winston -2 months late to wish your family all the best with the wonderful new addition!
Much love to you.

@blenkinsopthebrave good to see you about these pages, also.

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@dentarthurdent I too saw a bit of Farscape. Forum members here suggested it, actually.

I’m sympathetic about the grouting & other volunteer assistance for your family because I totally get that. You did well. It sounded excruciatingly difficult though. And they left you to finish it all!

My brother was never one for renovations or tiling until they bought a true dump of a home in Sydney &, unable to afford contractors, my brother  borrowed library books over 22 years (all the while working & looking after children) & turned their home into something magical.

Me? I can’t even locate my backside…. In fact, last night,  at the screening of “Wuthering Heights” my hubby & I (I blame him of course) couldn’t remember where we parked the car. It took 45 mins running up & down like emus (in 90% humidity & all dressed up) to finally find the vehicle. I was so excited I did a handstand. & I forgot I was wearing a skirt.

So, ranting is good!! Like @winston I was watching your weather too. Up north we have terrible flooding-even in Alice Springs which, meteorologically speaking, is nuts.

@winston cross country skiing looks great! Water skiing is more my level but I used to ice skate.  I was as graceless as a baboon, though. In fact, Date Number 2 with hubby was at a local ice rink & naturally he had to show off skating backwards…. 🙄😬

Puro xx

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Oops that was @scaryb

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Halloo all ! Speaking of aliens  ….. 🙂 I only recently re-discovered Galaxy Quest? And reminded me that Alan Rickman died just over 10 years ago-14/1/16 😔

@janetteb  @blenkinsopthebrave @whohar scaryB & others…..  Aussies have competed very well in the first few days of the Winter Olympics. I grew up in Sydney, for a little while, so rolling down into snow country & watching the fearlessness & athleticism of these competitors was staggering. I only tried a half-board & mainly sat on my bum! 🤣

Puro (still sitting on my derrière ).
@dentarthurdent I think the imitation of aliens as humans works well; mostly  -it’s a shock reveal which puzzles…. For awhile.

And isn’t the Doctor also impersonating humans? But he certainly has a fascination for us & a very protective streak as opposed to [some of] the villains so I get your point.

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@whohar what music do you like?
@nerys I’m with you on the avant garde of Copland’s music -it’s hard going!

are you interested in the music of South Africa, at all? I was thinking of Michael Mosoeu Moerane of the Bafokeng who wrote some fabulous choral pieces: his study of counterpoint, orchestration & open score dictation led him to create tonally distinct, polyphonic works, some in the sacred tradition.

But a lot of his music, idiomatic, & in the vernacular, was lost until about 8 years ago. As was the case with many African classical-style composers of the region.

Puro 🤗

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@ps1l0v3y0u By george she did it!!

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Ooops that was @whohar too. And @ps1l0v3y0u @janetteb glad you’re spared, this time. The heat wave is impressively awful though.

I remember in the 80s with weeks of heat at C37+ & school letting us out at 11:45 with arvos at friend’s pools or a cheeky sneak into the back of cool movie theatres.

The kettle story is a great one. I had similar experiences in Hungary & the then Czechoslovakia with a few electrical issues & toilet paper violations …. 😀

@mudlark I’m so sorry about your friend. It sounds like you had a great relationship which began in such a funny way, as these often do.

I’ve had so many kettles blacking out our house that I’ve since boycotted the damn things (they are so expensive) & now use a tiny pot on stove which boils delightfully without all the nasty mineral ‘bits’ (how scientifically descriptive of me!) which appear in the bottom of the kettle & ruin tea.

Unfortunately my only visit to Winchester & accompanying sites was a half day (during which Thane complained of being hungry every 60 seconds). @mudlark were you part of the Winchester Excavation Committee?

Rear Window is a fabulous film. What did you think of Oppenheimer? I have a love-hate relationship with it.

I’m relieved your thrombo (can we just call it that?) hasn’t deteriorated further. I recall, when you gave me tips on soil movement & plant nutrition, that much of your gardening work had to be completed very slowly or else your back would chronically play up. The Wiki description also mentioned platelet sequestration…. had to look that up too!

Puro.

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@ whohar @nerys @PS  oh yes! Sibelius’ style was something I came to appreciate much later in life. @PS I first read that post without my glasses & read “prism of the Frog.” Ok, there, better research THAT one, as I’ve never heard of The Frog. I thought it’s probably a libretto by Aristophanes with music by Schoenberg because that’s EXACTLY what he’d do 😀

The issue with Copeland’s programme music was me wanting to love it but noticing how his parallel 5ths -which you would’ve heard repeatedly too (taboo in voice leading harmony requiring independent melodic lines) led me to shout out involuntarily “nooooo he’s breakin’ the rules!!!” 😩

But those choices created such a feeling of the unconfined American Mid-West (the looming prairie space, along with Whitman’s & Sandberg’s  accompanying poetry) that I haven’t heard often except thru maybe Charles Ives; Bela Fleck & The Flecktones.

@winston @mudlark I’m with you, Winston on Crumblitude. What a great word.— Which doesn’t apply to either of you!

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@nerys @mudlark @whohar @PS

absolutely! Copland’s work was gorgeous. I think I was 10 or 11 & thought ELP composed Fanfare for the Common Man & Hoedown.

🤣 PDQ Bach (Peter Schickele) wrote Fanfare for the Common Cold. He died in 2024. It’s a fun 2 mins satire for a brass quintet. On YouTube too. @whisht we need you …… !

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@PS @whohar

ooh yes, I’m a Brahms fan. And I also like him because he understood the significance of technique (you mentioned this too, Whohar & its application to written structures) & that the pre-Romantic tradition of tight, organised, quite rules-driven composition needed to be understood before moving into an area where breaking rules could deliver something [else] magical.

In my heart I’m a classicist -Beethoven is ingenious, his structure, unearthly harmonies combined with his preferred scales & keys were connected to assured & perfect musical communication.

Critics at the time, & later, saw Beethoven’s music -whilst still classical in form -had effected a geological upheaval, with musical contours lying at strange angles underneath the surface of an entirely new & different landscape.

Brahms found that fascinating.

But yes, Wagner was no fan of Brahms & whilst the latter seemed to dislike Wagner, Brahms privately enjoyed Wagner’s esotericism. And if anyone was psychotic it was definitely Wagner.  😀

Absolutely PS, Goodall disliked Serialism as did the entire listening public. But he doesn’t dismiss all of the 20th century composers, just Boulez & Schoenberg.

And Schoenberg was a student of Beethoven in his own way. if I listen to Schoenberg, now, I get headaches!

@mudlark I’m so thrilled that finally you’ll see the publication of the papers associated with the archeological digs. I’ll write a longer response tomorrow.

Good night all!
Puro.

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@winston

I realised I hadn’t read your post properly. 😞
I hope your leg isn’t ailing you too much? Falls are an awful part of life.

Where we live, many paths have had roots & tree trunks encroaching on them & so daily walks are best, but if it’s hot, then evening walks are the only option. & then …..crash.

I like Russel Tovey too. First time I saw him was in one of the finales of Tennant’s Doctor? And then in an episode of Sherlock.

@mudlark happy new year to you, also. I hope your health is good? In our new year celebration, & for some reason, in addition to Diehard movies, we watched Clint Eastwood’s A Fistful of Dollars. Whoo! That was …..loud. 😬 I hadn’t seen this in 15 or more years.

@janetteb are you at risk of the bushfires (again)? or is it the terrible heat I recall from Adelaide summers? even here, we’ve had A/C on during the night, otherwise it’s ice buckets over head before bed & that leads to the dreaded …..chill.

Puro.

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@whohar (I’ve DMed you too).

honestly, one of the best books on the Romantic style of music (ie 19th century) & its relationship with the social & political climate of its time, is Leon Plantinga’s [Yale] Romantic Music: A History of Musical Style… the chapter on Brahms is revealing. It can be borrowed.

The other is Jan Swafford, Brahms, A Biography. It’s a great read, & not dry. Also, Malcolm (or Calum) MacDonald, Brahms.

But as I mentioned, the Wiki article is pretty good & summarises his compositions; styles, “enemies” or frenemies 🙂 & his relationships with musicians or artists.

Kindest, Puro.

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@whohar

one of my dear professors, Bebbington, loved Brahms, though himself, a student of Wagner & his conducting, recalled how Wagner enthusiasts fanatics interfered with the premiere of Brahms’ 3rd. Brahms, eternally calm, wrote hidden allusions to Wagner in some of his works.

It’s rarely played, & like a lot of his work, sometimes metrically ambiguous & antiquarian. The 3rd mvt’s famous; lots of gritty strings but winds, brass, tacet.

And it looks like we might be missing timpani…. 😳 I’ll get back to you.

Puro

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