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27 December 2023 at 11:18 #75158
Seems like I am going against the grain here but I thought it was awful. Huge plot holes and weak characterisation. Not feeling the love for Ruby from this showing. I did like Cherry though.
I’m not a fan of the Christmas Specials generally, so will assume this is going to be an outlier….
21 December 2023 at 21:52 #75093@everyone,
Well, it’s that time of the year again.
Regardless of your belief system, or whether you think it’s the most wonderful time of the year, a consumerist nightmare full of enforced jollity, or struggle to cope due to illness, being differently abled, neuro divergent, or just have bad memories of this time of year, I think there is still a message we can all get behind. So, I’d just like to say:
Peace on Earth and Good will to all.
And Pro Tip: take some time out to relax during this hectic period. The best time being between Christmas Day and New Year’s Eve, or the Merryneum as it’s now known.
20 December 2023 at 20:39 #75088Hi Declan,
Thanks for reaching out. I’d like to reiterate what’s been said above, especially Craig who gave you some contact details of various organisations.
It sounds like you have multiple issues going on (your health, your family’s health, safety concerns over your property…). As much as we’d all like to help here, in reality you need to talk to some professionals to help you solve your immediate concerns, as well as any long-term issues. I cannot stress this enough.
I don’t speak for the Forum, but I’d say don’t worry about your multiple posts – posting is obviously helping you get through your day, and that’s a good thing.
Things can quickly become / seem overwhelming. What I find helps is to centre myself – you can do this several ways:
– meditation, or just deep breath and gather your thoughts;
– go outside / change your environment if only for 10 minutes – somewhere quiet can help here. You like nature, so finding somewhere more bucolic can help. If not, find a park, a tree…..; this can help stop a negative spiral.
– making a list of your current concerns is also helpful: it organises your thoughts, helps prioritise things, and it gives you something to tick off when you’ve done the task / solved the issue – remarkably therapeutic. I did this just yesterday and it worked a treat. YMMV.
Obviously, this being Christmas, if you’re making a list make sure you check it twice. 🙂
– focus on what’s good – I realise this isn’t always easy, but it can be helpful: you are with family, Molly is there etc.
I hope the above helps, at least somewhat, and that you get some peace. Merry Christmas Declan.
20 December 2023 at 06:52 #75079Some talk about Helena Bonham Carter joining Who.
Apparently RTD on R2 Jo Whiley show: “She’s [HBC] been offered and madam was too busy but not this time”
If true, who d’ya reckon she’ll be playing? Hopefully a new villain…..
20 December 2023 at 03:31 #75078Hi Declan,
Not much to add to the advice and support offered by the lovely people here (@ps1l0v3y0u, @juniperfish, @craig, and of course Grandma @winston ).
However, it does seem like we are online at the same time quite alot, (Maybe even same time zone), so feel free to reach out if you need a chat, and I’ll try to respond in a timely manner (I noticed your posts yesterday but was out and working, so couldn’t respond).
18 December 2023 at 21:41 #7506618 December 2023 at 21:39 #75065See above….
18 December 2023 at 21:33 #75064<span class=”useratname”>@ps1l0v3y0u</span>
I had some issues with posting on there also.
Yeah, there are lots of options but Chibnall didn’t really seem all that interested. Like you say, maybe he wasn’t allowed. In that case he should have argued better or walked away.
I’m sure, given sometime and thought any number of people on here could come up with a decent female-led story, so it’s strange that the lead writer of Who didn’t. Is all I’m saying.
Re the Who historicals: I thought the Chibnall one’s leant very heavily into the historical and bolted on the Who part, which I find very unsatisfying.
I much prefer a Who story where the outcome affects history, but in a way we already kind of know about. E.g the spaceship exploding at the end of City of Death being the trigger for life on Earth, or the other crash that started the Great Fire of London, that sort of thing.
To end on a positive Chibnall note: that bit in Rosa where Graham realises he is the one that Rosa Parkes is being asked to move for, was just lovely acting. The look on Bradley Walsh’s face spoke volumes. I suspect that was down to Walsh’s acting rather than Chibnall’s writing (ok, so not all that positive then).
18 December 2023 at 02:52 #75057Seems like a Christmas special idea right here:
15 December 2023 at 11:31 #75028Wild Danish Blue Yonder
15 December 2023 at 11:24 #75027A Gouda Man Goes to War
The Parting of the Wheys
Captain Colby Jack Harkness
15 December 2023 at 03:11 #75021As I was watching, I wondered if the cut cards would yield anything meaningful. When the 8 Clubs came up, I was a bit stumped, but knew someone here would have an in-depth view.
For my part, it seemed to be a bit of foreshadowing, and with “Eight” sounding like “Ate” and a Club looking a bit like a Brassica, my suspicions were confirmed right at the end, when Cauliflower Cheese was served up at the meal. Expect this dish to turn out to be the Big Bad of 15’s first season. 🙂
15 December 2023 at 03:09 #75020Hello, and welcome.
My assumption from watching the ep was that the Bi-generation allowed 15 to “shed” all his angst, leaving it in 14, which then 14 would work through in his (more) sedentary retirement. And 14 would not be able to regen / bi-gen again, so would age “normally” and presumably die of old age / accident or illness at some point in the future. This new era is meant to be a soft reboot, so that makes sense, in my head at least.
Regarding every previous regeneration being a bi-generation, then I don’t really have a definitive answer here. I understand RTD2 said this, but there is no in-show evidence (yet) that the previous regens were bi-gens. If anything the in-show dialogue seemed to go against this. I’d have to watch it again but 15 (?) made a comment along the lines of “I’ve heard this [bi-gen] was a possibility but….”, from which I infer the bi-gen was a) unusual, and b) never experienced by the Doc before.
Your analysis of the implications of every regen being a bi-gen highlights a number of problems with this in terms of in-show DW logic, and I don’t have any answers that make sense (yet!). I’m sure the Collective will come up with something though….
I think this is the BBC not having the courage of its convictions when casting a black lead. The casting is well overdue anyway and smacks of tokenism
I am intrigued by this comment, particularly the first part. While I can easily envisage a situation where 14 sticks around, with a spin-off (assuming lots of boring stuff like: is the actor up for it, do they have the budget for it, who would be assigned to write it etc….is sorted out), in reality they could have brought Tennant back as 10 at any time., and still could. OK, he’s aged somewhat but this can be “handwaved and vibed” away quite easily in-story. I think the reason for the creative decision to do a split like the bi-gen was to give the soft reboot a fresh-ish slate to work with, and that’s all.
I’d be surprised if the BBC thought a black Doctor would drive audiences away, even with the ratings experience they had with a female lead. If anything, I’d say that RTD2 is more of a recognition that the stories that 14 had to work with did not engage well with the audience. The Doc’s gender then just became a stick that some of t’Internet thought they could use to beat the show with. As for tokenism, I think there’s plenty of evidence that the BBC have not done that here (being sensitive to the changing audience is not the same thing).
14 December 2023 at 23:43 #75017“…Sheer campery”
from Eccleston. I’m definitely using that.
Great video – they are still obviously very fond of each other.
Loving Chris’s fondness / nostalgia for his Northern, working-class roots. I’d love to have a couple of pints and a chat with him – not about DW per se, but I bet he’s fascinating to talk with.
I’ve read about the behind-the-scenes discord on the show during Eccleston’s time – and Eccleston mentions several names here. Pretty bluntly it has to be said. Is there a definitive article somewhere that explains what actually went on?
14 December 2023 at 12:22 #75011That’s a really interesting, informative, and well written piece. Thanks.
Lots of gems of info in there; the Jasper Carrott – Doctor Who link seems like it should be an obscure pub quiz question (or perhaps a Q in T’Other place’s Thursday Quiz – run, if you weren’t aware, by the G’s #1 Doctor Who fan Martin Belam.)
The point you made about class representation is well made here. I’ve just read @jimthefish ‘s substack article on the politics/representation in DW, I am thinking that “poor people” are another demographic that have traditionally been badly represented in (recent) television, so kudos to Who for bucking that trend somewhat.
And there’s a broader issue in that poverty is a discriminator that is not talked about in the wider media (although the G did have a piece a few months ago), and is as significant in some cases as gender or racial discrimination.
But I am getting a bit heavy for this thread perhaps….
12 December 2023 at 05:31 #74973One of the most bizarre DW-related clips I’ve seen. And with Jabba the
HutGoblin King no less.Christmas is going to be…interesting.
12 December 2023 at 02:13 #74971The Doctor cuts 8…
Definitely need a full and thorough analysis of the potential meaning behind the cards chosen. And I’m sure we are in the right place for that 🙂
Actually, that was my only real quibble with this ep – I was expecting the games, such as they were, to be more cerebral, with puzzles or logical conundrums to be solved, rather than physical challenges to be overcome. Or maybe a mix of the two. I guess throwing a ball around on the top of a tower was more visual, but even so.
12 December 2023 at 01:43 #74970I noticed this line from The Toymaker: ‘I made a jigsaw puzzle of your past – did you like it?’
We know the flux stands, revelations about The Doctor’s origins and the genesis of the Timelords stand. But I wonder about this. Is this a little seed that can be used when needed?
This is a good spot. There was also the Toymaker’s comment about toying with the Master, which made my ears prick up for a similar reason. I wondered if it was RTD2 planting a soupçon of an allusion of a hint of a rebuttal to some of the past aspects of DW he’d like to change.
12 December 2023 at 00:46 #74969Thanks. Is that the Evil Dead spinoff / continuation? The ED movie scared the bejaysus outta me when first I saw it, although I was pretty young at the time. ED II didn’t have the same impact, although I clearly remember the scene with the detached hand that was trapped under a bucket with a pile of books hastily applied to ensure the thing (!) couldn’t escape. The topmost book being A Farewell to Arms. Great joke.
12 December 2023 at 00:42 #74968I guess it’s consistently inconsistent. Good to have something in life to rely on…
And, regarding your mention of Mel earlier, I’d maybe expect her to feature again somewhere – otherwise it seemed a bit of a shoehorn. Maybe a UNIT spin-off with Donna also, in an episode called Code Redhead, or something.
11 December 2023 at 09:33 #74959The Black Guardian is another good call for a recurring BG villain.
The Key to Time was one of the earliest DW series that had a through thread I think. Maybe the earliest? There was also the 3rd Doctor’s Master series but this was rather more loosely held together. More of a theme I think, but let’s go with it.
The first Doctor’s The Chase maybe an even earlier threaded series? I’m not all that familiar so will defer to the greater knowledge of the Forum hive mind on this one…
11 December 2023 at 09:26 #74958Sarcasm
Definitely. It called back also to Davros’s rant (that word again) at 10 about the Children of Time, and how the Doctor made them his weapons.
11 December 2023 at 07:12 #74953@scaryb et al
I think there are 3 options for RTD2’s / 15’s Big Bad:
1. Something new.
2. Something from a non-TV version of DW (similar to the Meep)
3. Something from the classic series.
I don’t think it will be 1 (just a gut feeling), 2 has just been done, so that leaves 3. My guess is it will have to be a big villain that’s not been used in NuWho so far. I’m going for Omega.
11 December 2023 at 06:30 #74952what’s stopping RTD from revisiting this idea over and over again? Is this going to be a recurring thing now, with the Doctor “splitting” like an amoeba every time he’s mortally injured?
I guess the answer is nothing, but I suspect it won’t happen again, for a while at least. Could be wrong, probably will be.
And, talking about Bi Generation: until the modern era the regenerations were often….inconsistent: 4 to 5 being a prime example here with The Watcher, which is almost a reverse bi-generation if you think about it (two into one does go in this case, it seems. Then again, the moment had been prepared for).
What Raimi movie is that btw?
11 December 2023 at 04:57 #74950I admit to some reservations when I heard that RTD and Tennant were returning – my concern being that the show was in such deep trouble that it could only be saved by bringing the band back together. And that bringing the band back together is never as good as the first time around.
However, I think it’s all worked out very well, and I liked the bi-regeneration (Bi Generation?) as it moves the show on into a new era. Let’s not forget also that Steven Moffat had great difficulty in killing off characters: Clara, Amy and Rory and even 11 all died-but-didn’t-die-really on his tenure. And then there’s River who died in the first story we met her only to have her whole story told out of sequence. Point is: all showrunners have their favourite characters and sometimes struggle to let them go. The writers are fans remember and we also sometimes struggle to move on.
I do wonder if RTD was making this point (a bit) in the “Well that’s all right then” puppet sequence in the Giggle. Probably me overthinking it again….
11 December 2023 at 04:02 #74948The only thing I really want to see is Tennant saying ‘I want to go’,
Allons-y is close enough I guess….
11 December 2023 at 01:13 #74945Two other random thoughts:
1. After the bi-generation and the clothes share, it occurred to me that 14 had gone commando. Strange the way the brain works.
2. Tonally, I thought the scene with 14, Donna et al a bit off. The, frankly, unmitigated horror was too much for me, and I had to turn away for a moment. Cauliflower Cheese! <shudders>
11 December 2023 at 00:16 #74944He might become the Curator.
This is interesting. Someone else said this to me, and I went away and thought about this for far longer than is healthy. That would mean that 14 at some point regenerates at least once and can – potentially – choose his new face.
My assumption was that 14 wouldn’t be able to regenerate again, but maybe it’s another bifurcation (“bi” again) in the Doctor. My initial thought is that I’d prefer it if he couldn’t regenerate again but there are some interesting possibilities if he can. Needs more (!) thought.
And…I thought Kate L-S comment (during her rant) about not trusting people who use a wheelchair and can also stand was actually a terrific bit of that scene. It also showed people can be differently abled in lots of ways, so think before you rant. Loved that the standing up was foreshadowed in the Meep when she crossed her legs – it’s almost as if RTD2 has been thinking about this.
10 December 2023 at 23:41 #74943A bit late to this party, due to Timey-zone, Wimey-zone stuff. I only watched this Sunday morning (my time) and was then out at the theatre in the evening, so didn’t get the chance to post before now.
And I’ve not read any other comments, so apologies for any repetition. And apologies for any repetition.
First off – I really enjoyed this. From my perspective – everything’s relative right? – I thought the specials improved as they went along. The Meep was a bit meh (The Mehp?), and the WBY I thought was terrific. I admit to some pre-viewing concerns about this ep, mainly because of the title “The Giggle” didn’t fill me with inspiration, but my fears were allayed in the first 10 minutes.The Toymaster did go full Prince Ludwig from Blackadder @ps1l0v3y0u, @phaseshift. But showed his sinister side with that “sunnier climes” comment. With the excellent “I was born in Cheltenham” as the response.
And this tone continued: some social commentary mixed in with some good jokes. My favourite: after Kate L-S was restrained and her inhibitor restored and she started apologising to everyone for her rant, except to Donna / Mel for the “gingers” retort. There was a fairly subtle look that Donna gave to Mel just at that point which topped it off beautifully. I love things like that.
RTD2 was clearly on a crusade regarding the lack of tolerance in society, (someone should invite him here to show him it’s not all bad), and he certainly doubled down with the bi-generation. I thought there was a thunderstorm here in the early hours of Sunday morning (when the ep aired in Aus), but now realise it was part of the internet cracking in two.
Anyhoo, I shall now go and read the comments from you lovely people, and may post again once I’ve ordered my thoughts.
7 December 2023 at 01:55 #74834All shiny and clean too!
Nice to be back somewhere civilised…
My recent post on the WBY forum about Louisa Harland, got me to a-thinking about Irish Folk Tales. I’m sure there is some mileage for Who in a “Celtic season” leaning on the traditional Irish Fairy and Folk tales. There be Fairies / Fae, Giants, Ghosts, Gods and Tir-na-n-OG (Country of the Young, that age and death have not found).
I’m no expert, and I’m sure @juniperfish, @miapatrick et al will have a considered view. Interested in everyone’s thoughts on this.
6 December 2023 at 02:47 #748276 December 2023 at 01:38 #74826I would hope that’s not true, and would be a bit shocked if it were. Hopefully next time they will get it right. It would be nice to see Louisa Harland (Orla from Derry Girls) in the TARDIS…
But I’m getting off-topic. Any further Chibnall rambling by me will go under @jimthefish Chibnall retrospective blog.
6 December 2023 at 00:27 #74823<p style=”text-align: left;”>@JimTheFish</p>
Yes!Not your standard Hollywood fare…
I’ll search out the DVD version for the extras. Thanks
6 December 2023 at 00:21 #74822I think if it’s a good story, the casting will quickly become a non-issue and, if the story is poor, the casting then becomes a stick to beat the writer / showrunner etc.
That was one of the problems with Chibnall’s run. He had a huge opportunity to use the Doctor’s gender change and tell some different stories / from different perspectives, but it didn’t happen. What a waste.
5 December 2023 at 23:15 #748194 December 2023 at 23:30 #74798the Toymaker is just the kind of guy who finds adopting foreign stereotypes hilarious.
Well, he is the “villain”. It reminded me of this from Blackadder II:
Blackadder:
Oh, yes. We are proud of our comic serving-wench voice, aren’t we? Just because we can say ‘Zur’ instead of ‘Sir,’ it seems at all social gatherings the tedious little turd who keeps putting on amusing voices.Prince Ludwig:
[miffed] BE QUIET!Blackadder:
What else have you got in your astoundingly inventive repertoire, I wonder? Aaah, a brilliant drunk Glasweigan, no doubt. An hilarious black man: ‘See you Jimmy, where am dat watty-melon?’ Oh, fabulous. I can’t wait for your side-splitting poof, and that funny little croaky one who isn’t anyone in particular, but is such a scream. And most of all, I like the one you do all the time, the fatheaded German chamber pot standing in front of me.The Doctor back on the Elizabethan court but with Blackadder, Nursey, Melchett et all. Now that’s a crossover I’d like to see…
3 December 2023 at 10:42 #74751And agree with the mavity/gravity wording @miapatrick and the Doctor’s salt-vampire superstition concerns @juniperfish . There is something going on….
At last! I’ve written a post without any tpyos!
3 December 2023 at 10:24 #74750Terrific.
Creepy and funny, and with a hesrtstring tug (Wilf!), which is always makes for a good Episode.
The bit with the Doctor “skateboarding” the TARDIS towards Donna made me actually laugh out loud.
3 December 2023 at 06:07 #747482 December 2023 at 05:57 #74729<p style=”text-align: center;”>@devilishrobby @dentarthurdent</p>
There’s also a steelbook of the Colourised Dalek “movie” they showed on the BBC on the 23rd November.They are generally Blu-ray or 4k (so higher quality than a dvd), and often have extra art on the inside cover. Plus some extra content on the disks, but not always.
They do look great and seem to have come to prominence in recent years, mainly I think because people were not buying the plain DVD when a stream is available. So they are now verging into the collectable territory.
I’ve just ordered the 60th and aforementioned Dalek steelbooks (my first ones) as a bit of an indulgence. They are popping up everywhere atm – Disney have released a steelbook range as part of their 100 year celebration.
2 December 2023 at 05:48 #747281 December 2023 at 11:52 #74721No one says ‘London Town’ from day to day.
Where I’m from (not London), we used to use the expression “I’m going out in Town” or “going up to Town” when this in fact meant going into the city, so it’s not as uncommon as you might think.
I’m a little surprised people found it so jarring – it’s not as if someone said “Cor lummy, that’s a right pickle and no mistake”, which is certainly in Mary Poppins territory.
1 December 2023 at 10:38 #74719And one comment on the terminology (@miapatrick may be interested):
There’s a British song from the 1940s called “Maybe Its Because I’m a Londoner” that contains the lyric:
“Well, maybe it’s because I’m a Londoner
That I love the London town”So “London Town” is British English it seems.
Unlike the “cover my six” line that, along with “I’ve got eyes on….<person / thing>”, immediately indicates a US (influenced) writer.
Happy to help…..
1 December 2023 at 06:36 #74718Good to be back – I’ve been away cleaning the bath. It’s a big job, and you know how it is when that last bit of scum won’t go. Thankfully I managed to get Iain Duncan Smith out of the door eventually.
To the episode:
A bit of a curate’s egg for me. I got a Christmas special vibe from it, and they are not my favourite eps. Caveat: I’ve only watched it once, and – weirdly – generally prefer eps. on a second viewing.
Good to see the band back together. Some good humour, and some great visuals. New TARDIS is a big plus, although very bright. I liked the new Sonic Wand functionality, although wondering how outlandish they will go with it, and how much the stories will be driven by previously unknown sonic abilities.
The plot was a little bit underwhelming, and the resolution was classic RTD handwaving and vibes. I’m thinking of this as, essentially, an hour-long expositional episode before the real fun starts.
I have to say I was somewhat concerned when I first heard the RTD was returning and then Tennant – it seems like maybe the BBC had pressed the panic button. My concerns are allayed atm, although I would have liked 14 to be less like 10.
I’ve seen lots of comments elsewhere that fall into two categories: “preachy rubbish” or “best episode ever”. My 2c: I thought the non-binary, non-binary, non-binary bits felt pretty natural, if not a little clunky in places. They served the story though, and that’s a big plus for me. And, I think there is a huge relief that we are not in the Chibnall era now, and I suspect the some of the collective praise is reflective of that. (actually that was more like my 1.5c). As expected, it’s good to get some nuance on here.
A couple of Qs:
Was that Avengers Tower thing the new UNIT HQ?
I may have missed a bit, but didn’t Donna talk to 14 about his regeneration prior to her knowing it wasn’t 10?
30 November 2023 at 09:08 #74711Hello everyone. Apologies for the long gap between postings. I’ve been cleaning the bath.
19 July 2015 at 06:34 #41275For all the (potential) writers out there, the BBC have announced their window for drama script submissions:
We have just announced the dates for our next Script Room for the submission of unsolicited scripts in the Drama genre.
The Script Room will open on Monday 7th September 2015 at 10am and close at 5pm on Thursday 24th September 2015. **Please note that no late submissions will be accepted**
Good luck
30 March 2015 at 12:34 #39311I didn’t realise so many writers frequented these boards. Very happy to give you both feedback; I deal mainly in scriptwriting but a lot of principles are the same. DM me if you want to.
On a broader note, I think my idea for a forum written Who ep could work. Not sure about the mechanics of it, but I am sure we have the knowledge and talent. Perhaps a call for ideas on the Fan creativity area? 2-3 lines summary to start, with a vote for the most promising and then a short precis of the full script? Not sure how it would work after that, maybe one person could run with it and then take feedback?
30 March 2015 at 07:55 #39302@purofilion
Thanks.@donnanoble has made a smart move in asking for feedback, no matter how nerve-wracking that can be. Part of writing is accepting positive feedback, as is re-writing. A lot of re-writing.
I don’t mind the re-writing part so much bit generally have 3 or 4 scripts in various stages on the go to keep it interesting. Funnily enough I am waiting for feedback on one right now.
@jimthefish
I checked out Writersroom for submissions. Currently doing comedy but drama is TBD, in the autumn.
Also looked at Amazon Studios, most interesting thanks. Again they want comedies and children’s shows which I am not working on right now (unless I can squeeze some jokes into my WWII drama). My feature is kinda taken. Kinda. I will take another look though.30 March 2015 at 05:37 #39299How short is the short story? 10 pages, 20?
In the opening, you need to set the scene pretty quickly – maybe in the first 10% of your story, so 1 or 2 pages. Exposition.
I’m not really getting a sense of either the place (where, when) or any of the main characters (who they are, what drives them). In DW terms think of the pre-credit sequence, although TV is fast paced and economic.
I see there is a threat but you need an incident that will set your story off on it’s narrative path, the Inciting Incident.
You have chosen a difficult medium, with the restriction on length. Maybe send through an overall story outline and then we can see where you are going. Hope this helps.
What is the competition, out of interest?
27 March 2015 at 02:53 #39245Many thanks for the geographical info, it certainly makes for interesting reading. Pretty global coverage, although I am disappointed at our lack of penetration in Outer Mongolia but I recognise this is probably down to lack of local infrastructure.
And don’t give the script a second thought. It was good of you to offer as, like you say, RL. You have much more important work keeping the forum running.
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