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17 November 2025 at 10:51 #78320
I still maintain Church, Babies and Devil were coming from the right place… but the execution is unaccountably off.
Also… song and dance went away after Devil. Came back a bit for Lux. Actually I don’t mind it. Though it’s not very well done.
So… was it Disney’s brief? ‘Ok’, says Russ ‘but two eps only.’
As for the ‘off’ feel, that maybe rushed preparation. It may be subservience to the arc… which is still not complete. Then you have to wonder if it will be completed. The more I look at all Moff’s seasons, the less I think they were completed according to his original design.
17 November 2025 at 10:35 #78319@translatorcircuit @dentarthurdent
Small episode: NOT… ‘the end of time itself!!!’ Not a Reality Bomb. T’bloody Floox. Entropy (what yer gonna do about it?) Sutekh’s gift of Death. Maybe the paradox machine was just about acceptable. And the Fendahl was ok. Generally small threats. To companions, the hero, maybe the odd civilisation.
Funny you have it in for Midnight, and The Well… but then I like the Mara stories.
17 November 2025 at 10:18 #78318@translatorcircuit @whohar @janetteb
colorisations and edits… The Daleks was well received; War Games not, and rightly… I was very excited at the time: it’s an outstanding story but it should really have been divided into two specials… War Games and Time Lords. However, the original 250 mins is far too long.
Sea Devils? I’ll have to watch it. Katy Manning did carry the burden of Laziest Who Hack Writing for Women. And Pertwee could be excellent or really get on your nerves. As a Crimhead I hope they don’t cut The Devil’s Triangle by Crimson.
Moff (or Chib) dubbed the Silurians Homo Reptilia. So the new name has (inaccurate) form. And Silurian itself is a misnomer unless the reptiles were named for an older master race of Squids or Prawns.
But reptile can’t be hominids. Really the SD’s should be something like Testudines Sapiens. Or maybe that’s specist.
16 November 2025 at 20:24 #78308I hadn’t realised you didn’t see this first time round. It IS a marmite ep and I struggle to find enormous virtue therein, BUT… thematically and politically it’s sound. The problem is the plot seems undeveloped. There are a couple of nods to later in the series, but the babies in heavily armed buggies remind me of a certain classic Who villain, who you might say were a kind of innocent.
And then they all sail off into the brown cloud sunset… give me a laugh…
Why? Colossal misjudgment? Creator hubris? Or the arc… there are lots of references to VR. Was THAT it? Is it good art? It gets better. Maybe NOT the next one. Let me know when.
16 November 2025 at 14:40 #78305yes. The only solution is to copy from pages
Anyway… love to read the full version.
I liked it. Xmas specials aren’t really Moff’s thing. Not a great rec for 2026…
15 November 2025 at 14:49 #78303‘Failed’ specials… part 2
The Moffat legacy. The last four, even the very slightly pedestrian Twice, were seriously good. Time of The Doctor, however, has an exposition problem. And it’s the conclusion of the Pandorica/Silence/Trenzalore arc. The Snowmen, as the second introduction of Clara and a mid series special, is also effected by this. The effect of Clara dying again, is really downbeat. But the rest of the story is magnificent and, I think, was intended to seed the narrative we SHOULD be expecting in the future. Even now. Will it happen though?
Back to ‘Time’… the first 25 minutes are genius level: ‘you’re naked’, cook the turkey, here’s gran, urban pontiff… I love it… then the big reveal… the crack and… something went wrong with the arc.
Voice over exposition. You rarely get away with it.
Hurried snatches of not very amusing set pieces. A joke about sonics and wood. Clara gets stuck in the Vortex. Then Tasha Lem makes with quite a duff info dump. Ok there’s war in the future involving religion and a bunch of heretic with time travel and:
1. Get the Doctor stuck in the Pandorica
2. By blowing up the Tardis. Oh end of Universe.
3. How did they do that? When was the Doctor separated from the Tardis. When he’s with Craig. Cos the flat upstairs is a Silence spaceship (though 11 denies this about as convincingly as his explanation of River’s heritage in Good Man)
4. Oh and Amy was on the Tardis as well. And she was kidnapped ‘sometime before America.’ And the American Diner is involved.
5. Then River is turned into sociopath.
Now, there’s wibly timey wimey and there’s plot diarrhoea. We’d crucify Chib for this. But Moff does have style. It helps. Maybe it’s all because the Kovarian faction are a bunch of religious nutjobs. Maybe this (the whole arc) was where Moff is first got at. Not what he wanted to write.
But the third and fourth fifths of ‘Time’ is as incoherent as Moff gets. I absolutely love the regeneration though. ‘Raggedy Man.’
It’s interesting that the ‘extra’ regeneration cycle and the return of Gallifrey were two of the three big things that Chib trashed in Timeless Children. Actually Chris, from a distance, the Trenzalore arc really isn’t that bad.
14 November 2025 at 18:12 #78302Ok tis the season to get an earful… backward in time through 2nd tier xmas specials.
Church on Ruby Road; the one with the singing goblins.
Thesis… yeah you can have singing goblins. And a singing Doctor. And companion. It’s alright. A bit odd. But Chib had The Master grooving on down to Rasputin. Moff had Katherine Jenkins. Equally odd.
Context. I don’t really think Russ likes Christmas, it was always like a contractural obligation for him. Of course you’re comparing him with Moff, who (mostly) has it sussed. What do people watch at Christmas??
Invasion… the big movie
Voyage… disaster movie
Next… Christmas historical
End… nine lessons and carols??
Bride… undefinable… he hadn’t really established the pattern in 2006.
So Church would appear to ‘do’ the Christmas family musical except, of course, song and dance will reemerge in Devil and Lux. Add the off beat humour of Babies and the Eagle Annual design of Robot Revolution and fans start pointing fingers at Disney. It’s not popular. But curiously Russ gets the blame. It is actually done best here… but then it has the slightly desultory ‘feel’ of the other missteps and the out of control season ends.
Was it written in a rush? Was it hard to get the stars ‘onboard?’ Did Russ even sabotage the hypothetical Disney wish-list? It’s weird. And there is unrelated noise. And Russ, being Russ, is playing to the shouty gallery.
Song, dance, family fun and fantasy is not actually the worst thing about Church. Rather it’s the boring business of establishing the arc. Because this is all about Ruby who is an obvious metaphor for retelling of the main point of Timeless Children. Now, is it in fact Russ saying ‘you can’t DO it like that, Chris!’ Or ‘this was prime Cartmel 2.0 you idiot, and now I have to fix it!’ Though he would never say that for the sake of the show.
I’m not saying it shouldn’t be done… only that Russ doesn’t handle the process very well either. There are longeurs and laborious explanations that can only be there to establish the arc, but this is Christmas Russ! I ate too many nuts before midday and Grandma’s here. Light and frothy please.
Of course, it’s a nine ep series including the special (thank you again Disney). No days off.
It’s alright. Not a Moff special. Gatwa and Gibson may seem a bit awkward but then we’ve seen this process before… is that the source of the awkwardness? Better than Whitaker and Walsh!
The Mrs Flood epilogue is the intriguing part… in particular her reaction to The Tardis. Would grousing to the council official or dropping your shopping be the actual Rani’s reaction to a police box? It seems she IS the Rani (we know that now) but the bigeneration does pose the question, what does happen if you ARE two people? Might one of them be a surprise? Someone we recognise, but not in terms of THAT character?
9 November 2025 at 08:27 #78301Mitchell and Webb: Many favourites. The post apocalyptic game show, Sir Digby Chicken Caesar… most all ‘Get Me Hennimore’… just a bog standard parody of 70’s sitcoms and then one week they utterly subverted it… something to do with the Klan… I can’t remember now. It’s up there with the Shaun The Sheep when Shirley ate the Ipod, or Johnny Nice Painter from the Fast Show.
9 November 2025 at 08:21 #78300Series 1: up until The Slitheen.
Actually, there are plenty of parallels here with RTD2: the occasional and very deliberate bad taste, the ludicrous and self-serving nature of government, the cartoony humour (Rose, the Slitheen stories, End of The World), the seeding of the Time War arc (Unquiet Dead), the occasional ‘flat’ notes, the reinvention of the classics (Rose actually… successful but still something of an experiment)
We have to accept these are Russell’s calling cards.
The difference is that:
The first time, it had the feel of the show being raised by its own bootstraps: the fans were delighted and Russ was determined that it COULD not fail. So, does that mean there were still some doubters, sharpening knives? Some people will never love the show. But generally there was good will.
The climate was more tolerant. Noise levels were lower. What made the show less flat were the unsympathetic characters like Adam and Micky, the ‘naughtiness’: farty Slitheens, racist unrecognisable humanity (Cassandra)… later it’s Doctor/Companion conflict in Father’s Day, the outrageous innuendo (and spooky horror) of The Doctor Dances, and the game show pastiche of Bad Wolf. This continues in the next season with royal baiting (and deplorable chavvy behaviour) in Tooth and Claw and, apart from the frankly overrated Satan Pit (complete with toxic masculinity), more of the pointy same. Great!
It took risks and yet was coherent. The world loved David Tennant. Russ might have been a manic auxiliary script editor but he wasn’t trying to push the Flying Scotsman on his own.
Also, the series were longer.
But there WAS noise: plenty of kids’ show comments with complaints about romantic content and bad taste (Love and Monsters). Of course, you should never tame Who: it exists with outrageous bad taste and sympathetic (and tolerant) adults watching alongside occasionally scared kids. And we’re talking about kids today. Maybe the risks of 20 years ago look a bit tame, now.
And the noise now is substantially different.
Ironically Russ garnered the great ratings and became a Holmes and Hinchcliffe standard legend. There was some carping about the 2009 specials, but it was Moffat who copped the criticism. Also the BBC also immediately saddled him with Piers Wenger.
7 November 2025 at 16:27 #78295Yes… I have started it.
This IS a harder watch than I remember first time.
1. Good points…
the sense of foreboding over the Toymaker.
The CGI… you couldn’t do that 10 years ago.
The ‘net’ madness… everyone has to be right and no-one is an expert. I have talked about ‘noises off’; it is unbearable. My impression is, never mind Gatwa, the show was targeted after that. Which means Russ is on to something.
The Toymaker… a game of two halves. We’ll see about the second half. Interesting that Russ should lead with such an over-the-top cod German pastiche. I can’t say it’s out of character; and it is still a very British thing… Mitchell and Webb, ‘thinking’ comedians, had self-aware SS officers disturbed by the skulls on their lapels… ‘Hansi! How can ve be ze gut guys?!’ Maybe he’s also touching on Rowan & Martin’s laugh in. ‘Wery interesting but shtoopid!’
He LIKES to make you uneasy.
10 and Donna just slot back together. Talented as Gibson and Gatwa are… it’s a tough act to follow.
The puppet recap… it’s almost a criticism of Moff: No-one dies!!! I’m sure Stukey Bill was meant to return in the arc. Who knows now?
2. ‘interesting points.’
the eight of clubs,
the V’linx… the Doctor just accepts him??
the ‘salt’ theory… it’s not a lampshade but a McGuffin placed back on the shelf; the arc doesn’t start in Wild Blue Yonder but The Star Beast.
Mel is obviously there to have perfect pitch. Lala lalalala Lah!
The satellite sub plot and its resemblance to The Archangel Network is clumsily lampshaded. ‘Oooh no! Can’t be that.’ ie that is what it is.
The gold tooth. Russ did that on his tod. A chekhov’s gun. Max Capricorn had one just like it!
The bigeneration itself. Interesting that they should reboot War Games soon after. But Tennant is now on Ice. Billie rocks up eventually. All the V clues. REG in Rogue’s scan.
3. Problems
UNIT… it’s like a Fam you wheel out to tone down The Doctor when he goes meta and super. (Gruff) Where are the blokes luv? Or Disney just liked the idea.
The exposition. New streaming partner maybe… no this is rushed writing. Russ writes a lot of these two series. It shows. The seasons are short. In the first run he rewrote everyone but Moff. Has Russ got a script editor as good as himself? Probably not.
The games… they are manifestly NOT games but vehicles for The Doctor’s backstory and biregeneration. First thought/best though maybe… or more rushed writing? Also this is a pattern… classic character return… underwhelms. Bad art… or VR?
4. Knowing what’s coming.
The Pantheon… 12 in 1. Watched Fendahl recently. From the 5th planet to Mars (see ep 4) to Earth. A being with 12 (ridiculous) components, and ‘a core’ that, once fully formed, eats life itself. Remind you of anyone?
Continuity… if not Russ going forward, then Who? Will they take all this on? Or will Piers Wenger try to turn it into a soap again?
Still need to watch the end again. Will include with ‘Church.’
7 November 2025 at 07:47 #78292Doctor Who… new directions.
What are we dealing with?
Culture Wars: there is a lot of noise. Is it it real? I prefer continuity in terms of the show’s development and its tradition. I don’t like to feel we (the fans) are being dictated to. Trouble is everyone points at the ratings. A new showrunner won’t necessarily stop the noise.
Streaming Partners & the BBC: apart from the money, why? Did no one look critically at the deal and what would happen as and when someone pulled out? Comes back to continuity in the show’s development. Because RTD/Moff was pretty seamless, but Chib was a nasty shock.
RTD2: How much was the Disney deal his baby? It seems to me that the BBC were trying to ‘Marvelise’ the show after 2014. What the first two Chib series were about I don’t know, but the pressure to sell, seemed to resurfaced with Flux. After the hand over, either the show was rushed, and/or RTD deliberately trashed stuff from the Disney wish list… like song and dance. That died a death. Also the 1950 comic book vibes: the aesthetic may be related to the VR arc but it was as confusing as it was exhilarating. You want a classic villain? Hahaha. So, were the dodgier elements of the last two years almost a Sex Pistols/EMI thing? Take the money. Don’t be controlled. Make them back off?
Continuity: is there a Cartmel 2.0? And what do the BBC think about it now? One special to wrap up those two series will certainly be awkward and maybe messy: one reason I’d like another RTD series. Because there is clearly an unresolved arc cooking and actually I was (obviously) invested in that. Shaking things up could seem like a cheat.
Piers Wenger: what was/is his role? Because he started out as executive producer alongside Moff and then appeared to oversee his demise and the introduction of Chib. Am I blaming him? There is a lot to blame.
McTighe: Kerblam, Praxeus, Lucky Day. Getting better maybe but hardly promising. In terms of writing pure and simple, what is Maxine Alderton doing? My current in show investigation is where do all the good writers go? Cos not many come back.
Jack Thorne? Adolescence and Toxic Town would indicate a darker direction. But Wenger obviously didn’t want Whithouse/Matthieson. OR maybe the streaming age is over, or there’s a very different streamer in the wings.
Not VERY confident.
4 November 2025 at 23:00 #78287Image of the Fendahl.
Reference points: The Stone Tape; Lovecraft; Quatermass and The Pit; it’s horror.
And it’s well done. It’s Chris Boucher. A loss to Who. He went to Blake’s 7 and The Corp wouldn’t allow writers on two simultaneous broadcasts/productions.
They like making things hard for themselves don’t they? I am reminded of the ditching of Gatiss/Whithouse/Matthieson. And we haven’t seen Alderton back yet; she should be a keeper.
It’s also easy to read too much into the departure of Hinchcliffe and Holmes. The BBC was under the cosh. And how do you follow that act?
Fendahl is good. So was Rock and Sunmakers. But the quality of writing, aside from Boucher, Holmes and Dicks, may be the reason we lost Louise Jameson. People also don’t stay forever.
Anyway, I prefered Who to Blake, and this is a really good ep. The next two series continued to be uneven.
Actually this isn’t quite as good as Face of Evil, and nothing can touch Robots. It’s good because of the script: Boucher/Holmes have the gift of underwriting. You go ‘huh?’ Then you depart for a bit of fridge logic, come back and it still works fine.
There are problems. Everyone says ‘Hinchcliffe’, though there are nods to The Demons and Planet of the Spiders; in that respect, the horror is almost a pastiche.
But there’s more to it. This is quite deliberately constructed. Whose idea was it to have the Fendahl migrate from ‘the fifth planet’ to Mars to Earth? Cos I’m thinking Sutekh is a Fendahly Osirian. The Fendahl ‘eats’ life itself… the death of death is life?? I’m also reminded of the noseless ones from T’floox and whaddya know! The whole shenanigans has only been wiped from Time Lord records!! You would think post Moff Cartmel activity has been secretly raiding this era amongst the other more obvious references.
Great writing for Leela too; except she’s pulling out all the stops for the Doctor, new kit and everything, saves his life, gives up, puts on the old kit (musta been in the tumble dryer) and he says ‘I like the new dress!’
So, the writing is on the wall for Leela (sob). They needed more historicals, where Louise could dress up and get laffs.
Otherwise: Edward Arthur is more than a little eye-rolly am dram. Dennis Lills starts out as a German Spaniard but end up Welsh. Wanda Ventham looks happy to be painted gold ten years too late (she auditioned for Goldfinger): it’s a brutal end for her. Stael (the character) is allowed to retire to the Billiards Room with a Webley and a Single Malt, but without the Billiard Room and scotch.
The Fendahleen are ridiculous. I mean, Myrka level… depth.
But it’s as good as anything apart from Ark, Genesis, Pyramid, Robots, Talons, and later, City. It’s as good as Rock or Sunmakers, far better than the rest of the same series.
And Chris WAS good. Apparently Tom took the mick during the read through and thereafter he got very self-conscious.
Why don’t writers stick with Who? Discuss.
1 November 2025 at 10:22 #78283Yeah time for us to bury PotD not damn it with faint praise.
BUT… things DID get slightly better. My current theory is that Chib was initially under quite heavy manners from head of drama, especially over continuity. He may or may not have blamed Moffat for this but, nonetheless, mortal damage was done to ‘the original one might say,’ the unfeasible rescue of The Time Lords, and 11 getting a fresh burst of Artron energy through the crack of doom (presumably the ijit just forgot to regenerate).
Now I’m going to check the Giggle and then proceed to Church on Ruby Road. Then B list xmas shows.
31 October 2025 at 23:52 #78279Power of the Doctor
So, Chibnall awakes from the torpor of series 11 & 12. He’s got the (actually quite vindictive) trashing of Moff’s continuity out of the way and created his very own metaphor for the new streaming villains (t’floox). It’s all a bit kerrazy but sometimes acceptable. Not particularly elegant. But certainly not teeth grindingly abysmal.
So, basically he raids ALL the festive season specials.
Daleks vs (&) Cybermen
Doctor trapped in glass box as per End of Time.
AND the Master becoming someone else.
10: ‘What? What? What?’
Villains shooting themselves in the crossfire
Return of the Companions
Journey’s End stylee multiple Tardis pilots
… there’s more I’m sure.
Limited Moff references… which again is interesting.
But it’s too long. And the set up is extraordinarily tedious. The second half IS better. Except why ARE Daleks and Cybermen working together? Or is this more post T’floox retribution? And the geology thing. Ok. But why? And why collect miniature seismologists? What were they going to do vs Daleks?
Positives… the past incarnations, and the companions saving the Doctor, is suitably valedictory. I liked the support group, even Mel.
1916 obviously only happens to get Boney M played; nice Cyber/Dalek side-eye!
Thasmin is written well. But it’s not quite the heart of the story and it should be. The Doctor should express regret that she can’t remain for Yaz. She might even say ‘I might be a man!’ No it’s never going to happen.
You could say that part is just deliberately underwritten. The audience knows it’s there.
Interesting that the gold tooth doesn’t feature until The Giggle.
Chib’s best season ender. Is it better than even the rather meh Next Doctor? Or as agreeably bonkers as End of Time? It’s not.
31 October 2025 at 14:04 #78278Anyone got the low down on Tony Jordan? Obviously there was someone of the same name involved in Life on Mars… not saying there’s necessarily any jockeying for position or strange briefings going on but…
Also… Piers Wenger took over from Ben Stephenson a year after he left in 2015. Stephenson got a lot of flack from the right wing press in what you might call the early phases of the ‘culture wars.’ Now, you know my theories about Moff being nobbled, continuity trashed and Chib hamstrung (not sure what practical difference that made)… but then it was this guy who presumably appointed RTD.
Still that one xmas special does rather stick out, throbbing rather. Surely this other streaming network must be relevant? And the Sea Devil thing.
Yes, I can see Russ taking the fall for this, but if as we think, many of the oddities of 24/25 were down to Disney, he should be given the chance to resolve them. I’ll be desperately disappointed if the Susan/VR arc is ditched or there’s a rushed version of the Bille/David conundrum. Really looking forward to Billiedoc.
Non fans think the show is ridiculous anyway; do you want to risk another showrunner who will trash continuity?
30 October 2025 at 20:40 #78275@iskrat
Well you SAY that. I think three 2,000 word essays are required on each of the show’s many dubious but variedvincarnations. Then… and only then… may you buy me a pint.30 October 2025 at 18:09 #78273Oo r yer oo r yer oor yer oo r yer?
c’along iskrat! You turn up unannounced and disturb my good friend’s generally colonial rest! 4 would call that rude.
Merely a Culture War Bot I suspect. There IS no one out there…
If anyone’s fault it’s The Corp but they’ve only been played like us all. Though they inflicted Chib on us…
How to name and shame bots?
Sorry, I react to meta and there’s more gammon there than the entire world’s nonkosher agrarian economy could muster. iskrat may be as fragrant and charming as Miss Piggy, but I doubt it.
What do we do?
Transmission from 4 out.
30 October 2025 at 10:58 #78271@translatorcircuit @dentarthurdent
Happy that we have a show. Quite happy that misinformation stirred up all the trolls and bots. Not that it had that much effect on the ‘where’s the bloke luv?’ brigade.
It IS a long gap. Just realised that 2026 is not just the anniversary of Deadly Assassin and Ultimate Foe but of the first regeneration… I hope that’s NOT significant for Billie. Maybe the DA/UF link was a bit obvious. But I obviously hoped there might be a bit more coming next year (and, if you hadn’t guessed, I got quite excited for a moment).
Goblins, babies, singing and dancing, taking the Stupid Sutekh dog for a walk… see I don’t mind all that (that much) so long as there’s a reason: an arc, if you like. The Mavity Thing. Also, eps 3-6 (2024) & 2-7 (2025) were good. I really can’t fathom some of the criticism.
But obviously the elements that people didn’t like were there because of Disney. And they were there because of Whovian Kidultism; ‘Where are the Daleks?’ is and always will be irrelevant. So, with Disney gone, will the Mavity Arc continue? If the Xmas special is not going to be RTD’s swansong, you’d think he would have to resolve it.
BUT the Corp will continue to struggle to fund the program. They must realise their earlier creative interference AND The Disney experiment were shocking errors, but they are still under pressure so the can has just been kicked down the road; the gammon trolls and culture war bots have dug in now. Like any bunch of populist chancers, they only have to win once and we, the fans, lose the show, whether it nominally continues in some form or not.
29 October 2025 at 12:17 #78266Chris Boucher… long time since I’ve seen Blake’s Seven, so I shouldn’t really comment… the dystopian background was refreshing but ‘we’ve found an amazing derelict spaceship’ was dumb.
Chris’ contribution to Who is ‘Face of Evil’ which introduced Leela, ‘Robots of Death,’ exhibiting a Mary Poppins level of perfection, and lastly ‘Image of Fendahl’ which with Fang Rock and Sunmakers (both edited by Holmes) rescued a rather dodgy 1st Graham Williams season.
Watched Face and Robots so far: Face does plug the Trekky ‘crazy computer’ trope with the twist that The Doctor is to blame for said cyber insanity. Leela is a revelation and not simply her hunting leathers, actually well written by Boucher and Holmes who was also obviously eager to write for a companion worth the effort. But yes there are more than one lingering shot of the expanse of Louise’s thigh. There also seem to be some obvious cuts for violence. Mary Whitehouse was on the warpath.
Tom, of course, thought he could do it all without a companion. No exposition. Holmes disagreed, so Tom was a bit petulant with Louise at first, but the dynamic is much better than her costume would suggest.
So, crazy computer has separated the landing party of a colony ship from the onboard technical staff, to reflect it’s own broken programming, though ostensibly to breed a super race. Unfortunately the alpha landing party seem likely to eat the feeble omega IT crowd, and the only female in evidence is Leela, who they want to be their leader (and presumably principle incubator) She doesn’t fancy it and dashes into the Tardis.
Face is a lot of fun but pales in comparison to Robots. This is fantastic in terms of science, design, dialogue and acting: Ark in Space, Pyramids of Mars, City of Death standard… or better.
Quibbles… the villain appears to be a loon. Pity we never discover Taren Capel’s rationale: it wouldn’t have taken many lines to make him appear as sane as… ooh Elon Musk. Taren Capel starts a revolution on a piece of heavy duty plant. Musk buys a social media platform. Maybe it made more sense to gloss it all over in the mid 70’s.
And a shout out to Azimov’s The Naked Sun! Respect!
Fendahl next.
29 October 2025 at 08:08 #78265@dentarthurdent @camdudetenger2018 @translatorcircuit @whohar
major points
1. BP… short term fix? Then why the bi generation? And how did Ecclestone know? It was coming.
2. Did the BBC NEED a streaming partner in the first place? I’ve theorised it was a long term ambition… starting 2015. Maybe they now realise they c*cked up. Or they hope the show will literally just go away. But they’ve just had a big review of their goals which seemed to say ‘keep on keeping on.’
Maybe there’s still someone else out there saying ‘show us your special moves!’ Apple can make Severance…
3. RTD shot his bolt? He must be able to say ‘I need a longer season to make it work.’ I would hope he’s won the creative decisions battle: no more griping about continuity or Cartmel 2.0. BUT the Disney era does by definition look like a fail; they were either going to renew or not. Built in redundancy.
4. Who else? Chib got the gig on the back of… frankly dull as ditch water Broadchurch. No surprise how that turned out. The old guard: Gatiss and Whithouse/Matthieson must still be dabbing their fingers with Savlon.
Who out there could really shake it up? Don’t have to be a fan. You wanted bonkers…
David Tennant/Michael Sheen?? Jed Mercurio?? Phoebe Waller Bridge?? Ben Stiller???
28 October 2025 at 18:38 #78259Yeah. Obvs I (faintly) hoped they’d banked some extra stuff for something sooner… or that there might be some anniversary for 2026. Just my 27-28 and 30-31 season theory left. 26 would be better for DA & UF anniversaries. But the actual dates might work for 31.
Yes, McGann, Gibson, Ford, Shearman and Purves had been roped in to big it up.
28 October 2025 at 16:06 #78257OK. A similar gap to that between Hell Bent and Mysterio. Without Husbands. Better than an inbox full of trolls. Maybe we’ll get a proper 12 ep season to follow!
Homer: ‘Maybe there’ll be ice-cream!’
28 October 2025 at 10:54 #78255Also… last thoughts… wishful thinking… Carol Ann Ford’s description of these unused scenes… do you think there’s any chance at all another episode was recorded back to back with ‘Reality War’?
28 October 2025 at 09:37 #78254Just started this… the fateful figures ‘1hr 28 mins’ flashed up. Ooh, I know I said late Chib was a bit of an improvement but that’s a tall order. About 1/2 hr in at the mo.
Also reviewing the work of the mighty Chris Boucher. It is much easier.
28 October 2025 at 09:16 #78253Does the apparent negativity from Shearman, Purves, Gibson & Ford indicate something’s about to be announced…? I suspect so.
If Carol Ann Ford is harking back to unseen clips from Reality War, and Gibson grousing about spoilers, while Shearman and Purves make… uncharacteristically unclassy comment, is this actually the trolls being baited?So yes… I’ll be a bit disappointed if we don’t hear something shortly.
27 October 2025 at 14:26 #78247Sorry, the 40th anniversary of UF, and 50th anniversary of DA, is NEXT year of course. Maybe we’re gonna be inundated with rumour and bitchin for the whole of the coming year.
Though 29th Nov and 6th Dec are Sundays. If they did feel up to springing a pre xmas short season.
Ruby Sunday anyone?
27 October 2025 at 13:17 #78246I forgot about Shrewsbury… that’s off the beaten track. The rest are in ‘far-back brokerland’: all well attended provincial theatres. I only mentioned Woking to further possible Dorks vs Wokes humour. Though Woking also has a nice theatre.
But they are real shows. So yes, lots of coincidences happening. Now it’s the National Association of Anti Been Fulminators being played.
My guess is an announcement on Oct 30th, Nov 6th, 13th or 20th (50th anniversary of Deadly Assassin… I just watched it, matrix based), Nov 23rd (the big anniversary), the 29th or Dec 6th (40th anniversary of Ultimate Foe… also matrix based)
Chew on that!
26 October 2025 at 22:01 #78244@dentarthurdent @blenkinsopthebrave @whohar @janetteb
The Christmas Carol tour of southern Britain is real! Both Bakers & Peter ‘kid show’ Purves. But I’m sure none of them object to plugging their show…
But both the Shearman and Ford stories… and Millie Gibson too? Is this all actually the ultimate tease?
Bear with me… some bonkers theorising: two more two season RTD batches coming. One ends on the 65th anniversary of the show: 23rd is a Thursday, been done before. The next will end on December 6th 2031… a Saturday… the anniversary of The Ultimate Foe.
Timelords on Trial?
26 October 2025 at 18:20 #78243re Dorking… the place name is ancient and distinctive, indicating the Anglo Saxon settlement of Dork’s people which, as I have explained to my daughter on Wimbledon Station, should not be confused with the place of Woke’s people, or you will find yourself on the wrong train.
26 October 2025 at 17:57 #78242@blenkinsopthebrave @whohar @dentarthurdent @janetteb
Welcome back!
This is one of several links to the story
https://cultbox.co.uk/general/carole-ann-ford-describes-unused-doctor-who-finale-scene
all these seem to come with their own interpretations.
I just note there seems to be a lot of activity. Presaging an announcement perhaps?
24 October 2025 at 07:54 #78239@dentarthurdent @whohar @janetteb
The Star (UK) has been trashing credulity whilst exhibiting female anatomy since 1978.
Paul McGann had a go at Tennant as well recently.
I suppose we need the War Between Land And Sea before we can really judge what’s happening. Is there a delay there… any news?
23 October 2025 at 20:53 #78236@dentarthurdent @janetteb @janetteb
I think we’re in agreement! But this WAS in The Radio Times… which may be nominally independent of The BBC but I haven’t really absorbed that erm fact (ie I don’t believe it).
The Daily Star is an actual… comic! Um… Red Top. I thought of looking up ridiculous headlines created by them (celebrities eating hamsters, Dorniers on the Moon, that kind of thing) but it turned out that was another bunch of lying hacks. The only thing you might know is the lettuce vs Liz Truss feature.
Unfortunately, we don’t know where The Corp will be in five years time, let alone ten. I’m afraid DW has been sceduled for offloading if not demolition since 2014 and The Corp are finding it a torturous process.
People who can only name Baker T or Tennant, or haven’t watched the show since Leela followed on from the football results, are annoying. I wonder how many of them there really are.
23 October 2025 at 08:09 #78234On the face of it, it’s SO ridiculous, you might think it’s noise or a wind up.
Then you remember: Greenland, ‘Dictator’ Zelensky, Gaza Vegas On Med… Piers Morgan on BBC Breakfast explaining why everyone who disagrees with him is s fascist. Cheers Piers, the scales have well and truly fallen from my eyes.
22 October 2025 at 18:02 #78230So now Peter Purves is at it!
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-peter-purves-modern-series-newsupdate/
Is this the narrative? Is someone seeding the narrative? First a guy who wrote one (rather good) canon story and moonlighted on some other bits and pieces, now a companion from the distant past who ‘no longer watches the show.’ How long has that been, Peter?
Is it that there’s no such thing as bad publicity? Is someone dressing ‘the gammon’ to keep controversy going? Or is this briefing against the show?18 October 2025 at 20:58 #78228Would like to know how Star Beast was chosen as an intro to the Mouse era… but, we’ll probably never know. It entertained enormously, almost effortlessly, in a manner Chib could only ever dream. What I shall do is watch the transition from Chib back to Russ together I think…
1. there must have been some Russ input into Chib’s swansong. Was there a clue there all along. Not just what one day must be Max’s tooth.
2. Also the new arc was in gestation… The Boss is still out there in… Reality War was it? So, the arc STARTS with 14… in PotDoctor. Get my drift?
Also this late Chib stuff is actually not anywhere as mortifying as series 11&12. Not remotely any good, but even the maligned t’floox had a… demented sense of purpose. I’m not sure the old chain of commands apply any more but, in Classic terms, what Chib and his frankly inexperienced writers probably needed was very very strong script editor. The Lord God Robert Holmes ruffled some hack feathers. Do they still exist?
So, I shall look at this… and the first Ruby Sunday ep as part of my pre Xmas binge. And try to join the dots.
But first I look at superior writers. Done Bailey; ignore the realisation of the monsters, he is VERY good. Boucher next, then the rest of Fisher and late Holmes… in the new year; even The Two Doctors and The Shii… sorry… Mysterious Planet.
17 October 2025 at 08:28 #78226continuity… may well alienate more new fans than it attracts. But it is a 60+ year show; 50 years active. It’s more of a question of what you do with it: Cartmel wanted it to be less ‘roll out a classic monster’ and more about The Doctor himself: man of mystery revealed, not mad man in a box, that phrase itself being Moff’s deflection of the question.
I don’t buy the ‘14 + 16 are accidents caused by Gatwa being noncommittal superstar’ theory. If they have said something like that it’s because ‘they’ don’t want to reveal… whatever it is.
So, a bunch of hacks have been chucked off the gravy train for a few months. More interested in when and what The Corp is actually doing… cos continuity is a big problem for them too: ‘but we don’t want you to DO that! When did it ever make sense anyway?’
The holy grail of lost shows must be Fury from the Deep or Evil of The Daleks. Fingers crossed.
16 October 2025 at 15:57 #78223Hope I’ve done this right:
Shearman wants to write more books/audio/big finish?? Cos he didn’t get another gig on the actual show.
Does someone actually know something?? Has Billie said anything?
It’s Billie vs David again. Everyone kind of knows what that means.
Or the show dies! I say again is this what one hit wonder Shearman is chewing? Moff says it was a total shock. So how did Ecclestone know? He knew. Moff knows.
Just a question of when. I say again. Is Russ banking footage? Just in case.
16 October 2025 at 13:56 #78222@dentarthurdent
Yes, Inferno, Caves of Androzani, Fires of Pompei… magma has Who-form.Perhaps it’s doctor evil/panicked hero hyperbole. You only need a certain amount of flooding/volcanic activity to wipe us out, but never knowingly undersell it.
16 October 2025 at 09:24 #78219@whohar @dentarthurdent @janetteb
Time paradoxes and how to avoid them.
Timelords are time sensitive… Girl who Died… ‘ripples not tidal waves.’ Obviously no one is going for the abandoned arc/plot seeding theory… but the implication is, this IS a tidal wave and The Doctor knows it. Therefor he’s there because the Tardis done it. Malfunctioning man in malfunctioning blue box. Talk to Jamie.
Also The Doctor CAN observe history and then change it… see Pyramids of Mars. Also, ‘we change history all the time.’ Not all history changes generate paradox. Timo wimo.
But what about Let’s Kill Hitler? The Tesselector is essentially Bad Testimony. Are you going to extract my memories? No just torture you; you were going to die anyway. That’s not an evil plan at all. Or maybe a bit. But, does that mean River (and Rory) actually SAVED Hitler in ‘38? Maybe someone else was due to assassinate him on the same day. In other words, between them and Hitler’s cupboard, they caused at least THAT version of WWII. Not saying it wasn’t too late for some kind of mechanised bust up.
Blinovitch… used once only (?) in a story written in a hurry by Grimwade I think, and prior to Cartmel, so he maybe had more scope for invention. Bit duff.
The Trial of a Timlord is rife with paradox: in Vervoids, The Doctor is charged with a genocide he hasn’t yet committed.
Father’s Day: not my favourite ep, but Russ must have been happy. The Doctor tests crossing timelines essentially. Also Big Bang: I’m sure The Doctor in the Fez got very paradoxy (don’t ask me what exactly) but then it was a collapsing Universe. Well, it’s all going to have to come down anyway.
Sound of Drums: the Tardis BECOMES a paradox machine. Also why exactly was Yana doing what he did at the end of all things (again)? Russ JUST about got away with that.
The Tardis Done it… ‘I took you where you needed to be’ or the timelines are out of sync or something like that.
So either Sally only caught up with The Doctor in time for him to go to Wester Drumlins without having read the file. After that he CAN’T interfere because he hasn’t got a Tardis.
Or The Doctor realises he HAS to do it… to avoid a paradox? Or so that we have dvds??? Perhaps he reads the file, smacks his head, and says ‘that’s why the Tardis plays dvds rather than firesticks a streaming service!’ The dodgy implication being is he’s happy to risk Martha; he can’t be sure they’ll both end up 69. Maybe he could rescue her once he gets the Tardis back. Knowing what I know about his relationship with Martha, I’m not sure.
Or The Tardis done it? Presumably so we have dvds. The cloister bell doesn’t sound for someone like Martha.
15 October 2025 at 12:29 #78214fantasy science. Yes, it’s part of the show but they flaunt the worst possible examples so often you have to wonder if we’re being baited.
Flooding the entire Earth didn’t ought to be possible. Perhaps The Chief Sea Devil meant he would flood low lying continental margins. That might well cause the collapse of human civilisation. Couldn’t The Doctor babble about that?
Otherwise, the known mechanisms of sea level rise would be:
global warming and melting ice caps
the early phase of continental breakup. (I think) abyssal plains containing water get subducted while new constructive margins displace water.
new water transported to the earth by comets.
geomagnetism? It happens. The real problem might be solar radiation. Perhaps THATS what Sea Devil wants… to fry everything on land to a crisp?
It’s all fantastic. The energy needed to raise sea levels rapidly would be immense, marmalise the surface of the earth and turn the ocean toxic. But this is certainly interesting stuff, like the little ice age, or Carrington events, or Moon formation theories. We have science thank you; no space bats needed here.
15 October 2025 at 12:21 #78213fantasy science. They flaunt it so often you have to wonder if we’re being baited.
Flooding the entire Earth didn’t ought to be possible. Perhaps The Sea Devils meant he would flood low lying continental margins. That might well cause the collapse of human civilisation. Couldn’t The Doctor babble about that?
Otherwise, the known mechanisms of sea level rise would be:
global warming and melting ice caps
the early phase of continental breakup. (I think) abyssal plains containing water get subducted while new constructive margins displace water.
new water transported to the earth by comets.
geomagnetism? It happens. The problem might be solar radiation. Perhaps THATS what Sea Devil wants… to fry everything on land to a crisp.
It’s all fantastic. The energy needed to raise sea levels rapidly would be immense and marmalise the surface of the earth. But it’s interesting stuff, like the little ice age, or Carrington events, or Moon formation theories. We have science; no space bats needed here thank you.
14 October 2025 at 22:50 #78209Legend of The Sea Devils
LotSD is not Eve but it’s not most of the dross from series 11 & 12 neither. Which probably means it’s there with T’floox, neither boring us to death nor making very much sense.
There is a jewel which the Sea Devils need, so they can wipe out the land crawlers, somehow. And they get it during some running around and exposition with added time travel. Then there’s a peculiar little sequence reminiscent of Bedknobs and Broomsticks, bottom of the sea, in which the Doctor seems to flirt like mad and Yaz doesn’t believe her.
The problem is not that this happens, but that it happens in the middle of the action. Dan and a kid are menaced by a Pirate Queen while a submarine version of a sand worm makes like Drogon complete with gnashers but no flames. But you never see much of it in case someone thinks hmm ‘Myrka.’ Now if this was series 11 & 12, the Chucklegenerations would go meh meh meh and I would probably switch off. But that wouldn’t be fair on this particular story, though I think no more of this story than much of series 11 &12. What I mean is, its not fair on the romance either; as baity as it might seem, that might yet be quite affecting.
But no, the Doctor has psychobabble to babble. And DOES she! 10 could sarky cockerny slouch, and 11 rapid fogey, 12 turned on Tucker minus Jefferty before closing the trap. Whitcoc just patter patter patters. She needs more mardy bum. Chib obviously decided that was too 12, not really The Doctor, not what The Mail could take from a woman.
That aside, this is where the bad science comes home. The head Sea Devil is going to flood the earth, but flipping the magnetic poles won’t do that. Unfortunately the theme established earlier was magnetism, sorry didn’t I say? Now, if they’d created the Siberian or Deccan traps, a volcanic province to roast the earth with maybe a phase of rapid seafloor spreading, that might be reasonably effective. And poison the oceans, too. See, this is Kill the Moon/Forest of the Night territory, fantasy science riffing on important stuff. Another epic miss.
Never mind, everyone then gets a bit shivvy, including Dan, who rocks the glowing blue plague scimitar and then blames his mum. But all is resolved, I think. Except Dan realises he is def the gooseberry and puts out an emergency call to Scouseland even as The Doctor, opening her heart to Yaz, virtually breaks into Bob Dylan’s One of Us Must Know (Sooner or Later).
But the postscript IS affecting. Because The Doctor mentions her wife, but it’s obvious she’s thinking of Bill and Clara, girls SHE could not save, though they were saved, but not for HER. The Doctor’s pain is genuinely pathetic. Actually very good acting.
Meanwhile, I am sat in Larry Nightingale’s video shop, staring at the screen shouting not ‘go to the police!’ but ‘give her a snog!’
14 October 2025 at 17:39 #78208An Android Princess became Romana 2.
Lots of reoccurring thesps in less prominent but varied roles…
The War Lord and Solon
Poule and Mawdryn
David Troughton got in a few times.
As for 12’s face… it’s specifically to do with Ashildr, who he recognises, and acts so weirdly around that Clara calls him out. And in the middle of a ridiculous set of coincidences too! Not least being that there’s no way he should know he has to save Ashildr… he certainly didn’t want to be around Vikings.
Perhaps the Time Lords tipped him off when they supposedly gave him a new set of regenerations, which turned out to be a red herring, so what was it came through the crack of doom? Apart from Dalek destroying glowy stuff.
14 October 2025 at 17:14 #78207Flustered hormonal Sally got a telephone call from older Billy, right after she left younger Billy safely next to the Tardis in the police pound, and some angels. I think.
Not sure how the angels then, and only then, moved the Tardis back to Wester Drumlins. Or why. I think Sally had the key. As we now know (but didn’t then) angels are multi skilled.
As I say, painting and decorating: easy.
14 October 2025 at 08:30 #78204That sequence is good. I would insert…
Gatwa’s decision to leave was because of an unhappy combination of streaming partner demands and show runner hubris. Also lack of time for writing because in-show development had been trashed by the previous showrunner’s wilful vandalism, which was forced the BBC’s need to take control of show content, in turn caused by a combination of criticism of The Corporation AND the prior showrunner’s hubris.
Placeholder or not, Gatwa stays or not, BP was probably inevitable once the bigeneration was introduced.
13 October 2025 at 23:04 #78201second thoughts…
The sun shut off can only happen BECAUSE The Doctor is separated from The Tardis.
So. Either The Doctor didn’t read the file. Maybe it happened straight after the Lizard and long bow thing. Or… The Doctor had to risk the shut off to prevent the paradox. Or… the Tardis stitched him up for the same reason. That’s got to be worth a tinkle of The Cloister Bell.
On the other hand ‘Duck! Sally Sparrow’ is just boring old painting and decorating.
13 October 2025 at 21:05 #78199‘Mind as the monster.’
Better than a man in a rubber suit. Or actors with facial prosthetics, my problem with Stat Trek, though The Founders were well realised. And now quite scary. ‘Solids’ are chaotic and dangerous. Democracy is chaotic and dangerous (to whom?)
So, the reason why The Mara were so good. Badly realised in the early 80’s. I wouldn’t like Russ to break them. Sutekh was originally a mind monster, and so was the Fendahleen. Perhaps too The Fury from the Deep. Others?
The other mind monsters are of course human. Caves of Androzani has both Morgus and Jek but I struggle to think of many effectively rendered human Who villains. Luke Rattigan from (Sontaran stratagem) and Van Statten (Dalek) are earily prophetic it would seem. But before them I can’t think of many incredibly wealthy death wishers accept Harrison Chase from the Seeds of Doom.
But who else wouldn’t you dismiss as an idiot lacking real motivation. You might say Stahlman from Inferno (now) echoes Farage or Rees Mogg (let’s all poison our ground water) but therein is the issue with the story: his behaviour is so irrational he HAS to become a Primord. Otherwise, the target of Classic Who is more normally bureaucracy or blundering overpromotion.
Even the Master as psychopath, rather than simply devoted to The Doctor’s demise, seems problematic for some fans and John Sim gets the blame. I loved the performance. A great mind monster you would think but then was Taren Capel (Robots of Death)?
13 October 2025 at 20:28 #78198I am teasing.
‘Reusing’ faces, maybe it’s a phase Time Lords go through. 12 postulated there was a reason. Doesn’t really retcon for 6. 14 seems to indicate there is something wrong with that regeneration and 10: the metacrisis ‘human’ doc, a bit feisty, fond of the face in the mirror… though there’s always room for a small girl with a red balloon. The face that Rose loved.
So, assuming the show does come back, does that mean we know where it’s going. If I were Russ I’d be banking some footage of key people.
13 October 2025 at 20:13 #78197Blink, The Doctor’s timeline.
Sally Sparrow gives The Doctor the Wester Drumlin file.
He either doesn’t read the file,
Or he does read it but goes to Wester Drumlins anyway to avoid a time paradox,
Or does, but goes there because the sun might (probably) get shut off,
Or does or doesn’t but The Tardis takes him and Martha there anyway, though he’s unaware, to avoid a time paradox, a sun shut off and maybe kick-start the digital media industry.
But, in any case, he doesn’t leave the file behind in the Tardis either, otherwise the sun (probably) gets shut off.
He gets scragged by an angel at Wester Drumlins and ends up in 69. Fortunately so does Martha, and by the same Angel, not the one who later got Kathy, who goes to 1920.
Then Billy Shipman also gets scragged by the 69 angel. He meets The Doctor and they develop digital recording media which will be compatible with Tardis console, and use Sally’s notes to film their ‘interview’ with Sally.
They don’t travel to find one of the other iterations of The Doctor in 1969, so that they avoid a time paradox, help Sally, and keep the sun going etc.
The Doctor tells Billy he has to stay behind in 69 to avoid a time paradox, but we suspect The Doctor also gave him digital media patents to make him rather richer than a policeman but, more importantly, so he’ll put Easter eggs on the dvds from Larry’s list of Sally’s films, probably in around 2000.
So, The Doctor and Martha retrieve The Tardis and carefully investigate disappearances at Wester Drumlins. Using what they learn, they go to some time in the past which seems to be pre angel, and become painters and decorators, leaving the message which prevents the angels from braining Sally, so the sun (probably) doesn’t get turned off and we used dvds for a while, after VHS but before streaming came along.
Simple (?)
13 October 2025 at 09:15 #78191@dentarthurdent @whohar @janetteb
RTD2: we seem to be mid arc. Lots unresolved. The Disney money flushed away. The Susan tease…
Would Russ rather have Gatwa still in harness? Yes, the adjustment to Reality War seemed rushed. But Russ effectively shrugged his shoulders at Ecclestone’s departure. And even the most generous Gatwa fans must admit his tenure was… uneven. Some sparkly gems, some tumbleweed moments.
I have still no objection to Billie whatsoever. I don’t really understand the furore… beyond understandable questions about direction, The Disney brief, and the quite unsatisfactory season ends (though Reality war was poignant). It’s unfair to say the least to dump all that on Billie Piper. And oh she’s older! Tut, the shelf life of the female tv personality…
So, Billie may or may not be a rushed replacement. Almost certainly not. Ecclestone’s own statement re her appearance may not be a rec so much as a nod. He knew. She was on the way sooner or later, the arc mapped out long since, not least because 14 is still slumming it in Chiswick, the implications of the bigeneration not yet resolved.
And you know my thoughts about all things V including Virtual Reality.
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