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I posted this in SitL thread the other day, but it’s worth repeating here, re Moff’s long term planning –

This is a link to an interview with Moffat, from Aug 2011, where he says the intention for Amy and Rory to be River’s parents was there at least from the start of Amy’s character.

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@nick

I doubt the casual viewer who is only dipping in and out would get many details of anything! They could still watch and enjoy the show but it would be on a different level of understanding. But that applies to any long-running series.

I don’t think it’s necessary to watch all the additional material to “get” the characters, but it does add to the fun. And as  @bluesqueakpip said Moffat recognises that SciFi fans in particular view things in different ways and formats these days. The interwebs etc suit Dr Who v well.

But you’re also right, that for Dr Who to remain a flagship for the BBC then it has to also succeed in its broadcast timeslot.

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Agree very much with @jimthefish and @phaseshift on the Ponds. They worked for me.  The outwardly feisty Amy who is so much stronger for having Rory at her back. I think they are both misunderstood sometimes.  Because Rory is happy just being around Amy it’s assumed he’s weak, when in fact he’s just been very clear and comfortable about who he is, from an early age. But try pushing him in a direction he doesn’t want to go, or threaten Amy/his family and watch him burn!

Amy isn’t always meant to be likeable on screen, her first reaction is often defensive, but her heart’s in the right place. she’s a “nippy sweetie” as we say in these parts 😉

And the whole experiment of a companion actually growing up with the Dr in her life (meta references anyone?), and how their releationship changes as she grows up and they get to know each other. The “pounce” made sense to me – she’s a gawky youngster, from a small village and she’s just re-met the mysterious man (who appears to be only a little older than she is) with the blue box that can take you anywhere/when that everyone told her wasn’t real!   It’s enough to turn any teenager’s head. But the point of it was that it wasn’t reciprocated and she grows out of it, and into real life instead.

But sometimes with Dr Who you just don’t like or connect with the companions – eg I strongly disliked Mel and wasn’t daft on Peri – but there are other poeple who do rate them.

This video probably won’t change anyone’s mind about the Ponds, but I came across it while looking for Tim Minchin’s Proms vid for another thread, and it’s a lovely tribute to Rory

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Thanks for the Proms links @wolfweed Nice to see the visuals

On subject of the Proms – this is from the Comedy Proms from 2011 – with Tim Minchin, orchestra, keytar and Prince Charles mask. Great stuff! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiFaDIgKVI4

PS Feel free to move this to music thread if you think it’s more appropriate there

 

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@Shazzbot Further thoughts re your comment about River’s empathy for the Dr’s future pain – she also realises how much their relationship is built on this (his first/her last) meeting – and on the spoilers she lets slip. For me a key part of River is her underlying insecurity, that little doubt about whether the Dr really loves her as much as she loves him, which mostly she covers over with a mask of confidence. (Which leads in neatly to their parting scenes in NotD)

Re Moffat tropes – 1 more occurred to me – Killing off a future major character in their first appearance!

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@craig @miapatrick

Sorry, but that clip was just great!!

Amazing how many different shades of meaning he can get in to 1 word… Sorry!! 😉

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Ah, great Confidential (RIP DW Confidential), thanks for posting.

<goes off to get more tissues… really watery eyes for some reason> 😥

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Thanks @wolfweed for 51st century spots. Apologies for missing it, but  I’m working backwords on the SM threads (forwards on Talons). Late with the homework and all that. Feeble excuse of RL cutting in 😉

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@phaseshift @wolfweed

Just to say thanks for the links, the pics and the commentary.

And well done to Mrs P – it kept reminding me of something but couldn’t place it.

LOL @wolfweed‘s  Maybe the Neptune rip is a clue…  Never rule anything out, my friend!

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@Shazzbot

@phaseshift did:

a Cyborg (human adopting machine parts becomes an intelligent machine adopting human parts) and no more unbelievable. As @craig puts it “technology running on wet-ware”.

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The other notable thing about this story is that again it’s a “small” story, in the classic Who “base under seige” tradition. The threat is to a small number of people, not the end of the universe. Well, there’s the 4022 people trapped in the datacore but as we don’t know them I’m not counting them!

Nice synchronicity in our viewing this week – in the 51st century with  this story and the Talons villain coming from then.

Anything else of the Moff mind to be gleaned from this? (Feel free to add):

– Long term planning – all the refs to Dr/River history/future – I’d forgotten just how much is set up/hinted at here

– Using secrets to try to keep family safe

– The importance of family, esp children, in happiness (both Donna and River are set up with a “perfect” digital family with boy, girl both aged around 7)

– Extreme timey-wimeyness

– Illusory worlds

– Consciousness/soul preserved after body death (possible similarities to the TL matrix)

– Rugpulling (thanks @phaseshift)

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A great episode. Loved it at the time (Mum… what’s an opium den..?!), and for a second last one it fairly zips along (I’ll forgive them the nonsense about forgetting the key). Bennett as Chang, broken physically now as well as mentally, is so convincing, it’s such a subtle performance.

And yes, that 51st century again. I’m not great on technical details like this – anyone know of any other BG stories set in that time?

@phaseshift Thanks a mill for explaining wet-ware so I didn’t have to look stupid by asking what it meant 😉 Mr Sin gets more creepy the more we find out about him.  (Used to guest star in my nightmares sometimes!) Small but highly malevolent. And very difficult to kill.

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@Shazzbot

Snap – sorry for duplicating a lot of what you said; posting synchronicity 🙂

Her empathy for his [future] pain is extraordinary

Agree very much with that line. As you said, we don’t even know River at this point and the audience goes through the same journey as the Dr in getting to know her; her self sacrifice ensures that we know this is a more than averagely brave person (ie definitely someone who could be worthy of the Dr). Her voiceover also confirms her depth of knowledge about the Dr, and her influence on him is already seen in the finger snap.

@phaseshift and @htpbdet were discussing the audio recordings of The Web of Fear on another thread and remarking on how much Troughton can convey through voice alone – I think both Tennant and Kingston also have this ability and clearly demonstrate it here.

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@phaseshift

I like your comments re rugpulling. (Add the 50th to that list as well!)

And yes, some beautiful details like Donna’s perfect man existing and she just misses him.

The leads are all in great form, and interact well with each other. Tennant in particular is great with just a look or inflection.

Favourite lines in a script full of them –

Donna “Is “I’m alright” special Time Lord code for “I’m really not all right at all?” 😆

Dr: Time can be rewritten

River: Don’t you dare! Not those times. not one line

😥

Dr: “She folded them into her dreams and kept them safe…” (followed by the Dr comparing his own mind to one with 4,000 different people in it).

Further to River’s attitude to being uploaded – she doesn’t look too thrilled when it’s being explained what happened to Cal. On the other hand she doess know where she is, and she does have the diary with her.

The motivation for keeping secrets is “family” (to keep them safe).

And I just love the last scene, with no words. So much packed into a simple click of his fingers.

 

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Ah, that was great!

@Shazzbot – nice callout on the opposite to blink ref. Except in this case it’s the thing that’s going to keep her trapped (although keep her kids safe). Neat. Donna’s agony at not wanting to believe everything she thinks is true, isn’t.

I jumped off the sofa when Cal zapped her Dad. And just as that’s sinking in, she zaps Dr Moon as well, who up to that point, I suspected of controlling everything. And the physical books as the source of the Vashta Nerada – that’s devious. I’ll never pick up a book again, LOL.

Anyone else think of Clara when Ms Evangelista turned up as veiled Victorian woman? (I was slightly disappointed when she lifted her veil – I’d’ve been squeeing all over the place if we’d never seen her face).

And that ending! Happy ever after from a child viewer’s POV, but decidedly with an edge for the adult one. Especially when we know River’s future/past (this gets complicated!) history with the Dr. It seems so much the opposite of what she’d wish for herself; but maybe even she would think it’s better than being completely dead.

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Yay! Finally caught up with the SM-viewing run (great idea, though I say it myself 😳 )

I’m loving re-viewing these as I haven’t watched any of 10’s run since Smith started. And he really is my AG Doctor (sorry 😉 )

First of all I think SitL/FotD is a stonewall classic story. It’s VERY scary (“not in every shadow. But ANY shadow” (damn you Moffatt!!)), Tennant and Tate are brilliant together – they mirror each other in several scenes, the dialogue between them is sharp. They have a great (completely platonic) chemistry. Like others I originally had reservations about Tate and Donna’s character, but she won me over unreservedly)

Interesting thoughts above re Moff’s intentions for long term development esp of River. Even if he didn’t know he’d be showrunner, he’d still expect to be a regular writer, so even if he didn’t have all the details of River’s arc planned out, he probably at least had “snapshots” in mind, particularly Time of Angels/Flesh & Stone.  It’s also likely that “Wreck of the Byzantium” is one of those phrases like “fall of the 11th at Trenzalore” that he says he comes up with because they sound great, and which grow into more fully formed ideas later.

This is a link to an interview with Moffat, from Aug 2011, where he says the intention for Amy and Rory to be River’s parents was there at least from the start of Amy’s character. There’s a link at the end of it to an interesting little  interview with Matt (also from 2011), talking about his Dr’s journey and death.

I do find it interesting how much of River’s essential “Riverness” is already present in SitL. She’s not as flirty as we see her later, but then this is a much older River than we’ve seen to date (except in NotD).  I liked her from the first off, maybe slightly biased in that she wasn’t cliched eye-candy. I didn’t necessarily trust her at first, but I liked the character. Kudos to Kingston for nailing the character this early on.

Other than just to say lots of Moffat tropes in this – the scary out of the everyday, “ghosts” ie the last remnants of consciousness being held back in some way after death, “run”, memories, children, 51st century. Not to mention things in past episodes making more sense when you’ve seen the later ones 🙂

And I’m really enjoying the 2-parter pacing. A little bit of padding here and there, but on the whole, nicely textured

 

PS Nice spot on the stairs @chickenelly

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@whisht – Aaaaawwwww  (Not sure if i can survive all the way through them though! 😉 (Love your brother stories btw) G&S rock!

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And since @craig‘s got me started – this is a wee goodnight hug for everyone on this site   The aforementioned John Martyn on absolutely top form blowing Clapton’s cover of May You Never completely out the park. Old Grey Whistle Test had some really special performances. Hadn’t a clue what to do with punk tho 😉

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@craig This Mortal Coil did a great job on it, really made it their own. Loved Liz Fraser’s vocal.  I’d a big thing for Buckley’s music, writing and vocals, first came across him when I was about 16 (friend gave me a 4th generation cassette recording 🙂 ).  And yes, should’ve put a hanky warning on it!

Just for interest (not really any obvious Who connection) this is John Martyn’s version of Buckley’s Solid Air (from 1978 and a fabulous German music programme called Rockpalast). Skip to 1.13 if you want to miss his wee comedy routine changing a string.  Another amazing  vocalist (who, it has to be said lived life to the full as long as he was able!)

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…or you could go the pirate route –

classic Brecht – Pirate Jenny (in honour of Amy as a swashbuckling female pirate), this version by Amanda Palmer  (aka Mrs Gaiman)

or the retro route… I give you Johnny Kidd & the Pirates (from 1960 – great echoey sound and twangy geetar)

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@whisht @Shazzbot

Nice choices (Talking Heads especially good (of course!))

For Curse of the Black Spot you could also chose this of course, talking of Sirens – Song to the Siren (This Mortal Coil) or you could go for the original Tim (father off Jeff) Buckley version…  (Long afloat on shipless oceans…)

And yes, credit to @whisht @phaseshift for their David Byrne pinging earlier in the thread, much enjoyed

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ROFL –

@jimthefish

Piracy on the open seas as a Star Trek cruise goes rogue and openly attacks an innocent Babylon 5 one…

and

@janetteb –

I would hope the cruise organisers are paying their special guests more than they paid the web page designers

Great new avatar btw, looking cool 🙂

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@Shazzbot @bluesqueakpip

Looks like there won’t be much skiving for the actors on the cruise. They’re expected to mix with the punters, including the tourist trips and dinner, and they get to be part of the video that gets made from a script put together in the workshops. Lucky them 😉

Apparently JNT was a regular in the earlier days of it. Now that could’ve been really sleazy.

Am assuming it’s well enough paid as Sylvester is a regular. And PS to Bluesqueakpip’s comment about actors’ fees – in the case of actors who have become associated with a character it also represents the work they did in creating and establishing the character in the first place.

Right, off to rest my eyes, that’s enough retro-websites for now 😎

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@nick Agree. Then again there’s pros and cons to everything, tho the cons (in all senses of the word) seem more pertinent to the BBC’s attitude to  Dr Who.

Now… The Doctor as second hand car dealer – would you buy a used car from him? Matt Smith’s first car up for sale on ebay (proceeds to charity)   (includes his original gaffer tape repair to wing mirror!)  Currently £560, finishes 18 July if anyone needs a young actor’s second hand car 😉 All proceeds to charity.

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@Shazzbot

CI and DR were more on lines of looking for female actors capable of delivering a villain. Unfortunately neither of their DW characters is likely to make a comeback. Blinding her own daughter in an experiment – how much more evil can you get?

The Rani doesn’t chill me as much as Kovarian, so I’d be happy if you stick with her @jimthefish‘s new avatar makes me nervous enough! <thinks – may have to go back to scary angel in self defence, LOL>

(and thanks for pointing out about placing tags, and amending my post to anitpodean members)

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General thoughts on AG companions in particular – most of them meet the Dr when they need to. Yes, the experience of travelling with him changes them, but usually for the better. They find qualities in themselves that they didn’t know they had (applies to BG companions as well). It’s like getting years of life experience packed into a very short time. The discussions Rory and Amy have about it in Power of 3 especially, highlight this – and the fact that the time they spend with the Dr is “real time” for them – they are aging faster than their friends. To travel with the Dr means losing out on “real life”.  At some point short lifespan species members choose to re-engage with their real lives. Like growing up, choosing to become an adult and take on adult responsibilities (lots of Peter Pan refs here).

Even the Dr refers to the effect time travel can have on an individual (in NotD he acknowledges that no one else has travelled anything like as much as he has, that its effects are unknown, but suggests he too has paid a price for it).  It’s an interesting area for thought, and one that didn’t have come up when the programme was younger. It’s bubbled up as a consequence of the show’s longevity.

More detailed thoughts later…

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@Bluesqueakip

That’s a really interesting way of looking at it – RTD as novelist, SM as short story writer.

If we usually see the Doctor from the Companion’s viewpoint, this series has been about seeing the Companions from the Doctor’s viewpoint.

So maybe that’s where dissatisfaction in some quarters creeps in – usually the viewer expects the companions to be their own point of entry, but that’s more difficult when the companions are the story and we’re seeing them as the Dr sees them – as you say, it’s necessarily episodic. Being the Dr seems to be a bit like being in a room with dozens of TVs all on at the same time and choosing  to watch several at once, dipping in and out of some, spending longer with others.

Whether he’s chosen this because he’s a natural short story writer, or whether it’s because he realised that the Doctor basically lives his life as a series of short stories,

I’d say it’s symptomatic of the way each writer sees the world, the way their thought processes naturally work eg some people think visually, some musically/aurally, some think in words etc  Each has limitations and benefits. Yes the Dr lives his life as short stories, but he also has a long narrative

 

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@Shazzbot @phaseshift

Well posted Mr P. I omitted Kovarian in my post earlier as I was still shuddering from remembering these 2 –

Celia Imrie

And Diana Rigg…

Why all these talented actors being so woefully underused…? (or maybe I’m not watching enough TV and missing them?) I always think it’s a shame that really meaty parts for actresses tend to dry up as they hit their 40s (if they’re lucky) – most of them are just starting to get interesting at that age. (Not original thought, but sadly still worth repeating in 2013).

PS I tried to copy and paste the pics (rather than as links). Not sure why it didn’t work, I’ve done it before

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Thanks @janetteb

Sian Philips as Livia still scare me  – chilling performance. IC is being repeated late nights recently and I’ve caught up with a few episodes – amazing cast, and it still holds up well today. In the 70s it was gobsmacking.

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@jimthefish (and @janetteb @whohar @bobbingbird @blenkinsopthebrave)

I remember you saying this (shoddy anniverary) way back in January – around the time they announced the 50th would be in 3D. I said give them the benefit of the doubt. I was wrong. And sadly, I suspect you are on to something when you mention the embarrassment factor to certain of the BBC establishment that their longest running drama series is a “kids” show, and one which has had the temerity to be still successful 8 years after the reboot they probably only gave a year or 2, maybe 5 at most. The damn thing just won’t die (mega meta ref time)!

Just for info – @janetteb (and apologies for being the cause of you overloading the bandwidth, but hey, it was Tennant! )  or any of our other colonial colleagues (who  are strangely quiet at the moment) – I remember seeing that Oz and NZ were planning regular broadcasts in the lead up to November – what’s the anniversary year coverage like where you are? @whohar @bobbingbird @blenkinsopthebrave

Edit – JimtheFish And no, I haven’t read the Marson book either, life seems too short; interesting if it’s hard to get though (BBC bought up all the copies…? :green: )

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@shazzbot (noticed the avatar, not the status 🙂 ) @htpbdet – quick response on the run – re great female baddies –

Diana Rigg and Celia Imrie

2 under our very noses

🙂

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@Shazzbot

<deep bow in honour of your shiny new status and cracking new avatar>

@htpbdet <yikes, am going to disagree with new moderator on my first post!!> You did post something on to S or not to S a while back (unless befuddlement is catching). Hanged if I can find it now though. It went along the lines of while you were very impressed with his acting skills, especially since Clara, you didn’t feel he quite inhabited, or grounded the role, the way eg Troughton or Tennant did, there was still the feeling he was acting, even tho he was doing it extremely well, and was very close to being completely convincing (paraphrased from memory, and apologies if I added Tennant in from personal bias )

And yes, it would be great to get a really twisted female baddie, especially a gorgeous one so they couldn’t blame her badness on her not being a looker, who was effective without using sex to manipulate.  Likewise a strong male hero who, no matter how intelligent he’s supposed to be, isn’t considered to have proven his manliness till he’s battered shit out of his opponent with his fists!   Like the Doctor in fact   Maybe he’s needed on the big screen after all.

All it takes is for white men to be willing to accept a world where women can be effective without relying upon sex.

“white men”? Sorry, if I’m missing a reference here.  I’m quite happy to be multicultural about this!  Good to see there’s still a few good men around though.

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I noticed the WhovianNet book thing the other day but didn’t post for the reasons given.  Seems to be par for the course.

I think the only thing that will make me think more kindly of the BBC re their attitude to Dr Who is if they’ve actually found those mythical lost 90 episodes and screen them every night for a month!  And a dedicated (free!) Dr Who channel. And the only reason they’ve delayed announcing is that they’re making sure the quality’s good throughout and want to give us a nice surprise! Hell, they know we’ll still buy them! Lost Hartnells and Troughtons- are you kidding?!

<comes back out of cloud cuckoo land>

Re book exposes – was Richard Marson’s earlier this year not in that category?

@jimthefish If I was a library or a museum anywhere (maybe except London) I’d be worried at the moment (especially if I’d any spare store rooms 😈 )

Re the Moff, I agree I don’t think diplomacy is one of his strongest skills!

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@jimthefish

well, when Matt was announced the general thinking was ‘who the hell is this little kiddie with his enormous chin?’ I expect the next Doc to be an equally left-field choice…

ROFL  😆 I’m with @bluesqueakpip – they know perfectly well who’s been cast, they’ll announce it shortly before filming starts in Sept and anyone who’s been mentioned already should be treated as so much smokescreen and very unlikely to be the new actor.  I’d be delighted to be surprised at their choice for the reason you mention, JtF.

@Shazzbot Chin – well he refers to it himself – personally I think it’s to keep attention away from his ears (he and Prince Charles could’ve been separated at birth in that department) 😯

Completely left field thought – maybe Matt got his hair cut for Dr Who, not for the film. Not sure where I’m going with this, but my thoughts were rambling along route of Matt playing Eccleston’s 9… Well it’s a lot less frustrating than pondering on his replacement 🙂

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@Shazzbot, yes, near the Excel, but I’m happy to meet wherever suits most, including the dogs (just keep them away from my fez 😉 ) What about you – whereabouts are you staying?  Can’t book my train till after Aug, when the new timetables come out, so a bit of flexibility maybe, but Fri would be best for me.

For drams, pints, whatever people’s personal poisons. Maybe @craig, @bluesqueakpip @juniperfish, being more metropolitan than us can suggest somewhere cool? (Well, not too cool, it’ll be November)

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Yup, sounds about right for a “limited edition”

BBC are doing well out the fans this year, even if the packaging and contents for most do look good quality. Would be nice to see it working the other way at some point. We don’t even get a new series till next summer (Now that wouldn’t be so they can sell more DVD packages this year would it??  No wonder some of us have doubts about the BBC’s long term commitment to the programme. Cynical…?  Me..? I’m Scottish remember – cynicism comes with our daily deep fried Mars bars!)

See the 50th @the Excel is sold out completely now – that’s a LOT of dosh in 2 days (to BBC Worldwide).  Only 1 come up on eBay so far!

But at least we can make our own entertainment in here 🙂

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Thanks @wolfweed  The doc images look good.

And yup, @jimthefish – my thoughts in a nutshell! (I presume that should say “everywhere trying to sell you stuff”, rather than see you stuff…?). Grr. I notice there’s no price on the limited edition DVD set yet, looks nice, but ain’t going to be cheap.

Just came across this, which, while not the same as a limited special edition DVD, is at least free! Tennant’s video diary of his last 2 wks of shooting – aw, bless! (seems to have been a very recent upload, although the actual filming is obv a bit older)

 

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@Shazzbot Assuming you’re not using a mac (in which case I’m stumped), right click with the mouse, on the image, select “save image as” then save as a jpg (or pdf). If you haven’t got jpg opening programme, insert it into a word doc. You can increase size using “view”

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@tardisblue Nice first post, thanks for comments, and welcome. Look forward to reading your future contributions

@htpbdet Thanks also for lovely comments. This is indeed a special space, created and maintained by everyone who participates and feels part of it. And so glad to hear you are feeling more positive and able to look forward to the 50th, and beyond. Look forward to debating with you on Who-things for a long time to come.

<oops – bit early to be in the pub! Especally after the embarrassing slide under the table the other night! 😳 >

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@jimthefish

I’m with @htpbdet on this – we want the next bit 🙂

I like your ginger Dr and punky Susan

(For info, for us short sighted people, right click, save as jpg or pdf, then open and enlarge and it’s fine for size)

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@jimthefish @htpbdet @nick

One person’s padding can be another person’s texture!

JtF, I suspect you’re using “padding” in Talons context slightly mischievously, to provoke some discussion! (You say as much in your post). The chase round the backstage in Talons2 could be counted as padding I think, in classic Who running-about-corridors tradition. But the scenes with Jago, Casey, Litefoot add to the plot, drive up the tension and add a bit of well placed comic relief as well as building their own characters and giving a strong sense of setting and period context to the story. Yes you could amalgamate eg Jago and Litefoot into one character and lose Casey, but the story would be much less rich as a result.

Many people in this story wear masks/disguise. Jago is outwardly confident, swaggering and convivial yet he’s also insecure, aware that his persona is a bluff; his closest human contact seems to be his employee Casey – they have an easy tolerance of each others faults which suggests a long term acquaintance. Litefoot is ostensibly a well to do professional man, the epitome of a succesful Victorian. Yet he too comes across as a solitary figure, slightly out of sync with his place and time. Chang too is not what he first appears, he is far more than the caricature of a mysterious oriental of his stage persona.

Both the real bad guys in Talons wear actual masks, which we have yet to see under, tho the glimpses so far are not promising!

Nick re Amy/Rory – you say you loved them because of their characters and the interplay between them, but could have done without their relationship ups and downs. Yet you wouldn’t know the characters so well if you hadn’t seen those moments. Eg in The Girl Who Waited, their relationship drives the plot – Amy’s anger at having been “abandoned”, her will to survive driven by her memory of Rory, Rory’s devotion regardless of how old she is – is made even more poignant by our previous knowledge of their ups and downs and their own insecurities about how the other one feels.

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@jimthefish @htpbdet @nick

One person’s padding can be another person’s texture!

JtF, I suspect you’re using “padding” in Talons context slightly mischievously, to provoke some discussion! (You say as much in your post).  The chase round the backstage in Talons2 could be counted as padding I think, in classic Who running-about-corridors tradition.  But the scenes with Jago, Casey, Litefoot add to the plot, drive up the tension and add a bit of well placed comic relief as well as building their own characters and giving a strong sense of setting and period context to the story.  Yes you could amalgamate eg Jago and Litefoot into one character and lose Casey, but the story would be much less rich as a result.

Many people in this story wear masks/disguise.  Jago is outwardly confident, swaggering and convivial yet he’s also insecure, aware that his persona is a bluff; his closest human contact seems to be his employee Casey – they have an easy tolerance of each others faults which suggests a long term acquaintance. Litefoot is ostensibly a well to do professional man, the epitome of a succesful Victorian. Yet he too comes across as a solitary figure, slightly out of sync with his place and time. Chang too is not what he first appears, he is far more than the caricature of a mysterious oriental of his stage persona.

Both the real bad guys in Talons wear actual masks, which we have yet to see under, tho the glimpses so far are not promising!

Nick re Amy/Rory – you say you loved them because of their characters and the interplay between them, but could have done without their relationship ups and downs. Yet you wouldn’t know the characters so well if you hadn’t seen those moments. Eg in The Girl Who Waited, their relationship drives the plot – Amy’s anger at having been “abandoned”, her will to survive driven by her memory of Rory, Rory’s devotion regardless of how old she is –  is made even more poignant by our previous knowledge of their ups and downs and their own insecurities about how the other one feels.

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@juniperfish @bluesqueakpip @Shazzbot and @craig –

perhaps we could all get together Friday evening for a wee dram

Excellent idea.

(@Shazz – Prudent Scot, huh? After this I’ll be skint Scot, LOL)

What to wear, hmm? Don’t usually do cosplay, but then again don’t usually go to conventions, so… <reaches for thinking fez while dismissing silver jumpsuit idea!>

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@bluesqueakpip Can prob’ly cope with a 22 foot Colin… so long as there isn’t an equivalent sized Mel beside him 🙂 And we get Sylvester 😀

@craig Hey, no worries at all. I don’t hold it against you in the least that you got through on MY link and MY password 😉 (Enjoy milling about with all the ARSE fans, the kiddies and Ian Levines, hehe (of which we shall of course be completely free on the relatively calm Friday)). And if anyone deserves to benefit from being part of this forum, it’s definitely you!

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Reminder everyone re the TV Choice Awards – public voting. (I posted this further up, but it’s about 3 pages back now)

http://www.tvchoicemagazine.co.uk/awards/2013

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@bluesqueakpip Ooops – I’m from the provinces remember! So you’re saying opera glasses are probably advisable for the panel sessions? 😉

 

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@juniperfish @bluesqueakpip @Shazzbot (and bless you for trying)

That was one of the most frustrating ticket-buying experiences I’ve ever had! I suspect they might’ve had an inkling how busy it might be given the dedicated twitter account had over 10k followers, for 1500 (?)/day capacity event. The ticket link is now working for me, haha.  Still some Friday tickets left if anyone’s still looking.

Right – back to proper news – Anyone in Bradford? The National Media Museum there is looking for Who memorabilia…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23226255

 

 

 

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@bluesqueakpip Saturday’ll be mental anyway – might get room to breathe on Fri! And at least the hotel’s much cheaper when it doesn’t include a Sat night (Scottish soul reasserting itself!) (Thanks to the recently elusive @juniperfish for backup tech support also (I still don’t know why I couldn’t get the site to work properly))

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Yay! FINALLY. Fri ticket (Weeping Angels)

PS if any mods (@craig…?) want to delete this tale of woe (and ultimate success 🙂 ) please feel free – not really Dr Who News, but it’s been a vital lifeline which has kept me going thro the darkness! Thanks @bluesqueakpip for encouragement! (And absolutely no problem re bank balance – I was getting (embarrassingly!) desperate!)

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Bluesqueakpip weeping angels?

 

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