Deep Breath

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  • #30638
    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip aaaaaaaw, I geddit!!

    I think.

    @serahni  -will it be a huge event? Or is that a spaz question? (sorry my boy uses that word in that way: my pologies).  A K9? Fantastic! And a dalek: an empty bin. Although peopled with a 5 yr old that day! Fabulous!

    And yourself? You could have a triangular hairstyle, wear a black dress and train and black eye makeup: Tasha Lem!

    #30639
    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip you’re up late -busily working on all the computers in your special room. Do you ever sleep? I imagine when there’s a provocative post, your computer ‘dings’ and you respond and then go back to sleep!

    I know you’ve probably theorised at great length on the claricles but is it your position that they’re born or are they just made at the time Clara Prime dives into the ‘stream?

    Kindest, purofilion

    #30640
    Anonymous @

    so where are we with Missy now that @barnable seems to be taking a day off? Come baaaaack! We need your theorising.

    Missy:  Missus

    Missy: Master

    Missy : big dino

    Missy: Miss C (Clara)

    Missy: many claras or dead claricles.

    Missy: woman in the shop

    Missy: I’m mus’ see

    Missy: Mistress as teacher. opposite to Master as teacher but not long time foe of the Drs

    #30641
    janetteB @janetteb

    Missy as entirely new “big bad”. There was also the suggestion from @Thomck I think that Missy could be short for Melissa there being a character of that name in a novelisation that featured automata, though from my research on that (Wikipedia) it appears that Missy bears little resemblance to that Melissa.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #30642
    Whisht @whisht

    Purofilion – in terms of theories don’t forget:

    Missy is a personification of the Papal Mainframe (not Tasha who was its Mother Superious);
    OR
    Missy is the SS Madame de Pompadour (at least a personification of its AI)
    OR
    Missy is the SS Marie Antoinette (sent back in time to travel the long route in finding the Doctor as well as Marie’s brain possibly!)

    And that Clara is herself a claricle. That she’s recursive (I think that’s the word). By jumping into the timestream she resolved her own paradox.
    ie she jumped into the timestream and knocked a leaf from a tree so that her mum & dad could meet and she could be born, so that she could one day meet the Doctor and save him and then jump into his timestream.

    This then is how all the Claricles work – Clara’s jump in caused thousands of tiny events to cause two people to meet so that she could be born and help a particular Doctor at a certain time in her life (as a kid sometimes also, as when Matt met her on a swing).

    We have had that one haven’t we?

    [runs away!]

    🙂

    #30643
    Anonymous @

    Ah @whisht I get this: Clara the Recursive. By jumping in, she’s born and then she saves and so is born. This is how the Moff’s mind works and I like it -it’s complicated  but not nutty. Then, as a child, she can meet the Doctor-whether Clara Prime or claricle -is not irrelevant but redundant. It works.  But yes, I’d forgotten Missy as ‘Madame de’ etc…. or Mademoiselle.

    #30644
    Serahni @serahni

    @purofilion  Armageddon is usually reasonably big, it runs over the weekend.  I’ve not been for a couple of years and I’ve never been since it moved to the Showgrounds.  Should be interesting.

    Just watched ‘Deep Breath’ again, always good for picking up new little details and for confirming others.  I don’t have any brand new theories to throw into the mix but I was left with a sense after this viewing that there really is something endearing and sweet about The Doctor and all his relationships.  He finds the best people to associate with!

    #30645
    Silverman @silverman

    @purofilion – no worries, and definitely no offence taken! I was just confused as I was sure I hadn’t mentioned anything about ‘excuses’. Sadly, I even resorted to highlighting the word ‘excuses’ on screen to double-check I hadn’t missed something in one of my comments!

    @serahni @arbutus @midnyt and many, many others…

    Great theorising on Clara. So is she a paradox? ‘Born to save the Doctor’ because the one who’s been travelling with the Doctor is herself a Claricle? She’d then be one of those ‘loop’ paradoxes like Kyle Reece being John Conner’s father, but only after John Conner sent him back in time, or in a Doctor Who context like Rory freeing the Doctor from the Pandorica.

    I’ve always thought that all the ‘echoes’/Claricles live ‘proper’ lives up until the point that they save the Doctor, and fate or whatever nudges them into meeting/saving the Doctor, but (for all those wondering about her having children) I also think that fate makes is so that she never has kids.never been a massive fan of her character.

    I have found myself warming to Clara and her story a bit. I still think that she comes across as some kind of ‘fantasy girl’ – much like the 80s staple of the girl no-one fancied because she was a geek and wore glasses…even though she was drop-dead gorgeous. She also reminds me of – what’s it called again? a Manic-Pixie-Dream-Girl? Also, Moffat has made her so much more important that *any* of the other companions – almost seems a little unfair. I mean, how can any companion compete with her?

    But after seeing all the theorising on here, I’m starting to see her and her story in a slightly warmer light!

    #30648
    wolfweed @wolfweed
    #30650
    bivium6 @bivium6

    I love the idea that Clara is a paradox/Claricle, but it’s too Rose/Bad Wolf.

    I’m going back to the drawing board.

    Patterns:

    Nine had to save Rose from what she had become to save everyone from the Daleks, he learns love can save the world, not just violence.

    Ten tried to save Martha from what she became to save everyone from the Master.  He learned even with time travel, he can’t save everyone.

    Ten had to save Donna from what she had become to save everyone from the Daleks, he learns power that burns too bright, burns out (Waters of Mars too).

    Eleven had to save Clara from what she had become to save everyone from the GI, he learns to believe in the impossible.

    Maybe he has to save Missy this time, like he tried to save the Daleks (Rose Nine), the Master (Martha Ten) Darvos (Donna Ten) , and Gallifrey (Clara Eleven)

    #30651
    Silverman @silverman

    @bivium6 – I’d forgotten about Martha and her ‘quest’.

    So with Rose absorbing the power of the Time Vortex, Martha trapsing all over the world, Donna becoming the Doctor-Donna, and Amy… – actually can’t think of anything that Amy did – and Clara flinging herself into the Doctor’s timestream, all the ‘modern’ companions have been ‘special’ either by deed or birth. Can anyone who knows ‘Old-Who’ well tell me if companions of old ever did anything similar? Or has there been any attempt since 2005 for the companions to prove themselves by doing something ‘cosmically spectacular’ or ‘special’? In other words were the old companions more ‘ordinary/normal’?

    #30652
    Silverman @silverman

    On another note, I’ve always been puzzled why absorbing the power of the Time Vortex proved fatal for 9, even though he had it in him for a short time, but Rose was fine after having it in her for much longer – can anyone shed any light on it for me?

    #30665
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @silverman – the difference between BG Companions and AG Companions makes perfect sense in-story. Because the Before Gap Companions are basically Before Time War Companions and the After Gap Companions are the After Time War Companions.

    And while the Before Time War Doctor is happy enough travelling with any pretty young woman who happens to wander into his TARDIS (in a pinch, he’s okay with pretty young men, but he clearly prefers the women), the After Time War Doctor is clearly looking for someone at least potentially exceptional. For humans, that is. 😉

    Some of the Before Time War Companions were ‘special’ – Sarah Jane, quite capable of saving the world by herself, is a good example. Romana – a Time Lady who, rumour has it, later became President of Gallifrey. I’d rate Barbara Wright as pretty damn extraordinary – Clara is being positioned, in many ways, as her ‘heir’.

    Others were positioned as ‘special’ before they stepped on board. Zoe was a mathematical genius, as was Adric (okay, he didn’t work as well as Zoe).

    But the primary difference is that the AG Doctor chooses his Companions far more than the BG one ever did.

    #30666
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    z
    Melissa — the Goddess as Queen-bee, who annually killed her male consort…
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissus_of_Crete

     

    In Persian it means ‘Red Rose’…
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Melissa

    #30667
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @purofilion – no, I was just awake. Blame Doctor Who Legacy. 😉

    The Claricles are definitely shown as growing up – we had a quick shot of a Victorian child-Clara as well as the child Clara who the Doctor meets. The weird thing is that the Victorian Mum is played by the same actress who plays Clara-from-Blackpool’s Mum.

    Apparently being scattered in a Time Lord’s time-stream doesn’t just result in hundreds of copies of you, it also results in hundreds of copies of your Mum. Who seems to know this at some level: the ‘I will always find you’ scene in Rings of Akhatan.

    Let’s just say that I don’t think Clara’s Impossible Girl status is resolved; that’s why we were reminded of the nickname in Deep Breath.

    #30668
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Oh, loving all the C.laricles speculation.

    Sorry to disagree, but I think we’re done with claricles (tho not with Clara). They belong with the last cycle of regenerations (Hartnell to  to Matt) – there to retcon/save the Doctor from any mistakes/sabotage by the Great Intelligence.  Her memory of her mum (as the strongest influence/inspiration she has) follows her thro all her incarnations. My theory is that the claricles appear as fully formed Claras (as the age she was when she jumped into the timeline (as the doctor said – they’re “echoes” ie not real) and home in timeywime-ily on the Doctor’s current crisis.  Just because the claricle died on 2 occasions doesn’t mean she has to die every time she intervenes. Or maybe it does… once each particular crisis is resolved, the claricle “dissolves”.

    But, as with my usual track record – I’m probably completely wrong!

    #30670
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @bluesqueakpip You’ve redecorated.

    I like it!

    Also liking @wolfweed‘s Melissa of Crete link.  Now that’s creepy – especially given the rather salacious way she keeps talking about her “boyfriend”

    And how did HFM/Humpty get to “Paradise”? If it’s a matrix type simulation (and we’re mostly agreed it doesn’t look real) that suggests consciousness transference… but do robots have consciousness? (Do androids dream of electric sheep…?)

    But did she place the ad in the paper and was she the woman in the shop? Whoever placed the ad was setting a trap, surely, whereas the shop woman was helpful.

    Hmm… half an hour to think it over.

    I liked Deep Breath – thought it did its job of explaining how the show works to recent and new viewers – ie we explain nothing/everythingveryquickly and it’s up to you to keep up and puzzle it out!!  I know it drives some people bonkers, but it’s what I like about Moffat’s writing. I liked RTD’s social realism backgrounds, but I love Moff’s “bigger on the inside” style (the more you look the more you find).

    #30679
    deadmeat3171 @deadmeat3171

    I’m curious why somebody who’s seen all the previous versions of the doctor(name of the doctor)

    Would be freeked by him regenerating

    She even commented how she didn’t recognise John hurts doctor meaning she remembered all the others

    Is Steven mofat now messing with his own stuff after changing stuff from the Russell t Davis stuff

    #30682
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @deadmeat3171

    Clara’s only seen all the regenerations of the Doctor up till 11 (13 when you include Hurt and 10a ).   When she jumped into the timeline, Matt hadn’t been granted extra regenerations and was in the last one of the cycle.

    So Capaldi is completely new for her as well as us. That fact alone is enough to unsettle her.

    #30683
    #30698
    Anonymous @

    @silverman

    actually can’t think of anything that Amy did?

    Amy gave birth to a TL (River could regenerate, makes her at least part TL?) and brought the Doctor back into existence from her memories.

     On another note, I’ve always been puzzled why absorbing the power of the Time Vortex proved fatal for 9, even though he had it in him for a short time, but Rose was fine after having it in her for much longer – can anyone shed any light on it for me?

    😀 Please imagine Spock saying this.

    We know that Rose is human, the Doctor is TL,

     By your observation, one could conclude that humans have a higher tolerance for VE than TLs do, based on the available evidence (the accuracy of which is questionable, due to a limited sample size and its being currently unverifiable by further experimentation). I suspect that combining the VE with the TL’s RE may be a contributing factor as to why.

     As for ‘Father’s Day’ – I agree with everything you said about how important the fixed point was for the future Rose and the vulnerability of the point, both key elements for the creatures.

     We don’t know much more about the creatures, except that they can appear when there is an accident in time. Nothing says that they always appear.

    1.  Were they sent by Bad Wolf? Definitely her m.o, but not her style IMO.
    2. @devilishrobby invented an idea of “living time” from about 9 months ago, which could mean that the creatures are the antibodies of time. That fits the Doctor’s comparing them to bacteria (but rule #1 again). And raises your question of why only sometimes.
    3. I think they are similar to police and speeding. Tickets are one possible consequence but not inevitable.

    I’m sure there are other possible explainations for these questions. But these are the ones I can live with for now. I hope they help.  🙂

     

    #30702
    geoffers @geoffers

    @barnableI suspect that combining the VE with the TL’s RE may be a contributing factor as to why

    excellent idea! perhaps there’s an “allergic” reaction to vortex energy, that triggers a regeneration? or even death, with long enough exposure?

    oooh, if so, then all the daleks need to do is harness vortex energy and use it as a weapon against the timelords (when/if they return)…

    🙂

    #30706
    Silverman @silverman

    @barnable – fair point re: Amy – I stand corrected! I knew there was something but couldn’t remember as I was typing. I’ve watched News series 1-4 quite a few times (helps to put them on in the background while I’m working in the dead of night), and series 5 a few as well, but series 6 & 7 only once or twice – so I’m not as familiar with some of the details.

    Also, good points (along with @geoffers) on the creatures in ‘Fathers’ Day’ – I seem to remember the Doctor calling them something like antibodies and that they were sterilising the wound, which would imply an automatic action if it was ‘living time’.

    #30715
    Silverman @silverman

    @barnable – forgot to say that imagining Spock reading that explanation made me laugh out loud – well played.

    #30716
    Anonymous @

     I don’t mean to sound too harsh.  Thank you @silverman for not taking it that way.  You have a talent for asking many thought provoking questions.

    #30718
    Silverman @silverman

    @barnable – no offence taken – I didn’t think you were being harsh! As for the questions after nearly ten years after the restart, and a certain familiarity with the adventures of 9,10 & 11 I keep remembering questions I’ve always wanted answering, and this forum is pretty much the first place I’ve found where you can seriously ask, or at least muse! I couldn’t really see myself asking in the harsh realms of the Guardian or Den of Geek forums…

    #30719
    Anonymous @

    @silverman  as usual all these comments occur thru the night and I can’t get to them! I wanted to agree with @barnable about Amy’s importance- at the very beginning she saved the Star Whale and helped to calm down the Doctor -who was furious as to what was happening.

    At the end, whilst in her nightie, Amy and the Dr exchang a huge hug.

    Of course, she survived the crack in the wall and prayed to the heavens to help her -the Dr was sent.

    Ultimately, by wishing and receiving the Blue Book from River during her wedding reception, she brought the Dr back -thru her memories. To me, that’s the most important thing any companion has done!

    @scaryb I think that it’s possible that the claricles were not born in the way we see in that excerpt of Victorian London -personally I think Clara’s mind devises this as a protection. So I’d agree with you.

    I also wonder if she’s gonna die soon. I think maybe that Missy is after Clara and that something Clara did means she has to be ‘vanished’. Perhaps a new form of the GI is out to get her. So, yes, the Claricles have dispersed for the final time and we’re left with Clara -who could be a claricle in herself and doesn’t know it yet.

    When you said “half an hour to work it out”. I didn’t know what you meant -of course, you’re seeing the 2nd episode… eer, ‘last night! (timey whimey)

    I have 9 hours to go before it’s on  -though it’s on ABC iview already I suspect. Exciting

    Kindest,

    puro

    #30722
    Silverman @silverman

    @purofilion – yes, as you and barnable have mentioned Amy had done quite a bit! Not being quite as familar with series 6 & 7 I’d forgotten what she’d done, but I really like series 5 and now that you’ve mentioned it – and I’ve remembered – it’s strange to think I’d forgotten in the first place!

    #30723
    Anonymous @

    @silverman that’s the thing with forgetting; you have to remember you’ve forgotten!  The Dr had to be consciously remembered back into being. Amy was so important -for that reason and so many others. He landed in her yard where the crack in the wall was prominent. From there the crack was the theme running thru the whole 3 series (?) – as important as the Impossible Girl, I guess.

    #30724
    Anonymous @

    @geoffers

    oooh, if so, then all the daleks need to do is harness vortex energy and use it as a weapon against the timelords (when/if they return)…

    I hope the TLs guard the Vortex with all they’ve got then. We’ve waited this long (I’ve barely seen them), and you already have their destruction planned.  😆

    #30725
    janetteB @janetteb

    @scaryb  I think that whoever put the add in the paper was trusting the Doctor and Clara to sort out what was wrong in the restaurant and deal with it which makes it in which case it is someone who knows the Doctor well and has absolute faith in him. You may well be right though as I am usually wrong. 🙂

    I will have to go back and rewatch TNofD but I thought that it is implied that Clara saves the Doctor in the past and future which leaves it open for a Claricle to appear at some time.  But then I suppose, (thinking about this as I type) that is the Doctor’s “scar” from what becomes and aborted future where he dies during the Matt Smith regeneration at Trenzalore so in that scar there is no Peter Capaldi and thus the Claricles will not be appearing again. That story is done as you say. Wow I started that paragraph intending to say the opposite because I thought encountering a “Claricle” in a future story would be fun…

    I concurr with you re’ Moffat’s stories being “bigger on the inside.” They are like Gallifrian art.

    @bluesqueakpip (Nice Avatar) I like the reference to Barbara Wright, still one of my favourite companions. If Clara is the new Barbara then Danny Pink must be the Ian. (though it seems he won’t be a Tardis traveller, not initially at least from what I have read.)

    @Purofilion I wondered why this thread was still active then I read you post and realised it those of us yet to see last night’s (or tonight’s) episode still here.  (We will be watching the next episode over dinner tonight. So long to resist the lure of spoilers.)

    Cheers

    Janette

     

    #30748
    deadmeat3171 @deadmeat3171

    Who says the scar is from when the doctor died as matt smith

    He will have to return there one day

    to answer the question

    #30760
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @deadmeat3171

    You need to rewatch Name of the Doctor and Time of the Doctor

    Briefly – the TARDIS in NotD is clearly Smith’s. Clara also says, with ref to Hurt’s Dr – “But I’ve seen all your faces… all eleven…”

    The subject has been discussed at length on this forum – http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/forums/topic/s33-7-14-the-name-of-the-doctor/

    The question was asked (in the hidden message from the Timelords (What is your name?)) on Trenzalore in TotD (where there is a truth field so no one can speak falsely). It’s also answered – by Clara (he’s called the Doctor – that’s all the name he needs).

     

    #30764
    wolfweed @wolfweed
    #30766
    ABXY @abxy

    @wolfweed I don’t understand why this can’t just be treated the same as any other kiss on TV… It’s ridiculous that one kiss between two people who are obviously in love, and have been portaryed as so on the show for 3(?) years now, can’t express their affection in any way without having all this commotion about it… :s

    On the good side, the TV sensorship thing in the UK have refused to comply to complaints about it, as they don’t discriminate.

    #30768
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @abxy sadly, although the UK (as confirmed in Ofcom’s recent statement regarding the 6 complaints it had received about the kiss) doesn’t officially discriminate against kissers according to gender (or species apparently!) it’s not the case in much of the rest of the world.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-25927595

     

     

    #30769
    ABXY @abxy

    @scaryb one day it’ll be fine for people to love whoever they love, all around the world, even if it takes a long time to get there.

    #30828
    cpgolfer @cpgolfer

    Clara jumped into the doctors time stream how much of his life did she see how much does she remember was never covered but she saw all of his regenerations so should she be freaking out like she this.  I did like how she handled dinogirl  not sure if she’s use to being talked to like that lol speaking about dinogirl and the misses  any info on there own series or how the three of them ended up in that time.

    #30968
    Brewski @brewski

    Oh my aching click-finger! I just HAD to pick this week to be away on business!

     

    Ok, I am going to start with apologies to EVERYONE for not replying directly, but it is 12 pages (ooh, irony!) I have a lot of catching up to do, so I’m just short-list my thoughts and move on to the next episode. (And then find a Missy page to comment on, if there is one.)

     

    In no particular order:

     

    1) I LOVE the bonking idea of Missy being and old Clara, but can’t actually buy it. She seems to be experiencing these events in the same order we are. So why would she say “I love his new accent” if she was an old Clara. It would have been “I LOVED that new accent.”

     

    2) <Nitpick> Eleven complaining that he hopes 12 isn’t old. Huh? Dude, until your brief reset (just a few minutes before) you were all old and wrinkled and balding. From your perspective, a full head of hair – gray or not – would be a refreshing… um… refresh.</Nitpick>

     

    3) “Don’t look in that mirror! It’s absolutely furious!” LOVE IT. Have rewatched just that line 4 times.

     

    4) Vastra’s line: “Well then… here we go again.” Nice call back to The Brig’s comment when 3 regen’ed into 4.

     

    5) The Woman in the Shop. HAH! Just a throwaway line, huh? SHE’S BAA-ACK!

     

    6) Clara’s flashback to the students taunting her. I felt a little cheated there. I really LOVE how she handled herself in that scene and calling out the droid (Ok, I’ll happily go with Humpty). But I wish we’d been given that setup with her students some time before this. ANY time before. Preferably a brief scene in the previous season. But barring that as a flash back earlier in this one. It just came out of nowhere for me, so it seemed very forced and expository.

     

    7) Matt Smith’s cameo. I am neutral on this one. It did not make me feel it detracted from the new doctor. And I get the purpose of it. Let’s face it, long-time-fans: How many of us wouldn’t have been thrilled to wetting ourselves if Tom Baker had made a brief appearance to reassure Peter Davison?!

     

    8) One of us is lying about his basic programming. I have to go with others who have pointed out that the Doctor HAS killed. Humpty may have been lying, but the Doctor plainly was. Of course, that does not mean he did the pushing. I think that is one of those moments that was left ambiguous on purpose and always will be.

     

    9) Clara finally accepting this new Doctor: just a bit of an odd moment for me. She spent most of the show not warming to him. Then she listens to 11 for a while. Then she still doesn’t accept him. Then she looks into his eyes. Then she accepts him. I felt like I needed just a little finer transition there. Like Clara hugging him and 12 saying “Was it something he said?” And Clara answering “It was something YOU said.”

     

    10) Overall, enjoyed it thoroughly. Good, solid, enjoyable episode.

    Thanks All!  Now off to the next one!

    #31033
    timelord12 @timelord12

    does anyone know the name of the font that is used in the current title sequence??

    thanks

    #31044
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    z

    #31045
    Stormaggeddon @stormy72

    Nice! 🙂

    #31072
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    z

    #31333
    VashtaNerada @vashtanerada

    Yay! I finally watched deep breath! Alright Peter Capaldi, I apologise for thinking I wouldn’t like you… very good episode, although it felt a tiny bit…. un-doctor-who-ish. I dunno. I loved the bit where Vashtra was ‘painting’ only to be working on their crime investigation! The only bit which really confused me out of the whole thing was the end, with the ‘promised land’ and that creepy lady who seems to know the Doctor. hmm…

    #31417
    MikeofMcr @mikeofmcr

    Just finished watching DB for the second time. There are still about 40 posts I have not read and not sure if these thoughts have been mentioned, but I want to share 2 ideas.

    On first viewing I was not surprised that Clara did not know the Paternoster gang, because the first time she was a Claricle. But I was surprised that they did not know her. The only conclusion is that this was the first time they met her or any of her incarnations. I will need to go back to see if in the Snowmen, they do recognise her on first meeting. If they don’t, we may need to try and find an explanation.

    Second it struck me that 12 did a Timey-wimey thing and off screen contacted 11, saying that i) he had a problem with Clara with her not accepting him, ii) he was scared and iii) he really needs Clara. How else would 11 know he needs to call her to reassure her?

    #31418
    Timeloop @timeloop

    Hello @mikeofmcr!

    Regarding your first idea: She does know the paternoster gang and they know her. What made you think they don’t know each other? I can’t see it.

    And regarding the second: 11 and 12 had no contact. 11 ist just imagining the situation and remembering past regenerations. He has experienced quite a few. He also knows Clara through their journeys together and the reactions of various companions (Rose had trouble getting it into her head, too, hadn’t she?) . He wanted to make sure that some old bond remained to his former life, I imagine. Good “old” 11.

    #31419
    Timeloop @timeloop

    GUYS GUYS GUYS GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How did I not see this? Has anyone seen it? GUYS! Tell me what you think!

    I just rewatched the episode to make sure I give an informed answer to @mikeofmcr AND and at the end, just before 11 calls – the Doctor says ‘You’d better get that, it might be your boyfriend‘!!!
    And then we all got distracted by the lovely, awesome 11.
    And mere minutes, seconds later we heard Missy call the Doctor her boyfriend. 11 was a distraction! Imagine those scenes without 11.

    12 calls 11 Claras boyfriend and Missy calls the Doctor her boyfriend. There must be a connection! It MUST be a hint! It MUST!

    What do you think?

    #31420
    MikeofMcr @mikeofmcr

    @timeloop Thanks for the response.

    1st Point. When Clara leaves the Tardis, they don’t acknowledge each other, which is what I would expect old friends to do. There is no “Good to see you again” or “How are things?”, etc. Even with a regenerating Doctor I would expect, “I see you have been having a few problems, Clara”.

    2nd point. I said it was off screen. It is a just an idea. It works either way. 9 was certainly trying to prepare Rose, but 11’s last scene before becoming 12, he was reminiscing about Amy. He could have told her what he said on the phone at that point. In reality, I agree with many of the posters that SM put this scene in to reassure the audience rather than the characters.

    And as for your other idea, posted this second, I will have to think on that one.

    #31421
    MikeofMcr @mikeofmcr

    @timeloop

    I am highly, highly speculating here but does it work that those that the doctor physically kills, as opposed to may be dying to protect him end up with Missy. She is in some way his appeaser of his guilt complex?

    Coming back to your eureka moment, I think you are right it is too much of a coincidence. But I don’t know that it necessarily leads to Missy being a Clara derivative. What Missy is wearing, has any one else worn the same outfit? That may be a lead.

    #31424
    Whisht @whisht

    hey @timeloop – hmmm… nice hook for some bonkerising!

    On first hearing it I was (shamefully) thinking it was simply a kinda mirroring in the script:
    ie The Doctor is embarrassed with his former regeneration’s desire to be liked so much he wanted to be Clara’s boyfriend, so is sarcastic towards himself “… your ‘boyfriend’ “. Clara is also embarrassed that she had thought of him like that too (saying “of course not” and somesuch).

    That is then mirrored by Missy’s almost psychotic “…my boyfriend” which also seems to be a mistaken emotion.

    However – dull dull dull!! You’re right, its obviously a clue (though it took @mikeofmcr to spell out to me that that would make her a Claricle!).

    And if I can’t make that hold any water…. I’ll try and link it to the Papal Mainframe and remember that its all about theories far more insane than what is actually happening!

    😉

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