On The Sofa (7)

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  • #43912
    lisa @lisa

    @pedant oops ! But I think its also there

    #43913
    lisa @lisa

    @pedant well ok – that was you 🙂 I guess I got a bit fuzzy just then lol

    #43914

    😉

    #43917
    ichabod @ichabod

    @lisa   Danny could be the ghost haunting Coal Hill School . . .

    #43918
    lisa @lisa

    @ichabod Hey I think you are onto something. We can make him the oversight interface
    mechanism like Giles was for Buffy except instead of a hell mouth we get a. nethersphere
    b. space and c. time.
    But if Danny comes back from the Nethersphere I want him to bring Seb along!

    #43921
    janetteB @janetteb

    I hope there is some continuity with actors from previous Coal Hill based episodes. As soon as I read the news in the news thread I thought of Sarah Jane but I suspect with S.M at the helm it will have a very different vibe.

    @lisa I would definitely vote for a ghostly return of Seb.

    cheers

    Janette

    #43922
    ichabod @ichabod

    SEB, yes — fussy, loquacious, full of delicate euphemisms for being, ah, dead . . . he’s a virus in the computer network the kids work with in their classrooms, sometimes makes his own announcements over the P.A. system . . . Is anxious to stay hidden from Missy — all right, all right, that’s enough of that, me.

    #43923
    Anonymous @

    @jphamlore

    Thank you for the links about the Daleks you provided on The Witch’s Familiar page.

    A Spokesman for the Doctor Who Appreciation Society said that Dr Who without Daleks “would be like Wimbledon without strawberries.”

    OK, then. I’ve been to Wimbledon and I’ve never had any strawberries.

    Interesting, that at one stage, a company or TV channel (possibly involved with the BBC) wanted to have “gay Daleks.” What the heck? I didn’t know that Terry Nation was involved with Blakes 7.

    No doubt everybody knows this.

    And now I do!

    #44185
    lisa @lisa

    Galifrey TV Shopping network

    #44238
    janetteB @janetteb

    @lisa thanks for the link. That is lovely. I was in a lego shop on Saturday but no sign of any Lego Dr Who, yet. They have done a good job with that set.  I especially like the Dalek. Not bad, for Lego…

    Cheers

    Janette

     

    #44281
    lisa @lisa

    http://io9.com/correct-1506380426

    WARNING ! Funny naughtiness 🙂

    #44338
    lisa @lisa

    For all the myth and Clara theory enthusiasts I found a Tinglit origin story about
    where daylight comes from. In it the raven (who is considered a trickster) decides
    to pass himself off as a leaf that drops into the water and a young girl who is the
    daughter of the owner of daylight swallows the leaf and becomes pregnant. So then the
    raven becomes reborn by her and manages to steal the light ( Clara means light). Raven
    then changes back and takes light into the sky to make daylight for the world. That’s
    the gist of it. I thought that was very interesting. Here’s where I found it..
    https://books.google.com/books?id=h2xfWlMfMhgC&pg=PA639&dq=tinglit+story+about+the+raven+and+the+leaf&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMI3sG0qPmzyAIVSjKICh3CJA4c#v=onepage&q=tinglit%20story%20about%20the%20raven%20and%20the%20leaf&f=false
    The Tinglits were a first nation people of the Pacific NW of America. They are the ones
    that made the Totem poles.

    #44340
    Anonymous @

    @lisa

    holy heck: you’ve solved the Clara back story. It all rests on a leaf!

    I’m gonna read that link. Thank you lisa.

    #44343
    lisa @lisa

    @purofilion Nah I wouldn’t say I found a back story but I do love to find
    coincidence. It’s in the middle of that page (of teeny weeny print)

    #44354
    JimmytheTulip @jimmythetulip

    For those interested in a Doctor Who Podcast where they review each episode of the show after it’s aired, I listen to The Doctor’s Companion. Three American hosts present the show and they’re really very good, in my opinion. They each have good insights into the episode and mix it up with some humour as well.

    They’ve just released the latest episode reviewing Under the Lake and you can listen or get it here…

    http://www.thedoctorscompanion.us/

    #44358
    janetteB @janetteb

    On the subject of Who related podcasts I have been intending to share a a link to this one, http://womentalkscifi.com/ . It is not specific to Who but there are plenty of interviews there of past actors etc. I believe they recently interviewed Matt Smith and Alex Kingston. Not sure if those are “up” on site yet or not. Lots of interesting stuff about other sci fi favourites too. (One of the women who runs it is a friend of mine.)

    Cheers

    Janette

    #44365
    Mudlark @mudlark

    @lisa   Good call re Raven.  All the discussion of raven references had reminded me, also, of the Tlingit myth (although I wasn’t sufficiently well informed to know that it was specifically Tinglit; only that belonged to peoples of the north west coast of  North America).

    Have you ever come across the Winter of the World novels by Michael Scott Rohan?  They are fantasies set in an imaginary vanished civilisation centred on the west coast of North America during the last Ice Age.  The stories feature supernatural Powers who control the Ice and whose aim is to use it to scour the whole earth and return it to a pristine lifeless state. Opposing them are other Powers  who sometimes meddle in human affairs, and one of these is Raven. As in the Tlingit myth he is a trickster and his symbol is a raven with the sun in its beak, in the style of Tlingit art, but he also has many of the characteristics of Odin, appearing to humans as a cloaked wanderer with a staff, or as a warrior carrying a spear.  So two for the price of one, as it were  🙂

    If you haven’t read any of the books, they are well written and for the underlying mythology the author has drawn very effectively on First Nation, Norse and Finnish sources and made of them something seamlessly coherent.  I would recommend in particular the trilogy  The Anvil of Ice, The Forge in the Forest and The Hammer of the Sun

    #44379
    lisa @lisa

    @mudlark Thanks for the suggestion about Rohan. I will definitely take up his books!
    Have you met him? His bio says he has worked on excavations. He seems a very interesting
    character and so I bet his books will be too.

    @jphamlore In regards to Clara. I cant completely agree about Clara as ‘baseline’
    human. There have been for me personally too many clues indicating that there is
    something strange about her. I don’t believe that this is completely nothing
    on the part of SM without building up to a big reveal about her. He is really
    great when it comes to cooking things up with his characters. Look what he did
    with Rose and Bad Wolf. There have been too many incidental Clara occurrences
    that cant be fully explained and even the Doctor thinks that. One of the big
    problems for me is that I really don’t know how she survived the time stream.
    River said she would die. So how was the Doctor able to save her? No one knows.
    You just don’t drop little clues season after season if it isn’t meant to lead up
    to something. I just found an origin myth of the Tinglist native Americans that has
    to do with a raven an a leaf and rebirth. If you recall Clara’s origin story began
    with a leaf and her mother’s maiden name was Ravenwood. That’s just too much
    coincidence for me when you think about how much mythology is used in the series now.

    #44380
    Mudlark @mudlark

    @lisa  No, I have never met Rohan, despite the Edinburgh connection.  I came across his books originally while browsing in bookshops, as is my habit, but it is clear from his writing alone that he has eclectic interests and a thorough understanding of the essentials of archaeology, cultural anthropology and mythology.  I tend to be highly critical when it comes to fantasy novels, because so many are derivative or lacking in internal consistency, but his writing really drew me in and absorbed me into his imagined worlds.

    Apart from the Winter of the World novels, he has written another fantasy series in which our reality is the centre, core or hub of a spiral or wheel of possibilities, where everything ever imagined by man can be encountered – the further out from the hub the more extreme –  and every place in the world has its archetypal counterpart.  The spiral impinges on reality for those who are lucky enough to stumble on the interface, so that someone idly wandering one evening through a half derelict port district might suddenly see a forest of masts above the rooftops, emerge to find sailing ships of many periods of history moored at the wharf side, and eventually find themselves sailing into the sunset among cloud archipelagos to find adventure.

     

    #44381
    lisa @lisa

    @mudlark Actually all the fantasy novels I’ve read have been winners of Hugo or Nebula
    awards. I haven’t read any of the Doctor Who novels yet either 🙁 but its on my to do list!
    I generally gravitate mostly towards history, mystery and historical fiction novels but I do
    love folklore and magical stories.

    In recent days however I’ve been surfing thru the internet to investigate Clara Theory.
    I’m trying to find something about the leaf. So I went back to the scene where
    Clara’s parent talk about the leaf. Then I went looking at the leaves from UK trees.
    There is 1 tree called the Rowan and of course it has both Norse and Celtic mythology
    attached to it. The Druids thought of it as a threshold tree between worlds or the portal tree.
    But it doesn’t look much like the same leaf. But I will stay on the trail 🙂

    #44382
    Mudlark @mudlark

    @lisa  Clara’s leaf looked like a sycamore or maple leaf, so you are right; nothing like a rowan (also known as mountain ash) leaf.  The rowan was sometimes planted by the doors of houses to guard against witches and other evils. I’m a bit doubtful about the druid connection, though.  Almost all of what is known for certain about the druids of antiquity is from the writings of classical authors such as Tacitus, and that does not amount to very much.  What nineteenth century and modern Romantics have built on that rather tenuous base is of doubtful authenticity.

    In folklore, another tree with magical connotations is the hawthorn, a common hedgerow plant in the British Isles.  In Ireland it is also known as the Fairy Thorn, and it is supposed to be bad luck to cut it down or injure it because that would incur on the wrath of the Good People and bring bad luck .  There are apocryphal tales of the planned routes of new roads, even in recent times, being diverted in order to avoid having to fell a hawthorn.  One legendary hawthorn is the Glastonbury Thorn, which was supposed to have descended from one grown from the staff  of Joseph of Aramathea on a visit to Britain.

    #44389
    lisa @lisa

    @mudlark Yes, my money is on the Sycamore which I know well because I have one.
    Thought that it was probably that but also thought I’d surf around to see if there
    was anything else. Sycamores are not native to the UK however the Egyptians
    also thought about them as portal trees between worlds. So maybe its that.
    Or maybe not? What I am sure of is there was probably no expectation about someone
    surfing the net over this 🙂 lol

    #44394
    lisa @lisa

    One more thing about the leaf possibly coming from a Sycamore tree. The Egyptian goddess Hathor
    is 1 of the 3 goddesses we have been previously been discussing. She is represented by the Sycamore
    and also mirrors and has strong connections with lots of celestial bodies. She is the sky goddess and
    is covered in stars. She is also supposed to be a divine bridge to reawaken memories. So just
    though I’d give that a little mention cause you never know in Dr. Who what little thing is connected.

    #44398
    winston @winston

    Hello everybody out there! I just joined the forum but I have been lurking since before series 8 started. Because I have read so many bonkers theories from so many of you I feel I know some of you already. So maybe it is only fair to let you know a little about me.

    I am a “middle age” grandma who lives in rural Ontario, Canada surrounded by farmland,forests and lakes. It is very beautiful country. I love my family and friends, my saucey terrier Newton,my natural environment and Doctor Who. And not always in that order. Oh yeah I think I am funny. You can be the judges of that.

    I am new to forums but after a year or more of enjoying this Who Home  I had to join.Please excuse any mistakes as I learn my way around.I am not even sure this post will work.(fingers crossed)

    So… I love the Doctor and I wanted to share that love with like-minded people from around the world.How exciting. I think I will go explore some more.

    winston

    #44399
    winston @winston

    Yay! It worked.

    #44400
    ichabod @ichabod

    @winston  Nice to hear from a new member!  Gods know there’s lots to catch up on around here.

    #44402
    winston @winston

    Thank you @ichabod. Because I was such a rabid lurker I feel pretty caught up. I will try to work my way through the site and add anything I have to say that has not been said before. It will be difficult to top the great bonkers theories already posted so I will just carry on reading everyone elses and enjoying pondering the possibilties. I can hardly wait till tommorow my granddaughters 7th birthday and a new Doctor Who, Saturdays are good,I like Saturdays.

    winston

    #44404
    Missy @missy

    @winston

    Hello there. I too still have trouble finding my way around.

    It’s grand being a Whovian with other nutters. *grin*

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #44455
    winston @winston

    @missy Since I have loved and lurked for so long I know where alot of stuff is and I love reading all the comments. Whovians  have to stick together and what better place than this friendly place. It was a beautiful day here,suuny and warm,and then a new Who. Life is good.

    #44457
    Anonymous @

    @winston

    are you from the US or from Oz? I’ve just noticed that you’ve said “a beautiful day” so I’m assuming the States! Hope your granddaughter’s birthday went really well -these parties can be exhausting but delightful too. It’s marvellous that you’re involved with your grandchildren. My parents were not particularly involved with their grandchildren: in fact, my brother and I would laugh that each time his wife fell pregnant (he has 4 children, and I, ‘just’ the one) our parents would move further north 🙂

    And yes, I agree: this is a great Forum, thanks to our beloved emperor @craig and the other mods.

    I’ve gone to a few other Forums lately  -just for a peek, mind, and I find that they have some quite odd and funny rules:

    • don’t use any odd fonts or italics or Latin
    • Start a thread whenever you like
    • Don’t exceed 1000 words per post [I’d be stuffed & so would a few others]
    • Never reply to another’s comments and don’t ever tag other people
    • Don’t be a Moffat-lover [seriously, that was one rule somewhere: probably the site has crashed painfully]

    I’ll think you’ll find that this Forum has few rules, and those it has are appropriate and work very well. People don’t start new threads as only mods do in order to keep repetition at bay. There are great academic debates as well as music threads and connections to other telly series that, frankly, I’d never have been introduced to had it not been for particular members I respect pointing me in certain directions. One @pedant even kindly wrote out a set of books associated with Sci/Fi which I could read, as this was one genre that I’d completely missed and didn’t know how to even begin.

    Kindest, purofilion

    #44458
    Anonymous @

    @winston

    I’m sorry -reading your earlier post, you’ve already said you’re from Ontario. My bad. As you were 🙂

    There are other members from Canada on the Forum -some of the best theorists and writers I might add.

    Kindest, puro.

    #44461
    winston @winston

    @purofilion Yep I am from Canada and the weather has been very nice lately. The party went well,lots of children,family,pets and noise. I have 3 grandchildren and we are all very close. They are the rewards for not not going insane when  my kids were teenagers. Today was my 7 year old granddaughters day and she had a great one.

    I found this forum by luck while searching for anything Doctor to fill my need between series 7 and 8 and finally decided to take the plunge after only a year or so lurking.

    #44466
    Missy @missy

    @winston

    Life certainly is good winston. Doctor Who in full flight, and Sherlock hovering in the background – my cup over floweth. *big soppy grin*

    I dare not read any posts today, I haven’t seen the third episode yet.

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #44468
    winston @winston

    @missy I certainly wait with great excitement for some new Sherlock. It is such a good re-interpretation of an old favourite of mine. It is near perfect television imo. I also where a big goofy grin at the thought.

    Now I am off to bed its past midnight here and morning always comes too early so…

    nighty  night, winston

    #44469
    Anonymous @

    @missy  -Oh me too! But I’m so jolly tempted! I went over to the page for the comments and did a quick scan but only a ‘quick’ one because I want to be a ‘clean skin’ watcher for tonight. In Oz, we see it at 7.30pm on the Sunday night. It IS available on the ABC’s catch up TV site which is great but there’s nothing like seeing it all together with the family in the evening.

    @winston

    I’m glad the birthday party went well. It’s always good when a party doesn’t end up in tears or worse, a fractured skull from a piñata stick that was handled by a little ‘dalek.’

    That almost happened at Boy Ilion’s party (at age 5) where a friend (who didn’t have children but cheerily agreed to ‘control’ the piñata activity) allowed the children to come closer and closer to the hanging soccer ball as they were using a broom to smash the heck out of it. She didn’t realise that the kids were so close to the broom that a few nearly had their heads bashed in! A former footballer friend of ours raced across the park arena and managed to intervene in time. Phew. 🙂

    That day was probably the most exhausting party ever -it was soccer themed and foolishly, after boiling all the eggs, I then made each egg into a soccer ball with a black and red ink pen. My own boy dropped his egg and had a tantrum in the middle of the race! The thing which really got up my nose was that I’d invited certain children but the parents brought all their children (and some were 3 -6 and so wanted cake, lollies and game prezzies too!). I even had to make extra goody bags so they wouldn’t feel left out. Worse, they sat around on the chairs I’d brought and didn’t bother keeping an eye out on their own three or five year olds! They actually cracked open some beers and had a nap. I was tempted to pour sticky lemonade all over them and tip them out of the chairs!

    Thank goodness the party times are over  🙂

    Kindest,  Puro

    #44470
    Anonymous @

    @winston

    of course, this reads like the children were the ones “cracking open beers and having a nap.” I’m not denying that happened either. 😉

    #44471
    winston @winston

    @purofilion Parties for 30 or 35 year olds are alot more fun but wth equal amounts of crying and temper tantrums.Just adult sized.

    nighty nighy,winston

    #44474
    Missy @missy

    @winston Hope you slept well, I’m off to watch DW.

    @purofilion Oh, you bad Whovian! *laughs* Well, it’s almost 2.30pm so I’m off to watch on iiView right now. Recorder is set up for tonight, so I can watch it again. My husband isn’t impressed, so I needn’t wait to watch with him.
    I cannot wait to see how right all of you were about the Arthurian Legend – or not.

    Best to both of you,

    Missy

    #44481
    Anonymous @

    @missy

    I cannot wait to see how right all of you were about the Arthurian Legend

    Ooh no, don’t count me in with that! I know so very little about Arthurian Legends: it’s embarrassing actually. My family, friends, students and others are amazed at my ignorance. I have other interests I claim (:ahem:).

    So I’ll Wikipedia it to death.

    Enjoy your episode and then go post on the other thread. I shall be doing meditation after the episode.

    #44528
    cumquat @cumquat

    I would like to write to indicate how appalled I am by the reasoned, well-articulated, and, perhaps most disturbing of all, civilized, discussion of Doctor Who that takes place on this site!

    This is not the internet as I am used to it, and I am very worried about the implications it has for the healthy trolling that now dominates the internet and allows people like myself to make outrageous and unsubstantiated claims of abuse about any and all topics.

    I am very concerned indeed that, left unchallenged, the sort of reasoned and civilized discussion that takes place on this site may actually catch on. The implications this would have for trolls and haters like myself to hide behind the comforting anonymity of the internet to engage in dismissive invective is troubling indeed.

    Not only this, but I am especially alarmed that if one reads through the contributions to this site in any detail (something that goes against my better judgement as a seasoned troll) one finds that there are actually conflicting opinions and many dissenting views on the relative success of individual episodes or the use of tropes and genres (I find that even having to descend to the use of such language in this letter most offensive) so that one cannot even make grand ex-cathedra statements about everyone agreeing with each other on this site.

    For example, I discover that in the discussion of the most recent episode there are posters who actually express reservations about the episode. And yet in reference to other episodes they express appreciation. As a hater and troll, who is used to one uniform position of unreasoned opposition, I find this most troubling.

    I write, therefore, to encourage haters and trolls to avoid this site, as exposure to it for any length of time may awaken an urge to engage in argument based on reason, and, moreover, to do it in a spirit of convivial and civilized discussion. This is not something that should be encouraged in the world of invective and bile that I associate with the internet.

    Yours truly
    Catherine Ursula Margaret Quat (Mrs)
    Mother (of five basset hounds)

    #44532
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @cumquat We don’t have a like button, but have a “like” anyway. I’m sure that will be something, as a troll or hater, that you will dislike. 🙂

    Many thanks for that great contribution. It is very much appreciated. I mean that.

    Please buy the Basset Hounds a treat.

    #44578
    Missy @missy

    Love basset Hounds – well *said like David Tennant* I like most dogs really.

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #44598
    Mirime @mirime

    Hello *waves* another new person here, though I have already posted twice so not completely new.

    Got pointed in this direction by The Guardian blog where I post as ilweran – I recognise some people from there, I decided to have a different name here as I was bored of being ilweran. Both names are Tolkien related in case anyone is wondering – I have a major Tolkien obsession.

    I think I must be one of the ‘missing millions’ that I’ve seen brought up when people over there have been talking about ratings as I have a little boy who is two and a half now who generally prevents me from watching ‘live’ – very frustrating given how good Doctor Who is at the moment (IMO of course 😉 ) and how much there is to think about and discuss.

    Loving the discussion on tarot related stuff, though I’m more of a collector than a reader and I seem to have erased a lot of what I did know to make room for baby stuff – or it could have something to do with the sleep deprivation and lack of time.

    Good to meet you all, looking forward to reading more bonkers theories – and maybe contributing 🙂

    #44603
    Arbutus @arbutus

    I missed this recent bit of chatter as I was avoiding the Forum until seeing Before the Flood, and by then of course, my Activity page was so filled with that that I never got this far.

    Welcome, @winston and @mirime! I too was a long time lurker, only breaking silence after the 50th anniversary, when a particularly impressive post impelled me to give it a like. I had never posted on a fan site before (still don’t, except here), but this one is fun as people are very clever and funny, as well as being polite to one another! I feel as if I have made some nice friends here.

    Winston, I live in Vancouver. A few years back, we made a memorable drive across Canada to Halifax and back, and saw a lot of Ontario in the process. I had not spent much time there prior to that, except around Toronto, so it was eye-opening. (Well, the whole trip was that.) Whereabouts is your country home?

    I have to add my praise to @purofilion’s about the various threads on this Forum. I have learned about much music, literature, and film through people’s posts. TV particularly, as I am not a big TV viewer anymore, and found some fun stuff through people’s recommendations. I had a blast last spring binge-watching Farscape on Netflix, and learned a great deal by so doing. I learned that “Oh, yotz” is an even more useful expletive than swearing by Almighty Zarquon. And I learned that lots of planets have an Australia.  🙂

     

    #44604
    Arbutus @arbutus

    Also, welcome @cumquat. Absolutely brilliant first post!  🙂

    @purofilion   Some of those forum rules I have seen before but a few are really strange. Don’t use replies or tags? So they actually don’t want conversations at all, which I thought was the point? And don’t use Latin is just sad. I used to be better at Latin than I am today, but if someone can use it, more power to them, I say!  🙂

    Your birthday party story gave me the giggles. Arbutus Jr. went to a party when he was around 8, where the mom had organized a Star Wars theme. She gave all the little boys toy light sabres and was really surprised when it all went pear shaped!

    #44606
    GothamCelt @gothamcelt

    Is it of any relevance that one of the collective nouns for a group of ravens is ‘ A Conspiracy’? Are we being led up the garden path because they KNOW we will read too much in to it? And as for a ban on Latin? Nemo dat quod non habet

    #44607
    Mirime @mirime

    Welcome, @winston and @mirime! I too was a long time lurker, only breaking silence after the 50th anniversary, when a particularly impressive post impelled me to give it a like. I had never posted on a fan site before (still don’t, except here), but this one is fun as people are very clever and funny, as well as being polite to one another! I feel as if I have made some nice friends here.

    Thank you @arbutus, it certainly seems likes one of the nicer corners of the internet here and I do try and stay in the friendlier bits these days. I have posted on forums (and newsgroups back in the 90’s) on other things I’m a fan of, but never Doctor Who – except for the Guardian. I’ve been watching Doctor Who all my life, my parents are fans so I got indoctrinated early, but since last year there has been so much to talk about and think about and nobody in real life to wave my arms at and go ‘but, but, but….’ or discuss my theory that all the Clara’s are Claricles (that’s what you call them here, right?), or comparisons between Waters of Mars and Kill the Moon and so on.

    #44612
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    There has been a bit of discussion about the next companion over the last few weeks. It occurred to me that one factor that might have an affect on the question of the next companion(s) may well be the new spin-off show “Class” that is going to be set at Coal Hill High School. Given Moffat’s desire to increasingly connect back to BG Who, it wouldn’t surprise me if he even went for a version on Ian, Barbara and Susan. Not a direct parallel, of course, but a version in some sense.

    Of course, one could argue that Clara is already that, but frankly I have always felt that Clara, as the schoolteacher at Coal Hill, was a bit clunky as a device, particularly the way she became a schoolteacher at Coal Hill after she had traveled through the Doctor’s timeline as a Claricle. Nor have the attempts to put schoolchildren into the Tardis been all that successful recently.

    Hmmm…as I continue to type I am becoming less sure. But before I talk myself out of my original suggestion, I still wonder if Coal Hill might, in some capacity, give us the next companion.

     

     

    #44623
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @lisa  @gothamcelt   Does anyone know why the groups of black birds might be given such interesting names (Conspiracy of Ravens, Murder of Crows)? There must be a reason, historically, presumably something to do with the negative image of those birds. But it would be interesting to know more about how it came about.

    @mirime     Yes, same here exactly. I came to the show as a young adult, late in the Tom Baker era, and had a roommate that I watched with back then. But nowadays, I am alone in my fandom, except for this great place. I’d love to hear more of your thoughts about Waters of Mars and Kill the Moon!

    @blenkinsopthebrave     It is also possible (although considerably less interesting as a theory) that the Coal Hill School reference was put in place for the 50th (it worked so well in that opening scene!) and simply retained throughout Series 8 because it was a useful setting for Clara.

    Incidentally, I wonder, if Clara is indeed a Bootstrap Paradox, where does that leave Dad and Grandma? Unless it is Clara’s mother who is actually the paradox? Or am I just confusing things?

    #44624
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @arbutus

    Incidentally, I wonder, if Clara is indeed a Bootstrap Paradox, where does that leave Dad and Grandma? Unless it is Clara’s mother who is actually the paradox? Or am I just confusing things?

    Well, perhaps just a little bit!

    I am finding it difficult to get my head around the various, and seemingly increasingly convoluted, theories about Clara’s end. Particularly since I have never quite understood Clara’s beginning. The one theory about her end I quite like is that of @jphamlore, that she will end up back in the Nethersphere with Danny. The darkness of Danny’s death was about as dark as I think she deserves. To have her come to a dark end as well seems just a bit too cruel. But to have her “die” by going to the Nethersphere, and be reunited with Danny not only is in keeping with her many previous deaths as a Claricle, and not only goes back to her walking past her own grave, but keeps her “out there” somewhere, together with Danny again.

    I know…what an appallingly rank sentimentalist I am! But there you go.

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