Oxygen

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This topic contains 185 replies, has 40 voices, and was last updated by  Missy 2 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #57455
    Hillforest @hillforest
    #57456
    MissRori @missrori

    @miapatrick: Yes, the path of good intentions may not lead to Hell, but it is easily as perilous!  Perhaps it leads to Heaven, but that might also just prove the Doctor’s theory that “Hell is just Heaven for bad people.”  😉

    #57457
    Cath Annabel @cathannabel

    @phaseshift @Thane15 plus any other Bowie spotters – apart from the visual references to Space Oddity (floating round the tin can, etc) I didn’t pick up anything in the script, but maybe another watch will reveal something.  I haven’t spotted anything in Thin Ice either, so unless I’ve missed that too, we have the eye thing in The Pilot, ‘we’re happy, hope you’re happy too’ in Smile, and the quick glimpse of Heroes in the 1977 housemates’ crate in Knock Knock.  Too many to be random, certainly, but probably better to have them sprinkled subtly through the series rather than shoe-horned in to every episode?

    Liked the twist on the space zombies and the further development of the theme about capitalism – people as fodder for the corporate machine (literal in the case of the fertiliser, and the food for the captive sea beast, more metaphorical in the space station).

    #57459
    Anonymous @

    Musings on rewatch:

    • The Doctor’s comical “Helloooo” to the first suit victim he encounters will never, ever get old.
    • Speaking of whom, is it just a coincidence that said suit victim, in an episode with more than a passing resemblance to Alien, bears an uncanny resemblance to Lance Henrikson?
    • The direction in this episode is the best I can recall from any season. Most people would be tempted to make the spacewalk zombie laser shootout a major set piece. Here it’s an almost hallucinatory moment of confusion in the companion’s limited but imperilled subjective experience.
    • I don’t know if anyone’s already noted this, but in the final scene, when Nardole is giving the Doctor his telling off, he says: “What if you’d died out there? What happens to your precious Earth then? You need to be ready when that door opens.” It could be that Nardole is talking generally about the Earth’s future survival chances without the Doctor to protect it, but that third sentence is overwhelmingly suggesting that whatever is in the vault is a threat to Earth’s safety. I was leaning more toward Simm Master than another Doctor incarnation being in the vault and that pretty much confirms it for me.
    #57461
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Revealed: Who’s really in the vault…!

    Peter Capaldi lookalike hunted by cops

    doppel

    #57462
    wolfweed @wolfweed

     

    nod to HAL

    A nod to HAL?

    #57463
    Redlemons @redlemons

    Loved it! Best episode yet! The suits, corporation, taxes, racism,  scarey for all of us. Zombie fun.  Bill calling out to mum. This couldn’t have been done any better.

    “What you get killed out there? What happens to your precious Earth than? “

    #57464
    MissRori @missrori

    @morpho  Hmm.  If the Doctor needs to be ready when that door opens, then that suggests the Vault has been placed on Earth to open itself and release its prisoner at a certain time.  The Doctor, perhaps, is the mediator between the prisoner and humanity?…But that’s for next week!  😉

    #57465
    Erfan Ostadi @theuncomingstorm

    A very fine episode at its core, but ultimately pushing too hard in using the concept (cruelty of space and all that) to criticize society. Apart from that, everything was brilliant, from the scripts and dialogues to the direction and production values. Now off to some Moffat awesomeness next week!

    #57466
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    We need to reconcile Nardole’s statement in this episode about “when that door opens” with the knowledge that the Doctor has been into the vault with Chinese food in the previous episode, and the knowledge that he has been guarding the vault for 50 years or more.

    This leads me to speculate that what(who)ever is in the vault has been growing and the vault will only open when the vault needs to open.

    #57467
    MissRori @missrori

    @blenkinsopthebrave  I was wondering about that myself.  Your theory seems sound.  🙂

    I’m definitely going to be in a lather of nerves these next few weeks as this ball of wool starts unspooling!  My autistic brain is happy for distractions from the woes of the real world, but sometimes it’s one kind of stress traded for another.  Let me be brave…   😉

    #57468
    Anonymous @

    @missrori – It could be that, knowing he has to be stuck somewhere for decades waiting for the vault to open, he chose to hide it on his favourite stomping ground.

    @blenkinsopthebrave – The Doctor made sure to get rid of Nardole before he brought Mexican takeaway into the vault. Likely Nardole doesn’t know the vault has already been opened. Likely too that it shouldn’t have been opened but for a curious, impatient control freak.

    #57469
    Anonymous @

    P.S. Nardole also referred to the occupant of the vault as “our friend”. Who Nardole’s friends are, besides the Doctor, I don’t know, but we do know one childhood friend of the Doctor’s…

    #57471
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Who to trust? Who to trust?

    I return to what was said in week 1. Nardole is an anagram of Leonard. Saint Leonard is the patron saint of prisoners.

    nestor

    Nardole is a bit like Nestor in ‘Tintin’. He’s a butler who used to work for nefarious characters…

    So who do we trust? The Dr or Nardole? Has the Dr told Nardole the truth? The dialogue suggests not. Or is Nardole dodgy? Why does a humanoid head on an android body need oxygen? (We already went through  Toiletgate…) And he also revealed he changed his face to go on the run…!?!

    There still exists the possibility that Nardole thinks it’s a ‘baddie’ in the vault because the Dr lied & it’s actually really a ‘goodie’ (or something)… (as was also mentioned week 1)

    #57472
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    The Daily Express is currently running a story saying the interweb is convinced that Missy is Bill’s mum (because one person had the theory).

    Other contenders are:

    River Song is Bill’s mum

    Susan is Bill’s mum & that Missy is her Grandma (i.e. Missy is Susan’s mum)

    (I’m tempted to play the ‘Sons & Daughters’ theme tune again…)

    ff

    I’m surprised we’ve not had the Dr’s (as yet unmet by us) biological child/&/or Jenny…

    My own familial preference would be Missy’s daughter is in the vault (& we haven’t met her yet)…

    #57473
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    More random (and probably incoherent) thoughts on the vault, the regeneration, and Moffat’s farewell.

    The idea that Moffat will employ the bootstrap paradox keeps nagging at me. For those of you who remember Babylon 5, there was recurring reference to the legendary Minbari leader Valen, who, a thousand years before, defeated the Shadows and was “a Minbari not born of Minbari”. It was ultimately revealed that the human Commander of Babylon 5, Jeffrey Sinclair, had travelled back in time and been reborn as the Minbari, Valen.

    Could there be something similar at play here? Could Moffat somehow tie the centrality of Earth to the show, the references to the half-human lineage of the 8th Doctor, hell, maybe even the Cushing Doctor(!) into the resolution of what’s in the vault, the Capaldi Doctor’s regeneration, and Moffat’s farewell to the show?

    Well, perhaps not. But I don’t believe Moffat will hang up his hat without pulling off something quite audacious.

    #57474
    lisa @lisa

    Totally the  best episode of this season so far!

    Never been a big fan of zombie stuff but the politics in this story made it for me.  An anti-utopia

    in space.

    Really like seeing more of Nardole   but not so sure about the Doctor’s not seeing though!

    We have a wounded Doctor and I just keep wondering  that the next time  the Doctor

    delivers the  takeout  to the vault whoever it is that’s in there will obviously want to take advantage ?

     

     

    #57475
    AlexWho @alexwho

    Definately the best of the season so far. The previous episodes were just ok.

    It reminds me of Sleep No More: extreme capitalism, spooky space station, and zombies/sandmen. Obviously this was much better executed.

    I think Oxygen will be on the Top 10 of the 12th Doctor’s best stories 🙂

    #57477
    soundworld @soundworld

    Hello everyone, i’m glad to be back. (Waves at you especially thane and puro)

    I’ve been lurking the previous threads of this series, playing endless catch-up (I seem to be experiencing some issues with <ahem> time just now).

    That was fabulous. I have to admit that in the first few minutes I was thinking ‘Zombies? Really? ‘ As it turns out, the suit explanation was very plausible, terrifyingly plausible. I love the metaphor of ‘the (corporate) suits will kill you…’

    It also fits into the overall arc which you have identified of things being freed from shackles in some form or other – the lines at the finish where the Doctor explains how this led to the revolution which freed humanity from extreme capitalism.

    Now onto the Doctor’s blindness. An issue which resonates with me just now – in the last 6 months I’ve had an eye condition which currently gives me about 20% vision in my left eye, and that’s a very blurred 20% – hopefully not permanent. (How often have I said on this forum how much the Doctor’s experience resonates with my life…?)

    Please bear with me on this exploration. I’m familiar with some Native American teaching stories, which are all animal-based, but in which everything is totally symbolic of human experience and consciousness.  A favourite concerns ‘Jumping Mouse’, a mouse who is very inquisitive, and jumps higher in order to see more of the world – and of course lands in trouble.  (Mouse represents people who typically are into everything – so long as its in front of their nose – and can’t see beyond that, forever inquisitive).  In the course of the story, he meets a sick wolf, dying, who laments that only the ey6e of a mouse can save him.  Mouse gives up his eye – and becomes semi blind, in order to save this other creature.  In other words, he gives up his old way of perceiving things, to serve the greater good of another’s welfare, and in doing so develops a new perspective.  He grows in conciousness.  By the end of the story, having given away both eyes, he is swooped upon and seized by eagle – and becomes eagle, representing somebody who sees the bigger picture from above.

    I sense parallels… <span class=”useratname”>@fivefaces</span> you mentioned a theme of transcending existing consciousness, which I think is what I have just described.

    #57479
    soundworld @soundworld

    So the question becomes – what is it that the doctor might need to develop  a new perspective on? (Its in the vault!)

    #57480
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @wolfweed–

    Why does a humanoid head on an android body need oxygen? (We already went through  Toiletgate…) And he also revealed he changed his face to go on the run…!?!

    I did see someone speculate on DoG that Nardole could in fact be this fellow

    I can’t begin to express how pleased that would make me.

    @blenknisopthebrave

    Could there be something similar at play here? Could Moffat somehow tie the centrality of Earth to the show, the references to the half-human lineage of the 8th Doctor, hell, maybe even the Cushing Doctor(!) into the resolution of what’s in the vault, the Capaldi Doctor’s regeneration, and Moffat’s farewell to the show?

    That would also be excellent. Especially the idea of tying in the Cushing Doctor. It’s the sort of loose end that I’d imagine would nag at SM and I wouldn’t put it past him to try and tie it up before he moves on.

    Further thoughts.

    Like the other episodes of this series, this has done a great job of fusing BG and AG Who — another example of how I think SM does actually listen to his critics and tries to accommodate them. It had the definite feel of a BG gap episode — The Ark in Space and The Invisible Enemy springing to mind.

    As I said above, this series is very much reminding me of the Hinchcliffe/Holmes years and seems to have taken the approach of taking cinematic horror tropes and running them through a Who filter but whereas H&H were taking their cues (largely) from Hammer, SM and co have been plundering more modern horror sources — Knock Knock very much played on ‘cabin in the woods’ horror (right down to the person-eating tree), The Pilot riffed on Ringu and this week had a definite vibe of Alien and Gravity but also games like Dead Space and Mass Effect.

    Design-wise it knocked it out of the park too. The station CGI was first class and the general look of the interiors, while clearly modelled on Alien, also had a BG vibe to them too — the suits were great and I especially loved the helmets, which had a nice retro feel to them. I could easily imagine seeing Tom Baker or even Pertwee in one of those suits.

    And yet for all the retro styling, it didn’t feel too BG-shonky. This is the first example, I think, where I was totally sold on the characters actually being in space and on a space station. BG examples were obviously working within budget constrictions but AG examples like 42 and Sleep No More didn’t quite convince either. Or at least not in the way that this set design did.

    As for the blindness — it’s a very interesting turn of events. I think I agree with whoever said above that what we’re going to see is a ‘long regeneration’, perhaps with a Doctor who is going to take an increased physical beating over a number of stories.

    #57481
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Okay – I’ve got it!

    Nardole is not really Nardole. The real Nardole is in the vault.

    The fake Nardole (since ep 1) is the Dr’s niece Louise (from Daleks’ Invasion Earth 2150AD) who is Missy’s daughter & also the Meddling Monk turned evil (& possibly also a shape-shifting penguin criminal)…

    louise

    Howzat?!

     

    #57483
    Kharis @kharis

    @wolfweed Do love the bonkerizing.

    Can’t help but notice that most people on this forum really liked this episode, which makes me feel awkward to admit I didn’t really enjoy it.  I admire the themes and metaphors and the concept of a blind Doctor, but was still struggling to enjoy this episode.

    After reading all the comments on the Forum I feel like a freak to be honest, because I had categorized this episode with ’42’ and ‘Sleep no More’ where I appreciated some of the concepts and creativity, but at the same time was bored out of my mind. ‘Oxygen’ is on my list of 5 Doctor Who episodes I will probably not bother watching again because I’m annoyed I already spent an hour on them.

    Though, very glad other people I respect on this Forum enjoyed it.  It’s always nice to hear rave reviews because it makes me feel secure that the show will have good enough ratings to keep going on into the future.

    #57486
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @kharis  It can be difficult to fly in the face of popular opinion or just admit to not liking an episode. There should be no shame though. Nor need there be  a reason. There’s often no logic to what we will or won’t forgive what & why…

    The general consensus is that these are the best episodes in a long time, they’re solid, a consistent run. Darker… more real… less timey-wimey-crimey. The other type of response online seems to be pure hatred of it all (the worst ever)…

    For all an episode’s strengths there will be things that are lacking.

    A sense of rave reviews does not translate into good viewing figures. In the UK where the show is produced, the ratings are tanking. Worldwide figures are astonishing though – 100 million or so tune in. So the programme is probably safe but I’m afraid the average person in the UK will be thinking ‘That’s that show nobody watches any more. It must not be good like they said it was when David Tennant was in it. I’m off to watch Simon Cowell.’…         Not so thrilling for the Beeb.

    Hopefully you’ll enjoy the next one…

     

     

     

     

    #57489
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    It’s weird…

    The blindness thing is verging very much on the ‘Crass Gimmick’. Everyone online is going OMG! OMG!- You can’t do that! You just can’t do that! OMG!

    But if you genuinely buy into it, as our character’s happenstance, it can be truly upsetting…

    blind

    #57490
    AlexWho @alexwho

    @soundworld

    I found your story of the mouse from native-american mythology fascinating! I don’t know if you are familiar with the DUNE series by Frank Herbert. In book 2, Dune Messiah, Paul Muad’Dib is struck blind by a bomb explosion but sees nevertheless with his conciouness. In the first book, he adopted the name Muad’Dib from the language of the planet and it refers to a jumping desert mouse native to his new homeworld.

    I’m glad I know this story now. Thank You.

     

    #57491
    AlexWho @alexwho

    Food for Thought:

    I can’t help but thinking that the line “fighting the suits” was a shot at the BBC brass; that is if you buy into the rumors about what they want from the incoming show-runner Chris Chibnall. Supposedly the BBC higher-ups want a return to the formula of 10th and 11th tenure of a “young dashing leading man and a female companion.” Presumably to push merchandise sales and get younger viewers again (they are convinced young fans have left) and an older version of the Time Lord doesn’t fit into the picture.

    In that sense, Peter Capaldi’s Doctor is up against the suits too. Anyone else felt that? Any thoughts on “fighting the suits?”

    #57492
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @alexwho – (I have insomnia! – So…)

    Prediction: The ghosts of Pip & Jane Baker will be enlisted by ‘The Suits’ to cajole Chibbers into making series 11 populist Dr Who for 3 year olds.

    pnj

    Chibber’s dreams of an even more adult Dr Who (see inferred rape of Nefertiti a la’ ‘The Keys of Marinus’ or ‘The Time Meddler’) will be dashed, making it a bit of a waste of time anointing him Showrunner…..

    #57493
    myth96 @myth96

    I enjoyed the anti-capitalist undertones throughout. And that ending was crazy! I wonder how long he’ll stay that way. What if his next regeneration is triggered intentionally to restore his vision? Like he goes mad without his sight (and perhaps other things happen to him as well) and he forces himself/is forced to regenerate to repair his sight.

    However it works out, I’m really going to miss Capaldi. He’s quickly become one of my favorites. 🙁

    #57495
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @wolfweed

    Howzat?!

    I raise my glass to you…

    #57496
    RorySmith @rorysmith

    @wolfweed

    I am beginning to suspect Nardole has sold out to whoever is in the vault. The Doctor is probably lying about being blind for this very reason. Please don’t let it be the Master in there. We deserve a giant surprise. Maybe David Tennant as the Valeyard. Yep that would blow my mind. I’m still suspicious of the Doctor being the real thing though. He’s been way too cocky for his own good.

    #57501
    Anonymous @

    @wolfweed @rorysmith

    I agree with the idea of Nardole selling out too -in episode 2, I wondered if he’s become a tad….sinister. Now, with his authoritarian behaviour, I’m leaning more to this idea. Your theories are splendiferous!

    @kharis

    I totally get where you’re coming from. No-one is going to criticise you here because it didn’t “do it for you.”

    Except, me, Puro, cause, you know, you’re like, totally, dead to me now!  😀

    Obviously I kid!

    Any political themes were well handled and I would disagree (politely) with @theuncomingstorm that any criticism of society as dovetailed in, was perceptively directed and I’d  support Vaclav Havel’s opinion: “All society must be subject to criticism all of the time. Without criticism of capitalism, tyranny descends.”

    Also @alexwho -really? You thought the earlier ones were just OK? Even The Pilot and Thin Ice? That’s interesting & I understand that. I see just how well this episode resonated with …itself.. Hard to explain, but the sci-fi story was  original and the directing as Jim points out was top notch. Totally on board with the idea of “the BBC brass and the suits” -no wonder there were some negative comments on the Graun, which, by and large, I scan very quickly to avoid having a stroke.

    But @kharis I also found the initial banter with Nardole at the beginning of the episode to be a little cringy -for me. I’d also argue that whilst every episode thus far has been seen as uniformly ‘great’ (as seasons go -because there were duds in 8, 9 and even Season 5/6) I do feel that it doesn’t have the ‘gasp’ factor that Season 8/9 did -at least for me. But that’s just Thane’s and mine own opinion.

    @morpho Splendid! I also thought of Henrickson. I was finger jabbing the telly and saying “see, see, look!” but I was alone in this at home. I also think the fighting, as you said, was brilliantly handled in that hallucinogenic manner.

    In the past the Doctor, when asked “who are you?” often answered, “I am the man who will save your lives and all the lives on this planet. I’m a TL, from Gallifrey in the  bla from the bla” but Moffat’s reduced the statement to:   “I’m the man who will help you and when I’m gone you’ll wonder who I was” which is smoother, less “yes!! Fist pumping, hurrah!!!” from the RTD era (I didn’t mind it, but I prefer a nuanced attitude).

    I’m leaning heavily to it being a Doctor in the vault. A doctor could affect the entire future of earth as would the Master. Still wondering how Bill is connected to the story beyond what we now know. Her mention of mum in her “head” during Christmas and then again in Knock Knock makes me wonder.  As ‘zombie Bill’ enters, the Doctor says: “Of course it’s Bill. Me and Bill have a thing,  fate and me.”…..-now, that’s an interesting comment, isn’t it??

    @soundworld -great theories!  I love your access to the indigenous story; it sent up some ‘brain flares’ with respect to our own indigenous Australian and Torres Strait Islander Dreaming legends. I must check on those…

    he gives up his old way of perceiving things, to serve the greater good of another’s welfare, and in doing so develops a new perspective.  He grows in consciousness…

    @jimthefish on this, absolutely, that was my feeling too.

    …but whereas H&H were taking their cues (largely) from Hammer, SM and co have been plundering more modern horror sources — Knock Knock very much played on ‘cabin in the woods’ horror (right down to the person-eating tree), The Pilot riffed on Ringu and this week had a definite vibe of Alien and Gravity but also games like Dead Space and Mass Effect.

    Design-wise it knocked it out of the park too. The station CGI was first class and the general look of the interiors, while clearly modelled on Alien, also had a BG vibe to them too — the suits were great…

    It being Mother’s Day during airing, I liked the soon- to- be -Zombified astronaut saying “I would love to have your baby” and the reference to ‘Mum, Mum” by Bill as events and fear overwhelmed her. It was a lovely touch, actually. And meant more on re-watch on that particular day in the calendar. Commercialism aside -which being a theme in the episode: also definitely in Thin Ice, Knock Knock (rentals, Estate Agents, students strapped for $..), Smile but not in The Pilot (unless it was under the subject of universities and rising costs).

    So is commercialism a thing for this series? Considering the times, I think so.

    For theories I may dwell on the Spoilers thread…. 🙂

    Much love to all,

    Puro and Thane

    #57502
    ichabod @ichabod

    @missrori  Of course it’s sad but beautiful. That’s practically a theme of Capaldi’s tenure

    Mmm, yes!

    And what will Bill do if/when she finds out he’s still blind because he saved her?

    Ow, yes!  That’s got to be a tough one for her.  He, of course, will make light of it (sorry, sorry . . . .)!

    #57503
    Anonymous @

    @wolfweed

    on the blindness, makes me think of Austerity measures in the UK. Alive? Can stand up? No? Can sit down? Then WORK, no matter what, no matter how….

    Of course, any current Graun readers of a particular flavour will say “out, out” and “work work” ….which leads to cybermen? Maybe.

    Puro

    #57507
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    More secrets revealed through the wonders of graphic design…

    another Matthew Clark interview

    section 12

    Also of note – Matt Lucas improvised the line ‘Some of my best friends are bluish’…

    And Jamie M had the Dr unblind by the end of the episode but Moffat kept it running…

    #57510
    MissRori @missrori

    @wolfweed  Awwww, Moffat!  😀

    I just thought of this last night: The poor Doctor — he showed his true face to the universe and did the right thing…and he ended up blind for it.  Poked in the eyes if you will!  😀

    #57511
    janetteB @janetteb

    AT last. It has been a frustrating two days waiting to watch was was clearly a “corker” of an episode. Before plunging into the comments a few thoughts. Once again humans as the “baddies” and the dangers of AI are two dominant themes, as well as the evils of capitalism. (loved that) Yes if corporations could charge for oxygen they would.

    I wonder if the Doctor will stay blind and gradually become more damaged thus leading into regeneration rather than it being the result of a sudden injury.

    Not convinced that he has told Nardole the truth as to the danger posed by what is in the vault. It might be something or someone whom he is protecting or he might have grossly exaggerated the danger for some devious, Doctorish purpose known as yet only to himself.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #57512
    wolfweed @wolfweed
    #57514
    MissRori @missrori

    @janetteb  I agree, there’s more to the Doctor’s prisoner than he’s letting on.  We’ll find out soon enough!  😉

    While it would be interesting to see the Doctor get sicker and sicker over the remainder of the season and the Xmas show, I think it would be too much of a downer.  The Series 10’s trailers hints don’t help.

    #57516
    janetteB @janetteb

    Back after reading the comments thus far. I am rather fond of the idea that it is Missy’s daughter in the vault but that led to another possibility, it might be the President’s daughter in the vault. The Doctor claimed to have stolen her. I suspect after this episode that who ever it is he/she is not nearly as dangerous as the Doctor would have Nardole believe though that banging on the door in the previous episode did sound ominous.

    Cheers

    Janette

     

    #57518
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Today’s bonkerisation:

    Who’s in the vault?

    The righteous fan…

    angry gif

    #57519

    @wolfweed

    I would be so awesome is he managed a massive leg-pull of the ARSE-laden Tendency,

    #57520
    Frobisher @frobisher

    I would love it if Nardole turned out to be Frobisher. A CG penguin to hang out with the Doctor? Yes please!

     

    @janetteb

    Could the President’s daughter (presumably the daughter of Rassilon) and Missy’s daughter be one and the same? Will we find out what happens to cause the Doctor to give Missy that brooch?

    #57521
    Arbutus @arbutus

    Well, everyone has about covered my reactions to this. I am really loving Capaldi in this series. Everything somehow feels less “over-the-top” than it has often felt. I suppose, as we make our way toward the finale, that this will change, which is okay. But the energy, passion, and wit of this Doctor continue!

    One thing of note for me: the opening sequence was almost too effective! I have a particular issue with scenes built around breathlessness, when my own lungs tend to stop working in sympathy. This scene was so physically uncomfortable that I almost didn’t think I could keep watching. Then it did a complete about face, and I realized that the immediate threat wasn’t asphyxiation, but zombies! It did make me laugh.

    I loved the Doctor’s lecture, and the quick skyward glance when Nardole accused him of “missing space”. I thought Nardole was used very effectively throughout. And after an inspiring speech, the sudden lightening of the Doctor’s tone when he said, “We’re fighting the suits.”  🙂 There were a lot of lines and moments throughout. I’m hoping to make time for a rewatch this week, so I can catch some of them.

    #57522
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    DOCTOR: You know what’s wrong with this universe? Believe me, I’ve looked into it. Everyone says it’s not their fault. Well, yes, it is. All of it. It’s all your fault. So, what are you going to do about it? 

    Makes me think of this…

    complicit

    I’m more of the opinion that people are daft brainwashed sheepoids (but you’re not allowed to say that as it’s offensive to daft people)…

    #57523
    MissRori @missrori

    @ichabod  When Bill finds out what happened to his eyes she’ll be so sad…but perhaps she will be the one who heals him!

    Remember the story of “Rapunzel”?  Maybe it will be like that.  😉

    #57524
    Whisht @whisht

    @wolfweed – yes, I was struck by that from the Doctor too.
    And agreed with him – we are responsible for either what’s happening or what’s not happening.
    Irrespective of our intelligence, decision-making abilities, mendacity of people, the way capitalism creates one emergent behaviour through advertising that results in ‘fake news’ being proliferated through social networks whose ‘truthiness’ is higher due to it being your friends’ ‘sending’ you this ‘news’ yet leading to unintended results….

    {ahem}

    (all of which he says sheepishoidly).

    ;¬)

    Now wolfweed you swine – you’ve managed to link me to a site about typography in sci-fi !!
    arrrrggggggghhhhhh that’s a few nights gone!!

    #57526
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @wolfweed — that’s some first-class bonkerising there and I’m with @pedant in that the vault should contain one of the ARSE-laden. Maybe there’s a sheep of the truculent kind in there. Good work with the linkage too. Some interesting stuff there.

    On the politics, I’m utterly bemused when you see on FB, Twitter and the The Graun bitching about the politics, how it has no place in Who, how it spoiled the episode yadda yadda. It was the same with the Zygon two-parter last year too. Has there ever been a time when Who has not had a political edge? I mean, The Daleks is a pretty unambiguous Cold War parable when you get down to it.

    It also struck me recently that the Doctor’s probably overdue a return visit to Peladon, what with Brexit and everything.

    @kharis — I wouldn’t be too anxious about not liking the episode. Not everything is going to work for everybody. You’ll remember @bluesqueakpip‘s ambivalence about Face the Raven last year. And I’m personally slightly taken aback at all the love for Tennant’s final run that I’ve been seeing online over the past couple of weeks because I’ve frankly always felt it was a bit ‘meh’. But the joy of Who is that it’s such a pliable format. It’s always changing and evolving and there’s always a surprise along in a minute.

    Oh, and thanks for the spotify link @pedant. I can see that’s going to end up being a massive timesink.

    #57527

    Couple of random observations after 2nd watch:

    1. There was very Terminator vibe to the score at one point, when they were trying to get to the survivors;

    2. I think people may be over-reading Nardole. He is a latter day Parker from Thunderbirds – has a certain skill set that the Doc (and River) sees as useful. It isn’t that new a trope, but fun when done well (as Lucas is doing it).

    #57528
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @pedant– I agree that there’s unlikely to be any big secret behind Nardole. But at the same time, over-reading is kind of what we’re here for….

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