S33 (7) 13 – Nightmare in Silver

Home Forums Episodes The Eleventh Doctor S33 (7) 13 – Nightmare in Silver

This topic contains 522 replies, has 42 voices, and was last updated by  Bluesqueakpip 6 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #9021
    ardaraith @ardaraith

    Oops! Sorry @scaryb – I submitted that prematurely. I posted the prequel to Asylum – whose themes I continue to neglect when theorising.

    #9022
    CraigNixon @craignixon

    Bah. Cricket talk and I’m not here!

     

    The Vampire Monster in RoA – Harold Larwood. This is how Australia and Lords (after the fact) saw him?

    Everything that is happening is an attack on the Doctor- Bodyline?

     

    #9023
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Thought Mr Clever was a bit of a naff name

    It’s another story (coffee break!) -‘Mr Clever’ is in the Mr Men series by Roger Hargreaves.

    Mr Clever is, obviously, very clever, but a bit smug and thinks he’s better than everyone else because of his great intelligence. However, he can’t cook, tell jokes, or see into the future. Sorry about the spoilers if you haven’t yet read the giant work of literature that is ‘Mr Men’ 🙂

    #9024
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @ardaraith You did indeed, and many thanks for it, I’d missed it.

    While I’d agree that key plot points unlikely to be hidden in a prequel, rather than main show, it underlines a lot of the main things we’ve been discussing and which do occur in the main show – Dr not in control, multiple realities, a Big Bad who’s in control of the Dr’s mind.

    There was also a minisode many months, possibly years(!) ago (but still Smith), possibly around Silence* time, where there was a simulated broadcast of the Dr lost somewhere he didn’t recognise and appealing for help. I don’t remember that fitting in with anything we’ve seen since, until now.

    *I don’t see Moff not bringing back the Silence, either in finale (tho might be a bit crowded. Except… if River’s coming back, who’s had experience of them…) or the 50th

    #9025
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @bluesqueakpip LOL @Mr Men ref. I’m definitely not Mrs Clever this morning 🙂

    PS am over my prequel fears; the mass ending-spoilers posted by you and others cured my paranoia 😉 (Ruined my future reading of classics such as the bible and Romeo and Juliet, but I can live with that)

    #9026
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    where there was a simulated broadcast of the Dr lost somewhere he didn’t recognise and appealing for help

    Round about the same time there was also that very odd post credit shot of a skeleton hand clutching a sonic screwdriver.

    Must. Do. Some. Work.

    #9027
    SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe

    @bluesqueakpip she’s Doctor Who – the programme

    I quite like that one! Dying from a fall in ratings and people thinking they were better than it? Present still running, being clever, staving off the GI/Mr Clever masses. Future? Who knows.

    Too meta?

    Dark Doctor theory; how does the Valeyard fit into things then? I thought the Cyberplanner was emotional as (A) it’s somewhat independent from being, well, the planner/thinker or (B) the influence of The Doctor – an unknown – as some suggest he may have affected GI.

    #9028
    Anonymous @

    I concur with @scaryb. @blenkinsopthebrave‘s cricket theory is a non-starter owing to the Moff being Scottish. @scaryb‘s point about the ‘gap’ in the Cyber flashbacks is interesting too. I must look out for that on a rewatch.

    However, I’m loving the It’s A Wonderful Life concept with Clara Oswin Oswald as Clarence Oddbody. And it also sounds like something Moffatt would do. I could also believe that maybe the concept of the anniversary special would be something like a riff on said movie.

    @osakahatter (I think) — I’m sure Matt would get his farewell moment, even if he turned evil. I think it would probably go something like season 2 of Buffy (or as someone said (ScaryB? It’s getting quite confusing now) possibly season 6 of the same show. Besides I personally hated that extended ‘farewell tour’. I thought it was indulgent and overlong and lessened the impact of the regeneration when it finally came (I was sitting there thinking ‘God, just regenerate already…’)

    #9029
    Pufferfish @pufferfish

    @IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @jimthefish

    I’ve been nursing that theory for quite some time. From another thread in another place, which I posted to in January:

    Well, the angel in It’s A Wonderful Life *was* Clarence. The feminine of Clarence is Clara.

    It’s A Wonderful Life was about a man who wishes he never existed, who gets to see how his wish plays…

    Other bonkers theorising:

    Who created the Weeping Angels? The Doctor, either by accident or on purpose? Because it must be called the Medusa Cascade for a reason to do with the myth. Or, both the Silents and the WAs are created by Omega as a ladder to returning to the matter universe, because they both steal time/memory/potential. If Moffat keeps telling people to go back to the beginning, *which* beginning?

    Something that’s nagged at me since The Eleventh Hour, which I have NEVER seen discussed: the possibility of two Doctors, but not for the blue/red tie reason (although that bonkers theory is VERY entertaining). It’s because, in Leadworth hospital, there is a patient behind a curtain in the big ward where all the visible patients sit up and call for the Doctor. The concealed patient is never shown and it’s as if the staff have no perception of him/her. What was the line in the Wizard of Oz? “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.”

     

    #9030
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @satsumajoe

    @bluesqueakpipshe’s Doctor Who – the programme

    I quite like that one! Dying from a fall in ratings and people thinking they were better than it? Present still running, being clever, staving off the GI/Mr Clever masses. Future? Who knows.

    That’s just the tip of the iceberg re that theory. BSP’s got massive list of coincidental dates, parallels etc from every episode in series 7.2 – I’m completely convinced about this on a meta level at the very least.

    #9032
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @jimthefish. The cricket theory was..a joke. Sorry. Colonial humour.

    Off to bed.

    #9033
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @blemkinsopthebrave

    The cricket theory was..a joke. Sorry. Colonial humour.

    Ha! We don’t do cricket but we do do humour 🙂

    (Cricket theory probably not quite bonkers enough… only gets to extreme-bobbins level, I think)

    #9034
    Anonymous @

    @blenkinsopthebrave  and @scaryb

    We don’t do cricket but we do do humour 

    Indeed, though when you think about it, introducing the Krikkitmen for the Anniversary would be a nice nod to Douglas Adams….

    #9035
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Besides I personally hated that extended ‘farewell tour’

    @jimthefish – One of the reasons I’d like there to be a ‘Dark Eleven’ is that it’d retcon that whole bloody ‘Farewell Tour’. I can get Ten’s discovery that he can face imminent death bravely but can’t cope with knowing he’s dying in advance. But, like you, I was going “will you just f***ing regenerate!” by the time we were halfway through the ‘tour’.

    But if Ten knows his next regeneration is going to destroy everything he is, then the Farewell Tour makes much more sense. It becomes an “I want you to remember me the way I was” thing.

    #9036
    SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe

    @scaryb @bluesqueakpip Oh go on then! I did have a related-ish one (only with much less evidence) that she’s time. His time. From being born behind a clock to her other names – divine friend and ruler of the lonely god (who is, at the very least, called Os aka Theta Sigma)? That, and “I’m the boss”. As he once said “I can run away from anything I like. Time is not the boss of me”.

    Yeah, probably a stretch! Oh well.

    #9037
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

     BSP’s got massive list of coincidental dates, parallels etc from every episode in series 7.2

    Yup. If the theory survives the finale, I can feel a very long blog post coming on… 😀

    #9039
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Oh, and if Clara is Doctor Who – the programme – we’re going to get infinite versions of Clara (as well as several versions of The Doctor) as we move into the Interregnum/Time War II.

    #9049
    OsakaHatter @osakahatter

    @jimthefish

    @osakahatter (I think) — I’m sure Matt would get his farewell moment, even if he turned evil. I think it would probably go something like season 2 of Buffy (or as someone said (ScaryB? It’s getting quite confusing now) possibly season 6 of the same show. Besides I personally hated that extended ‘farewell tour’. I thought it was indulgent and overlong and lessened the impact of the regeneration when it finally came (I was sitting there thinking ‘God, just regenerate already…’)

    No, wasn’t me.  I’m with you on the farewell tour, thought it lessened the impact of tens departure. I’m harsh, I think they should have gotten Ken Loach to direct it.  Ten would have set out for his reward, but the TARDIS would have started playing up again and materialized in Jackie’s flat, just after everyone had gone out for New Years Eve.  Rose would have been about to go back for something, but changed her mind.  The Doctor ends up regenerating alone at the kitchen sink as Jackie and Rose disappear into the snow.

    I do like @bluesqueakpip ‘s suggestion that a dark doctor could retcon the whole thing because there would be a damn good reason for him not wanting to go.

    Also, it was me that nicked the end of Buffy Season 6 for a theory, with the Doctor doing a Willow.  Didn’t Xander keep hold of a bit of crayon from when he first met Willow?  A bit like Clara’s leaf?  I’m grasping now.  I prefer the It’s A Wonderful Life idea.

     

    #9050
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @bluesqueakpip re blog – you should. And agree re infinite Claras – she also has to be the means by which he regains his memories – the repository in some way.

    #9056
    OsakaHatter @osakahatter

    @pedant

    Of course, every time a bell (of St John?) rings and angel wins its wings….

    And getting your wings being slang for learning to fly, perhaps a reason why Clara has been getting lessons in TARDIS control?  Has Clara saved the Doctor every time we’ve heard the bell?  I can’t remember which episodes it’s been in now.

    #9058
    Anonymous @

    @pedant and @osakahatter and others — and let’s not forget Clara’s brooch. Phoenix motif — or is it? Could it be her ‘wings’…?

    #9060
    Lula @lula

    @OsakaHatter —Xander and Willow and their first day of Kindergarten and that YELLOW CRAYON.  Now that you’ve mentioned “Grave,” I will have to break out my DVDs to watch.  So thanks for that!  (I really mean it–Buffy is in my top 5 of favorite dramas.)

    #9062

    @lula

    (I really mean it–Buffy is in my top 5 of favorite dramas.)

    This is true of all right-thinking people.

    #9064
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @lula

    Indeed. Many Buffy fans on here – and in fact, NuWho was influenced by Buffy.

    #9065
    Lula @lula

    @Bluesqueakpip –was RTD a fan of Joss Whedon?  (Everyone should be a fan of Whedon, in my opinion.)  I did love Tony Head guest starring in “School Reunion.”

    #9068
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @lula – I’m trying not to do too many ‘Who’ related searches right now (Spoilers, sweetie!), so I can’t be exact, but yes, both RTD and Steven Moffat have discussed Buffy in interviews. They’re clearly familiar with it.

    #9070
    SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe

    @lula @bluesqueakpip Think he is, yeah; they (old interviews by RTD and Moff) certainly used the idea of focussing on other characters than Buffy to The Doctor in ‘Doctor-lite’ episodes as in The Zeppo to Love and Monsters, Blink and some others. Plus I’d say The Whispermen are a clear riff on The Gentlemen in appearance at least.

    #9074
    Timeloop @timeloop

    Nice source – even for our discussions right now! Dark Doctor is no option if you go through what Moff says

    #9075
    Anonymous @

    @timeloop — I refer you to Rule number 0. Moffatt lies.

    #9077
    chickenelly @chickenelly

    Hello @scaryb

    Didn’t have time at work to add to my working theories but your additions do add fuel to the fire.  Unfortunately, even after all this time I still don’t have anything to add or form it into a proper (in)coherent bonkers theory™

    I made a slight error of judgement when compiling my list this morning.  Because I couldn’t remember all the episodes off hand, I looked up ‘Doctor Who series 7’ on google!  In my defence the caffeine had not kicked in.  Thankfully all that I glimpsed was the top entry which said something along the lines of ‘spoiler photo’ but thankfully wasn’t reproduced on that page.  *phew*

     

    #9082
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    CRAZY CAPTIONScap

    #9084
    chickenelly @chickenelly

    All it needs is K9 as Toto, Pertwee as Worzel Gummidge and it will be complete…

    #9085
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Afterwards, Zog The Chaperone had the (irrelevant) pleasure of eating a carefully prepared meal, smelling a flower and watching a sunset…

    #9086
    ardaraith @ardaraith

    @wolfweed – What a great pic!! Love the Doctor’s coat.

    #9096
    Dr-Clara @dr-clara

    Not related to any grand unified theory, but there was another Mary Poppins reference this week: the laughing anti-gravity children.

    #9111
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    g scarf

    Gaiman’s 1st Mythology in life was Dr Who…

    #9115
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @wolfweed

    “Liz….. who the hell is that weird guy with the funny costume..?”, asked The Cyberman.

    #9116
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @chickenelly re the list into coherent theory – ah, me neither, but thought it might help to put my bits in with yours (hope that was OK). And for heavens sake woman, did your old Scottish granny never tell you – Seek and ye shall find… spoilers, even if you’re not looking for them sweetie! Lay off the googling, esp Dr who series 7, for the next 4 days.

    @wolfweed– brilliant pics as usual (LOL – Baker looks like he’s got no neck, and Gaiman like his is giraffe length (but very sweet), hehe)

    @dr-clara – that scene was vaguely nagging at me as being familiar – great spot on Poppins. So what’s it mean? Clara’s the Dr’s nanny? His real name’s Mary? Or Bert…?

    #9119
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    #9121
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @craig, @phaseshift @jimthefish

    @wolfweed needs a blog or a thread for his crazy captions, some great pics but they’ll get lost on the threads

    Pretty please?

    <assuming you have time and the crazy hordes of mad trolls haven’t found our watery portal yet :-)   >

     

    #9123
    Anonymous @

    @scaryb and @jimthefish – I think I was the first to note the gap in the Doctor’s mind between 10 and 11 here:

    http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/forums/topic/s33-7-13-nightmare-in-silver/page/2/#post-8612

    Since I have nothing to add to (except admiration for!) bonkers theorising, I’m pathetically looking to ensure that the one single detail I’ve caught all series is attributed to me.  Of course, when it turns out that this stupid detail is completely unimportant, I’ll be pulverising that post and this one.  One must have some dignity.  🙂

    #9125
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @scaryb and @wolfweed I’ve made you, Wolfweed, an author if you want to start a caption competition blog.

    Just click the +New in the top bar and choose “post”. You’ll need to give each pic a title, and it’s best to be different each time, but it can be anything you want. Then it’s much the same as adding a comment.

    After you’re done, in the Categories box on the right choose “Caption competition” (I can change that if you don’t like it) Then hit publish in the box above it. Simple as that 😀

    #9128
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    After all the comments we had on the G which were still on about the Borg, I think in the future I might just say:

    “Look, you realise that this is actually official Canon now don’t you? Suck it up fan boys!”

     

    Star Trek Doctor Who

    #9129
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Yay! @Shazzbot – many kudos flying your way 😉

    And yay! too @craig Thanks

    #9130
    Anonymous @

    @wolfweed – Strictly Come Dancing beats the ratings slump by introducing new judges this year.

    #9131
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @craig & @scaryb – Great! Should I repost the Tom/Lis/Cyber one? I love all your captions by the way!

    #9132
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @wolfweed Yeah, go ahead. As a trial run. Unfortunately I don’t think I can move the comments so far to the blog but will see what I can do.

    #9133
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @wolfweed – that’d be a great one to start with if you could be a*sed (replace * with appropriate letter according to country of origin 😉 )

    #9134
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @Shazzbot — any thoughts on the possible exploding tardis in between 1o and 11?

    #9138
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Okay the Tom/Lis/Cyb pic is up on the blog. Thanks to @craig & @scaryb

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