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10 November 2013 at 14:53 #20477Anonymous @10 November 2013 at 15:09 #2047910 November 2013 at 15:16 #20481
@Shazzbot – You haven’t seen them since they converted to nesting – 1m times worse
@craig – I completely agree with you re it being open to all (most of the time) but sometimes the preservation of peace and sanity for the existing members is more important! And 2 weeks before the 50th is one of the times we should batten down the hatches. We’re no use to anyone if we get over-run by daleks.
😉10 November 2013 at 15:20 #20482Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip
@craig – I think you’re right. Things are going to get more and more hectic over the next fortnight; you don’t want the extra hassle of trying to moderate bunches of trolls looking for active sites to hijack.
If anyone deleted can’t come back, does that mean that – instead of Shazzbot’s shotgun – we should use this?
(It’s been uploaded to the media folder, btw)10 November 2013 at 15:32 #20484Arkleseizure @arkleseizure
@scaryb @Shazzbot : I’ve decided that the Little Green Man will be back after the 23rd!10 November 2013 at 15:38 #20485blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave
@craig. Excellent decision. Two weeks of bonkers theorising sans trolls. Hurrah!10 November 2013 at 15:43 #20486
YAY!!! Break out the SWD (I particularly loved that it was always a lot scruffier than all the other daleks)
Seconded!10 November 2013 at 17:13 #20494
Yes – I agree, probably for the best. The usual “weekend warriors” have been looking a little, well… tired recently don’t you think? Nice of you, like last time, to leave the option of contacting you directly in place.
Just think, after the 50th, it will be a mere hop, skip and jump until we’re worrying about spoilers for the Christmas special!10 November 2013 at 17:24 #20496Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip
@phaseshift – I just realised that – two weeks from today – we’re all going to be nursing terrible hangovers. 🙂11 November 2013 at 17:16 #2053418 November 2013 at 16:07 #20900wolfweed @wolfweed
@craig – I’ve only just realised that I never asked you to do your spoiler code magic on my CIN clip/Breakfast Set Report thread.
Is it too late now?!?18 November 2013 at 17:57 #2090923 November 2013 at 22:00 #2129023 November 2013 at 22:16 #2129323 November 2013 at 23:00 #21304
I tried (as I have before, and succeeded) to set up a new forum for the episode while @craig was away. That coincided with the 404 problem, and I don’t seem to be able to rectify it. I may have broken the internet, or it may be a permissions thing since the new site was implemented that I have remained blissfully unaware of. If you can suffer until tomorrow when @craig is back, many thanks.24 November 2013 at 17:41 #21386curvedspace @curvedspace
I’m sorry, but I can’t figure out how to subscribe to a forum in the new layout. I knew how to do it before. I can’t be on the web site that often, so I subscribe to a forum and follow it via email on my phone. I’ve diligently searched all over; can you help me figure this out?24 November 2013 at 18:10 #21395Anonymous @
@craig – Oh dear, I think I’ve been sent to ‘Spammers Corner’ again. If so, one of them is a duplicate post and can be deleted.24 November 2013 at 22:21 #21446Timeloop @timeloop
@tennantmarsters2013 Report any missing posts here. The automated spam-checking software is glitching sometimes. Try to give some details about the time and the content as well because that makes it easier for the admins to find it fast and fix it.24 November 2013 at 22:26 #21447Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013
@timeloop what has happened I think is either it disappeared and came back or there all along but I’ve never got the email about it
why I thank you greatly it has been one best theorye and the bro have come up with. Mainly coz of the mention of the circles and them they appear in the under gallery and
it is very plain and simple like a future doctors Tardis would be what think24 November 2013 at 22:59 #2145825 November 2013 at 13:31 #21520thommck @thommck25 November 2013 at 18:04 #2154125 November 2013 at 18:26 #21546Anonymous @
@pedant – the neighbours are wondering why I’m exploding with laughter. F ’em, I say. 🙂
That was, simply, brilliant.25 November 2013 at 19:54 #21584
You haven’t seen my best work of the day yet….25 November 2013 at 21:36 #21602Anonymous @
Still waiting, Sweetie … found that green screen yet?! 😀25 November 2013 at 22:58 #21607
Nah, and work has rather inconsiderately butted in.
Hmm. Am in London so might be able to pick some up…
I did have time to go on troll patrol though.28 November 2013 at 11:24 #21842Anonymous @
does anyone know how to subscribe to forum replies? I can’t see the check box that used to appear when you write a reply.
I believe @craig removed that in the upgrade but I’m tagging him here so he can reply to you himself.
As per an earlier comment of mine, Craig, under Profile –> Settings –> Notifications –> Activity, I have both options selected as ‘Yes’ :
A member mentions you in an update using “@ shazzbot”
A member replies to an update or comment you’ve posted
Yet, I do not get emails for anything except @ mentions and posts on a blog which I’ve created, not general updates to threads (i.e., these two options are not related to subscriptions to threads).28 November 2013 at 19:02 #21916Anonymous @
But I’ve been enchanted with watching and discussing the BG Who episodes that have been highlighted so far, and wondered if either of you has thought about further installments in that area. (I have a big vote for The Mind Robber meself.) Should this issue be picked up again after Christmas? Or did either of you (or @craig ) already have plans for additional BG Who stories now that Tomb of the Cybermen is finished?28 November 2013 at 19:27 #21922
I think it’ a great idea to have more communal viewings of BG Who (and I know Shazz is desperate to get going on the Mind Robber, LOL). But given all the flurry of theorising that’s going to be happening around ToTD, not to mention the small matter of Xmas itself, I think people may have limited time to do it. Sorry, I’ll rephrase that – I’ll have limited time!
But picking up again in the cold, dark month of postXmas January would get my vote. Perfect DW viewing time30 November 2013 at 13:34 #22028
Doctor Who and the Wrath of Mod
Following on from some unpleasantness last week, I want to touch on a couple of things. I would appreciate it if you would take the time to read, and consider the points.
This site is moderated, and pretty tightly moderated, by request of its users who wanted a place that was a bit different to other internet sites. A bit more civil and where disagreements do not lead to tedious flame wars and the accumulation of vendettas between users. On the whole, I think we’ve been pretty successful. I was nominated in the first week of the site, and @jimthefish a few months later. @Shazzbot volunteered for duty a little later than that.
They key point here is that we are fans, just like everyone else. I agreed to help to acknowledge the enormous commitment of @craig in establishing the site. A bit of my time to a project that enabled me to mix with posters who I greatly respected. I think all “behind the scenes” will agree we’ve done it with the cack-handedness of the true amateur, learning from our mistakes. There is no rule book for what we do.
There are two elements to what I do, and how I approach it. There is the more visible element, which usually forms a small collection of idiots who invade periodically under various user names for a bit of fun. You know the score. These don’t trouble me in the slightest. They have no intention of contributing to the site, and I feel no obligation to humour them.
Less frequently I have to take up a point with an established user. The best moderation, I hope, is the stuff that’s never seen. That doesn’t embarrass anyone. Most of the time it happens when I think someone may be on the verge of getting too confrontational or getting stuck in a rut. It’s easy to do in the heat of the moment, and many people don’t realise how they may be coming across. Largely, people take the advice although 3 I’ve dealt with have been more tricky. If people disagree, they are free to take it up with other Mods. We’re not a hive mind, and we don’t discuss our individual work with each other for this reason. If people continue with their behaviour you will often see me get a bit short with them live on the blogs if I think they are repeating history.
Last week though was the first time someone has refused to engage by PM and instead preferred to take the argument to the boards. This was a mistake on his part, not mine. If someone wants to pretend that moderation does not apply to them, they are sadly mistaken. You lose any goodwill, especially if you are a poster who has lectured others on what a special place this is in the past and who was pretty obviously brewing up a nice little vendetta against a new member. I’ll Mod anyone, because I’m not above moderation. @craig s given me the odd clip around the ear. If I’m subject to the rules, then I’m afraid so is everyone else.
I really don’t relish moderation at all. It takes up my valuable time, and when people create problems I have little patience. I would rather be reading some excellent posts, or writing another blog, or just about anything really. I’m a fan. That’s not to say that if you are troubled by something, or feeling you are being victimised that you shouldn’t contact me, or others, by PM to discuss it rather than escalating it on the forum. I love responsible posters. They make my life easier and can avoid trouble on the site.
If we contact you, let’s get it over quickly. No rancour – no grandstanding. Don’t make us out to be the villains of the piece for doing the job that needs doing.
Last week, I discussed with @craig the possibility of standing down as Mod in January after doing the job for a year. Oh, I’d come back after a while and give someone else a rest. We’re a small site, and it’s good to mix things up. We’ll see how that goes on timing, but I urge you to consider if you want to spend a little time helping out. I’ve dwelt on the drawbacks, but it can be enormously rewarding as well (in a personal sense you understand, no money is involved). If you think “Not on your nelly, my dear Phaseshift” then just pause next time you feel yourself getting a bit angry. Please don’t make the job more difficult than it is. Don’t make it a laborious chore.
Many thanks for reading.30 November 2013 at 14:38 #22033Juniperfish @juniperfish
@phaseshift I didn’t realise there was so much modding going on behind the scenes!
I’ve been involved in collective not-for-profit organising myself and I know that the rewards (joy, creation, new connections with people and playful, delightful interactions) are balanced by the down-sides (inter-personal squabbles, feeling taken for granted, fatigue).
Sorry I don’t have time (my work requires a lot of evening and weekend work as well as the usual day hours) to step up and volunteer as a mod myself, but maybe others will?!
In the meantime I think reminding people to be civil and not to take any of your work for granted is important.
Sometimes, especially on the inter-webs, we can all cross a line in the heat of the moment. So folks, if you know you have, an apology can go a long way!
For now, for as long as people have the energy, this remains a quirkily joyful little corner of the Who-niverse.
Deep thanks to all of you for making it happen.30 November 2013 at 14:51 #22035Anonymous @
I think I have to agree with at least some of the points that @phaseshift makes here. I have to admit that I’ve found myself biting my tongue at some comments I’ve seen left on the site this past week and I now realise that as a mod that was probably a mistake.
Since day one we’ve actively strived to make this site a pleasant haven from the more unpleasant aspects of the interwebs (especially the Who-related ones). It would be a shame to lose that. Not that that is always going to be easy. Tempers can flare, people can get the wrong end of the stick, particularly without the modifiers of tone of voice, body language etc but I think we all have to recognise that we can sometimes ‘get it wrong’ and that we all have to be willing to back down and admit when we get something wrong. (Which we all do. I’ve been called out a couple of times when I’ve misjudged something and I’m very glad that people have done so.)
And we all have to recognise that our personal judgement of what it is acceptable is possibly not what others would deem to be so. There are members who have been modded right off the site in the past who I’ve thought didn’t really deserve it. Just as I’ve been surprised at people getting away with occasional comments that I think have detrimentally affected the tone of the site.
Something that’s been raised privately to me in the past but which might be worth flagging up is that this site could sometimes be seen as a bit cliquey and unwelcoming to new members, that presumably newer members find it harder to gain acceptance or have their views taken as seriously as the longer-established ones. I would hope that this isn’t the case and that we can be as welcoming as possible to new members without opening ourselves up to widespread trollery. I think this is worth bearing in mind as we interact on the site.
Equally, I think we should also bear in mind that Doctor Who is still a children’s show. It might be that sad old geeks like most of us enjoy weaving our complicated canon-spanning, quantum-enabled theories and this is what the site is for. But at the same time there are lots of kids out there, not unlike the ones we were when we first got into the show. Their thoughts on the show might not be as developed or comprehensive as ours but I’m not sure that that means we should discourage them from taking part. I’m not sure what my 12-year-old self would have made of this site if it had existed back in the day. Kind of intimidated is what I’m guessing.30 November 2013 at 14:54 #22036
Great post @phaseshift.
Just to reinforce how much your commitment is appreciated, so that we have this great space to discuss all things Who in.
Also – I don’t think you stressed enough that this site is run on a VOLUNTARY basis! It might look slick and professional but it relies on the goodwill of all members and especially on the time of yourself, @jimthefish and @craig
The odd blip along the way is to be expected. As you said, there’s no rule book for this. (Although there may be a handbook for world peace by the time we’re finished!!)
And sharing responsibility by rotating modship is a good idea I think. Any takers?
Sometimes, especially on the inter-webs, we can all cross a line in the heat of the moment. So folks, if you know you have, an apology can go a long way!
Definitely30 November 2013 at 14:55 #22037Anonymous @
I personally think that @scaryb is prime mod material….30 November 2013 at 15:41 #2203830 November 2013 at 16:06 #22039curvedspace @curvedspace
@craig, thanks for putting that back. It really makes a difference to my ability to participate on the site.30 November 2013 at 16:23 #22041
As above, real life has taken me away from the site for most of the week and have only been able to dip in occasionally.
It HAS been a weird week and I was a bit disappointed by the lack of civility and inclusiveness of some. I admit that some, perhaps even most, new members do not seem to add much, but others have become valued members, making this site richer. And I’m sure there will be more in the future.
I don’t know about you, but I never saw this as an exclusive club (even although I’ve been guilty in the past of treating it as such at times despite myself – I hold my hand up to that – but I’m hopefully more relaxed about it all now), and I also don’t want it to be a place, as has been suggested by some on The G, where everyone just agrees with each other.
However, I would like it to be a place where, if people disagree, they can still respect each other’s opinions and each other as people. I want it to be as welcoming as possible. If we can do that and defeat trolls at the same time we may pull off the internet’s most impossible trick, but it’s still something to aim for (I suddenly sound a bit Doctory).
As PhaseShift points out, we’ve been very cack-handed in our moderation as we’ve learned, and as Jim says, perhaps some people have been treated a bit more harshly than they should have been in the past and so have never returned.
That is a shame. I can only promise that we will try to do better.
PhaseShift has done a great job as a Mod and I’d like to thank him for all he’s done over the last year, both as a Mod and a contributor. It wouldn’t have been the same without him.
Now, anyone want to be a Mod?… Anyone?… Bueller?
Despite the above it’s not that hard. It’s hard to get right, but not a great demand on your time.30 November 2013 at 17:42 #22048
Many thanks for the endorsements. Just to pick up on a couple of points @jimthefish raised though, and provide an explanation of something.
this site could sometimes be seen as a bit cliquey and unwelcoming to new members
Kind of intimidated is what I’m guessing.
I think we agree here. I think “we” who entered the site in its first days are obviously used to each other to a certain extent. We can play off old jokes and tend to debate with each other more than perhaps new members, and a lot of that is down to the repeat “weekend warriors”. You start to assume that everyone who signs in is one. I realise that it can be intimidating for anyone who joins a new site, but someone who joins and picks a fight in their first few posts is usually asking for trouble, one would assume.
I think if you look at the way that people like @thommck, @ardraith, @arkleseizure, @fatmaninabox and many others (to many to mention) have leapt in you realise the value of new blood, but it takes goodwill on all sides.
I’ve been a bit unhappy that we’ve occasionally been a bit quick to call “Troll” and “ARSE”. Don’t get me wrong, @scaryb s invention was a work of genius that does sum up a particular mindset, but its amazing how quickly these expressions just soon become “a term of abuse for someone who disagrees with me”. I’m also unhappy when moderation of the weekend warriors is seen be become a participatory event. It really isn’t beneficial. I don’t need back-up or an audience to do the work. To a casual reader, or someone who is thinking of joining up it can look damn unpleasant.
I’ll explain one event that has happened. As you may have noticed, @shazzbot is not currently listed as a Moderator. As I said in my main post, she volunteered for duty, and I can’t fault her keenness. I think she may have expected something different from the role, however, and saw it as a “promotion” in some way. At the end of the day, @craig has expressed a desire to retire to the background of the site. Resume his lurker status. I really hope he doesn’t completely, because he’s a right laugh. He’s clear though that he wants us to sort our own problems out.
@Shazzbot has refused to take criticism from anyone except @craig, who she then frequently argues with, refusing to see it from any other perspective. Last week she moderated by who the people were, and not what they had written. After refusing to engage with @craig by PM she contacted a number of people to say ”that’s it” and has possibly gone into lurker status. There is no censure and she’s not banned. @craig has removed the Moderator status after careful consideration. I agreed completely.
Perhaps the secret is to not REALLY want to be a moderator, but just to accept it for a limited time. That way, you don’t dwell on the issues, because it’s a distraction? I hope she returns as a participant. There is absolutely no shame in trying something and finding out it’s not for you. There is no “demotion”. To view it that way is to view it truly as a “career”. That’s surely not the reason we do what we do? If it is, why do I want other people to consider replacing me?30 November 2013 at 18:10 #22050
Harrumph! What are you trying to do to me??
First you say of the pub meet “we’re really not that weird” then you accuse me of being mod material!
My reputation is in tatters!
😯30 November 2013 at 18:30 #22051
New Members – only they can say whether they think the site is intimidating or not. Would be great if some of those mentioned above in @phaseshift‘s post could be honest and say how they found their first experiences of it, and any suggestions for improvement. I’ve noticed quite a few – @timeloop and @tardisblue in particular – have started making a point of welcoming newbies, which is great.
I don’t think it’s a problem if 12year olds generally find it a bit not for them. Maybe quite a few people will think it’s not for them. I remember someone dropped in a while back and posted “You do go on a bit in here don’t you?” Well, yes we do :-), but we’re not trying to create an all purpose fan site. It spun off the Guardian site, so will have a tendency to reflect that readership (minus the trolls). It’s quite specific in that it’s set up for extreme bonkers theorising that probably demands a particular level of literacy.
There’s lots of other places for younger fans, and people with less time on their hands 😉 OTOH if they have a look and connect with it then they are most welcome. As with most websites, most people will lurk for a while before joining in, if they ever do. Their responsibility in that lurking period is to gauge the tone of the site and post appropriately if they do. But any suggestions for making that first toe-dip easier should be welcomed.
@phaseshift – there are lots of different species of trolls – some of them specialise in making you feel guilty about banning them; they’re still trolls – just adept at hitting the vulnerable probic vent!30 November 2013 at 19:40 #22057Anonymous @
@scaryb — heh heh. No slight is intended on your character whatsoever. I just think you’ve been very fair and even-handed in your various dealings with people on the site and that you’d be a good mod. And as @craig says it doesn’t really take up that much of your time.
Their responsibility in that lurking period is to gauge the tone of the site and post appropriately if they do
Good point.30 November 2013 at 20:09 #22060Magnetite @magnetite
As someone who deals with people for a living this site seems like a rather extended family. We’ve come together for Christmas and it’s now the Boxing Day blues at times. Grandad is in the corner with his pipe and slippers muttering, while the young ‘uns are playing with their new toys. And I’m not naming names…
The build-up to the 50th anniversary was intense, fun, bonkers in the expectation of the big day(s), immediately followed by another surge after The Day of the Doctor. I think all that sugar has gone to our collective heads.
Honestly, though, I don’t think that it’s all bad. Most of the time it’s remarkably even-tempered with many sparks of brilliance and some times, when nothing much is happening in tv-land, we do get bored and boring.
Chin up everyone, Christmas is coming (again), and so is the new incarnation of our own Santa.
Thanks everyone and I’ll go back to my corner with my pipe and slippers…30 November 2013 at 22:19 #22071Androclese @androclese
<div class=”Bt Pm” style=”max-height: 119px;”>
<div class=”tG QF”></div>
<div class=”Ct”>50th was the worst episode ever and that includes the last two series. It took pretty much everything that they had established previously and completely discarded it. Timelock, timelords trying to ascend, tom baker was a bad joke, throwing in another doctor and crossing time streams and whatever happened to the peace talks with the silurians, the doctors screwdriver has been destroyed many times so how did it keep making the calculations, Elisabeth 1 knowing everything about the silurians plans and I could go on and on</div>
</div>30 November 2013 at 22:24 #22072
@androclese Thanks for your insightful comments. Wrong thread though.
We have a thread for the 50th. Please post there, then we can laugh at you on the correct thread.1 December 2013 at 09:13 #22085Androclese @androclese
oh craig, remember its better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt, judging by your posts, thats a problem you should work on.
Phaseshift course notes
Examine what we will laughably refer to as “form” here. After signing in, our boy really doesn’t hang about. He’s a thrill seeker, your typical weekend warrior. He posts some generally rubbish comment in the wrong thread. He’s hilariously used “Silurian” rather than “Zygon”, which is to probably try to draw out some kind of response comment that he’s an idiot. Or he may just be an idiot.
@craig has done the right thing here. Kept it short, sweet and crucially not spent as much time on his post as the person who wrote the original. Good play, with an undercurrent of cutting humour.
The response is tiredly predictable and goes straight to the offensive. Just what is he compensating for? Best not the dwell really. Name your cliché; Mother held him too much or not enough, last picked at football, small genitals or just having a rubbish job and the interpersonal skills of a whelk. He likes to take out his inadequacies on others and sees the internet as the perfect place to do it without the danger of physical violence against him. A bit of a coward. Moderation will just feed his sense of ego, and his sense that the world is against him, but that’s life really. He’ll be back, so give it no more thought.1 December 2013 at 11:20 #22086
its better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt,
Please apply that to yourself.
Your original post made you look stupid, with its considerable number of inaccuracies. Your second one is just plain rude. Please see my earlier post on this thread about “appropriate tone”1 December 2013 at 13:07 #22089
How opportune. Candidates for the Moderator 101 course are invited to examine exhibit A above, dated 1 December 2013 at 09:13, which will form part of the exam.1 December 2013 at 13:28 #220901 December 2013 at 13:31 #220911 December 2013 at 13:40 #22094
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