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Thank you, @shazzbot The hair is a shocker. When did he become a hooligan? :sniff: I guess the Doctor’s face really is changing.

:goes in search of an entire sleeve of Jammie Dodgers and sits down to catch up on these threads:

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@curvedspace :whimper:

i took a break from all things Who, as I have been in mourning. 🙁

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@budinacup – You are not alone in fantasy land. I hold some deranged hope that Matt stays…….Grief does strange things to a person. I wish I didn’t know he were about to Leave. I like the face of ‘my’ Doctor, and may feel dubious toward hir (gender neutrality) new face.

signed,

still pouting in Ireland

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@satsumajoe (and @Shazzbot) – haha…..love those morality conversations. No doubt the TARDIS is pansexual, as is the Doctor. I think a switch in gender could be fun, and not for PC reasons. It would open up all sorts of storyline possibilities.

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@bluesqueakpip (and @phaseshift) – It does seem entirely plausible that the Doctor will regenerate as a child. It was pointed out that One was young but chose to appear old because of insecurity. With a fresh slate on the horizon, what better start than as a truly confident ‘babe’ – and Clara has the mad child minder skills!

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@curvedspace – Well, hello! Glad to see you dipping your toes in.

The Bonkers Theorising (apologies @chickenelly , I believe you trademarked that, didn’t you) is a fun, collaborative creative process, probably akin to fan fiction is a very loose sense.  It’s the same vibe as a read-through, or even the rehearsal process.  And my keen ability to suspend disbelief saves me from any disappointment or spoiling when I watch the episode–once the Storyteller begins, any of my own previous imagining disappears and  I’m there..in the world..fully engaged and receptive.  I’m just a big kid- ready to play. 🙂

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@bluesqueakpip – Smith was ‘my’ Doctor. I’ll need to move through the grieving process, and potentially gain a stone due to comfort eating. 🙂

@timeloop – Yes, and thanks. That’s why I’m here. :sniff sniff:  I need a cuppa. Anyone else?

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Bonkers Casting Theory: the Doctor will be a child ( has anyone suggested this yet?), which is why Clara is Mary Poppins.

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I’m still stroppy about this announcement. I was SO looking forward to a complete, and uninterrupted, series with the new companion. :grumble:

Dear Mr Smith.

I recently learned you mean to quit your position as Time Lord, and vacate the TARDIS premises. This behavior is highly unsettling. Indeed, if the situation is not remedied immediately, I may be forced to withdraw my gaze from future Doctors.

Yours, etc.

 

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We have The Rose & Crown !!! bottle of cider please, with a glass of ice.  thank you  🙂

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:peeks in:

Were we ‘trolled’ while I was away sunning, in the few days of summer Ireland is likely to get?

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@craig !!! suddenly lots of dust blowing….stuff…. in my eye

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@misspawsintime – Thank you for reminding me about the leaf with River’s name woven into it!! (and welcome)  @brotherjohn and I think River is one of ClaraPrime’s echoes, and this leaf connection is another link!  So, Clara said that the leaf was more than a leaf, it was the ‘first page’, and we find the identity of River revealed on a leaf.  Clara was blown into this world on a leaf, and River was revealed to those she loves through a leaf.

 

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I am NOT done catching up–boy, what a difference a day can make–but @juniperfish, your reminder of Prisoner Zero’s taunt, “the Doctor in the TARDIS”, made me wonder whether the Hurt Doctor takes over when our Doctor is not with a companion–when he travels alone.

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ClaraNanny makes Davros and Rasillon sit on the naughty step behind the timelock until they learn to get along

@osakahatter – hahaha!!!! Love it!!!! And your detailed explanation of alternate realities and the nature of time travel was much appreciated!

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Thanks, @brotherjohn !  I think it would be amazing, and create a clean slate for the Doctor to move forward, his conscience healed.  And what a treat for the Doctor to have that chance to go back and rectify his past mistake – and for us to see part of the time war!!  Then…..when he and ClaraPrime finally hop back into their right timestream, they will both realise she *was* River – that River was one of her echoes – and they are…. married!  :gasp:  Surely not!  It would be a funny scene, though!

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We’ve not stepped out of the Dr’s timestream yet, we don’t know what outside looks like yet.

@scaryb – Oh!! What IF, when they finally step outside that timestream, everything has changed!  What if the Time War didn’t end due to the brutality of Hurt Doctor? What if The Doctor ends it, with healing?  What if The Doctor is married, with little people?  What If…that world is a better place??

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@thommck – I also noted the relationship dynamic between Vastra and Jenny this episode!  (please cover young readers eyes) I think they have a kinky relationship.

Oops!  And I apologise for cluttering the board, instead of consolidating my responses!  Now, for elevenses.  🙂

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@scaryb -So…the clip we thought was the Library, is actually the clip with 10.  Anyone know which ep that shot is from?

(edit: um. I  have just revealed my lack of caffination.  Please carry on and ignore me for just a bit.)

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@wolfweed – Ah, now I see him!  Thank you for posting that!  He does rather blur by, doesn’t he.

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@wolfweed – Where is McGann? I only see Troughton dashing about…

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Hiding behind the sofa, after visiting….the other place.  There are aliens in the WiFi! eep.

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@craig

It seems someone named @happiness just posted some spam on the activity stream.

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@badwulf – She opened the doors to the tombe because she knows Clara Prime must jump into the time stream, and become the ‘girl who was born to save the Doctor’ so that Clara as River can come into existence. 🙂

I suspect that the damaged window indicates that the Doctor was meant to die at Trenzalore with the GI, i.e., never have left after opening his tomb. But the impossible girl changed that.

@phileasf – That is beautiful imagery — the larger than life TARDIS and Dalek, bookending the anniversary year.

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!!!!!! @Shazzbot – Is he going to accidentally pop out in Ten’s time????

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@Shazzbot – oh, yea!  Of course Clara Prime would have told the Doctor how Jenny appeared to die during the conference call!  I was back to thinking it was a ‘Jenny as the Doctor’s Daughter’ reference!

oops!  Meant to say…I think @bluesqueakpip may have started the ‘Clara Prime’ term, or was that someone else up there^^ , or is was it me…in another time line??

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Oh – additional thought.  Did anyone else notice how the Doctor specifically said hello to Jenny when he finally arrived outside the tomb??

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(But when the heck did she learn his name??  I thought for a moment that she would learn it in this episode in a timey-wimey way, but alas not – perhaps we’ll never know)

@Shazzbot – She learnt it in the TARDIS library, by reading the History of the Time War.  She “made him” let her read it, by playing that scene out over and over with the Zombie Doctor in JttCoTD until she had enough time to find just the right page!  🙂

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A few thoughts, after a third re-watch:

River spoke to the GI as though she knew it.  She said, “you know he can’t go there…”  Additionally, the GI seems to have a deeper connection and knowledge of the Doctor than we have any inkling of.
I am with the others regarding John Hurt (Doctor nth) being the Great Time War version, hidden behind the Doctor’s mind wall, which we were cleverly shown in NiS.
The time wounds are located in the same physical location as the TARDIS central column.  Is there a possible merging that occurs between a Time Lord and a TARDIS, when he travels as much as the Doctor – he said he has travled more than any other living thing?

@juniperfish – Leading the Doctor to Trenzalore is exactly the sort of thing River would do, because she (Clara as River) knows she must (Clara as Clara) be scattered throughout time, in order to be in the Library to save the Doctor, etc.  Having River as an echo of Clara, albeit “TimeLorded” and TimeVortexed due to conception, helps explain how River could still have seen all the Doctor’s faces without Ten recognising her – because she saw them inside the Doctor’s timeline as “Clara Prime.”

It’s possible that  Time Lord Clara (the one living on Gallifrey)  directing the Doctor to Old Sexy could still work with the narrative that  Old Sexy stole her Time Lord because….. as we saw in TDW, Old Sexy views all time as happening now.  Clara Prime jumps into the Time Stream, which is connected to the Time Vortex, via Old Sexy, and is thus…in a timey-wimey way…influenced by Old Sexy – showing up just where the Doctor needs her.

@Shazzbot – River and the Doctor lie, and River doesn’t give away spoilers.  Anything River says can’t be held against her in a forum of Doctor Who Theorising.  🙂

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@JimThe Fish – I agree. I think River’s echo is fading, and Alex won’t appear again. But I think her origin was as an echo of Clara. I think River was one of Clara’s echoes, sent through time. I suspect that with her leaf returned,  having jumped into the time stream, she will return a full fledged character!!

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@scaryb – I’m of the same opinion as you, regarding the Doctor’s death at Trenzalore having now been rewritten.  The TARDIS interior, and crack in the window, gave it away for me–those are all characteristics of the TARDIS that landed with Clara aboard. But this time…the impossible girl was there.

I am delighted by my theory of River being one of Clara’s echoes, super-boosted by conception on the TARDIS. River was potentially the first echo to hold all the information and memories from the other echoes, as well as the original Clara. Hence, her unequalled (even by the Doctor) foreknowledge.  @bluesqueakpip mentioned the possibility that Clara will, going forward, possess her full range of memories again, via the leaf.

River would have known about her life (as Clara) with the future Doctor. Could we be seeing where River’s memory of her relationship with the Doctor truly starts?  Could the return of the leaf, and having jumped into the Doctor’s time stream, open the way for the tremendous foreknowledge we experienced with the River “echo” of Clara?

regardless, I am sold on this theory of River as Clara. (Whistles happy tune. River never really goes away.)

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@brotherjohn – yup, I think River is Clara, as well. See my previous posts: http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/forums/topic/s33-7-14-the-name-of-the-doctor/#post-9609

and

http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/forums/topic/s33-7-14-the-name-of-the-doctor/page/2/#post-9629

 

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Official announcement of the new series from the BBC.

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@jimthefish – that was my thought, as well. That because of this moment, with the GI and Clara, everything from the past has changed.

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@timeloop – yes, I don’t think we’ll see Alex Kingston again, but that “spoilers” has me thinking. River was twisted, by the silence, to be, “the girl who kills the Doctor,” when her original mandate was, ” to save the Doctor.” They both say they have seen all his faces – Clara was even in Gallifrey! She says she has been born in many times, and many places. Where else would an impossible astronaut, er, I mean girl, be born but to a couple who conceived her on the TARDIS?

i love @craig ‘s idea of Zero!!!!!!!

(looks around to see if it’s safe) squeeee!

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“I’m linked to Clara…..Spoilers.”

And Clara said in the time stream that she had seen all his faces, all eleven of them.  So had River!  I totally think Clara is River.

And John Hurt *has* to be the ‘doctor’ that fought the time war.  He said he did what had to be done for peace and sanity.  !!

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OMG!!

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@lula – You can use expat shield to watch on iPlayer ??

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@janetteb – I”m with you!  I really don’t understand why anyone would watch an episodic they didn’t enjoy.  I mean, really?? Have people’s lives become so miserable, have they learned to ‘just settle’ so often, that they squander their few hours of entertainment or personal time on something they dislike?  Mind-boggling.

But not here!  Very thankful for this fun, positive little portion of the web.

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@satsumajoe – OH!! Could Clara be either RiverSong OR RiverSong’s granddaughter from an alternative timeline?? If the Silence never existed, then River would never have been taken from Amy and Rory.  Thus, when they were zapped back in time, they would have had little Melody with them.  Perhaps Melody grew-up, had a daughter, and that daughter became Clara’s mum??

In that alternate timeline, River would not know the Doctor.  Not really.  Her only knowledge of him would be through stories.

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Clara’s mum is….. The Doctor !!

After all, he says that kind of stuff all the time, like when he told Amy he would find her daughter.

Ok, my household’s collective theory is that sometime in the future the Silence become all powerful, because the Doctor never went to Trenzalore.  In fact, in that future the Doctor is dead.  So, Clara is sent back throughout time to find the Doctor when he is still alive, and shape his path toward Trenzalore, so the question can be asked.

And further household speculation, that I can not support (lol), is:

In AoTD, the Dalek’s actually implant Clara into the hive mind in order to help the Doctor get to Trenzalore.  (don’t ask me how this makes sense)

That Clara is a flesh body in TS.

That Clara is actually the Doctor’s wife, from Gallifrey.

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@htpbdet – Best  wishes!  and speedy return.

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@miapatrick – I’ve heard the spoilers are non-existant.  ?? Very strange, but it has caused some to speculate that the accident, as it were, never happened: that it was all a big marketing ploy. ??

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Spoiler

spoiler pics

I’m a little surprised the BBC has released so any pics of the upcoming finale. Another batch of almost 40 came out today. many are very spoilery in natures.

http://blogtorwho.blogspot.ie/2013/05/the-name-of-doctor-more-promo-pics.html

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@miapatrick – I also prefer my entertainment to be free from gender stereotype, unless there is a reason for it.

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@htpbdet and @scaryb – Hmm, indeed. Interesting that Time Ladies appear to have a different perspective on the change of regeneration.  That’s a concept that could be applied to human women, as well.  We can often be more aware of change (just look at all the changes our bodies go through, birth to death) and more adaptable to it, perhaps because it is so intimately tied to our biology, as it were.

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@miapatrick I dont mean the personality didnt change, or she only changed shape, I am referencing the attitude toward regeneration. @whohar and @scaryb were discussing the apprehension on the part of a time lord to regenerate, because it was “a more fundamental process than just changing shape.” Yet, Mels, and her new face, seemed to express just this attitude, e.g., “I’m focusing on a dress size.”

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@whohar Agreed. Time Lords don’t regenerate till they are in a situation in which, if they couldn’t regenerate, they would die. It’s a more fundamental process than just changing shape.  Hence T’s reluctance to go.

@scaryb (for some reason my iPad made you: Scarbyte) Yet, River’s regen in LKH was exactly that: “just changing shapes.”

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Prequel speculation
Prequel speculation
Prequel speculation
I’ve been introducing my partner to RiverSong, so he has a better idea of her significance in the finale. Last night we watched Let’s Kill Hitler, and I was struck by this mirroring:

“I was born to kill the Doctor.” RiverSong
“I was born to save the Doctor.” Clara Oswald

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@phaseshift – I’m ridiculous.  That image choked me up.

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