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  • #8736
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    Time Lord

    Fair warning

    We’ve featured Prequels in the news section before (see Page 7 for the Bells prequel). So here is the Prequel for “The Name of the Doctor”. The reason for this is that a Prequel is almost intended to be seen prior to transmission.

    Comments afterwards may discuss it, so if you want to avoid it altogether, it should be easy to bypass the news section for a week. No discussion of any other trailers or spoilers please.

    She said/He Said:

    #8722
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    Time Lord

    Just really a question for @juniperfish, @scaryb and @whisht (and anyone else concerned about spoilers).

    I think you all know I’m averse to spoilers myself. I have watched the prequel that was on the blue button and was going to embed it here somewhere for discussion. On a personal level, I’m not going to do that in the spoilers section, as I’m avoiding there like the plague.

    My reasoning is: As a prequel, this is designed to be seen before the show. I think we all enjoyed the prequel to Bells on the news pages, and it didn’t really spoil the show in the slightest.

    Having seen it, I merely outlines some interesting points about the story so far, and the questions each have for one another. It’s pretty tame stuff. If you are avoiding the prequel I can embed it in the news section and post a few thoughts there (as with Bells) which should be easy enough to avoid for a week.

    Any thoughts on preference?

    #8719
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    Time Lord

    Ok – I’ve just done my rewatch and I still think this is excellent stuff, with one exception.

    The kids – now that was a shame because since little Amelia we’ve had some great natural performances from kids on the show, and their interactions with Matt have made for some great television. If you compare the girl who played young Clara in the prequel, it’s a far more natural sounding performance than last night which seemed too stilted and mannered. A bit “stage schooly”, perhaps? I found that this was more than made up for by Warwick Davies. So often behind latex, or adopting a jokey voice, here he had a role to bit into and obviously did it with some relish.

    The main point though was the Cybermen. A fantastic idea that was allowed to diminish after their sixties heyday. I premptied the “Borg” question on the Guardian blog because some people do have no sense of history. Kit Peddler, who co-created the Cybermen was a scientist and writer. His original inspiration was organ replacement surgery and played on the notion of how much you could replace before really calling yourself human.

    It was a cutting edge idea. The term “Cyborg” was only coined in 1960 and when the “Cybermen” were created it still wasn’t in common useage. It’s easy to forget that. For me, it seems natural to extrapolate that to include elements of nano-technology that were developed in the 80s. The old show missed that trick before cancellation, but by then they were on a long slide towards irrelevence. Attack of the Cybermen saw a Cyberman killed by a “lucky shot” to a vulnerable point we’d never heard of before. How the mighty had fallen.

    The scariest Cyberman since the reboot was in “The Pandorica Opens”. My neice screamed as the head grappled with Amy and discharged that skull. People suggested it didn’t make sense, but for me the idea that the robot part, if it’s internal organs had rotted or failed, would have enough basic comprehension to seek out new organic parts made them all the more creepy. It also had echoes of a quote from “Revenge of the Cybermen” in which they proclaim they have “Robot parts hidden to build a new army”. Robot parts who could seek out the organic oomponents themselves perhaps.

    I think they trialled the ideas of new conversion pretty effectively in the free to download* Adventure Game “Blood of the Cybermen”. In it the cybermats are used to inject nanites into targets who slowly turn into “cyberslaves”. If you haven’t had a go, it’s pretty good. Very atmospheric.

    So for me, this did bring back the creeping menace of the Cybes. The scene where the Mites crawled out of their eyes I could guarantee would have lodged in my mind had I been a nipper.

    My one concern is perhaps too powerful. I think this was a trap RTD fell into with the Daleks. When one Dalek could cause so much havoc and was invincible, numbers don’t matter. The resolutions then became trickery and probably not as satisfying. GodDonna spinning a few buttons and muttering some technobabble comes to mind. We’ll see how that one plays out.

    * Legally free to download in the UK from the BBC web-site. Although if you’re overseas a quick google search may provide you with other alternatives.

    #8657
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    Time Lord

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    I think for me it was a brilliant episode and I just got caught up with it. I was taken along for the ride. It’s happened a lot this series, and whereas I’d note details before, this run has been so enjoyable I haven’t. My brain kicks into gear on the second watch (which will have to be tomorrow now).

    I think you’ll find it a lot of fun. There are some breathtaking scenes and great concepts to dwell over for the next week!

    #8653
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    Time Lord

    By the way – One for @craig – Dan was asking why we hadn’t confirmed his registration on the Guardian. I’ve just posted asking him to use the e-mail link on the front page of the blog.

    At least we know it was actually him claiming to be Dan, and not a replicant!

    #8652
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    Time Lord

    @wolfweed

    Now that’s what I call service! šŸ˜€

    @chickenelly, I started laughing thinking someone was going to post “It’s Fenric” at some point and was amazed they didn’t. They were all over the place at the end of series 6 with that fake Imdb listing.

    @shazzbot borking the recommendations was why I had to give up MindOverMatter. The “recommend fairy” took to loading my profile, following me around the system and borking every comment I made. On a five comment blog I’d have 212 recommendations. I talked to the Mods and they suggested a change. I took it. It amazes me people act like that. So glad we don’t have that kind of system here.

    #8645
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    Time Lord

    @htpbdet

    Alexander was always going to revert to type pretty soon. It’s pointless to engage with him. I had a comment moderated under some of his Dalek fanfiction once which simply said “I applaud this. Alexander gives his audience what they want. What a trooper.”

    #8640
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    Time Lord

    Just an observation but – on the runup to the finale, a chess board in view and NO-ONE on the Guardian Blog is screaming “Fenric”. It seems….. wrong somehow. šŸ˜€

    #8633
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    Time Lord

    @mephistopheles and @galactus

    Well met my fellow Sandman readers! I spent a lot of the episode just considering how well that translation worked. One of us is going to have to write a blog post about Sandman to introduce others to that realm.

    @htpbdet

    Having read all of your posts, I feel somewhat confident in suggesting you’d actually get a lot from “The Sandman” series. They are “graphic novels” (comics) but you’ll see why I’ve always said that Gaiman could be to the Moff, what Moff was to RTD. It plays on some big concepts and after the first collected run hits it’s own territory well. Stories about stories. Myths and Legends.

    His “A midsummer night’s dream” sees the playwright be inspired to create a masterpiece for a very special audience. It won a World Fantasy Award. Then the people who organised it changed the rules to prevent something similar winning again. Their loss.

    #8573
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    Time Lord

    I really like that. “The Doctors Wife” was such a good episode I really expected “The difficult second episode” syndrome to kick in. He really did not disappoint though.

    Lots and lots to ponder and I really need a rewatch. @htpbdet has caught a lot of details, but there were some echoes of the writers other works here to good effect. His “Sandman” series has a historical story (August) which tells the tale of a day that an aging Emperor Augustus pretends to be a begger in Rome for a day, relating his life story and his fears about the empire to the Dwarf actor who helps him. It’s remarkable stuff, about dreams and boundaries. Well worth a read.

    #8566
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    Time Lord

    @htpbdet

    If you ever get Janet Fielding tipsy

    Ahhh you may have awoken some adolescent fantasies I had there. My suave 15 year old self. Tegan. A 1.5 litre bottle of “Thunderbird”. 😳

    Only joking. Janet Fielding really is funny. I was so sorry to hear about her cancer issues. Hope she is in good health.

    @wolfweed

    Many thanks – that is brilliant. šŸ™‚ Is it linked to a blog site at all with others? I want a t-shirt with that on.

    Hope you saw my recommendation that you do a caption competition of the month for the blog. You seem to have the eye for sniffing out great images.

    @juniperfish

    Hello stranger! Hope you caught our request to use your Bond review for the blog roll. We’ll need you to repost it, but hopefully we can talk about it tomorrow.

    #8563
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    Time Lord

    @htpbdet

    Hopefully you’ve received notification you have a comment on your SIDRAT (great name) blogpost from me.

    Many thanks for doing those. @craig s watching the footie, but if I can suggest we break the great text between Polly, Ben and the Doctor into a separate lines and maybe consider insering a few pictures for the blog post? I can edit if you want, but we’ll see what other feedback we get.

    I also thought I could add a link at the base of the regenerations one to “The Faces of the Doctor” thread to highlight where your (and others) thoughts on the Doctors could be found.

    Brilliant to see some more go up though. I confessed to @craig and @jimthefish that out blog roll looked a bit “phaseshifty” until now!

    #8540
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    Time Lord

    @scaryb

    Thanks for the Bonzo’s. I had the pleasure of seeing them at Newcastle City Hall when they reformed a while ago with Phil Jupitus and Ade Edmonson standing in for Viv. An incredibly fun night out. They introduced Urban Spaceman as “our medley of hit”.

    @whisht

    Love a bit of Squeeze. On Doctor Who, The Crimson Horror with it’s flashback scene reminded me of something, and looking at it this really is a great complimentary song for the Moff Dark Fairytale in terms of lyrics, tone and the surreal look of the video which riffs on Georges MĆ©liĆØs’s early silent film “A Trip to the Moon”.

    #8537
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    Time Lord

    @craig

    I think I agree. I don’t think the conversation has been spoilerish, but it does add another split to the conversation.

    One thing I did enjoy though was @wolfweed s caption competition. It was fun reading some of the jokes. As he has an eye for a good pic, perhaps he could give some thought to a monthly blog post with a different picture to have a few comments next to?

    #8535
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    Time Lord

    On the “Doctor as religion” theme, this article by Stephen Kelly on the Guardian was quite entertaining.

    #8534
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    Time Lord

    @htpbdet

    I’d never heard that Nathan Turner had anything to do with whipping up the Richard Hurndall farrago. How enormously sad. He really was a piece of work.

    #8483
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    Time Lord

    @shazzbot

    We are programmed to see parallels, draw comparisons to stories we have seen before. Last series I explained to @juniperfish how I saw parallels between The Doctor (Odin) and his Raven servants (Huginn and Muninn) – the one who wanted to leave, Rory, and the other he would miss, Amy. She laughed her head off. I’ve been delighted this series with her opinion this is a Osiris story. It’s breathtakingly barmy, but true. Look at her posts!

    We kind of see what we want to see. Our theories are developed from us. It’s glorious. I can see parallels, but if you see them stronger, that’s brilliant. I might see them when I watch ā€œKey to Timeā€ again in August.

    Plus a few more experiences which are not relevant to discussing the CH episode

    I hope they were good ones. Thing is, for better or worse, those experiences made you, well — you! You’re the person I’m communicating with, and the way you see the patterns and formulate theories is down to you. The sum knowledge of your experience and cognitive skills. Welcome to the team supreme. šŸ™‚

    (Handshake)

    Glad to meet you @shazzbot

    #8479
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    Time Lord

    @shazzbot

    Please – don’t bother! I had none of that in mind when I wrote that post. These were thoughts I developed when I was a teenager in the 80s. The concepts have been in Who since that time. If you see Mirroring in them you don’t need to bother watching the Key to Time. In particular “The Power of Kroll”.

    I grew up in a house that ignored religion. My school lightly touched upon it and I thought it fairy tales. As a self obsessed teenager (is there any other kind) I thought a lot about it and developed my own philosophy on life. It still remains the cornerstone of my “beliefs” and gives me comfort while disturbing anyone I relate it to. I will not trouble you with it. It still develops to this day.

    Anyone who says they have a simple answer to morality will hand you a holy book. They really should be distrusted. There are no simple answers. Just stupid questions.

    #8477
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    Time Lord

    @wolfweed

    Many thanks for that link. I’ll devour that with coffee and biscuits tomorrow morning!

    #8476
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    Time Lord

    @satsumajoe & @shazzbot

    I wonder what everyone here thinks about it?

    I thought it was well argued and agreed with many of the points.

    For my opinion on the ethics question, I think he reflects what so many of us in a modern age have to deal with – forging our own morality.

    He abandoned his own people because he was disillusioned (and there was plenty to be disillusioned about). He recognises no God or Holy writ (while recognising their civilising capacity) so what is left? Forge your own identity. Your own morality.

    The way I formulated my opinion of The Doctor was “The Key to Time” series. Six variable quality stories in which the Doctor goes on a quest at the behest of The White Guardian, to reassemble the Key to Time. The Guardians are everlasting universal concepts – Anthropomorphic personifications of forces in the Universe. The White represents Order and Light. The Black represents Chaos and Darkness. Chaos is gaining ground, and the Key is required to restore order or balance in the Universe.

    The Doctor has six adventures and regains the six components of the Key to Time (at the expense of the life of a young woman). Assembled, he rolls his eyes and declares himself the most powerful being in the Universe (he’s winding Romana up). The Black Guardian appears as White and tries to trick him into giving him the Key. The Doctor doesn’t fall for it, reasoning that by assembling the Key he has fulfilled his mission. Order is restored. He disperses the Key restoring the young woman who is part of it to her original state.

    The Doctor is the perfect agent of order and chaos in the Universe. In systems that have become too ordered (perhaps oppressed) he presents chaos in rebellion. In systems that have become too chaotic (warlike) he brings order. For the betterment of the many.

    I suggested that his mission statement may reflect a simple Hippocratic Oath

    “I will keep them from harm and injustice”

    But you have to question how such an easy oath could be fulfilled.

    The Blog mentions a quote from the Third Doctor to the Thals:

    ā€œYou’ll all be national heroes. Everybody will want to hear about your adventures….So be careful how you tell that story, will you? Don’t glamorize it. Don’t make war sound like an exciting and thrilling game…Tell them about the members of your mission that will not be returning…Tell them about the fear. Otherwise your people might relish the idea of war. We don’t want that.ā€

    BUT in the First Doctors encounter with the Thals in the Daleks, he and Ian turn the Thals from the ultimate pacifists willing to embrace extermination to avoid conflict, into a people willing to fight for survival, and protect themselves and their loved ones. Perhaps the Doctor delivers his message to try to bring that balance to any given situation?

    At the end of the day he has the power to be a universal fulcrum. To give power to the weak against a stronger force. To call for peace in the middle of a pointless war. Balance is everything and The Doctor walks his own tightrope walk between perceptions of good and evil.

    Much was made on the fate on Solomon in “Dinosaurs on a Space Ship”. The thing is – what should the Doctor have done – let a mass murderer escape unpunished? He doesn’t believe in an afterlife (uploading to the Matrix was the Gallifreyan afterlife). Who delivers justice for the Silurian lives he had stolen on that ship? Surely not his own culture he was escaping to? No – he delivers a Judgment on Solomon. Perhaps the only person who could?

    When you think you are above any law, the Doctor will judge you by his greater good. It scares those with sense, so why not? People may criticise, but try walking in those shoes.

    Trying to define a simple morality for the Doctor would be impossible. Every situation a different scenario. A different rule.

    ā€œI’m not a good man. A good man wouldn’t need so many rulesā€

    A Good Man goes to War.

    The list of rules probably occupies two floors of the TARDIS library. It continues to grow.

    #8466
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    Time Lord
    #8455
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    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip

    That is really taking the piss. I’ve met one of the people in the contact list before (years ago when he worked somewhere else). He deserves to be busted.

    I think I might write a joke letter to Trading Standards:

    Dear Sirs,

    I recently approached the company “Tardis Hire” which I believe lies under your area of juristiction.

    When enquiring about the availability of a Type 40 TARDIS for a weekend jaunt to Metabilis 3, I was astonished to be informed that they do not provide this service. I believe this to be a clear misrepresentation under the Advertising (Provision of Goods & Services) Regulations and I hope you will investigate further.

    Yours, etc

    Mr. P. Shift.

    #8440
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    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip

    Oh yes – just the announcement would make the internet explode. I remember talking with @juniperfish (and maybe @branfish) about female Doctors. I thought if they ever wanted to do a “Doctor-lite” episode they should basically just reverse the dynamic. Walk through a door and instead of The Doctor and Clara, you get The Doctor (female) and Clarance. That would be a low risk way of exploring the possiblity in a very “Mind Robber”/”Dream Lord” way. Would the dynamic necessarily change? Some good casting and it would at least be a fun 40 minutes.

    #8437
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    Time Lord

    @shazzbot

    To be fair – my observation about fandom changing was more about the comic fandom. The stereotype of ā€œThe Comic Book Guyā€ who moans about continuity is really rare now. Something changed and they started not to dwell on the old, but embrace the new.

    I think certain elements of Who fandom online really remind me of a dark period pre-internet. I was a really young member of the DW Appreciation Society and a few other mail order fan organisations when I was growing up. I was a new teenager when ā€œThe Five Doctorsā€ was shown and Richard Hurndall was cast as the First Doctor. You’ve never seen anything like the reaction that got. People crying betrayal, an insult to Hartnell, asking for the production teams head on a platter. The BBC office intercepted hate mail posted to Hurndall, who was just an older actor earning a crust. It was really horrible, and I actually walked away from interacting with fandom for a while wondering how so many twisted nutcases could actually call the Doctor their hero? It’s why I blanche sometimes when I read ā€œoh….. cast look-alikes for Doctors 1-3, it worked in the Five Doctorsā€.

    Posting online for many seems an easy way to let the baser instincts out for a walk. If everyone who posts on the new series blogs who says ā€œThe old series was much better – I saw it all, meā€ is believed at face value then ā€œThe Green Deathā€ blog would surely have more than 22 comments at present (nearly half from contributors to this forum) celebrating it? Negative reaction online for anything should be a given. I’m only surprised that the relatively positive tone during series 5 and 6 blogs was maintained by a small bunch of enthusiasts willing, often in the face of hostility, to engage with the programme. It’s a rare thing.

    @scaryb

    Excellent analogy and posts.

    #8432
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    Time Lord

    @wolfweed (last one I promise)

    After conversion, Barry and Paul from Rotherham tried to continue their double act as the “Monotone Brothers”.

    ā€œWhy are you in that boxā€
    ā€œMy head is going rustyā€
    ā€œIt always wasā€
    ā€œHa….Ha…..Haā€
    ā€œAre those drainpipe trousersā€
    ā€œNo – vacuum cleaner pipe trousersā€
    ā€œHa…..Ha…..Haā€
    ā€œIt will be flares and Moonboots soonā€
    ā€œHa….Ha…..Haā€
    ā€œTo me, Delete youā€
    ā€œHa….Ha….Haā€.

    #8431
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    Time Lord

    @craignixon

    It’s largely concerned with “The Deadly Assassin” (Tom Baker) where The Master was said to have used his regenerations up. He tried to steal the icons of the President that would enable him to absorb the energy of the Eye. In ā€œThe Five Doctorsā€ the Time Lords offer him a new set of regenerations if he helps The Doctor, although they don’t specify how they would do it. Perhaps though multiple donations of energy from many TimeLords as we’ve subsequently seen River do for the Doctor?

    #8420
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    Time Lord

    Ouch – apologies for that. Started typing and didn’t stop. Really should have checked the length and apologised in advance!

    #8419
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    Time Lord

    For me, I think the relative differences between show runners approach and demands for more consistency (in terms of morality, family representation, etc) are fundamentally opposed to my view. Doctor Who is weird in that for 50 years people have been telling stories about one man on TV, books and audio. I can’t think of another example in TV at all. In movies you have Bond, which is perhaps a case for an example, but the nearest pop culture comparison (for sheer volume of output) is perhaps one of the iconic heroes of American comics. Maybe Batman? He’s 74 this year.

    Back in the late 70s and 80s I read Batman books. At the end of the current issue used to be a page of readers letters. Some of them were bewildering to me. They would be complaining that the issue 3 back had run roughshod of something that happened in the issue printed June 1963. I was simultaneously amazed at their knowledge, envious they had access to such material and frankly – didn’t care. In an age before reprints I’d never get to read it. In the late 80s the continuity of all these heroes (which now included parallel worlds to explain why they didn’t age) became so tortuous they killed most of them, harmonising them into another linear reality. A short term solution at best.

    Something happened in the 90s to fandom, and I’m not sure what it was. Although you still get a few diehards who argue for some kind of linear narrative, for most, the love of Batman kept them coming back. In particular the interest in what any particular creative team would ā€œdoā€ with their hero. Would he be the lone Dark Avenger or hang out with a youth in tights? Would the focus be on his detective skills, or an action romp with lots of gadgets? Would he be seen on the right side of the law, or the wrong? People started to talk about Miller’s ā€œDark Knight Returnsā€ and Moore’s ā€œThe Killing Jokeā€, not really any giving a wet slap about linear continuity.

    A similar thing, for me, is the attraction of Who. Each creative team has given their own spin on The Doctor. For many in the new audience who aren’t familiar with the old, Russell T. Davies vision is the first one they encountered and therefore perhaps ā€œdefinitiveā€. I once heard the description ā€œThe Lonely God meets kitchen sink melodramaā€. Not sure I’d fully agree, but I can understand the elements and if you are aware of RTDs background as a writer you can possibly see that is how he would automatically approach the story of The Doctor. I found it a fun approach, as you had never seen it in the show before – how would The Doctor cope with an angry mum after he’d hauled her offspring across half the Universe? What if the Doctor suddenly encountered someone he’d left with a little bit of a hole in her life that he’d filled? They were good stories to tell, and largely well told.

    If Moffat had continued that approach I think some would have accused him of playing safe. If every companion had an annoying family to feature, it would soon be very tired. Rather than looking at the ties that bind to Earth he looked at the future, and the impact on the future family of a young couple. More about the odd relationships that you can form outside family that are sometimes more important than your own family – because family you don’t get to pick. Instead of the ā€œLonely Godā€ we get ā€œThe Madman in the Boxā€. Replace ā€œKitchen Sink Melodramaā€ with ā€œDark Fairytaleā€. I love it even more, but recognise that others tastes will differ.

    In this series perhaps we’ve seen the future show runners in action. I’ve found the episodes different and usually engaging on different levels. Perhaps that was the point of the blockbuster series – audition reels to show what they would focus on, within the obvious constraints of the current showrunner vision. With Chibnall we had the return of the family, both in Brian and perhaps a reborn UNIT. With Gatiss perhaps a showcase of some classic tropes and the dark phantasmagorical humour he loves. If you truly believe that this show has the capacity to go anywhere and be anything, you really have to be prepared that sometimes you might not like the direction it will go in. The point is that a new approach may bring new converts and that’s always how the show has succeeded.

    It’s why that, although I use the term, I hate the reference to ā€œClassic Whoā€. Yes, it’s a neat description for the first seven Doctors, but I think it’s almost insulting to present it as a unified consistent period. Especially to all that creative talent who worked hard to present their vision of what The Doctor is over those years.

    #8394
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    Time Lord

    @wolfweed

    Cyberman 1: ā€œ*Do you have any change in your pocket?*ā€
    Cyberman 2: ā€œ*No change – No Pockets!*ā€
    Cyberman 1: ā€œ*Abandon Invasion! **** Pocket Upgrade required!*ā€

    #8392
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    Time Lord

    @craig

    I also think that both the comments by @juniperfish and @htpbdet would make good additions to the blog roll if they are willing (I think @juniperfish gave us permission, but it was a while ago, and it’s best to check).

    I thought the thumbnail pic that was put up in the Activity thread was a interesting effect – didn’t expect that.

    #8271
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    Time Lord

    As well as it being Neil Gaiman, and new Cybermen, I caught a glimpse of Jason Watkins in the next time trailer. Great to see him in the show.

    It’s funny, he’s done some really warm and funny roles in films and TV (see his camp wedding planner in a film called “Confetti”), but it’s amazing how much scary malevolence he can bring to roles.

    He was fantastic as Herrick in “Being Human”, even when he looked more human than this:

    #8269
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    Time Lord

    @wolfweed

    Yes, I agree with you to a large extent. I’m as unlikely to unconditionally believe something a Pressure group says as I am a Corporate spokesperson these days. There is so much bull surrounding the issues and arguments that sorting facts and making decisions becomes harder, when some hard issues need to be made.

    Pass me that box of maggots, would you?

    Ha – it took my mother about an hour (it seemed a lot longer) to pick the little sods out of my hair and clothes while I screamed my nearly four year lungs out.

    As a scientist I should be “Zen” and say I recognise maggots as an astonishing evolutionary tranistory state in the insect life cycle. The important work they do in stripping dead matter and later returing it to the food cycle of so many other species.

    But they are still ‘orrible little wriggling bastards to me, and shall be forever more! šŸ˜€

    #8259
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    Time Lord

    @wolfweed

    Beat me to it! I just made my comment on why I’m glad I didn’t see that as a young ‘un.

    #8237
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    Time Lord

    Going back to Davison – it appears someone else shared my desire for a couple of Doctor/Nyssa stories.

    Patrick Ness has written the next of the Puffin stories, which are being released for the 50th anniversary. “Tip of the Tongue”:

    In 1945, a strange new craze for Truth Tellers is sweeping the kids of small-town America. The Fifth Doctor and Nyssa soon arrive to investigate the phenomenon, only to discover that the actual truth behind the Truth Tellers is far more sinister than anyone could have imagined…

    News Story here.

    As usual, the Guardian has featured a short extract:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/childrens-books-site/interactive/2013/may/07/doctor-who-tip-of-the-tongue-patrick-ness-extract?INTCMP=SRCH

    #8235
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    Time Lord

    @scaryb

    My – you are a hard task master! šŸ™‚ There will be another entry which is more of a “how to..” list. I have some things to tidy up and hope to get it checked with Craig and Jim before it goes live.

    As it’s you though, here is the smiley information link:

    http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Smilies

    #8158
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    Time Lord

    As we had a few comments on accents during “The Crimson Horror” may I draw the attention of the true connoisseurs of accent work to the BBC America original Drama ā€œOrphan Blackā€?

    I don’t think it has been shown over here yet, but I managed to see a few episodes (and a new series has been announced to follow it up). An overview of the show is here. It had me idly intrigued.

    Tatiana Maslany should be commended for some physical work in bringing different character quirks to various women who all look the same, but she and some of the support actors have some magnificent comedy accent work going on. Really hilarious.

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    @htpbdet

    Really great posts. I suggested this as a way we could explore what we thought of the various Doctors in whatever form you wanted, and they are exactly what I wanted to see.

    In the beginning, I couldn’t really say that much about Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee beyond some relatively simple comments. I experienced those on Video when I was much older and they could never have the same impact for me, being seen out of order, with elements missing and above all, that agonising break between episodes being absent! I have really enjoyed reading some of your thoughts, as well as @blenkinsopthebrave and @scaryb on those earlier years. You’ll note I became more effusive when talking about Baker and Davison because I can write those from that perspective.

    I intend to do some rewatching in the empty months between the finale and the 50th and perhaps those views you’ve all shared may give me an additional appreciation of the years I missed the first time round!

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    There is a non-spoilery interview (it features one image from the trailer broadcast from the various trailers) with Neil Gaiman. It covers his memories of the Cybermen, some ideas he had in earlier drafts, and some enthusiastic stuff about the show.

    http://www.sfx.co.uk/2013/05/07/exclusive-neil-gaiman-talks-doctor-who-and-cybermen/

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    Excellent links @chickenelly. For anyone who is interested, the general themes of preservation and display were pretty well covered by “History Cold Case”. For those who haven’t seen it a great little BBC factual programme about the work of an anthropology department looking at unusual Human Remains.

    The “mumified child” episode looks at a child specimen from the period and gives an overview of the way the bodies were obtained, including one charmer who decided to avoid the tedious business of waiting for people to die, and helped them along. One of your links discription of the blood being replaced by “a mixture of turpentine and vermilion” put me in mind of it, as the team tried to track down the likely creator of the body by comparing the chemical composition of the mixture against known recipes favoured by various embalmers.

    I found it fascinating. The episode is available on YouTube (about 60mins).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ot59Shbe2Y

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    @timeloop & @shazzbot

    ā€œHow exactly does the steam help Clara and the Doctor??ā€

    I think that may have been a joke about some Victorian attitudes to health. During that period a bath/health spa culture was established. Steam rooms became popular in the belief they “detoxified” the body (you sweated all the badness away).

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    @shazzbot

    Yes – the makeup job had to be difficult. I don’t know if you ever watched “Farscape” but Virginia Hey, who played a character called Zhaan, had to be written out because her body developed an accumulated toxic reaction to her makeup (it caused Kidney problems).

    I read an interview with Neve in which she said the duration of makeup work had become shorter over the time she has been in the show, which I guess she’s pretty thankful for.

    When they bought back the Silurians as an offshoot species of the classic era Who a lot of people complained about the look. I was OK with it, because it lends the ability to emote a little from behind the makeup. The design team had originally pitched a much more “traditional” update. If you’ve never seen it, here it is:

    Silurian concept

    I really don’t think Jenny would have been interested! šŸ™‚

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    Just rewatching and have to say Rachel Stirling is fantastic as Ada. Part of me wants her back with her travelling with her ā€œbeautiful monsterā€ for a while. That would really be a challenge for scriptwriters – introducing a character who is blind to the wonders of the universe. An encounter with the Weeping Angels?! Scary.

    Top marks to Neve as Vastra as well. While this episode let Catrin take the forefront both in action and asking the questions about Clara, I’ve noticed on repeat viewing that in a lot of scenes Vastra just stares at Clara as if dumbstruck. Even in the lift her focus appears on Clara.

    A spinoff really should happen. I think all three of them have made those characters so tangible it would be a crime not to. Keep it for a family audience, with a good balance of action and humour, playing with the period along the lines of Alan Moore’s ā€œLeague of Extraordinary Gentlemenā€ and it could be legendary. I think I’ll rewatch ā€œThe Snowmenā€ next to top up my Paternoster love!

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    @osakahatter

    The secret desire to move North must still exist today, because all over the South, the road signs all have directions to The North.

    Absolutely loved that explanation of the North-South divide! I thought “The North” stuff was well played and could serve as a useful pop at those Beeb people who have complained about the move to Salford and how ghastly it all is. šŸ™‚

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    Thanks @craig – I’ll finalise my notes and send them over. I was thinking a couple of Screen shots might be helpful for describing how to embeb video, etc. I’ll sort them out and forward tomorrow.

    Glad to have you back!

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    @badwulf (Welcome)

    Recently I’ve observed that fandom doesn’t seem to fond of the character, or the crowded TARDIS of that era – but to me it will always be the way the TARDIS ā€œoriginallyā€ looked!

    Yes – I wrote something similar on our “Faces of the Doctor” Thread. I think I stand by the comment, but it does read as if I disliked Tegan. I actually liked her frequent pops at the Doctor, and I think she was fantastic in the Mara stories.

    She could bloody whine in that first series though!

    ***As a fan, her anecdote about “popping out” of her boob-tube in the middle of television centre with Peter Davison gleefully running back to makeup made me weep with laughter. Janet Fielding is a class act***

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    Hi @scaryb

    I’ve been working on something for this (not forgotten) by working though threads to try to pick up issues. I think it could be useful, but didn’t want to disturb @craig as he was busy. When published I think it would be helpful if it could be linked to the front page, which Craig will have to do. I do intend to include conventions on spoiler information,because it concerns me as well in the lead up to the end of this series.

    Hope this is comfort.

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    @timeloop

    What is a mouthy Australian?

    I was laughing so much I actually misquoted. His line was:

    “I once spent a hell of a long time trying to get a gobby Australian to Heathrow airport,ā€

    It’s a callback to a character called Tegan who travelled mainly in the Fifth Doctors run. The Doc spent an entire series trying to get her back to Heathrow. He used to say “Brave heart Tegan” a lot, so “Brave heart Clara” in this episode. Here she is:

    tegan

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    @pufferfish

    A GALLIFREY VOWEL

    Loving that – although a slight re-arrange gives AW …. GALLIFREY LOVE which will keep the “Shippers” (as I think @pedant termed them) happy.

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    @bobbyfat

    Loved the sepia tinged flashback

    Oh – wasn’t that good? I loved that look for the flashback. Worked perfectly I thought. Mind – i was still chuckling from The Doc sweeping Jenny off her feet for a snog. šŸ˜€

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    Setting it in Bradford was a masterstroke for this episode. The Victorian values of “remaking society better.”

    In Bradford, Titus Salt established “Saltaire” for his workers at his mill, taking them out of slums into reasonable accomodation. Good stuff, but his attitudes to alcohol made it a “dry” township.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltaire

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