Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
26 December 2023 at 22:44 #75147
Robert Holmes… I meant ‘animal exploitation’ of course! How I hate spell check. I only looked up the other Lulubelles because I couldn’t believe it was down to Floyd + Geesin!
River could be prior to ‘Mel’ in ‘Let’s kill Hitler’… if the Silence and Long Joan Evil Cow had vortex manipulators. Cos it looks like that tech had got everywhere.
Susan’s last appearance was when she went back to her own time stream with gramps after The Five Doctors… but do we know where? Or if she thereafter got access to time travel tech? She was probably early in her regeneration cycle.
No. It’s never the Rani. I hope and pray it’s not The Loon… sorry Skeletor… er The Master. The Monk? Or rather Anchoress? The War Baroness? The Corsair?? We got to meet the Corsair sometime. Or another iteration of Tecteun/Awsok?
Flood. Flow. Flux… urghh. Gonna have to watch it ain’t I? Nooo…
Ashildr… yeah I’m on my own on this one but…
1. I think a civilisation with Time Tech would be over human/mire hybrid genetic material like flies, once they knew it was there
2. Why three? Three is a very curious number. In the Doctor’s terms three is neither an accident nor a coincidence.
3. Ashildr edited her own memory. She literally tore pages out.
’Why?’
’Dunno. I tore the pages out.’
26 December 2023 at 20:02 #75143WHO has left the flimsy realm of soft sci-fi and entered a whole new gooey and sticky universe. Maybe it’s just a Christmas Bauble Universe (see what I did there?) like a flagship tv show with a seasonal special stuck to it.
It’s not like that.
Observation: Lulubelle was the name of a blackface musical in the 1920’s and a related 1940s film (expurgated and whitened up). Also part of Country and western duo. Is that significant? Lulubelle III was name of the cow on the cover of Pink Floyd’s ‘Atom Heart Mother.’ RTD taking up racial politics or Robert Holmes style animal exploration protest. Seriously could be either. But not necessarily.
So, are we looking at an exploration of the Doctor’s origin prior to Tecteun and The Division, do you think? Have we heard Chibnall response to his ‘friend’ Rusty’s generous support yet?
I draw your attention to all these foundlings and Ashildr’s three cradles…
If you remember the Goblin King was not the first antagonist to end up impaled on a spire. The goblin ship was a bit Roger Dean I thought…
Loved the ‘Musical’ element. Was Bob Dylan a singer or a poet? A song a dance man, he claimed.
Mrs Flood… odds are on River I suppose. Surely that’s a bit prosaic and obvs for RTD? Susan Foreman… see I always thought she was the woman in The End of Time.
Surely not the Rani…
I thought it was very powerful… Chibnall’s derisory exposition given some meaning.
26 December 2023 at 10:30 #75138I mean ‘Before the Flood’!
26 December 2023 at 10:27 #75137there were no Tennant era Ice Warrior stories… as I’m sure you know. 1 for Smith/Coleman and 1 for Capaldi/Mackie. ‘After the flood’ was a Toby Whithouse story from the previous Capaldi season…
24 December 2023 at 19:23 #75111I have previously expressed my admiration for this Christmas special in these hallowed pages. Not all of the specials are worth watching EVERY year but this one and The Husbands of River Song are nailed on.
Some people don’t like the body count in VotD but you can’t crash Titanic/Poseidon Adventure and Aliens, with an extra nod to the best of Classic Tom Baker Who, and not have a few tagged toes.
Bring on The Goblins tomorrow!
Merry Christmas!
21 December 2023 at 10:37 #75091Chibnall’s historicals were generally the most positively received episodes from series 11 & 12, maybe because Chibnall didn’t write them (tho ‘Rosa’ was part written by him). ‘Tesla’: quite daft historical high-fiving. ‘Demons’ seemed to be a reworking of Testimony from ‘Twice Upon a Time’ (well, this happens on lots of stories). ‘Villa’ had great dialogue and George Byron with his tongue out, thereby contravening the Chibnall Boredom Protocol.
’Rosa’ seemed to be a worthy attempt with just a hint of being a bit worthy, though if the message was ‘racism is self conscious and always with us’ then you have to applaud it. But there you are: the episode is very difficult to critique and not because it’s perfect.
During lock down we had a ‘zoom’ family quiz and one question was about Rosa Parks: did her protest happen because she was: a communist; contravening the bus company’s regulations; had some history with that particular bus driver; or furious about the murder of Emmett Till?
The writer touched on 3 in the beginning but the answer seems to be unequivocally 4. If the writer had written this directly rather than alluding to it with Ryan’s scene, the episode would have been stronger. Bradley’s acting diffused an awkward scene. Is he an agent provocateur? A white guy doing the right thing for Rosa?
Perhaps the problem with historicals is there are too many smart Alecs.
19 December 2023 at 14:35 #75069take care Declan. You would think Christmas should be a time for peace, relaxation and healing. But it often doesn’t turn out like that.
🎅🏻🎄🥂🍩💤
18 December 2023 at 15:16 #75059I’m posting this here because there really does seem to be a word count issue on The Chibnall blog. Or maybe I need to be more succinct.
You are right. We shouldn’t make excuses for Chibnall finding it too difficult. There are lots of potential stories out there; but can they be used? Well that question pretty much defines the best of Who. Takes us somewhere good.
‘a story during the Suffragette era’; of course, history stories since The Highlanders (if you don’t count Black Orchid and I don’t) are really historical alien stories. Chibnall managed to get two historicals in both of his first two series. Personally, I can’t see why a pure historical couldn’t be done again. Yes, it’s either ‘you can’t change history’ vs ‘would you believe it, we changed history by mistake, but it worked out fine’ vs ‘watch out! History is happening and we’re in the way’ vs ‘we changed history a bit, but no-one noticed, and we learned a valuable lesson/felt good/bad about it.’ Or any combination of the above. Quite a wide field really. Lots of fams with problems in the past.
Well, very few of the pure sci-fi stories are really original, are they? We could always do with more history.
The suffragettes are particularly interesting because if you look at the Pankhursts it become a class story (ooh no we don’t want Cook voting!) and women got the vote because they followed the money and enabled patriarchal/imperialist total war. I reckon that could be a Moffat two-parter.
Time Lord society works when everyone can change gender; does it? Make any difference that is? Who we got: The Doctor’s foster mum? The Rani: geezerbird with nail polish; or Tecteun, if they’re not one and the same. The Soothsayer: two things you must know about the wise woman my lord, neither of which explains why she draws on her face with sharpies. I think you would basically be rewriting The Time Lords. Better than turning them into Cybermen.
Now hold on. CyberWOMEN?? Let us remember Seven of Nine had no trouble reading Ensign Kim’s mind.
The Doctor in a situation where traditionally masculine traits would have been a disadvantage: Surely this was the case since 10 blubbed at The End of Time?
Use the Master to contrast the Doctor’s experience; are they that dissimilar? There’s been too much Master. He’s just a loon.
Set a story in a female-led society: I can only think of The Minoans and they fell pray to rapists incorporated aka The Myceneans. Or the Kindans… I always wanted a full-on Mara story… one where the snake has been enthroned for so long that black is white, the rivers boil and cats live with dogs.
Otherwise, trad sci-fi hasn’t got a great record: all dumb role reversals and ‘there’s no one left; we hate each other too much to get jiggy.’ Though I’m sure Ursula Le Guin must have cooked up something good; problem is a nurturing stable female society doesn’t seem to be at much risk unless it’s from… nasty males from outside? Ah.
So, I’m afraid we might be looking at male dominated societies embellished by notable woman. Pericles/Aspasia: democracy is under threat from a bunch of military supremicists whose women are somewhat bizarrely more free than ours. Ah. Hypatia: a universally admired genius brutally slaughtered by a bunch of religious extremists. Mathilda and the Chaos: full on Lion in Winter; ‘Mum. I’ve decided to marry an older woman… who carries a knife’, ‘does a screwdriver count?’ Some of these ideas seem more relevant today than they would have five years ago.
Have a single, male, companion and explore how that relationship is similar to – and different – from the traditional set-up; 13 + closeted man perhaps? Or roaming the universe with Captain Jack, 13 patiently telling him she can’t stand him because he’s immortal (though apparently she is too… a bit hypocritical). And he really must stop treating sentient trees or super intelligent shades of the colour blue like pieces of meat.
You could even revisit additional sexes as per Azimov’s last truly great novel, ‘The Gods Themselves,’ or brain transplants as in Heinlein’s ‘I Will Fear no Evil’ (NOT like Spock’s Brain or Turnabout Intruder or New Earth).
Was it all too much for Chris?
Or he was told exactly what he could and couldn’t do? Let’s face it, some of the outlines above would have the three tabloids of the apocalypse frothing more than ‘Fury from The Deep.’
I do wonder about this last point. Was Chibnall the only one who would accept the brief? He was a competent enough writer before, but those three series seem to have been knocked off like he was waiting for the cheque.
17 December 2023 at 00:51 #75045Yes I mean of course 7 & Ace. Ace was the saving of 7; one reason I’m not that happy about Mel working for UNIT. Tell the truth I didn’t really watch much 7 at the time but I have caught up with series 25 & 26. 7 is manipulative and my impression was he doesn’t spare Ace.
Bradley was as badly served by Chibnall’s scripts as Whitaker, but the real problem is you can rarely get find enough dialogue for more than three protagonists in the Tardis. I suppose you love the Doctor you grew up with and maybe Chibnall really wanted to write his own Nyssa, Tegan, Adric, Turlough snooze fest. He tried it before in Hungry Earth/Cold Blood and we ended up with an unnecessary two parter.
But apart from the very occasional gem (and I DON’T mean Earthshock) series 19-21 were mainly notable for unintentional hilarity: Nyssa’s striptease in Terminus or Turlough, resplendent in very short shorts delivering ‘Best news I’ve heard all day’ in a manner that might have inspired Julian Clary. And the Myrka!
The bad taste and violence were then ramped up for Colin Baker. I loved it at the time; many stories were quite terrible but at least Peter Davidson wasn’t being a drip and I could put up with Peri’s accent. I suspect RTD always had a soft spot for that era; it’s like he’s still trying to bait Michael Grade.
Chibnall’s lack of humour was startling. Tim Shaw! Er. That’s it? You need a laugh track mate. It’s as if he never thinks someone might laugh at his work for the wrong reason, and so can’t nail down the right reason either.
Having said that I gave up after the Timeless Children.
NuWho companions… Karen Gillan had 2 modes (patter and moody) at last at that stage. Arthur Darvil deserves a mention. I have no issues with any Nu Who companions. If there’s a problem it’s people say ‘she ain’t Rose,’ (whoever it is and yes it’s always a she)… which is the point I was making.
I did like Pearl Mackie. That was a cracking season, with the exception of ‘Thin Ice’. But she made it.
16 December 2023 at 19:46 #75038Yes. Chibnall will be largely defined by the problems with 13. Although you won’t get anyone involved with show to admit this; no-one wants to lose the sale.
But Jodie Whitaker was unfairly served by her scripts. That’s down to Chibnall. And there were a lot of other problems.
Having said that, being DW showrunner is tough; a ‘Lady Doctor’ was going to be a particular problem and the reason for that is the 10/Rose furore. Classic didn’t have any kissy shenanigans did it?
Well… let us not forget that 4 and Romana 2 were actually an item in the real world, until they weren’t anymore, and it did look as if JNT was teasing Peter Davidson’s liking for the Nyssa character, but JNT wanted to sell Tegan to Australia and let’s face it, they couldn’t flush her away.
After that the entire cosmos could lust after Peri and her horrible costumes, courtesy of JNT’s humble opinion of what a straight dad might go for.
6’s relationship with Ace was a bit disturbing.
The thing is they all backtracked, finding reasons why an alien wouldn’t go for easy Earth girls…
Martha – unrequited
Donna – geezerbird
Amy – teased. She was keen but actually turned to be his mother in law. Pfft.
River – forget what came before… even more disturbing. Eyepatch lady could open a grooming class in a northern town.
Clara – again, teased but as it turned out improbably abstract, then platonic, and then I’m not sure. My own personal theory is she became the woman who moved in with 12’s mum. Embarrassin’.
Bill – gay. Safe. Though there was that ‘am I done?’ ‘Do you want to be?’ exchange. What was that about? Old man misjudgment? Forgot who he was, did 12?
Moff pushed it as far as he could really; what the hell was Chibnall to do with 13? Basically, she wasn’t a ‘Lady Doctor’ but a Trans Doctor. Inform the Daily Mail! And I reckon the corp was already looking for a streaming deal. Keep it clean. Make her a bit daft. Crowd the Tardis.
The obvious alternative was to make 13 asexual. ‘But you’re a woman.’ ‘Actually I’m an alien.’ Moff might have done it. I can see why the great or good might not like it. Or ignore the question: dump granddad, god he was annoying; they never did a thing with Ryan anyway; what could be safer than a reserved Community Support Officer taught by the Doc to be anything she wants to be? If she needed that. Cos it sounds a bit Craig from strictly.
It was tricky. Chris Chibnall was not the man.
15 December 2023 at 10:32 #75026Androgum chef prepared succulent half dressed nubile human companion Thermidor
Eric Seward’s cheesy Dalek surprise ala ‘Soylent Green’
Oi! You’re Scottish! Fry me some cheese!
Cardiff Bay Monterey Jack Welsh Rarebit
Cheese and Purple Celery
Carrot Juice
13 December 2023 at 10:39 #74995The Flux… still not watched that series. Definitely on my bucket list… probably somewhere toward the bottom.
The Timeless Children: observations…
I suspect Chis Chibnall was surfing tv tropes one day and discovered ‘I am become Woobie Destroyer of Worlds’ and thought ‘that looks like fun!’ What with the Logopolis farrago and The Reality Bomb, never mind the business with Trenzalore episode and Amy Pond’s disappearing Pandorica universe, it’s a wonder there’s anything left out there.
‘Big’ stories. Meh.
Also ‘flux’ sounds distinctive in a South Yorkshire accent. You need flux to solder yer plumbing. Flux was the medieval term for dysentery.
Oh well. Canon now. BUT… one reason exposition doesn’t work is that the audience can say ‘oh yeah. Sez who?’
The Master is a liar. The Master is a loon. The Master may have been led up the garden path.
And where did this Timeless Child come from anyway before he/she/it/they got sliced, diced and spliced?
13 December 2023 at 09:52 #74994King of hearts and 8 of clubs are much in evidence. Comparing the other cards with the cards on the image at the start of this thread, they seem to be random cards: various combinations of suits and numbers.
12 December 2023 at 19:22 #74989@juniperfish wow! Not expecting that level of analysis. Really thought it just signified McGann. If hearts/cups signifies a change, might it be a return to four’s more subversive methods?
@whohar … is it that we’re enthused by these new stories, to pick at these details, or is this another example of Chibnall’s inability to spin a yarn?
Also interested to see who RTD brings in as writers. Five episodes of series 14 yet to be announced says Wikipedia. Chibnall seemed to break with all the old writing crew from series 11. I was reminded of Robert Holmes extended break under Jonathan Nathan Turner.
<p style=”text-align: left;”></p>
11 December 2023 at 09:54 #74963Keys of Marinus was the fifth ever serial. Got to watch it… trying to… it’s a struggle. The Chase was in the 2nd series
11 December 2023 at 09:43 #74961Another observation: the Doctor and the Toymaker cut cards. The Toymaker cuts The King… make of that what you will
The Doctor cuts 8… Paul McGann?? Human on his mother’s side? Or it could it have been any card lower than The King. 14 didn’t cut 10 for instance.
So, is the King, Rassilon? Or just a high card?
Ooh Rusty, the Toyshop is a rich theme.
I’ve said it before but I could without Guardians of either shade. 2nd law of thermodynamics says the less reflective one wins. You might as well explode The Reality Bomb.
The BIG stories are the meh ones.
10 December 2023 at 22:26 #74942Try and find Shirley in that final shot of the helipad. And whose idea exactly was it to put machine guns in a wheelchair?
10 December 2023 at 22:23 #74941And ooh sir! Sir! Thought of something else, sir… that Max Capricorn guy in Voyage of the Damned… he had gleaming gold tooth too!
just a few barrels left to scrape. Nearly there.
10 December 2023 at 22:00 #74939I have STILL not seen Time and The Rani. Truth be told I have avoided it and not just because I didn’t like ‘Mark of’ much either. As I remember, the best thing was the disdain the character showed for The Master. But I’m not very excited by her potential return; as Timelords can change gender, I’d rather welcome back The Monk or The War Chief (without the shouty tho.)
The bioengineering aspect of Rani’s backstory is the most intriguing detail… as we’re stuck with some kind of narrative related to the Timeless Children, could the infamous Tecteun have become The Rani?
But I return to Stooky Sue and her ‘wee babbies’; I’ve read about Logic Baird’s other puppet, ‘James’, but Sue and the 3 babes would seem to be RTD’s own invention. So… surely they must mean something? Surely ‘Bill’ isn’t William Hartnell (actor) and ‘Sue’, Susan Foreman (character). I wonder if RTD didn’t have (and still has) his own Cartmel masterplan, developed in turn by Moff… and even maybe (rather less successfully) by Chib.
I don’t want Simm to reprise the Master. To tell you the truth ALL the Masters are quite overated. I don’t like good vs evil played like that; you might as well have black and white Guardians. It’s just tiresome. However the second and third iterations of Simm’s Master were things of wonder: could have done without the Prisoner Cell Block H resurrection scene (even RTD can misread the campometer sometimes) but; ‘you’re going to BE ME!!’; ‘I want EVERYTHING! I’m SO hungry!’ Rescuing the ridiculous Kalid transformation from Time Flight in World Enough and Time…
Otherwise… not really sure what Mel was doing there… I wondered when she was going to switch on her Megabyte Modem, unless it was The Vinx was looking after that singular piece of extraordinarily advanced equipment? And, by the way, The Vinx… what? WHAT? Why? I suppose we’ll find out…
But Mel… like The Rani stories, she’s not remembered fondly in this neck of the Whoniverse. Now, rescuing Peri from the clutches of Yrcanos would have been an interesting story. Maybe Nicola Bryant wouldn’t do the cod yank accent anymore… they might have had to get a super intelligent slug to wipe her mind!
10 December 2023 at 00:26 #74915Ok! Lots going on there. So much so it was almost more early Moff than classic, overblown, season ending Rusty…
Red fingernails? I really dunno if the Rani was noted for the red finger nails. I think I might find it demeaning to find out… I mean we are talking about Pip and Jane Baker here.
We had a blurry shot of Kate and Mel leaving the helipad with a soldier, but what happened to Shirley Bingham? Has she got a super overdrive for her wheels, or was she smooching all the while behind the big gun with the singular name, the one that should have finished off 10/14?
Lots of characters… why are they there? Why is Shirley there?
More importantly, can I draw your attention to Stookie Sue and her THREE orphaned wee babbies? Three is such a powerful number. Who could ever question the number 3? Remember Rassilon, Omega, The Other? Most Whovians have forgotten the poor girl made immortal through no fault of her own. And the three cradles over which she wept as the Black Death raged…
We all saw the fun The Toymaker had with the puppets of the Doctor’s friends…
9 December 2023 at 10:52 #74868VotD must be a top 3 Christmas special. Titanic, Poseidon, Aliens, Robots of Death, ‘Keel him!’…
Love it
I assume the Host represent parallel cyber evolution. They are really extraordinarily similar to the SVs, Vs & D’s that Taren Capel liked to inject with gigantic glowing red syringes. Or the Titanic was a time ship…
Oh for a return to Androzani! Or a prequel. I have read somewhere that it was supposed to be from the same era as the RoD civilisation. Meet the young brilliant Sharaz Jek and creepy yuppy Morgus. Maybe program police robot D84 so it can survive a deactivator blast.
Anyway, glad to know someone else enjoys a Christmas binge. Bring on The Snowmen, Last Christmas, The Husband of River Song and even Dr Mysterio
8 December 2023 at 23:30 #74865I have finally just watched WBY…
Why were people going on about Isaac Newton? Really? Why???
And all this stuff about the influence of Midnight… what about The Waters of Mars??
Loved it. Not sure about the Timeless Children thing, because that was about the stage in the Chibnall cycle when my brains started leaking from my ears.
But yes Timelords… species fluid ☑️ or wherefor River Song??
8 December 2023 at 17:09 #74852plagiarising yourself though?! I suggest this makes Geoff the David Bowie of the Middle Ages.
I love the bit in the HotKoB where Ambrosius favourite hangout is a holy place named after… himself?? (Cloister of Ambrius). Must have inspired Burroughs (and so Bowies’) cut-up lyric method.
8 December 2023 at 16:47 #74851remember… Mr Copper’s degree in Earthonomics came from Mrs Golightly’s Happy Travelling University and Dry Cleaners.
7 December 2023 at 17:41 #74841twas none other than The Black Adder that labelled Geoff one of the great liars of history (Henry vii being almost as bad). My use of the adjective ‘kind’ is very relative here. Barbieri thought it was mostly nonsense too.
Miles Russell in ‘Arthur and the Kings of Britain’ shows that Geoff copies and pastes biographical details from other ancient geezers into the Arthurian account. Yes he did, but we only know this because Geoff covered all these other ancient geezers too. He wasn’t trying to give Arthur the credit for things they did, just selling what was presumably by then (say 600 years later) a very sketchy story to his Norman lords and masters.
7 December 2023 at 09:25 #74836Celtic myth… that reminds me of Julian May’s Pliocene Epic (The Golden Torc etc)…
Otherwise, this is an interesting link, comparing the earliest iterations of Arthurian myth with Irish legend:
http://www.facesofarthur.org.uk/fabio/book6.3.htmbasically the Vortigern story in Nennius is shown to be pretty much identical to the legendary fall out of Conn marrying Becuma; not that one proceeds from the other, it’s just that as a bard, if you wanted to hold your Mead Hall’s attention, you had to honour certain forms – wicked foreign women, lusty, venal usurpers, perfect sacrificial boys and tiny totemic monsters. Not to do so would be like playing ELP at the Wigan Casino.
Barbieri’s work was never actually published as far as I’m aware and it’s 20 years old; Miles Russell has shown he’s far too kind to Geoffrey of Monmouth who really was a monumental liar
6 December 2023 at 16:42 #74832’JHK??’ I meant JFK but you knew that.
I suppose when Jack met Harold it was an international changing of the guard… in particular I’m referring to Jack’s infamous reveal of his favourite preventative migraine cure. Maybe he was trying to wind up Harold not realising the son of empire was already mentally scarred by Robert Boothby.
6 December 2023 at 01:07 #74825I think as far as Harold MacMillan was concerned JHK might as well have been.
I think Chibnall was under strict instruction to not go there. They’ve got their bloody female. Now just fill the Tardis with idiots so no-one asks awkward questions. We all love ‘Villa’ but it IS the story where Byron makes a pass at the Doctor… a bit sad really.
and now the eye-candy’s back!
5 December 2023 at 22:45 #74817Clearly, Isaac Newton needs to be played by an asexual, neurodivergent actor.
A Regency AU where the British rescue and then fete Toussaint L’ouverture would be worth watching. It would have to be a very alternative AU though.
A white MLK? Do I/you/anyone really want to go there? Bobby Kennedy doesn’t count I suppose. Otherwise, the BBC knew how to stage a show like that until 1978…
1 December 2023 at 14:42 #74723I hereafter declare the ‘London Town’ a rabbit hole. I’ll be putting out cones and yellow/black tape and email the council.
1 December 2023 at 11:42 #74720safe to say lots of Brit songs use the form ‘London Town’ sometimes to rhyme or scan no doubt, sometimes as a regional dig at parochial insular London. RTD might be making the latter point (well we certainly ain’t in Cardiff or Sheffield anymore, Toto!) otherwise the real question is why should he use the phrase? No one says ‘London Town’ from day to day.
I think it’s a bit like ‘Gotham City’… there’s a comic strip element creeping in. And I think it’s a little bit meta too. And it’s a form of lampshading… look at me, look at my clunky tongue in cheek language and improbable representation of Britain created to serve the story.
As the Dreamlord might say; ‘it’s a story…’
29 November 2023 at 21:21 #74706William Hartnell was remarkable… and it was a tricky brief, because he obviously revelled in the curmudgeonliness of the role, but he was also disappointed by most of the scripts I think… been trying to watch ‘The Keys of Marinus’… by Terry Nation no less, and it’s tough.
My first doctor was Patrick Troughton. I don’t remember much… just to be very very scared. Fury from the Deep was the stuff of nightmares, apparently. Ask the Australian censor. Loved it tho!
John Pertwee was too gimmicky. Good actor, some good scripts but it didn’t always come together. Tom Baker is The Doctor… but his interpretation changed: the witty playful Doctor of the wonderful Leela run is I think what people remember. He was bitter and bored by the end.
Davison was a great actor saddled with insipid scripts, whereas the other Baker is unfairly mocked; his scripts were outrageous and sometimes downright terrible and he hammed it all up wonderfully: more than a bit of Tennant there. Lots of people like McCoy. There were some good stories there… people here have been talking about Curse of Fenric, and it was good.
Nu Who…? It’s a shame they couldn’t keep Ecclestone on board. His doctor was better than his MacBeth anyway. I thought Peter Capaldi had the most convincing journey.
Classic Who… I haven’t seen anything yet to make me doubt Troughton.
Enjoy!
29 November 2023 at 13:48 #74703London Town… to tell the truth I didn’t actually notice that one. There were worse anachronisms. Maybe someone wanted ‘London, England,’ in Moff style letters and what we got was an acceptable compromise.
I ain’t really bothered. Mind you, if it had been Chibnall, I would be frothing at the mouth! I’m afraid this is the way it will be… you takes the money and you break out the star-spangled paint.
But there were more examples; I’m sure RTD must be making a meta nod to the True Brits. Sorry guys. Can’t be parochial anymore. Just stoopid.
28 November 2023 at 18:38 #74688you’re thinking of Colin Morgan. He was also Merlin… in Merlin!
Dark with cheekbones like Lee van Cleef… so not dissimilar to Benedict
28 November 2023 at 17:29 #74687Transatlanticisms? This was written by RTD… script editor Scott Handcock… Welsh/english… difficult to see how egregious Americanisms could be a deliberate ploy. Or are we saying some unnamed Disney suit is telling them: ‘hey! You don’t have to go to Port Talbot for steelworks. We just gotta a vague idea you’re next to Yoorp; or ‘Americans don’t get loft extensions. Jeez why don’t you guys just build bigger houses?’
Though Tennant does favour the non kosher cockerney cliffs of Ham, I admit. Could this be the end of the regionally accented doctor??
this is all nit-picking. It was great! This be the Fam I like.
Still like to know how long the BBC were pitching Who to prospective streaming networks with deep pockets. Might explain a lot about late Moff and then Chibnall..?
26 November 2023 at 18:24 #7465326 November 2023 at 15:33 #74648There’s no doubt about it.
fools register to troll; to flog crypto; to smish and phish and catfish. Welcome to your world customer! It might make a good Who script/arc. Wanna see THOSE plushies!
Otherwise the subscript is ‘hurry up and die granddad.’ Not very original. And it assumes no one in the future will be able to change their minds. Das ist verboten, Tommy!
Yes. There was a message last night. This IS RTD! Was it playing to a (very small) gallery? He’s saying what he wants to say, as always. You need freedom: to think, to relax, to live. And what you do in your private life is, believe it or not, private.
Why should the generation who thought they would live forever, who were super-powered by the welfare state and then want to cut it because a fat blonde fool said that might get them tax-cut, then decide to hate the generation who will inherit? Your world customer.
Last night… wasn’t it Good!? Churlish to say bits were rushed. It was NOT a Chibnall era soap driven yawn fest. Hallelujah! But the editing might have been kinder… finding the Meep, the ‘Donna is binary! And alive’ reveal. I suspect Disney will run the full 1.5 hour cut.
Exposition? There was some recap. No Family of Blood/End of Time/Time of the Doctor stylee earnest voice overs (I hate it when that happens).
I do have a problem with a mythical Britain in which there are steel plants in the south east and yet as many as five houses in a row have no loft extensions. What kinda AU is that?
Otherwise a veritable triumph.
The Boss though? You’d think it would be The Toymaker. But I did like the War CHIEF in the the War Games (when he wasn’t shouting at the security mob). Just a thought…
24 November 2023 at 16:17 #74596We seem to have been invaded by cyber ijits. Including crypto twats. Enjoy DW day guys and gals!
23 November 2023 at 22:31 #74584Doctor Iou
I like the image! Got it three times! Not complaining. Not really understanding either… Daleks doing ‘I want to break free?’
Classic Who… what to watch? Fury from the Deep may be animated but it has the reputation of being the scariest ever. So scary that only the bits that the Australian censors excised survive!
If you like Daleks, I always thought the Cult of Skaro, The Army of Ghosts, Daleks in Manhattan through to Journeys End, ruled.
“We imagined your obsolescence!” “Daleks have no concept of elegance.” “You are superior in only one respect… dying!” “Exterminieren!”
21 November 2023 at 10:40 #74567Doctor Iou, yes! For the first time in years, I am excited. The teasers look great.
Celestial Toymaker… intriguing choice of antagonist. What exactly is the Toymaker supposed to be?
If you don’t count the Keys of Marinus, ostensibly sci fi, this was the first DW venture into fantasy, also explored by Two in The Mind Robber. The genre disappears for the Three. The Guardians are a bit fantastical, as was The Greatest Show On Earth. Under Moff, Amy’s Choice and even The God Complex would seem to dabble, but RTD’s go-to genre was previously straight sci fi (of various states of squidgyness) with the odd foray into history.
Of course, The Toymaker was due to appear in the abandoned season 23 scripts scheduled for 1986, when Micky Grade discovered the power the Who. But he would eventually scoff his undercooked revenge ready meal three years later.
So, yes, I’m firing up my trusty meta-detector! What is the message here? Rusty’s back, no holds barred and he knows where the bodies are buried. Unleash the power of your imagin-A-shun shun shun! The board of governors can get romantic with a talking paving slab?
17 November 2023 at 21:13 #74555@dentarhturdent
I will get to The Pilot…
Spyfall was the point at which I started to lose a grip on Chibnall’s Who. Not a fan of Bond anyway, and horrified by the introduction and subsequent dismissal of Noor Inayat Khan. What??? I more or less had to force myself to watch the following series 15 minutes at a time, just to stop myself grinding my teeth.
Asylum of the Daleks was better than your average curate’s egg. Indeed: Soufflé Girl! Eggs! Stir! Mmm n Eat! Loved the scene with Arthur Darvill and crazy Dalek. I probably enjoyed the second half of series 7 more. Akhaten looked good but really was abysmally slight; Centre of the Tardis, unfairly criticised; Nightmare in Silver should have been a two-parter. It is probably easier to introduce a new companion than dispose of your wife’s parents!
I loved The Pilot. Watched that one more often than any other episode in the excellent series 10.
Nardole literally having a screw loose. “I fatted her.” “You got a knock through.” “It’s like a kitchen!” Pearl Mackie is great! I thought she settled into her part more easily than Jenna Coleman as Clara.
I always wondered if there was more behind the scene with Bill noticing the pictures of Susan Foreman and River Song on Twelve’s desk… he’s holding Missy captive at the university where Bill is working in the canteen but she attends all his lectures. Is Twelve a brilliant teacher, or is she brilliant… or is she something else?
Rosie Jane (her deceased mum) also played an unnamed Gallifreyan in Day of The Doctor. These bloody thesps get everywhere!
16 November 2023 at 09:46 #74547Yes, history was originally my field. It was a long time ago and the economic imperatives behind Victorian locomotive design was one of my more obscure studies. I suppose I still get fed up that everyone thinks Nigel Gresley is great (and I’m not saying he wasn’t quite good) but have never heard of George Churchward.
I keep a jaundiced and (hopefully) informed eye on freaky interpretations on tv. Richard Miles’ Ancient Worlds from about years back was excellent: refreshingly orthodox though the end was a bit of a cop out.
I did use lockdown to study Arthur and post Roman Britain: the gap between the freaky amateurs and the academics (who really don’t want to know) yawns. You can get translations of contemporary sources online (though some may be a century old). There’s a lot of interesting, unknown stuff out there.
I would say Power of Three is Chibnall’s best, his earlier nod to EE doc Smith on 42 notwithstanding. Kind of says it all; he’s no Moffat or Mathieson is he?
I even liked Steven Berkoff’s performance!
15 November 2023 at 11:33 #74545Hi! I hesitated to mention Arthur. It’s just a name used to sell books about the dark ages. Many current academics will only rely on archaeology and virtually ignore mythology; they have their funding to think of and really don’t need to be associated with utter nonsense.
Having said that there are two very good candidates for Arthur, neither of them imperial exactly but a cut above your average British ‘Teyern’. I leave it there.
Better not comment on locomotives either…
Of course the Ptolemaic dynasty had far fewer Greek ancestors than the owner of the kebab shop down the road but only because they had the SAME single Greek ancestor a few generations back. The 25th dynasty (C8th BC) probably had darker colouration than the modern Egyptian genotype and, yes, skin colouration is something modern North Africans are sensitive about.
Sculpture of Septimus Severus make him look very North African, and the Roman empire was a melting pot but this was a slave society doubtless with racial discrimination on the basis of colour. After that most people became serfs before Western Europe decided to industrialise slavery again (and indeed industrialise.)
Mesolithic Cheddar man had genetic markers for dark skin and blue eyes. His people were swamped by paler skinned Middle Eastern farmers who were in the turn replaced by the bronze bashing Yamana mob.
Race is a nonsense and a problem!
George III was an enlightened despot but he weren’t no democrat. Nicer than Fred or Catherine (ooh you are so Great) but he was looking after the people only because they were his livestock and cash crop. Britain could have won in North America by giving in to calls for representation and so dividing the loyalists from the radicals. But that would have been politically inconceivable.
I really didn’t like Dinosaurs on a Spaceship; Riddell was obviously there to bag a tricerotops. Chibnall tries to play fast and loose with political correctness ala Rusty but inevitability comes across tone-deaf. On the other hand I thought thought the Power of Three quite good.
Slightly surprised no-one has yet tried to make out Akhenaten and Nefertiti were aliens…
14 November 2023 at 11:08 #74535yes! The golden arrow! Only mind-boggling bad science can trump nerdy ‘bet you didn’t know…’ historical observation that is normally disproved a decade later.
I’m sure a C13th Robbin’ Hoodie looked just as suspicious and ubiquitous as they do today. And what better alias to invoke if you were out of favour with the state? No need to deploy either Tardis or myth. Though I still think the former might be more fun than a golden arrow.
The term ‘myth’ is deployed too easily. Normally, we don’t have much of the relevant history – it’s gone – just a lot of very ancient wordsmiths who made something they thought plausible and entertaining from whatever facts they had to hand (but we don’t). Decent textual analysis can normally boil away the tosh.
For instance, Vortigern and Ambrosius are regarded as ‘mythical’ but they were both without doubt real people from a very long time ago about whom a lot of (occasionally entertaining) guff has subsequently been written.
Of course, a historian also needs to think very carefully before they make something plausible or entertaining from whatever facts THEY have to hand.
Though you would think entertainment and plausibility should be essential for a Who writer!
13 November 2023 at 18:39 #74528hi @dentarturdent
Without a doubt nothing sucks as hard as a phrase such as ‘the end of time ITSELF!’ or ‘the reality bomb!’
I wonder where the universal threat trope originates. Having a race which can manipulate time goes a long way there but, although Doctor One is very down on actually manipulating time (The Aztecs and The Time Meddler), the nature of the threat if Time is changed is not explored at that point (though I need check I player I suspect).
The eventual appearance of The Lords in The War Games (a bit long but not too much… main problem being shouty scenery chewing) is essentially a humanitarian intervention inspired by Two, but thereafter they become micromanagers with Four as their favourite agent.
The first identified ‘universal’ threat is Kronos in The Time Monster then, despite temporal shenanigans on the part of The Sontarans, there’s nothing until The Guardians and The Key of Time. The Guardians represent another major gripe of mine: pseudo religion by the agency of superpowerful beings who seem to exist for no very good reason but that’s my personal rejection of anything of anything more mystical than agnosticism.
After that it seemed to be end of the universe twice a series, well there’s Logopolis… ‘entropy is killing the universe!’ Er, yes? I think you’ll it pretty much defines it, actually. Then there’s Terminus, which surely is only saved from the ultimate Who crud list by Sarah Sutton prancing around in her slip.
There must be more… Terminus, ludicrous though it is, may be the key though… this (the 70’s & 80’s) is the period in which the Big Bang finally displaced Steady State.
Yes, smaller stakes are always more comfortable.
Thought… does this also relate to the death of Historical stories; once The Lords are on the block they all become historical fantasy stories (yeah? Prove me wrong). This what really annoyed me about The Robot of Sherwood: Robert Hode would seem to be genuinely time paradox: an attested retainer for Edward ll who understandably got a bit depressed and then rocks up… a century earlier?? Not kidding, attested again! Two Robert Hode’s? Or a stowaway on The Tardis?
What a wasted opportunity!
12 November 2023 at 11:34 #74523@dentarthurdent @janetteb @oochillyo
Is there a real claim a primacy for the ‘internal logic’ of Who or any other show? The result is always a compromise between the writer, the director, the producer, the ‘chemistry’ between the characters, production constraints (severe in the case of classic who) and the response to public or establishment criticism.
It’s a wonder any coherent shows are/were made! You certainly need a strong show runner like RTD to beat the various elements into shape. But some shows seem better than others or why are we talking about this?
Personally, with regards to Who, my position is close to Chris Bidmead’s… it’s sci fi, rather than space opera or fantasy. And it certainly shouldn’t be soap! It’s also not horror though it can rightly horrify occasionally. You are welcome to disagree but if the science is bad, the story probably will be too.
‘Kill the Moon’… urghh. ‘Forest of the Night’? Not much better. ‘Robot of Sherwood,’ had other problems. Otherwise a great series.
Unfortunately sci fi is largely about ideas rather than characters and admittedly Bidmead’s approach in the early 80’s wasn’t a roaring success.
Right! This is where the companions come in, and antagonists too, if the story is up to scratch. Monsters can also transform a show but producers tend to insert them into excellent stories which don’t need them: Primords and Magmabeasts, if they had looked effective that would be a different matter but one was the victim of bad speculative science and the other a man who hadn’t enough time to rehearse in his rubber suit.
When it comes to companions, more is definitely less. You would think Chibnall would have learned that from the ‘crowded Tardis’ era. Dimensional transcendentality reduces multiple characters to cliche and two dimensions. You couldn’t cram in enough dialogue for four main (quite unpopular) characters into the 1.5 hour stories of the 1980’s; Chibnall had no chance in 45 minutes. I understand why he wouldn’t want to have a novel woman doctor playing against a sole companion, but facing down/ignoring any stupid speculation generated by a single female companion, say, would have been far preferable to the worthy lampshading ‘Fam’.
11 November 2023 at 16:48 #74516<p style=”text-align: left;”>@blenkinsopthebrave…</p>
corrupt British governments? Steady on! You’ve got Inferno to come. Suella with a eyepatch anyone?Speaking of the generally gripping and inventive Inferno, why exactly make the Primords zombie werewolves? If they’e supposed to be adapted to heat, shouldn’t they be reptilian or arthropoid? Mind you Sergeant Benton’s transformation would then be even more horrific. And, ultimately, less hilarious.
9 November 2023 at 10:16 #74510I didn’t realise that Season 2 is almost complete! I do need to check out the first Doctor. I don’t remember Hartnell’s ‘interpretation’, though using that term is a retcon really because as far as he was concerned he WAS the Doctor; no one had even considered regeneration. But still important in respect to continuity.
The production values of classic Who were very different. Ridiculous monsters, dodgy sets, scenery chewing thesps; they often had to put up with the first take to save time and film.
Personally, I’m visiting the faves and ignoring the stiffs, though I may eventually investigate the four catastrophes of the eighties: Time Flight; Twin Dilemma; Time Lash & Time and the Rani.
wish me luck!
7 November 2023 at 23:03 #74494Not forgetting The Romans from season 2. Duh!
7 November 2023 at 22:51 #74493Hi @oochillyo!
the Girl Who Died as an episode was problematic though the story was fascinating. Same with Woman Who Lived but even more problematic; I really didn’t like Parsley the Lion and pals. The main attraction was the content of Me’s journals – see the post on sofa 11.
Vikings! I met an American ‘Viking’ actor at the Jorvik centre in York… and missed the opportunity to call him a Vinland viking. All the way across the North Atlantic in an open boat with no gps! Also the depopulation of the Greenland colonies is a pretty wild bit of history.
Romans in Dr Who… not many to choose from: The Eaters of Light, The Romans in Pandorica Opens were Autons of course, Fires of Pompei (where Twelve got his mug) and a brief look at the Roman Army in The War Games… that’s it! Are these the Romans you’re sorry for? Or were you taking of something else? What is worse: no plumbing, or plumbing that gives you brain damage?
-
AuthorPosts
