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1 January 2024 at 10:52 #75211
I meant ‘The Girl who Died’; ‘The Girl who Waited’ was Tom MacRae; that was very good, ‘The God Complex’ too, a strong return after ‘Let’s Kill Hitler’ aka the day the Third Reich disappeared.
I always wondered if ‘Midnight’ was a steal from AC Clarke’s A Fall of Moondust… just a bus full of tourists versus an incredibly hostile environment tho, no synchro talking spooky monsters.
I don’t think the writers were entirely Chibnall’s choice… remember Gatiss’ and Whithouse’s farewell turns in Twice Upon a Time? The structure of the corporation changed after 2016… no more channel controllers, more goal oriented execs; not making a point other than they were trying to create change. As Savil and Bashir and the salary row unraveled, it was needed. But did WHO suffer? Mainly from Chibnall’s own writing really.
The problem comes from the nature of the show. Is it sci fi, fantasy, contemporary commentary, kids show? We’ve been round the houses on this before. No wonder execs thought ‘soapy family drama? Good pitch!’
1 January 2024 at 09:53 #75210Q & The Pit, the film is a bit Hammery, and die-hard fans criticised it, but I thought it delivered.
I don’t remember the tv show. Spike Milligan lampooned the original version in ‘The Scarlet Capsule’
”unexploded German skulls? I hadn’t thought of that…”
1 January 2024 at 01:03 #75205Chibnall. Whitaker. I won’t start ranting again. Everyone is probably being a bit unfair, conscious of a previous show runner who may have saved the show for a few years but ultimately got it cancelled. We don’t want that again. The people involved with the show don’t either, so they stay schtum and we won’t find out what went on for a few years.
Speculation: was there a real continuing Cartmel masterplan, expanded later by RTD and Moff to reflect the earlier cancellation? Chibnall either didn’t get it or was told (and Moff too) that they couldn’t do that? The BBC under Tony Hall was having a big shake up. It was time for less meta. Less Mail baiting. More diversity in production. Fewer jobs for mates. You can see why a safe writer like Chibnall would get the nod off the back of his mega hit. Or, if the management were really interfering, was he the only one willing to give it a go?
It’s hard to see why Chibnall would want to ape JNT… but he oversaw the loss of strong co-writers, the crowded Tardis (aka the fam) and a difficult characterisation for 13. It’s downright spooky!
I started watching series 11 with interest. Which dwindled. I was appalled by Spyfall. The next series was no better. I gave up with the Timeless Children. Exposition! No! It never works. Exposition almost ruined the otherwise excellent Human Nature/The Family of Blood.
I should watch Flux I suppose, but… are there the hours in the day? It struck me that this arc might be a rehash of The Silence and eyepatch woman. Was the exploding Tardis (never really explained) meant to be another aspect of the flux? Can I be bothered to check? The big stories are meh.
The thing is, this doesn’t explain the character of 13. She was, I’m afraid, a little bit annoying, mainly because of the fam, but Whitaker herself must have had some doubts. There is that resemblance to Shona from Last Christmas – a well written character acted brilliantly. Is it a case of a former potential companion first ditched and then grown into a new Doctor? Except they couldn’t make it work?
Bad time to have a fail!
31 December 2023 at 16:19 #75200If 60’s sci fi is to anyone’s taste, I just got back from the gym to see ‘Quatermass and The Pit’ on the schedules. Genuinely terrifying. Recording the second half.
Reluctant to watch ‘Chicken Run’ because the gits told Julia Sawalha she was too old. As a voice artist. Don’t chickens get old? Almost mentioned Mel Gibson’s tendencies there… breathe. Breathe.
I might watch ‘Withnail and I’ tonight, just to hear Brian Jone’s percussion at the start of ‘All along the Watchtower.’
31 December 2023 at 16:02 #75199@dentarthurden
Flatline was… as good as you could get in 45 minutes. I fully expected the return of The Boneless, once they’d mastered the dimension of time. The only issue was their motive.
I always admired Asimov’s ‘The Gods Themselves’; the problem of communicating with the truly alien when, as Wittgenstein kinda said, ‘if a lion could speak, you wouldn’t understand him.’
One of the worst aspects of the reign of Chris (and maybe not his doing) was Mathieson was cast out into the cold: The Mummy, Flatine, The Girl, Oxygen… some would say, as sci-fi, all four were better than half of Moffat’s output.
31 December 2023 at 10:44 #75197Black Orchid… I checked! Well the first 2 minutes anyway. The Tardis materialises at The Buckinghamshire Railway Centre. We get a brief glimpse of a 2 cylinder GW tank. I think it must be a guest loco or this was a composite shot because their current 7200 class is not yet fully restored and only left Barry Island in 1981.
Maybe there’s more footage later in the story, but checking involves risking exposure to Davison’s “I can’t be a murderer because I’m actually a time travelling alien. You see?” ploy which might result in irreversible brain damage.
30 December 2023 at 20:01 #75193Black Orchid… 5 matierialised the Tardis at an actual railway station. Can’t remember a train. I could check on I-player but, well, that was Black Orchid.
George Stephenson made an appearance in Mark of the Rani but without Locomotion or Rocket I’m sure.
Dimension robbed by The Boneless, a itsy bitsy teeny Tardis nearly got pranged by some Bristolian suburban stock in Flatline.
30 December 2023 at 11:50 #75191Apparently Taw Valley was used to promote the books, but Christopher Columbus thought it looked too ‘modern’
You can paint a Hall red. The newly inaugurated British Rail painted a ‘King’ blue!
Tom Anderson: “ain’t you the kids who painted my King blue?”
Butthead: “no no no…”
Beavis: “we made you sell your house and then rented it out!”
30 December 2023 at 00:45 #75188@mallow
Someone else made the point that the appearance of the goblins may be related to the line of salt in Wide Blue Yonder… I am reminded of Time Bandits and the heroes’ drift out of history into the realm of fantasy. So… yes the ship disappears. It wasn’t particularly robust was it?
Was the ending abrupt? When it comes to WHO it’s not just RTD who is guilty. This is the nature of the show. It’s speculative, timey-wimey and you don’t want too many two parters. Moffat had the thing about the ‘big red reset button.’ Might be a bit meta, might be a bit of lampshading but this is not typical of his strongest writing.
The brilliant ‘Mummy on the Orient Express’ had a strangely truncated explanation at the end. Did they run out of time? Probably. Wouldn’t the business of rescuing everyone have been a bit prosaic? Matthieson and Moffat gave Capaldi a facetious line. Job done
It should be a fast moving show. Do you really want Jodie and Bradley grinding on about what everything means every week?
30 December 2023 at 00:19 #75187Film adpaptions…
I have two theories about The Hogwarts Express:
1. The GWR actually sent 2 Castles to be tested against Gresley’s A3’s but the magical world liked them so much they snaffled one, obliviated everyone and painted it red.
2. It’s supposed to be a rebuilt Royal Scot. Kings Cross… St Pancras…
In any case, the closest Warner Bros could get was a Hall class.
However, I admit no one has yet come up with an explanation of what the rev Awdry’s ‘James the Completely Unrealistic Engine’ is supposed to be.
27 December 2023 at 23:15 #75172The other thing I really really liked was RTD’s deployment of the lampshade.
”What are you doing? Do you usually grab rope ladders descending from the sky?” (I may not have that word for word)
Reality of the situation… quite correct
Get the Doc to say it… and it has been said. No going back now. Cut!
He saved the show twice. And he’s getting better.
But @jimthefish is perfectly correct. Apart from the magnificent VotD and (bits of) The End of Time, RTD’s old Xmas specials could be a bit meh. This one had promise and tied in unanswered questions from late Moff and Chib.
27 December 2023 at 23:01 #75171<p style=”text-align: left;”>@dentarthurdent</p>
Yes. I should probably read Fleming. What am I saying? I really haven’t the stomach for it.The best of ‘The Schoolboy’ leads from Le Carre research into the state of Indo China in 1975. He was apparently so horrified that he abandoned his publisher’s wishes for a longer Tinker Tailor arc. Hence the hurried and almost comic book account of the newly arisen Circus under Smiley.
Westerby’s travails are easier to read. And for him to write perhaps, even before we get to the story of Liz Worthington. Perhaps the secret of producing THS would be to tell it from the pov of Mrs Hibbert, or her daughter, or Connie Sachs, Mrs Pelling, or Lizzie, or the Orphan, Val Lacon, Molly Meakin, even Anne Smiley herself. And that’s just the Caucasian girls.
Then get the geezers ponce about like the big bankers they are!
Are you going to move on to Fleming from there?
27 December 2023 at 14:18 #75165<p style=”text-align: left;”>That should read ‘The Honourable Schoolboy was the sequel to Tinker Tailor (the book) – sadly never adapted, and pretty flawed.’</p>
Don’t post on the bus!27 December 2023 at 13:48 #75164sorry, the handle is an infeasible mix of letters and digits. My advice is type @ and copy the rest from the ‘grey’ unhyperlinked name from the previous email.
Some adaptation leeway is essential. Haydon is shot in the film. In the tv adaptation Prideaux rabbit punches him. In the book you just don’t know but Prideaux has previously ‘humanly’ killed an owl by breaking its neck. At least he didn’t get fed feet first into an industrial. As we all know only Saddam Hussein had one of those… that’s according to The Mail.
I’m not sure if Le Carre was conscious of the innuendo of Guillam’s girl being a very tall flute player (I’m not making this up) but a lot of his fans were blissfully ignorant and when Smiley warns his fellow conspirators to keep their loved ones well away the film shows ‘Cam’ to be a fellah. The warning didn’t happen in the film; it was a little fraught to tell the truth – were the 70’s really to expect a Soviet style pogrom of Rules, Minor Public Schools and Magdalene College?
Le Carre is developing a posthumous reputation for writing sexual diversity and ‘women’ badly: Roddy Martindale is a bit Fast Show. The women are given some good lines and are reasonably diverse but it’s a man’s world darlin.
The Honourable Schoolboy was the sequel to the film and it’s pretty flawed but dead sadly never been adapted. Probably impossible. But one one of the first fictions to go beyond ‘war is hell’ in respect to Indo China. The critique of empire is unflinching.
27 December 2023 at 10:11 #75157sorry for inflicting The Five Docs on you. Suppose I’ll have to look it again myself.
It was not a glorious WHO era… the next story ‘Warriors from the Deep’ was supposedly the one that killed classic WHO. Makes you wonder how (a) barnstormer like Androzani could still be made.
I still maintain that time lords and ladies tend to get around.
27 December 2023 at 09:34 #75156Tinker Tailor… a lot of people got very angry about the film: Haydon wasn’t dispatched in the right way. Guillams’s girlfriend was the wrong type of flute player… I thought it was fine. The tv adaptation is probably superior though equally claustrophobic and dry.
Le Carre’s Britain is broke, scruffy, compromised and no one can cook anymore. Kind of realistic and hopelessly idealistic. No wonder Smiley got fat and submerged himself in German poetry.
26 December 2023 at 22:44 #75147Robert Holmes… I meant ‘animal exploitation’ of course! How I hate spell check. I only looked up the other Lulubelles because I couldn’t believe it was down to Floyd + Geesin!
River could be prior to ‘Mel’ in ‘Let’s kill Hitler’… if the Silence and Long Joan Evil Cow had vortex manipulators. Cos it looks like that tech had got everywhere.
Susan’s last appearance was when she went back to her own time stream with gramps after The Five Doctors… but do we know where? Or if she thereafter got access to time travel tech? She was probably early in her regeneration cycle.
No. It’s never the Rani. I hope and pray it’s not The Loon… sorry Skeletor… er The Master. The Monk? Or rather Anchoress? The War Baroness? The Corsair?? We got to meet the Corsair sometime. Or another iteration of Tecteun/Awsok?
Flood. Flow. Flux… urghh. Gonna have to watch it ain’t I? Nooo…
Ashildr… yeah I’m on my own on this one but…
1. I think a civilisation with Time Tech would be over human/mire hybrid genetic material like flies, once they knew it was there
2. Why three? Three is a very curious number. In the Doctor’s terms three is neither an accident nor a coincidence.
3. Ashildr edited her own memory. She literally tore pages out.
’Why?’
’Dunno. I tore the pages out.’
26 December 2023 at 20:02 #75143WHO has left the flimsy realm of soft sci-fi and entered a whole new gooey and sticky universe. Maybe it’s just a Christmas Bauble Universe (see what I did there?) like a flagship tv show with a seasonal special stuck to it.
It’s not like that.
Observation: Lulubelle was the name of a blackface musical in the 1920’s and a related 1940s film (expurgated and whitened up). Also part of Country and western duo. Is that significant? Lulubelle III was name of the cow on the cover of Pink Floyd’s ‘Atom Heart Mother.’ RTD taking up racial politics or Robert Holmes style animal exploration protest. Seriously could be either. But not necessarily.
So, are we looking at an exploration of the Doctor’s origin prior to Tecteun and The Division, do you think? Have we heard Chibnall response to his ‘friend’ Rusty’s generous support yet?
I draw your attention to all these foundlings and Ashildr’s three cradles…
If you remember the Goblin King was not the first antagonist to end up impaled on a spire. The goblin ship was a bit Roger Dean I thought…
Loved the ‘Musical’ element. Was Bob Dylan a singer or a poet? A song a dance man, he claimed.
Mrs Flood… odds are on River I suppose. Surely that’s a bit prosaic and obvs for RTD? Susan Foreman… see I always thought she was the woman in The End of Time.
Surely not the Rani…
I thought it was very powerful… Chibnall’s derisory exposition given some meaning.
26 December 2023 at 10:30 #75138I mean ‘Before the Flood’!
26 December 2023 at 10:27 #75137there were no Tennant era Ice Warrior stories… as I’m sure you know. 1 for Smith/Coleman and 1 for Capaldi/Mackie. ‘After the flood’ was a Toby Whithouse story from the previous Capaldi season…
24 December 2023 at 19:23 #75111I have previously expressed my admiration for this Christmas special in these hallowed pages. Not all of the specials are worth watching EVERY year but this one and The Husbands of River Song are nailed on.
Some people don’t like the body count in VotD but you can’t crash Titanic/Poseidon Adventure and Aliens, with an extra nod to the best of Classic Tom Baker Who, and not have a few tagged toes.
Bring on The Goblins tomorrow!
Merry Christmas!
21 December 2023 at 10:37 #75091Chibnall’s historicals were generally the most positively received episodes from series 11 & 12, maybe because Chibnall didn’t write them (tho ‘Rosa’ was part written by him). ‘Tesla’: quite daft historical high-fiving. ‘Demons’ seemed to be a reworking of Testimony from ‘Twice Upon a Time’ (well, this happens on lots of stories). ‘Villa’ had great dialogue and George Byron with his tongue out, thereby contravening the Chibnall Boredom Protocol.
’Rosa’ seemed to be a worthy attempt with just a hint of being a bit worthy, though if the message was ‘racism is self conscious and always with us’ then you have to applaud it. But there you are: the episode is very difficult to critique and not because it’s perfect.
During lock down we had a ‘zoom’ family quiz and one question was about Rosa Parks: did her protest happen because she was: a communist; contravening the bus company’s regulations; had some history with that particular bus driver; or furious about the murder of Emmett Till?
The writer touched on 3 in the beginning but the answer seems to be unequivocally 4. If the writer had written this directly rather than alluding to it with Ryan’s scene, the episode would have been stronger. Bradley’s acting diffused an awkward scene. Is he an agent provocateur? A white guy doing the right thing for Rosa?
Perhaps the problem with historicals is there are too many smart Alecs.
19 December 2023 at 14:35 #75069take care Declan. You would think Christmas should be a time for peace, relaxation and healing. But it often doesn’t turn out like that.
🎅🏻🎄🥂🍩💤
18 December 2023 at 15:16 #75059I’m posting this here because there really does seem to be a word count issue on The Chibnall blog. Or maybe I need to be more succinct.
You are right. We shouldn’t make excuses for Chibnall finding it too difficult. There are lots of potential stories out there; but can they be used? Well that question pretty much defines the best of Who. Takes us somewhere good.
‘a story during the Suffragette era’; of course, history stories since The Highlanders (if you don’t count Black Orchid and I don’t) are really historical alien stories. Chibnall managed to get two historicals in both of his first two series. Personally, I can’t see why a pure historical couldn’t be done again. Yes, it’s either ‘you can’t change history’ vs ‘would you believe it, we changed history by mistake, but it worked out fine’ vs ‘watch out! History is happening and we’re in the way’ vs ‘we changed history a bit, but no-one noticed, and we learned a valuable lesson/felt good/bad about it.’ Or any combination of the above. Quite a wide field really. Lots of fams with problems in the past.
Well, very few of the pure sci-fi stories are really original, are they? We could always do with more history.
The suffragettes are particularly interesting because if you look at the Pankhursts it become a class story (ooh no we don’t want Cook voting!) and women got the vote because they followed the money and enabled patriarchal/imperialist total war. I reckon that could be a Moffat two-parter.
Time Lord society works when everyone can change gender; does it? Make any difference that is? Who we got: The Doctor’s foster mum? The Rani: geezerbird with nail polish; or Tecteun, if they’re not one and the same. The Soothsayer: two things you must know about the wise woman my lord, neither of which explains why she draws on her face with sharpies. I think you would basically be rewriting The Time Lords. Better than turning them into Cybermen.
Now hold on. CyberWOMEN?? Let us remember Seven of Nine had no trouble reading Ensign Kim’s mind.
The Doctor in a situation where traditionally masculine traits would have been a disadvantage: Surely this was the case since 10 blubbed at The End of Time?
Use the Master to contrast the Doctor’s experience; are they that dissimilar? There’s been too much Master. He’s just a loon.
Set a story in a female-led society: I can only think of The Minoans and they fell pray to rapists incorporated aka The Myceneans. Or the Kindans… I always wanted a full-on Mara story… one where the snake has been enthroned for so long that black is white, the rivers boil and cats live with dogs.
Otherwise, trad sci-fi hasn’t got a great record: all dumb role reversals and ‘there’s no one left; we hate each other too much to get jiggy.’ Though I’m sure Ursula Le Guin must have cooked up something good; problem is a nurturing stable female society doesn’t seem to be at much risk unless it’s from… nasty males from outside? Ah.
So, I’m afraid we might be looking at male dominated societies embellished by notable woman. Pericles/Aspasia: democracy is under threat from a bunch of military supremicists whose women are somewhat bizarrely more free than ours. Ah. Hypatia: a universally admired genius brutally slaughtered by a bunch of religious extremists. Mathilda and the Chaos: full on Lion in Winter; ‘Mum. I’ve decided to marry an older woman… who carries a knife’, ‘does a screwdriver count?’ Some of these ideas seem more relevant today than they would have five years ago.
Have a single, male, companion and explore how that relationship is similar to – and different – from the traditional set-up; 13 + closeted man perhaps? Or roaming the universe with Captain Jack, 13 patiently telling him she can’t stand him because he’s immortal (though apparently she is too… a bit hypocritical). And he really must stop treating sentient trees or super intelligent shades of the colour blue like pieces of meat.
You could even revisit additional sexes as per Azimov’s last truly great novel, ‘The Gods Themselves,’ or brain transplants as in Heinlein’s ‘I Will Fear no Evil’ (NOT like Spock’s Brain or Turnabout Intruder or New Earth).
Was it all too much for Chris?
Or he was told exactly what he could and couldn’t do? Let’s face it, some of the outlines above would have the three tabloids of the apocalypse frothing more than ‘Fury from The Deep.’
I do wonder about this last point. Was Chibnall the only one who would accept the brief? He was a competent enough writer before, but those three series seem to have been knocked off like he was waiting for the cheque.
17 December 2023 at 00:51 #75045Yes I mean of course 7 & Ace. Ace was the saving of 7; one reason I’m not that happy about Mel working for UNIT. Tell the truth I didn’t really watch much 7 at the time but I have caught up with series 25 & 26. 7 is manipulative and my impression was he doesn’t spare Ace.
Bradley was as badly served by Chibnall’s scripts as Whitaker, but the real problem is you can rarely get find enough dialogue for more than three protagonists in the Tardis. I suppose you love the Doctor you grew up with and maybe Chibnall really wanted to write his own Nyssa, Tegan, Adric, Turlough snooze fest. He tried it before in Hungry Earth/Cold Blood and we ended up with an unnecessary two parter.
But apart from the very occasional gem (and I DON’T mean Earthshock) series 19-21 were mainly notable for unintentional hilarity: Nyssa’s striptease in Terminus or Turlough, resplendent in very short shorts delivering ‘Best news I’ve heard all day’ in a manner that might have inspired Julian Clary. And the Myrka!
The bad taste and violence were then ramped up for Colin Baker. I loved it at the time; many stories were quite terrible but at least Peter Davidson wasn’t being a drip and I could put up with Peri’s accent. I suspect RTD always had a soft spot for that era; it’s like he’s still trying to bait Michael Grade.
Chibnall’s lack of humour was startling. Tim Shaw! Er. That’s it? You need a laugh track mate. It’s as if he never thinks someone might laugh at his work for the wrong reason, and so can’t nail down the right reason either.
Having said that I gave up after the Timeless Children.
NuWho companions… Karen Gillan had 2 modes (patter and moody) at last at that stage. Arthur Darvil deserves a mention. I have no issues with any Nu Who companions. If there’s a problem it’s people say ‘she ain’t Rose,’ (whoever it is and yes it’s always a she)… which is the point I was making.
I did like Pearl Mackie. That was a cracking season, with the exception of ‘Thin Ice’. But she made it.
16 December 2023 at 19:46 #75038Yes. Chibnall will be largely defined by the problems with 13. Although you won’t get anyone involved with show to admit this; no-one wants to lose the sale.
But Jodie Whitaker was unfairly served by her scripts. That’s down to Chibnall. And there were a lot of other problems.
Having said that, being DW showrunner is tough; a ‘Lady Doctor’ was going to be a particular problem and the reason for that is the 10/Rose furore. Classic didn’t have any kissy shenanigans did it?
Well… let us not forget that 4 and Romana 2 were actually an item in the real world, until they weren’t anymore, and it did look as if JNT was teasing Peter Davidson’s liking for the Nyssa character, but JNT wanted to sell Tegan to Australia and let’s face it, they couldn’t flush her away.
After that the entire cosmos could lust after Peri and her horrible costumes, courtesy of JNT’s humble opinion of what a straight dad might go for.
6’s relationship with Ace was a bit disturbing.
The thing is they all backtracked, finding reasons why an alien wouldn’t go for easy Earth girls…
Martha – unrequited
Donna – geezerbird
Amy – teased. She was keen but actually turned to be his mother in law. Pfft.
River – forget what came before… even more disturbing. Eyepatch lady could open a grooming class in a northern town.
Clara – again, teased but as it turned out improbably abstract, then platonic, and then I’m not sure. My own personal theory is she became the woman who moved in with 12’s mum. Embarrassin’.
Bill – gay. Safe. Though there was that ‘am I done?’ ‘Do you want to be?’ exchange. What was that about? Old man misjudgment? Forgot who he was, did 12?
Moff pushed it as far as he could really; what the hell was Chibnall to do with 13? Basically, she wasn’t a ‘Lady Doctor’ but a Trans Doctor. Inform the Daily Mail! And I reckon the corp was already looking for a streaming deal. Keep it clean. Make her a bit daft. Crowd the Tardis.
The obvious alternative was to make 13 asexual. ‘But you’re a woman.’ ‘Actually I’m an alien.’ Moff might have done it. I can see why the great or good might not like it. Or ignore the question: dump granddad, god he was annoying; they never did a thing with Ryan anyway; what could be safer than a reserved Community Support Officer taught by the Doc to be anything she wants to be? If she needed that. Cos it sounds a bit Craig from strictly.
It was tricky. Chris Chibnall was not the man.
15 December 2023 at 10:32 #75026Androgum chef prepared succulent half dressed nubile human companion Thermidor
Eric Seward’s cheesy Dalek surprise ala ‘Soylent Green’
Oi! You’re Scottish! Fry me some cheese!
Cardiff Bay Monterey Jack Welsh Rarebit
Cheese and Purple Celery
Carrot Juice
13 December 2023 at 10:39 #74995The Flux… still not watched that series. Definitely on my bucket list… probably somewhere toward the bottom.
The Timeless Children: observations…
I suspect Chis Chibnall was surfing tv tropes one day and discovered ‘I am become Woobie Destroyer of Worlds’ and thought ‘that looks like fun!’ What with the Logopolis farrago and The Reality Bomb, never mind the business with Trenzalore episode and Amy Pond’s disappearing Pandorica universe, it’s a wonder there’s anything left out there.
‘Big’ stories. Meh.
Also ‘flux’ sounds distinctive in a South Yorkshire accent. You need flux to solder yer plumbing. Flux was the medieval term for dysentery.
Oh well. Canon now. BUT… one reason exposition doesn’t work is that the audience can say ‘oh yeah. Sez who?’
The Master is a liar. The Master is a loon. The Master may have been led up the garden path.
And where did this Timeless Child come from anyway before he/she/it/they got sliced, diced and spliced?
13 December 2023 at 09:52 #74994King of hearts and 8 of clubs are much in evidence. Comparing the other cards with the cards on the image at the start of this thread, they seem to be random cards: various combinations of suits and numbers.
12 December 2023 at 19:22 #74989@juniperfish wow! Not expecting that level of analysis. Really thought it just signified McGann. If hearts/cups signifies a change, might it be a return to four’s more subversive methods?
@whohar … is it that we’re enthused by these new stories, to pick at these details, or is this another example of Chibnall’s inability to spin a yarn?
Also interested to see who RTD brings in as writers. Five episodes of series 14 yet to be announced says Wikipedia. Chibnall seemed to break with all the old writing crew from series 11. I was reminded of Robert Holmes extended break under Jonathan Nathan Turner.
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11 December 2023 at 09:54 #74963Keys of Marinus was the fifth ever serial. Got to watch it… trying to… it’s a struggle. The Chase was in the 2nd series
11 December 2023 at 09:43 #74961Another observation: the Doctor and the Toymaker cut cards. The Toymaker cuts The King… make of that what you will
The Doctor cuts 8… Paul McGann?? Human on his mother’s side? Or it could it have been any card lower than The King. 14 didn’t cut 10 for instance.
So, is the King, Rassilon? Or just a high card?
Ooh Rusty, the Toyshop is a rich theme.
I’ve said it before but I could without Guardians of either shade. 2nd law of thermodynamics says the less reflective one wins. You might as well explode The Reality Bomb.
The BIG stories are the meh ones.
10 December 2023 at 22:26 #74942Try and find Shirley in that final shot of the helipad. And whose idea exactly was it to put machine guns in a wheelchair?
10 December 2023 at 22:23 #74941And ooh sir! Sir! Thought of something else, sir… that Max Capricorn guy in Voyage of the Damned… he had gleaming gold tooth too!
just a few barrels left to scrape. Nearly there.
10 December 2023 at 22:00 #74939I have STILL not seen Time and The Rani. Truth be told I have avoided it and not just because I didn’t like ‘Mark of’ much either. As I remember, the best thing was the disdain the character showed for The Master. But I’m not very excited by her potential return; as Timelords can change gender, I’d rather welcome back The Monk or The War Chief (without the shouty tho.)
The bioengineering aspect of Rani’s backstory is the most intriguing detail… as we’re stuck with some kind of narrative related to the Timeless Children, could the infamous Tecteun have become The Rani?
But I return to Stooky Sue and her ‘wee babbies’; I’ve read about Logic Baird’s other puppet, ‘James’, but Sue and the 3 babes would seem to be RTD’s own invention. So… surely they must mean something? Surely ‘Bill’ isn’t William Hartnell (actor) and ‘Sue’, Susan Foreman (character). I wonder if RTD didn’t have (and still has) his own Cartmel masterplan, developed in turn by Moff… and even maybe (rather less successfully) by Chib.
I don’t want Simm to reprise the Master. To tell you the truth ALL the Masters are quite overated. I don’t like good vs evil played like that; you might as well have black and white Guardians. It’s just tiresome. However the second and third iterations of Simm’s Master were things of wonder: could have done without the Prisoner Cell Block H resurrection scene (even RTD can misread the campometer sometimes) but; ‘you’re going to BE ME!!’; ‘I want EVERYTHING! I’m SO hungry!’ Rescuing the ridiculous Kalid transformation from Time Flight in World Enough and Time…
Otherwise… not really sure what Mel was doing there… I wondered when she was going to switch on her Megabyte Modem, unless it was The Vinx was looking after that singular piece of extraordinarily advanced equipment? And, by the way, The Vinx… what? WHAT? Why? I suppose we’ll find out…
But Mel… like The Rani stories, she’s not remembered fondly in this neck of the Whoniverse. Now, rescuing Peri from the clutches of Yrcanos would have been an interesting story. Maybe Nicola Bryant wouldn’t do the cod yank accent anymore… they might have had to get a super intelligent slug to wipe her mind!
10 December 2023 at 00:26 #74915Ok! Lots going on there. So much so it was almost more early Moff than classic, overblown, season ending Rusty…
Red fingernails? I really dunno if the Rani was noted for the red finger nails. I think I might find it demeaning to find out… I mean we are talking about Pip and Jane Baker here.
We had a blurry shot of Kate and Mel leaving the helipad with a soldier, but what happened to Shirley Bingham? Has she got a super overdrive for her wheels, or was she smooching all the while behind the big gun with the singular name, the one that should have finished off 10/14?
Lots of characters… why are they there? Why is Shirley there?
More importantly, can I draw your attention to Stookie Sue and her THREE orphaned wee babbies? Three is such a powerful number. Who could ever question the number 3? Remember Rassilon, Omega, The Other? Most Whovians have forgotten the poor girl made immortal through no fault of her own. And the three cradles over which she wept as the Black Death raged…
We all saw the fun The Toymaker had with the puppets of the Doctor’s friends…
9 December 2023 at 10:52 #74868VotD must be a top 3 Christmas special. Titanic, Poseidon, Aliens, Robots of Death, ‘Keel him!’…
Love it
I assume the Host represent parallel cyber evolution. They are really extraordinarily similar to the SVs, Vs & D’s that Taren Capel liked to inject with gigantic glowing red syringes. Or the Titanic was a time ship…
Oh for a return to Androzani! Or a prequel. I have read somewhere that it was supposed to be from the same era as the RoD civilisation. Meet the young brilliant Sharaz Jek and creepy yuppy Morgus. Maybe program police robot D84 so it can survive a deactivator blast.
Anyway, glad to know someone else enjoys a Christmas binge. Bring on The Snowmen, Last Christmas, The Husband of River Song and even Dr Mysterio
8 December 2023 at 23:30 #74865I have finally just watched WBY…
Why were people going on about Isaac Newton? Really? Why???
And all this stuff about the influence of Midnight… what about The Waters of Mars??
Loved it. Not sure about the Timeless Children thing, because that was about the stage in the Chibnall cycle when my brains started leaking from my ears.
But yes Timelords… species fluid ☑️ or wherefor River Song??
8 December 2023 at 17:09 #74852plagiarising yourself though?! I suggest this makes Geoff the David Bowie of the Middle Ages.
I love the bit in the HotKoB where Ambrosius favourite hangout is a holy place named after… himself?? (Cloister of Ambrius). Must have inspired Burroughs (and so Bowies’) cut-up lyric method.
8 December 2023 at 16:47 #74851remember… Mr Copper’s degree in Earthonomics came from Mrs Golightly’s Happy Travelling University and Dry Cleaners.
7 December 2023 at 17:41 #74841twas none other than The Black Adder that labelled Geoff one of the great liars of history (Henry vii being almost as bad). My use of the adjective ‘kind’ is very relative here. Barbieri thought it was mostly nonsense too.
Miles Russell in ‘Arthur and the Kings of Britain’ shows that Geoff copies and pastes biographical details from other ancient geezers into the Arthurian account. Yes he did, but we only know this because Geoff covered all these other ancient geezers too. He wasn’t trying to give Arthur the credit for things they did, just selling what was presumably by then (say 600 years later) a very sketchy story to his Norman lords and masters.
7 December 2023 at 09:25 #74836Celtic myth… that reminds me of Julian May’s Pliocene Epic (The Golden Torc etc)…
Otherwise, this is an interesting link, comparing the earliest iterations of Arthurian myth with Irish legend:
http://www.facesofarthur.org.uk/fabio/book6.3.htmbasically the Vortigern story in Nennius is shown to be pretty much identical to the legendary fall out of Conn marrying Becuma; not that one proceeds from the other, it’s just that as a bard, if you wanted to hold your Mead Hall’s attention, you had to honour certain forms – wicked foreign women, lusty, venal usurpers, perfect sacrificial boys and tiny totemic monsters. Not to do so would be like playing ELP at the Wigan Casino.
Barbieri’s work was never actually published as far as I’m aware and it’s 20 years old; Miles Russell has shown he’s far too kind to Geoffrey of Monmouth who really was a monumental liar
6 December 2023 at 16:42 #74832’JHK??’ I meant JFK but you knew that.
I suppose when Jack met Harold it was an international changing of the guard… in particular I’m referring to Jack’s infamous reveal of his favourite preventative migraine cure. Maybe he was trying to wind up Harold not realising the son of empire was already mentally scarred by Robert Boothby.
6 December 2023 at 01:07 #74825I think as far as Harold MacMillan was concerned JHK might as well have been.
I think Chibnall was under strict instruction to not go there. They’ve got their bloody female. Now just fill the Tardis with idiots so no-one asks awkward questions. We all love ‘Villa’ but it IS the story where Byron makes a pass at the Doctor… a bit sad really.
and now the eye-candy’s back!
5 December 2023 at 22:45 #74817Clearly, Isaac Newton needs to be played by an asexual, neurodivergent actor.
A Regency AU where the British rescue and then fete Toussaint L’ouverture would be worth watching. It would have to be a very alternative AU though.
A white MLK? Do I/you/anyone really want to go there? Bobby Kennedy doesn’t count I suppose. Otherwise, the BBC knew how to stage a show like that until 1978…
1 December 2023 at 14:42 #74723I hereafter declare the ‘London Town’ a rabbit hole. I’ll be putting out cones and yellow/black tape and email the council.
1 December 2023 at 11:42 #74720safe to say lots of Brit songs use the form ‘London Town’ sometimes to rhyme or scan no doubt, sometimes as a regional dig at parochial insular London. RTD might be making the latter point (well we certainly ain’t in Cardiff or Sheffield anymore, Toto!) otherwise the real question is why should he use the phrase? No one says ‘London Town’ from day to day.
I think it’s a bit like ‘Gotham City’… there’s a comic strip element creeping in. And I think it’s a little bit meta too. And it’s a form of lampshading… look at me, look at my clunky tongue in cheek language and improbable representation of Britain created to serve the story.
As the Dreamlord might say; ‘it’s a story…’
29 November 2023 at 21:21 #74706William Hartnell was remarkable… and it was a tricky brief, because he obviously revelled in the curmudgeonliness of the role, but he was also disappointed by most of the scripts I think… been trying to watch ‘The Keys of Marinus’… by Terry Nation no less, and it’s tough.
My first doctor was Patrick Troughton. I don’t remember much… just to be very very scared. Fury from the Deep was the stuff of nightmares, apparently. Ask the Australian censor. Loved it tho!
John Pertwee was too gimmicky. Good actor, some good scripts but it didn’t always come together. Tom Baker is The Doctor… but his interpretation changed: the witty playful Doctor of the wonderful Leela run is I think what people remember. He was bitter and bored by the end.
Davison was a great actor saddled with insipid scripts, whereas the other Baker is unfairly mocked; his scripts were outrageous and sometimes downright terrible and he hammed it all up wonderfully: more than a bit of Tennant there. Lots of people like McCoy. There were some good stories there… people here have been talking about Curse of Fenric, and it was good.
Nu Who…? It’s a shame they couldn’t keep Ecclestone on board. His doctor was better than his MacBeth anyway. I thought Peter Capaldi had the most convincing journey.
Classic Who… I haven’t seen anything yet to make me doubt Troughton.
Enjoy!
29 November 2023 at 13:48 #74703London Town… to tell the truth I didn’t actually notice that one. There were worse anachronisms. Maybe someone wanted ‘London, England,’ in Moff style letters and what we got was an acceptable compromise.
I ain’t really bothered. Mind you, if it had been Chibnall, I would be frothing at the mouth! I’m afraid this is the way it will be… you takes the money and you break out the star-spangled paint.
But there were more examples; I’m sure RTD must be making a meta nod to the True Brits. Sorry guys. Can’t be parochial anymore. Just stoopid.
28 November 2023 at 18:38 #74688you’re thinking of Colin Morgan. He was also Merlin… in Merlin!
Dark with cheekbones like Lee van Cleef… so not dissimilar to Benedict
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