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I think this is probably the best place to discuss the rumour that the Tardis set has been or is in the process of being dismantled  this is only rumour at the moment as far as I’m aware. If the Tardis set has been dismantled it may not indicate the supposed hiatus that has been put forward by many commentators but may actually indicate Ncuti has indeed left the show as has also been rumored. My reasoning that this is a possibility is that generally the Tardis set has been replaced with each regeneration. To be honest I’m hoping both these rumours are false and incorrect.

 

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Did any of you catch the BBC 3 Doctor Who Unleashed, RTD appeared to admit that he is thinking multiple seasons in advance which gives me hope regarding there being life for Dr Who beyond the current season.

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In the main I enjoyed the episode.  I had a brief moment I had the thought oh no not another Clara (don’t get me wrong I liked Clara as a character) but RTD recovered it by stressing that Belinda was the genetic ancestor not the actual character  Veranda played, ok the Doctor once again has the feeling that they were fated/linked in some fashion and were bound to meet which had unfortunate echos of   A(I)lans coceirive  behaviour towards Belinda. There is obviously  some force preventing the Doctor & Belinda from returning to the Earth on the specific date though could that not be the Tardis itself it’s not as if it’s not a sentient entity with an innate knowledge all space and time 😉

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Well enjoyed the episode but wonder where it’s ultimately going to lead us the arms company seems to be rearing its head and makes me wonder if they are going to be the big bad of the next series. And I’m assuming the case code was a time paradox that may have its resolution in the future

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Hmm not sure this is the right place for this but here goes. I was re watching some of my favourite who episodes and was rewatching  DOTD special  and it got to the part with what I have generally called the CuratorDoc and realised it could have been a foretelling of Bigeneration could CuratorDoc have been a post TBaker/DavidsonDoc Bigeneration, hell even the regeneration from Tom Baker to Davidson sort of had a Bigeneration element which involved Davidson being there as the Watcher…. What do you all think.

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@ps1l0v3y0u I agree bringing Tenents 10 back as 14 was I think a situation extingency Jodie had left the show and I believe Ncuti was not available for the filming of the most of the 60th specials. Given that a showrunner handover was going to occur  they could possibly have tried to persuade Jodie to have hung on for the specials and then they could have bought back tenant as 10 in a multi doc  capacity much like the 50th anaversary episode.However that would have changed the whole dynamic of the regeneration to Ncuti IMO.as to the fututive Docs  using a Police Box Tardis we know from the Timeless Child narrative the Division hadn’t been beyond manipulating the Doctors memories, so perhaps HartnellDoc  recollection of how the Tardis became stuck in its Police Box persona is a false memory and is why a Fugitive Docs use of the police box disguise happened. Just going back to using Tenant as 14 it was hinted that timelords will reuse a regeneration look back in the 50th anniversary with Tom Bakers appearance as the CuratorDoc and his comment that occasionally a favourite face will reoccur.

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@dentarthurdent IMO Paul McGanns acting abilities were woefully underused in Doctor Who the movie as you say he made a much better Doctor in the Night of the Doctor minisode. He actually looked much better in his semi-steampunk outfit instead of the part Pertwee part TomBaker outfit they had him in. Also your probably right having the right frontrunner/script writer helps too.I really think that was the main issue with Whittaker tenure so much more could have been if she was given better scripts instead of the tripe Chibbers forced on her, it’s not like she wasn’t a known quantity as an excellent actress before landing the role.

 

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@blenkinsopthebrave just reread your previous post about selling it to the yanks your probably right unless Who was totally changed to being totally Americanised  with a big American stars and becomes something akin to say Babylon 5 ( which I was a massive  fan of btw) but it wouldn’t be Who. Who has always had a quintessential British feel and to be honest a show that works here doesn’t necessarily work over there. The shows that have transferred well if you can call it that have always been substantially changed when remade for an American audience like the Office , Ghosts etc.

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@anonymous I think it’s you who have missed the point it’s because @craig has kept topic  creation under his control it has in the main kept trolling by unsavory persons under control. He’s created topic threads  that cover most areas of conversation. He’s even created areas where non Who topics can be discussed. If we had a free for all for thread creation there would be hundreds if not thousands of threads and to be honest I personally wouldn’t want to have to trawl through that many threads.

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@ps1l0v3y0u

TBH I’ve never had a major problem with the Timeless Child element of ZChib’s tenure as showrunner ,as I am a tv watching of child of the mid 70s,I just felt his treatment and use of JodieW as the Doctor was very poor. I always felt he turned her tenure into a bit of the soap of the week and the Flux season well that was as confusing as muddy water.

Given as I was avid adult fan during the so called  Cartmel plan era I had always felt that the show was headed towards a big reveal about the Doctors past at the time before it was cruelly cancelled. I felt that McoyDoc was returning us to a more Hartnell-esk mysterious Doctor, especially in stories such as Silver Nemesis , so as I said I never had a problem as to the timeless child element only in Zchib’s execution in its reveal. I know that RTD is reported that he wasn’t a big fan of the original “Cartmel Plan” and like many others was surprised when he announced that he wasn’t going to ignore or at least modify the events of the timeless child events, (though I can understand his reasoning because to ignore it was to ignore JW’s tenure as the Doctor and some of the ground breaking that her being the Doctor bought). I think we were all hoping that the RTD2 first season would be on a par with his original first season but in some respects that may have been too much to hope for.

Right think I’m beginning to ramble again as it’s been the busiest day I’ve had since I had my heart attack 6 weeks ago been out for most of the day with friends so I’ll leave it there.

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@ps1l0v3y0u

Oh I likely likely your Tecteun/Ranni theory they both have that total scientific ethical/amoral disregard to life. As to my own bonkerising it is only my trying to get my head around who Mrs Flood may be if she’s a previous character of course she may be a totally new character but another comes to mind…. A chameleon Arc’d Rassilon since we’re on the asexual Gallifrey meme.

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Now don’t go shouting me down but I’m suddenly getting the bizarre  crazy bonkerising thought that Mrs flood is not a character we’ve met in the NuWho era but definitely Pre Gap  and no I’m not going to bang on for the old standard.  ‘ it’s the Rani’ but there is another pre gap “female” timelord we haven’t considered and in the televised form we last saw her in E-Space… is it possible she’s a Chamelon arc’d  twisted version of Romana. We know in theory at least, a Timelord can be nominally good but a regeneration can distill the worst characteristics which we have seen in the Doctors case has produced the Valeyard. So why not an evil Romana. Though thinking of the Valeyard and given in the post Zchib era of the timeless child and Bigeneration theres now no reason for him to have been a future life of the Doctor but one of the many past regenerations which has whilst typing this has led me to a second Bonkerising possibility that she is a female Valeyard. The only fly in the ointment so to speak for either of these candidates is the fact that they didn’t  recognise the Tardis from the outset unless Flood was either Chameleon Arc’d and like the master in his YANA personality didn’t remember the Doctors Police Box Tardis but they  had retained memory of Tardises in general. Yes that would have been a rather overly complicated but could fit the facts

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Oh my what an influx of posts o/n @juniperfish I too wondered what this means for Gallifrey though so far the only ones we know were resurrected we the ones dusted by Sutekh’s dust so presumably those that were dead prior stay dead. Right now to look back at the posts I missed

 

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@cathannabell oh please please don’t let Disney have had a hand in that though now you have pointed  it out the suspicion does come to mind I mean even the Cornel  was returned to life though as Sutekhs “first” victim it did make sense

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@thane16 indeed her comment’s appear contradictory at times on one hand there’s menacing intent then on the other hand she’ll appear pleased with the doctors actions or success. It was this behavior that that made me wonder earlier if she was a female incarnation of the master/Missy could it be that the female versions of the master are predisposed to liking the doctor and the male incarnations  are positively homicidal towards him, but as others have noted surely an incarnation of the master would recognise the Tardis so it makes this an unlikely probability.

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Well just rewatched the official BBC showing  of the episode and a couple of things I either missed or they just passed me by. Mrs Flood as well as definitely indicating she is definitely something big to come. I now have a sneaking suspicion that she may not be such a big bad because as well as she said “she had such plans ” when she started to turn to dust but when she  returns she calls the Doctor “you cleaver cleaver boy” now who else has called him that hmmmm but I wouldn’t bet on it being River just yet, my main thought is this series has been asking who is Rubys mother but what if there is a second subtext as the Doctor  is we now know is a foundling who is his Mother could Mrs Flood possibly be his real mother….. may be I’m  just clutching at straws.

The other big reveal was that Sutekhs  “infection” of the Tardis was not recent but he’s been there since the original PoM story. Okay  now I am  rambling.

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@ps1l0v3y0u

Mrs Flood said just before she and gran were turned to dust that she had so many plans this to me seems to indicate she will be a big bad at some point and her behavior is making me think she may be a new Master in the vien of Missy so more of a frenemy again than an outright enemy. Harriet got forcibly ejected from the Tardis by the Tardis shooting some kind of energy weapon when the Doctor regained control of the Tardis. I loved how they have bought in the Memory Tardis concept and have effectively tied in Tales of the Tardis series into the main Who universe.

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So it appears the rumour’s were true or were they and we have unfinished threads to be revealed and that’s all I’ll say for now cause I couldn’t wait and watched it on iPlayer like our fantastic leader😉

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@juniperfish  was a blank post intentional

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Sorry this is a bit delayed thought I has sent this yesterday but @dr-pepper-bean how do you construe the Doctor to be weak and feckless and as to be responsible for negligent homicide how, it was the  Coronels decision to investigate as member of UNIT . Okay  I thought Kate had given the Doctor a bit of an accusatory  glare when they discovered the Col. dead and I thought for a moment she was going to order the Doctor detained but she seemed to recover her composure afterwards. Unit investigates what I term extreme hazard situation so the fact that the Col. died is  let’s face it the term from startrek comes to mind a “red shirt” moment is this the Doctor’s fault probably not remember this was a trap set by Sutekh. Unit was well aware that something was up, the Doctor had previously (off scene) forbidden  Unit using time tech and given in the doctors mind I would assume because the tech was there and if memory serves was used on Gallifrey safely he wouldn’t expect there to be a possibility of them interacting with events. Ok the fact that time suddenly started to appear to be changing would have had me running for the hills but then I’m a big fat scardy cat.

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@ps1l0v3y0u apparently it came from a RTD interview in a Radio Times interview quoted in Screen Rant article about morris only being a temporary replacement. It may have been because the actress was filming a part in Renegade Nel though I can’t see any confirmation of the last bit.

 

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@ps1l0v3y0u Shirley anne is supposedly on detachment to UNITS Geneva branch and Morris is a stand-in. Presumably the actress was temporarily unavailable for the finale episodes, but it has been reported that she will be back for season 2.

However on another note I’m still a bit confused about Mrs Flood is she evil ie an agent of Sutek or another big bad to be resolved at a later date because she certainly has some kind of mean streak in the way she behaved with Gran and she seeemed to have some insight into what was about to occur. Also is the cloaked woman another Sutek agent or could it be he/she is another member of Suteks pantheon but not actually an ally of Him remember the Egyptian Pantheon of gods were not all  friendly to each other, so could this be a member of the pantheon at war with Sutek and Ruby is either weapon against Sutek  or a child of the gods needing the doctors protection.

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Right omg how right some of us were in our theorising…… do I dare spoilerise or do I leave revealing who the big bad is before anyone  who hasn’t watched the episode yet but some of my fellow forum got it bang on though the writing was all there.

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Ah so maybe that is what I was thinking of.

 

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@ps1l0v3y0u re your comment about the Absorbalof  being drawn in crayon ….well it was as it happens it was it came from a Blue Peter competition as I remember.
On another note I’ve noticed from my sky planner there is only one episode being screened on the BBC on Saturday but I was under the impression that episodes7+8 were being shown back to back.

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Oop that was supposed to be an edited version of the previous post😖

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@blenkinsopthebrave

“Could RTD2’s long-term plan be to bring the Timelords back? In fact, could he have decided to accept Chibnall’s eradication of the Timelords  in order to bring them back?”

Hmmm how do we know that Gnutidoc hasn’t already done it the impression I got from the beginning of the Xmas Special was that the Doctor had already been traveling alone before he met Ruby so how do we not know that he hadn’t already “saved” or somehow recreated the Timelords in some fashion given the revelations about his past. Also @ps1l0v3y0u isn’t part of the original Cartmel plan that the Doctor was always something more than an ordinary Timelord  either a reincarnation of an ancient Timelord or an actual ancient Timelord so the Doctor being actually a lost member of the “Celestial Gods” race like the Toymaker may not actually be beyond reasonable thinking, though TBH I doubt it is part of RTDs  actual plan.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

“Could RTD2’s long-term plan be to bring the Timelords back? In fact, could he have decided to accept Chibnall’s eradication of the Timelords  in order to bring them back?”

Hmmm how do we know that Gnutidoc hasn’t already done it the impression I got from the beginning of the Xmas Special was that the Doctor had already been traveling alone before he met Ruby so how do we not know that he hadn’t already “saved” or somehow recreated the Timelords in some fashion given the revelations about his past. Also @ps1l0v3y0u isn’t part of the original Cartmel plan that the Doctor was always something more than an ordinary Timelord  either a reincarnation of an ancient Timelord or an actual ancient Timelord so the Doctor being actually a lost member of the “Celestial Gods” race like the Toymaker may not actually be beyond reasonable thinking, though I doubt it is part of RTDs  actual plan.

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Well what can I add but pleaseeeee please please can we have more Rogue. Though please  don’t make him a new Captain Jack. On a more serious note if the internet in the other places has a meltdown I say so f- what, it already had been established the Doctor could swing both ways for f-sake. When you have a race that it is established can regenerate as either sex and Jodie doc had obvious feelings for Jas (love or hate the Chibnal era) why is it surprising  that  all the so called fans who seem to only be able to constantly criticise the show an opourtunity to go into a meltdown. I for one have never had a problem with this,  though my own being gay probably  has some part in this. However I would have been cheering the Who team on if they had made Rogues character female, it’s not as if the Doctor hasn’t had female romantic encounters before namely River.

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sorry I’m a bit late to the party so to speak😉. An interesting commentary on modern day social media  is probably the best way I can sum up this episode, with a shocking conclusion at the end which gave a whole nother meaning to the episode when looked in retrospect. I was almost left feeling forgiving to the Dot AI’s decision to eliminate its creators, a self entitled/centred  bigoted and  speciest (if that’s the right word) society. Is RTD making this a theme for the series of highlighting the ways a society can slip into what can be considered as morally ambiguous and even wrong thinking, First we had a society that had abandoned its minors who were essentially refugees who were left to save themselves. Then we had the semi religious/corporate culture that basically made war an industry. Think my thinking has become fried trying to see where this season is heading.

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Hmm, finally had a chance to watch the episode properly finally. A couple of thoughts occurred to me, firstly was the Doctor aware in some way that he or more correctly Ruby had been in some kind of time loop/paradox especially as in the first time when the Doctor stepped on the fairy ring he didn’t seem to know what it was but the second time he knew exactly what it was as soon as he saw it and stopped Ruby from disturbing the notes. Also re the witchy lady, I’m not so convinced  she/it was a future version of Ruby she had more a feel of a version of a weeping angel especially when she finally came close to Old Ruby. Also I see our friend Susan Twist was back again this must mean she has some significant meaning/role in the series’s arc plot. Right better go before the tother half tells me off for over doing things in my recovery 😉

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Thankyou all for your kind words, and yes I am much better now after the Cardiology team’s brilliant effort to insert 4 stents to help repair the damage that caused the heart attack.

On another note though I still have to watch the episode properly I think I saw enough to get some more initial thoughts together. Witchy Ruby initially had  an almost Reverse Weeping Angel vibe, and the scene towards the end where WR finally seems to approach Old Ruby definitely seemed to have a WEEping angel vibe. Though the other impression I also got was the episode had echos or vibe of the Amy Pond episode where she was split in two different timelines in the Two Streams episode. RTD does seem to be revisiting past themes in this series without actually bringing back old monsters. I did wonder to a degree at the end if the Doctor was aware of the time paradox that had just happened/closed and or if he had bought Ruby to this place and time to solve the “issue” of ap Gwilliam.
Right time 😉 to get back to sleep if I can. Again thankyou all for your very kind comments.

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Have watched the episode after a fashion( I had to watch it on iPlayer with fairly diabolical internet conditions as I’m currently sitting in hospital having had a massive  Heart Attack on Monday  which after extensive angiography procedures  I’m much better now). Unfortunately the hospitals free WiFi for patients has been down for the last few days so am reliant on very spotty  mobile internet on my phone so have not been able to watch the episode in it entirety all the way through as it kept skipping bits and freezing up but the bits I could watch appeared to be a very companion centric  and a  bit in the vien of the Donna Noble led episode Left Turn and other episodes  from Who past. The witchy/scary watcher I think had a flash back to T Bakers final story (Legopolis) with the mysterious watcher watching the doctor from a distance. I see our recurring guest Susan Twist was again in the episode surely this has to have  some major plot line meaning.. But until I’ve had a chance to watch episode in it’s entirety and uninterrupted I won’t make any more comments other than to say it looks a good episode

 

 

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Hi all liked this episode much more than the first 2. It had a much more classical who feel. I am beginning to wonder about Ruby and is it possible this might be Susan’s daughter that she has somehow sent to the doctor to look after, as she would be his great granddaughter but only part galifreyan and possibly another hybrid. Though what is it with RTD and Moffat having to have a big mystery surrounding the female companions it seems to be a constant theme over the years of NuWho.

 

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Well I have to say this was an episode of two halves for me. It started out fairly good ok must say Maestro’s performance was very OTT but given this is supposed to be one of the Celestial Toymakers Pantheon what do you expect especially after Neil Patrick’s  rendition of the character they needed to have someone who reflected this which Jinx did very well. My big problem was the way they finished the episode with a  60’s pastiche musical song and dance ending. It felt as if RTD was doing a combined homage to Austin Powers and a Disney musical. It also reminded me of the Buffy musical episode Got to Sing and Dance.

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Hmmm, wasn’t too bad an episode seen worse but at the moment I’m not sure Ncuti is  creating the Doctors gravitas. It actually felt more like a mid season filler fluff episode. I hope this isn’t  a result of the Disney  partnership. Will probably need a rewatch to firm up my opinions to be honest it’s just doesn’t feel a classic who episode.

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@whohar as a general rule if I was commenting on a new episode I would post spoiler free comments in the first 24 hrs to give all a chance to see the episode before making spoilery comments about an episode. As Craig said we are now in a new situation with the BBC dropping episodes on iPlayer prior to being aired on the terrestrial channel. This is probably as a result of the the Disney+ contract as we’ve never before had a double episode on the same day, I have observed in the past D+ have a habit of launching a new series with a double drop. Given that the series is only 8 episodes long I’m a bit disappointed as it now means we will only have 7 weeks of Who to look forward to. On a positive at least Who is back to a Saturday slot…….. at least untill there’s some sporting event to take priority and the Beeb shaft us whovians and move it.

 

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I’m not surprised about that. I think Cartmel was aiming at the doctor actually being some kind of contemporary of Rassilon in the Who books published just after BG Who was cancelled there was some hint that the Doctor may have been  somthing to do with a Triumvirate of ancient  Timelords of Rassilon, Omega and someone referred the Trickster. I think it was supposed to be inferred that the Doctor was supposed to have been the Trickster maybe a bit like a Valiyard-esk version at that time.

 

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@ps1l0v3y0u you’re are indeed right that the 12 regeneration rule was created as cannon in the Deadly Assassin but that particular bit of cannon was partially broken by the 5 Doctors special episode when it was hinted/stated that Timelords from the ancient times like Rassilon were potentially immortal obviously implying that sone Timelords could have endless regenerations. Now at that time there was no actual indication that the Doctor was anything other than a normal ‘modern’  Timelord with 12 regenerations, and I suppose the BBC at that time probably never dreamed that Who would ever reach a 13th Doctor ( oh how short sighted they were). @dentarthurdent During 7’s tenure and the advent of the Cartmel plan it was actually hinted that our dear Doctor was something other than a regular Timelord  perhaps even one of the ancients and it was with this in mind I  think Chibnall ran with the Timeless Child timeline. Also when it came time for the Who production team then had to get around the 12 regeneration rule in the Day of the Doctor they came up with the clunky fix of the Timelords sending him a new Regeneration cycle through a time rift. But with hindsight if the 12 regeneration rule was sacrosanct how could  the Timelords have done this remotely unless the potential for endless regenerations  was established so  in part Chibnal’s Timeless Child timeline then becomes more logical.

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@dentautherdent what you have to remember about Love and Monsters is that the monster played by Peter Kay was the result of a competition run by the BBC run in UK Schools. If I  remember right part  of the competition was to submit a plot outline along with a ‘picture’ of the monster and as I remember the winner was a 10 year old.😝🤣😂😛 so no wonder the the monster was a bit naff.

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@dentautherdent what you have to remember about Love and Monsters is that the monster played by Peter Kay was the result of a competition run by the BBC run in UK Schools. If I  remember right part  of the competition was to submit a plot outline along with a ‘picture’ of the monster and as I remember the winner was a 10 year old.😝🤣😂😛 so no wonder the the monster was a bit naff.

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@vickymallard  I wouldn’t base your opinion on a premier of a Doctor in a Xmas Special as the Xmas specials seem to have a hit and miss history. As @ps1/ov3yu has said RTD seemed to be channeling some of the Mof’s campish Xmas style, I would wait for at least a few episodes from the new series as it starts in I think it’s April or May before making any decision on Ncuti’s performance as the Doctor.

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Hmm now also watched the Doctor Who Unleashed episode for this episode, now I know RTD is a prime exponent of the Doctors first rule and really enjoys messing with us fans but he did admit that there is going to be a slow reveal background story to Mrs Flood. If this is indeed a case of RTD messing with us then he appears to have Anita Dobson thoroughly involved in his scheming. I did however fall into the one of the constant fan fav theories and wonder if Mrs Flood is actually going to be revealed as Susan appearing at last……just putting it out there the other thought that occurred was The Rani but surely not. Though personally I think I’ve  read or saw  a YouTube broadcast somewhere that RTD has said he is going to introduce or reintroduce us to a more mythical side, which he’s certainly done in this special. Though I would say in introducing “other science” shall we say he’s still trying to give it a  scientific structure. I’m wondering if the mystical elements will play out as a result of the events of Wild Blue Yonder, oh heck I think I need more sleep.

 

 

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Loved the episode and there were a couple of definite wtf  moments definitely need a second and perhaps a third  viewing.  All I want to say at the moment is who the heck is Anita Dobson really playing.

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@blenkinsopthebrave my understanding is that he was actually suffering from a combination of a form of arteriocerebro-vascular  dementia and heart failure quite possibly exacerbated by his heavy smoking and drinking though he didn’t actually die till 1975 I suspect he was having problems memorising his lines as early as 1966 when he was effectively pushed out of the role of the Doctor due to ongoing disagreements with the changing production team of who. Today we probably recognise his condition as early onset dementia which is often vascular in nature,

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@whohar this comment has been stimulated by one of your comments over on the blue yonder thread about series 15s potential big bad. But because my response is in part stimulated by some of the events in the Giggle in particular The Toymakers reference to an entity he ran away from,  I’m actually wondering if he was possibly referring to the Black Gaurdian. Now those of us who  are (ahem) old enough to have watched BG Who the first time round will remember that He is the celestial representation of Chaos and quite generally evil, also when the Doctor “rants  “ about the human races tendency to do the stupid and also mentions about the universe being more than just Order and Chaos.

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Right after a quiet rewatch( was watching  yesterday with my client) had what I thought was quite a disturbing though as I noticed that the Unit ladies all were wearing a similar if not the same coloured nail polish red as the hand that seemed to be about to pick up the Master Gold Tooth prison…… do we have a branch of the cult of Saxon within Unit…….. just saying.

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@phaseshift🤣😂

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To my knowledge no, but consider this the timelords seemed to have resurrected every psycho Timelord in the time wars so a regenerated or resurrected Rani is I suppose possible but my bet would be one of that strange cult of the Master’s  being the hand.😉😛

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Oh another thought are they going to run a second stream of Who,  one with David and one with Ncuti, though to be honest it would have made sense given we are being told RTD is keen for spin-offs that if the  TennantDoc was an earth bound Doctor perhaps working with UNIT like an early PertweeDoc.

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