BBC approved Doctor Who series 9 spoilers and trailers


This is a blog where we can discuss official BBC production-team approved spoilers. It exists so that those who wish to be utterly unspoilered can avoid them.

Just to be clear, this is only for official info leaked by the BBC that will have been approved by Steven Moffat. Any other spoilers from any other source should be posted in the Spoilers thread found here:

As @Lisa and @fatmaninabox posted yesterday, the BBC has announced that Missy will be back!

@Lisa wondered if that is a vortex manipulator that Missy has on her wrist in the video.





  1. @craig

    loved the Dan Martin blog. Didn’t love the comments -read maybe 10 of them: most hating the previous series, hating Clara, hating Corden (“will chuck up dinner if he reappears”) and “best of all”

    “loved Doctor Who till Smith showed up and haven’t bothered since”

    The reply to this was: “if you soldiered thru Colin Baker this year should be a doddle”

    I swear those types of comments must have induced heart attacks in real Who lovers, followed by: “delete delete delete” which is why you started this Forum. No haters allowed. Proper discussion required!

    Also, DM says Corden’s basement was the experiment for a new Tardis: I thought it was the attic? Anyhow, I didn’t see another Tardis in either trailer? @mudlark can you identify a pre-Tardis type Tardis in the 2nd trailer? 🙂 My eyes!! I can’t pick up this stuff!

  2. @Craig I think DM suggested we’ve not seen Unit or Osgood anywhere in the trailers -true, but I think there’s a caravan with the Dr and Clara out the front and there’s a UNIT soldier on our left?


    I’ve finally picked Odin -after numerous stop starts. I see Clara running towards a dusty building. Is this a ‘Police Station’ and thus a Tardis? Do you think?

  3. @Brewski

    I hate that when it happens!

    But yes, I actually did get it. It’s certainly even better the second time around -the perfectly good pun, that is – also the trailer. I’m still intrigued by the Tardissss’ -unless the edits are screwing with my mind, deleting bits at a time.

  4. I also think the Tardis spinning around in space might be not be Capdocs?
    The Clara holding the bazooka might be a Zygon ? Not sure why I think that.
    Does anyone think the strange hand with the claw fingers belongs the same guy
    with the horizontal lines on the face? They wear similar cloaks in both of the images.
    One other thing, I’d really like to see Missy ask the Dalek she confronts to say something nice. 🙂

  5. Just watched Trailer 2 in an idle moment and, oh dear!  At approx. 0.09 sec  a glimpse of the Doctor and Clara with, in the background, a Viking type wearing a helmet with horns   🙄

    Of course it could be a deliberate mistake, to indicate that these are not real, historical Vikings, but if not, I shall write a strongly worded letter to the BBC informing that they have made an unforgiveable error, Viking helmets never had horns, which would have been totally impractical, Doctor Who has been ruined for me in consequence and I will never watch it again.

    Sufficient ARSE, do you think  😈

  6. @Purofilion, While @mudlark might find another, I can only assume the pre-Tardis like Tardis is the glowing tube around 0.22-o.23, although it doesn’t look much like the one in The Lodger, which was not in the basement, yet nor in the attic, but rather on the upper floor of Craig’s bungalow, which was all an illusion (the upper floor, not the bungalow).

    @mudlark, I loved your ARSE (not sure that came out right), and I should add that I have the distinct feeling that the Viking is not being portrayed by an actual Viking. Outrageous!

  7. @Bluesqueakpip

    Or possibly a call-back to The Time Meddler.

    That thought crossed my mind.  In the case of The Time Meddler the setting was supposed to be genuinely historic, but nothing about the costumes or the props was particularly accurate – it is unlikely that the production team wouldn’t have had the time or the money to do any real research, and ‘everyone knows’ that Vikings wore horned helmets.  In this case, if the glimpses in the Trailer are to be relied on, they seem to have gone to quite a lot of trouble to get the look of the buildings and the costumes right, but still the horned helmets   😕

    I suspect that the misconception originated with finds of horned and elaborately decorated bronze helmets from Denmark, together with bronze figurines wearing similar horned caps, but these are all of Bronze Age date, about a thousand years too early, and are more likely to have been symbols of status than functional pieces of armour.  In any case they look nothing like the popular idea of Viking helmets.


    @purofilion  @blenkinsopthebrave     The glowing transparent cylinder, together with the structure round it does bear a very faint resemblance to the central structure of the 8th Doctor’s Tardis (in the film which we choose to erase from memory) but there is no console, and I haven’t spotted anything else that looks even faintly Tardis-like apart from the Tardis itself.   For what the observation is worth, the glowing cylinder thing is situated in a vaulted, medieval style room.

    Blenkinsop   As long as the ARSE is capitalised there can be no misunderstanding    🙂


  8. Rats!  no edit function.

    it is unlikely that the production team wouldn’t have had the time

    should read: it is unlikely that the production team would have had the time  ….

  9. OK, after having watched both trailers, and in light of comments by @bluesqueakpip and @mudlark, I offer the following:

    It now seems clear that in her two episodes, Maisie Williams is in two separate time periods, medieval–perhaps with a Viking setting–and, say late 18th century–on horseback. But in both periods, there is something not quite right (steampunk robots and a sort of cat-like alien in a carriage). Then there is the (perhaps) proto -Tardis sitting in a church-like structure. So who is Maise Williams? “What took you so long, old man?”

    What if Maisie Williams is…a regeneration of The Time Meddler? A renegade timelord known as the Meddling Monk to Hartnell’s Doctor, and a regenerated, female, and still renegade timelord to Capaldi’s Doctor?

    And therefore, someone who might possibly turn up again in a future story…?

  10. If a Time Lord can 1) regenerate into a different gender, and 2) choose the face/body he regenerates into, then I must wonder why the Doctor chose to be a scruffy white male 13 times.

  11. @Blenkinsopthebrave yes, thank you -you’re right, it wasn’t an attic but an upper floor which dematerialised after the perception filter vanished with the ship.

    I shall check out the seconds and do a quick “pause”. I think that M. Williams is looking odd -or rather odd, given the surrounding circumstances. I find her clothes to look rather Slavic, actually. Interesting bonkers theory, Mr Blenkinsop.

    @mudlark my historical knowledge of this period is murky, so are you saying that the ‘horned’ helmets are not actually Viking  but Bronze-age instead? The disadvantage of choosing modern history at university which led to decisions associated with a Master’s upon which was based the history of Russia, the States and sociological imperatives of Oz history -resulting in one miserable semester of medieval Europe with nil/nix/nay on anything to do with what QLD Univ called “pre-history.”

    @lisa I agree with you re Clara and Zygon Clara. That idea hit me too although I also thought “she looks like Missy would look” -younger, similar colour lipstick -obviously with some added poison to the lippy or some addition which causes “effulgent” hallucinations (adding some reference to Spike fans from Buffy but without specifically tagging pedant as he’s nowhere on these spoiler pages, I think). I also agree that the hooded fella with the horizontal facial lines is the same as “claw fingers” Lisa.

    Right: need to check 23:00 seconds in now. But, honestly, it’s so incredibly fast my eyes are wobbling and will soon be seen sprouting out of my hands.

  12. @Blenkinsopthebrave

    thank you for the 22 seconds hint. I stopped it and “boom” of course; it appears to be the timey whimey cylinder of a stripped back Tardis sans console. Goodness, that’s a whole second-and-a-half! How I missed that I do not know!

    And I’m intrigued why the Dr says “just the Dr and Clara Oswald in the Tardis: same old same old” Why does he feel the need to enunciate that? A clue to Clara, a signal to run? Someone else in the Tardis and the Dr is specifically communicating to them?

    @lisa why do they need glasses again? Was it to recognise Zygons or something else? I cannot for the life of me remember! Obviously glasses were used to detect Silurians and that makes me think that the Silurian “cousins” were the Sea Devils which I think @crieshavok or @indigomoose mentioned earlier? And they make a brief (absurdly brief) appearance in Trailer #2

  13. so at 32 seconds we have a creature (with 3 digits) under a blanky walking down a narrow corridor (I love me some corridors!). Is it related to the thing under the blanket in Listen, I wonder?  I don’t think so, but I’m keen to know how that’s resolved.

    The thing under the blanket was small -small enough that it was probably a child. But a child of what? Bahahabahaha!!

  14. @purofilion

    I just read your question many posts up regarding Orson/danny. I do indeed have theories. My head has been buzzing with them ever since Listen. Indeed Obsessed may not be an exaggeration.

    I have been pondering of late the connections between Missy and Clara. the nanny look for one. Missy gave Clara the Doctor’s number but just how much has she been meddling in Clara’s past, shaping her training her? Possibly another Madame Kovarian/River Song scenario. Moffat does tend to be a tad repetitive in his story ideas and themes so it would not surprise me.

    Moving on then to Danny/Orson. I am still struggling to work out how the toy soldier got from the former to the later but I have lots of theories as to how it gets from Gallifrey back to earth as I am certain that it does the full timey wimey circle. It has to be paradoxical. My latest theory involves Missy. She/he stole it from the Doctor when they were children. Well he/she would wouldn’t he? Missy gives the toy box to the orphanage for Danny, and pops the soldier in there. Maybe Missy took Danny from the future and left him at the orphanage as a trap for future Clara. Danny as a character did seem rather staged. He had no family, something that Seb refers to  in Dark Water. Danny came out of no-where. The car that kills him also comes out of no where. His death is quite random and almost certainly engineered by Missy.

    Danny is therefore Orson’s twin. As to the time traveling ancestor whom Orson is so vague about, well it could be any one of the Doctor’s former human companions which would explain how Orson got the toy soldier from the Doctor only he couldn’t have if Missy stole it. I have just tied myself up in a very very bit knot. I just can’t see how Orson could get the toy soldier from Danny, unless Missy stole it from his cold dead hands and passed it on.. It has to be Missy..




  15. @Bluesqueakpip  Yeah, that’s what they told me, too: comedy.  Maybe kind of like “The Merchant of Venice” is a comedy, what with “I’m gonna slice off half your chest to collect my pound of flesh”?  Funny old sense of fun going on there . . . And I’m definitely cheering your maddened opera singer on, by the way.

    Actually, now that I look more closely (says the cross-eyed one over here), I think there’s a third costume for Maisie W.  #1 is the highway-person costume.  #2 is the Viking (?) costume with the braided hair and sheepskin vest.  #3 is in the picture with the lion, in which Maisie has her hair up, but is wearing what looks like the just-on-the-shoulder of a shirt or blouse in reddish/iridescent cloth, not the robber’s coat *or* the Viking vest.  So — three different episodes, or a change of outfit in one of two?

    And that lion man looks as if he’s sitting inside the coach from the plaid pants hold up episode, and talking to Maisie about something she’s looking toward us (not him) to see.

  16. @Purofilion If you are referring to the Doctor’s sunglasses then
    the fact that we see them several times in both trailers apparently means the
    have a purpose? The sunglasses must reveal something to him.
    Are those the glasses you mean? Ready for a third trailer 😉 please!

  17. @purofilion  The worst thing about having your eyes sprouting in the middle of your palms is trying to brush your teeth without gouging your eyes out with the blunt end of the toothbrush handle.

    I think the whatnot under the blanket might actually be the lion man in a hooded robe — who is wearing a brownish hood when he spits fire, in profile, rather than the very swanky get-up he wears in the shot with Maisie Williams.

    @Bluesqueakpip  Okay, in Maisie #3, with lion man, her “shirt” might be the same as or similar to Missy’s jacket, of a similar hue, but without the shirt underneath it that Missy wears . . . though where that might take us, I do not know.

    Maybe the sunglasses reveal to the Doctor that there’s a Zygon Clara as well as a Zygon Osgood, and when CapDoc grins at “Clara” as he puts on the sunglasses, maybe he is about to unmask her as not Clara at all but Zygon Clara.

    I find the guys with the very large, dark, apparently vacant eye sockets a bit, um, disturbing . . .

  18. @ichabod

    Yes I’m with you on the disturbing eye socket man devil (just kidding: referencing the other religious debate coz everyone’s a devil doncha know?)

    also @lisa

    Yes, the grin with the sunnies: an unmasking, I thought this as well. There seemed more to it: with the statement “just me and Clara in the Tardis…” as an odd line. Yes, the doctor banters and chatters but mostly it all means something therefore I’d suggest he’s actually suggesting the: not-“Clara in the Tardis” -the zygon Clara, praps?

    @JanetteB thank you for that. Yes Danny does seem a staged being: she’s in school and suddenly there’s Danny: cute, easy to like, has no major issues (well, yes he does) but no family -except the army which is interesting as Missy was all for armies. But then, he’s dead right (no, that should read “he’s dead, right? the all important comma!) and I feel that possibly he was just a normal, but somewhat detached fella. I always want a surprise when there might not be one. Also, I believe SM has said more standalone episodes and less arcs, so who nose?

  19. @purofilion  @JanetteB  Seems to me that if you have a huge cliff-hanger ending for S9, you don’t actually need a Series-embracing arc — just roaring off after adventure upon adventure would certainly suit the idea that the Doctor does, in fact, have more than an inkling of Clara’s ending, so he just goes for it while he can — and then blam! this thing from the past catches up and confronts them.  All you’d need would be an ongoing whisper of this sneaking-up danger, with a foreground of discreet adventures that they handle as they come along.

    Not so long to go now . . . !

  20. @ichabod

    and yet many youboobers claimed there was no cliff-hanger ending to S9! it was 9, right?

    Now we’re up to 10?

    Boy, do I get confused. Time for bed: 7:10 pm. That’s early. G’night all.

  21. @purofilion

    are you saying that the ‘horned’ helmets are not actually Viking  but Bronze-age instead?

    Exactly so.  In the photos of Bronze Age examples I have seen, the horns are of cast bronze, curved like the horns of an aurochs and capped with a spherical knob.

    The ruddy great horns which are so often depicted on Viking helmets look impressive but would be totally impractical, if you think about it.  The helmets were supposed to protect the head, and a smooth oval or conical metal cap lined with leather (think Norman helmets) would not only act as a barrier, but help to deflect blows from a sword or battle axe.   On the other hand, swords and axes would catch on horns.  If the helmet were not secured by a very strong chin strap it would very likely be knocked off, rendering the wearer’s head defenceless; or, if it were so secured, the wearer’s head would probably be jerked sideways, giving him a nasty crick in the neck; or alternatively, the horn itself might  be detached, rendering the helmet unstable (large cow horns can be quite heavy).

    The helmets of Greek warriors and of Roman legionary officers were adorned with prominent crests on the crown, but they were armed with spears, javelins and short swords designed primarily for stabbing.  Viking swords and battle axes were designed for slashing and hacking.

    It is just possible the Bronze Age horned helmets were intended to be worn in battle, though I doubt it.  Bronze Age swords in Europe were short and an elongated leaf shape, a bit like the hobbit swords as depicted in the films of TLOTR.

    It is, on the other hand, perfectly acceptable for Odin to be depicted in a helmet adorned with ravens’ wings.  He is, after all, a god   🙂

  22. @janetteB   @todeledo   For once Hollywood is not to blame, although it has certainly played its part in propagating the myth.

    The idea originated in the nineteenth century, seemingly the product of a general Germanic and North European Romantic movement rather than a specific Scandinavian nationalism, and was probably founded in the somewhat hazy antiquarian notions of North European prehistory which were current at that time.  The costume designers for Wagner’s operas (him again) probably gave it a substantial boost and, since the Ring cycle draws on the Scandinavian Volsung saga as well as Germanic legend, may be responsible for suggesting the Scandinavian connection.

    Most nineteenth century Antiquarian scholars would have been aware of references by Greek and Roman writers to northern barbarians wearing helmets adorned with horns, antlers and feathers, but such helmets would almost certainly have been ceremonial.   There is an artefact found in Denmark which is contemporary with the Roman period and which may be relevant, although I forgot about it when describing the Bronze Age horned helmets in my post above.  This is the Gundestrup cauldron  which is made up of a series of beaten silver panels with relief decoration and was found in the 1890s in a bog, where it had probably been placed as a votive offering.   On one of the panels there is a figure wearing a helmet with recurved horns capped with spherical knobs, very similar to the Bronze Age helmets (which are too flimsy to have been of much practical use), and on another panel there is a procession of mounted figures wearing helmets with elaborate crests and, in one case, horns.  But these are in the context of what are clearly mythological and symbolic scenes of gods with their attendants and various animals.  Judging by the style and technique, the cauldron was probably made in central or even South East Europe.

    The nearest thing to the popular idea of a Viking horned helmet, and which may have influenced the nineteenth century Romantics,  is one dated to the second or third century BC, which was dredged from the Thames in the early 1860s. Again, it was probably for ceremonial use ands is the only known example of its type.  The horns in this case are cones of sheet bronze capped with a small knob, and the bronze helmet is highly decorated.  And like all the other examples I have mentioned, it dates from centuries before the Vikings.


  23. @Mudlark and @others

    From a purely practical point of view, Tom Hiddleston once pointed out that there is a reason Loki-in-the-movies is usually not wearing his helmet.

    It’s incredibly heavy to wear and gets quite painful after a bit. So yeah, in real life, horns were almost certainly ceremonial.

  24. Anyway, getting back to the trailer: I suppose we can say that there are three possible reasons for the horned helmet.

    1. It’s a mistake caused by everyone ‘knowing’ that Viking helmets have horns.
    2. It’s a deliberate error, in the same way that Churchill’s War Room was quite deliberately inaccurate. The history of the Whoniverse is parallel to ours, not identical.
    3. It’s a shout out to The Meddling Monk.
    4. It’s a deliberate anachronism; signalling that there’s a time traveller around.
  25. @mudlark

    Awesome history lesson. Now why aren’t there some Russian KGB things so I can get all, “I know this!”

    Because I knew nothing about these Viking helmets until the other day when the conversation started. Who says Forums can’t educate? This is wonderful and so interesting. Really, I’m very impressed and standing a little taller learning all this -correctly. As I said, our univ system didn’t even have a ‘pre-history unit’ -pre History is what it was still called back in ’84. There was one lady,  a Mrs Muller (MA) who taught a semester of Medieval History and that, my friends, was all we got.

  26. I’ve tried posting a site but for some reason it wont work. Its an article from Fansided
    with potential spoilers about Maisie and the last 2 episodes in season 9. The piece
    mentions a return to Galifrey and that Maisie’s character name is ‘Ashildr’ but it doesn’t
    tell much about who she is. The last 2 episodes find the Doctor and Clara in some sort of
    a tomb location which is supposed to represent Galifrey- maybe?
    I tried to post this piece but kept getting a message that I had already posted it which was
    incredibly strange and so if you would like to read it then you need to go google ‘Fansided
    Doctor Who’. Hope the info in this article is legit!

  27. @blenkinsopthebrave    😀     Where else would Moffat go for inspiration on a Viking theme but that perfect summation of Wagnerian opera in less than two and a half minutes.   Just so long as he does not kill the wabbit because, after all, he has to think of the children   😉

    @lisa  If your information is correct, the name Ashildr has a distinctly Norse ring to it, so would fit the Maisie character in a Viking context.

    @everyone    Going back to our speculation on the nature of the structure with the central translucent cylinder; I have had another look, and there is in fact what could be a free-standing console desk to the left of it.

    And to go even further back, to the discussion of the first trailer and the debate on how much the Doctor knows about Clara’s future, I noted something which might be relevant during a re-watch of Listen this afternoon (well, the weather has been wet and dismal all day, so I could not get out to do any gardening).  When Clara links telepathically to the Tardis, the Doctor tells her that the Tardis is extrapolating her entire time line, from birth to death.  Clara interrupts him hurriedly to say that she does not want to know, but the Doctor might not have been able to resist a peek   😕


  28. I’ve been thinking about the name Ashildr. Its supposed to mean battle god. Hildr in
    norse mythology was a Valkyrie and they were the female soldiers that collected dead
    warriors as fighters for Odin to fight in some final battle (or something pretty close
    to that). So the thing that I’ve been thinking is about Missy. Didn’t it seem like she
    was also collecting dead soldiers for some big battle? Isn’t that a lot of soldier
    collecting ?
    Back to focusing on less interesting matters at hand 😉

  29. Also I forgot to mention that Ashildr/Hildr had regeneration powers over the dead she
    sent back to Asgard. I think that’s how it worked. ( @Mudlark – did I mess it up or get
    this more or less? )

  30. @lisa    Ashildr  is certainly a genuine Old Norse name and could be translated loosely as Divine Battle Maiden, so yes, a very appropriate name for a Valkyrie.  As far as I know it does not appear in that form as the name of a Valkyrie in any surviving Old Norse literature (I just checked), but Hildr certainly does, as you say.

    The Valkyries were the handmaids of Odin and hovered over battle fields, deciding who should die and, of those who died, who should go to Valhalla to become members of Odin’s Einherjar – the war band who would join him in the final battle at Ragnarok.   Those not selected went to another afterlife presided over by the goddess Freyja.  So they had powers of life and death over warriors, and over their fate in the afterlife, but I’m not sure that, strictly speaking, this could be equated with powers of regeneration.

    Good thinking in noting the strong parallels with Missy and her collecting of the dead to make cybermen, although the Valkyries were evidently a good deal more choosy    🙂

    I have just come across another depiction of a figure with a horned helmet – this one from Oland in Sweden and dated to the Iron Age but apparently pre-Viking.  The figure, who is wearing a sword and carries a spear and a staff,  has been identified as Odin and is accompanied by a figure with a wolf’s head, also armed with sword and spear.

    Maybe (speculating wildly) the Einherjar, as the war band of Odin, got to wear horned helmets as a badge of their status, and the Vikings glimpsed in the trailer are supposed to represent them.

  31. The very interesting discussion on the horned helmets prompts a thought.

    Horned helmets represent for,say, a child, vikings. Similarly, the dragon type creature and the lion faced beast in the stagecoach also represent the kinds of images that might be expected in, say, a child’s storybook rather than the real world (well, real on some world or other given it’s Dr Who). The dragon looks just  too much like the accepted image of a dragon to be real; it’s a dragon from someone or something’s imagination. Reality and fantasy are jumbled and the Doctor will need to pull them apart (again).

    There again, the horned helmets might just be a mistake….

  32. @CountScarlioni Is there any specific child’s story that came into your mind? Or are
    you thinking this is some one’s dream or even perhaps some thing like when Clara and the
    Doctor visited Robin Hood – turning a legend into reality? There were mechanical men in that too.
    I have also been thinking a bit about the dragon and Vikings because the Norse myths had a few dragon
    stories. They used to put them on their ships too.

  33. @lisa I wasn’t thinking of a specific story; rather I had more of a general sense that maybe the Vikings with horned helmets, the dragon and the lion type beast are too just good to be true and have been produced/conjured up by somebody or something’s imagination.

  34. @CountScarlioni

    maybe the Vikings with horned helmets, the dragon and the lion type beast are too just good to be true and have been produced/conjured up by somebody or something’s imagination.

    Well yes!  Moffat’s imagination to be precise, fed no doubt by the imaginations of writers before him, and be a general knowledge of Norse mythology   🙂

    But I know what you mean.  I think that it is fairly well established by now that Moffat sees Doctor Who as being more fairy tale and fantasy than science fiction (insofar as it ever was science fiction), and that was very much apparent in the last season.

    On the other hand, I’m not sure that the fact that the dragon seen in the trailer looks like the generally accepted idea of a dragon in European tradition makes it any more or less ‘real’ in the context of the story.  The depiction of dragons in medieval and renaissance European art is pretty much consistent, the main variation being whether they had two or four legs (two being anatomically more likely).

    So I went back to Beowulf to get an idea of what a Dragon might have been like in the imagination of the Vikings.

    Like Smaug in The Hobbit, it guards a treasure in a cavern beneath a mound, and when someone steals from that treasure it emerges to wreak vengeance on the surrounding country.  It is serpentine – “… that sinuous creature…”  and “smooth scaled”, and in death it was found to measure 50 paces from head to tail.  It flies by night, so it has wings, and it breathes fire; and its fire is devastating.  It appears to have had at least one pair of legs, since it is described as rushing at Beowulf as they fought, and a very hard skull, since when Beowulf struck it with his sword, the sword broke..  It also has sharp teeth, which it sinks into Beowulf’s neck, and its bite is venomous   “the wound the dragon had inflicted with his teeth began to burn and swell: very soon he [Beowulf] was suffering intolerable pain as the poison boiled within him”.

    From that it sounds as if the writer envisaged something between a lizard and a winged snake, and dragons are sometimes referred to as ‘worms’ .  For what it is worth, the figurehead on the prow of the Gokstad ship, if it is meant to be a dragon, looks more like the head of a tortoise with fangs than either a snake or a lizard   😕

  35. Blogtor Who says that episode 9 has ‘found footage’ in it. Also that
    Capdoc is in it on his own. I wonder if they are showing footage
    of 1 the restored lost/found episodes inserting Capdoc into it ?

    @Ichabod I’m very ‘visually’ inclined. 🙂

  36. Oops!   When I wrote the above yesterday evening my memory must have been in scrambled mode, and this addendum is in the interests of absolute accuracy.  The possible Viking dragon figure head I was thinking of is from the Oseberg ship and was not, in fact, part of the ship itself.  To make matters worse, in my confused recollection I was amalgamating it with another possible figure head which probably represents a bird and is probably pre-Viking.  The Oseberg carving is elaborately decorated with interlace and the head itself has a short muzzle and goggle eyes.  In fact it looks more like a fantastic mammal than a dragon.

    Viking interlace patterns often feature elongated and highly stylised animals and birds, and some could represent dragons; it’s hard to say

  37. @CountScarlioni @mudlark @lisa

    This is very interesting: we have the gent director who did The Moon Egg (KtM) coming up and we appear to have either real or represented images of creatures as we did with R. Hood.

    When I saw KtM, the Forest/sun episode and The Hood episode (I can never remember the jolly ep’s names! -apologies) I thought “mm, is this in someone’s imagination?” I wondered if PC’s hair**, his use of the T-shirt rather than the shirt and coat meant that everything was occurring out of ‘time,’ as it were, or some events didn’t really happen at all. But then this would mean Clara and the Doctor would experience the same dream and we had that already <<*|*>> !

    I felt that with Robin Hood and KtM definitely. It just sends a tickle down my spine that some of this is occurring in another universe; as if a universe, replicated for the benefit of the Doctor or Clara,  has been created by an arch nemesis or perhaps a friend, who was once lost, and now found:

    “It’s you” says PC to M. Willaims character. Mind you, she’s a new character so that theory blows.

    Still; as you were saying, these dragons (which mudlark says look consistent throughout pictorial ‘evidence’ and story books) are stylized, somewhat and possibly, so are these other ‘creations’ in the rather short trailer?

    Hard to know: but I wonder what connects last year’s wonderfully ‘fantastic’ eps with those forthcoming? And why? We were gently led to the Missy reveal but perhaps there’s more below that icecap 🙂

    Kindest, puro.

    ** on the hair issue it turned out PC admitted to having haircuts during shoots (well, you would!) and also, that in getting in and out of the small Tardis in Listen, his hair was tamped down quite flat.

  38. Cult Box is saying that we are going to see the return of the Hath and Judoon.
    Wondering which episodes that’s going to happen in? Capaldi has said something
    about ‘darkness falling’ in this season too.

    So does anyone else want to see a new trailer release to dissect over the weekend?

  39. @lisa  You know, I’m not sure I want to see another trailer; too much familiarity, even just in visual terms, might take the edge of the real reveal. I don’t want to be yanked out of the story with little bursts of “Oh!  That’s the dragon!” or “Ah!  So this is what the thingie is doing there!”  There’s been a lot of peeks already, and we’re now less than a month out . . . Yep, they said #9 is a “one hander”, CapDoc on his own throughout — that’s a strong tease, and I’d like it left as it is.

    @purofilion  I hadn’t thought of the “fantasy” or “fairly tale” eps of S8 as possibly actual fantasy settings deliberately created inside some other character’s mind!  Which is, in a weird way, what that volcano scene is, in DW — a fantasy setting in Clara’s mind the produced by the dream patch + suggestions from the Doctor — but then she’s in a personal fantasy, while he’s in the TARDIS pretending to be in the volcano setting with her — hmm.  I think my brain just turned inside out.


  40. @lisa  Well, there you have it — I’m not a puzzle fan.  What I adore is that moment when something happens in a story that suddenly illuminates the clever or deeply satisfying resolution of a puzzle that I didn’t even know was there until that moment!  When they did that study at — was it Harvard? — a few years ago, to find out what reliably makes people ridiculously happy, even if only for a moment, the answer they came up with was, completely unexpected bits of good stuff dropping into your hands from nowhere.  That’s me — I love an unexpected view that takes your breath away, a drab meal with something utterly delicious in it, a check in the mail that I never expected, a compliment from someone I thought didn’t even know I was there, an unutterably gorgeous little passage in an unremarkable performance or, better yet, in a rough rehearsal of a chamber piece, where you know the artists will produce it again in performance because it’s good — but it will never ever be exactly like *that* again, all spontaneity and mystery, a gift, an instantaneous rent in the veil . . .


  41. @ichabod     You put it very well. I enjoyed seeing the trailer, because it was fun to get a little glimpse of what is to come, and get excited about the series. But I only watched it once, and have relatively little interest in mining it for clues. Not because I’m horrifically spoiler-averse, but because I tend to stay pretty much in the moment as the series goes along. I was largely uninterested in the mystery of Missy, because I knew that all would eventually revealed, and as episode followed episode, I was more involved with the gradual unveiling of this wonderful, mysterious new character, the Twelfth Doctor! Now, that puzzle fascinated me. Still does.  🙂

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