BBC approved Doctor Who series 9 spoilers and trailers

20 February 2015 in Trailers, 296 comments

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This is a blog where we can discuss official BBC production-team approved spoilers. It exists so that those who wish to be utterly unspoilered can avoid them.

Just to be clear, this is only for official info leaked by the BBC that will have been approved by Steven Moffat. Any other spoilers from any other source should be posted in the Spoilers thread found here: http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/forums/topic/spoilers-2/

As @Lisa and @fatmaninabox posted yesterday, the BBC has announced that Missy will be back!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/entries/6a78885d-e0b1-49a0-b7e8-cecba867a99f

@Lisa wondered if that is a vortex manipulator that Missy has on her wrist in the video.

NEW TRAILER PUBLISHED 9 JULY 2015

NEW TRAILER PUBLISHED 12 AUGUST 2015

AND A BRIEF TRAILER FOR EPISODE 1. ADDED 5 SEPTEMBER 2015


296 comments

  1. By the way, @lisa, I think that this thread is really only meant for discussion of trailers and announcements by the BBC or the DW production team. Spoilers from other sources (such as Cult Box) are meant to go on the Spoilers thread.

  3. @arbutus

    I often wonder if Clara has been a zygon for awhile! I don’t know why, but continuing on from the News Thread it makes me wonder to what extent Clara’s role has been fully defined and fleshed out.

    The trailer has made me wonder if the Zygons are in partnership with either the Dr or Missy, temporarily.

  4. @purofilion

    It would be in keeping with Moffat’s determined effort to convince small children that there is no such thing as an ‘evil race’ if he has one or more Zygons trying to help the Doctor. He’s even managed to retcon the built-in evil of the Daleks in S8 as ‘evil engineering’ rather than ‘evil genetics’.

    So in the new series, there might be a group of evil Zygons who are annoyed that they didn’t just conquer Earth, versus a group of good Zygons trying to help UNIT.

  5. Oh, and the idea of a ‘good’ Zygon has already been set up. Osgood’s Zygon – who knew, absolutely knew, which group were the Zygons – but who said nothing so that the treaty could be agreed.

  7. @pedant
    It was genetic engineering. But post Rusty, we’ve learnt that being genetically engineered to be evil isn’t sufficient. The Daleks also have ‘evil engineering’ electronic memory banks that divert any non-evil thoughts and store them in those switched off memory banks.

    The difference is important for the long-running story: it’s the difference between Daleks being helpless slaves of their genetics (and so, inevitably evil), and being the slaves of machinery that can be switched off.

  8. @Bluesqueakpip   @pedant

    …  it’s the difference between Daleks being helpless slaves of their genetics (and so, inevitably evil), and being the slaves of machinery that can be switched off.

    Similarly, as we saw in the case of Danny in Death in Heaven, deletion or suppression of the emotions in cybermen isn’t just a matter of tampering with the wetware, it requires hardware with a switch.

    Maybe this raises further questions about how much of emotion is the product of hormonal activity, and thus presumably relatively easy to suppress, and how much a phenomenon (or epiphenomenon) related to the functioning of the brain/mind; and for that matter, would it differ between humans and aliens.  Which where Doctor Who is concerned is perhaps delving a little too deep   😕

  9. @mudlark

    What’s an ‘epiphenomenon?’

    I actually like that whole idea of the suppressing of emotions and the need to switch off hardware. I always thought -in the early days- that it was the brain or ‘wetware’ which was created or re-created for the cybermen to be programmed and for their emotions to be ‘sidestepped’ or deleted in order to properly function. In the episode where Craig experiences the beginning of the ‘cyber’ process, we can see how Craig’s response is affected by the cries of his baby, Alfie. So, yes, whilst a complex discussion, it’s certainly worthwhile: after all, we still have a month to go!

    Cheers, Puro

  10. @mudlark  But if emotion is a product, mostly, of hormonal activity, then how can the cybermen even have any emotion to start with that needs to be turned off?  If your body is basically dead and only mechanically reanimated by some central power source that controls you this way, there wouldn’t be any release or flow of hormones, would there?  So emotion has to be at least in part generated and set into motion through — brain activity unrelated to hormones, or something else?

  11. @purofilion  @ichabod

    puro   An epiphenomenon is a side effect or by-product of a process. So, for example, there is a theory held by some that consciousness is an epiphenomenon of the operation of a complex brain.

    The design of cybermen in AG Who has fostered a perception of them as robotic, but as envisaged originally BG they were cyborgs; essentially human or humanoid beings who had responded to environmental stress by augmenting or replacing elements of their organic bodies with cybernetic and mechanical components.  The result, whether or not intended, had been to supress or eliminate emotion, which they came to see as obstacles to rational thinking and therefore undesirable. So when confronted with beings who exhibited messy emotional illogicality they, naturally enough, felt it imperative to ‘convert’ them.  When RTD reintroduced them AG they were rather different – seemingly just a human brain and nervous system in a mechanical body, as designed by the Cybus Corporation, and since then they seem to have strayed even further from their origins. But they have always required a living organic brain and organic core.  In Death in Heaven, as I understood it, the ‘pollen’ which rained on to the graveyards consisted of nano-machines which reconstructed brains and elements of organic bodies from the traces in the graves, as well as the cyber bodies to sustain them, because both were necessary to contain the minds downloaded from the matrix data slice. So in no sense were the resurrected cybermen ‘dead’.  And Danny, whose organic body had not even had time to decompose, was clearly suffering acute emotional distress until Clara turned the dial to the ‘off’ position.

    My knowledge of neurobiology and the endocrine system is superficial, so I am probably simplifying things more than a little, but from what I know, emotions are the product of a very complex interaction between hormones and the brain, .  Hormones trigger the most powerful emotions, even if those emotions may be mediated by the brain, and if you have ever been prescribed beta blockers you will know the effect of having certain hormones suppressed.  Fear ceases to be a super power. On the other hand, some hormones are essential for the brain to function properly, so if you wanted to eliminate emotions in a cyborg you would need to be very selective in blocking or modifying hormonal activity.

    It seems, therefore, that – in human beings, at least, – you could not eliminate emotions simply by modifying the mind/brain, or by removing the glands producing hormones entirely; it would have to be by a selective blocking of hormones an neural impulses.

     

    xc

     

  12. Hi. I’m the Consulting Doctor, and I’m new to the forum.  Here is my opinion on Maisie Williams, and I’m sorry if this is the wrong place to put it.

    Three weeks until Season 9! And even longer until we finally realize something that will then seem either obvious or (hopefully not) disappointing.  At the end of the trailer, as I’m sure everyone knows, Maisie Williams is introduced by saying, “What took you so long old man.” Hopefully by now I am right in saying that some people have calmed down about this one short scene, but since I have only joined the forum now, I might as well tell you what I think about it.  Before I say my theory though, I want to tell you who I am almost 100% sure she is NOT.

    1. She is definitely NOT Jenny, the Doctor’s Daughter.  Here is why.  As much as I would love for her to return in a future episode, if she did return she would still be played by Georgia Moffett.  The Doctor said himself that she was too much like him, but still not enough like him to regenerate.  The reason she lived was not because of regeneration but because of the life source on the planet that she lived.  It brings life to the planet, and if you go back to the episode you can see that the light she breaths out is the same light as the life source.  I admit that the first time I watched the episode that I thought she had regenerated too.  If she had regenerated then it would have happened almost instantly.  She would not have died before regeneration, there would be fire shooting out of her arms and head, and she would have changed her appearance.

    2. River is the second person that she cannot possibly be.  Not only has River used up a huge amount of her regeneration energy on the Doctor, but we have also already seen all of her regenerations. First she was a baby who grew up to be the girl in the orphanage. She regenerated into Amy and Rory’s friend. Then, she regenerated into River.  You see in River’s first episode that she dies as River and never regenerates again after that,  This is the same reason that even though she was my first guess for Missy, Missy couldn’t be River either. Of course, there is the possibility that Maisie could be between the orphan girl and teenage Melody because you don’t don’t really see who she becomes from there.  That would explain The Girl Who Died title, but I don’t really even want to think about that.  River used to be one of my favorite characters because of the mystery behind her, but I honestly have to say, hopefully along with the rest of the fandom, that she’s had her story.  I hope that Maisie isn’t River because that would just be getting repetitive and boring.  There would be no reason for her to come back as Maisie because Moffat has done what he can with her character.

    To Be Continued…

  13. Continuing my last post…

    To quickly address the Susan/Maisie theory. I believe that this is a possibility, and I would be glad if she was Susan. I really doubt it is her though.  If it was a past character, she would definitely be the most likely person, but I don’t think it is her because I don’t think that Maisie Williams is even an old character. There…I said it.  Here is why.

    Even before Moffat said himself that she is a new character (unless he’s lying), I had already thought that the probability of her being a new character is the highest.  The BBC has done this before.  At the end of one of the episodes last season, Clara said that she wasn’t Clara Oswald and that she had never even existed.  That turned out to mean nothing. Absolutely nothing…at all.  That was just there way of getting people talking and interested.  I think that they’re doing the same thing here.  They put her at the end of the trailer to make the fandom talk.  I doubt she’ll be in more than two episodes.  It was probably just to get the attention of some Game of Thrones fans.

    Moffat did say that they aren’t just ‘throwing her away’,  but that could mean tons of different things.  She could be a future companion, or she could come back in maybe a future single episode.  Maybe she is just an important part of the season’s story arc.

    Thanks for reading my opinion.

  14. I just also wanted to add that it feel so good to finally get out those last two post to the world.  That’s the first time I’ve been able to discuss it online.

  15. @TheConsultingDoctor I suspect you are right and the M.W. character is entirely new however I am not sure about Jenny being unable to regenerate. I rather thought her revival at the end of that episode was rather ambiguous. I think Moffat’s intention was that the character be allowed to live so that “Jenny” was available to future writers. As actor’s move on I doubt very much that he would have wanted that on the proviso that the character be tied to the actor. I would imagine that from a TV writer’s perspective the beauty of a character who can regenerate is that they are not committed to using the same actor if they wish to reuse the character. So I think it is possible that she is Jenny but not likely likewise it is possible she is Susan but not likely.

    I doubt that M.W will be a future companion. I think she is still firmly committed to GoT for at least one more season and I suspect, (once again) that Arya is one of those rare few destined to be still alive at the end of it all, if there ever is an end.

    Cheers

    Janette

  16. @janetteb Sorry, but this is really bothering that no one is realizing this. JENNY CANNOT REGENERATE! I’m not saying her character can’t come back, but she would still look the same.

    Actually, I take that back…now that I think about it, it might be like in the impossible astronaut or the end of season 3 with master where because they get shot they don’t have time to regenerate. Well, with the master that was more because he didn’t want to regenerate, but it’s still the same thing as in The Impossible Astronaut. I still stand by the life source thing, but I guess it is possible that if she is killed again and actually has time to regenerate, she might be able to.  I get what you’re saying about being able to use a different actress later.

    And about the future companion thing, I doubt that would happen too.  I was just saying that as an unlikely possibility for Moffat saying that they aren’t just using her once and being done with her.

  21. @Craig   Whoopee! my alter ego – in profession at least, if in few other respects.  But hey, a girl (even one old enough to be Alex’s mother) can dream   🙂

  23. @Craig Hooray ! This seems to be stacking up to be an awesome season !
    I’m hopeful it means River’s ‘song’ still has many many more verses in it.

  24. If Clara leaves in episode 12 then I wonder if River is returning for the Doctor
    to help him thru that event? They are coming out with a lot of stuff with the River
    character in the next months.

  25. When I read that on the Guardian I was smiling from ear to ear. I was saying to R.1 the other day that I did not think last year’s Christmas special could be bettered. Maybe I was wrong.

    Many felt that the poignancy of her farewell to the Doctor in The Name of the Doctor but as Dan Martin points out that is her farewell to Smithy Doc. I really would prefer it to be River from earlier along her time line as I always had the impression that she was familiar with his future selves or at least more than just Tennant and Smith though in the end I am sure whatever Moffat pulls out of his bigger on the inside hat will be good.

    Cheers

    Janette

    Oh and P.S. @TheConsultingDoctor I have now rewatched The Doctor’s Daughter and found nothing to indicate that Jenny cannot regenerate. It seems that current thinking on regeneration is that is is an acquired ability, ie River Song, but the effect of the Time Vortex very clearly effects the DNA so therefor, being born from the Doctor’s DNA one would assume that Jenny can indeed regenerate. And for that matter, come to think of it, it would also indicate that Susan can regenerate presuming the Doctor had regeneration coded into his DNA before becoming a father. Possibly his parents were also time travellers and he inherited the ability. So if that is the case can Danny and Orson regenerate? The time travelling ancestor might have been a time lord not a human. (ok now I am veering off into the realms of fantasy.)

    Cheers

    Janette

     

  26. @JanetteB, @lisa, @Craig, @Blenkinsopthebrave @mudlark– so happy about the return of River.

    Could she become a regular companion though? I’m not sure- she refused to travel full time with eleven- and I do think he was ‘her’ doctor. Kingston would have an amazing chemistry with Capalidi, but I think she works well as a recurring character. I’d love to see her up against Missy, frankly, but I can also hear the fanboy screams of derision from here…

    Regarding Danny/Orson- where are we with Orson with Danny being dead? Assuming Clara wasn’t pregnant at the end of the last season, where does Orson come from? If Clara was pregnant at the end of the last season, there would be a decent chance her child would have regeneration ability and I’m not sure it would be a good idea to go that way again.

  27. @Miapatrick

    I agree that it is highly unlikely (or indeed, even desirable) that River become a permanent companion. I love her, and she is brilliant, but she shines so brightly that to have her and the Doctor together on-screen on a permanent basis would, I suspect, undermine the centrality of the Doctor to the show. Let’s face it, the show is “Doctor Who”. I am not sure I can see it working as “Dr and Mrs Who”. But if the Christmas special sets up the conditions for possible future appearances of River, that would be fabulous.

    As for Orson, I, too, have wondered about this, and I suspect it is one of those questions that we will never find out the answer to. SM has been known to simply ignore pre-established things when he wants to (eg, the Blinovitch Limitation Effect in “A Christmas Carol” with Michael Gambon) and I think he may simply ignore the whole Orson question. Still, he does have a habit of pulling rabbits out of narrative hats, so who knows?

  28. @Miapatrick @Janette and everyone Does anyone doubt that River’s first words
    will be Hello Sweetie ? But also do we think that there is the possibility of a ‘cat’
    fight between River and Missy ? Do we all want to see that? Plus what else do we want
    to see in this return of River? Anybody ?

  29. @MIapatrick. I doubt very much that River would return as a permanent character and like @Blenkinsopthebrave I don’t think it would work if she did. Like the Paternoster Gang and UNIT she is wonderful as a recurring character, more interesting because we see less of her. I really like the returning characters. They give the world of the series more depth.

    @Lisa Her first words have to be “hello sweetie.”

    Mia, I have a theory about Danny, Orson and the toy soldier which I explained recently in the Death in Heaven thread. Well actually I have several theories but my favourite at the moment is that Danny and Orson are actually twins. Danny was taken by Missy back in time and placed in the orphanage. She engineered his life so that he got the job at Coal Hill and eventually got hit by a car leading Clara and the Doctor to her. (The boys are currently watching Sherlock s3, ep 1 and suddenly I feel like the theorising ex cop in that.)

    I do really hope that we see Orson again and get an explanation of the mystery though it suspect that may not be until the end of Clara’s time on the Tardis. Moffat does like to keep some threads dangling for a long time to to keep us amused..

    Cheers

    Janette

  30. @Miapatrick

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    On Clara, Danny and Orson, here is Moffat in Doctor Who Magazine at the end of last year.

    “I can think of several explanations, but the obvious one is that Orson comes from another branch of the family. He knows about Danny’s heroic sacrifice, because Clara got in touch with the Pink family after the events of Death in Heaven (because you would, wouldn’t you?), and told them what he did, and why. And she gave them the little soldier, as a keepsake of a great man and a great soldier – and because she knows the toy soldier has to remain in the Pink family line.

    “Now all that strikes me as pretty inevitable – that’s what would have happened – but I’m not saying it’s right. Nothing is actual till it’s in the show. Knowing how the season would end, we were careful, in never to define exactly what the connection was.”

    I suppose, as he’s handed us this explanation, we can probably assume it’s not the correct one.

  32. @Craig thanks for the link. There are a lot of snippets there that I would have thought were from different episodes. I don’t think I could even attempt to theorise on the basis of that but I do love the hands. It certainly looks as though it is going to be a bumper episode and only two weeks to go!!

    @CountScarlioni I hope that is not the eventual explanation as it is rather ordinary. I think I will stick with my pet theory until proven wrong.

    Cheers

    Janette

  34. I think that at around 6 seconds into this new trailer when Clara and Missy are
    standing side by side they might both be wearing vortex manipulators on their wrists?

  35. @blenkensopthebrave- agreed. She does have a powerful link with the Tardis, though, so I think reoccurance is a possibility. Moffat loves this character anyway, and loves Kingston in it. (I was going to say that he had ensured that only Kingston could play River now, but that isn’t quite true…) @lisa I think the howls of despair and ARSE that would result from a Missy-River catfight would- completely be worth it, how do I start a petition?

    I do think Moffat leaves a lot of threads hanging so he can use them later. Maybe he just wanted the option of re-using the actor?

    @JannetteB- what if the time travelling ancestor Orson talked about was Missy?

    @CountScarloni- hmm, very sceptical of that, not least because, as you point out, it comes from Moffat, and also because she first saw Danny in an orphanage, and the only mention we have ever seen of his family is one rather vaugue ‘family stuff’ from Danny.

  37. New stuff on Series 9 on the BBC website:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/entries/89a92cdc-5abe-4991-add8-8560c8f6dcd1

    It includes details on episode 2: “Trapped and alone in a terrifying Dalek city, the Doctor is at the heart of an evil Empire; no sonic, no TARDIS, nobody to help. With his greatest temptation before him, can the Doctor resist? And will there be mercy?”

    Hooray! No sonic. Now he will really have to think.

    Also, is it me or is the Doctor’s hair becoming bouffant in the same way that the third Doctor’s did?

     

  39. @Craig

    “….at least until we wipe the smile off your face”.

    Ah, Moffat. 🙂

    Thank you Craig: great stuff.

    @Miapatrick

    “what if the time travelling ancestor Orson talked about was Missy?”

    Ooh, I love that Miss Patrick! A great theory.

     

  40. @craig — nice little vid. Am I the only one who thinks Capaldi totally is the Doctor at the moment, even when he’s just being Capaldi? That’s a sensation I haven’t really felt since Tom Baker.

  42. @Miapatrick I had several theories regarding Missy and Danny over on the Death in Heaven thread. If she was the ancestor mentioned then it was probably the Master who was the culprit hence the gender ambiguity when Orson talks of his ancestor. I also like the idea that Barbara and Ian might be the ancestor/s referred to or it could be Susan, if he has been taken back in time by Missy. I do love a mystery. So many tantalising possibilities. I hope we don’t find out the answer to the question of who Orson is too soon..

    @countscarlioni and @craig thanks for the links. It looks as though episode two is half a series in itself and the interviews were very interesting.

    Cheers

    Janette

  43. Reverting to the topic of Odin and Norse mythology as discussed earlier, I am currently reading The Gospel of Loki by Joanne Harris, which is the lowdown on the gods of Asgard and their history according to Loki, the Trickster, the outsider and the rebel.  Fun, if you don’t mind a colloquial, not to say anachronistic take on the stories.  At the end is a rendering of the Voluspo (the Sybil’s vision) in rhyming verse – accessible, although to my mind a bit clunky and flat in tone.

  45. oh my  now who are they talking about plots within plots etc…  is it Missy or someone else given that he refers to this mysterious person as he/him not her.

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