Revolution of the Daleks

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  • #71265
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Happy New Year and welcome back to Doctor Who. It’s kinda been a while. Thank you to those who have been using the site, and my apologies for being a bit absent for most of this year.

    I don’t know much about this but, yes, the deadly pepper pots are back. The Doctor is imprisoned halfway across the universe. On Earth, the sighting of a Dalek alerts Ryan, Graham and Yaz. Can the return of Captain Jack Harkness help them stop a deadly Dalek takeover?

    Written by Chris Chibnall, this is directed by Lee Haven Jones who did the quite good “Spyfall pt 2”, and the quite terrible “Orphan 55” last season. Chibnall’s last Dalek episode, “Resolution”, was okay, so here’s hoping this is one of the better ones. I really hope he doesn’t retcon the whole Dalek race in this episode.

    #71280
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Well that was and wasn’t what I was expecting, felt like a bit like a glorified overlong goodbye episode which it was, I suppose the news of Walsh’s and Tosin’s departure being leaked months ago probably has exaggerated this. The Doctor’s solution to the Dalek situation felt a bit trite and the Doctor’s escape from pokey also felt like a missed opportunity. There is so much more that could have been done with her time in prison. I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy it but I think I’m going to need time to process the episode and perhaps some rewatches 🤨

    #71281
    Jamjarr @jamjarr

    Just seen it.

     

    Trying not to give spoilers.

     

    I liked the story, and bringing Jack back was always a good idea.

     

    However, I really, really didn’t like the fake Daleks.

     

    The neon red to make them look evil…. why?

     

    They Daleks. Don’t mess that much with the design.

     

    Having said that, I need to point something out.

     

    2020 has been a sh!t show, and although I’ve seen every episode of NuWho, I’d never seen the older stuff.

     

    I’m in my mid 40’s, and never seen old Doctor Who.

     

    So…

     

    In February I decided to start watching it all from An unearthly child onwards.

     

    And just before Christmas I finished classic Doctor Who.

     

    I even watched the Eastenders crossover.

     

    And you know what?

     

    I loved it all.

     

    I’m not stopping….

     

    I’ve got all the expanded tv shows and NuWho to go through too…

     

    I got to say….

     

    Of all the companions…

     

    Ace is my favourite.

     

    Can you imagine her dealing with the current crop of Daleks?

    #71282
    TranslatorCircuit @translatorcircuit

    This New Year’s special was yet another excellent example of a constantly twisting plot as we have seen with Showrunner Chris Chibnall in the past! There were references to so many Doctor Who episodes from the era of the thirteenth Doctor, as well as the return of Captain Jack from the ninth Doctor’s era.
    Ever since Series 12 ended, I thought this episode would be mainly about the Doctor being in prison and escaping with some involvement from the Daleks in achieving this. I was sadly mistaken and things soon moved on from prison to another setting.

     

    We got flashbacks to the 2019 New Year’s Special “Resolution”, as well as the character Jack Robertson from Series 11 episode “Arachnids in the UK”. His mad lust for power gave the Daleks a better opportunity to take over the planet Earth. He was working with a politician called Jo Patterson, of an unnamed party which was the governing party, but of course they never said which party it was. She was wearing red, whi8ch suggested Labour. She started out as Secretary for Technology, then was elected party leader, immediately becoming Prime Minister after that. This  is something that has happened in real life during 2019, as well as in 2016, 2007, 1990, and 1976. This turn of events gave Jack Robertson the opportunity he needed to build Daleks based on stolen technology, although he claimed not to know what Daleks were.

     

    it seems like The Doctor spent about 30 years in prison but as we know from the Classic Series story “Attack of The Cybermen”, that’s just “a handful of heartbeats to a Time Lord”! I don’t know why the Doctor was sentenced to life imprisonment but it seems it may have been because of evading the Judoon for lots of generations, dating back to the Ruth Doctor, who we saw in the series 12 episode “Fugitive of the Judoon”.</span>

     

    Jack Robertson’s company has somehow been corrupted by the Daleks as if it wasn’t corrupted enough already! The situation has become so confused  that even Jack Robertson doesn’t know what’s going on!</span>

     

    The Prime Minister announces a brilliant new scheme of security drones, which are based on Dalek designs.

     

    The Dalek creatures start to carry out some kind of Star Trek Borg type assimilation on The Doctor’s companions in Osaka, Japan,  but Captain Jack shoots them down.

     

    The Doctor has been separated from her companions for 10 months instead of hardly any time at all. This brings back memories  of Series 1, when The Doctor and Rose arrived back at Rose’s home 12 months after leaving instead of 12 hours.

     

    Jack Robertson’s employee Leo managed to to set up a Dalek creature clone factory in Osaka, Japan but it’s not clear when he did this because he was only recently taken over by the Daleks at the time when he reveals this factory has been set up.</span>

     

    The Doctor is suffering from an identity crisis! This has been caused by the revelations of “The Timeless Children”, as well as spending about 30 years in prison.

     

    Jack Robertson seems to go from bad to worse where he will do anything to make a profit. This includes making a deal with the Daleks, so long as as he can become the leader of Earth and make as much money as possible out of it!

     

    One mystery is that the Daleks know who the Doctor is, although their memories of this were deleted during the episode “Asylum of The Daleks” and I don’t know when they ever got them back. Perhaps that episode was set in the future relative to 2021, when this episode is set. Who knows?

     

    I thought there was something for everyone in this Doctor who story!</span>

     

    #71284
    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    @jamjarr     Just to pick up on one point – yes, I really liked Ace too.   I was initially prejudiced against the character because, who calls themselves ‘Ace’?     But Sophie Aldred was great in the role and she really had some ‘chemistry’ with Sylvester McCoy, it shows through in the episodes, and you can see it in their appearances together at Cons.   (There’s quite a lot of footage on Youtube of the various doctors and companions at Cons, which might be worth your while viewing while you’re working through Who).

    Similarly, I thought Sylvester McCoy looked silly, having just seen still pictures of him with his question-mark clothing – again, quite the opposite when I saw him in episodes.    It’s a pity he and Ace didn’t have more time to establish the more substantial storylines they were starting to get.

    #71286
    TranslatorCircuit @translatorcircuit

    Craig, where is my long post which appeared here before, but after I deleted some tags it disappeared? Please can you sort this problem out ASAP? I”m not even allowed to post it again, because this is detected,l then I get an error message!

    #71288
    MissRori @missrori

    It didn’t need to be so long.  Given how chunks of it recycled material from “Resolution of…” (as well as, as pointed out elsewhere, other “Humans can make this Dalek thing work!” stories), I wonder if the endless plot complications were an attempt to disguise a lack of new ideas for a Dalek story.  I miss the snappier conversations and quiet moments of Twelve’s episodes; a lot of the equivalents here are more like characters lecturing each other, and more telling than showing.  The Doctor being tossed in the clink came off as a throwaway to justify getting Ryan and Graham out of the travelling business more than anything, which was very disappointing, as was her apparently brushing off the whole destruction of Gallifrey thing and, for some reason, choosing to brood over the issue of her identity instead when that was already resolved in “The Timeless Children”.  And surely the Doctor could have called up some other cavalry instead of phoning up the extra-murdery Daleks?

    And why are they adding a new companion already?  I thought Series 13 was gonna be Yaz’s time to shine!  On the whole, not a promising precursor to the season…

    #71295
    GalaxyMage @galaxymage

    I apologize in advance if this shows up multiple times; I was having difficulty posting.

    In my opinion, this was an excellent episode. Maybe I’ve just been starved for Doctor Who, but the whole episode was just super exciting for me. Even with the commercials, it completely captured my interest and kept it until the resolution.

    So that I can end on a positive note, I’ll start with my issues for the episode, of which there are only two. One, what happened to those two refugees that landed on Earth? They weren’t even mentioned. I’ll assume they began their own lives and didn’t stay in touch. Secondly, A TARDIS IS A LIVING CREATURE! That poor TARDIS that got crumpled died. I guess maybe that TARDIS wasn’t sentient? I still feel like this is a problem, but oh well. There have been worse plot holes.

    Now onto the fun part: what I liked. I thought Jack Robertson was a really fun character, for some reason. He’s an awful person but he seemed so realistic. And that part at the end with him getting the credit? Also awful, but super realistic. I couldn’t help but break out laughing, because what else do you do? Cry? Anyway, that part just felt right—bad, but right.

    I loved the “we do get aliens in Sheffield”, the bike scene reprise (I love full-circle endings, they just seem poetic), and of course the Grace briefly illuminated by the sun. Ryan actually had character—lots of it. He really shined in a way that I feel like he didn’t before, though sadly it might be too little too late for his character.

    And, of course, Yaz’s conversation with Jack was excellent. She doesn’t forgive the Doctor easily, and is worried that she’ll leave, but she decides that whatever time she has is worth it. This really embodies life, doesn’t it? Because one day you die, and that’s sad. It’s really, really sad that you’ll die. But that doesn’t mean that you should stop living your life just because it’ll end someday. In fact, that’s precisely why you should KEEP living. So the conversation really rang true for me.

    Of course, the character moments are only half of what makes an episode great—it also needs to have great twists and plot points. So, the actual plot itself has been done twice already with Daleks alone, which is a mark against it. But it still felt original, in part because of the solutions and in part because it also had various secondary plots. I loved the “bring in more Daleks to kill the Daleks” idea, and I especially loved the TARDIS switch (minus the minor problem stated above). That was just such a clever idea, I can even forgive the oversight of TARDIS sentience!

    And, like I said, I felt that it was really fast-paced. It didn’t waste time with unnecessary scenes. It had a lot to do, and it did nearly all of it. I loved this episode, and while it’s not my absolute favorite, I think it can take its place among the ones that I would watch again and again.

    TLDR: I loved this episode! The ending wrapped up Ryan and Graham’s arc perfectly, better than I could even imagine. Yaz and Jack had a great conversation. Robertson was so real that I almost liked his character even though I hate his personality. The episode’s premise may not have been the most original, but the Doctor’s solutions were. There were two minor issues (what happened to the refugees and TARDISes are sentient) but I can easily forgive them because this episode just made me so happy.

    #71296
    Davros @davros

    For mine, this was a satisfying special. I managed to avoid spoiler, trailers, gossip etc so all I was aware of was that the Daleks were involved and that Jack was coming back.

     

    Jack was well-used and the quips landed.

    Doc: “Have you had work done?”

    Harkness: “YOU can talk…”

     

     

    Robertson if anything was more of a Trump parody here. That “man, person, human” line reminded me of DJT saying “woman, person, man, camera, tv”.

     

    Got to admit, I’m not sorry to see Ryan go. I never felt that Tosin’s heart was in this. If you’re going to play a companion you’ve got to just throw yourself into the role. Graham will be a loss, though, loved his energy and humour.

     

    Fan fic rewrite: rather than have the Tardis fold in on itself, why not switch off the spatial containment engineering and have the star explode out (blooming, per Engines Of War). I’d be pleased to see that used in the TV show.

    #71297
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    Hi everyone!

    OK, so.

    Yaz was great in this I thought. Rather what I always wanted of her through the last two series. And I like the fact that she was working on finding the Doctor, but didn’t in the end, though maybe she would have eventually. There is still this sense of all these adventures and growing that she’s done since meeting the Doctor, most of which we haven’t exactly seen. More focus on Yaz in the future can only be good.

    Ryan and Graham had less to do this time. Which is fine, just a little odd because it is their final episode. (Though clearly the Doctor will meet with them again while they’re sorting out something alien happening on earth armed with the psychic paper, I do feel promised the odd episode length reappearance. If Walsh isn’t too busy devising even more complicated gameshow formats that compel contestants to spend even more time hanging around and chatting to him.). I think most of this is only a little bit of a problem because of the gap.

    The thrust of the Dalek story has been done, not just with Daleks. I quite like the recurring theme of Earth being almost constantly in danger not just because of invading enemies but because of how easily we can be manipulated into reproducing said invading enemies. I liked the idea of getting ‘pure’ Daleks to wipe out the mutated ones, not so much the method of getting rid of the pure ones – as someone has pointed out, aren’t Tardises sentient?

    I like the idea the Doctor is on the run, because she is on the run now isn’t she? It was lovely to see Jack again, especially bonding with Yaz about the heartbreak that comes with loving the Doctor.

    I do as ever miss Moffart, but not, I hope, in an entitled, raging sense. They put Dracula back on iPlayer though, so I enjoyed that over Christmas.

    As for the new year, I have an assignment worth 25% of my MA due on the 14th, After that, I shall be subscribing to Britbox for a while and binging bg Who while I wait for my dissertation module to begin.

    Happy New Year!

    #71298
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    I forgot to say I, as ever, appreciate the fact that we do not see Ryan Master The Bicycle. Dyspraxic representation.

    #71299
    BadWolfAlice @badwolfalice

    That was pretty good. I think the Doctor trapping in the Daleks in the spare TARDIS and sending them to the void (possibly using the ’emergency unit’ previously used in The Mind Robber? I just watched the first episode of that serial the other day so that’s what came to mind) was a clever resolution. Although, as pointed out above, it’s slightly marred when you realise that TARDISes are supposed to be sentient beings and the Doctor just destroyed one.

    I was hoping that series 13 would just have Yaz as a companion to give her some more development, especially as it’s a truncated series, but never mind. I don’t know much about John Bishop but hopefully he’ll be good too.

    #71300
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Yes, I thought that was pretty good. I think the Doctor being tossed in the clink for nineteen years may have been a slight leg pull for Steven Moffat and his ‘am I a good man’ arc, in that the Whittaker Doctor has now also had a long period of identity crisis … but offscreen.

    The ten month mistake also proved to have dramatic point, as it was long enough for Ryan to settle back into life on Earth and to have time to realise he preferred it to travelling among the stars. I think Graham was always (barring Tim Shaw) more along to try and protect his grandson, so it made perfect sense that he’d go when Ryan went.

    TARDISES are sentient – which also means that TARDIS may have consented to a suicide run if it would save a planet from being destroyed by Daleks. We don’t know; it wasn’t included in the script.

    I am still somewhat annoyed at Gallifrey being destroyed yet again, but only somewhat. The Doctor briefly considered changing the timeline so she got back earlier – so I’m happy to wait until the end of this arc to see if there’s another timeline change coming for Gallifrey. If we’re constantly being reminded that Time Lords can change time, I’ll presume a major time change is coming up before the end of Act III.

    And I loved the way Ryan and Graham ended their arc the way it began – with Grace still with them in spirit and Ryan still trying to ride that bike.

    #71301
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Ooh, and did anyone notice that the Doctor thinks Jack’s never had a room in the TARDIS but Jack said he had a suite? Either Jack’s travelled with a now forgotten incarnation, or their timelines are slightly out of synch.

    #71302
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @jamjarr

    From a production point of view, I think the neon was to give us an easy way of telling the two Dalek factions apart. From a story point of view, the jazzy light show was to demonstrate that these were human designed Daleks. Face it, we do tend to think everything robotic looks better with flashing lights.

    #71303
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Well, first viewing: I felt it was more of a simulacrum of Doctor Who, than actually Doctor Who. Perhaps 15 minutes (toward the end) of real Who and an hour of something between a soap and a drama.

    Compare the opening premise here of a repurposed Dalek to become the face of policing (with a satire on corporate greed thrown in) to the opening premise of Paul Verhoeven’s Robocop. Verhoeven was brilliant in every way. This was feeble by comparison.

    Then, endless amounts of exposition, so that instead of moving forward at a clip, the story moves like treacle as every single thing is verbalised and explained to us.

    Finally, when the real Daleks arrive, it start to feel like Who, but it is all over fairly quickly, and we are back to the soap. For anyone who can remember back to the way Barbara and Ian left the Hartnell Doctor or, even more impressively in terms of emotion, the departure of Susan from the Hartnell Doctor, they were both masterclasses of writing and acting in comparison to what Chibnall offered.

    For me, the best realised character was Robertson, which I was not expecting.

    Sorry, but the Chibnall years feel a lot like the JNT years. A bit embarrassing.

     

    #71304
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    Martin Belam, who wrote this year’s recap over at T’Other Place, made a very good point. He was watching this with his kids, aged seven and ten. The bits he found clunky were also the bits where the seven-year-old was going ‘aha!’

    The Verhoeven film was brilliant. It was also rated 18 in the UK. It was not aimed squarely at the family market and it could afford to be far subtler in its satire.

    I agree Chibnall’s pacing is considerably slower than both RTD and Moffat, but on a second viewing it feels more like the story has room to breathe – and I remember thinking he was pacing it for the kids, not the adults.

    #71305
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @bluesqueakpip

    I thought Martin Belam provided a very good assessment of the episode, particularly his reflection that “it was an extremely long slow burn of a set up before it got going”. Exactly. I am talking about pacing, and about showing, rather than explaining, what is happening.

    For example, my reference to “Robocop”. The opening of Verhoeven’s movie wasn’t brilliant because it was violent, it was brilliant because it managed to communicate everything at the beginning (in the way Chibnall was trying to communicate) in a very concise way (the board meeting, the claim to have found a technological solution, the the calamitous outcome at the board meeting, and the satirically cynical response of the person proposing the idea). Chibnall essentially gives us exactly the same set-up, but it takes forever to get to the point. We see the Dalek from Resolution being driven away, there is a stop at the side of the road, the truck is driven away, there is huddled discussion between Robertson and the scientist, there is a demonstration of the Dalek to the corrupt politician…come on, Verhoeven’s movie had moved way beyond this by this time. It’s like, you know exactly what Chibnall is trying to do, but you are overcome with a desperate desire to go and make a coffee before he gets to his point.

    And should add that I am not implying that Chibnall is drawing on Verhoeven without acknowledgement. I suspect that Chibnall is probably completely unaware of Robocop. What Chibnall is aware of, and can do quite well, is the sort of emotionally tortured slow-burn drama that was Broadchurch.

    Can he do Doctor Who? I don’t think he can.

    #71306
    nerys @nerys

    OK, I’m going to have to watch this again when there’s not a grumpy spouse in the room who can’t remember the last two episodes of last season, is going “What?” when the Doctor says she’s not who she remembers, and is honked off at any messing around with the Doctor’s origin story. (Like that’s a new thing in the Whoniverse.)

    My usual complaint, watching it in Canada, has to do with the commercial interruptions, which completely disrupt the flow of an episode. That is probably my biggest issue with any new episode of Doctor Who, watching it as I do on cable during the current season. It’s not a problem once a new season has started and the uninterrupted episodes become available, on demand. But I have to wait for that to happen.

    Because of those interruptions (and grumpy spouse giving colour commentary throughout), the episode didn’t flow for me, emotionally. There were parts that I knew were meant to have emotional pull, but they didn’t move me as much as I would have liked. Maybe on second viewing, they will.

    Captain Jack Harkness is such a breath of fresh air! I had forgotten that only the companions met him last time around, but the Doctor missed out.

    Jodie Whittaker exuded more power this time around, which I liked. I would love to see her Doctor and Jack in more scenes together!

    #71307
    winston @winston

    I watched it and I liked it but I definitely need to watch again so I can catch more of the quick dialogue between Jack and The Doctor during the escape. The prison scenes were great for a geek like me with some of the old baddies locked up with the Doctor . When Jack says how much he missed the sound of the Tardis I totally agreed ….with only a little wind in my eyes.

    Sorry to see Ryan and Graham leaving but happy to see they will use the Doctors gift to have their own adventures saving the earth.

    I am really grossed out by the backpack Dalek and a whole factory full of them was disgusting. I was happy when they got their new suits. Put your clothes on Dalek!

    Any way I will watch it again trying to pay more attention to what is happening and less on “oh look , a weeping angel, an angry Ood, the spider guy, hey, its Captain Jack!”

    It was a great way to start a new year and it made me happy for a little while.

    Stay safe everyone.

    #71308
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @bluesqueakpip – yes, that confusion with Jack. The most likely time to me seemed to be when he was travelling with Nine. I kept thinking – why wouldn’t he have a room? Didn’t eleven and the bunkbeds at least establish the idea of bedrooms on the Tardis? I haven’t watched it for ages but I think Nine was when Jack was around for a while, at least enough to emphasise with Yaz’s fear of inevitable abandonment. (Or enough to warn her that yes, it is inevitable, barring death or abandoning the Doctor yourself).

    #71309
    ichabod @ichabod

    @missrory: I miss the snappier conversations and quiet moments of Twelve’s episodes; a lot of the equivalents here are more like characters lecturing each other, and more telling than showing.

    Yes, and yes.  I just don’t like the way Chibnal is writing this.  Everybody keeps explaining stuff to each other, and if there’s a rhythm to the scenes, I’m not getting it.  I think maybe he’s writing such shallow characters because he thinks that’s how you appeal to youngsters?  Maybe he’s right; I haven’t been a kid for really long time, and my new great-granddaughter is too young to discuss it with.  The upshot is that I was bored, finally turned it off and had a nap instead, and can barely remember any of it today.  I agree that the little scene between Jack and Yaz discussing traveling with the Doctor was effective; maybe that’s what I’m missing: a sense of (of all things!) Time.  A sense of past events that knit people together via shared experience, including emotional experience.

    I’ll check in for the next season, but I admit that my hopes are not high.  I wanted a female Doctor, but so far I’ve seen very little to persuade me that Chibnal can write her and her stories well — with wit, flair, verve, and heart.

    Well, horses for courses, I guess.

    #71312
    nerys @nerys

    @missrori @ichabod I agree with both you about the “too much explaining” going on in Chibnall’s dialogue. Yes, the Doctor has always been wordy, but it wasn’t always to explain each and every thing. I sense a lack of connective tissue in the writing. Which, given Seasons 1 and 3 of Broadchurch, surprises me. Clearly Chibnall is capable of writing dialogue that doesn’t whack us over the head with THE POINT. But, in my opinion, he keeps falling short with Doctor Who. I keep hoping, and there are moments that rise to the occasion and deliver emotional punch (the conversation between Jack and Yaz being one of them), but it’s not sustained throughout an entire episode.

    #71314
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    We see the Dalek from Resolution being driven away, there is a stop at the side of the road, the truck is driven away, there is huddled discussion between Robertson and the scientist, there is a demonstration of the Dalek to the corrupt politician…

    Yup. It was a long slow burn of a set up. That is, the plot proceeded methodically towards the explosive finale – slow burns are a normal film technique and as you say, Chibnall uses them in his other work.

    So. We see the Dalek from Resolution being driven away, the brief dialogue between driver and supervisor having established that even the burnt out shell is still considered highly dangerous. It also establishes that the driver has a sick mum, a weakness for tea and permission to stop.

    Why the tea? Well, it establishes that the driver was doing nothing wrong. Nice bloke with sick mother. It also establishes that CCHQ knows this is a potentially dangerous load but do not realise somebody wants to steal it. This is important.

    There is a stop at the side of the road and the driver is poisoned. Again, why the tea? Well, because we were in MI6 a few episodes ago and nobody even mentioned to the Doctor that there was a missing Dalek casing. Which means the writer has to pick a hijacking method which doesn’t allow the driver to call for help, plus a bit of backstory which explains both why he’d stop and why CCHQ might think he’d possibly had a nervous breakdown and become a missing person rather than a crime victim. They’re not putting out an all points bulletin for a stolen Dalek while the Doctor is working with MI6, they’re thinking that the Dalek casing is on a junk pile somewhere or possibly still inside an abandoned container. Later they realise it got sold to Robertson.

    The tea-poisoning also re-establishes Robertson as an utterly ruthless piece of work, quite willing to murder people to make a profit. Leo is also established as over-enthusiastic and willing to turn a blind eye to underhand methods of getting hold of tech. This fits in with his later willingness to incinerate something alive – very charming person, our Leo, but he really wasn’t very nice.

    Finally, the Dalek casings get demonstrated, which establishes that Robertson and Leo (and the corrupt politician) are not planning on establishing a Robocop style reign of terror. The security drones they plan are armed with CS gas and water-cannon, not death rays. Again, this is why nobody bothered to mention the missing Dalek to the Doctor, or her known companions. Its theft has become an embarrassment rather than (they thought) a danger.

    Chibnall actually showed us a lot without telling us. Yes, it was slower pacing than we’re used to. Is he as good as Moffat and RTD? No. Is he a perfectly good producer of Doctor Who? Yes. Is his Doctor Who currently aimed at a slightly younger age group than we’ve become used to? Yes.

    By the way, I really doubt that Chibnall is completely unaware of Robocop; his MA is in Theatre and Film and he’s displayed a consistent interest in writing fantasy and SF for TV.

    #71315
    nerys @nerys

    @bluesqueakpip Thank you for that excellent analysis. It arms me with a lot more context for a second (and hopefully more appreciative) viewing.

    Question: Did I hear correctly that the security official, who eventually became leader of her party and prime minister, was called Secretary? Is that correct, in the UK? I would have thought she’d be called Minister. Secretary is more of a U.S. term (as in, Secretary of Homeland Security).

    #71316
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @nerys
    Glad it was helpful.

    UK senior politicians are called ‘Secretary of State for xxx’ just as in the U.S. The terms date from the same period. However, the UK has a practice of calling any Secretary of State who is also in the Cabinet ‘Minister’.

    So, unlike the US, ‘Secretary’ is often a signal that you aren’t in one of the really important government posts. (The exceptions are Home Secretary and Foreign Secretary which are Great Offices of State – but you’d always call them ‘Home Secretary/Foreign Secretary’ to make it clear they are Very Important Secretaries.)

    #71318
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @nerys the only thing that got me was the glimpse of a news item that I think said she had just been ‘elected party leader and Prime Minister’ which just feels odd. The Conservative party vote on their leadership (sometimes) but not at the same time as a general election, and no one is strictly ‘elected’ Prime Minister.

    #71319
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @nerys

    As @arbutus reminded me, a good commercial-free option is to purchase it on iTunes for $4. It is there for repeated viewings, and it is mercifully ad-free (and I agree with you, the intrusive commercial breaks are just the worst).

     

    #71320
    nerys @nerys

    @bluesqueakpip @miapatrick Thank you for that clarification. I’m from the States, but live in Canada, which has a parliamentary system similar to the UK’s. The “secretary” designation raised eyebrows for both me and my Canadian husband.

    @blenkinsopthebrave I may have to bite the bullet and go the purchase route. Or be prepared to be patient through the interminable waiting period, till the uninterrupted version finally lands in my cable streaming service.

    #71321
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @bluesqueakpip Thanks for the detailed summary, and agree–yes it is effective–if it was, let’s say, the opening episode of a three or four part miniseries that was done as a dark story of corrupt business and corrupt government conspiring together to create a dystopian future. Sounds like just the type of thing Chibnall could do well–if it was paced out over three or four episodes.

    Anyway, from what I am reading on the dark corners of the web (ie, The Daily Mirror), there may be changes afoot…

    But just to reiterate, your summary and explanation of how the story was advanced was really very good. Thanks.

    #71322
    TranslatorCircuit @translatorcircuit

    I’ve just read all your posts after waiting some time for my original post to reappear.

    Of course, there are always things that happen which you’re not supposed to notice. I wonder what the neighbours thought when a new house (the spare TARDIS in disguise) suddenly appeared right next to theirs all of a sudden?

     

    I also seem to remember something about Captain Jack shooting Dalek creatures with a gun, but then suddenly not shooting them anymore. Did he run out of ammunition?

     

    The two human refugees just settled on Earth in the 21st Century and that was the end of their stories, apart from where they got the necessary ID.

     

    Of course, a TARDIS is a sentient being, but that simply doesn’t matter in this case, because there was no other way to get rid of all those Daleks!

     

    #71325
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Well I think I may have been a little hasty with my initial and admittedly knee jerk reaction to the episode, it was  overall enjoyable. I still feel more could have been made of the Doctors escape, but I now feel that Chibnal was trying to cram too much into one episode admittedly a longer episode. He’s 1. trying to explain how the Doctor gets out of prison, 2. Rebuilding the Doctors sense of self after the events of the last series finale 3. Doing an exit story for Ryan and Graham and all the while building it into one integrated episode. I wonder if it would have been better  as a 2 part Xmas and new year special as with Tennant’s departure. This is probably a comment fuelled by hindsight of the current world situation as I believe the special was essentially filming wise  finished before COVID  reared it’s ugly head and that is what has almost certainly pushed the main series release  to the autumn instead of what would probably been early this year due to the filming shutdown due to COVID. A two episode Xmas/new year special would have given Chibnal more scope to explore the different aspect that were being covered (this could also just be greed on my part😝).

    #71326
    Annabel james @annabeljames

    Contact him for a solution to relationship/marriage problem {{Robinsonbuckler11@ gmail}} com_______________________🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

    I am Glad to have my husband back, ………………

     

    #71327
    Annabel james @annabeljames

    Contact him for a solution to relationship/marriage problem {{Robinsonbuckler11@ gmail}} com_______________________🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

    I am Glad to have my husband back, ………………

     

    #71328
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @craig is the above Annabel James a sneaky a sneaky spammer

     

    #71336
    peladon1972 @peladon1972

    @bluesqueakpip. Could not agree more about Gallifrey being destroyed. Also find it difficult to accept that the doctor is not a timelord/lady of Gallifrey who seems to be this immortal being from another dimension/universe. Bit of a origin story remake that seems to change the last 56 years or so of doctor who.  Don’t like the idea however it was a good story though.

    #71337
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @bluesqueakpip there has always been hints that the Doctor is a timelord like no other even in the BG era. This seems to be  more so in so in the Cartmel Plan period and certainly in the unfortunately shortened McCoy tenure and also in the officially sanctioned books of the gap years also his knowledge of and association with major Celestial beings like the White and Black Gardians. Now  I’m not saying that  this was always supposed to be a secret part of the doctors history, but given the mystery of the Doctor in the past and the way the Doctor almost has seemed to go beyond timelord norm in his/her actions I wonder if this is where Chibnal has got his ideas for the timeless child thread. I’ve not always been happy with how Chibbers has taken the Doctor the past 2 seasons but that is part and parcel  of any long running series who’s director/producer/cast periodically changes there will be time some of us don’t like the changes all I can say is in the main I have always enjoyed the show with only a few disappointments. Personally I was quite thrilled with the idea that the Doctor is actually some kind of primal or Uber timelord if you will it almost gives him/her a moral high ground given the actions of some of the timelords in the past, also it crossed my mind what if it also turns out the Master ends up also being the the same as the Doctor but being his/her antithesis. It seems odd that both the Doctor and the Master have “Named” themselves with a descriptive rather than a name like most other Timelord’s.

    #71368
    nerys @nerys

    @devilishrobby I agree with you that this would have worked much better as a two-part special. Too much was shoehorned into one episode, which resulted in a rather incoherent narrative. I wonder why it was not done as a two-parter. Maybe that was the original idea, and the BBC wouldn’t roll with it? I still haven’t done a second viewing. I have Monday off, so I will watch it then.

    #71372
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @nerys

    If as I suspect the original pre-COVID plan was for the next series was to start on the back of the special like last season, they possibly felt a two parter was not necessarily needed. Now given the gap being forced on them due to suspension in production due to the COVID lockdowns in retrospective hindsight a two parter would have been ideal but they probably didn’t have enough in the can material to do that. My understanding is that all filming for the Revolution was completed before the 1st lockdown occurred. Still even so I think there would still have been an argument for them to have done it as a 2 parter for as you said it’s been left that they have an episode where parts feel a bit rushed and overly compressed. Given the way the last series ended with the Doctor’s incarceration  an explanation of why the Doctor was being jailed and more detail on escape would have been nice (hell it could have been an episode in itself) for example how did Capt. Jack know where the Doctor was in the first place for example. Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed the Special it’s just that I feel it could have been better.

    #71378
    nerys @nerys

    @devilishrobby I agree, it could have been better.

    Having said that, I finally got around to a second viewing yesterday, and I will admit that my opinion of it improved. One of the things that bugged me first time around was what seemed like an interminable wait to finally get to the Doctor and her companions. All that buildup to what the bad guys/gal were doing seemed to take forever. I didn’t even recall that the very first scene was from a previous episode. So it took me a long time to realize that this was a continuation of Season 11’s “Resolution” holiday special.

    So, once I knew all of that, and wasn’t trying to get my bearings as we went along, I could appreciate the episode more for what it did offer (rather than what I felt was lacking). The best scenes were the personal ones. They really felt personal to me, not there simply to move things along. And the goodbye from Ryan and Graham didn’t feel as tacked on as it did on first viewing.

    Jack was still a highlight … as always! And Whittaker’s Doctor continues to gain ground with me. I think her musings over her identity were not to answer questions; those were already answered by the Master. But her familiarity with her “self” is knocked completely off its foundation. She had to get herself back to that realization that, no matter what her past is, or where she really comes from, she is still the Doctor.

    Can someone remind me: Where did the extra TARDIS come from? I know it featured in the season finale, but for the life of me I can’t remember the details. “The Timeless Children” may be due for a rewatch, too!

    #71379
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @nerys

    the extra tardis was from the destroyed Gallifrey the Doctor sent the fam and co to Earths 21st century towards the end of the season finale being a fully functional Tardis it has the functioning Chameleon Circuit hence its masquerading as a suburban house . I’m not sure if it’s supposed to be a Battle Tardis and hence the Doc’s ability to collapse it or if this is a fail safe option of all Tardises .  To me it would make more sense if this is a Battle Tardis otherwise why haven’t we seen or heard of this before.

    #71380
    nerys @nerys

    @devilishrobby Thank you! I guess I will have to rely on info from the kind posters here. I tried logging in online to my streaming service and watching the season finale. The episodes all show up, but when I try clicking on it, there’s no play arrow. Rather frustrating! And all that’s available via my cable box is “Revolution of the Daleks” (it used to be that all the post-gap seasons were available). I wonder if this is due to licensing restrictions from the BBC?

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