The Eaters of Light

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  • #59174
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    The Eaters of Light -Doctor Who

    Tonight we go full-on Scottish. This is a cause for celebration – not the Scottishness, but because it sees the return of Scottish writer Rona Munro to Doctor Who. She wrote the last ever story of BG (before gap) Doctor Who, “Survival”. This new episode makes her the only writer to have written for both BG and AG (after gap) Who.

    It’s directed by Charles Palmer who also helmed “Oxygen” this year, plus “Smith and Jones”, “The Shakespeare Code” and the “Family of Blood” two-parter in the past, all of which were quality.

    It’s based on one of the most enduring legends of Roman Britain, the disappearance of the Ninth Legion. Five thousand of Rome’s finest soldiers were lost in the swirling mists of Caledonia, as they marched north to put down a rebellion.

    A hunt for the lost Legion leads the Doctor, Bill and Nardole into the middle of an ancient battle that could cast humanity into the dark forever. It’s another quality episode that once again takes its time, and there’s some good Scottish jokes, which is fine by me.

    #59180
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Reckon the 9th were done for because of Skarosian radiation…….

    movie

    #59184
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Or perhaps they were killed in the War Games…

    war

    #59186
    Nick @nick

    @wolfweed

    ūüôā

     

    #59191

    That was a hoot.

    And also, quality lampshading about lip sync.

    #59192
    Nick @nick

    That was excellent and great fun to watch. The monster felt like a riff on the Moorwen from Outlander (2008 film) although it was none the worst for that. The Missy scenes are the end were excellent. I’ll avoid speculating on trailer for next week here as this is clearly spoilerish.

    #59193
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    And here is the aftershow. I’ve watched it and no spoilers for future episodes.

    #59194
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @nick and the 2008 Outlander was loosely based on the ¬†Norse Beowulf story which was my first comparison. Like you I also liked the Missy interaction at the end but I got the definite feeling that the Doctor isn’t ¬†entirely convinced of Missy’s ¬†reformation.

     

    #59195
    Nick @nick

    @devilishrobby

    Oh yes. I was about to specify that I particularly meant the design of the monster as I could see someone pointing out the concept of the monster was quite different !

    On Missy, he struggle between the Doctor’s hope and his experience/knowledge was poignant. I’m tending to believe Missy is for real right now :). I suppose I’m hoping for a proper reconciliation next week.

    #59196
    Nick @nick

    @devilishrobby

    I cant edit, but I didnt know that it was based on Beowulf in particular. I missed the  ?

    #59199
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    There are definite comparisons with this and “Survival”. In “Survival” there was a (slightly dodgy looking) black cat watching over the action. In this there was a much better CGI black crow.

    And in “Survival” Rona Munro had wanted a hint that Ace and one of the female Cheetah people were attracted to each other, which was ruined by the costume/make-up. I’ll leave it up to you to decide if there was a little bit more effective female attraction this time.

    And of course, in “Survival”, the Doctor and the Master helped each other out.

    #59201
    Nick @nick

    @craig

    Its a long time since I last saw Survival. I have a lingering impression the Black Cat was linked to the Master ? I recall Ace’s attraction to the Cheetah people quite clearly, although I cant remember to which one in particular (although I’m sure it was towards one person in particular). I thought it was also partly for the sense of longing to belong to the tribe as well.

    Off to rewatch it (if I can).

    #59202
    toinfinityandbepond @toinfinityandbepond

    Romans in the gloamin on the bonny banks o’ clyde

    Romans in the gloamin’ with my lassie by my side
    When the sun has gone to rest
    That’s the time we love the best
    Ach, it’s lovely roamin’ in the gloamin’

    #59203

    Of course, had they really been trying they would have included a sight gag with a three-eyed crow.

    But I did rather admire the Just So… version of how the crow got its call.

    So Missy and the Doctor becoming friends means tragedy, then.

    #59206
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Where to begin?

    The Devil’s Cairn is like Tara in Ireland…

    Music inside a hill:¬†There are many Scottish legends about a¬†‘Phantom Piper’ (where Jamie got the notion in ‘The Moonbase)…

    The Doctor has lived, farmed, juggled & been a 2nd class vestal virgin in Roman Britain.

    Bill looks for a Roman but gets a Pict! (Or Proto-Pict as Rona Munro has called them in an article)…

    Bill falls for a 2nd week in a row…

    Sounds like the crow says ‘Dork Doctor’. Perhaps it’s sulking massively?

    Stone cairns as the door between worlds (or betwixt this life &¬†the next¬†in ‘reality’)…

    Sunlight deficiency = ‘Death by Scotland’… (The country of ‘Scotland’ won’t exist for another 600 years)

    Such Pictish stone fish carvings are real, such as this one at Kintore, Aberdeenshire.

    kintore stone

    (Big) Bad Wolf (of a monster)…

    The Dr goes all Scottish on a (Proto) Pict!

    The Picts also had slaves, at least by the time of Christianity…

    Crow now sounds like it’s saying ‘Rockstar’ (I know – It’s ‘monster’)

    Big knife threat no. 1

    Lots of beasts swimming like the old BBC hippo ident…

    Temporal rift is like Fairyland (In folk tales, if people spent too long away there, they would crumble to dust on return)…

    ‘We’re all in this together’ was the catchphrase of former PM, David Cameron…

    The corpses are a bit like Bog People (Good-O!)…

    5000 soldiers to kill a bunch of farmers (sounds fair)…

    Venting a what gush?

    Face your beast… (Very dragony it is too, not much like the Pictish beast seen on stones all over Scotland)

    beast

    Big knife threat no.2

    Turns out they’re light-eating locusts…

    ‘Name a cow after me…’

    Brave

    ‘I know 10% of your dark secrets…’

    Music transcends time (or can it just be heard from inside the TARDIS?)

    Missy is in the TARDIS (A la Shalka)

    Friends again?! (Hope’s hard to resist)

    Did you know? – The Eaters of Light fact file

    #59209
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    I forgot to say:

    The Rose Quartz Geode gizmos¬†are reminiscent of the mirror symbol which usually accompanies a comb symbol on many Pictish stones….

    mirror

    #59211
    Nick @nick

    @wolfweed

    The picture of the pictish monster carving reminds me of Viking ones. ūüôā Co-incidence or some cultural cross fertilization.

    #59212
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    ‘I’ll put your name in the air.’

    In Celtic belief, birds are the messengers of the Otherworld.¬†They can¬†represent prophetic knowledge or bloodshed. The behaviour & ¬†flight pattern of birds could be used to predict the future…

    crow

    @nick The Vikings & others had similar dragony designs because they’re all from the same ‘Celtic’ era. The Pictish beast is unique to Scotland though. Other symbols¬†similar to¬†the (class 1) Pictish stones¬†could once¬†be found elsewhere, like in the Greek islands; and the menhirs in the Marne valley, France)…

    #59221
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    #59224
    GlasgowBoy @glasgowboy

    I thought this started off very well but then went a bit twee. Definite echoes of the film ‘Outlander’. Didn’t really get the whole teenager survivor bit. Also, the beast kills thousands of Roman soldiers but is defeated by a bunch of kids in a hut? All a bit Scooby Doo. And the Romans just happen to have a secret tunnel in o the Picts hut? Bill falls down hole and lands in front of one of the main protagonists again

    Still have a nagging feeling that Bill is a bit underwhelming. Well, not really underwhelming but nothing like the exceptional individual the Doctor tells us she is.  Nardol gets better every week.

    Re Missy- how’s this for a bonkers theory? Missy has been slowly killing The Doctor all along ¬†She kills him and he “goes out fighting” . Then she kills herself and regenerates into The Master – this way she is not ‘biologically locked out’ of The Tardis. Master steals Tardis.

     

    #59227
    MissRori @missrori

    @pedant ¬†Poor Doctor’s headed for tragedy. ¬†Hope is a terrible thing on the scaffold, and he’ll be on it soon. ¬†Be brave, be brave! ¬†ūüėČ

    This was a lovely episode, probably the best overall since “Extremis” wrapped up the season’s first half. ¬†And the ending is a nice lead into next week’s vale of sorrows.

    #59233
    Redlemons @redlemons

    HI sorry I moved and am now playing catch up. So I really enjoyed this episode except why now do we understand Latin? When before we did not. Does the doctor turn on and off his translater?  I also wandered why he could  not just close the temporal rift but then there would be survivors of the ninth. What happens when all those that went through the rift die, do the eaters of light come back? Loved that Nardo was in pajamas and robe. Cute pop corn screen but obvious. All in all enjoying this season.

    #59235
    thane15 @thane15

    @redlemons

    The Tardis has always been able to translate other languages and the ‘field’ means the ‘companions’ speak the language of the people of that particular planet. It’s all quite ‘new’ in this season where many of the issues we’ve enc0untered before are written a-fresh. I recall in The Roman episode (starring Capaldi as the marble worker) with Tennant as Doctor and Donna,¬†his assistant discussing this too: Donna would play around with ‘Latin’ and the ordinary people of the time couldn’t understand her!

    As for the Eaters of Light -that’s a good question and needs me to have another re-watch. ūüôā

    @glasgowboy¬† That’s a great Bonker’s theory!

    I think you can’t have another “main protagonist”?¬† The protagonist is the Doctor and the antagonist is the Eater of Light? I think once out of the portal they eat the light and can kill scores of infantry-men. Interesting that this was a ‘group’ holding the “pass” near a “tide of enemies” like¬† Thermopylae

    @wolfweed I love your comments and also your pictish symbology. Eye -opening. Something is definitely going on with Missy but I’m rather fond of her!

    Kindest,

    Puro

    #59238
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Scotland’s saviour…

     vit d

     

    #59239
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Viewers outside the UK weren’t privy to this little gem…

    #59240
    Nick @nick

    @wolfweed

    I’ve had an interesting morning trying to gain a superficial overview of the known history of Roman’s in Scotland and the Scottish tribes. A confusing picture it certainly is.

    #59244
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @nick¬† The Romans left loads of primary evidence (Such as¬†letters saying ‘Thanks for the socks.’). The Picts remain a bit of an enigma…

    #59247
    RorySmith @rorysmith

    I enjoyed this one a lot! Everything from Bill figuring out the translation abilities of the Tardis to inter dimensional riffs with monsters. Oh and Brian Vernel is back after being eaten on Han Solo’s cargo ship. He’d make a good Doctor. Missy is really twisting the mind of us old whovians though. We have seen thr great lengths the Master has gone to really undermine the Doctor. Personally as I have said before, I’m actually tired of the same old Sherlock/Moriarty over and over. It’s time to move on and give us a new villain. Rassilon is out there and maybe he can step it up a notch and kill the Master for good then become the true dark to the Doctor’s light.

    #59249
    Nick @nick

    @wolfweed

    Yes indeed. There’s more evidence for Roman military activity in Scotland than anywhere else (and there are lots of it !). However, there seems to be little evidence regarding how much of Scotland was occupied between the first invasion in 84AD and the building of Hadrian’s Wall in 122. The second invasion took place in 140AD ish.¬† That didnt last long either.

    Its not clear when the various eastern scottish tribes morphed into the Picts. I believe they left no written history and few historical descriptions have survived from Roman times, although there is no doubt they were related to the same Celtic tribes in England and wales, before the Roman invasion. It’s very fascinating period historically.

    #59262
    Arbutus @arbutus

    This has to be my favourite of the series. The setting, the setup, the soundtrack, the return of the “uniting against a common enemy” theme. And then the last ten minutes nailed it for me. I’ll have to watch it again before I can be more coherent, but I loved this.

    #59267
    soundworld @soundworld

    Well, that was fun.  The pacing felt really good Рit seemed like a longer than normal episode, but in a good way, not rushing to solve everything in the final minutes.

    As a Scottish person, I loved the jokes ‘Death by Scotland’ especially.¬† Actually, we’ve just had two whole days of lovely warm sun ūüôā it only rained for a short while each day.

    There were several nods to traditional tales, the piper as @wolfweed observed, also the idea found in many stories that time passes differently inside the cairns (in the stories the different passage of time usually refers to fairy hills, which aren’t necessarily the same as stone cairns although sometimes they do coincide).¬† In legend, people enter the hill through a secret door (a portal), sometime after hearing music and the sounds of dancing from inside the hill, they spend one night there, and on coming out discover that many days, or even many years, sometimes entire ages, have passed in the outside wold.¬† Portals to another dimension…

    I loved the crows! Corvids are a favourite of mine in any case, with their intelligence and humour (Jackdaws nest in all the chimneys down my street – constantly chatting away, and they are so funny in how they act.¬† Mostly they say ‘Jack!’ but maybe its an invitation to ‘Chat!?’), then we have Odin’s (and Poe’s) talking Ravens – they can mimic human speech very well –

    (talking Raven) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfsnHVaScjg

    What happened to the missing 9th legion?¬† Experts continue to argue – there is very little evidence on the ground or records.¬† I need to rewatch – did the episode include the lines <span lang=”EN-GB”>‚Äėthey make a desert and they call it peace‚Äô –¬† from a speech by the Pictish leader Calgacus before the battle of Mons Graupius, recorded by the Roman historian Tacitus (the battle supposedly took place in Aberdeenshire, although the site has not been identified, 5000 Romans of the 9th Legion defeated an army of 30,000 Picts – according to the Romans.¬† It was on their journey back south from this battle that the 9th seems to have disappeared.)</span>

    The Picts – very little is known about them (referred to in some histories as ‘The problem of the Picts’) – seem to be the continuation of various Iron Age tribes, Celtic in origin.¬† They later merged with the tribe of Scots (who, confusingly, came from Ireland…) to form the start of the Scottish Kingdom.¬†¬†¬† The symbol stones are their legacy.¬† This one, now kept in the Rosemarkie museum, seems particularly apt for the episode, perhaps showing a monster devouring a man… (I like the wolf at the bottom too – with his lips curved… )

    Pictish stone

    Of all the Cairns in Scotland, the masterpiece has to be Maeshowe in Orkney, with its tunnel and chamber aligned to the setting sun at the midwinter solstice – the episode certainly paid homage to the amazing lighting effects created in these places.

    Maeshowe, Orkney

    Maeshowe, Orkney – the tunnel formed from single massive slabs, engineered with precision.
    https://www.visitorkney.com/things/history/maeshowe

    Reading University have done research into various acoustic phenomena in cairns in the UK (thinking of the ‘music inside the stones’.¬† At Camster, in the far North of Scotland (and its a lonely place, the last time I crawled into its chamber on hands and knees as the tunnel is rather low, it really spooked me, something about the atmosphere… I’d been before and found it OK, but I ain’t going back!) = there are two cairns a few hundred yards apart.¬† The research showed that if somebody played a drum inside cairn A, it couldn’t be heard outside, but if somebody was in the chamber of cairn B, the drumming could be heard, arising out of the ground.

    Camster cairn

    My apologies for such a long post – I realise I’m slightly off-doctor-topic, but its all fascinating background stuff that they incorporated into the episode.¬† I loved it.

    #59268
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @soundworld  Great post. Particularly interested by your Camster tale. Enlightening!

    The Scottish contingent is strong!

    The country is steeped in ancient historical sites. Glad that Rona Munro utilised these elements for her story.

    Archaeological experts will no doubt be getting their knickers in a twist about all the inaccuracies (like placing cairns, tumuli & standing stones all right next to each other – 2 out of 3 = possible, 3 out of 3 = unlikely?). [It is a dramatic science-fiction, though]…

    Picts were matrilinear, so a female leader makes plenty of sense.

    #59269
    soundworld @soundworld

    @wolfweed I always view these inaccuracies as though they were elements in a story told down through the ages, various bits get mangled or re-imagined or joined with other bits – but they’re still there, forming the story.¬† As ever, if we can accept light-eating monsters from another dimension, then lets not worry overly about the local details!

    Yes, that day at Camster was very weird, such intense strong sensations.¬† I’ve been in many cairns and i’m not worried by the claustrophobia element, so it wasn’t that…

    #59270
    Nick @nick

    @soundworld

    Maes Howe is a fantastic place to visit. What makes it even better, is the walk down the road past the Stones of Stennes, across the Ness of Brodgar to the Ring of Brodgar; the view across the lochs to the low hills that surround the site (there are various possible landscape alignments as well if (!) I remember correctly). Its then a short drive to Skara Brae, which is one of the oldest dwellings sites in Northern Europe at about 5,000 years old.

    I’ve visited twice, but that before the recent excavations on the Ness itself. If current theories pan out at the completion of the excavation (several years in future unfortunately) then the Ness area may represent the cultural heart of Neolithic ‘religion’ in the British Isles.

    #59271
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Well, an enjoyable tale, perhaps a bit a bit slight, but with some good moments. What I especially liked about it was that it really did have an old Who feel about it. The whole construction of the story, where the Doctor casually lets Bill go wandering off in 2nd century Scotland by herself while he tries to prove his own theory is something that had a 1st Doctor feel to it. And the resolution where the Doctor is forced to admit he is wrong and has to be rescued from the collapsing cairn by his companions was old Who as well.

    @soundworld. I loved your post. Gave me an expanded appreciation of the episode.

     

     

    #59272
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    The other point I would make about this episode is that the pattern that some have seen in this series of monsters that aren’t really monsters deep down does not seem to apply in this story. The Eaters of the Light are just there to consume everything in their path, it would seem.

    #59273
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Oh, and a third reflection would be about the Doctor offering to sacrifice himself to save humanity felt, this time, a bit gratuitous; almost as if he was doing it to avoid something else. That point came through when Bill had to point out to him that this was not his call, it was something the Picts and the Romans had a right to do. Could this tie into the Doctor’s “fall”?

    Indeed, “avoiding something else” is quite clear in this episode. He keeps coming up with excuses to avoid guarding the vault, a responsibility that both Bill and Nardole have to repeatedly remind him of. When Missy turns up at the end, you tend to side with Nardole and understand his outrage. The Doctor is avoiding something…

    #59279
    Missy @missy

    I haven’t read the other posts as yet, But I’ll post mine.

    I loved it!

    The joining of two bitter enemies to fight a worse enemy. Bill’s part in negotiations. The Doctor showing them how to vanquish the monster and not being allowed to do it for them – looking very tired. Nadole’s seeming lack of interest in finding Bill. ¬†And ¬†the pi√®ce de r√©sistancehe? ¬†¬†The crows call, explained as the young woman’s name – brilliant!

    Missy’s tears, bothered me a bit. She knows something, and it’s either about her changing back, or what is going to happen to the Doctor. ¬†Interesting how he backed off slightly when Missy went to take his hands, then taking them anyway. There was a hell of a lot going on in this episode, but as I’ve only seen it once, I’ve probably missed important bits.

    Missy

    P.S. Of course! it was a proper Scottish affair wasn’t it.

    #59280
    ichabod @ichabod

    @arbutus ¬†@soundworld and everybody else who loved this — I loved it too! ¬†It seemed to rip right along, was full of good jokes, and ended with a beautiful set-up for the end of this series — the idea of the Doctor being a tad irresponsible (as well as off-handedly heroic, of course) in signing up for who knows how long as the guardian here, and having it pointed out that this isn’t his fight; he has monsters of his own to face. ¬† ¬†@blenkinsopthebrave ¬†Yeah, a little avoidance there … maybe of acknowledging that the Mastress is *never* going to be truly good, and it’s his job to finish her evil for good (if he can).

    None of this felt “heavy handed” to me, maybe because the whole episode has this robust plain-ness and frankness about it. ¬†Scottish-ness maybe?

    I wish they’d had a moment to have the “Roman” lads say where they’d come from, emphasizing how very very far from homes they’d never see again some of them would have been. ¬†Or was it too early in the Empire’s history for troops to be drawn from all over the mediterranean and Europe? ¬†Not sure whether it was another military invention of the Romans or not, but they were well-known for taking recruits (and maybe conscripts?) from one part of the Empire and posting them well away, to reduce the chances of too much sympathy with rebellious locals. ¬†If you survived your stint in the legions, your reward was Roman citizenship, I believe. ¬†Race and religion didn’t seem to enter into it at all. ¬†Anyway, knowing how far some had come would have underlined the reasons for their “cowardice”.

    Birds — interesting. ¬†Loved the crows — maybe survivors from the 9th legion buried or hid their Eagle symbol to keep the locals from co-opting it to their own culture?

    @soundworld ¬†Thanks for the photos — I think that one thing I’d really like to do in the next couple of years is take one of those trips around the British Isles visiting ancient monuments and ruins. ¬†“Death by Scotland” does sound a bit rough, but what with Global Warming — oops — “Climate Change” I mean — it might not be that bad. ¬†I know when I went on a 2-week archaeological dig in SW Ireland on summer, the sun baked us all like turkeys . . .

    #59281
    CountScarlioni @countscarlioni

    Another fine episode, & especially good use of landscape.

    The Doctor is quite testy by this point and not his usual self. He struck me as harsh towards the Picts (“embryos”), and acted in a way that went beyond his usual lack of social skills and indicated that he’s getting a bit fed-up dealing with the “children.” The key point I thought came from Bill when she realised that everybody must seem like a child to the Doctor. Well, not everybody, and so no wonder he’s yearning for more `grown-up’ conversations with Missy.

    PC delivered a very powerful sense of desperate hope in the final scene was Missy. She may truly regret her earlier actions and likely did a good job tuning the engines, but is surely (?) going to revert to type. Missy’s tears were perhaps tears of remorse, but I suspect they were more likely tears of sadness because she knows she has no choice and her true nature will out.

    I also agree with @missy above that at times the Doctor looked very tired too. He’s changed physically and mentally.

    @soundworld ¬†Thanks so much for the post! I’d come across writings on sounds of Stonehenge but had no idea of other examples.

    In case anyone is interested in sounds of Stonehenge, http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/stonehenge/stonehenge_sounds/index.php

     

    #59283
    soundworld @soundworld

    @countscarlioni and others

    Here’s the guy who does the archao-acoustic research ‘This project explores the role of sound in the experience of Neolithic sites and landscapes’

    http://www.aaronwatson.co.uk/acoustics-intro/

    @ichabod It happens! Its just hard to predict when it will happen… September is usually the best most wonderful month.¬† With climate change, who knows – its already making our summers wetter.¬† Who nose?¬† It’ll be wonderful anyway.¬† I went around Orkney one March in a howling minus 10 arctic wind, snowdrifts everywhere, it was a tad bracing but the light was magnificent…

    #59286
    geoffers @geoffers

    @soundworld

    5000 Romans of the 9th Legion defeated an army of 30,000 Picts ‚Äď according to the Romans.¬† It was on their journey back south from this battle that the 9th seems to have disappeared.

    when i read this, my gut reaction was “simple propaganda.” most likely the picts defeated the romans, but the leaders back home couldn’t report that, so the “roman victors” mysteriously disappeared on the way back…

    as for the episode, i was just a bit underwhelmed. i think it has mostly to do with the younger supporting cast. i’m not a fan of child actors, and these teen-aged actors didn’t quite convince me, either. maybe it’ll be better on re-watch, later… but the bits with the core actors were top notch, of course.

    ūüôā

    #59288
    janetteB @janetteb

    Finally caught up with Eaters of Light. I missed bits, mostly because I was making custard to go with the home made Jammy Dodgers. Jammy Dodgers dipped in custard is the new Who viewing addiction around here.

    From what I saw a very enjoyable episode but then Romans and Scotland, how could it not be. Once again the clear t theme of the episode was reconciliation of enemies, a theme that has been central throughout this series. More thoughts on that over in the Spoilers thread.

    Loved the crow, some great lines and really looking forward to a re-watch without distractions,

    Cheers

    Janette

    #59291
    janetteB @janetteb

    @wolfweed. As always great images and links. Loved the Vitamin D pic.

    @soundworld You can’t say too much about Scottish history/archaeology. Orkneys are very high on my “to go wish list”. (Every so often I re-watch the Neil Oliver docos on the subject) There are also several stone circles which I have not seen and for family history reasons I am now eager to visit the south west coast, that bit we drove straight past last time we were there. A few years ago I read a fascinating book about the Picts. The theory was that the western Scots were always part of a Scots/Irish kingdom which makes sense given how close the lands are and water was the superhighway of the time whereas the mountains were the real barrier, so there was little communication between East and West.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #59294
    Nick @nick

    @blinkinsopthebrave

    ‚Äúavoiding something else‚ÄĚ

    I can only think that this is his regeneration. It can’t have been Missy as he knew she was in the Tardis

    #59299
    MissRori @missrori

    @nick Yeah, if anything he’s actually moving forward on his relationship with Missy by letting her out of the Vault and onto his TARDIS, and certainly being honest with her about his misgivings. ¬†If anything he was avoiding the matter by keeping her in the Vault, the “safe” but static choice.

    I¬†do put a little stock into the theory that he may be worried his regeneration won’t go off right, if at all (maybe he’s afraid of the Valeyard?) and this is why he’s 1) tutoring Bill in “everything” and 2) trying to see if he can redeem Missy. ¬†So one, the other, or both will be around to pick up where he left off in terms of his virtues and ideals, if he doesn’t make it — or he goes bad and needs to be fought.

    #59308
    ichabod @ichabod

    @blenkinsopthebrave  @countscarlioni  The key point I thought came from Bill when she realised that everybody must seem like a child to the Doctor. Well, not everybody, and so no wonder he’s yearning for more `grown-up’ conversations with Missy.

    Good point — “Grow the Hell up!” was a surprise. ¬†It’s another sign of “wearing thin” — I wonder whether taking on the gatekeeper’s job (for however long before devising a way to shut the gate for good) was almost tempting to him, as a respite from all us “kids” and our mistakes and foolishness for a bit . . . Who knows better than the Doctor how long and arduous the a sapient species’ road can be toward maturity? ¬†But I think his future is on his mind.

    @missrori ¬†Yes, he did say he might have skewed his future regenerations badly by using some of that energy to ameliorate his blindness; and then he blew off a blast of it when Bill shot him, which looked like a weird and terrible joke at the time, but might also have been a way of demonstrating to her something that he knows is coming but that she, apparently, still knows nothing about — ?

    #59314
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    #59317
    geoffers @geoffers

    @blenkinsopthebrave @nick

    ‚Äúavoiding something else‚ÄĚ I can only think that this is his regeneration.

    i had a thought that perhaps he nose about his coming regeneration, because he had a peek into river’s diary? “a thing happened.” and so he’s suffering from existential dread, knowing it’s coming…

    it often seems to me that the doctor has a bit of foreknowledge, not just because he’s clever, but because of the whole timey wimey thing (and the tardis). but the diary is a different beastie, altogether. if it doesn’t come into play before series’ end, i’ll be surprised. it can’t just be left floating about the universe, changing ownership with no explanation, can it?

    then again, there’s the big book in the tardis library that hasn’t been mentioned since it appeared, either…¬† :/

    #59318
    winston @winston

    Hi all ! I am a little late but I watched and I liked!¬† This was a fun history episode with Romans (very modern in their attitudes)¬†and Picts (girl power) ¬†and standing stones ,what more do you need? The guest cast was great as usual and I had no problem with their young ages because I think¬† people grew up and became “adults” a lot younger than we do now. Add to that a low life expectancy and I think we would see more young people than seniors back then.The Doctor¬† and Nardole are my favourite couple , I¬†love¬†¬†the banter.

    I enjoyed  the truth behind the myth and this episode confirmed something I have suspected for awhile, birds do talk if we only listen.I look forward to watching this one again and again.

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