The Pilot
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Dentarthurdent 1 year, 4 months ago.
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16 April 2017 at 20:40 #56288
the Doctor was interested in her because being confused, having questions, LEARNING made her smile. It was that she DIDN’T get it and smiled that made him interested.
That is another, valid way of looking at it, and in the end it amounts to the same thing.
I agree with you, in that increasingly I get the impression that learning and a university education is being seen as just a means to obtain a piece of paper for a material end. For some that was always the case, and for the already wealthy and privileged it could be and still is a step on the way to success in politics or in business, with the opportunity for self-indulgent fun along the way, but it is sad if the concept of learning for its own sake and for the delight of discovery is being lost.
16 April 2017 at 20:46 #56289All I can say is amazing!
Bill is funny and clever and i think she will give the Doctor a run for his money in a similar way that Donna used to.
I was expecting Nardole to get on my nerves but he surprised me with his witty one liners and facial expressions that only Matt Lucas can do to that skill, hopefully he will be just as good for the rest of the season.
The villain was fantastic, scary whilst still keeping a sense of mystery, we don’t really know what it is and it could therefore possibly come back in the future? And of course we can’t forget about that vault…what is in there? and what kind of havoc will it wreak on the universe now that the Doctor has left it unattended?
This for me was exactly what Doctor Who is all about, a brilliant fun adventure with the ability to scare us all silly. Very much reminded me of the old Russell T Davies era and I hope to see more of this!
Now don’t mind me, I’m going to go and re-watch the episode and analyze the hell out of it!
16 April 2017 at 20:53 #56290@joshamus, That vault is a mystery! Is it possible that whatever’s in that vault might need protection from the universe as much as the universe needs protection from it? Or even more so? 😀
16 April 2017 at 20:56 #56291@mudlark Exactly!
Here are two really random thoughts: Why does the voice in the pond sound like Colony Sarff? Why is everything centered around a “pond” again?
Mega random thought: What if Bill is Donna’s daughter (part timelord in the mind possibly) and the promise was to Donna’s Grandpa Wilfred Mott to never erase her memory and to protect her, maybe he actually is her foster dad in that way ? Maybe she’s named for her grandpa? Warned you this thought was “mega random” and all. (;
16 April 2017 at 21:00 #56293The circle can also represent a full circle either for the Doctor or for Steven Moffatt or return to the beginning. That’s why Susan’s portrait would stand on a desk. This portrait of Rembrandt is one of his last if not the last and it’s a coping stone of his life-long series of self-portraits. Rembrand died in 1969 outliving his wife Saskia, his later partner Hendrickje and beloved son Tytus who left a baby daughter, Rembrandt’s granddaughter Titia. Sorry if I’m boring you but that really intrigued me.
16 April 2017 at 21:01 #56294So what does this look like? Heather or something more….cyber?
16 April 2017 at 21:01 #5629516 April 2017 at 21:05 #56296Someone responding to my Facebook comment on an Entertainment Weekly article called this episode “run of the mill” for introducing a companion. Hard to imagine that being someone’s opinion, but there it is. Someday I shall learn to stop responding to such comments.
16 April 2017 at 21:05 #56297The heraldry design is by Matthew Clark.
Rachael Stott is a Dr Who comic artist for Titan.
I’m guessing that the other names on the study windows are other Dr Who alumni ‘getting an Easter egg’.
There’s also, another window (find it in this link:)
16 April 2017 at 21:07 #56298@mersey Yeah, it was an extra random thought…great granddaughter? (; Ha ha, I know, wishful thinking, more than likely she is related to Clara somehow, if anyone.
16 April 2017 at 21:09 #5629916 April 2017 at 21:14 #56300@mersey Your Rembrandt musings are anything but boring, please keep them coming.
@nerys The reviews are always so far off base. It makes you realize how vastly different people are. Seriously, I often find myself wondering if they even watched it they are so far off from my personal feelings on an episode.
16 April 2017 at 21:25 #56301anyone else notice, when Bill made a noise near the vault, Nardel asked the doctor what setting he left the door on, and the Doctor said ‘friends’ or something? i.e. It’s interesting that she could get down there…
plus, I also think he said he liked that she smiled, rather than frowning, when she heard something she didn’t understand. Excellent qualification for a companion.
16 April 2017 at 21:34 #56302Well, I (we) loved this to bits. Bill is brilliant – funny and gorgeous in a non-bland way, something of a Rose vibe, but not just a re-working of any previous companion. OK, she’s an orphan/semi-orphan which is a recurrent theme, but I think of that a bit like the convention in children’s fiction going back to Victorian writers whereby being over-encumbered with loving family gets in the way of bobbying off on adventures on a whim. The companion has to be able to leap into the Tardis, even if they do have some ties and commitments. But I think its more than that – to have experienced loss at a young age makes them more open to making new connections perhaps. Anyway, she is terrific.
@mudlark @kharis I definitely go with the interpretation that Bill’s response to not understanding something isn’t fear or anxiety, it’s a kind of joy that there are things to be learned, understanding to be reached for, and that’s something that marks her out in the Doctor’s eyes.
I *love* the whole physics and poetry thing. And a lot of physicist friends of mine are loving it too.
Watery Heather was genuinely chilling, but with real ambiguity about her/its intentions – I suspect we will learn more.
Oh, how we have missed Who… I still wish PC wasn’t leaving and feel anxious about who will take over the role (as I always do), and unsure about CC but as of now, every reason to feel positive and delighted.
Grauniad has already yielded one ‘Worst Episode Ever’ but overall there’s some love for The Pilot even there.
Allons-y!
16 April 2017 at 21:34 #56303St Luke – Wikipedia states:
‘The Roman Catholic Church and other major denominations venerate him as Saint Luke the Evangelist and as a patron saint of artists, physicians, surgeons, students and butchers…’
16 April 2017 at 21:45 #56304@pedant Excellent observation, especially given that the season finale is to be Cyber-centric.
16 April 2017 at 21:53 #56305It’s funny sometimes I will see an episode and think it’s ho hum. I will then watch the same espisode 2 or 3 years down the road and think it was marvelous. Not sure if it’s cause I missed information the first time or not. Didn’t Martha Jones have a sister? Could this be her niece? Ok maybe not just guessing here.
16 April 2017 at 21:53 #56306Thank you, that’s nice. I think this picture is significant (or maybe not, maybe Rembrandt is Moffat’s favourite painter and he wanted to pay him tribute, it definitely tells something about his excellent taste). But Rembrandt throughout his life painted plenty of self-portraits, as a young man, as a middle-aged man, as an old man, as a rich man, in woman’s dress, in armour, he liked to dress up. But Moffat chose this portrait (probably the most famous) which has those mysterious circles and you’ll find many of them in the episode. Those two in the portrait, in the Tardis (galifreyan alphabet), on the machine, in the bar in Sydney and on the Dalek’s ships (circles in girders).
The bust on the sill was Beethoven, wasn’t it?
16 April 2017 at 21:55 #56307@kharis Actually, the EW article wasn’t a review, but rather got into some spoiler-ish territory about the season finale, which then, predictably enough, led to some “good riddance”-style Facebook comments from some. Those comments were what I was replying to, mentioning, among other things, Capaldi’s acting tour de force in “Heaven Sent,” along with his stellar work in last night’s season premiere. Which then prompted the “run of the mill” comment by someone else. Bleh!
@redlemons I’ve had the same thing happen. Here in Canada, hubby and I were watching the last few episodes of the Doctor Who marathon running up to last night’s season premiere. On first viewing, I loved “Heaven Sent” but was a little underwhelmed by “Hell Bent” (I think because I was expecting the same sort of narrative flow and intensity). But watching it again last night, I felt and appreciated “Hell Bent”‘s emotional resonance. So sometimes it just takes time … and multiple viewings.
16 April 2017 at 22:10 #56308This is the picture but it seems to be altered in the show to make the circles recesses…
Very interesting.
16 April 2017 at 23:10 #56309Anonymous @
@mersey I agree with @kharis, those were very astute observations about the Rembrandt. Well picked indeed.
@missrori -thank you for the inquiry and your best wishes. I appreciate that.
@redlemons -welcome to the Forum. Great that you’ve found PC in this episode more to your taste.
@nerys, oh I know: reviews and articles. We want them and then we want to kill the reviewer and half the commenters. 🙂
@mudlark I recall debates in the early ’90s where I felt I was a lone voice arguing for “knowledge for knowledge sake.” Young Thane15 often wishes that half the members here were his teachers -whether History/English or Maths/Science.
@cathannabel Good to see you survived the annual charitable lecture series
Watery Heather was genuinely chilling, but with real ambiguity about her/its intentions – I suspect we will learn more.
She was chilling, wasn’t she? -just the right smidgelet of terror without the ‘dried up’ walking water terrors of the Waters of Mars. Say that repeatedly. With gin *-_-*
@pedant It does! The y0-y0 part on ‘Its’ head (it resembles one) could be the circular blob on a cyber-head.
Overall, loved Bill’s comment: “you into Sci-fi?” and the ‘longer’ than usual realisation of “bigger on the inside”.. is this kitchen…
Are high cut jeans returning to fashion? Because Bill was sporting quite a pair. And…..exactly what year is it? In fact it’s just occurred to me, it could be….any time-ish. As long as it’s not later than 6 pm 🙂 Didn’t see any ipads/iphones etc (hence the time/decade question).
Puroonherown ((*\*))
16 April 2017 at 23:14 #56310@mercey and @wolfeed Enjoying picking apart his office. The bust is not Beethoven. Maybe Mark Twain? I don’t recognize him?
16 April 2017 at 23:17 #56311Yep, it was pretty great! I especially liked the the slow moving start, that built up tension, and the fact that it was told from Bill’s perspective. That reminded me of An Unearthly Child.
And, as everybody says, what, indeed, is in the vault?
And does the self-portrait of Rembrandt, which as @wolfweed (great to see you again!) points out, is subtly changed to make the circles appear recessed look a bit like the round nodules of the Hartnell Tardis?
16 April 2017 at 23:28 #5631216 April 2017 at 23:49 #56314@wolfweed @mersey @thane15 Found some articles that highlight the similarities between Shakespeare and Rembrandt. A really great quote form one, “Élie Faure, the French art critic and historian, wrote this of Rembrandt and his work: ‘His humanity is truly formidable, it is fatal like lament, love; change continues, indifferent and dramatic, between all that is born and all that dies. He follows our steps to death in the traces of blood which mark them. He does not pity us, he does not comfort us, because he is with us, because he is us.” http://www.rembrandtpainting.net/rembrandt_painting_1626-35.htm
Our tarot card progression theme we figured out in episode one of last season (season 9) turned out to be dead on right until the last card “The World” and now I wonder if we haven’t stumbled on another theme arc in the first episode?
17 April 2017 at 00:01 #56315🙂 🙂 🙂 That was real old-school stuff, I loved it to pieces. The university setting, the relaxed pace, the emphasis on suspense rather than a lot of shouting and shooting. And the best soundtrack I have heard in awhile. I didn’t pick up all the references that others mentioned, but I got some of them. I will pay attention to that aspect when I watch it again. I appreciated the reference to a series arc without it being too heavy-handed, as I’ve always preferred less of an emphasis on the arc.
It reminds me too of a thought I have occasionally had, that I miss the days when we changed companions more frequently, not due to any particular like/dislike, but simply the chance to create a new dynamic, and keep seeing the Doctor through new eyes.
Bill is fantastic, I love the concept of the fry-cook attending lectures, and the Doctor picking her out of the crowd. She’s gutsy without being unbelievable, clever without being annoying. (Did anyone else notice her question about if the Doctor is from another planet, how is it that TARDIS can stand for “time and relative dimension in space”? I did a little fist pump when she came out with that!) I hadn’t been pumped one way or the other about the inclusion of Nardole, but I thought it actually worked very well, to have him as a bit of a bridge between the Doctor, who is even more alien even than your average alien, and the new companion. And he definitely wasn’t overdone on the silly side. (I did love him commenting to the Doctor that “you can be a little silly sometimes”.)
I haven’t read all of the comments yet, but I look forward to doing that, and hearing all of people’s wise and interesting thoughts. Nice to see lots of familiar “faces”!
17 April 2017 at 00:14 #56316@thane
thanks for the welcome. I enjoy reading all these post. Bill’s clothing was the first thing I noticed. Bill said The Doctor had been there 50 years but 50 years starting when? It had to be after Danny and Clara died. I thought they died in 2016… Hum?
17 April 2017 at 00:21 #56317I think Moffat wanted people to spot them. The painting hangs in the background and thin circles as they are in the oryginal could be missed.
@kharis the bust I’ve mentioned has a mane of hair and chubby cheeks. I think it’s Beethoven.
17 April 2017 at 00:40 #5631817 April 2017 at 00:52 #56319Martha had a sister, a brother and a baby nephew, plus a dead cousin who looked just like her. 😉 I don’t think Bill is related; I can’t see the extensive Jones family leaving a relative in foster care.
At the moment I’d say Bill’s backstory simply explains why she’d be willing to leap in the TARDIS. Like Rose, she’s bright but didn’t do well in school. Like Clara, she isn’t going to let life get in the way of her dreams. If she can’t go to university one way, she’ll find another.
The photos on the desk do show that the Doctor’s moving on emotionally. The Smith Doctor was the man who tried to forget; the Capaldi Doctor has become the man who remembers his family. Maybe being forced to forget Clara made him finally realise how precious those memories are?
17 April 2017 at 00:58 #56320@mersey Oh! I didn’t see that one, I will go look. You are probably right because the Doctor had a bust of Beethoven in the Tardis in season 9
17 April 2017 at 02:09 #56321Random thoughts some of you have probably had.
Who’s ship spilled the fluid?
Will smart fluid Heather be an unlikely and predictable deus ex machina ally at some convenient time?
Will Bill’s foster mum ever find true love?
Will Orson Pink ever be explained?
Is Sherlock’s sister in the vault?
17 April 2017 at 02:51 #56322Another random thought – Was the Doctor reflected in 1 of the photos in Bills
photo box? So the Doctor went back in time and made that box of memories for her?
Bill’s step mum looks so familiar to me so could she have been in some past episode?
Sherlock’s sister in the vault! LOL
17 April 2017 at 03:00 #56323@lisa
Yes, the Doctor was reflected in the photo and he had gone back in time to create the box of memories for Bill. And presumably broken into Bill’s and her foster mother’s flat to leave the box.I need to say that if an actual university professor had done anything like that…well, I probably do not need to finish the sentence!
Which, I suppose, just goes to show that life is always better when it’s fictional…
17 April 2017 at 03:19 #56324exactly what year is it? In fact it’s just occurred to me, it could be….any time-ish. As long as it’s not later than 6 pm. Didn’t see any ipads/iphones etc (hence the time/decade question).
@thane15
i’m guessing it’s current time. bill has a cell phone, which looks like a normal iphone/smart phone, on which she gets a call from her mother…
still digesting all the comments here, preparing to do a re-watch, but one of my first thoughts when i saw the pictures the doctor took of bill’s mother was, is that the same actress who played the lost time traveler in ‘hide?’ (or someone similar looking enough to get away with the connection, anyway?) i don’t think there’ll be any familial connection between bill and the doctor (or his past companions), i think she’ll just be a mirror in which he’ll see glimpses of himself, and his situation with river and susan. he still doesn’t technically remember clara, i’m guessing, but he does remember donna, quite well, and the moment when he decides not to mind-wipe her memories was a call back to that, methinks…
my first official bonkers theory of the new season: the doctor, himself, is in the vault… in his next regenerated (regenerating, if it’s a stasis vault) form, having been trapped there by _______ (insert villain of your choosing).
i’m so often wrong, though, but… who nose?! it’s so great to be back! 🙂
17 April 2017 at 03:19 #56325@lisa
P.S. As a retired university professor, I should also add that the grandeur of the Doctor’s office at the university also demonstrates why fiction is far more desirable than reality…17 April 2017 at 03:28 #56326<p style=”text-align: left;”>@blenkinsopthebrave</p>
<p style=”text-align: left;”>I had a physics professor who’s office was a closet. Literally a broom closet beside the classroom.</p>
<p style=”text-align: left;”>@geoffers</p>
<p style=”text-align: left;”>Brilliant idea! There is the possibility of the new Dr and PC doing the finale AND the Christmas special as well as Tennant as 10.5 but don’t take my word for it.</p>
<p style=”text-align: left;”>More in the spoiler forum ;)</p>17 April 2017 at 03:29 #56327Will Orson Pink ever be explained?
i thought orson was a descendant of clara and danny (who just happened to look A LOT like his great-great-grandfather, or whatever), who ended up never really existing because missy had danny killed, and turned into a cyberman?
17 April 2017 at 03:34 #56328Yeah that’s my biggest gripe against Moffat. He leaves broken time lines and plot holes everywhere. I compare him to JJ Abrams often. “Lost” for example. I would love to see him close at least a few holes for us. Sadly this means more Clara but just as a cameo. Jenna is great in “Victoria”.
17 April 2017 at 03:48 #56329i agree, somewhat. moffat does tend to go for the emotional moment, rather than the strictly rational, well-thought out plot. the plot holes are less important than the emotional payoff for him, and i’m ok with that. i don’t watch doctor who as a puzzle-solving show, anyway, more as a drama with cool little mind tricks and thinking exercises. when you can literally change time in any given situation, leaving a lot of time-changes off-screen makes for simplified storytelling, i guess? lol
*end moffat apology*
17 April 2017 at 04:43 #56331[hmm, my post #56324 seems to have gotten lost. here’s what it said, just in case it never shows up, again.]
exactly what year is it? In fact it’s just occurred to me, it could be….any time-ish. As long as it’s not later than 6 pm. Didn’t see any ipads/iphones etc (hence the time/decade question).
@thane15
i’m guessing it’s current time. bill has a cell phone, which looks like a normal iphone/smart phone, on which she gets a call from her mother…
still digesting all the comments here, preparing to do a re-watch, but one of my first thoughts when i saw the pictures the doctor took of bill’s mother was, is that the same actress who played the lost time traveler in ‘hide?’ (or someone similar looking enough to get away with the connection, anyway?) i don’t think there’ll be any familial connection between bill and the doctor (or his past companions), i think she’ll just be a mirror in which he’ll see glimpses of himself, and his situation with river and susan. he still doesn’t technically remember clara, i’m guessing, but he does remember donna, quite well, and the moment when he decides not to mind-wipe her memories was a call back to that, methinks…my first official bonkers theory of the new season: the doctor, himself, is in the vault… in his next regenerated (regenerating, if it’s a stasis vault) form, having been trapped there by _______ (insert villain of your choosing).
i’m so often wrong, though, but… who nose?! it’s so great to be back! 🙂
17 April 2017 at 04:53 #56332Did some ‘sherlocking”
Jennifer Hennessy Bill’s step mum was last seen stuck in traffic in “Gridlock”
17 April 2017 at 05:48 #56333@craig and @jimthefish
It is true about what @geoffers said. Posts (and not just by @geoffers) seem to have gone missing.Oh, this is probably on the wrong thread…anyway, you get my point.
17 April 2017 at 05:59 #56334@rorysmith The ship is clearly the one from ‘The Lodger” if you compare the burn marks on the concrete in this episode. Well, I could be wrong, but water/oil spill lady would explain poor Craig’s rot on his ceiling and wall.
@arbutus Hello! Also loved the soundtrack. 😊
17 April 2017 at 06:05 #56335@lisa Hmmmm, in Gridlock? All the wild theories we could spin surrounding this.
Sherlock’s sister is SO in the vault. (;
17 April 2017 at 07:31 #56336@thane15 I am *so* glad to hear that your mum is doing better — have never forgotten her comment here that she’d be, er, tits up in a matter of months, so the doctors said, yet here she is still! That’s great news.
And in one sense I’m in a similar situation to hers — I’ve bought S10 through iTunes, downloaded it today, and got — only the soundtrack! So I’ve heard 10-1 as a radio play, with music. It made a damn good radio play, too, and for the first time I really paid attention to the music right the way through — hoping for hints about the action that I couldn’t see. Good music! And the Doctor’s voice has mellowed in a way that goes with a nature more open to caring feelings. I loved the spring and pace of the episode, found Bill just dandy, but of course knew nothing about MasterSim popping up at the end (til now) or a Rembrandt portrait on the wall. So much still to look forward too! I’m calling iTunes in the morning to straighten out the problem, whatever it is, and then I’ll actually see the show, and be caught up.
Oh, hey, the final season of “The Leftovers” just started here; my sister and I were chortling together on the phone after, about what a relief it was to feel ourselves in knowing, capable hands again with this strange tale, willingly just relaxing and “letting the mystery be” (because there’s no other option, short of locating and stealing the script for the final episode). When it get so you folks, I think you won’t be disappointed — we’re not!
@nerys This third and final season of Broadchurch gives me much more confidence in Chris Chibnall taking over the reins.
Gods, I hope you’re right! I don’t think BC 3 has shown up here yet — haven’t been looking for it, since I didn’t like any of the characters (except the bitter woman on the beach with her dog, survivor of an awful life), so maybe it’s come and gone without me noticing. I’ll look around; always willing to give a story another chance (well, mostly).
And I loved Clara, and was sad to see Jenna Coleman go, but I admit that tonight felt like a breath of fresh air.
You know, part of the unsustainable nature of the CapDoc/Clara relationship was the weirdly claustrophobic feel that the S9 created. Even apart, as they were for some eps, there was that submerged pull going on — his “duty of care”, her hooked on him giving her something to live for after Danny’s death. It was brilliant, IMO, but it did have to end, and thank goodness it’s gone now. They really did liberate each other, and we can see the effect immediately (well, you all saw it; I only heard it, but hope to see it tomorrow).
Also, the sense of awe and wonder pervading this episode. With Clara, I often felt that was missing,
Yes — in S8 Clara was preoccupied with her Doctor/Danny problem, and in S9, it was more or less two Doctors in the Tardis, and the wild stuff was all in a Doctor’s day’s work, in a way. Bill’s got an appetite for wonders, I think, and the confidence not to be scared (enough!) of some of them.
@miapatrick this last season. I love the complicated stories, the mysteries and insane theories they generate.
Me too, and I too feel lighter and brighter with relief from that, in this new story. As thane posted, mum is always saying that you can’t be ‘dark and macarbre’ all the time. I think you can but really, I guess what she’s saying is that Doctor has evolved; stepped out into the light with a different perspective. He’s emotionally regenerated.
Nicely put: a light from the shadows shall spring. I swear, if some nitwit (elsewhere, obviously — we don’t knit wits here, you gotta bring your own) — if some nitwit starts whining that they’re really disappointed that S8-9 didn’t live up the the promise of being dark, I’ll have to do some exterminating of my own. You get a renewed sense of just how dark S8-9 was by the contrasting brightness of this crisp (and soggy) little horror story.
@mudlark and the Doctor ‘has promises to keep’
Oogh, that’s a line to shiver me timbers — usually, it seems to me, the Doctor trying to keep promises always ends in tears . . . and yes, I wouldn’t be surprised if Moffat had read Joan Vinge — although when the man has time to read books, I can’t imagine, working at the pace he does!
@juniperfish A mysteriously wrecked ship…. Time-lordy perhaps.
Not wrecked, as such, if I recall correctly. Wasn’t the Marie Celeste found floating at sea entirely intact, even to a meal on the table, but abandoned? No crew, no bodies, no notes, but everything in order. Very creepy indeed. Are we to assume that the crew didn’t “disappear” — but that the Doctor rescued them with the Tardis?
@phaseshift . . . Series 8&9 both featuring characters as Orpheus, braving extremes like the Nethersphere and Confession Dial to recover loved ones.
Oh, thanks for that! I’d missed entirely. Also Bill and Heather (thanks, @jimthefish).
@mersey Last year it was Beethoven and breaking wall, this year maybe Rembrand
Maybe this is more about *seeing* — oneself, as well as others. Rembrandt’s later self portraits (I’m guessing this is one of those) are famous for the sense they give of the artist staring quite mercilessly at himself — what his life has made of him — no shiny gestures, just sober self-confrontation; and our first story is about seeing your face “wrong” in a mirror of water . . .
17 April 2017 at 08:05 #56337@nerys @redlemons I never cared much to re-watching DW — until the Moffat/Capaldi team took over. That was the point at which I began suggesting to the people who were uncomfortable with or unable to connect with or understand S8-9 that they wait a bit, and then watch again. That stuff was layered as fine cake (dark; probably bittersweet chocolate). I don’t think S10 will be as densely layered, judging by Ep 1 — but it will still reward another viewing. Or six. I’m sure of it.
@wolfweed This is the picture but it seems to be altered in the show to make the circles recesses…
Thanks for that — the workman with his tools — and — Round Things? Wait a minute, there —
@kharis Our tarot card progression theme we figured out in episode one of last season (season 9) turned out to be dead on right until the last card “The World” and now I wonder if we haven’t stumbled on another theme arc in the first episode?
Why not? Not so sure about that last card for S9, though — doesn’t The World symbolize, among other things, broader travels, new realms of experience and education opening up, graduation into the wider world (well, universe, in Clara’s case)? She goes off to take in all of the universe that she can, without him offering the thrills of risk but also a failed attempt at protection. He returns to the universe — but it’s a bigger universe, no longer circumscribed by his “duty of care” to her. They’re each free of the other, in a less fraught universe.
@bluesqueakpip (re photographs on the desk) Capaldi Doctor has become the man who remembers his family. Maybe being forced to forget Clara made him finally realise how precious those memories are?
Oh, nice! SmithDoc was the one who said he never forgot anyone; but CapDoc dispenses with the boast and simply makes damn sure he *doesn’t* forget anyone.
@blenkinsopthebrave P.S. As a retired university professor, I should also add that the grandeur of the Doctor’s office at the university also demonstrates why fiction is far more desirable than reality…
Definitely, but on the other hand . . . if you been the university’s most popular lecturer for fifty years, I expect you might have secured yourself the nicest office available. Fifty years! Now, that’s a professor of truly heroic energy and pizazz!
@geoffers *end moffat apology* Applause! Agree completely, and I love emotional pay offs far better than precision watch-making.
. . . the doctor, himself, is in the vault… in his next regenerated (regenerating, if it’s a stasis vault) form, having been trapped there by _______ (insert villain of your choosing).
I love it! That is so bonkersly perfect! It’s a golem, waiting to be animated by the current Doctor’s energy — but CapDoc can’t go yet because of “promises to keep”! He’s keeping his own next self safe/prisoner — I put this here because it’s not really a spoiler, given that that’s NOT how regeneration works. But it would be . . . so delicious . . . (still thinking about cake . . . )
17 April 2017 at 08:11 #56338@ichabod Oh goodness, yes, the nit wits from Slip twit. I’m on board with you:
I swear, if some nitwit (elsewhere, obviously — we don’t knit wits here, you gotta bring your own) — if some nitwit starts whining that they’re really disappointed that S8-9 didn’t live up the the promise of being dark, I’ll have to do some exterminating of my own.
Thank you for your best wishes for my health –much appreciated. Yes you and @mersey made the connection with the reasons for Rembrandt’s portraits which is paralleled nicely with the Doctor. Called Doctor What now 🙂
@geoffers good to see you back, mate (ye ol’ purofilion here)
bill has a cell phone, which looks like a normal iphone/smart phone, on which she gets a call from her mother…
<slaps face> Of course, shouldn’t have enquired until I’d double checked for meself! ‘0-0’
@lisa that’s a great pick-up -I KNEW I’d seen that particular actress in something so familiar! And so she was. Well spotted.
Yeah that’s my biggest gripe against Moffat. He leaves broken time lines and plot holes everywhere
I suppose the emotional pay off between real, raw characters is exactly that. I can’t seem to recall that many plotholes? I know that Clara was supposed to be born under a clock…,but I’ve rationalised that by thinking being born near/under a clock isn’t so unusual and one could suggest Clara was reborn, or born ‘again’ in a time stasis device living in-between her heartbeats .. But, seriously, on plot holes I could have lost my way or been stuck in my own for far too long!
Best to all,
Puro and Thane
17 April 2017 at 09:26 #56340@thane15
thank you, puro, it’s so good to be back. have spent most of the past year obsessing over ‘Game of Thrones’ (and the books, aSoIaF), as there was a vacuum in my (who)universe that needed to be filled. but now it’s time to get back to bonkersizing!
also, i hadn’t been keeping up with the day-to-day goings on here on the forum, so i didn’t know about your struggles. i, too, am glad that you are doing better, and i look forward to your contributions throughout the season! 🙂
re: my curiosity about the actress in bill’s photos, i don’t think it’s the same woman who played the time traveler in ‘hide.’ they do look similar, in some ways (the dimpled chin, for one), so it could just be that the original actress wasn’t available, if there is to be a connection. but for now, i’m going to assume there isn’t. after missy’s scheming to place clara with the doctor, i doubt they’d go that route so soon…
i did wonder, though, about the vehicle that leaked the fluid. could it have been a spacecraft that had some interest in the events of ‘the waters of mars?’ others have pointed out the similarities to ‘midnight’ and ‘tWoM,’ and i noticed right away how heather became “possessed”/inhabited, much like the colonists there. (she wasn’t seen to touch the puddle, but perhaps that’s how she was dragged in?) it’s a tenuous connection, at best, and far more likely that they’ve come up with a completely new creature…
but, it only takes a hint from the production team, for me to go that extra mile! 😛
17 April 2017 at 09:46 #56341i had another thought, about that vault, related to (what the audience knows is) the coming regeneration. given the effect river has had on the doctor, i wonder if he would try to upload a version of his consciousness to CAL, so that they could have a “life” together? so maybe he has CAL inside the vault, to protect her (but from whom, or what… and why), while he works on a way to join her… or, is just waiting for the inevitable moment of his next death? maybe he could only accomplish it during a regeneration, and he’s set up a transfer station in there for when his time has come (again)?
lol, i’m genuinely headed into fanfiction/shipper territory!
but all my theorizing leads me to the question, also, of: wouldn’t the bloody tardis be the safest bloody place to stash (bloody) whatever is inside? i mean, he got the eye of harmony in there, so…
(we’re only one episode in, how will i make it through with my sanity intact??!!)
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