The Rose & Crown

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@pedant

I know you defend the media, and I often would too, but this campaign has been really interesting to watch who says what, and about whom. And what’s not reported. It’s not just Scottish paranoia.  And it has been bruising,  The so-called “riots” in Glasgow on Fri for example which went round the world were much exaggerated as far as I can ascertain from friends who were there. I’ve seen (in respected newspapers) reports of 2 murders and the Herald offices having been set on fire by No supporters. Neither of these was true. Social media is much worse. Pictures of old riots in Tottenham were used to represent Glasgow. There were at most 50 or 60 people involved and some flares, but with careful editing that was made to look as if half the city was in flames.  Today Glasgow’s  George Sq is the scene of a massive collection for food banks – I hope that’s being reported as widely.

You are right to be rigorous in demanding evidence, but individual cases can look like chip-on-the-shoulder stuff. It’s the cumulative effect.  Turn your pedantic hammer/torch/screwdriver on the UK media in the months to come. I look forward to discussing it further with you. I repeat what I said above – everyone in the UK should watch the media very closely in the next few months. Believe nothing and question everything.

 

[Craig @craig Emperor]

Hi all,

Just to let you know, JimTheFish contacted me last night to let me know that he was “going to take a break from the forum for a while”. He said it was “because lots of RL stuff is getting in the way at the moment”.

I’ve been in touch with him today and he wanted you all to know that this was not “a fit of Caledonian pique but the culimination of a variety of RL factors.” He also said ” I’m seriously touched by all the imprecations to stay.”

He ended his email with this: “I shall be an occasional lurker but feel certain that I’ll be back on the forum before long. One day I shall come back, as some old dodderer once said, I believe….”

I’ve thanked him for all the hard work, the many insightful posts which were always a joy to read and the great art. He made a massive contribution to making the forum what it is today and it wouldn’t have been nearly the same site without him.

To JimTheFish… I, for one, look forward to his return!

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@craig

As you’re about – can you fix the link in my post #32290 please?

And that’s great to hear about the fishy one.

*hits self over head for ungeeky skills*

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@scaryb

The so-called “riots” in Glasgow on Fri for example which went round the world were much exaggerated as far as I can ascertain

Been there, done that. I well remember one ‘riot’, reported as such on the national news, which basically boiled down to ‘a few idiots throwing bottles’. Bottles in a recycling bin which seemed to be strangely accessible – considering that everyone knew there was going to be a protest.

Funny, really. All those bottles, just waiting to be thrown… to this day, I’m not entirely sure which side managed to set that one up.

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@craig – that’s good to hear. Pass on my best wishes and my hopes that RL gets sorted out soon.

He’s made a brilliant contribution to this site and I’d be heartbroken if I thought I’d helped contribute to some kind of last straw.

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@scaryb

I know you defend the media,

I am last the person to defend the media (we don’t have a free press, we have a private press and that is a very important distinction that gets entirely ignored), but I will defend journalist who are guilty of nothing more than asking difficult questions.

The so-called “riots” in Glasgow on Fri for example which went round the world were much exaggerated as far as I can ascertain from friends who were there. I’ve seen (in respected newspapers) reports of 2 murders and the Herald offices having been set on fire by No supporters. Neither of these was true. Social media is much worse

Curiously, I follow several BBC hacks on Twitter and who were still in Glasgow, and they were very clear that, despite the Unionist symbolism, this was just idiots spoiling for a fight (who once-apon-a-time would have pitched up at Ibrox or Parkhead).

Turn your pedantic hammer/torch/screwdriver on the UK media in the months to come.

Like this?

Or this

Maybe this?

[Rob @rob]

@scaryb

As a trier but fail-er at ‘being the best we can be’ I agree

@nick

Gordon Browns speech was a very powerful Better Together item showing positive concept of the Union

Sorry am going to have to agree with IAmAFishNotIAmAFreeMan and with @pedant ( 😛 ) politicians have to be rode hard to make them answer a question and flesh it out, factual news needs to be reported.

ohh and as a ps

I dislike the modern way of reporting yet to happen news…… later today politician x is going to say blah blah blah

 

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@rob

 later today politician x is going to say blah blah blah

Yup. That ain’t news – it’s news management.

[Anonymous @]

@jimthefish  I wholeheartedly agree. Your contribution helped me to join this forum. Only by reading this thread (and your contribution), did I recall the debate in the US regarding nationalism (and its alleged friend patriotism), the health debate which cornered the poor and ill as well inefficient World Banking, poor education and a Right so far Right, one can see fascism just over the Hill (The Tea Party or what I call Alice in Wonderland).

The debates in Scotland made me believe more than ever as @phaseshift has mentioned, that politics should be for all; that party politics are left over scraps from the 20th Century. To me the States and all Super-developed countries might consider Simon Schama’s (and Fukuyama’s) expression: “This is a Manichean struggle between good and evil, freedom and terror”. He goes to state that the Labour Market in the UK is ‘globalised as a legend only” and that state building is actually more important than removing states (or making govt smaller): “Nation states should be strengthened out of a hope that lesser developed countries will have a chance to develop economically”. This comes first. I’m not sure I entirely agree but I understand the point.

Come back!! Kindest,  puro

[Nick @nick]

@pedant

I’m not sure what the title Business Editor etc actually means other than as a way of showing seniority. I read Pestons blog relatively frequently (or did when he actually wrote one) and found it to be a mix of news (often based on rumour or unattributable briefings), analysis and opinion. His TV pieces often go the same way, some analysis of the situation followed by his opinion on the meaning.

You may think his opinion is authoritive, but from my own knowledge it isn’t and it generally isn’t the only point of view either, if you read multiple sources. He’s a good journalist imo. Analysis of news is needed, but opinion should always be stated as such. Unfortunately, too much UK news coverage is clouded by opinion and worse slanted by deliberate choice for political reasons. The BBC remains pretty free of this, more than most (as does Sky News) although there is always the problem of what gets covered and what doesn’t.

[Nick @nick]

@rob

Unfortunately I saw very little of what Brown said on Sky News. I don’t disagree with you about politicians, but there is a difference between giving them a hard time in an interview (for which the journalist needs to be very well briefed on the topic to be able to bring out the facts or counter-arguments) and most interviews we see on TV news.

As @pedant implies, setting the news agenda is more important today than anything else, as the news itself is shaped and controlled by the agenda setter all too often. On Scottish Independence debate, the agenda was set by the pro-union side (I think 1 Scottish newspaper and no English news papers supported the idea of independence).

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@pedant

Turn your pedantic hammer/torch/screwdriver on the UK media in the months to come.

Like this?

Or this

Maybe this?

Exactly like those, yes! 🙂

(Sorry, my original phrasing was a bit clumsy. I also know many journalists (inc for the BBC, and of various political hues) for whom I have massive respect and whose integrity isn’t in any doubt. But it’s interesting talking to them about what story pitches are accepted and what happens to articles when they reach the subs’ desk)

More power to ya, Mr P!

[Anonymous @]

@arbutus  I mention Marzano – a wonderful diagnostician (with education and not medicine) – in Australian schools when I present workshops. You may know that our Australian curriculum was a total shambles from prep (which originally only had funds for 3 days in one week and two the next for about…ooh…..60 years or more) to year 11.

Year 11 and 12 are the senior years and whilst most states have a set exam for each subject selected by the examination board, when I came to QLD in Year 11 myself, I found we had a more sympathetic assessment system which took into account all the tasks a student completed from term 1 Yr 11 until the end of Yr 12.

Naturally, there was a sense of fullest and latest achievement being taken into consideration as well as anomalies in data. I liked that system, and as a teacher, some of the time in government schools, I still do.

However, the younger grades have finally taken the advice of a virtual royal commission into education extolling the values of Canadian teaching and learning. We now have a new and formal Australian Curriculum which is very technical and ‘heavy’ but that’s because we’re so…basically..dumb.

No, kidding, we are great in some areas such as english and (some physical) geography, earth Science, music, Film and TV and drama but our maths and science, in general, and even our History, has been poor -I can speak only for QLD, for as a young student in Adelaide, I recall studying both Shakespeare plays and sonnets in year 8 -performing them, and memorising a few stanzas was great for both music and drama and gave our English lessons a deliberate focus.

I believe that eventually – and it will take a good 8 years – students and their poor teachers will catch up. I used Marzano when I wrote the first portion of the history curriculum when it was designed to incorporate some unit plan ideas, an assessment item and some ‘linking statements’ to the units before and after.

In the past, teachers followed a haphazard, chaotic approach of thematic ideas lurching from Communist China to Byzantine ‘studies’ to the Aztecs and back to Medieval China and Japan! (with, say, an emphasis on foot binding and feminism). People just ran with whatever they wanted to.

Eventually, the teachers and head of departments were besieged with phone calls begging us to stay and write the whole bloomin thing -not just broad and sweeping statements but unit plans and handout and PowerPoints in their entirety. As a relatively experienced teacher, I was one of the few who did not end up in hospital with stress and overload fevers!

Many teachers (because the government in QLD was changing from Labour to ‘dreadful Liberal’ and thus draining our supplies of artists -for maps; and copyright technicians for image permits) were employed in this capacity to write units in terrific detail having only taught for three years, with a BA or a Bachelor of Education -few had Masters,  much less PhDs in their areas.

Consequently, there’s been a lot of re-touching up of these units/lessons and all are vocational as the $ isn’t there.

Whoa, apologies for the rant. 🙂  What I had originally intended to say, was that our government and particularly the more sensible ‘contractors’ into this world of education, used not only Marzano but also other Canadian academics in the field of teaching. The books I consulted were incredible and opened my eyes to the type of leadership Canada has. Truly, magnificent.

The other film you may know about is Breaker Morant? It concerns the 2nd Boer War, starring the inimitable Jack Thompson as the trio’s lawyer and Edward Woodward as Harry “Breaker” Morant.

Directed by Bruce Beresford, it details the last days of three Australians, who were court-martialled for murder. Some argue they were scapegoats in the same vein as the (Private) Chelsea Elizabeth Manning – Assange ‘affair’. Manning was earlier known to us as Bradley but was diagnosed with GID in the army.

A movie about Assange is coming out shortly and he’s being played by none other than Ben Cumberbatch who appears to have nailed that incredibly difficult and obnoxious accent of ours!!

But yes, I think Master Arbutus could see Breaker Morant -certainly a winner of AFI awards and spoken about with hushed awe in Film and TV classes at colleges here and there.

Kindest, puro (sorry, a long one!)

[Nick @nick]

@purofilion

? The Assange film (Fifth Estate) has been out for a while on DVD (at least in the UK). Assange himself panned it as did most reviewers. I have seen extended parts myself (channel surfing) but it didn’t inspire me to watch the entire film.

Breaker Morant is a great film, although I haven’t seen it for quite a few years. I’m not sure how historically accurate the film is, but it definitely makes a very powerful point.

[Anonymous @]

@nick  oh, I didn’t know that!  I think it’s not out in Oz yet, but yes, whilst I read the Australian reviewer, Evan Williams, I generally just wait about & if the local cinema stops showing 2 sessions a day in 2 weeks you know it bombed!

[Nick @nick]

@purofilion

There’s another film too : We steal secrets : story of wikileaks, which is more of a documentary style with archive film cut in. I’ve watched chunks of that on TV as well (but wasn’t moved to watch it from the start either).

[Rob @rob]

@Purofilion

Have a great holiday and remember breath 😉

[janetteB @janetteb]

@purofilion Happy Holidays. We have all our teacher/neighbours over tonight to raise a glass or two to celebrate end of term. I was thinking of you in the bottlo and I bought a Jacobs Creek. I hope your supply is soon replenished.

Cheers

Janette

[Whisht @whisht]

ah – hopefully not too late to wish @purofilion and familion a happy holiday!

[apologies, been busy at work and reduced to lurking at odd hours!]

Also – hopefully @jimthefish comes back soon after the other stuff gets sorted out (thanks for letting us know @craig ) – I miss his voice already.

[Craig @craig Emperor]

@doctorbaker I have to admit you’ve made me laugh. Cheers. And I do admire the effort. Honestly. Not being sarcastic.

I hope you’ll post on our Doctor Who memories thread, and maybe on the companions thread. Also just say hello on the Sofa. I would really like to hear where you’re coming from.

[DoctorBaker @doctorbaker]

@craig  ha! Glad you prefer my new avatar. I didn’t create the photo but when I saw it, I knew exactly what the caption shd be!

I shall certainly be sharing my thoughts on the various threads here. As you know, I don’t have a lot of love for Pete D. (or the J N-T era in general) but for the most part, I’m enthusiastically on board for anything Hartnell to Baker and Eccleston to Capaldi.

[Anonymous @]

Just a quick update on my Horticulture course. One of the perks is that we can help ourselves to fruit and veg from the training & conservation areas. I’ve got a lovely crop of  blackberries, hazelnuts, sweet chestnuts and Malus Domestica – eating apples that are the size of cooking apples but they’re the sweetest, juiciest apples you could ever eat.

I’m off to make an apple and blackberry pie – just as soon as I’ve figured out how to make pastry. And the filling. And how to use the oven. Cooking isn’t my greatest strength 😉

@phaseshift – You know those small, furry animals that you’re dealing with? Do you want to swap? I had a rather painful day’s training today. My arms are covered in insect bites, nettle stings and scratches from assorted thorny plants (mainly bramble from my blackberry foraging). On the plus side, with all the nice weather we’ve been having, my tan’s coming along nicely 🙂

 

[Anonymous @]

mesmerised by morphine (a spot of unwell) I watched “aftersun” with Parish and Capaldi. Set in a Spanish villa (during their 20th anniversary) they bitch and complain (and love again) whilst Capaldi wears special socks for his fungis and ‘loses part of himself’ in his tiny speedos whilst belly flopping in the pool and ‘trying it on’ with the sweet lass half his age romping about in her (well fitting) bikini. Parish is marvellously acidic and isolated and Jim (Capaldi) is overworked, miserable and shouty. Oh I loved it. Capaldi was utterly different drunk and mouthing “uxorious” whilst drooling.

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

@fatmaninabox

I’ve picked up a few bangs and scrapes myself with this work. I genuinly buggered my knee by walking into something concrete. That’s the thing about small furry animals. Apparently they are scared by light, and I need it to see. With someone as inherently clumsy as me, absence of light is a guarantee for disaster.

Glad you’re reaping the fruits and nut of your labours though. One of the benefits of living in a semi-rural environment and staying put is that I planted some twigs when I first moved in, and we now have our own copse in the back garden. Straight from the tree, apples are incredible.

We perhaps need a cookery corner. I’m a bit lazy on pastry, I use a really basic shortcrust for both savoury and sweet pie bases, which works for me. If you’ve got some sharp apples and like pork, try making your own apple sauce. Heat some butter, add in some sugar and chopped pealed apples adjust it till it’s simmering and cover. The apples will soon break down and you can mush them easily. Stir it to a puree and adjust the flavour with a little more sugar to taste. Tastes fantastic.

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

OK – little bit of politics, but this made me laugh my head off. It’s a work of genius, but you can’t help feeling sorry for cassetteboy, the producer. The hours of footage from the recent Conservative Convention he must have sat through to produce this. I only saw “blink and you miss it” coverage in news highlight programmes, and I felt like topping myself.

Warning – does contain swearing. But it’s a Prime Minister swearing, so it must be OK! 😀

[Mudlark @mudlark]

@phaseshift  I saw the first part of Cameron’s Conference Rap last night on HIGNFY and laughed myself silly!  It is even better in full, and if it has not already gone viral it deserves to.

On the subject of pastry, a agree that a basic shortcrust is really all that is necessary.  My mother used to make the lightest and flakiest shortcrust I have ever encountered and used it for all pies and tarts, sweet and savoury; she didn’t even have to weigh out the ingredients but judged it all by eye.  For sweet pies she simply brushed the top with a little water and sprinkled with sugar.  Sadly I never succeeded in making it so perfectly, however careful I was 🙁

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

@mudlark

Oh – Many thanks. I think the thing about my current schedule (working a fair few evenings and nights) is that I’ve become thoroughly disconnected from what is on TV, in Autumn, when everything comes back. I seem to have missed every TV moment that people are talking about for about 7 weeks.

I’m delighted that HIGNFY is back, as I had absolutely no idea. I shall seek out the inevitable repeat, and set the record button!

I’m pretty good at Shortcrust, which MrsPhaseshift (rather enviously) puts down to having cold hands, which may also have been your Mum’s trick as well. Apparently poor circulation has a benefit! If you can keep your hands a couple of degrees cooler, it “smears” the lard and marge onto the flour rather than absolutely melting them onto it, and that’s the big difference. She recommends refrigerating the flour for people who aren’t naturally part reptillian. 😉 When you’re rubbing, keep it to short periods, and refrigerate again if necessary. The expansion of the smeared fats (rather than absorbed) during cooking gives it that light texture.

[Mudlark @mudlark]

@phaseshift   Maybe cold hands is the secret, as well as speed and handling it as little as possible, also not being heavy handed with the rolling out.  For most of the time that I was still living with my parents we had no fridge, so there was no question of chilling it that way.  On the other hand, neither did we have central heating, and all of the houses we lived in up to the point I left had either a walk-in cold larder or a cellar or both. In one house we also had the option, for keeping milk and butter cool, of immersing them in a cistern in the garden which took the overflow from the artesian bore which was our water supply.

Mother generally used lard only, or sometimes cooking fat, but never butter or margarine.  I was quite good at the rubbing in part, but somehow the result, while passable, was never as good as hers.

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@purofilion    Moving into the pub as you suggest, we’ve gotten well away from The Caretaker. Supper has been cooked (by Mr. Arbutus) and eaten by all, pasta with creamy veggie sauce and extremely garlicky garlic toasts! Now some Talisker is being enjoyed prior to the drinking of tea. (Arbutus Jr. is skipping straight to the tea.) I’ve put some on some lovely early Tudor polyphony (inspired by the Hilary Mantel conversation) to go with the whisky (inspired by our Mr. Capaldi).

I have not yet read Bring Up the Bodies, though I should do so before the next one comes out and she wins yet another Booker! I confess I haven’t read any of Mantel’s other books, but some of them look quite interesting. I wasn’t aware of her prior to Wolf Hall, which interested me because of the setting: early 16th century is fascinatingly transitional, neither medieval nor modern. But then I didn’t read it for a long time because suddenly, everyone was reading it, and I occasionally get cranky that way. When she won the second Booker, I thought, okay, I guess I’d better get on with it!   🙂   I agree that she pulls off the specifics of the time and dicey politics really well, while still creating accessible characters.

[Anonymous @]

@arbutus  I think Mantel is a wonderful person. In her autobiography -the name has left me (too much of that morphine which is a slow release and so my respiratory system is clunking away super-slowly), she speaks of her weight, financial difficulties, marital issues and the inevitable writer’s block. She’s insistent and terribly funny -black, almost. She writes about her schooling and her odd ‘vintage’ parents. Eight months on Ghazzah Street is fantastic -a group of ex-pats work in ‘Jeddah’ Saudi as part of a construction business, she and others, refer to as “Throw’em Up, Bill’em and Scarper”. They become illegal vintners in their rented over-air-conditioned bathroom in a house shared with massive cockroaches and, on the top floor, a secret…

This detective type atmosphere is mixed with the hideous parties they need to have (to impress superiors) during which the pots she’s purchased, start losing their Teflon (called Saudiflon) during their first use and they explain it away as flecks of pepper -which become unnaturally large (for pepper) as the evening wears on. Madly trying to skim it off, she drinks more of the disgusting ‘potato’ vintage a la bathroom which doesn’t really matter as all the guests are boasting about how much money they’re making in The Kingdon.

I haven’t given much away as it gets wonderfully complicated, but like a Sylvia Plath work, it’s neat, enticing, delicate and poignant. I love the patrolling cockroaches myself.

Mr Arbutus has many ticks for being  a creative and clever cook. Sounds absolutely delicious and refined. As does wine and music. We have House playing -music and dialogue-  and the third night of Spag Bog -with added Chianti-  whilst BoyIlion will watch some Grand Final Bully-boy Footy, with a mate at a sleep over!!

Yeehah. I’ll watch The Doctor -lonesome, tonight, and then, I have a feeling I might be called into “the office” late evening …for something… Great! Another forced sleep-in.

Kindest, puro.

 

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@purofilion     You have convinced me. I will find myself something of HM’s and dive in.   🙂   For now, off to bed and in the morning, the Doctor will be waiting, TARDIS and all, to take me to the moon. Enjoy your trip this evening, and hopefully the sleep-in will leave you fit for the conductors. See you on the other side!   oo

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

Following on from @bluesqueakpip‘s thoughts on the road to hell in the Kill The Moon thread, some thoughts on an alternative road to hell, featuring AIDS, Ebola and Princess Diana

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@pedant – yeah.

What would happen if Ebola hits these shores? Unless it does some science-fiction mutation to airborne, one heck of a lot less than is happening in Guinea and Sierra Leone. It’s not just the UK’s access to high quality healthcare; it’s its system for public health information and public health warnings, the education that means people have a working knowledge of why stuff like ‘don’t come into contact with any bodily fluids, if you do see a doctor for checks’ is important advice.

Those parents really should be ashamed. Hazel Grove is a very middle-class area, popular with commuters from Manchester. They should know better; I hope young Kofi and his mother are invited to visit a school with parents who haven’t succumbed to a whipped up hysteria.

[idiotsavon @idiotsavon]

There’s a huge push in at-risk African countries to educate the population. But there isn’t the infrastructure to isolate, treat and protect them.

A friend of mine is working in Sierra Leone to help manage and research Ebola there. I quote directly from Facebook:

Today’s morning office conversation in Kenema:
Coworker: “Bronwyn, are you British?”
Me: “No, Canadian. Why?”
Coworker: “Because you have something that the British don’t have”
Me: “What’s that?”
Coworker: gets up and shakes her bum in my face and laughs! then says “You’ve been in Africa too long now you’re like us”

I’ll be honest with you, I don’t even know what that means.

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@idiotsavon

There’s a huge push in at-risk African countries to educate the population.

There is indeed. Sierra Leone, if I’m remembering correctly, has an excellent national radio service. And I’m told there’s lots of posters up.

But, as you say, it’s no good telling people to go to a health centre if the health centre hasn’t the facilities for this number of patients.

[idiotsavon @idiotsavon]

I lived in Cameroon for a couple of years, and am still in touch with a few friends there. The information they have from the radio is truly excellent. (I used to have far more political conversations with my local shopkeeper back then than I do with my “educated” friends in the UK.)

Cameroon hasn’t been hit, and people are still cracking on with everyday life. But you can bet that if ebola arrives, all the radio jingles will be worth knack all. All the high dignitaries have already gone on factfinding missions to “Not-Here”. There might be some rejection of science, and suspicion of “witchcraft”, in the very remote villages – but they aren’t a risk. In the more densely populated villages and towns, people understand and know what to do. But they also know it won’t work. There’s no infrastructure. They just have to hope it doesn’t spread.

x

[janetteB @janetteb]

Some0ne mentioned elsewhere that @wolfweed is AWOL at the moment. I hope all is OK with our resident lupine-garden pest. 🙂

cheers

Janette

[idiotsavon @idiotsavon]

@janetteb @lisa Possibly I was getting a bit off topic – definitely wasn’t talking about Mummy on the Orient Express! 🙂

I’m just mulling really. I’m definitely not saying that “unrealistic” (sci-fi, fantasy) things don’t have anything to say about real life. Quite the opposite.

I read Terry Pratchett’s Discworld books as a biting satire about the world in which I move and breathe.

It’s just that satire and allegory don’t seem to get people talking in the same way that Eastenders sometimes does. Satire and allegory don’t spark big media campaigns. They don’t get neighbours talking over fences, I don’t think. Having something to say about the world is not the same as making something happen in the world.

That said, perhaps just making thoughts happen in people’s heads is the main thing.

x

[lisa @lisa]

I agree with Janette re: all the comments she made on the Mummy page-
Personally I have always simply preferred Imaginary places and people. That’s because I find it more palatable than the real world – I have never had much of a appreciation for soapy soap opera-it always feels vaguely demeaning – [but that’s just me] However It seems to me quite honestly that’s what some of the folks on the Mummy page have found exception with. The fact that there is an aspect in the Clara/Danny story that they are finding a bit demeaning in the way that story has developed thus far

[lisa @lisa]

btw— the comment above was meant at @idiotsavon [ oops ]

[idiotsavon @idiotsavon]

@lisa

Personally I think I probably agree with you. Although perhaps not entirely? I’m not sure.

From childhood, I’ve probably always liked people I found “real” – but I only really cared for them when they were put into impossible situations. From Charlie Bucket in the chocolate factory to the dressing-gowned Arthur Dent.

Willy Wonka was a morally ambiguous character, to say the least. But that didn’t matter. Charlie bucket was the real hero in my book.

And as long as the companion is a hero, I’m ok with a darker Doctor.

But someone has to be the hero, surely? Otherwise it’s just flawed people having a fight. (Which is what I assume people mean by “soap opera”)

And I can see that any time outside my local Homebase 🙂

x

[lisa @lisa]

@idiotsavon Well I think perhaps I take your meaning —–that you can have “real’ or
realistic people with good intentions portrayed [in any genre of storytelling} and they
can still also be flawed anti-heroes ?

Anyway- I am being ‘required’
so I need to humbly request to continue our conversation later ugh !
nite L.

[janetteB @janetteb]

nite @lisa. I agree with you and @idiotsavon on most points. I think the reason that Sci Fi etc doesn’t get people “talking over the back fence” is because it is still a niche interest. Dr Who certainly generates plenty of discussion amongst its fans and stories such as “Vincent” showed that it can and does touch on “real world” issues and plays to that. More recently the BBC promoted its “Do We Really Need the Moon” doco in the light of Kill the Moon. @thommck has mentioned discussing the issues addressed within an episode with his sons so I think the reason that Sci fi doesn’t make as much of an impact as Soaps do is simply down to viewing numbers and also, it is not necessarily addressing current issues as much as underlying trends. Being aware of those underlying trends, ie the corporate destruction of the natural world as addressed in The Green Death might well encourage people to be more active about conservation issues in general. I would say the two “genres” usually operate at different levels, both of which are important.

I think the Doctor is still the hero even though he often appears to be a little “darker”. He sometimes appears callous but that is because he is focussed upon saving those whom he can save. I am happy with the companion not being the role model hero all the time because it is the companion who must fill the “Character development” requirement. The Doctor cannot really change much. He, despite his various modifications with each regeneration, a fixed character. Clara is not acting well but I hope that this will be dealt with. I am certain it will. Right now she is the textbook tragic hero with her fatal flaw.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @janetteb]

@idiotsavon

That said, perhaps just making thoughts happen in people’s heads is the main thing.

I somehow missed that line when I read your post. It is exactly what I was trying to say above and this conversation is the proof if it. 🙂

 

Cheers

Janette

[idiotsavon @idiotsavon]

@janetteb

I somehow missed that line when I read your post.

hee hee – it wasn’t complete nonsense then 🙂

I agree with you – honestly I do! 🙂 But I don’t think it’s just down to viewing numbers. I think it’s about distance. I think distance is in the very nature of sci-fi and fantasy. That’s both the good and the bad thing about it. It makes you think: But you have to think!

🙂 x

[idiotsavon @idiotsavon]

On a completely different topic, I came to the Rose & Crown in the hope of Scampi Fries – but they’re all out.

I wouldn’t mind, but it’s an entirely fictional pub. In theory I could have pork scratchings made out of moonbeams -yet I haven’t even managed to get a single bog standard Scampi Fry.

Believe you me, I shall be writing a very snotty letter to my imagination.

x

[janetteB @janetteb]

This article in today’s Guardian touches on some of the themes we have been discussing.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/oct/17/growing-up-science-fiction-michael-newton

Cheers

Janette

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@bluesqueakpip

Congrats on your (virtual) award of  Geek of the Week on the G 😀  (They’re a bit slow over there, we’ve known that, like, forever 😉 ).  The train no spot should get you Geek of the Universe!

Anyway – champagne cocktails (as @Purofilion so aptly suggested) all round – CHEERS!

@idiotsavon @janetteb

The bar’s been restocked – scampi fries, pork scratchings, exotic fruits

jelly babies…

anything you like for snacks and drinks.

Message from the Manager: Normal service is resumed. Huge apologies everyone. Like @spider we accepted the offer of free tickets on the Orient Express and got kidnapped with her to the Nethersphere.  Only just got back… but so MUCH to tell you all, you need to know… hang on what’s that…?

Oooops!

[Anonymous @]

@does anyone know of or like dragon fruit? There’s heaps available and it’s not my thing. I’m told it should be served with lots of sugar.

It’s hot in Bris so we have every kind of cold fruit available: watermelon, kiwi, nashi pears, mangos,  early peaches (best avoided) and at my local shop the best of lollies: sugared almonds! Hear hear our  @bluesqueakpip

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