[lisa @replies]

@ichabod That’s interesting about the chips to me because like you say he
might have a few more? So why not share a chip with Clara? Maybe because she is
already a different form of immortal?
Liked very much the yo-yo. Thought of Tom Doctor having a yo-yo. It seemed he
always had lovely things in his pockets like the yo-yo and the jelly babies.
Also liked the flash back clip. There were a bunch of throw backs some mentioned
previously to other Doctors too. It’s nice to see all that incorporation.
Must say though that Ashildr an Arya from Game of T. are extremely close in the types
of characters to me so far.

[lisa @replies]

The fact that Ashildr had no mother was a detail that stuck with me. Sort of like Clara also.
I wonder in my bonkersdom can they be half sisters sharing a timey whimey mother? Is that
why Ashildr says she is ‘weird’? Both girls are dreamers. Clara had her book of dreams about
places and Ashildr has her puppets that took her to places since she was happy to stay put in
her village. Need a second watch for the details.

[lisa @replies]

@plainolddave Math (US) and/vs maths (UK) – 2 of my favs 🙂

[lisa @replies]

My question is how did there come to be only 2 chips? There were a lot of mire. I have
to re watch but it seems to me that there could have been more then 2 that the Doctor could
have taken. I think I’m missing something.

[lisa @replies]

This episode seemed odd to me. I guess I was expecting something different from the guy
that gave us Mummy and Flatline. Jenna seemed like she had very flushed cheeks? I read
that someone else thought her voice sounded rough. If she was ill then her performance
didn’t show that. Also, as far as the Mire go they were not as threatening as they were
advertised. I think the Doctor had a few interesting revelations about himself and
life generally and that was really what saved this one for me. It felt mostly like a set up
for Ashildr. There will probably be an Ashildr spin off or a book or a radio series maybe a comic.

[lisa @replies]

@ichabod Great deduction! But the Doctor always suspends TL rules.
I think that might be because he thinks that the TL way of *seeing* has more dangerous
consequences? Isn’t that why every episode is about some sort of intervention?
Always saving people and other aliens?

[lisa @replies]

@pedant Yes – She is of this world the same Clara but recurring thru time. You said it better!

[lisa @replies]

@Purfilion Don’t forget that in the “End of Time” It was admitted by Rasillon
that he implanted the sound of the drums into the Master and I think it was implied that
it happened when the Master looked into the “bleble”. So I’m not entirely sure that all
of the potential TL kids would go mad looking into said bleble. Might ask Pip or Lark
or someone else to confirm that though.

[lisa @replies]

@Purofilion Sorry about the coffee — oops! Strangely for me its Cruise that I have
some peculiar issues with. I’m always thinking that some other actor could probably be
pulling off his parts better then he does.

[lisa @replies]

@serahni I think we will getting some details in the later episodes of this series. Very exiting!

@Purofilion I think of the Claricles simply as parallels of Clara. Basically the same person.

[lisa @replies]

@drben I will google the Tarot and try to see as you say ‘what’s next’. Thanks!

[lisa @replies]

@serahni That’s basically where my thoughts are now too about Clara. Plus the idea
that she was born on a leaf implies River and under a clock tower implies the Doctor. I have
felt that Clara channels both the Doctor and River on many occasions. In Name of the Doctor
we learn that River is definitely connected to Clara. She makes this explicit.
Falling into the time stream had to mean she picked up a lot of Doctor as well by becoming essential
to his story. So maybe this makes Clara the hybrid that has been mentioned and the ‘child’
of both born in that moment when she jumped into the Doctor’s personal time vortex which could
have been the end of his life but for the creation of the Clara loop. Like River she saves
the Doctor and also like River she is a loop. I believe River is also definitely a loop. That’s
why she can keep returning as well. SM loves that device a lot!

[lisa @replies]

Some of my favorite classic films by Kubrick and Hitchcock edited brilliantly together
into this mash up. I thought a lot of Whovians might enjoy this

[lisa @replies]

@Purofilion Gridlock was interesting but it was quite dark in the way
it showed a future of being trapped in a traffic jam underground. Those conditions
were pretty bad and I guess I was just inclined to strange feelings because I lived
in LA at the time and I was very familiar with eternal traffic. A for Martha, it
seems to me she suffered from being post Rose. So she struggled ‘hitting a nerve’ with
the Doctor and that put her in a tough spot. There was always that awkward thing. But
I liked that she was very clever and fearless.

[lisa @replies]

@ichabod In Gridlock he spoke to Martha about happy memories of Galifrey. Romana
seemed to be a rather decent Time Lord. I imagine most of the TL class show the arrogance
of an advanced technological culture. The same thing happens here on Earth. But the saying
is ‘it takes all kinds of people to make a world’ probably goes for any world. I wouldn’t
want aliens to show up and be repulsed by all of the Earth’s peoples or cultures and there sure
are some really very strange goings on here on our planet! Someday I guess we might get some
more back story on this Galifrey subject. My hunch is that The Doctor cared a lot about
his home because he turned into a war Doctor to protect it. But there is something about his
relationship with other TL’s that makes me think he always felt an outcast his entire lives.
That’s the mystery that most intrigues me. Maybe the scene in Listen of him sleeping in the
barn was a tiny window into that?

[lisa @replies]

I found that the man that CapDoc played in ‘Fires of Pompeii’ was a name borrowed from
a real person that actually had a home in Pompeii and it still exists. You can go there
and see the ruins. The name is also connected to a Cambridge Latin textbook as a character
in a story in that book. What this might matter to the current situation about his face
I have no idea 🙂

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Caecilius_Iucundus

[lisa @replies]

@Purofilion put message to you on BBX spoilers page

[lisa @replies]

2Purofilion But it’s about those BBC released pictures I posted?
I don’t know where else to post 🙁 What to do Puro??

[lisa @replies]

I’ve been thinking tpday about the BBC released pictures from the next episode and in particular
the wings on Odin’s helmet reminded me of the helmet of Mercury and I found this which speaks
to a relationship:
https://books.google.com/books?id=ZHnXAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=what+is+the+connection+between+mercury+and+odin&source=bl&ots=RRLrci-BZ-&sig=tHRr8PIFP5GeVRJjKyd9fSVtHyw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFsQ6AEwCWoVChMIn9652pzDyAIVFu1jCh2mJA9e#v=onepage&q=what%20is%20the%20connection%20between%20mercury%20and%20odin&f=false

So then I thought of the snakes in the first 2 parter and the wings coming up in the third 2 parter but
I haven’t been able to think up what could be the staff from our most recent 2 parter which if we
assemble together make up the Caduceus ( the symbol of 2 snakes a rod and wings) which was the weapon
of Mercury and represents the medical profession (Doctors)

Just wondering a bit about more odd crossover connections. Its a very twisty journey… 🙂

[lisa @replies]

@mudlark I don’t recall if you have looked at the BBC released pictures from the next
episode with Maisie but there is one where she is shown from her shoulders to the top
of her boots and has a roundish item hanging off her belt. Do you have any ideas about that
item? The reason I ask is because it looks roughly like the size and shape of the thing we
named the CD of Rasillon. Probably just another silly notion but odd in the way that
picture focused on that part of the costume. Probably where she keeps something stashed.

[lisa @replies]

@mudlark I remember the F. King saying he would drain the world but I was thinking he meant he would
take/steal the water as if it were something he may have coveted? But might have misunderstood. I think
that when we think about creatures from water we think tentacles but I don’t recall whether the Cthulhu
was one? Could be so. I cant figure out the name connection either quite honestly. The only thing I
can think of is that the wanted to make a connection with something Arthurian. If so, this one might be
a big stretch. I was thinking it could have something to do with life force? The F. King drained peoples
life force in the episode and also said he would drain all the water which without water nothing thrives.
In the Arthur legend the life force was drained from the peoples ability to thrive too?

[lisa @replies]

The Doctor said the creature had died in the flood. But if its basically a water creature
then I have to think how?

[lisa @replies]

The ghosts reminded me of zombies. I’ve been trying to recall what the Fisher King reminded me
of and maybe someone already said this but not sure. It finally hit me that its a knock off of
Lovecraft’s Cthulhu. That was a cosmic sea creature part man and dragon that lived in the water
that was able to effect people in their minds. So if the Fisher King is based on the Cthulhu which
is a water creature then that would mean the creature probably isn’t dead.

[lisa @replies]

@purofilion Night night puro ? — we’ll be here when you wake up 🙂

[lisa @replies]

@jphamlore I know you also mentioned the notion of magical resurrection to me previously.
Well if Osgood is there and Danny and who knows who is trapped in that Nethersphere at least
that makes a good team that gets to be together.
I still think she is an epic loop of River’s making but possibly compromised by Missy?
In ‘Before the Flood’ the Fisher king drains the life force out of people so maybe that’s a
clue to what may happen to Clara. Then she gets saved to the Nethersphere? There have been
some other rebirth clues. But don’t forget that the Nethersphere is powered down. Although
I guess that could also be temporary. It occurred to me that in the first peoples myth that
I found about the raven and leaf that Missy may be the trickster raven that steals the light
which is Clara. The leaf would be River that the Raven swallows in the story.
So how do the Dalek nano bots fit this? Cause I still think they could be part of this too.
Those sonic glasses are made to watch Clara for something. Has to be that.

[lisa @replies]

http://www.doctorwho247.co.uk/news/the-girl-who-died-new-pictures

preview pictures

[lisa @replies]

@jphamlore

Your post about the Nethersphere as a possibility for Clara rang a bell for me. Michele Gomez
teased the idea that we might be returning to the location where Amy was in ‘The Girl Who Waited’.
That episode was where she got stuck in a clinic made for Time Lords and others that had a deadly virus.
So maybe like you suggested Clara does cross the death barrier and ends up in the Nethersphere which
implies Missy might have a part in Clara’s ending.
So now I have at least a minimum of 3 or more Clara theories.

[lisa @replies]

@jimmythetulip Previously there was a lot of speculating about the Maisie character.
I think it was in the BBC spoiler thread from sometime during the summer months.
Ace, Romana, Susan, someone new? She was with a lion like creature in the trailer so I had a
hunch about Romana but as of now I really don’t know any more. But I cant wait to find out!

[lisa @replies]

@ichabod Actually you really have to watch out for the lizard people, my favorite
conspiracy! No one know who they are. Its an illuminati thing and they are so secret 😉

In regards to the Doctor running away he did regenerate into the war Doctor rather then take
a runner. He also spent hundreds of years at Trenzalore to protect the planet. I’m not sure
if Missy using those words about running away weren’t a bit of an exaggeration. To my mind it
was usually the Master that escaped when conflicts became too unmanageable. So I’m not ready
to completely buy into her running away comment. Although she might be referring to a particular
personal incident that occurred between the 2 of them ages ago? Have3 to give that more of a think

Does everybody remember retconing? When you wipe the memories. I wonder? Maybe that could be
what happens to Clara. Maybe something like what the Doctor did to Donna to save her life?
just another wild thought…….

[lisa @replies]

@django Interesting notion!

@rob Yes!

[lisa @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave Well if you are an appallingly rank sentimentalist then I think
that holds for most of the rest of us as well! Who doesn’t wish Clara an ending
in which everything works out ( and also everything that we have been bonkerizing
also adds up 😉 )

[lisa @replies]

@bluesqueakpip @mudlark @jphamlore

I’m totally expecting a block buster twist about Clara’s last days. I expect nothing less!
It seems to me that when Clara says ‘you don’t leave me’ that hit a nerve in the Doctor
because he nearly keeled over. Why? Because he knows he needs to be with her to help with
what ever it is will be her ending.

[lisa @replies]

@bluesqueakpip and @gothamcelt Sorry! – I got @ compromised again 🙁
and the previous posts were @ both of you

[lisa @replies]

@Bluequeakpip Yes! That’s where the regeneration energy that she recently absorbed
may come into play. But it might possibly go wrong because of the Dalek influence?

@GothamCell Interesting that a group of Ravens is known as a conspiracy. I love
factoids like that.

[lisa @replies]

@rorysmith So you think that Clara is Missy’s granddaughter and that
Missy wouldn’t care about sacrificing her. But I don’t understand how that
will win any points for Missy with the Doctor. I thought she wanted to make
amends with him not destroy him. She could have been compromised by some
regeneration/Dalek energy. That is something I’d concede and it could be the
issue that helps bring her end. But even though Missy says she chose her I
think that’s a deflection. I am tending to lean towards River as being Clara’s
creator but Missy specifically choosing her for that very reason.

[lisa @replies]

@purofilion the ‘bootstrap’ comes from a sci fi story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By_His_Bootstraps

@ozitenor Yeah Blink and also @jphamlore Genesis of the Daleks too!
But the Doctor didn’t purposefully design those paradoxes as a means
to personal ends in his own story yet.

[lisa @replies]

@ichabod I’m not ruling out that it could be Missy that sets into motion whatever
it is that happens to get to the end of Clara as companion. But she isn’t really Missy’s
creature.
Unless its for maybe 5 minutes as a possible cliffhanger…. that could work

[lisa @replies]

@ichabod Missy has been back and forth on Clara’s timeline and has figured out
the Clara connections. By hybrid I think she means that she already knows that Clara
isn’t totally what she appears. It was established that as the impossible girl Clara is
something new. Who better to weaponize for maximum impact then someone that is so close
and connected to the Doctor. As to the puppy comment, it was an excellent put down!
That was Missy doing her best to mess around with Clara’s head IMHO. Because Missy is totally
about the mind games. Missy chose her because of what her position has always been with/to the
Doctor. So yes, of course that makes Clara the perfect tool for whatever Missy’s intentions are.
But those intentions I think will be totally secondary to the way I am guessing this arc is staking up.
That’s my bonkers opinion as of tonight 🙂

[lisa @replies]

The ‘Impossible Astronaut’ and “Day of the Moon” made a great loop involving River. That was
when I realized that the Doctor could skillfully manipulate loops. Then there was the “Big Bang”
which was when the Tardis went into a time loop to save River. This was an important part of loop
education for River too. She’s the original “loopy’ girl. Now we all know that River will be
reappearing after Clara leaves. She told the Doctor in ‘Name of the Doctor” that she was connected
to Clara. Plus we continue to be teased with more loops. In season 8 we had Dan the soldier
man toy loop that made me dizzy. Then the current episode.
Anyway, I know some of us have the theory that Clara will be an epic loop of River’s making.
River has been always committed to saving the Doctor. Clara was also born to save the Doctor.

In ‘Fires of Pompeii” it was Donna’s insistence that the Doctor save just 1 family. He faced
a moral dilemma. He faced another moral dilemma regarding the death of O’Donnell. I think that
goes to the reason he has this face. To recall the moral dilemmas of his actions because it could
involve him on a very personal levelwith his own family. I think we got a teasing of that in the
current episode in that phone conversation with Clara. She is surely family to him.

So I’m sure River has been meddling with time loops.
But the mystery is still in knowing how she’s dome it!

[lisa @replies]

@cumquat Bassett hounds are cool 🙂

[lisa @replies]

@arbutus I must humbly disagree. I think that since series 8 SM has been
diligently mining myths, fairy tales, tarot etc. for effect. It all reinforces
all his messaging towards the over all story arc. Furthermore, he seems to
have extensive knowledge about all of this stuff and I bet he has been having
lots of fun incorporating all of it into these episodes.

[lisa @replies]

I’ve been thinking about these Tarot associations.
In the Arthur legend when the Fisher king gets wounded the life force is
drained out of him. This alien drained the life force out of people.
Also, in the Tarot this card is associated with water and the alien
died in a watery grave.

Loving all these mythology interpretations in the series lots!

[lisa @replies]

@mudlark Yes just saying the costumes are extremely similar on 2 characters
so it was probably an opportunity to re use a good costume.
picture of each:

http://www.therobotsvoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/halfface.png

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/10/9/1444396773326/67b14b4f-7c45-494a-bf9a-3f730961ba2a-2060×1236.jpeg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=f6f4bfdd09233222ca4695a2a42777c5

[lisa @replies]

@mudlark Why was the Tivoli dressed as a Victorian undertaker? I thought in Deep
Breath the half-faced man was dressed in a similar fashion. Your right it seemed a
peculiar choice on the Tivoli. I guessed they were trying to paint a point about
death in both cases.

[lisa @replies]

The Doctor said his regeneration was a bit of a clerical error. Then he also said he was
changing history to save Clara. So again in those instances I thought of what that implies.
It’s foreshadowing something and there’s definitely a point there.

Then that conversation that they had where Clara says ‘you do not leave me’ felt like she
was channeling River to me. I think Clara is going to sacrifice herself for the Doctor just
like River did. But would it possible that River can save Clara the way the Doctor saved her?

[lisa @replies]

The phone conversation between Clara and the Doctor sounded like River
and reminiscent of the scene when River was about to die and made the speech
to the TenDoc about her future having already happened. Later Clara also told
the scientist that he has to keep going which were also words River used.

The Doctor seemed like he was curiously frantic to save Clara and yet I have
to think what he was saying to her about reverse engineering is significant in
some way to why he may have had those feelings.

[lisa @replies]

Found the first 2 parter more satisfying. My feeling is that we are getting set up
towards a very big paradox to come later. It could be about Clara and
how they might end her story? They brought up ‘love’ is this episode. @juniperfish
River is going to be involved. The leaf the raven and rebirth.

[lisa @replies]

@craig Love having your previews! Thank!

[lisa @replies]

One more thing about the leaf possibly coming from a Sycamore tree. The Egyptian goddess Hathor
is 1 of the 3 goddesses we have been previously been discussing. She is represented by the Sycamore
and also mirrors and has strong connections with lots of celestial bodies. She is the sky goddess and
is covered in stars. She is also supposed to be a divine bridge to reawaken memories. So just
though I’d give that a little mention cause you never know in Dr. Who what little thing is connected.

[lisa @replies]

@mudlark Yes, my money is on the Sycamore which I know well because I have one.
Thought that it was probably that but also thought I’d surf around to see if there
was anything else. Sycamores are not native to the UK however the Egyptians
also thought about them as portal trees between worlds. So maybe its that.
Or maybe not? What I am sure of is there was probably no expectation about someone
surfing the net over this 🙂 lol

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