Forum Replies Created
27 December 2017 at 01:55 #62767
@bluesqueakpip Ahh, that makes sense. It seemed to me to be the most likely thing, that end of an era symbolism, but I was confused if it was somehow also his wedding ring because that would suggest that turning into a woman severed the connection to River. Your explanation makes more sense.27 December 2017 at 00:31 #62760
Such special nostalgia, and a fitting farewell to an excellent Doctor. Last season restored my faith and I’m so glad Capaldi was given all those moments to shine, even if they were a season or two late with it. I’m looking forward to the new direction, and the cliffhanger ending was so reminiscent of “old school” Who that I both cheered and cursed.
Question: was the ring that fell from Jodie’s Doctor’s finger the wedding ring? It clearly has significance but it’s a detail I’ve forgotten.24 July 2017 at 10:18 #61376
That feeling when you’re simultaneously ecstatic that Bill is returning for the Christmas Special and then crushed to find out she won’t be sticking around. I mean, sure, I’m glad I was wrong about her being gay because The Doctor was fated to turn into a woman, but she’s been such a fantastic addition. Going to miss her.24 July 2017 at 09:47 #61375
Odd, it chewed up my response again once I edited it.
@nick I wouldn’t want it thought that I’m against the casting because I’m absolutely not. I’m looking forward to what a new actor brings to the role, I just hope she’s allowed to be an actor first and a woman second. I’m aware that the subtext will always be there, I acknowledge the power of it, and I don’t expect it to be entirely ignored, I’m just hoping we won’t drown in it. I watched Attack the Block the other night and really enjoyed it. (Great piece of storytelling, very raw and real.) I’ll be very interested to see Jodie’s interpretation of our favourite Time Lord, as well as our new showrunner’s contribution to the ongoing narrative. I want the stories to be strong and not weighed down by “well, now that I’m a woman…”
And I agree, we’ll probably get a male companion at some point, which is overdue. And I think it’ll be a positive thing for young boys and men to have the character that represents the “every” person now resemble them after so long without one. Mind you, I was a bit iffy when they decided to make Bill gay that it was a precursor for later things because, oh look, The Doctor now looks female. Wham, companion mooning commences. Given that Bill seems to have her love story now, and we’re not that sure she’ll be back, I guess this is unlikely but it did make me wonder if it was a set-up in advance. Just when we thought we were safe!23 July 2017 at 11:36 #61308
@antaus Your opinion sounds much like my cousin’s, who I’ve chatted to on and off about this since Missy arrived and it seemed likely she was a precursor to ‘test the waters’. He has exactly the same feeling about the importance of The Doctor as a role model who doesn’t use brawn to solve his problems, and I do empathise with it. The world is never going to grow out of needing examples of men who can use their brains at all, since there seem to be an alarming amount with Twitter accounts that make you wonder. 😉
I think I also said up earlier that we have to be careful that the quest for balance doesn’t become one of replacement instead of creation. Gender swapping fictional characters is okay up to a point, but I’m not sure that the correct message to be sending out is that men don’t deserve ANY representation. I would personally not mind waking up in Themyscira but that might have something to do with the pervading tropical sunshine and vague hope that I’d shed a few pounds under Amazonian regime. I’m not sure that it’s actually a society we should be striving for. lol Balance is hard to achieve when you’re talking about an entire cultural shift affecting so many people, so I’m glad we have spaces like this where debate can flourish and is, mostly, civil. We’re only really in trouble when diversity of opinion is lost forever.
I am holding out opinion in favour of seeing how they deal with this. For me, they will have got it right if the gender thing is acknowledged but rarely central to any of the storytelling. I know people have mentioned possible historical complications if The Doctor tries to assert authority whilst looking like a woman in certain time periods on Earth, but if that’s true then I guess I just hope they don’t visit the past very often. I want it not to matter. I want the narrative to barely notice it. I could be wanting a lot, and if this turns out to be the political move everyone fears, I am pretty sure I will find it tedious, but in the meantime, I will remain hopeful that we end up with a character and a story that transcends gender altogether.19 July 2017 at 08:18 #61090
So far wedged in, I can still feel the welt. lol I don’t really want it to happen, I can see too many negative drawbacks that would be counterproductive to the message it would send, but it’s fun thinking up ways to mess with people. Of course, that being said, I don’t lump all dissenters into the same category. I’ve already said I completely understand, and even empathise, with some of the concerns. Let’s hope at least a few of them are assuaged given time.18 July 2017 at 09:44 #60992
I have decided that what I’m actually hoping for, after all this outcry, is that The Doctor asserts the identity he’s always had and demands to be considered male, despite appearances. Admittedly, this is because I feel like people who are protesting from a viewpoint of extreme misogyny would be utterly furious to discover this isn’t a feminist agenda, but that damn liberal media and their ramblings about gender identity! Still, we know The Doctor is quite comfortable being referred to as “him”. Why should that change? I don’t think they’d go down this path, and it could be for the best since it might get tedious having to correct every second person that turns up on screen, but in the privacy of my own malicious fantasies, this is a thing.17 July 2017 at 12:42 #60893
I’m not sure if the warning is enough, there’s a few swear words on this, but essentially this is a brilliant look at all the times the show has done something that’s had a negative backwash. I chuckled quite a bit. (Please remove it if it’s not appropriate though.)17 July 2017 at 12:29 #60891
It just occurred to me that, since we’re in Valeyard territory, and as far as I know it’s never been established that we’re done with that version of The Doctor, maybe this is just all a backwards misogynistic move to use a woman to play The Doctor’s dastardly persona.
I think I’d actually chuckle.17 July 2017 at 12:26 #60889
@themadmonk Like all polite and articulate members, you’re welcome. We have a bit of history of people signing up on a whim, so to speak, to vent quite viciously and scathingly and more than a few haven’t taken kindly to alternative opinions. Forgive the wary amongst us, we are not adverse to diversity as long as it is done, as Craig so often asks, in kindness. Welcome!17 July 2017 at 12:09 #60884
I will come out and say that I do understand the misgivings of those who don’t like this. I think even those of us who are interested and even excited to see what happens are worried that it’ll be used as an unnecessary platform. I don’t want a female Doctor, I want a Doctor. Someone that captures the spirit of the character, the essence and the ethos. If that’s a man, or a woman, or a giant bug, I don’t care. But the writing has to be up to the job, it has to scrub away any significance between being one gender or another and give us The Doctor. It has to prove that this step is meant to show the lack of importance of external appearances, that it doesn’t matter what you look like because who you are inside will be the measure of a true hero. If they do that, I will be full of praise. If, on the other hand, they actually try too hard to make The Doctor a woman, I think I’ll be annoyed. I don’t care about the occasional flippant joke, or a bit of femininity, Missy proved you can play it up and retain the character, but at the end of the day, they can’t make a gimmick of this. I understand people being concerned by it, though I’m a bit disappointed they’re crystal-balling it as a foregone conclusion.
My cousin also made an interesting point about what kind of reception this would have received had the character always been female and then turned male, in today’s political climate. I know why people get weary of that, and I see their point. I think it always resonated for him too that there was a male icon out there who was a bit more brains than brawn about saving the day. Balancing out representation is important as long as we’re careful we don’t fall into the trap of replacing instead of creating. I don’t necessarily hold strong views like this myself, but I can appreciate the opinion when offered logically and fairly. I think we’re seeing a lot of overly emotive stuff at the moment, people are flinging themselves about in fits of passion speaking of wrack and ruin when this is just one part of a very long narrative that’s been going on for 50 years. It will end one day and even if this move is the nail in the coffin, I’m still glad they were willing to be bold instead of stagnating.
Going to be interesting times!17 July 2017 at 11:47 #60880
@premonition Actually, they dealt with it in the episode where Smith regenerated into Capaldi and it was very much a plot point. Check out “The Time of the Doctor” if you haven’t seen it already, the fact that the Doctor has been able to regenerate past his allotted 12 is intentional and explained in the plot of this episode. They didn’t just randomly decide to do it, they wrote it into his narrative. 🙂16 July 2017 at 22:29 #60825
Well, Who canon already established Holmes was bases on Vastra, so… lol
Very interesting. I have no different feelings now than I ever have waiting to see how a new Doctor will turn out but I will be avoiding fan spaces other than this one for a while. I hope they pitch it right and remind us all that The Doctor is not inherently one gender and that, in fact, gender doesn’t matter. I feel they got Missy right, the ethos of the character remained, and that’s what matters.
To those who are disappointed and vowing never to watch again, my commiserations but this is a show that needs to reinvent to keep going. We don’t need another Simpsons that doesn’t know when to end a narrative. Not only that, physical appearance shouldn’t matter if you love something and The Doctor is a perfect hero to demonstrate that.
We shall see.16 July 2017 at 07:54 #60706
I’ve come to realise I don’t mind who they cast as long as they add something to the show. I’m nervous about it but more because there’s an ugly side to the fandom that saddens me and it so often comes into play when it doesn’t get what it wants. Hell, maybe it’s time for the Doctor to abandon looking human at all and go Silurian. Then he can get himself a lizard companion and they can flit around time and space doing exactly what he’s always done, being exactly who he’s always been, and those who’ve completely missed the point can have something new to whinge about. (I’m sure the makeup budget alone would make it impossible, but I’ve said for a while now I wish he’d get an alien companion at least. We’re about due one.)15 July 2017 at 04:25 #6066610 July 2017 at 13:46 #60514
Oh, I definitely agree Piper was fantastic and I’ve always said her performance was excellent. Her portrayal of the character was entirely on point, I just never resonated with the character. It may have been because I was living in London at the time of the series reboot and I experienced a few who reminded me of her, and not in a favourable light. lol I’m also happy to acknowledge we probably had to endure that romance to get where we are today, I am more weary to still be encountering very blinkered fandom from some of the new arrivals who, judging by their remarks, haven’t liked an episode since Tennant left.
That being said, I’m glad Who has changed. I’m not someone who wants to go back to the way it was, since that served a purpose at the time but eventually wore out its welcome. I’d even go as far as to say that part of me prefers the reboot, but only because I suspect I’ve become a product of the times and the way the show is produced caters to my limited attention span. I don’t turn on the television for any other show, so the chances of me faring well with the episodic daily half hour aren’t great. If anything, I’m glad to have been able to experience both as they were occurring and even if I do get disgruntled with Rose/Ten, I’ll at least be gracious and thank them for keeping the show relevant. Very impatient for Christmas!10 July 2017 at 12:00 #60506
@nick @jimthefish @blenkinsopthebrave @nerys @ichabod
I knew I couldn’t be the only sane one out there! (Though that may be a questionable claim.) I do agree that I see, in some sense, the necessity of Rose but I think that’s also what makes me so infuriated about her. The idea that we needed that horrendous mush-fest to sell the merits of the show to a big enough audience to warrant its continuation. It undoubtedly would have been more tolerable had we not been inundated by fans who seemed to legitimately believe that if they shouted loud enough, Tennant would return and bring Rose with him. I understand that the show kind of used that herd mentality to get its impetus, but gosh doesn’t it feel dirty having to muck in with pretend-fans.
I’m being pretentious now, slap me.
I always try to balance out my criticism with the acknowledgement that I haven’t seen Rose’s last few episodes. I just couldn’t stomach it anymore. Much though I always point out that I thought Billie Piper’s performance was excellent, the character herself was always selfish and shallow to me. The way she treated Mickey was horrible, and in the end it seemed like she had no discernible personality that belonged to herself. Their relationship was one of co-dependence and it wasn’t pretty, at least from where I was sitting. Part of me has wondered if Davies didn’t realise he was selling out somewhat, and whether bringing Sarah Jane in for a proper farewell was his way of apologising to us all. (Because, let’s face it, much though the show itself would never have shown it, that goof loved Sarah more than he’d love some silly shop girl. I’m not bitter. lol)
I felt the same way about Martha until Martha chose another path. She could have stayed and moped, tried to cling on to something that wasn’t going to happen, and instead she helped him save the world and then hung around to look after it. I respected the hell out of her for caring about her family as much as she did too, since I was never sold on Rose caring much about anyone other than herself. I think the glimpses we got of what her future became really redeemed her character, though I certainly agree that Donna/Ten is probably the best pairing of the reboot so far. I liked Eleven/Clara, I found the dynamic between Twelve/Clara interesting, the whole saga with Danny Pink wore me down in the end and I wound up disliking that season more than I wanted to. I adored Bill though, and another season of her might rival Donna because she’s very close already. I hope we get to see more of her.
Though, if we can’t, I want an alien companion. Or a guy. Just not another pretty young girl, even if she is more interested in a puddle of water than the Doctor. lol9 July 2017 at 02:01 #60481
@missy Sorry about that, I’ve been dog-sitting and the internet here is terrible. Takes forever for the forums to load and then it doesn’t always load all the images. I thought I’d posted into Spoilers but I didn’t. My bad.
Completely and utterly and totally off-topic, but I’m interested to know what percentage of the demographic I fall into; who else thinks Rose was overrated and that Ten, as a character rather than a portrayal because Tennant was excellent and got the cream of the stories really, is overly romanticised? I’ll admit, I’ve been reading comments on silly memes but I decided against entering into debate with young girls on Facebook. lol It really bugs me that, in the scope of all the stories ever told in the Who universe, there’s still this feeling that the Rose/Doctor story is somehow the pinnacle for some people. I’m prepared to be in a small minority who wishes Davies hadn’t gone down that path, if only because the aftermath was this persistent bleating that every incarnation after Ten “wasn’t Ten” and that every companion “wasn’t Rose”.
I will await the incoming tomatoes. lol5 July 2017 at 08:47 #60383
Not sure where to bring this up, or whether it’s already been mentioned, but looks like the Impossible Girl is returning for the Christmas Special. I figured she would!3 July 2017 at 02:57 #60241
@countscarlioni Perhaps the line has become a kind of psychic trigger to help him remember all the important things after he changes, like where he put his guitar. lol It is interesting though since his “I don’t want to go” was also a repeat of an earlier version’s desire. Perhaps we’ve misinterpreted him and he’s just suffering from a convergence of personalities now that he’s so close to regeneration. Careful Doctor, you’re repeating yourself in your old age.
@bluesqueakpip Love it and completely agree. This was supposed to be the end for him, and yet now he faces the possibility of there being no end. Who knows, perhaps his exclamation of not wanting to go was partial acceptance of the inevitability of his survival. He was pretty sure he was done-for this time and, yet again, a companion saved him.2 July 2017 at 14:26 #60193
This may end up a double post because, oddly enough, I edited my original to fix a mistake and it disappeared. The thread still lists it as being the last update, but I do not see it. Apologies if this goes up twice!
@donnawho I can see where you’re coming from but I’m not sure I agree that’s what I want from Doctor Who. I have always been aware that he changes, always been prepared for those changes and the way they’ll affect his demeanor and, at time, choices. Many times I welcomed the changes because they’re what has kept the series going, the idea that you can recreate a character with the same fundamental motivation but so many different methods for getting there. Historically, the Doctor’s regenerations seem quite haphazard and come with the risk of lost information or, at least, lost interpretation. For a man who assumed he was going to die, I can imagine this incarnation has a few questions he’d like answered before he potentially forgets to ask them.
More than that, I feel like this incarnation is mirroring Bill’s earlier lamentation about not wanting to go on unless it’s as himself. Perhaps, at this point in time with no further information to go on, it might just seem like selfish egomania but part of me wonders if The Doctor has not been a shade closer to the darkness this season and whether he is simply worried that he is headed somewhere he’d rather not go. Are we not in Valeyard territory by now according to lore? Was the whole point of the redemption of Missy to muddy the waters between good guy/bad guy? Without further context, I wouldn’t want to be too hasty about assuming his reluctance to regenerate has anything to do with personal attachment because it might very well be that he simply fears an incoming storm.2 July 2017 at 00:17 #60166
Going to watch it again tonight so still processing my thoughts but, overall, great episode. Poor Bill but hooray for Heather! The intrigue at the end makes Christmas seem such a long way away, very interested to see how the special turns out!
Interestingly, we now seem to be at the Antarctic Snowcap Station following a Cyberman defeat, so it’s great to see the metal menaces get their time. I love me some Daleks but the Cybermen were always so much more horrific to me given their origins. They seem to be playing into what I said earlier about Thirteen mirroring the First in this new round of regenerations, and of course they set up reasons for why Thirteen doesn’t remember the meeting by explaining why Missy doesn’t remember Simm Master’s actions, (or does she?). The Doctor has a history of meeting himself anyway, I wonder if they’re going to out-crotchety each other. The battle of the grumpiest Doctor will be worth watching.26 June 2017 at 10:16 #59699
Like most others, I really enjoyed this! Very much looking forward to the final episode and being able to watch them together again, but this is capping off a pretty enjoyable season for me. How fitting, too, to come full circle and for the Doctor to be dealing with the origins of the Cybermen as he, yet again, faces regeneration in their presence. Given the new regeneration cycle, there’s a nice symmetry in play here since one could argue that “Thirteenth” is the same as “First”.5 June 2017 at 09:40 #585604 June 2017 at 08:52 #58473
@tardigrade Again, that makes sense but maybe not enough for me to quite forgive them for not considering it, at least. lol Either way, the episode was enjoyable enough, though perhaps not the best of the series to date. This three-parter has invented an interesting villain, I just hope we don’t see a misuse of it later down the track. Every writer knows that everything-was-a-dream is a really, really weak premise!4 June 2017 at 08:24 #58471
@tardigrade Makes sense but I don’t think that accounts for why the Doctor didn’t even address the possibility of just taking Bill off-world after he’d spoken to Missy. If breaking the connection was the key, wouldn’t that have happened if she was on, you know, another planet? Or just in the TARDIS itself?4 June 2017 at 06:57 #58468
“Missy’s weepy remorse scene is an act – pul-ea-ase. Is the Doctor actually falling for it, though?”
I’m interested to see where this Missy stuff is going, (obviously!), especially since I can’t shake this feeling that the Doctor’s promise to “guard this body for 1000 years” was somehow a reference to himself. I did wonder if he managed to use the device to kill Missy to somehow transfer something of himself to her, since she had just asked him to teach her to be good. Is this remorse a reaction to a foreign empathy that’s been grafted onto her personality? And, if he has done this, and Missy is somehow “turning into the Doctor”, would that still count as an execution? Has he killed her metaphorically? Just a bonkers theory for now, but I’m very eager to see how this plays out.
I tend to agree with you though, I don’t think long-term redemption is quite Missy’s cup of tea.4 June 2017 at 06:48 #58466
@blenkinsopthebrave I’m not sure but if anyone is in need of a site that doesn’t require login and, thus, might allow sneaky access, our Australian broadcasts are online. http://iview.abc.net.au/
I didn’t mind this three-parter. Good aliens, another foiled plot to take over the world. The idea of them having the means to create an artificial reality has me a bit worried since it smacks too much of ‘it was all just a dream’, so hopefully we’ve seen the last of them and this little story arc can stand on its own.
There was one thing that really bothered me though and the only thing that’s stopping me from outright claiming it made the whole plot kind of stupid is that I’m not entirely certain where the TARDIS was for those 6 months. I need to rewatch it. However, if Bill was the key to everything, it bothered me a lot that nobody seemed to raise the possibility of “well, let’s just take her some place else until everything wears off”. Anyone able to elaborate why, I have to assume I missed something otherwise it seems daft to me.3 June 2017 at 14:58 #58427
@missrori It is likely true that a lot of my weariness is still directed at Season 8, which is just another reason for me to give Season 9 another shot. I am happy I decided not to be a grouch and gave Season 10 a chance whilst it’s actually airing instead of waiting, even though this way I have to deal with the frustration of not being able to binge-watch it! I know this Season has its own arc but it feels less reliant on it than the past couple. I’ve enjoyed every episode so far and I probably haven’t said that since maybe Season 7.3 June 2017 at 11:08 #58410
@missy I will admit Season 9 had moments of splendor. Heaven Sent may be Capaldi’s finest, but I suspect, for me at least, it’s because it was just that; Capaldi’s. Don’t get me wrong, when Clara entered the show in Smith’s final run, I loved her. I enjoyed The Impossible Girl arc. But, for me, there became a twisted dynamic where she took over the show and then the eventual payout just didn’t resonate with me the way I had hoped. I should not have been glad when a character I loved so much to start with left.
That being said, I will be sad to see Capaldi go and I do want to rewatch all his episodes now that I’m not waiting to try and figure out how all the Clara/Danny stuff fits in, or how Clara’s departure was actually going to pan out. I suspect I will find more things to treasure, but only because I’ll be ignoring all the nonsense that got in the way of it being his show. At least in my eyes.3 June 2017 at 10:31 #58406
Well, I disappeared for a long time, both because I’ve been extremely busy and also somewhat unwell, but also it has to be said because I just stopped enjoying Who. Season 9 was arduous, but gosh I’m enjoying Season 10! I’m glad we’ve found our way back to a Doctor/Companion dynamic where the Doctor is front and centre. Loving Bill!7 December 2015 at 06:39 #48941
@countscarlioni Thanks for that, I figured it out when my brain started working. It’s those bootstrap paradoxes at work, I keep forgetting that the first “Claras” we met were considered echoes by the narrative and not Clara Prime!6 December 2015 at 08:24 #48793
I found this riveting. At the moment, I’m still processing my feelings about it, as well as trying to determine if there are any dangling loose-ends that still need answering, but my first impression was that it was an exciting way to resolve things for now.
I remember reading comments, back when Smith left, that his goodbye to Clara was somehow drastically disrespectful; I don’t think we can ever claim now that the character hasn’t been given her just desserts. Has there ever been another companion that he has risked so much for? That in itself makes me want to believe there is more to Clara yet, that Me’s theorising about his connection to Earth might hold further explanation.
The Doctor: The last I heard, he stole the moon and the President’s wife.
Clara: Was she, erm… Was she nice, the President’s wife?
The Doctor: Ah, well, that was a lie put about by the Shabogans. It was the President’s daughter. I didn’t steal the moon, I lost it…
Of course, this is set-up to sound like Hartnell’s Doctor and, presumably, Susan. And it fits, without question. I don’t really get the moon reference here, is this referencing something from Hartnell’s time that I don’t recall or something thrown in to either be nothing or something, as Moffat loves doing?
On the other hand, with the slight-of-tongue in this episode, (“It’s Me” indeed), could it be possible that The Doctor is referring to himself and the fact that he’s about to steal Clara? The General did say Gallifrey was at his command, and referred to him as Lord President when arguing with him about Clara. Perhaps he is about to steal his own daughter, and whilst that is a very old theory that might just be wishful thinking on my part, I am still trying to explain why Clara. He sat on a cloud for a very long time and mourned Amy and Rory and they were family. 4.5 billion years and the entire universe risked for Clara? Why? I know they were close, but The Doctor and Sarah-Jane were close. The Doctor and Rose were very close. The Doctor and River were exceptionally close. He’s accepted loss before, why not now?
It just seems very….father-ish to me.
One thing I’m confused about; why did they both say Missy brought them together? I’m a bit lost about that bit. Still, we have Missy’s tidbit about having a daughter, and now we have a second Time Lord regenerating into a Time Lady and that honestly felt really, somehow, deliberate.
Is The Doctor Clara’s…mother? o.o Turning the universe upside-down to save her offspring? WAS HARTNELL NOT THE FIRST?
My brain is hurting!30 November 2015 at 20:07 #48332
@juniperfish THANK YOU. A friend sent me that painting and I’ve been searching for the artist but wasn’t sure where to start. I absolutely agree and was at the point of asking it to be removed if I couldn’t find who created it, thanks for your help!
@puroandson Hello! I also didn’t cry, I was too shell-shocked for that. I am still staggered by how well this episode was carried by Capaldi, by himself with very little support for the whole time. After sort of side-lining him a bit last series, I’m so glad he was given this opportunity.30 November 2015 at 06:30 #48295
I just watched it again, and I still have too many feels!29 November 2015 at 12:55 #48196
I am heartbroken. I loved it. I may never forgive it. To have churned out the most powerful episode this season, in my opinion, on the back of a companion’s death, with just the lead actor and a seriously terrifying monster carrying the entire storyline…
Capaldi; you sodding genius.
That’s as much as I have the brain capacity to say. This one punched me in the gut.26 November 2015 at 08:31 #47917
@puroandson Welcome back, and with a new addition! Hello, Son of Puro! Great to have you here, and great to have you back, Puro.22 November 2015 at 05:37 #47479
So quick question; is there any reason that the events of this episode can’t have happened prior to the Zygon episodes? I am wondering if we are about to witness that long month The Doctor referred to when he thought Clara was dead.22 November 2015 at 01:19 #47468
@pedant That would be interesting to see play out. The Doctor does seem a little ‘odd’ around Clara, for want of a better word. And I am still hung up on the fact that he just left her body in the street. lol There wasn’t a word of what to do with her, how to contact her family, nothing. And at the end of it, we see Rigsy painting the TARDIS in Clara’s honour but, again, what happened to Clara? Put inside a stasis pod? Or was there, as you say, nothing to deal with because she’s already been dead for quite some time? Intriguing!22 November 2015 at 01:04 #47466
@purofilion No harm done. 🙂 Left to the mercy of printed word to convey our meaning, things often come across as a little extreme. I meant my words gently, for I respect you greatly and only meant to point out to you the slippery slope. I am not offended, and if my words seemed overly combative, then I apologise. I can only assure that they were not meant as an attack, my usual intent is to broker peace though I can get a bit verbose about it. I would also likely not seek to intervene unless I cared about the person involved. I can see you were hurt by what was said so feel free to drop me a private line if you want to chat about it! I promise I will listen without judgement.22 November 2015 at 00:33 #47463
@supernumerary Damnit, she did too! Well, Clara’s body was still mysteriously never dealt with, so I can dream! Regeneration unseen perhaps? lol22 November 2015 at 00:21 #47460
@purofilion A tad harsh, perhaps. It’s fine to disagree but I didn’t read much into Geronimo’s post that warranted blatant attack. Perhaps a little inelegant in choice of words, but I also get the essence of what he/she meant, which I don’t think intended to be taken quite so badly as you did. Be careful that, in your attempts to preserve what we have here, that you don’t inadvertently become what we seek to keep out. As it stands, your reaction seems far more offensive than his/her thoughts on the episode.
Speak kindly to each other, folks. This was an emotional episode.
However, I can’t help but feel there is more to be explained. Whilst I am not suggesting that what Rigsy stands for isn’t as important and deserving of preservation as Clara, her story has far more invested in it than his, which is what I think Geronimo meant. I hope we find out more, and I am wondering if Ashildr has used her second immortality grant yet. It seems that Clara, in these conditions, might finally be a worthy recipient, maybe? It seems a little strange to me that The Doctor just left Clara there in the street, his own reaction lacked the finality of her passing somehow.
I really enjoyed this episode and I found it deeply moving but I don’t feel closure yet and I’m impatient already for next week to be here!15 November 2015 at 04:28 #46963
@slashum What a shame you found the time to join us right when you found the one episode you don’t like! Thankfully, since you seem to have enjoyed the others, perhaps you can join our discussions on them. We like a lively conversation, and welcome any new bonkers theories, so welcome! Hopefully you will enjoy the rest of the series, a little blip once in a while can be easily ignored if the rest is up-to-scratch.
I just watched this and I feel like I need to watch it again. This episode is a little odd and I still have no idea what’s going on, and the trailer for next week went in no way towards explaining anything. Still, something has been set in motion, I look forward to seeing what it is!11 November 2015 at 12:05 #46787
@tommo Yep, exactly. From memory, what we get is her collapsing in The Doctor’s arms and then, whammo, that’s it. Next we see of her, she’s riding a motorbike and teaching a storm and able to open the TARDIS with a click of her fingers. And they’ve never really spoken about it since. We have no idea what state she was in when she woke up, how long it took for her to recover, whether or not she retains any memories of her ‘other selves’. It was such a massive revelation, the culmination of an entire season’s story arc, and then it just seemed to vanish. I understand that sometimes things just need to be resolved but I’m not sure things actually were; they just created more questions.
(Incidentally, if Clara is a future Doctor, does that explain why the TARDIS has never liked her? It does so like to kick up a stink when he crosses his own timestream.)9 November 2015 at 08:07 #46647
@geoffers I just logged in to find out if anyone else had picked up on that line about Clara not leaving your head once she’s in there. On the surface, you accept it as a poetic way of referencing her ability to appeal to him in that pivotal Moment, but it’s a bit too word-crafted to be just that, I think.
Notice the complete and utter lack of any reference to her jumping into his timestream since it happened. No mention of how she managed it, how she fared after it, no real reference even to how much she recalls. Then we have our bootstrap paradox and the fact that The Doctor has been set up, via Missy’s storytelling, as someone who pulls solutions out of thin air because he always believes he will win. Did he, lying there on the floor in the presence of his dead wife, with the Great Intelligence flooding his timeline, concoct his most brilliant solution yet? Has Clara not, in all of this, been established as the repeating force that keeps turning up time and time again to ‘save the Doctor’, even though our story-time with Missy points out that he is usually very good at doing that himself.
“There’s only me here, that’s the point.”
We have been saying she seems to be growing more and more like him, and he’s suddenly learned how to hug.25 October 2015 at 07:30 #45430
Just finished watching it. From an arc point of view, I found it interesting and I thought the two main performances were excellent. However, as a story? It’s another one of those where some shambling half-explained, quickly-resolved menace is tacked onto an episode that really only exists in order to further meta-story development. Whilst I guess there is nothing wrong with that, I just found it a bit of a shame because the other episodes this season have done a much better job of having a riveting story that the big plot twisted nicely around.
I liked it but only for its poignant philosophy and the dangled promise of bigger things to come, and that seems a little bit sad when everything up to now had been enjoyable for its own sake.18 October 2015 at 00:44 #44976
I will add that for a moment, I thought his line about being sick of losing was going to end in being sick of losing Clara. I think I have said since the start of last season that, whilst I do kind of hope that Clara goes on to a higher purpose rather than being left to a Sarah-Jane existence back on Earth, part of me feels she should die. That there is somehow something right about it. Or at least change. I’m not sure I’ve ever been rooting for a companion to suffer this much since Mel. 😀 Or possibly Tegan, but I’m Australian and surely permitted…18 October 2015 at 00:27 #44973
I really enjoyed this! Again, this season continues to somehow tell its stories with a little more polish to suit my tastes. Perhaps I’m just a sucker for a good arc thread, and there seems to be a bigger one this time around than ‘who is Missy and why is she stealing dead people?’
Did anyone watch this thinking the whole time that Maisie’s character was a Claricle or is that just me? Or possibly an ancestor, at least. I kept looking at the similarities between them, and now I’m all hung-up about who it might have been that Maisie gives her immortality serum to… A daughter?
Is Maisie Missy, gone bonkers after years of not being able to die? lol
Also, I know the character isn’t called Maisie, my head is too full for minor details right now!17 October 2015 at 01:51 #44892
@ichabod Oh, I certainly wasn’t asking if I was on the right track with what’s actually going on, just whether or not I’d translated what people’s theories about it were. lol. I think it’s safe to say, by now, that predicting Moffat’s massive arcs accurately is troublesome at the very least.
@lisa @purofilion I am pretty reasonably sure most of what I say is mad, but I’m usually in good company. 😉 It does seem kind of likely to me that there is a Clara/Doctor/River thing that harks back to that pivotal point. What it turns out to be remains to be seen!16 October 2015 at 23:18 #44880
Morning, fellow Whovians! Another day until the next installment! Doctor Who has become, yet again, the only television show I actually anticipate.
After some odd dreams last night, I feel like I may have started to piece together some of the theories floating around but I wanted to check. A couple of times, I have read that Clara might actually be The Doctor and I never really picked up on why people were thinking that or what their reasoning for it was. Now that we’ve had this idea of a bootstrap paradox introduced, as well as the dedication of time to explaining how The Doctor always wins because he believes he will, (complete with actual flashback scenario), am I right in thinking that one of the theories is that Clara didn’t actually exist until The Doctor created her, perhaps with ghost River’s help, at the moment when she entered his timestream? That somehow her bootstrap paradox is that she actually came into existence THEN but, in doing so and jumping into his timestream, she essentially set up her existence throughout time and space to account for him meeting her earlier on and then setting about the chain of events that lead to him being threatened by The Great Intelligence in the first place? If this is the theory, then I can kind of get why people either think she is the ‘child’ of River and The Doctor, or possibly just a piece of The Doctor himself. His ‘last minute solution’ win.
If I am way off the mark, please let me know. Lol. Takes a while for me to catch up sometimes!