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24 January 2016 at 17:46 #50413
It occurs to me that the mysterious Kettering shoot, noted upthread by @sirclockface is still unexplained….
24 January 2016 at 17:44 #50412Silurian two-parter, it raises its head. Look at the Silurian scientist. Portrayed as a Mengele figure solely to create a good cliff-hanger and then instantly transformed into a kindly pacifist,
This is my main concern. I was unable to watch more the 10-12 episode of the Battlestar Galactica reboot (despite loving the mini-series) for exactly this problem: Moore was arbitrarily change characterisation to make whatever didactic point he wanted to get across this week. I can’t recall exactly when I bailed, but it was when I realised I didn’t give a stuff about any of the characters because they would vary so much from week-to-week, with no sense of causality.
(It occurs to me, btw, that Chibnall might have wanted to move back to Spring and that’s why it is delayed, since I presume he has to finish Broadchurch first.)
24 January 2016 at 13:45 #50406Which is why the argument that Broadchurch was saved by the amazing acting isn’t really valid.
It is also a straw man.
Broadchurch was brilliant, character-centred drama, which the fairly slight plot supported well.
Broadchurch 2 was a train wreck that never hit its stride because it relied on too many absurdities to sustain willing suspension of disbelief – and all storytelling relies on that..
Nobody here – or anywhere else that I’ve seen – has complained about the strong female characters (another straw man from upthread). The problems is the fundamental flaws of structure and execution of the story. We we never allowed to give a stuff about the victims and it had 2 new characters who were both introduced as brilliant, who then behaved in a quite incredible (as in, lacking in credibility) stupidity.
And then there’s the fastest recovery from heart surgery ever. Lancet articles will be written about it.
But it was sustained by the main leads giving it everything.
We can only hope that he pulls a Highlander and airbrushes 2 out of history.
My hope comes from the fact that I have liked his Who episodes. 42 was fun for what it was (a knowing spoof of 24), DOAS was a hoot and the Silurian 2 parter intelligent and thoughtful – and, as you say, he writes strong characters. What I haven’t seen yet (because no opportunity within Who, and severe doubts outwith) is enough evidence that he can maintain a character in a credible way.
But he’s got the gig now, so back him and let’s have fun finding out.
24 January 2016 at 13:25 #50404Quite apart from anything else we don’t want to become the Chibnall equivalents of wailing anti-SM brigade. Let’s judge him on the work.
I think this is a point that cannot be made often enough.
23 January 2016 at 17:48 #50365There’s nothing any writer can do about the stupidity of the networks (but anyway, bringing Marsters in was a condition of renewing Angel).
And also, what @jimthefish said. What both showed had was liberal use of the word “quantum” as general purpose handwaveium.
23 January 2016 at 15:07 #50357Courtesy of @sirclockface again. If you haven’t seen this before it is glorious.
23 January 2016 at 14:53 #50356I doubt we’ll see a female Doctor next time either.
Well, having worked with her on Broadchurch 2, he could get Charlotte Rampling in. That’s be a safe pair of hands.
*Whistles innocently*
23 January 2016 at 00:30 #50341Whoa!
Steven’s final series will air on BBC One in Spring 2017 and there will be a Christmas Special in 2016.
So no news eps in 2016?
23 January 2016 at 00:27 #50340Buffy is a show that really rewards being a spoiler-phobe. There are several absolutely stunning episodes that are a real treat when seen for the first time, and some plot twists that will leave your jaw not so much on the floor as in the basement. Don’t listen to commentaries until you have seen the lot, ‘cos in those days writers didn’t know better than to avoid them.
But I’ll bet it grabs you from the very first cold opening. That, and the first time I heard the theme immediately after, made me the show’s bitch.
23 January 2016 at 00:22 #50338Have the same reservations – would much prefer Toby Whithouse – and entirely agree on Broadchurch 2. It was a masterclass in adjusting the universe to fit the story, which is bass ackwards and rather spoiled the understated humanity of the first series. But, he deserves a chance and we can also hope that Moff goes out on an even higher note than the stunning S9.
I agree with your point, but EVEN IF they declare something as canon, if they want to change their minds later it’s always “time can be rewritten” or “The Doctor lies” or some “Deus ex machina” mechanizations.
You’ve outlined the easiest trap for weak writers to fall into.
The reality in the Whoniverse is that re-writing time has consequences (and as Amy found out, is not as easy as showing someone their genius) and Moffat, if he learnt one thing from Whedon, learnt that events have consequences. The upshot of this is that the fanboys would rip a writer to shreds if they did anything too arbitrary. Bearing in mind how strident the wailing end of the fanboy spectrum gets even when they don’t act in an arbitrary way, and I think we would need a new volume knob.
You should also look for @bluesqueakpip‘s blog post on Deus Ex Machinas to fully grasp how astutely both Moffat and RTD avoided them.
22 January 2016 at 11:55 #50322I am very happy to never have any resolution to the mystery.
Likewise, but there is no shortage of anal plot obsessives (who I doubt this will mollify, because they will never be mollified) and it is interesting that Moff is happy to engage at all. Many writers won’t. But also his “it ain’t canon ’til it’s canon” reminds us that, like RTD, he tries not to back future writers into corners – nor be backed into a corner.
21 January 2016 at 12:40 #50304Moffat on the Orson Pink issue (link found by @sirclockface): here.
I like it becuase there are no unecessary assumptions: you just have to suppose that Clara would be a decent person and talk to his family. That Clara is decent is something there is boundless evidence for. Moffat rarely spells out the obvious (I suspect on the principle that the hard-of-learning are beyond help).
20 January 2016 at 00:17 #50271Yeah – fair, enough. Apols.
Absolutely serious about reading back through the thread though (which is what I spent part of the PM doing today and was reminded of how deep the conversation goes here, so was maybe a bit more twitchy that usual).
Was going to go back and clear it, but leave it as penance.
20 January 2016 at 00:00 #50269And one thing I’m really good at is giving as good as I get.
Actually, you’re not. Repeating stuff said to you back is just exceptionally lazy plagiarism.
I’ll try to participate some more.
It just a pity it took three whacks with the clue stick.
Now I really do recommend going back and reading through this thread, because you will see how dull, crushingly unoriginal and trollish-looking your debut post made you look. As I said, this isn’t Youtube.
Entirely up to you, of course.
19 January 2016 at 23:46 #50266That and “Stop, Luke and listen”.
(Is it me or does Luke/ Darth sound disconcertingly like Tennant?
19 January 2016 at 19:56 #50254Be careful about laying down standards
Says the poster who looked up the dictionary definition of ‘camp’….and then pointed at Peter Capaldi.
Jeebus, you’re not even making sport of this. To repeat for the slow of clue-getting:
Seriously. Read the thread and see the sort of standards we aspire to around here. ‘Cos this ain’t Youtube.
Also, look around you. There’s actually intelligent discussion going on, right now, but you you are too busy being outraged to partake.
Entirely up to you, of course, but “Stampy-footed teen who’s not used to be talked back to” is not a flattering look and it doesn’t make your penis longer.
19 January 2016 at 18:06 #50251@ichabod Isn’t the half human theory sort of canon with the 8th Doctor?
Somewhere in AG Who The Doctor has specifically stated that he lied about that (can’t recall where off hand).
But anyway, we have a Time-Lord-Human hybrid. The human half was called Clara. Gestalt, innit?
and it’s pretty damn obvious that he can and will make more money in America if/when he steps down. There are very few people out there who’d be prepared to make that kind of sacrifice for the love of a show.
Absolutely spot on.
19 January 2016 at 16:20 #50249Oh that is just glorious!
All the women are too cocky. OK. Yeah.
Methinks somebody has ishoos.
19 January 2016 at 11:45 #50240@ichabod @puroandson
I keep seeing ACD and thinking “…something..compulsive disorder.”
Which feels about right :).
19 January 2016 at 11:43 #5023919 January 2016 at 00:38 #50222Oh, yeah.
19 January 2016 at 00:25 #50218There are two ways you can prosper in this forum:
1) Have something interesting and pertinent to say;
Striiiike 1
2) Root what you say in a theory of literature or at the very least a clear grasp of storytelling, its purpose and role;
Striiiike 2.
3) Be witty
Striiike 3. Yer out!
I realise that technically that three ways. So sue me.
Seriously. If all you have is the ARSE-laden ramblings of a hormonal teenager, then prepare to get used to us pointing at you and laughing.
Seriously. Read the thread and see the sort of standards we aspire to around here. ‘Cos this ain’t Youtube.
PS You will have to search the forum to look up ARSE. Or, you know, look in a mirror. That might help.
19 January 2016 at 00:06 #50215Christ on a bike, 2016 is really taking the piss now. Glenn Frey at 67:
17 January 2016 at 16:10 #50193@puroandson
MrTARDIS
I may have chipped in…
17 January 2016 at 01:39 #50189@puroandson
The Freshman was filmed at SMG’s teeny-weeny height to emphasise how overwhelmed she felt.
Buffy was one of a handful of shows that defined how stories would be told for a generation (The West Wing is another obvious one and maybe ER): fast paced, fast talking and totally confident in its stance and the metaphors being deployed.
In an earlier generation it was Moonlighting, Hill Street Blues and St Elsewhere.
And even with its slightly chaotic early period, it oozed that confidence for anyone attentive enough to see it. That’s why it sticks and bears such repeat viewing (and, Puricle, seriously – get a grip lad. Restless is genius). That’s my theory anyway. When an apparently throwaway episode like The Witch turns out to be crucial to a show’s directions years later, you know there is something cool occurring.
If you have Netflix you might want to check out Sens8(1). It is very bold and takes a full 3 episodes to get fully rolling, but totally worth it. The episode that features the 4 Non Blond’s song is a corker. I hope that the likes of Netflix and Amazon Prime bring a bit more such risk taking.
If you never watched Dead Like Me, I recommend that too. Think it is on Netflix.
(1) Contains some hot lesbo action involving a former Who companion.
17 January 2016 at 01:11 #50188It is on Netflix in the UK. Not sure about elsewhere.
16 January 2016 at 23:02 #50184@puroandson
Ah! The red pants of moral ambiguity. Context is your friend!
(730 days until Buffy self-sacrifies to save Dawn – which is why the clock is wrong during Restless, at the end of S4, since it should be 3-6-5, which is impossible). The pants of sacrifice are non-leather.
(Its Xander (short for Alexander) – and it seems reasonable to Buffy’s excuse word confusion on grounds of apocalypse)
‘Sniffed werewolf’ sounds obscene. Just sayin’
On a different topic: When feeling a little blue, On The Beach (1959, Gregory Peck and Ava Gardner) is not cheer-me-up viewing, most set in Oz. Obvious with hindsight, really.
According to po-mo there are no wrong threads.
16 January 2016 at 20:00 #50182@puroandson
I got the Pants thing!
I believe it was Buffy The Vampire Slayer herself who put it best when she said: “Hamnoo?”
15 January 2016 at 20:07 #5016615 January 2016 at 01:46 #50140@puroandson
Most excellent words, Puricle.
And for you both: Galaxy Quest is an utter delight and I suspect you will not find anybody hereabouts unwilling to recommend it.
His Rickman-ness reads Sonnet 130:
And this gets to the nub of why it s matters (and, indeed, why this place matters)
Thinking about how we mourn artists we've never met. We don't cry because we knew them, we cry because they helped us know ourselves.
— Juliette (@ElusiveJ) January 11, 2016
14 January 2016 at 13:47 #50133Indeed. And let’s not forget The Sheriff of Nottingham. With a spoon.
14 January 2016 at 13:21 #50130As fine a comedy performance as you will ever see, and able to turn it on a sixpence:
14 January 2016 at 13:04 #50129Christ on a bike. Alan Rickman now. Would have made an awesome Doctor and an even better villain.
13 January 2016 at 13:48 #50111@puroandson
God I am hard to please!

I blame the drugs.
13 January 2016 at 01:33 #50101And then there’s this, which made me LOL:
12 January 2016 at 17:25 #50094You have to bear in mind that 11 had full knowledge of what he was doing at Lake Silencio, – it was him who was shot, and he who was the masterplanner – and specifically he knew who River was.
But in the Library, 10 had no clue of the full context other than that River knew his name, so 12 had to guide him as best he could – so it had to be obvious (How come River has a sonic?) and simple (remembering the neural link).
12 January 2016 at 11:39 #50092@puroandson
I wish! No longer live locally. It was done by someone at the Abbey. Very moving. There’s another angle I’ve seen that runs a few seconds past the end and there were obviously a fair few people in the building, from the applause.
11 January 2016 at 19:32 #50083This, from St Albans Cathedral (or The Abbey as us Albanistas call it) is rather lovely.
11 January 2016 at 17:55 #50081Gathered some thoughts on this: Rebels, heroes and genies (includes link to a hilariously pompous Martin Amis piece from 1973).
11 January 2016 at 14:41 #50080I just stumbled upon that performance (after already posing here). It is a stunning rendition.
11 January 2016 at 14:20 #50078@sirclockface @mccottonthedoctorfan
It’s worth noting that, prior to the reboot, the BBC – insofar as it expressed an opinion – considered the audio adventures canon.
11 January 2016 at 14:14 #50076Shocking news. His songs and their allusive lyrics get a life of there own – as this one, which is fundamentally about making out on the Berlin Wall in full view of the East German guards (a bit of a West Berliner youths’ thing at the time).
But seeing this on Top of the Pops 2 on the mid-1990s, then realising I saw it first time round, was what made me accept I was no longer a youth:
8 January 2016 at 22:02 #50051There is a Sherlock thread (safest to keep things segregated).
8 January 2016 at 13:37 #50046In the middle of an otherwise excellent piece about Chandler and SF, this splendid piece of pseud’s-cornery from China Méiville:
“The various manly Virgils who appear ex nihilo to escort Marlowe through his oneiric purgatories are not characters, but eloquent opacities in man-shape: much more interesting.”
4 January 2016 at 00:23 #49977Even in Victorian England, Doyle needed Holmes to make some kind of personal connection. Watson, whether Doyle realised it consciously or not, was the perfect man to make a personal connection with Holmes. Because, as Doctor Watson, he was allowed to care.
He was allowed to tell Holmes he wasn’t eating enough, needed to sleep, shouldn’t be doing drugs, needed a holiday, all the stuff that good friends do – because Watson could always retreat from ‘speaking as a friend’ to ‘that’s my professional opinion.’
While I don’t dispute any of this, it is worth noting that Watson speaks from a place of being every bit as damaged as Holmes, but in a very different way.
(c/w with George Smiley who I once saw rather well described as “Brilliant spy, useless man” – but he had no true confident (at least not before Karla cross over) – and come to think of it, nor does Mycroft)
2 January 2016 at 16:34 #49953And this is my comment
At which point Moriarty appears, because Moriarty has become Sherlock’s internal personification of all that is wrong with Sherlock.
Plus, there is a theory that Moriarty was always a Holmes fiction – I think Mark Lawson wrote in the Graun ages ago about this. In the books they were, I think, never seen together (so to speak). Moff/Gatt changed this by having him seen by Watson, but wouldn’t surprise me if they go for a riff on “If Moriatry doesn’t exist, Holmes will have to invent him.”
Am not sufficient a Sherlock geek to know how well this theory is supported by the text, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Moffat is aware of it and having a bit of fun.
2 January 2016 at 03:33 #49936I yeah, the trope is far (far!) from new, but Normal Again was a very specific chain yank of a fanbase which set some off in howls of outrage that Sunnydale might not be real after all…
2 January 2016 at 03:22 #49935@bluesqueakpip – what @jimthefish says.
That will also let me expand on the comment I made in response to your Graun piece.
1 January 2016 at 23:01 #49924The jiggery pokery at the end will appeal to anyone (like me) who enjoyed Buffy 6×17. Or, indeed, anyone who doesn’t mind a bit of a leg-pull.
1 January 2016 at 22:38 #49922Well I for one thoroughly enjoyed that little head fuck.
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