BBC Approved Spoilers
31 January 2017 at 17:29 #5533231 January 2017 at 23:24 #55342janetteB @janetteb
Cool. We just watched the first Ice Warriors story the other night. (Have been passing the time with some very old Who.)
Janette6 March 2017 at 18:27 #55747
Had a feeling this would happen for Capaldi’s final season but can I just say Yas!!!6 March 2017 at 18:39 #55748
This is the best news I have heard about series 10 so far! If only they could be truly radical and film it in black and white!6 March 2017 at 18:50 #55749
@blenkinsopthebrave — that would indeed be awesome but going by the picture they’ve managed to make them look still pretty impressively sinister-looking while sticking to a design that’s 50 years old. They look medical, which is what I always said they should be…
I’m really looking forward to seeing this.6 March 2017 at 19:14 #55750
Yes, indeed, they have captured the look really well. And I can always turn the colour down on the TV when I watch it!
Given that Hartnell’s last adventure, The Tenth Planet, also featured the Mondasian Cybermen is it just me, or is there something Hartnell-esque about the way Capaldi is dressed?6 March 2017 at 19:24 #55751
If my last post was too spoilery, please feel free to delete it.6 March 2017 at 19:47 #55752
Think we’re safe spoiler-wise on this thread. And yes, something quite Hartnell about him. That’s something I witter on about in my long-delayed blog post. I think there’s an occasional Hartnell vibe about Capaldi — the crombie and the checked trousers last series seemed to be a riff on that in a funky hoody kind of way. Tho in that pic his outfit looks suspiciously like the one Bowie wore in the Blackstar video too…6 March 2017 at 20:20 #55753
Squee! This is a very interesting direction for the season finale to go in — I’d been thinking they’d do something with Daleks and/or Gallifrey. Maybe they’re saving those for the final Christmas special? 😉 But I know I’m excited!8 March 2017 at 01:29 #55756AlexWho @alexwho
Peter is getting his dream story during his last series finale.
Great way to send him out.13 March 2017 at 20:51 #55793
Brand new trailer, with some blink and you’ll miss them villains (including those from Mondas). Plus maybe the odd twist on some of the old favourites and new.13 March 2017 at 21:22 #55794
Blimey. indyref and new trailer on the same day. Have to say even in that briefest of snapshots the new (old) Cybermen look great. Proper scary.13 March 2017 at 23:14 #5579513 March 2017 at 23:56 #55796toinfinityandbepond @toinfinityandbepond
Missy reacts to the new trailer14 March 2017 at 02:57 #55797Anonymous @
Oh shiiiiit. It was hilarious. But then I read the comments, didn’t I? 🙁
A gent, F.R. wrote about how “all Moff’s scripts” are rubbish (including Sherlock) and I gave him a what for!
@jimthefish I know you’d say “tut tut” but it’s me (Puro!) and I couldn’t help it. The guy had scores of ‘likes’ and someone needs to defend Moffat and Gattis! Eeek.
But thank you for uploading this @toinfinityandbepond -the trailer and the bits and pieces we’ve seen assure the Puro and Thane family will love it!
Puro -let out on her own 😈15 March 2017 at 00:59 #55798
@thane15 You’ve got guts Puro! Hooray for you standing up for what’s right! 😉 Whenever I read anti-Twelve era comments “out there” my weak heart crumbles but I can’t bring myself to chew others out in “public” on anything. I don’t have much backbone.
I’m excited by the new trailer too! <34 April 2017 at 19:15 #55966
And here was me thinking someone would beat me to it this time. Yet another trailer. And the last shot of this one is, eh, interesting!4 April 2017 at 21:38 #55967
I suspect this will be Moffat’s last Big Tease, although I don’t think we’re going to get a straightforward regeneration this time and there will be something, um, unconventional about it this time.
But don’t those Cybermen look great.5 April 2017 at 05:38 #55970
OK, I give up…unconventional in what way?
Cybermen do, indeed, look great. Nardole, not so sure about.5 April 2017 at 11:50 #55971
I just suspect we won’t get a straightforward heroic sacrifice in a finale type of regeneration a la Smith and Tennant and that Moffat will pull out something a little more off-beam than that. What that might be, I have no idea. 12 has been less heroic and more cerebral and unpredictable anyway so I wouldn’t be surprised if this is reflected in his regeneration.
What I’d really like to see is an offscreen regeneration a la Troughton > Pertwee but doubt we’d get that. Just imagine the fun of competing or conflicting theories of how the Doctor actually did regenerate a la Reichenbach Fall.
Also the teaser in the trailer is almost certainly a red herring and not how the regen actually happens, I’ll wager.5 April 2017 at 15:48 #55972
I like the idea of an off-screen regeneration, but agree that it is unlikely. What I would like even more would be for the new Doctor to be kept a secret until the regeneration. Difficult in these days of social media but not impossible. After all, if they can keep the end of Broadchurch under wraps it should be possible on Doctor Who as well.
Another difference may depend on whether Bill is a continuing companion or if the slate is wiped completely clean for Chibnall. One potentially cool idea would be to have Missy witness the regeneration, and the new Doctor would begin with a battle of wills with his (her?) oldest friend from the moment of regeneration.5 April 2017 at 17:08 #55973
@blenkinsopthebrave — I agree a new Doctor who’s a total surprise would be great but wasn’t even possible in the pre-internet days, so it’s unlikely now. Unless … unless as this trailer seems to hint, that the regeneration will happen before Christmas. Perhaps what we’ll get is a Usual Suspects type thing with the regeneration happening early in the series and the rest of the stories some kind of arrangement of flashbacks about how it happened. Though maybe that runs the risk of being a bit too Trial of a Timelord-ey.
I do suspect that Bill is a one-series-only job. Which is a shame because going by the trailer, she looks as if she’s going to be great. And I’ll admit I was a bit wary of Nardole as a permanent fixture to begin with but I now think that the dynamic might actually work. That trailer fills me with high hopes that Moffat is going to go out on a high.
I do like the idea of a Missy/new Doctor face off as a regeneration story but again fear that it might be a bit too Time and the Rani for comfort. But I definitely have a suspicion that we’re going to see something slightly out of the ordinary this time.5 April 2017 at 17:25 #55975
Ah, yes, Time and the Rani. But wait, that could work! It could be call-back to Who history, and a challenge for Chibnall to do it better. Well, maybe not that much of a challenge, when you think back to Time and the Rani.
I also like the flashback idea and the Trial of a Timelord reference. Who knows, perhaps Chibnall is going to channel the John Nathan Turner years!
Hmm, on second thoughts, let’s hope not…5 April 2017 at 21:20 #55977Mersey @mersey6 April 2017 at 17:03 #55996Joshamus @joshamus
soooo…am I gonna be the first to mention it? John Simm back as The Master…with Missy as well…this should be interesting…6 April 2017 at 20:38 #55997
Well, when I saw the post above, I wasn’t sure if this was BBC approved or not, but:
by golly, it is.
We have had The Five Doctors, and lots of multiple Doctors, so The Two Masters actually sounds pretty cool. Of course, the multiple Doctors always managed to collaborate. Am trying to imagine John Simm’s Master and Michelle Gomez’s Missy collaborating. There is only so much completely insane ego the universe can contain…
Sounds like fun!6 April 2017 at 22:11 #56000Mudlark @mudlark
I have mixed feelings about this. It promises to be a pyrotechnical spectacle 😮 but, whereas Michele Gomez’s Missy is magnificently nuts but nuanced, John Simm’s version of the Master was a little OTT for my taste. Maybe with a different writer we will see something a little more subtle.6 April 2017 at 22:17 #56001Joshamus @joshamus
<p style=”text-align: left;”>@mudlark I actually preferred john simm to Michelle Gomez. Don’t get me wrong, missy is brilliant but I feel like she’s been dumbed down from what the master is supposed to be. John Simm was perfect in that role, he played the part of crazy whilst still maintaining smart and deceitful. I am a little apprehensive about bringing him back but if they are gonna bring back any master it has to be him in my opinion. (Not because the others are dead 😂)</p>7 April 2017 at 02:31 #56005
@blenkinsopthebrave et al–
I must admit a multiple Master story has always been on my Who wishlist so I’m pretty excited by the idea. And it would be nice for Simm to get a reprise for his Master. Plus I’m looking forward to see how the two incarnations behave with each other.
Mondasian Cybermen, Ice Warriors, a regeneration and two Masters. This series is shaping up to be a heady brew indeed….7 April 2017 at 11:15 #56011Mersey @mersey
My imitial thought was ‘No!!! Another spoiler!’. I decided not to watch any trailer or read any news on the new season so I was disappointed that I came across this news on Facebook. But than I thought this is a good news for me. Although I like Michell Gomez’ s portrayal of the Master I feel that Missy is someone like an antihero (like Marvel’s Loki whom I love) not a villain and she is for me like Master’s older sister. I long for cool, cold and cruel Master Missy is too much likeable). I would not describe Simm’s as cold and cool but at least he’s a proper villain.8 April 2017 at 04:16 #56016janetteB @janetteb
Will be interesting to see how John Simm plays the Master with a different writer at the helm. I recall that he was not overly keen on the OTT Master at the time and so I expect he will want to tone down the role a bit.
Janette9 April 2017 at 11:13 #56041tardigrade @tardigrade
The new series is definitely feeling real now.
If there’s a multiple Master storyline, then how about multiple Doctors also and have Capaldi and 13 on-screen together? Opens up some interesting storylines- how about Capaldi’s sacrifice leading to his regeneration is to save his later self. Not even paradoxical I think- just an everyday time loop 🙂
I’m happy enough to see John Simm make another appearance in any case. I didn’t mind the OTT portrayal. It seems appropriate to me that the Master should go off the deep end in some regenerations and have more control in others, and the Simm Master was being driven toward insanity. Somehow I don’t see the Master/Mistress getting on with him/herself. Perhaps John Simm’s regeneration was actually triggered by him getting on Missy’s nerves and her shooting him :-). There would be a subverted symmetry in that.10 April 2017 at 00:47 #56049Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip
Thank you so much for reminding me of Time and The Rani. I’ve been trying to forget that ever since I first watched it. In fact, I think I was trying to forget it while I first watched it.
Okay, Missy and the Master – that’s been on my personal wish list for a bit, but I don’t think I thought it would happen. I agree with @tardigrade, though – the Simm Master was being driven deeper into his insanity, and you often got the impression he didn’t like it. Mind you, this may have been because John Simm didn’t particularly like the script making the Master so OTT, and decided to incorporate it into the character.
Missy, on the other hand, seems perfectly happy being as mad as a box of frogs. Which may be why she’s less ‘villain’ and more ‘anti-hero’. What’s also possible is that the Master blamed the Doctor for whatever happened to him; finding out that it was really Rassillon behind it all meant s/he no longer hated the Doctor.
Ooh, I wonder ‘when’ the Simm Master is going to be from? Mr Saxon? Hoodie Master? Or just after he blasted Rassillon into his next regeneration?10 April 2017 at 19:36 #56065
Personally, I think if they really did intend to regenerate the Doctor prior to the Christmas show, they wouldn’t have teased it in the trailer. I’m in the camp that there’s more to this than meets the eye — that it’s setting up something different. Part of this stems from the fact that Moffat is writing the Christmas show, and it would be weird for him to be the one establishing the personality, etc. of Thirteen when that character’s going to be part of Chibnall’s tenure as showrunner. Also, if Ten and Eleven warranted Christmas grand finales plus additional specials in the lead-up to them, but Twelve doesn’t even get a “last Christmas”, it wouldn’t feel fair to Twelve fans.
Generally, whenever something really big is openly teased these days, it turns out to be more — or less — than meets the eye. Some people initially thought Clara would be the real problem in “Dark Water”/”Death in Heaven” thanks to the trailers; that hid the surprises of Danny’s sudden death at the top of the story and the revelation that Missy was the Master. In Series 9, there were weeks of speculation about who Maisie Williams’ character really was based solely on the “What took you so long, old man?” line (a lot of people wondered if she could be Ace, Susan, etc.). Some even wondered if the Doctor would be the one who regenerated (or just came close to such) in “Hell Bent”, even though we all knew that that couldn’t happen just because “The Husbands of River Song” had long since been announced as a Twelve story! Not to mention that many people didn’t expect “Hell Bent” to be more about the Doctor and Clara’s endgame than his return to Gallifrey, given that it was his first post-Time War visit there. (Until the episode aired, there was still the possibility that the Clara in the diner was an echo.) There’s still some sourness in the fandom over “Hell Bent” not being a colossal space opera.
Also, with regards to regeneration energy, we know that the Doctor can transfer his to others — heck, transferring it to his severed hand helped create the clone of Ten — and that it can save others from death’s door, though not revive the dead altogether. And the Doctor can put off regenerating through force of will…And who’s to say that someone couldn’t try to steal it from the Doctor? So there’s a lot of potential being teased here… 🙂
EDIT: Finally, speaking of Gallifrey…am I the only one who finds it suspicious that it and the other Time Lords haven’t been brought up at all yet? Isn’t he technically a fugitive for abdicating his Lord President post and trying to save Clara? Doesn’t he have some unfinished business with Ohila at least? And I know at least one fan who wants to see an episode with Twelve facing the Weeping Angels…again, why would he not get an opportunity that Ten and Eleven did, considering how popular those villains are?10 April 2017 at 20:00 #56067
it would be weird for him to be the one establishing the personality, etc. of Thirteen when that character’s going to be part of Chibnall’s tenure as showrunner
It would be very odd, I agree, but it’s not unprecedented. Barry Lett’s bedded in Tom Baker’s Doc in Robot before Philip Hinchcliffe took over the reins. But I agree that it’s unlikely to happen this way. I think that shot in the trailer is a big old tease and just a bit of regen energy being released as we’ve seen several times before now. Although I’m still holding out for some weird breaking of regeneration convention maybe taking place.
I have seen several rather spoilerific descriptions of the season end, which would be very, very interesting if true, but which I suspect are probably fanboy wish fulfilment but I do think Moffat will want to go out with a bang.
Ooh, I wonder ‘when’ the Simm Master is going to be from? Mr Saxon? Hoodie Master? Or just after he blasted Rassillon into his next regeneration?
I was wondering that too. I’m hoping that we’re going to get some post End of Time iteration that combines them and gives Simm the opportunity to put his own stamp on the role. I’m also very much hoping that we’re finally going to see a multi-Master story and that it’s not just seeing Simm in flashback — maybe in some scheme against the Doctor launched in his regeneration and coming to fruition in Missy’s. Not a necessarily uncool concept but a waste of an opportunity, if so….10 April 2017 at 21:02 #56068
@jimthefish, Moffat has promised that Saxon and Missy will meet face to face at some point in the story, which seems to be an expansive one, rambling over a three-parter (“Extremis”, “The Pyramid at the End of the World”, and “The Lie of the Land”) — and apparently several time periods and locales.
And the finale two-parter has had its titles released: “World Enough and Time” and “The Doctor Falls”.
But does he fall to something, into something, or what? 😉10 April 2017 at 21:12 #56069
I just thought of something regarding that last episode title, but I can’t edit my last post.
The painting’s correct title was Gallifrey Falls No More…
So “The Doctor Falls”…???11 April 2017 at 05:33 #56082ichabod @ichabod
@missrori And the finale two-parter has had its titles released: “World Enough and Time” and “The Doctor Falls”.
But does he fall to something, into something, or what? 😉
The Doctor Rises; The Doctor Falls. No qualifier is required. I did read somewhere that Moffat said in an interview that the finale was going to be — bloody, or gory, which I presume to mean a bit more gory than Heaven Sent, but still modestly crimson. I doubt it can be too grisly, not enough to kill our Doctor dead, since Capaldi is supposed to get a full episode send-off with the Xmas special.
Damn, I’ll hate to see him go . . .11 April 2017 at 13:21 #56093
I think @arbutus is right that the Doctor will fall only to rise again. Though maybe he’ll be falling off a radio telescope. He does have form in this area…
But here are some further clues about the regeneration and it looks as if PC will be staying until Christmas. Which is fine by me, the longer the better.11 April 2017 at 16:35 #56099
@ichabod and @jimthefish, you’re both probably right. The Doctor’s lives are all about the dizzying highs, the terrifying lows, the creamy middles (to nick from The Simpsons). Wouldn’t be surprised if the season finale is a bit gruesome, given that the whole nature of the Cybermen is on the gruesome side.
I certainly do want Twelve to stay for one “last Christmas” in any case, so that Moffat article is heartening.13 April 2017 at 08:21 #56135
And finally (well, before Saturday), a trailer for the first episode. Moffat has said he wants this to almost be like a reintroduction to Doctor Who (or at least an introduction for newbies) so it’s cheekily called “The Pilot”.13 April 2017 at 23:48 #56142
To add further wild speculation into the regeneration chat — and make me think more than other that they’re going to do something slightly out of the ordinary with this regeneration…27 April 2017 at 17:36 #56798Devilishrobby @devilishrobby
@jimthefish after reading the above article I can’t help but feel they surely can’t be doing what effectively would be a repeat of doing the Tenent/Smith regeneration and beginning 12s regeneration in or at the end of the season 10 finale . In the End of Time we had an admittedly lovely 15-20 minuets of the Doctor revisiting past companions before finally regenerating so there is a precedence that the regeneration process can be extended or prolonged. Thinking about it, that even had its own precedent in the before gap who Tom Baker/ Davidson regen in that the Baker doc seems to be aware he is about to regenerate in the Logopolis Story. However to get back to the original track of the conversation I just feel it would be “sloppy” writing for Moffat as it would mean whatever peril is faced in Capaldi’s final Xmas Special would have no real sense as we and the character would know he is regenerating anyway. I would prefer that the regeneration to come as a “surprise” for Capaldi docs character rather than the end of a procession through the episode if that makes any sense.28 April 2017 at 00:14 #56813
@devilishrobby — Yeah, it sounds a bit like that, doesn’t it, but I don’t think it will be. For one thing, I don’t think there will be a farewell tour a la Tennant, mostly because Capaldi’s Doc has been quite the aloof one and hasn’t made that many significant connections. Only Clara really and he can’t remember her (although I wouldn’t be surprised if she made a brief reappearance in much the same way that Amy did when 11 regenerated.)
But we’ve been told this one is going to be different to anything we’ve seen before. My theory is that it’s one that’s going to take several episodes to unfold. That it will start mid-series and be held in check until Christmas (for some reason or other). I’m increasingly convinced that it is a/the next Doctor within the vault.13 May 2017 at 20:16 #57404IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant
Hmmmm. River’s diary in the teaser…13 May 2017 at 20:54 #5740714 May 2017 at 13:22 #57452
@morpho and others interested, here’s a Radio Times article relating some theories about what will happen to the Doctor post-“Oxygen”.14 May 2017 at 16:03 #57458
Actually, thinking about the blindness issue: Why doesn’t the Doctor just get back in the TARDIS and look up intergalactic hospitals? Because the TARDIS takes him where he needs to go, and he needs to see, it will get him to a hospital that can fix his eyes and back again before there’s any (more) trouble with the Vault!
Also, Elixir of Life might cure his blindness — why not stop off at Karn? I imagine he could cash in his debts regarding that whole “stopping the Time War” thing.14 May 2017 at 16:13 #57460Anonymous @
@pedant — I’d love this to mean a synching up. Capaldi and Kingston were a great pairing. Husbands did very much seem like a goodbye, but then so did Name.14 May 2017 at 22:40 #57482Devilishrobby @devilishrobby
@missrori there’s one slight problem with the sisterhood of Karn assisting the doctor regaining his sight, I think he may have made himself persona non gratis after he events of Hell Bent and Heaven Sent and the elixir of life I think will only work to control what direction a regeneration will take as it did to create the war doctor.
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