Knock Knock

Home Forums Episodes The Twelfth Doctor Knock Knock

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  • #57145
    Avatar of CraigCraig @craig
    Emperor

    Doctor Who Knock Knock

    This is another strong and very enjoyable episode, possibly the best so far. Once again it has a more leisurely pace and easily feels like old-style BG Who. Moffat is definitely continuing to show, this series, that under his run he can do BG Who just as easily as AG Nu-Who. Hopefully the old fanboys will be happy.

    I think we’ve probably all been here (except for you young-uns out there), looking for somewhere to rent and visiting dodgy property after dodgy property. A sinister landlord eventually shows Bill and her friends the perfect houseshare but they have no idea what lies ahead.

    David Suchet, as the creepy landlord, is brilliant (as we should’ve expected). Written by Mike Bartlett, a playwright who also won acclaim for Doctor Foster on TV a year or so ago, this is much more like one of those tense horror movies that plays on the fear of the dark. Rather than employing jump-scares it just gets creepier and creepier.

    #57165
    Avatar of BluesqueakpipBluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Oh, yes, Bill’s Mum.

    Bill's Mum

    Remind you of anyone?

    #57166
    Avatar of PhaseShiftPhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    I don’t really know Mike Bartlett, as Doctor Foster passed me by. That was a nice little self-contained house of horror story though, and the general feel of it, with the rumbling thunder and lightning in the background, was just right.

    Again, there were a couple of notes in Capaldi’s performance that I think I want to rewatch. I don’t know if anyone missed it, but the BBC are releasing a version of this story with a soundtrack designed to provide a 3D experience if you use headphones on i-player. I have no idea how or if this will be available outside the UK, but I think I’ll try to do my rewatch using that version. There is an article about it with a couple of comparison clips here.

    My single watch of Thin Ice didn’t throw any immediate Bowie references at me, but the storage box for the 1977 residents in this had a seven inch single of ‘Heroes’ inside it. Result!

    Do we think there are any other candidates for being in the vault other than Missy with that dialogue at the end?

    #57167
    Avatar of wolfweedwolfweed @wolfweed

    Always read the small print! Did nobody scrutinise that contract? I’d love to see the actual wording.

    Regeneration is mentioned in an ominous stylee.

    Grandfather. Maybe he really is. Dr Who Mag this month reveals that Harry Sullivan is Harry’s grandfather (not the one with a boyfriend) but that this nugget was kept out of the televised episode so’s not to confuse those viewers so casual they haven’t been watching since 1975.

    Yeah, that’s right – Scotland only has landlines… (?!)

    Some mention of a Vocbot… Bill has a teddy bear & likes Little Mix. Pearl Mackie disagreed greatly with the Little Mix bit but lost the battle…

    The secret lift recalls ‘Invasion of the Dinosaurs’.

    I recently had a holiday in Oban at a hotel where all the floorboards creaked like crazy – now I know…

    Wooden Eliza reminds me of commentator/journo Carole Malone…

    malone

    Nearly everybody dies… & then they all live again…..

    So where do they all sleep/live afterwards? Hopefully the Doctor helped keep them off the streets & out of the rain for the duration?!

    Really optimistic that’s The Terrible Zodin playing that piano…

     

    click show  on binaural…

    fact file

     

    #57169
    Avatar of chickenellychickenelly @chickenelly

    I enjoyed that, the main reference I got from it was from the book ‘Slade House’ in which people disappear every 20 years for similar-ish type reasons.  Curiously, when I read the book I did think it would make a good Doctor Who episode.

    I’ve seen a few Mike Bartlett things @PhaseShift, but this was completely different.  Not sure how effective the new aural soundtrack will be.  Radio 4 tried this a couple of years ago for their Hallowee/Horror night.  The Stone Tape & The Ring were supposed to have enhanced sound qualities, but it didn’t sound that different to my old ears.

     

     

    #57171
    Avatar of MiapatrickMiapatrick @miapatrick

    I lived the brief exchange in iambic pentameter.

    I’m scared/ don’t be/ why not/ it doesn’t help.

    #57172
    Avatar of wolfweedwolfweed @wolfweed

    Mike Bartlett mentions Puddle Lane & The Pied Piper of Hamelin…

    #57175
    Avatar of MudlarkMudlark @mudlark

    After this I feel that I will need to inspect the woodlice in my garden very carefully, to see if any of them have glowing tips to their antennae.  Perhaps I should be reassured by the fact that other inhabitants of the garden include woodlouse spiders (Dysdera Crocata) so named because they specialise in eating woodlice, but the spiders look fairly alien themselves, with chestnut red head, thorax and legs and relatively large,silvery grey abdomen.

    There wasn’t anything very complicated about this episode, but in the tradition of gothic, creepy old house tales it was very effectively done at all levels and with, once again, plenty of detail to savour; and David Suchet was wonderful as the landlord, both sinister and in the end pitiable once we understood the back story.  A couple of his lines in particular struck me as being clearly charged with resonance for the Doctor, and Capaldi conveyed a reaction to their significance with a minimal freezing and shift of expression.

    ‘It’s a heart-breaking experience to leave one’s charge behind, all alone in the big wide world’  and

    ‘If you could save the one who brought you into the world, wouldn’t you?!’

    If it is Missy in the vault, it could be said that the Doctor is keeping her safe in there from the many forces that are no doubt out to get her, and at the same time keeping the world safe from her.

     

     

    #57181

    I can’t help feeling there is a honking case of “LOOK OVER THERE! LOOK OVER THERE!” going with the vault. What we learned was that he seems to have no fear of opening up and going in.

    And again a villain which is not acting from malice. In this case from a child’s idea of love.

     

    #57182
    Avatar of FrobisherFrobisher @frobisher

    @Phaseshift

    I thought that for Thin Ice it might be Scary Monsters… And Super Creeps. It did have a scary “monster”, and a guy who was truly super at being a creep. Next week: an early guess for Space Oddity from me.

    Loved this week’s episode. Suchet was brilliant, and the twist was unexpected. There is definitely a theme of release going on, imo.

    #57185
    Avatar of thane15thane15 @thane15

    @phaseshift

    The audio worked extremely well -at one point, I turned my head for a second, heard a tumble behind and to my right and yelled “oh shit” . Later, with the 5 speakers and woofers it was even more effective.

    As for the story, I’m just not sure.

    I was underwhelmed. Shouldn’t be, but was. Need a 3rd watch with Thane.

    @mudlark good point -multiple references to the Doctor and one’s ‘charges’

    Puro

    #57186
    Avatar of winstonwinston @winston

    I liked this spooky episode and the cast were all great. Suchet was very good at being creepy, wierd and then pitiful. Bill is getting more likable every time I see her and I think she is one of my favourite companions. I liked the everybody lives moment until I remembered the other lost people…..I guess it was too late for them or I missed something, which is entirely possible. Where did those lice go? I agree with @mudlark about paying attention to the little critters when I see them in my garden.   We call them sow-bugs and they do like to eat wet and rotten wood.

    #57188
    Avatar of blenkinsopthebraveblenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    David Suchet, was, as usual, brilliant. The story….well, at the moment I am leaning towards Puro’s response. Maybe that will change on a second viewing. The dominant theme seemed to be about parent/child relations. Not just with the Landlord and his daughter/mother but the dynamic of the Doctor and Bill as well. It was if he was acting all parental by refusing to leave Bill in the house, when she is trying to make it clear to him that this is the part of her life where she is independent. The reminder of her mother in the photo. The way she pretends to her friends that the Doctor is her grandfather. In other words, lots of parent/child references.

    To what end? Not sure. Linked to the occupant of the vault? Still not sure.

    #57189
    Avatar of thane15thane15 @thane15

    Liked the Connection to ‘Fear Itself’ from Buffy and the idea of “being scared? Doesn’t help” from the Doctor.

    Also the House shutting itself up and locking in its tenants…based on a contract….

    Niice.

    #57190
    Avatar of thane15thane15 @thane15

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    Hmm, yes. I was fiddling around with Fur Elise and noticed that it’s a Rondo not a bagatelle in the Form of A-B-A-C-A which is like the episode itself. The ‘A’ being the friends/ moving and returning and finally surviving, ‘B’ is the Doctor and ‘C’ the complication and resolution brought about by ‘B’.

    One way of looking at it.

    But not thrilled when I compare it to Fear Itself -jam packed. This was lighter. Maybe a good thing? Not sure yet.

    Puro.

    #57193
    Avatar of thane15thane15 @thane15

    so from the other thread (ahem) as Fur Elise isn’t definitive at this point -various confusing tales about this particular rendition, Mum’s thinking “Beethoven’s in the vault!” \

    Doubtful, but fun.

    And the Bach? Connected to Sherlock-nice touch.

    There’s some cross-over here with the Sherlockian Syndrome: when people see connections where there are none. But here, definitely.

    #57194
    Avatar of MissyMissy @missy

    Obviously I have’t seen this yet, but I wanted to tick the box so I can see how many members participate. I have tried without making a comment, but it didn’t work.

    Missy

    #57196
    Avatar of CountScarlioniCountScarlioni @countscarlioni

    Some initial thoughts on a first viewing…

    Have we had two examples this series of a variation of a base under attack? In Smile and Knock, Knock it was the base that did the attacking.

    David Suchet would have made a marvellous Master!

    Bill called the Doctor “grandad.” The Doctor insisted on “grandfather.” I think @thane15 and @blenkinsopthebrave (and maybe others too well upthread in the comments on an earlier episode) pressed the importance of Susan and the photo of her on the Doctor’s desk and the Doctor’s promise to return. Could be in play!

    Once the Doctor worked out the cockroaches/creatures responded to sound, I, for once, wanted to shout at the Doctor “C’mon pudding brain, get out the Sonic!!”

    Bill has started to discover that keeping the Doctor in one part of her life is not so simple. And as Bill, presumably, has lost all the photos of her Mum in the crumbling house, the Doctor will have to print-off some more.

    That all Bill’s housemates come out of the woodwork at the end?? I thought that was a bit feeble.

    @pedant “I can’t help feeling there is a honking case of “LOOK OVER THERE! LOOK OVER THERE!” going with the vault.”  A big amen to that.

    I’ve quite enjoyed the fact that the `scale’ of all the stories this series so far has been quite small.  Unless I’ve missed it, there’s not been one threat yet to unravel the entire structure of space and time. I expect we are going to ramp up to that.

     

     

    #57200
    Avatar of thane15thane15 @thane15

    @countscarlioni true -I did mention ‘grandfather’ last week, then, thinking this was not the avuncular ‘doctor’ (of old, or perhaps not ever!), changed my mind. But it does work, rather. :)

    Puro

     

    #57201
    Avatar of geoffersgeoffers @geoffers

    @bluesqueakpip

    Remind you of anyone?

    looks similar to clara, in this pic. and could be a daughter of clara and danny… if danny had lived? (edit: looks very similar to orson, actually? hmmm)

    who does she remind you of?

    @countscarlioni

    That all Bill’s housemates come out of the woodwork at the end?? I thought that was a bit feeble.

    i thought so, too, at first, but if bill lost all her friends like that, she may not have wanted to continue on with traveling with the doctor. she was already a bit leery of his “can’t save everyone” attitude last week…

    as for how did they survive? perhaps being absorbed into the wood is just the first stage, and victims are held for a short while, before the inevitable “digestion?”

    #57202
    Avatar of geoffersgeoffers @geoffers

    as to the vault mystery…

    it’s been gently hinted at that there’s something/someone dangerous in there, and i’m now guessing the master (in whatever form*).

    i mean, what do you keep locked away, anyway? a treasure, a weapon, a prisoner… a madman/madwoman? (or all of the above?)

    i still think it could be a future regeneration of the doctor, per my earlier thought that maybe he wanted to put something of himself into cal, to be with river, again… for forever, or for however long that “life” might last. or, he cold have his valeyard form in there? (which would be a close approximation/near copy of the master, anyway?)

    it could even be his granddaughter, susan, hidden away for some reason. the parallel to this episode would be obvious. the landlord kept his “daughter” alive, and “safely” hidden away, for many years… but i don’t think it’s this. it could be river (from some point in her timestream), or even clara… but i don’t think it’s either of them, either, for the same reason as susan, because the doctor doesn’t strike me as the type to hold a loved one against their will. he might send them away (as he did clara, and rose, too, if i recall correctly), but he would only confine a threat…

    someone on a different thread (apologies that i can’t find it, atm) brought up the brilliant idea that it could be the creature from ‘midnight.’ allow me to further that bonkers theory, and conjecture that perhaps the midnight creature was what was left of the master, after his fight with rassilon in ‘the end of time,’ and that the doctor only realized this after that “creature’s” near escape! and he later trapped it, placed it in the (very time lord-ish) vault, and is trying to save it (as he’s often tried to rehabilitate his friend, the master). or just trying to keep it contained? (how “it” would get back its old simm form later on is a bit of a sticking point in this theory, but he came back from some dna in a ring, too, so i can roll with that easily enough!!)

    *but the biggest hint that i got that it’s the master (or some other threat) was when, at the end, he mentions that the story he has to share is one of young people being eaten, and the piano-playing goes from the brooding classical tune to the merrier (more sinister?) “pop goes the weasel.”

    #57203
    Avatar of geoffersgeoffers @geoffers

    found it, credit to @fivefaces for the ‘midnight’ theory, over in the ‘thin ice’ thread…

    #57204
    Avatar of thane15thane15 @thane15

    @geoffers

    The reference to ‘one’s charges’ could also be a hint at the vault and that contained within.

    The Doctor tends to look at a lot of things  in his ‘charge.’ I’ve often thought that he (and this was said on the first thread I believe) promised Susan he would be back -so did he hijack Doctor 1?

    I wonder about the confusion of these regens? If he’s Doctor 13 -he’s therefore a Mark 2 or on a second set of regens which is fairly rare. So, the Mark 1 versions might be up for some hijinks/hijack without mucking about with the timey whimey-ness  of the Mark 2/second set of regens?

    I like your theory -about the Master ! I’m not sure Fur Elise is brooding.  Maybe!  It certainly was when hordes of youngsters tried to play it :) I wanted to stick a fork in my eye.

    @nick the thing with ‘how’ -in this case, Moffat, lures me into musical studies. We learned the ‘how’ in conducting/composing but the audience needed the ‘what’ -they wanted the best ‘what’ possible- the end result with minor interpretations inferring with or adding to their particular ‘understanding’ of a work. I agree that Moffat’s not always interested in the ‘how’ -to me, the ‘how’ is often exposition -see Twilight (complete with narration) which was almost exclusively ‘how’ as opposed to ‘why’ or ‘what’.

    I think the ‘how’ might become, in a 42 minute episode, a drag on the story, imo. Lots of ‘handwaving’ and timey whimey is probably good much of the time. Although much of the timey whimey stuff was acquitted very well in Series 5 and 6.

    As for Aknaton I saw it as a strong story idea -not the worst by any means. Here we learnt the true heart of the Doctor; saw how Clara would behave in similar fashion: her devotion to the young children, her protection of  them, her loyalty to the Doctor  and the Doctor’s signalling all that he “does know and all the secrets he must not tell.”

    It was Doctor Angst and I think, quite successful as a hook. Pushed along with a stonking good choon too.

    Kindest,

    Puro

    #57205
    Avatar of BluesqueakpipBluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @Geoffers

    That photo of Bill’s mum reminds me very much of Clara; it looks like a face merge between Jenna Coleman and a model. I’m pretty sure we’re looking at a production joke, though.

    But what if one of the Claricles was black? The Claricles we know of were all utterly identical to Jenna Coleman (for obvious reasons), but did they have to be? Because Bill’s mum fits the Claricle/Clara pattern of dying young… :-)

    #57206
    Avatar of thane15thane15 @thane15

    ah bummer, lost a whole post on edit!

    Ah well: Fur Elise, not brooding, but was with hordes of youngsters playing….stick a fork in my eye. I therefore get your point

    @geoffers Yes, thought it could be Dr 1 I the vault: Mark 1 regens not affected by Mark 2 regens such as Dr 13 -therefore avoid the timey whimey ness of the problem of two or more in the one place.

    He generally sees most things as ‘his charges’ (ref: Knock Knock) so…yes could be the Master. Who he might wish to protect -despite Missy wanting the Doctor to kill Clara (his pet).

    @nick. In music the audience frequently wants the ‘what’ not the ‘how’. As  musicians we want the how, but generally it’s up to the audience to either work that out or simply enjoy the ‘what’ as part of the organic performance with interpretations (slight or otherwise) magnifying their enjoyment.

    @bluesqueakpip I sort of see it :)  But I’m wondering if  i’m looking too hard! (squeeze one eye shut and lose focus and THEN I might see it). True, one could be black. Hadn’t thought of that. Stupid of me, actually.

    Cross fingers….Puro…..>

    #57207
    Avatar of Anonymous @

    I’m in agreement with @craig: this was the strongest episode of the season so far for me. Nicely paced, classic feel, yet with some strong points of comparison to more recent episodes such as Hide and Listen, and eschewing the classic black & white, good versus evil paradigm in favour of Moffat’s brand of contextualisation.

    Sachet was the big sell here, for once the reason why multiple people in a big fancy house are winding up dead/wood. Im not sure he sold the regression to childhood in a serious way but kudos to an actor with his reputation for giving it a go.

    I think it was the right move for all of the students to be saved. I imagine children would have found both the bugs and people being merged into the wood a bit too sleep-depriving if the Doctor hadn’t made everything okay.

    My feeling about this season so far is that everything is solid but nothing is knockout yet. Even in the much-maligned season 8 we’d had Listen by now. There’s no similar water-cooler draw so far this season for me.

    The vault is interesting, but it’s only a tease at present. I hope there’s something bigger being built up rather than just some season 1-ish solid-if-ordinary standalone episodes interlinked with a trailer for the finale.

    #57208
    Avatar of Anonymous @

    P.S. I’ve been listening to Elgar’s cello concerto (dunno Pre, natch) on vinyl a lot over the last fortnight so guess who got a little freaked out last night. At least I think that was the record that was playing: it was difficult to hear over the sound of me freaking out.

    #57209
    Avatar of WhishtWhisht @whisht

    I enjoyed this one – some quick thoughts as it was last night I saw it and would need a re-watch for anything insightful!

    I now listen to Doctor Who episodes through headphones due to my new ohh-they’re-so-thin-nowadays TV being utter rubbish in terms of sound. Why don’t they just admit it and sell the darned things with separate soundbars!?!?
    Anyway, I immediately got the stereo and was surprised as I’ve never heard stereo through my headphones via the TV before – I’d actually thought maybe I never could.
    It was great and really added to the creaking etc.

    Also yet another beautifully realised production – the sets look awesome.

    Not sure if its a ‘thing’ but this is the second time I’ve heard the Doctor talking about “magic” in same breath as science-y explanations.

    Also – maybe not a ‘thing’ – but is there a theme of humans exploiting aliens (or robots) for their own ends? The relationships are parasitic(?) until the Doctor makes them symbiotic(?)*

    Mild squee last night when I saw the Bowie single @Phaseshift !

    I actually thought as the episode began that Bill was going in ‘undercover’ with the Doctor’s full knowledge and backing, until it played out differently. I’d think Bill smarter than signing something that was ‘too good to be true’ (though I’ve also had my share of wandering around terrible houseshares and in fact living in at least one!).
    But I did like the fact that Bill investigated on her own.
    Obviously nods towards First Doctor and Susan again (leaving one’s charge behind…).

    * I’ve probably got that all wrong.

    #57210
    Avatar of RedlemonsRedlemons @redlemons

    Before I read everyone’s comments I would like to post my opinion.  Except for the last few moments of this episode I was so disappointed. 6 twenty somethings go into a “haunted house” a bunch of bugs make them part of the house. Really? The Doctor never questioned how they got in the garden, or what happened to them once the house was destroyed.  Bill who I now adore was dress like a 12 year old boy from the 60’s.

    Love the vault. ”  You brought in a piano?”

    #57211
    Avatar of MirimeMirime @mirime

    as for how did they survive? perhaps being absorbed into the wood is just the first stage, and victims are held for a short while, before the inevitable “digestion?

    @geoffers

    I initially rolled my eyes at the most recent lot being brought back, but I recently read a book called ‘Uprooted’ by Naomi Novik which had people being absorbed by trees, and they could be saved if you got them out quickly enough.

    Didn’t the landlord say something to the Doctor along the lines of ‘you’re old, you have less energy so you won’t last long’, the implication being it wasn’t an instant death.

    #57212
    Avatar of MissRoriMissRori @missrori

    I liked this episode, particularly the strong reveals in the climax.  “Thin Ice” is still my favorite so far, but this built to something (and then tore it down to the foundations!).

    There are definitely threads coming together.  There’s the Doctor’s deepening relationship with his mock-granddaughter…yet another menace that isn’t malicious, as @pedant notes…promises/oaths/arrangements that are better off broken in the end…how does it all relate to Who’s In the Vault, and the Doctor’s relationship with it?  And yes, it is a big deal to know that the Doctor does not seem to fear it, and even treats it with the sympathy for the devil (give or take a Rassilon) that is a hallmark of Twelve’s tenure.

    Also, loved his wonderful thoughtlessness with Bill and her friends in the wrap-up.  “Back to the estate agent!”  That’s our Twelfth Doctor!  😀

    #57213
    Avatar of MudlarkMudlark @mudlark

    @Whisht

    Obviously nods towards First Doctor and Susan again (leaving one’s charge behind…).

    And not just Susan, if you think of all the others who have travelled with him and whom he has left behind, whether freely or reluctantly or unwillingly, to continue on their own way without him.  Maybe I am reading too much into the Doctor’s subdued reaction to the lines I quoted in my post yesterday evening, but I got the impression that they struck home.

    Maybe it is no more than a nod to the fans, but I do get the feeling that there is a consistent theme developing here coupled with the idea highlighted in the second line which I quoted: the notion of protecting someone at any cost, even if it meant in effect imprisoning them. Which leads us back to the vault.  It has seemed to me all along that the Doctor is at least as concerned about a threat from outside to whoever is in there as he is to any threat the occupant may pose to the world outside – if, indeed the latter is a concern at all.  In The Pilot, when the smart fuel/Heather creature invaded the basement his first thought was that it might be a threat to the vault, and was relieved when he realised that it was only interested in Bill.

    I doubt very much that the occupant is the Doctor’s mother, though. If she was the woman who covered her face in The End of Time, she perished in the fall of Gallifrey in one timeline, and was saved with the rest of the population in the other, but why would she need to be protected by shutting her up in a vault?  The same applies to Susan so I would be equally surprised if it is her (sorry to disagree, @CountScarlioni ). Given the pointers in this episode, I get the sense that we are being directed – or misdirected – to conclude that it is Missy, but it seems a bit obvious for Moffat and if that does turn out to be the solution, I hope that it comes with a really clever twist, or I shall feel a trifle let down.

    Whatever he, she or it is, Nardole appears to disapprove of the Doctor fraternising :-)

     

    #57214
    Avatar of MissRoriMissRori @missrori

    @mudlark  Good points about the relationship between the Doctor and the occupant of the vault.  I latch on to the idea that, as he sees it, they’re both prisoners.  I think the nature of the oath, who it was made to, etc. will reveal much about what’s going on.

    As far as misdirection goes, well, look at what happened with the mystery of the Hybrid last year!  😉

    #57215
    Avatar of RedlemonsRedlemons @redlemons

    Ok I watched it a second time and I will revise my opinion a bit.  The problem for me is I keep waiting for alien that is mean and evil. These wood lice were neither, helping her to live.  But I have to say I enjoyed it more the second time around. I did love David Suchet. His creepy popping up and disappearing was wonderful.  The doctor being annoyed at Bill for calling him granddad was just perfect. Love that Bill was the one to figure out that the landlord was the son and not the father. Still love the ending the best.  Hum… We are both stuck here. What does that mean? Playing Pop the weasel when whoever is in the vault found out the kids were eaten…. Perfect.

    #57216
    Avatar of MudlarkMudlark @mudlark

    @Mirime

    Didn’t the landlord say something to the Doctor along the lines of ‘you’re old, you have less energy so you won’t last long’, the implication being it wasn’t an instant death.

    Yes. The implication was that the life-energy of the people taken into the woodwork was absorbed very slowly; hence it was necessary to find a new set of tenants only once every twenty years.

    @Redlemons

    a bunch of bugs make them part of the house. Really?

    It is best not to think too much about the mechanics of how aliens do whatever it is they do in the Whoniverse.

    For what the observation is worth, the bugs in question were alien woodlice and, and were in fact modelled on terrestrial woodlice, aka pillbugs because they can roll themselves into a tight ball, but larger in size than the common species, and with glowing antennae to indicate their alien origin. Terrestrial woodlice live on and in decaying wood, so why not alien woodlice that can live in the woodwork of a house?  As a bonus, because they are alien, they can absorb and channel the life energy of human beings to sustain another human being whom they have transformed into a dryad.  If you accept the premise of alien woodlice, then it doesn’t require a great deal more effort to suspend disbelief as regards their alien powers.

    #57217
    Avatar of blenkinsopthebraveblenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Still not had my morning coffee, so these thoughts might change post-caffeine, but how did a six-year old survive on his own, while caring for his mother? Oh, probably not supposed to ask that.

    The vault. In a way, the sound of the piano playing coming from inside the vault (particularly the fact that music, rather a voice, forms the sole mode of communication) reminded me of Eurus and her violin in Sherlock.

    #57218

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    Much the same way that Kitty and co (and Nancy and co, from The Empty Child) did?

    #57219
    Avatar of blenkinsopthebraveblenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @pedant
    True, but they were still children when we saw them. They had not grown into, what appeared to be, an educated and cultured 76 year old. But it is no big deal, as one gets swept along by the story.

    More on the vault. The fact that I thought of Eurus perhaps implies the Master, but in a way that seems too simple for Moffat. When the reveal comes it is going to be something nobody has thought of. Moffat is a master at pulling off that trick. So…perhaps caffeine will help.

    #57220
    Avatar of blenkinsopthebraveblenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Mrs Blenkinsop’s morning reflection on the episode: “The two things you don’t want in your house–borers or boarders.”

    #57221
    Avatar of wolfweedwolfweed @wolfweed

    Bloody hipsters…

    #57224
    Avatar of RorySmithRorySmith @rorysmith

    My my what an episode. I was disappointed that we didn’t get the vashta narada but it works.

    My Brother-in-law and I both subscribe to the theory that thr Doctor is in the vault. We also think that the Master has been using some almost people plastic to wear a Doctor suit since his physical structure was so unstable. Flashy skeleton to come? Missy was always so confident since her introduction so it is safe to say that she knew everything was coming from her last form. We may see the Doctor regenerating but a with brief flashes of Jon into Missy.

    If Moffat truly wanted to go out in style then he would definitely put Eururos in the vault if not Morriarty. We deserve a better ending there too man.

    #57226
    Avatar of BluesqueakpipBluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @Blenkinsopthebrave and @pedant

    Don’t forget that this was the Doctor and Bill’s imaginative reconstruction. It’s entirely possible there was a (now deceased) Junior Parent to take care of the six year old and Wooden Mama, and then the boy took over when he was older.

    #57227
    Avatar of geoffersgeoffers @geoffers

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    how did a six-year old survive on his own, while caring for his mother? Oh, probably not supposed to ask that.

    i was wondering that, too. perhaps they were already living off an inheritance, and he’s really, really, really frugal in spending that money? i wondered, as well, why he wouldn’t know the current prime minister, when he clearly leaves the house (at least) every 20 years. he’d also have to leave for brief forays into the world, for food for himself, if nothing else, so picking up clues here and there about modern life wouldn’t be too hard…

    another “not supposed to ask” question: how did mere humans put those enormous chains on that giant creature at the bottom of the thames?

    #57228
    Avatar of geoffersgeoffers @geoffers

    @thane15

    Fur Elise, not brooding, but was with hordes of youngsters playing….stick a fork in my eye. I therefore get your point

    lol, you have my deepest sympathy for having had to endure that!

    but i wasn’t specific enough in my post, the nature of the piece isn’t brooding, it’s being played by someone* who’s in a brooding mood, a bit sulky, actually… and then it’s “pop goes the weasel” once the person’s* interest is piqued by the prospect of young people being eaten… :)

    * assumptions, of course. this is ‘doctor who,’ after all. it could be a king made of algae!

    #57229
    Avatar of geoffersgeoffers @geoffers

    oooh, i just had an interesting thought. perhaps bill is in the vault, and the doctor’s keeping her there against her will, or for her protection (from missy?), for some yet-to-be-explained reason?! we just haven’t seen her play the piano, or learned that her stepmum had her take lessons… yet.

    😀

     

    or, bill’s mum?!

    #57230
    Avatar of nerysnerys @nerys

    @geoffers another “not supposed to ask” question: how did mere humans put those enormous chains on that giant creature at the bottom of the thames?

    I wondered the same thing. Then I decided, “Think pyramids!”

    Loved this episode. For me, it had the right level of creepiness, with a poignant ending between mother and son. I’m glad @mirime reminded us of that comment the landlord made to the Doctor about being old, so he’d have less energy and wouldn’t last long. That gives a lot more credence to Bill’s roommates surviving their experience.

    David Suchet was remarkable. In that last scene, his character dissolved from an old man into a little boy, right before our eyes. No special effects needed; it was all acting, all utterly convincing. Bravo!

    Bill is quickly moving to the top of my list of favorite companions. And her interactions with the Doctor were quite fun to watch. And we get a few more clues in that pesky mystery of who’s in the vault. A piano player, no less!

    #57231
    Avatar of KharisKharis @kharis

    Episode seemed a little long to me, which usually means I was bored somehow.  Not into this one, more “Meh” than actual dislike.  Was interested in the clues about the vault.  The Master seems to be the obvious answer, but I’m suspicious when it’s aiming to be so obvious.  Clara clearly needed to be contained, but so did Me, Ashildr.

    #57232

    @kharis

    There was also some filming reported by @SirClockFace (here, POSSIBLE (BUT MAYBE NOT) SPOILER) that is still to be accounted for.

    #57233
    Avatar of KharisKharis @kharis

    @pedant I will go look for that. Thanks. (:

    #57234
    Avatar of thane15thane15 @thane15

    @morpho

    I believe it was Bach’s violin sonata, No. 1 in g minor .

    @geoffers

    No, I totally got what you meant! In fact, it was rather sulky and teasing. The typical annoying opening is like a ‘stutter’ for children who often play the first bar repeatedly! In fact, in this case that’s what happened -I think. Have to check again.

    So, one way of trying to work out who’s in the darn vault is to work on the Fur Elise theme? @arbutus?

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