[Cybercat @replies]

Stumbled on this about Edgar Allen Poe’s poem ‘The Raven’

Our narrator’s sorrow for his lost, perfect maiden Lenore is the driving force behind his conversation with the Raven. In turn, the Raven, even through his limited vocabulary, forces the narrator to face the reality that Lenore will return ‘nevermore,’ a fact that the narrator does not want to acknowledge. As a result, by the poem’s conclusion the Raven has the eyes ‘of a demon’s’ and its shadow hangs over the narrator’s soul. For the poem’s speaker, the Raven has moved beyond mournful, never-ending remembrance to an embodiment of evil.

With Face The Raven coming up this seems somewhat apt..

Poe himself meant the Raven to symbolize ‘mournful, never-ending remembrance.’

 

[Cybercat @replies]

Just found this. Exciting. Looks like we will get the jigsaw pieces..

No spoilers. Just a promo re Clara/who is she sort of thing.

Awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ozqqs7NcvDE

Apologies if should be in another thread?

[Cybercat @replies]

@everyone

Just a quick pop by for now. Thoroughly enjoying reading all the thoughts so far.

Really enjoyed how this was pulled together.

Noted a few things..

How oddly distant Clara seemed to be when Bonnie/Doctor/Kate were resolving the Osgood box scenario. Clara showed little emotion and seemed a little smug or something like that? Not sure, need to re watch.

It felt like the Clara that went back in the Tardis wasn’t Clara.

But then Clara really has been quite emotionless throughout the series. Loosing her emotions becoming more like a Dalek?

Loads of other thoughts but time ticks..

 

edot – or more like the doctor?

[Cybercat @replies]

@pedant @geoffers

Well if as geoffers pointed out Osgood said ‘I would give all the lives I had’ then it seems it must be part of the evolution of the zygons. Unless of course the Osgood (zygon?) is referring to other humans copied lives she has duplicated?

Osgood must be a zygon then.. Aargh.

Their must be a few Osgoods. The original has been safe guarded by Unit a while ago.. As part of the peace deal Osgood is key.

[Cybercat @replies]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>@pedant</p>
Is it not possible to have several zygon/human versions of a human? Given they can do one version what stops another zycon replicating the same human?

As I said struggling with what zygon can and can’t do.. Apologies!

[Cybercat @replies]

@pedant

oooh woah.. Ha ha. Maybe!

[Cybercat @replies]

Also to add the whole episode felt odd. Initially I didn’t enjoy it. Felt it was messy.

But perhaps now it was odd because it was meant to be out of character with so much zygon influence.

I’m going to watch it again with this in mind.

[Cybercat @replies]

Maybe completely way off here..

That’s not the original Clara in the egg thing. They are producing replicas human/zygons – experimenting? So they don’t have to use an original?

Guessing I need to watch it again. My thoughts are all of a bit of a mess!

I still feel it is only Osgood (main characters) that is original.

[Cybercat @replies]

Sorry not sure any of that works in the storyline.. But was just thinking ‘nightmare scenario’ is just that..

scenario – a setting/scene which is artificial in a sense..

[Cybercat @replies]

@geoffers

like this, in osgood’s conversation with the doctor aboard the presidential plane: “my sister and i were the living embodiment of the peace we made. i would give all the lives i have to protect it.” i initially thought she said “all the LIES,” as in, i would lie to the ends of the world to keep the peace. but now i keep hearing “lives.” so, if this is normal, human osgood, that makes no sense. she only has one life, like every other normal human. (yes, i have to specify “normal” because… well, because moffat!)

Oh that’s interesting yes. Well spotted. I’m having difficulty following what a zygon can/can’t do..

But maybe with Osgood the original is still alive. It would make absolute sense to keep her alive and use zygon replicates as much as possible. So in this sense there maybe or has been several zygon replicates. Makes no sense to kill off Osgood considering she is so crucial either way to rebel zygons or peace zygons.

Therefore I’m now convinced Osgood who was killed by Missy was a Zygon.

@starla

I think part of the contingency plan by doctor and Unit has been to make sure there are/allow zygon versions of key characters. The reason being Unit would have to consider the different potential ‘fall outs’ of a Zygon rebellion. By implementing a zygon version of doctor etc we can see how potential fallouts my occur..

We haven’t seen presidents/etc because this is a contained breach within zygon population. As someone posted earlier most here are possibly zygons with only Osgood being original.

We we will see the originals save the day.

Nightmare  scenario alerted the doctor that zygon versions were being compromised.

Just thoughts.. I’m not entirely convinced of this myself..

[Cybercat @replies]

@purofilion
I understand that the companions are pivotal to the storylines and appreciate the strength they hold and even to the point you describe as co-leads. I’m not trying to diminish their importance at all. Just that the essence of Doctor Who is the Doctor himself. Every series since the re boot has been fundamentally about the Doctor and his evolution.</p>
@lisa

wow even I missed that earlier up the posts when I suggested Clara/Oswin and the variations we’ve seen might be Ashildr/me!

Well spotted! A red herring or something more significant

Run little boy run.. And remember ME!

Loads of connections with Clara/Oswin and Ashildr/Me…

[Cybercat @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave

@drben

Awesome way to finish!

Its always been about the doctor. Not the companions – as much as they play a fundamental role..  it’s about the doctor and that should never be forgotten.

With the ‘poetry’ as you put it – of the Doctor having to accept his role in the fate of his companions. Leaves room for growth for the Doctor.

Being forced to let go of Clara with Ashildr as the pivotal character in this descision he faces a battle of saving something of his own doing against the battle of accepting the ripples/waves he has alone caused.

Poetic justice?

Bravo.

Whether the Doctor learns from this as does Ashildr? We will see. A companion in the making? A truce, an understanding, a friendship?

[Cybercat @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave

The idea that the Doctor has been trying to figure out something (about Clara?) since he became Capaldi rings true with the first series and aligned with the concept he has been trying to save her from a fate he has known all along ….

Well Ashildr certainly might mean (referring to companions) that she will protect them from the doctor by allowing them to face the inevitable – death – that which she cannot have!!</p>

Makes complete bonker-sense! 🙂

[Cybercat @replies]

@lisa

Ashildr does appear menacing. But I suspect that is born out of resentment she hasn’t been supported by the doctor since the fate he beset her. I don’t think she is concerned about aliens. If anything she most probably considers herself one now too and wants to be part of the gang!

Many many years have passed since she appears at those gates ‘observing’ Clara. Enough time to figure out a plan with maybe a bit of time travel help..

[Cybercat @replies]

@doctordoctorwho

the only thing I felt (but nothing to do with direction really) was that the doctor didn’t explain why he couldn’t take Ashilda with him other than ripples/waves or something terrible.. ?

But he has been taking companions for lifetimes..

Ashilda clearly has something to do with his companions. The doctor owes Ashilda? I think Ashilda is driven now by her desire to get away from Earth. Missy will have manipulated this. What better than to have an allegiance with an immortal over the time trail..

 

[Cybercat @replies]

@django

ha yes..

Ashilda has to be linked to Clara surely. Too many connections cropping up.

But then I was convinced Danny Pink was something more than he was last series.. Still got the Orson Pink to tidy up though?

Id love Matt Smith to pop out of a shower though! 🙂

[Cybercat @replies]

And just to continue with that bonker-ising above. Interestingly the first time we met Clara (Oswin Oswald) in Asylum of The Daleks she has been converted from human into a Dalek and has coped by retreating into a fantasy of her own intact survival. Isn’t that what Ashilda did when we first met her?! Retreated into a fantasy…

Don’t know how this can all fit in with the supposed ‘impossible girl’ sort of resolution we were given..

[Cybercat @replies]

Firstly hi! Been engrossed in all of your bonker-ising. Thoroughly good fun!

@geoffers I’m too amazed at the number of lines and similarities referenced to Clara by Ashildr.

Clara may well be killed off. But who was Clara Oswald? Run little boy run and remember.

Ashildr?

“And how many have you lost? How many Claras?

I can’t remember most of it. That’s the trouble with an infinite life and a normal sized memory.

Make me feel again, then run away? I don’t need your help, Doctor, you need mine. Just this once, you can’t run off like you usually do.”

I think Ashildr has been helped by Missy. To time travel and is able to change her face with tech. So wanting to get out of the boredom of immortality she struck a deal with Missy in return for info. The real Clara is present day but her appearance has been hijacked, travelled in time to practice being ‘Clara the companion’.

The doctor has known for sometime there are inconsistencies with Clara.

There you go thrown in my odd bonker contribution!

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