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  • #64387
    Starla @replies

    Hi all!

    I LOVED it! My friend and I saw it at the cinema and gosh it was vibrant and beautiful on the big screen. Great atmosphere too.

    Jodie is undeniably The Doctor. I am just so excited by the fact that she has zero preoccupation with being female, and is 100% focused on the task at hand – saving people, helping everyone and generally being awesome.

    Yes the monster was a bit ‘meh’, but the focus was really on setting the scene for the new companions, which they did rather well… I felt an emotional connection to them by the end.

    Fave bits included:

    – The Doctor realising her legs aren’t quite as long as they used to be!

    – Making her new sonic in the workshop – loving her getting hectic with the welding gear!

    – Drunk guy throwing salad at Tim Shaw!!!

    – “Tim Shaw” 😂😂😂

    – Whoopsie daisy – we are floating in space, but where’s the TARDIS? Lol

    Loved the whole thing… can’t wait for next week.

    Oh… and I made a personal decision to watch no previews or ads for each week as I want it to be a surprise- old school style. I loved Capaldi, but ruined it for myself by being to invested in previews and bonkerising. I’m just letting the show be a show and enjoy the zany ride!

    #49673
    Starla @replies

    That made me laugh, it made me cry, especially the ending. The looks CapDoc was giving River were just so intense! My word!

    #48792
    Starla @replies

    @tardigrade It’s suggestive to me that Susan could have been the president’s daughter perhaps, rather than the Doctor’s granddaughter.

    Hmm… maybe the Doctor was the president’s father? Or father-in-law? 😉

    #48780
    Starla @replies

    @bendubz11

    I agree. I think it was a nice way to resolve her arc, and didn’t take away from her choice to save Rigsy.

    Interestingly, a few weeks ago, many made note of that glowing light that flashed when the raven flew into Clara’s body. I would now theorize that the light flashed as her body was returned via the extraction chamber, and that these events had always occurred, and had occurred even as we were watching Face the Raven.

    My only criticisms of the finale were the Sisterhood of Karn who seemed superfluous –  not sure how or why yhey were there (I’m sure we can concoct a reason, I don’t think they added to the story)… and the lacklustre use of the cloister wraiths/ that chamber. It was really set up to be something in the promos.

    In fact, I think my main beef this season would have to be with the promo team for DW. Too many spoilers online, facebook etc. They need to cut it right back. People see too much, get excited and develop high expectations based on what is shown – then whatever actually happens is just not good enough (even if it is fantastic).

    #48760
    Starla @replies

    @pedant Also (also) what do we think the odds are of a certain diner turning up somewhere in the vicinity of Coal Hill School in the new spin-off?

    <span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>I was </span><em style=”line-height: 1.5;”>just <span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>thinking the exact same thing then read your post. That would be great ☺</span>

    #48759
    Starla @replies

    @pedant You certainly did! Well done. It worked well with the whole ‘run you clever boy and remember’, but in the end he can never truly remember her, just how to be the Doctor. She has left him that gift.

    I mentioned over in spoilers too that this ‘long way round’ journey for Clara bow opens the possibility that she is Orson Pink’s grandma, provided one can bear children without a heartbeat. 😞

    I really like how the ending actually opened up so many possibilities. Usually the departure of a companion is an ending, and is sad and influences the Doctor’s decisions… but we’ve just had that, and now we have a new scenario where we have room for so much exciting stuff! Maybe more Clara and Ashildr adventures – old school diner tardis style! We have newly banished Rassilon who is probably feeling pretty cranky. The rest of the Time Lords aren’t that happy either. A Doctor who is (supposedly?) free from the pain of losing Clara and is ready to go. Very cool.

    #48748
    Starla @replies

    So so good. Love love love it!

    Wasn’t the President’s wife he stole, it was his daughter… Susan?

    Just dawned on me… Orson Pink problem solved. Clara still time traveling. Potential there?

     

     

    #48680
    Starla @replies

    Now that’s some Grade A bonkerizing! To add to @tardigrade ‘s theory, something as devious as forcing the Doctor into a position where he must suicide billions of times, thereby creating many billions of cloister wraiths – hellbent and angry – in fact, a veritable army of wraiths, could only be concocted by Missy. After all, wasn’t that her motive in season 8, to make an army for the Doctor?

    Meanwhile, I keep leaving Clara out of my theories, as I am really not sure where she will fit in. I would love resolution to the Orson Pink situation , but I can accept if it was a story thread that needed to be let go. I also think there is potential for her to be part of the hybrid reveal, but not sure how yet.

    #48675
    Starla @replies

    @puroandson @tardigrade

    Cuppa soup or cup of soup… 11 suggested when they trapped gallifrey in the statis cube (forgetting terminology, you know what i mean) that it would be like a cuppa soup. Just add water.

    #48674
    Starla @replies

    @tardigrade @puroandson
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>I watch on iview every sunday morning, approx 7am. I have no patience.</p>

    #48667
    Starla @replies

    @puroandson Thanks son of puro! I quite like my theory, even if it is bonkers. I would be ecstatic if it came to pass!

    #48654
    Starla @replies

    @tardigrade Ooh, Missy’s daughter… hmm, I like where you went with that.  I also like your theory that if Ashildr was exposed to the time vortex and untempered schism she could potentially be part TL.

    My ridiculously 100% unlikely #butimthrowingitoutthere theory(laugh if you will, I sure am!!;
    Ashildr, a young girl in relation to time lords, has been chilling on Gallifrey, exposed to timey wimey juju, and has befriended Missy  (maybe a child version at some point??).  Ashildr dies in Hell Bent, and regenerates (or is forcibly regenerated in a machine) – she regenerates into a young boy or baby boy. The young boy/baby is the Doctor. 😮😃😎 The Doctor recognizes this and realises by making viking Ashildr immortal he has essentially created himself (bootstrap paradox), hence why CapDoc seems to recognize Ashildr in Girl who died.  The childDoc is sent back in time to where to Doc should be.  Therefore the hybrid is both me (the Doctor) and Me (Ashildr). Totally ridiculous I know.  😀lol!!

    #48642
    Starla @replies

    @tardigrade  It did occur to me though that Missy was the previous curator of “Heaven”, so might point to her involvement and the Doctor’s experience in the confession dial perhaps being similar to those of her earlier “clients” in the virtual heaven – that’s probably reading too much into it though 🙂.

    I think I like your interpretation of the title Heaven Sent. Missy has been noticeably absent, but I think she is inextricably tied up in this whole scenario.

    @tardigrade Clara: Since when do you care about the Doctor?

    Missy: Since always. Since the Cloister Wars. Since the night he stole the moon and the President’s wife. Since he was a little girl. One of those was a lie. Can you guess which one?

    Cloister wars… interesting in light of the discussion over on Spoilers. I forgot about this.

    Hey, here’s some serious bonkers with a rating of 0.001% likelihood of actually being right. Little girl… okay, Ashildr isn’t exactly little, but she’s a young girl. No idea at all how she could be part time lord (she’s certainly not!), but let’s pretend she somehow was… she is the little girl, she regenerates into a young version of the Doctor.  “The hybrid is me/Me”… both are true!

    #48639
    Starla @replies

    @ichabod For one thing, it operates at full bore, and then releases him alive on Gallifrey — whereas Missy described it as something that would only open after his death.  Of course, that’s Missy talking . . .

    It did open after his death. Many, many deaths….

    #48637
    Starla @replies

    So… uploaded minds, simulated world. Library anyone? There are parallels for sure.

    On an unrelated note, I just recalled that we haven’t found out any more about the ‘minister of war’ ‘war minister’ (I forget the exact title, correct me if I’m wrong) mentioned in Flood. At the time there were suggestions of Ashildr, I doubt there will be resolution this episode. Perhaps it’s a future theme.

    #48623
    Starla @replies

    I assume the time lord figure we see in the previous trailer, whose face flickers in and out of view, is a cloister wraith. Makes sense.  This time lord version of a wraith then fits with @mudlark ‘s view that these wraiths are time lord personalities  (‘souls’ if you will) uploaded to the matrix. It seems less ‘spirit’ like, and more like a file or saved data entry.

    #48571
    Starla @replies

    Thanks!!

    #48561
    Starla @replies

    @puroandson Jetskis are cool!

    #48556
    Starla @replies

    In regards to the sonic sunnies, the Doctor uses them to identify the substance the wall is made from. I assume if he could use them to break the wall he would have. Therefore he couldn’t use them.

    I also believe the wall was designed to be able to be breached, hence it not resetting each time.

     

    #48555
    Starla @replies

    Rewatching. Just from an aesthetic point of view I appreciate the repetition of the circular, cog or dial like patterns throughout the episode. The path surrounding the graveyard (this actually reminded me of the floor of the Tardis), the room with chalk arrows, the fortress itself, the mechanized cogs, the teleportation device, circular turret, all reminiscent of the confession dial.

    This episode is just so well constructed: visually, musically, the script… it is simply spot on!

     

    #48506
    Starla @replies

    @puroandson – Thank you so much for your explanation of these activities! As you mentioned over in Spoilers, the new Aus curriculum unfortunately limits our time greatly, so I might have to do a less involved version – but I’ve got the holidays to collect some objects and sort out what we are going to do, and you’ve certainly got me thinking about how I will go about it.

    I love the idea of burying items that resemble those from various periods in time. The sharpening tool concept is great too, although I’d be wary of some of the children I taught this year bearing sharp objects (mind you I let them use lino tools). Fish tank activity could be really interesting.

    I saw another great idea online, which involves creating stratigraphy sandwiches, using layers of bread, spreads and fillings.  Gotta love a food lesson 😀

    Lots of ideas – Thanks so much!  I appreciate it.

    #48499
    Starla @replies

    @puroandson  Hmm, newbie question.. which forum is ‘the pub’? 😊🍻

    #48497
    Starla @replies

    @Puroandson
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Well, your ‘baby archaeology’ sounds very similar to what I’m planning on doing with my year 7’s first term next year. I do love getting the students actively involved in learning. They are far more engaged that way.  What kind of objects did you bury, and how long for? (Okay, I just usurped this board for my own nefarious lesson planning purposes, muhahaha!)</p>

    #48195
    Starla @replies

    @pedant Ok, fair enough, it was her way of drawing his attention.  I still think it was an odd choice of dress though.

    She could have drawn his attention purely by being in the photograph, without the need for this outfit. I felt there must have been more to her choice, a message perhaps… We know she’s been in cahoots with, or being used by, TL’s to some degree.  Whether she has travelled in time or not, she’s been fed information regarding Clara’s past.

    I am probably reading too much into it, however it’s one of those little things that feels purposeful. Otherwise what’s the point of her being dressed like that? Why go to the effort… unless it’s just to mess with out minds irl / thd Doctor’s mind in thr show. 😊

    #48172
    Starla @replies

    I still wonder why Me was dressed very much like the 80’s/90’s version of Clara’s mother in the selfie Clara took. There’s been no resolution to that yet .

    #48170
    Starla @replies

    @nerys @puroandson

    I think the coat is the same throughout. When we encounter the Doctor it is 7000 years into the future. The clothes and shoes are there because the previous version of himself had left them to dry. Having said that, I’m not sure what the very first Doctor did! Maybe he didn’t twig that he could leave them until a few thousand goes. I am fairly certain that the coats etc are the same. 😊

    #48101
    Starla @replies

    Holy moly! That was really awesome. I cottoned on to the skulls being the Doctor’s when he came across his wet clothes drying by the fireplace, and immediately thought he was stuck in a loop. Great concept, and what an ending to leave us with!
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>@phaseshift & @tommo – I think there was ambiguity at the end there, could mean Me as in Ashildr, not CapDoc. It’s unclear, which I like. ☺</p>

    #47865
    Starla @replies

    @ichabod Oh, I was dearly hoping someone would call my theory pants!  Hehe! 😊

    #47860
    Starla @replies

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>@lewis97 Wow! What a trouserific effort! I googled some pics last night, but as i am on my phone i found it difficult to collate anything. Still not sure of the meaning/relevance but it’s very interesting nonetheless.</p>

    #47829
    Starla @replies

    Quote P.C – “There are some specific trouser things that happen for specific reasons”… 😊

    #47828
    Starla @replies

    @bobbyfat mentioned CapDoc’s hair and clothing potentially being clues to the order of the episodes. Remember how there was talk (please forgive me if this is a spoiler!!) a while ago about the importance of what pants the Doctor is wearing… now, this really is bonkers, but is there some weird correlation between style of pants/clothes/even hair (e.g. first Doc style pants, 2nd Doc… etc) and order of episodes? Counting the Christmas episode there will be 13 after all. 😆

    <span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>Hmmm… mind you, in the two parter Zygons he wears the same pants. Doh!</span>

    This is a really rubbish theory, but i just had to put it out there!!

    #47700
    Starla @replies

    @nerys @drben – re. the quantum shade; I, like yourselves, interpreted that it could only be passed on once, to a willing party. Once done, the ability of the shade giver (in this case Ashildr) to revoke the curse was null and void. Clara’s fate was set.

    #47608
    Starla @replies

    @whisht “…that the lamps make you see what you think you ought to see.”

    Can the lamps make one see a death that they believe they ought to be seeing? I.e. The Doctor expects to see Clara die, therefore he sees her die… she’s facing away from him, he doesn’t see the light as the raven enters her body… okay, it’s late and I’m probably making no sense! Just a thought…

    #47578
    Starla @replies

    I haven’t read all the posts sorry (will do but my little boys are about and need their Mummy). I had a thought re. the regeneration energy Clara absorbed during the dalek ‘upgrade’ or whatever you want to call it in ep 2. Firstly, checking with you lot that she was in the dalek and did potentially absorb it? If so, my theory is that the little yellow glow we see in Face the Raven as the raven enters Clara’s body could possibly be this energy flashing or initiating (or something!). Probably way off track.  Lol.

    #47325
    Starla @replies

    Peter Capaldi and Steven Moffatt were on Triple J in Australia this afternoon. I only caught the tail end, but here’s a link to the interview if anyone is interested.  😆

    ttriple j doctor who interview

    #47084
    Starla @replies

    There were lots of great things to like about this episode.  Lots of small clues, glances and certainly plenty of creepiness.  I was rubbing my eye before,  which now feels sore in the corner, and was quite disturbed… thanks a lot Gatiss!

    (I will say this though… I think Rasmussen might have been better off just embedding the eye dust inducing signal into a cute cat video or something… far less effort involved, and probably likely to attract heaps more views! 😆😉 )

    #46983
    Starla @replies

    @geronimo You’re right! Definitely colour. I just rewatched. 😆 It was better on second viewing. I hadn’t realised the first time that the sandmen can form and unform from the surrounding dust. That (probably obvious!) point makes heaps more sense.  Interesting to yet again see Clara attached to a machine.

    #46979
    Starla @replies

    @geronimo

    I too noticed the Tardis viewpoint when Clara is trying to unlock the door.  I thought maybe it could have just been a ‘dust speck’ p.o.v, but I think maybe it was in colour, so perhaps not then? Need a rewatch.

    #46951
    Starla @replies

    @phaseshift

    Sorry, I must have missed the part where he stated that the signal was embedded at the end, I thought it was embedded throughout the whole video. Hence my confusion as to whether the Doctor and co. just left, now infected with this thing. Which I would find odd.

    So what were the creatures? Were they created from a signal too, and not the “eye gunk” as theorised by the Doctor?  Then they spread via video signal? I’m asking questions because it wasn’t particularly clear, and I do like the ambiguity… I loved the last creepy sequence where you suddenly realise that you’ve just watched the video and have subconsciously seen the signal. .. watch out! However other elements were a bit unclear.

    Ps – I’d advise not reading any facebook comments on this episode. It’s pretty depressing. I quite enjoyed it.

    #46936
    Starla @replies

    They all watched the footage.  Am I right in saying it’s watching the video that infects you? Did they have to have been inside a Morpheus machine to become infected? Is there potential for these sandmen to reappear in future?  I couldn’t tell whether the Doctor had actually stopped the transmission of the video,  or whether at the end there the Morpheus creator is the one who has been shot, but because he’s dust is animate.

    #46789
    Starla @replies

    Firstly, sorry if I came across at all trolly… I don’t really want to nitpick the show to death. I was just ruminating on some other people’s posts and thought I’d share my own views. I am very capable of filling in the blanks storyline wise, and don’t need things spelled out to me.  I assumed the same things you guys did, especially on my first viewing. I just started thinking about it from a ‘would this actually work?’ and does this make some sense p.o.v. <span style=”line-height: 1.5;”> It’s one thing to be subtle and allow viewer imagination to fill in the gaps, but sometimes it’s nice to have some resolution on what I see as significant parts of the plot – e.g. people trapped in zygon pods, the fate of unit and zygon people (after all, 12 wants to save people… I found it odd & out of character that he didn’t say anything about those on board the plane after the explosion), what would have to be mass memory removal for humans in pods, unit, and possibly zygons… </span>

    That’s all i will say on the topic anyway… looking forward to this week’s episode, looks l Iike a good one!

    #46781
    Starla @replies

    What about the people in the pods!? Were they released? If so, were they memory wiped? Seems like this solutiom requires less negotiation between groups, and more ‘let’s sweep this under the rug and pretend it never happened’. 😕

    #46780
    Starla @replies

    I am trying not to think too hard about this whole storyline.  It’s ruining it for me because the more I think about it, the more I see massive problems… and I really loved many many elements of both episodes,  especially Capaldi’s performance in ‘the speech’…  however…

    – I <span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>keep questioning how an uprising/ rebellion such as the one staged by the zygons, seemingly involving a large number of zygons from around the world, could be quashed so instantaneously by Zygella’s phone call to stand down. Wouldn’t there be a whole bunch of young, pissed off zygons who wouldn’t listen and would disobey? Did they memory wipe every zygon involved? I doubt it!</span>

    – Speaking of memory wipes, what about the rest of UNIT?  It would be pretty hilarious with Kate going back to work and everyone’s all like “so how crazy was that zygon s#!t?” and Kate does a Donna and has ‘missed ‘ the whole thing due to Doctor induced memory malfunction…. hmmm.

    <span style=”line-height: 1.5;”> – The rebellion/invasion itself – replicating people’s forms, then dragging humans to underground pods. Ok, fine, now you’ve got slightly different human lives to the ones you had, whoop-di-doo… was there more to the plan?</span>

    <span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>- Why didn’t Bonnie just encourage / convince the other young zygons to just normalize on the streets and cause mass panic, instead of the sneaky normalization of one zygon on video?</span>

    – Truth or consequences being written inside the Osgood boxes. I know some of you have come up with semi-plausible reasons for this, but all ideas lead me to the fact that either the Doctor was somehow complicit in allowing the atrocities that happened in TorC to occur, or he’s tricksy and set up the boxes at some timey wimey point… I don’t know where I was going with that. 😦

    – The lack of recognition of the many deaths. Human and Zygon.

    I really did like these episodes, but as I said, I can’t think too deeply aboutit because some aspects make no sense! Sorry! I love Who, and can forgive these issues of course… I think it was just such a grand concept.

     

    #46580
    Starla @replies

    I wouldn’t say this story was casualty free… we didn’t get resolution on what happened to Jac (sp?) and the soldiers, and as other have mentioned there was the pilot of the plane, potential crew and captured zygon on board that seem to have perished. 😕

    I really liked this episode, however one other part I was unsure about was the part where Bonnie zaps the zygon-human dude in the housing estate and he turns zygon in front of a group of young men… who just stare blankly,  no reaction!  Are they supposed to be zygons? It wasn’t clear. Maybe that was purposeful, disaffected youth exist in our society, regardless of whether they are zygon or human.

    Having said that, I loved most of the episode… definitely noticed the Mire helmet. That was put there for a reason!

    @purofilion @Supernumerary  Unlike you, I can never wait until Sunday night… I watch on abc iview every week, over breaky. Zero patience here. Plus I’m usually putting kids to bed at 7.30 so it’s a terrible time to be watching tv. 😊

    #46326
    Starla @replies

    Info from the bbcamerica/anglophenia site – Dr Funkenstein comes from a 1973 album titled The Clones of Dr Funkenstein.  So, if the Doctor is Dr Funkenstein, who are his clones? I’m sure someone else has already picked up on this. It just makes me think he has a plan, and it involves willing zygons duplicating key players.

    #46252
    Starla @replies

    @Supernumerary

    Even if they’re not a decoy, the problem with this is that it implies that the lives of the (good, sentient, not just monstery) Zygons are unimportant (and cannon fodder) in comparison to the human UNIT soldiers. 

    This thought has crossed my mind too. If the Doctor and Osgood in the plane are ‘good’ zygons, why are their lives any less important than those of ghe Doctor and Osgood? Why can they be used as bait, and potential “cannon fodder”, while the humans etc avoid the danger?

    @lisa . That church scene with the UNIT soldiers bugged me too. Why would they all follow <em style=”line-height: 1.5;”>the Zygon/people impersonators into the church? That was annoying again on this watch

    My husband truly disliked this scene, and he felt it detracted from the episode as a whole. (I didn’t mind it the first time, but like @lisa it bugged me on the second viewing). His reasoning was that he found it incredibly implausible that soldiers belonging to a highly trained military organisation such as UNIT would fall for the zygon’s fairly lame “I’m your mother, don’t kill me” trick. Surely they had been prepped prior to the mission that the zygons would do something like that. Surely UNIT would have verified the actual location of all the soldier’s family members prior to the mission, therefore giving the troops some clarity of mind in the face of such emotive trickery.

    Even just letting one or two of the soldiers enter the church, the rest unsure and retreating,  would have been more plausible? Oh well… not every episode can be perfect I guess 😊

    #46139
    Starla @replies

    @jimthefish  does anyone think that we’re being double-bluffed here and that the Doctor is also a Zygon — a decoy provided by the human-friendly faction — to lure out Bonnie Zygon. It just strikes me that he was rather passive in the whole missile sequence and the ‘try not to kill too many’ was a rather sign-postedly un-Doctor-ish line.

    Now that you mention it, something felt ‘off’ about the Doctor’s behaviour and attitude throughout the episode. It’s hard to explain, but little things such as what @jimthefish mentioned, as well as his excitement about being President of the World (which he’s been unhappy about previously), and the fact that he didn’t take the TARDIS … perhaps because it’s a zygon Doctor on the plane!! A zygon wouldn’t be able to fly the TARDIS.

    All very unlikely – but you never know!!

    #46066
    Starla @replies

    @purofilion If the switch you refer to is Clara becoming the zygon, it happened when she was speaking to the child’s mother. The father zygon zapped her and then assumed her shape, calling itself Bonnie. Before that she was regular Clara. Well, as regular as the impossible girl can be anyway ☺.

    I thought this was a really great episode. Plenty of substance to it, and it really made the zygons more of a threat than they’ve been recently.

    I personally think the Kate Stewart in this episode, or at least the one who travels to New Mexico, is zygon Kate.  We don’t see what happens to her once the police officer changes into a zygon… we assume she’s collapsed or dead, and the zygon has taken her form… but we don’t see that happen. I think she was zygon Kate, working in cahoots with human Kate… maybe… possibly… 😊 anyway, that’s the extent of my theories! Goodnight!

     

    #45734
    Starla @replies

    <span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>@nerys</span>

    <em style=”line-height: 1.5;”> (Clara is still in the tardis…)<em style=”line-height: 1.5;”> The Doctor knows this, but is shielding her from the knowledge.

    Potentially using a lucid dreaming aide, from Dark Water. You know the one that induced the very real dream state where Clara believed she was destroying TARDIS keys?

    #45648
    Starla @replies

    Rewatch – “I take particular note of anyone’s weaknesses”… whoops!!

    Still, the fact that she remembers Clara, and not only that but views her as a possible weakness in the Doctor, makes me think someone  (e.g. Missy) has been in her ear.

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